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Wet Nests in NestboxesDate: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:04:39 -0700 I have a pair of EABL who've built a nest (no eggs yet) in one of the nestboxes. It has been raining very heavily for the last 2 days and more is expected this weekend (hopefully, not the torrents we've been having). I checked the house after work today. Even though I have caulked all the nextboxes along the seam where the roof and back meet, the inside of the house is wet and the nest is wet. The rain has probably been blowing in the door. My nestboxes are easily interchangeable. What I would like to know from the more experienced people out there is: if I change the house and put a dry one back up without any nest, will they just start over the same as if a natural disaster destroyed their nest? I'm going along the line tomorrow and checking the other nests. I have read on this List about carrying dry grass to redo nests but at this point in time there is no dry grass to be found. Is it better to just leave the damp nests (if that turns out to be the case) in the other houses or should I dump the nests to delay the BB (of either species) from egglaying until things dry out? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Regards, Joanne
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:02:39 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. If the female has already finished her nestcup, she'd probably appreciate having a ready-made dry nest if she's ready to lay. Since you have only one nest to replace, you can replicate a nest from some dry grass as a placeholder nest. If you can't find dry grass/straw, put several handfuls in a bucket and get out your hair dryer. After this you could dry the wet nest at home and put it back in the original box in a day or so. If the female is ready to lay eggs, it would be a shame to expect her to have to start a new nest from scratch. Even though I've never had a wet nest (I smear clear silicone caulk over the entire exterior plus inside seams), nests sometimes have to be replaced on my trail and it's best to have some old clean nests saved from each season. Just last week, honeybees took over a nestbox. The bluebird nest cup in that box had been completed a week before and I was afraid eggs had been laid. But I had to bring the box of bees home overnight before I could remove the nest to see. At the same time the bee box was taken down, a new box was put up (with a saved nest from last year). The next day, the original nest could be removed from the swarm box and it was taken back to the bluebirds. The pair accepted these arrangements and immediately refinished their old nest cup with feathers. PS: You might want to double-check that all box seams are sealed and see if you can adjust the direction of hole away from the rain/wind. ... Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 08:04:02 -0400 Joanne, et al: I've never had this wet-nest problem, but if I did I think I'd remove the nest carefully (assuming no eggs) and dry it out, either in bright sunshine or in the oven/toaster/microwave, or right over some heater-unit in your house. Setting fire to it would be, - like, - counter-productive. Bruce Burdett, NH ... Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 08:49:22 -0500 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas Wet nest: DO NOT remove one and leave the box empty! Once the calcium forms around the bird's egg she MUST lay it and the next few also. This is why sometimes eggs are found in boxes with no nests. Females just about to lay will lose their nest site to either a natural cavity failing or maybe a nest box getting knocked down. Where do most birds nest? Why would we want to remove say a wet nest for bluebirds and not go out and remove every cardinal, song sparrow and meadow lark nest that gets wet from rain and make them wait for another dry nest! Unless the eggs are under water, a damp nest WILL NOT affect the hatching ability of the eggs! One of the best fledging years ever on our farm in the late 60's was the month of May when a cool tropical storm stopped in Northeast Texas and it rained for 23 days in May and a total of 27" of rain. With any of the birds, messing with their nest/nestbox while still in the nest building stage and even early egg laying is when you can scare the pair off to another location. Not all bluebirds (other species also) have had good experiences with humans! When they see their box destroyed by humans and their young killed they add all humans to the predator list! In some areas, letter carriers and paper "boys" destroy every bird nest found along their route. The pair of birds showing up and building that nest in your yard maybe rebuilding because of human interference just down the street! Anything we add to the nestbox (or remove) after they choose it i.e.: duct tape draws their attention as a potential predator/problem. (If they see you remove their nest why should they not reason with their little brain that you won't do this again next week!) This is not the same box they chose just a day or two ago! Those planning on wrapping their boxes with towels, insulation, closing of ventilation slots and holes should think about what YOU would do if you came home after a busy day at work and found YOUR house wrapped with builders scaffolding and windows boarded up, doors moved to a "better" location, dark roof replaced with heat reflective aluminum or bright white, exterior walls wrapped with insulation ETC. Then on top of all this your comfortable bed with down pillows and comforter has been replaced with non-allergenic synthetics, all for your own good! By all means "winterize" the boxes but do this BEFORE birds move in! Caulk and seal boxes before it is needed. Boxes getting wet empty will get wet when there is a nest. You probably have insufficient overhang to protect against rain, heat (later this summer) and roof sitting predators! Adding a 12"x12" piece of aluminum on the wood roof or the new 7/16" thick cement board in this size will help with a small roof problem. Remember this is now no longer YOUR house it is the now the BIRDS home. Treat them better than your neighbors treat you! KK
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 09:57:09 -0500 Linda and all - I have placed wet nests in the microwave and that works fine to dry them out and then place them back in the box. Does a great job of drying out the grass. Use low power and place in a plastic container. It also kills any larva that may be in the nest. Try it. you may like it. Dan McCue in Camden, TN in west TN ...
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 15:12:23 -0400 Having read Keith's opinions about drying up wet nests, I have decided to defer to his superior reasoning. What he says makes better sense than my microwave/toaster-oven suggestion. I'd never had that problem (wet nests) and I was talking off-the-cuff. Through my hat, in fact. What I was suggesting was fraught with hazard, - the more I think about it. It MIGHT work, but it's probably not worth the risk. Bruce Burdett, New Hampshire
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 20:36:04 -0500 I agree with Keith. Leave it alone. I know that it is dryer here but we have rainy spells too where nests get wet. I have never lost birds due to this. Bluebird Bob, NE Oklahoma.
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 09:50:28 -0500 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas Wet nests: OK folks we have a construction problem here and not a weather problem! If your dress clothes hanging in your closet get wet every time in rains, do you call your roofer, the dry cleaners or go buy more clothes? Why should you pay me $5,000 to replace your roof when you can toss your clothes in the dryer whenever the roof leaks! Just because you paid $20 and have a NABS approved box DOES NOT mean that it was put together correctly! After a month they shrink and open up cracks. Look at the style box you have and those with soaked nests, describe the box to this list and let us find the flaws in the design! Birds will build nests during rain storms with wet grass! You need top and bottom ventilation for these wet nests to dry out! (Remember those sweaty gym clothes zipped up in the duffel bag over the weekend?) Drainage holes; I HATE the 1/4" drilled hole, if you have them they will be plugged up. Most designs say to cut off 1/4" off the corners of the box, I'll bet they are plugged up too! I cut at LEAST 3/4" off all four corners & instead of the normal 90 degree saw setting I use a 30 degree which makes an inverted triangle (or funnel) at each corner of the box and these will not plug up! (I am copying a 1984 Montana bluebirder design for passive blowfly control! When blowflies are about to pupate they go to the bottom of the nest, crawl around and in "theory" fall down the funnel and are eaten on the ground by ants or other predators. Maybe this blowfly research will show whether my boxes are better than other designs!) If you use the Ira Campbell 1/4" wire (hardware cloth) ((make sure it is 1/4")) raised platform 1" tall this allows the nest more air circulation under it to help dry it out. Fix for plugged holes: Look where the nails are and drill 5 more 3/4" holes in the box bottoms (miss the nails). Once they build a nest no amount of wind will force air up through the nest to freeze the eggs or young. If the box bottom is flush with the sides of the box then water can run down the sides across the bottom and get wicked up the cracks and into the nest. Bottom should be recessed up at least 1/4" higher than the sides. Add the 1/4" wire platform if this is a problem area. Peterson box:Has sloped bottom to allow the blowflies to pile up right at the door so that when you open the box you can easily scrape these maggots out of the box onto the ground. In northern areas where these boxes are common they have HORRIBLE blow fly problems, over 90% of boxes in tests in their region have these flies! No drainage at all in these boxes! Why if after 30 years of this problem with this box do they not cut off 1/2" of the bottom right against the front and when these maggots crawl to the front do they not let them fall to the ground? Do monitors enjoy counting these maggots? Blowflies: I'm no expert on this, but flies find a stinky pile in the yard pretty quick! Even to my poor nose a wet nest stinks! Roofs: If the top butts into the back this joint will leak! Caulk it! If the roof is even with the sides (no overhang) water will wick under the roof and through the cracks and run into the box. You need more side overhang (3" is good). If it is blowing into the entrance hole then the top is too high over the hole (no more than 1&1/4" between roof and top of entrance) you need at least 4" overhang on front and 6" would not be bad. Fix by making bigger roof to add on. Leave 3/4" space between second roof to allow both boards to remain drier! Flat roofs should have a saw kerfs run 1/8" deep and 3/8" back from the roof edge to make water drip off the edge and not flow back into the box. If the box is already built then bending soft aluminum to cover the roof and letting the metal edges hang down 1/4" below the wood (i.e. Jack Finch style) will stop water from wicking into the box. Front and back sometimes pull away from the sides allowing rain to enter there. These need to be screwed together and caulked! All this done WITHOUT birds nesting in the box! Under normal weather conditions wet nests will not harm the birds but may attract more blowflies! Keeping water out of the box will add years of life to a nestbox! Sweat the details! Two of the best boxes in my opinion available on the web are Gary Springer's "chalet" and Jack Finches. Gary uses screws while Jack's have lasted me since 1982. Oh, we get 45-60" of rain a year in the Piney Woods of East Texas. KK
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 08:37:30 -0400 Good morning everyone...to all of those who were supportive and helpful on Good Friday when I was worried about having to replace a wet nest with new babies, thank you again. YOur support and encouragement was quite helpful. Now......I have checked on the babies several times and am pleased to report that all FOUR are doing well. The parents are being kept quite busy with feeding them and when I checked last night the little ones are now covered with tiny feathers. In addition to that good news, we now have two neighbors who have become interested in bluebirds (we invited them over to see "ours" in the past) and have put up boxes this spring. This morning, as I was taking a walk with our aging Golden Retriever, I noticed a pair in and out of one of the neighbor's boxes. I'm sure they will be thrilled as the season progresses....especially since they stand a good chance of having two sets of babies if the first one is successful. ,,, Cheryll in Adrian, MI
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 10:06:36 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. I, too, often have damp nests. Nests with a few dead chicks are often food-stressed. I think parents at those nests aren't removing fecal sacks as diligently because they are spending every minute hunting for more food. In some nests after the fledge I've found dead chicks under a thick layer of moist fecal material....
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 23:01:43 -0700 Dusty, Linda: I recently found a wet nest that I am sure was caused by the chicks defecating; they were being fed Mulberry fruits in copious quantities. So, some food sources can lead to a wet nest, I believe. Kevin Putman
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 08:57:03 -0700 Interesting, Kevin, I just ran into a clutch being fed mulberries. Hadn't seen any fruit eating bluebirds before. The chicks were purple and the nest was sloppy. I noticed the fecal sacs weren't holding together and the chicks had purple runs! Hatch ...
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:42:10 EDT You might know, the female finally laid her first egg and it was in a very wet nest! I have replaced the nest as best I could and laid the egg in it. The box is real wet also so I thought I would exchange the box with the one they used last year. (It remained dry through the storm) My question: can I let the wet nest dry and then put it back?
Any idea on how to dry the nest faster? I set it on top of the
hot water heater. Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:00:36 -0400 (EDT) Hi Linda, Since you have already replaced the wet nest have the birds accepted the new nest? If they have continued to use it forget the old wet nest. They may build a better nest than we can but the replacement nest should work fine if they have continued to use it. Some times a blowing storm can make the nest wet in the best of boxes. If this box can't be improved then use a different kind next time. Most bird species would have abandoned the nest after a human replaced it with a hand made one. The bluebirds tolerate much handling and still stay with a box. Joe Huber Venice FL. ...Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:58:31 EDT Thanks everyone for information... at this point the Mrs. has
layed the second egg in MY nest (I think she is calling for
quality control). I'm just relieved. I still plan on changing
the box as the one they are in doesn't have enough overhang
(obviously) and also had quite a large air space in the back
at the top. I'm sure that is where the rain came in. There is
supposed to be more storms. :^( I've got to hustle! Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:57:47 -0400 Hello all! This is a good time to check your boxes in case you have not done so already. It would be sad to have the nest wet, then a cold night may come, the chicks will need first aid in the morning, and may suffer from hypothermia. Here is a list of what I would look for (experienced bluebirders may want to skip reading the rest of this Message:) 1. Check that the roof and all sides are free of cracks, holes,
or other unwanted openings. Fill these holes (only on the outside)
with Silicone Seal (SS.) Linda Violett smears SS on top the roof using her bare hands/fingers. I never enjoyed finger painting, but for those who do, this may be an excellent way to water proof the roof. Wishing you all a happy bluebirding season... Fawzi in MD P.S. If one of your nests is found wet, please check right away and fix/repair the cause if one is found. Also, have on hand either pine needles or grass straws, similar to what your BBs use in their nest. Remove the eggs/babies into a cushioned, well lined basket. Remove the wet nest and replace it with a new one you shape using your hands. Put back the eggs/babies. You'll be surprised how happy the parents will be to find a nice dry nest, even though it is not as well shaped as the original! Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:07:45 -0700 (PDT) --- Dinlows"at"aol.com wrote: My question: can I let the wet nest dry and then put it back? Any idea on how to dry the nest faster? I set it on top of the hot water heater. Hi Linda, ===== Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:41:37 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. How do you seal your boxes in preparation to the nesting season? I smear clear silicone caulking all over my boxes well in advance of the nesting season. The silicone caulk provides a flexible waterproof "skin" and seals any cracks. There are differing opinions, of course. Some would point out that your leaky box with gaps provides an excellent opportunity for nature to discard chicks that can't survive cold damp conditions . . . a stronger gene pool. But if it were me, I'd be out there pronto putting electrical tape (or something) over that back leaky seam until a waterproof replacement box is installed. Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:57:16 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Good list, Fawzi. Another waterproof tip is to drill any vents at an upward angle to make it harder (impossible?) for rain to whip up into them. Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 09:09:31 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA As some of you know, The North East as well as most of the North has been encircled with a huge weather system bringing lots of rain and cool weather..... I've found two boxes so far where most of the babies died before they could fledge. In one case (Gilbertson) the box was SOAKED. Now before everyone gets on the "trash Gilbertson bandwagon", I had another Gilbertson where babies hatched same day and those 5 babies all fledged fine - and nest was dry enough. Anyway, having babies preemie fledge on me last year from changing nests (and box - remember it was wicked hot and box with 1/2 full of rotting babies) so near to fledge, I need some support in how old one can change nests, how old can one remove dead babies, etc. w/out preemie fledging. Again, I am gun shy as last year I held the hole after changing their box for 20+ minutes and they all still preemie fledged. I am not looking to change boxes on them this year, just change nests if need be or remove dead babies. As someone said last year so many problems happen the last few days and with this weather I agree- as both nests with dead babies were fine one week prior. Also is it better to reach in with hand to remove dead baby
or is it better to use long handled tongs. Which will scare
them less. It is interesting because no matter how tight a box
is, the parents are bringing in water every time they come to
feed - although this particular Gilbertson must have been able
to pick up driving rain. I did clean the box and put more drain
holes in the bottom. This is one of my home mades, so the roof
is WAY bigger then Gilbertson's made. Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 11:48:59 -0400 (EDT) Hi Haleya, Everything you read says don't mess with baby Blues after 12 days or they may pre-fledge. What do I know since I always used top opening boxes I've removed young and replaced nests with 14 day olds. How this was done is by preparing a paper grocery bag with a bath towel lined bottom. Top of bag tends to taper shut so they can't see a way to fly out. Place babies in bottom of bag on towel, then replace the nest quickly. Gently put babies back in box on new nest one at a time and close the box. Perhaps this is safer with a top opening box. Never any attempts to get out. Maybe I was lucky. Watched them fledge4 days later as these were in my back yard in Heath, Ohio. I never made any effort to block the entrance hole during this switch of nests. Joe Huber venice, Fl. ...Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 12:11:56 -0400 (EDT) Hello all, There have been many comments lately about cold wet weather effecting nesting birds. One event sticks in my mind concerning the results of prolonged rainy weather. In 1974 Hurricane Agnes came into the gulf in early June and the rain bands moved north. This system stalled at about the Ohio boarder and it rained for 5 straight days and nights. Purple Martins had started nesting and most had eggs in their nest so would not leave. A friend of mine in Waverly Ohio had had nesting Martins for 50 years and had over 100 pairs for the last 4 years. These birds rely on flying insects for food and because of the continued rain they began starving to death. Birds were soaring to the ground all over his property and after 5 days none were left. No Martins returned the following spring. This same storm effected western IN. Northern Ky , WVa, and parts of Pa. This same system must have had the same effect on Tree swallows and other birds. Bluebirds can recover from this since they get to nest again the same year. Nature can be cruel. if you have lost nests this year don't blame yourself because many others had the same problem out of their control. Joe Huber Venice,Fl. ...Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 13:53:59 -0400 Haleya is out on the trail right now . She has one box that was due to start fledging yesterday. She peeked in and 3 of the babies are alive for sure. The three look healthy but little wet. She can't tell if the other three are alive or not.The nest itself is wet. She assumes she can't change the nest because it is fledging time. Is there anything else she can do besides bringing the parents mealworms? Thom (the husband) Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 23:26:09 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA Thanks all for your thoughts and help. I learned a lot today. I had the one Gilbertson soaked with 3 dead babies while 2 other Gilbertson's with younger chicks were dry as a bone. Go figure! I had a slot box that had such a tiny roof, and you know how close those babies are to the slot and by golly 5 babies ready to fledge were all nice and warm and toasty in a very dry nest. The other 2 boxes that were wet were/are NABS boxes, one with a few dead babies that I found a few days ago and then currently 3 babies that I can see out of six sitting on a very wet nest - I took the parents mealies and we plugged up the vent holes for the evening, so prayers for these babies. I have had several other wooden boxes that successfully fledged babies in the past week - so perhaps if nothing else, it is a hit or miss in terms of which boxes are going to get soaked and others not.... Anyway, good luck everyone and let us know how your nests are doing in this rain! :-) H Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 08:56:07 -0400 Thom, Just for starters, I'd certainly seal up every aperture where water (rain) could get in with sealer of some kind, like silicone. With my NABS houses, the most important aperture is between the roof and the back-board. (All my houses are NABS-style.) Maybe the next step would be to increase the roof overhangs. Of course, these are preventives, - not cures. I've never had the kind of wetness problem you describe, so I have no experience in trying to deal with it.
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 15:00:15 -0400 If you have good, NABS approved nestboxes (you can make good ones yourself or buy them) the rain and cold snaps (usually) do not affect the birds or their babies. Are your boxes leaky? Who made them, what kind are they, roof overhang on all sides, vents, drainage, etc.? All these questions are important for us to know. Please send this information ASAP ... Fawzi from MD Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:39:16 -0400 (EDT) Hello Dotti, Don't think the wet nest will stop the Bluebirds from laying eggs on time. Should check to see why nest got wet in first place so you can correct that for next time. Joe Huber Venice fl. ...
Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 01:38:39 -0700 (PDT) ===== Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 09:25:40 -0400 I'm only assuming they are dead, they are cold, not moving at all, and a couple of maggots were on them and in their nest. I removed the maggots, took them out of the nest and put them under light and heat. Still no movement. Could they be revitalized or am I kidding myself? They appear to be 8-10 days old. 5-babies, 2 males 3 females. Is there anything I could have done to prevent this tragedy? The facts are this- 3 days of heavy N.E down pours, below normal temps, the last we saw the mother with them was the night before last. Covering them during the pouring rain looking very worried. Out of all of my houses, she chose the slot box house. We are heartbroken, my husband felt that we should have removed them or helped cover them from the horrid wind and rain. I wasn't sure what to do. Should we have fooled with "mother nature" or let nature take it's course. They only had about a week more to go to fledge. How can we learn from this tragedy. Is box a death trap and should we remove it altogether? My husband doesn't want me to bury them until we are certain they are dead. How can I be absolutely sure they are gone and not in a "coma or hypothermia state"? Please help me............ -Lisa Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 10:18:50 -0400 Dear Lisa, I think you need to know that this bad cold wet weather can really wreak havoc on babies - this happens even to the most experienced of bluebirders. This is when we are certain nature is cruel and unjust - but surely we have to remember that death is a part of life..... Could you have done anything differently???? Maybe, but maybe not. I've had babies make it in terrible weather in slot boxes and some die in nice big boxes. We honestly don't know why they died. Maybe the mom got killed by some predator, maybe hit by a car. Most likely it was the bad weather but you must not take so much responsibility. Remember that parents will abandon when they know that they themselves are at risk of dying. Remember the airline steward/dess saying put the mask on yourself FIRST before your children. As cruel as it may seem, it is better for the survival of the species for the parents to stay alive as they can have more offspring. So she might have done the BEST thing to abandon rather than put herself at risk!!! Here are some things to think about for the future: 2) You CAN if you want tape up part of the slot during really bad weather. Just make sure the parents have access to the nest and can get through the hole. This can help keep the warmth in the box. However, if the box is dry on the inside, the cold itself won't be the killer. 3) I don't know the size of your roof, but I have very large roofs on my boxes now. This was initially to keep the hot sun off the boxes, but they ALSO make for keeping the box drier. Keep up the terrific work!!!!! :-) H Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 10:06:08 -0400 It is hard to know what to do. This year I had a nest of 3 eggs when we had a forecast of temps in the low teens. With advice from a trusted, seasoned bluebirder, I brought the nest in for the night and replaced it as soon as the temps rose. The mother returned and continued to lay another egg. All four fledged. Last year at school, mid March, during weather with freezing rain we had a nest of five babies in one of our feeder boxes. Because the nest was getting wet, we rigged up a larger roof to shield them. Later that day we put up another box next to the feeder, made a dry nest, and moved them into it. Parents continued to look after them and all five fledged. It sounds like your babies are not living and it is heartbreaking, but the parents will nest again. I lost a nest of newly hatched chicadees this year and now have a nest of titmice. Two of the six eggs had hatched by yesterday afternoon, but this morning the two chicks looked very weak. This is my first experience with them. Should they look listless? I had thought they should be alert with mouths open. I dread going home this afternoon as I fear something as happened to mom. As I am typing a male bluebird is grabbing a mealworm from a feeder on my window not 2 feet from my face. How beautiful. The children love watching them. Sometimes when the feeder is empty, the birds sit and look at me as if to say, "More worms, please." When they are getting the worms for their chicks, they drop to the concrete or a stepping stone to hit the worms before taking them to the nest. Are they killing them before feeding them to their chicks? ann in nc From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com Lisa, et al, In this frightful weather, keeping the nest and its contents dry is crucially important. Unfortunately, there are quite a number of things that can cause the losses that you describe. When you have only a few houses, or just one, the loss is especially hard to take. (I have 64 houses, so I have MANY difficult episodes.) But you must not torment yourself about it. It's probably not your fault. You made the best effort you could, and now you should start over. It's certainly not too late. Bruce Burdett, SW NH P.S. Where are you, by the way? Did you say New England, or was it Nebraska? From: TomGaryH"at"aol.com Your 02-05-18 07:03:08 EDT Bluebird-L post reads (in part): If the nest is wet but it is very warm does it still have
an undesirable If the nest is wet I think the effects of evaporation may affect the hen's ability to maintain optimum warmth for nestlings or eggs. Someone will no doubt be able to shed more light on this, but I think you may want to substitute that unused nest or dry grasses you have been saving for any thoroughly wet nest you may find. Since you are in the south you may have large vents in the body of the box as well as in its floor. These may work against the birds if there is a breeze and a wet nest whereas if the nest is dry they would be of much less concern. Of course, a wet nest may contribute to poor sanitation depending on the age of any nestlings that may be involved. Tom Heintzelman Backyard Nestbox Landlord From: "Dottie, Hickory Hollow, Brown County, Indiana"
yumyumkatts"at"voyager.net Linda Violett said: "With more monitors choosing to weatherproof their boxes, the number of "wet nest" posts to Bluebird-L has been considerably reduced each spring." I totally agree Linda. I'm sure it has helped me not to loose any BB babies if we have a cold, wet and nasty spring. I also leave the duck tape on the cracks and holes until it gets warm. We had a very nasty spring last year but I didn't loose one BB baby. Dottie, Hickory Hollow Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:45:46 -0800 (PST) I am trying pieces of 1/2"x1/2" aluminum right angle stock. A piece about 5.5" long is fastened to the underside of the roof of each NABS-style box at both sides. One face of the stock is flush with the vertical edge of the roof.I hope that each piece will act as a drip edge and keep rain from blowing into the 1/4"x4" slot at the top of each side of the box, as well as help prevent migration of water along the underside of the roof.Tony BergJames City County, VA From: "Fawzi P. Emad femad <at> fpemad <dot> com If you make your own boxes, here is something similar to what you do. I make the roof a bit large (to extend 2" on all sides and 3 to 4" on the front.) I use my saw to make a 1/8" deep kerf, blade width (about 1/8",) along all four edges on the underneath face of the roof. These are made about 1/2" in from the edges. The idea is to form a "drip" line in case water comes to the bottom of the roof. All my boxes have these drip lines... Fawzi Fawzi Emad in Laytonsville, Maryland Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 23:20:47 -0800 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Nice to see the tinkering being done by monitors to keep roof runoff from getting into nestboxes. I've been adding a piece of wood trim to the front edge of
the roof which serves two purposes: A close-up photo of the drip edge can be seen about midway down on the following page: http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett/construction.html From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas Last year Gary Springer sent me European research conducted with various birds where they intentionally "wet the nests" of birds and studied the effects on % of eggs hatched and baby birds fledged. Their conclusions were that "wet nests" really made little or no difference IF the food supply remained adequate. In cold weather different insects are still available but may not be "good" food for young bluebirds. Fishing worms are often the only food available during prolonged cold rainy weather. I watched 6 bluebirds the other day (34*F at the time) and they were wading in water up to their bellies and picking up some type of grub or short worm (maggots maybe) that were escaping the puddles of water by crawling up blades of grass in the water. WE had received about 4" of very cold rain during the night. They were finding so many of these that we actually saw one of the birds catching them and leaving them lay on top of a power line going to a building. I just received the Ellis bird farm newsletter from Myrna Pearman
(Alberta Dry nests mean dry nestboxes and this means that the nestbox will last years longer! KK Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 13:37:53 -0500 Ruth Brinckman RE: Wet Nests Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I have to disagree with the man from Texas that wet nests do not effect the birds. Early last spring we had a cold, very wet and rainy week (all week), I checked my neighbors bluebird box and the nestlings were frozen to death. I can't remember just how old they were but they had all their feathers and were a good size (at least 2 inches long). They were happy, eating well and chirping prior to this one bad week. I examined the nest and it was totally wet and soggy. The box she uses has a front opening and the top of the back has a large vent all across the width of the top. Since the rain and wind were blowing in the direction of the back of the box, I am convinced that this was the cause of the nestlings death. I use a different type of box with slanted vent holes in the sides and whenever we have a bad week such as I just described, I cover the top, back and sides of the house with plastic and I have never encountered even so much as a damp nest. P.S. During the summer when the temp is in the upper 90's, I also drape a wet cloth and a icebag over the roof. I have had much success with this also. Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 23:14:25 -0800 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Keith, since bluebirds are not native to Europe, we can safely assume the article Gary Springer sent to you did not include bluebirds in that European study. Indeed, the brief information provided in your post does not indicate whether any cavity nesters were included in the data nor the name/quality of the research team. Most bluebird monitors instinctively know that wet nests represent a detrimental factor in the nesting process of bluebirds and other cavity nesters. It may not be the only factor of a failed nest attempt but, as Ruth Brinckman illustrates, wet nests are preventable with a little foresight and care. The neighbor box that Ruth describes with a vent across the top of the back appears to be a poor design. However, it could be modified by adding an L-shape strip to the back of the roof to at least block rain/snow from entering the vent opening. Hats off to Ruth for protecting her birds during climate extremes and let's hope her example rubs off on the neighbors who had frozen nestlings die in a soggy box. From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas The Bluebird and wood duck/owl nestboxes I was installing yesterday
have a lot of roof overhang! My bluebird nestboxes are full
1" thick lumber 4.75X4.75 floor size and 12"x12"
roof. KK Wesolowski T., Czeszczewik D., Rowinski P., Walankiewicz W. 2002. Nest soaking in natural holes -- a serious cause of breeding failure? Ornis Fennica 79: 132-138. Nest loss rates of four secondary hole-nesters: Pied (Ficedula
hypoleuca) and Collared (Ficedula albicollis) Flycatchers, Marsh
Tit (Parus palustris) and European Nuthatch (Sitta europaea)
due to soaking recorded during a long-term study in a primaeval
temperate forest (Białowieża National Park, The authors are grateful to the CAVNET participants - Jessica Eberhard, Karen Wiebe and Peter McBride for providing unpublished data or literature excerpts. Tomasz Wesolowski From: klubea"at"comcast.net I have some woodlink bluebird houses which i'm trying to improve
on. They tend to leak where the roof and back attach. Its not
chiseled in. So I took a 2 1/2 piece of cedar and attached it
across the top, also did put a thin piece where the roof and
back connect. Is having the larger piece on the top bad??? I
thought it would help keep the rain from raining down on that
area altogether. Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 09:25:30 -0500 I have one nestbox which faces north toward a huge pecan tree out in the pasture. But when the babies fledge they always end up in the tree which is ESE, which is where the parents often hunt from and where they may roost at night. I've never watched the fledging, but I'll guess the parents call them to that tree. Another nestbox has several trees out in front of it at a reasonable distance, but is also under the canopy of a huge oak. In this case they babies end up in the tree under which they fledged, which may very well happen when they fledge out of a natural cavity. Kate Arnold Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 18:00:32 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA From: klubea"at"comcast.net I used transparent caulk years back thinking it would dry clear
well when the box got wet it would turn white. So went to the
store the other day and got Clear caulk. It goes on white but
dries clear. Well it did dry clear but when it got wet in the
rain the other day it turned white. I guess it needs to try
for two weeks which is too long for me. I did see a completely
clear caulk by DAP for special projects. It goes on clear and
dries clear. Is that the clear you mean??? Its very annoying
when i thought i did such a good job on siliconing the house
but when the edges turn white in rain and wherever else it is.
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 21:29:49 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA Right now I am using: Ace Brand - 100% Architectural Grade - clear/transparent indoor/outdoor Silicone. I'll run some water over a new seam with this silicone and see what happens. :-) H... Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 20:14:06 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Calli said her silicone turned white when it got wet. Therefore, she most likely used a water soluble caulk and might not have let it dry/cure sufficiently. Calli, what brand did you use? Two clear silicone caulks I use are Dap/Alex and GE. Dap/Alex is white during application and it dries crystal clear. If you let it dry overnight inside the house or garage, it will probably appear clear but has not really had sufficient time to cure. This brand is water soluble. If you don't let water-soluble caulks dry sufficiently, they will revert to a whitish color if they are exposed too soon to moisture. Give the Dap/Alex brand a few days to cure inside the home or garage during winter. If the caulk feels at all tacky, give it more time. If you aren't sure, lay a wet paper towel on part of the caulk. If it turns white, it needs more curing time. After the Alex/Dap brand of clear caulk is sufficiently dry (cured), it will never turn white. GE Brand is not water soluble and has a gluey consistency and doesn't dry with the same crystal clear qualities of the cheaper Dap/Alex brand. GE "clear" has a cloudy transparency. However, if it is applied to a fairly clean material with good adhesion, it seems to last forever. During the past week someone on Bluebird-L wrote that all solid wood roofs eventually warp. My box roofs--protected from moisture with silicone caulk--have not warped; and GE is the best caulk to use for long-term roof protection. But I prefer Dap/Alex brand for new boxes (the crystal clear finish looks like the box has been varnished until it picks up atmosphere grime), and the Dap/Alex brand provides easy cleanups (water soluble) so it is nice to use for quick touchups in dry weather. ... From: "Chris Turnbow" cturnbow"at"midsouth.rr.com Don't caulk boxes south of the Mason Dixon! Those boxes need all the ventilation they can get! Weatherproof boxes during the winter with something easily removable in spring. Take care, From: klubea"at"comcast.net Hi Linda and all, From: "emcooper" emcooper"at"bayou.com We have to caulk the seam where it fits on the roof in the back. After they get to be a couple years old, they start leaking there. By the way, my husband used some black caulking as the Bluebirds don't care and they are down in the boonies anyway.It has held really well. We have holes drilled on the top of each side under the roof edge and also four corners in the bottom. Another thing that has helped is the echo roof which is wider than the original roof. But, the last terrible weather we had, tornados and high wind, I think it even blew in the entrance hole. Not too bad, but was a little damp. They have all dried out. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, La. Louisiana Bayou Bluebird Society Bluebirds along the bayous....where we lend a helping hand! www.labayoubluebirdsociety.org From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"tds.net Calli, Haleya, Chris, et al, From: Lawrence Herbert [mailto:lherbert"at"4state.com] Susan in VA: You'll get plenty of answers about what to do to check for blowfly Here is what I do: I leave well enough alone and let the birds be. I take I don't band anymore, so I rarely handle them at all. I carried around a clean, dry nest in the trunk all last season and never Good birding, Larry H. Joplin (sw) MO. From: lviolett [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 12:23 AM Subject: Re: New or different insights Yes, Simon, many topics are brought up each year and it is nice to know that some on List (such as yourself) realize there is a purpose to the same topics resurfacing each year. That means that there is still an unsolved problem, perhaps a faulty consensus or unanswered questions.
If you have been on this List for eight or nine years, you may recall that we used to get a bevy of posts from monitors losing chicks during cold weather. Those discussions focused on how to construct replacement nests or how to dry it out with hair dryers, etc. The real issue was not how to dry a nest, it was how to PREVENT wet nests. But some well-known old-timers were insisting on "natural" unsealed boxes. Remember that? There were very important-sounding posts about chemicals and toxicity of paint and boxes not being able to "breath" (I was using and recommending clear silicone caulk on the whole box.) That same discussion had to be debated about three or four consecutive years during the "wet nest" season before the general consensus GRADUALLY changed to at least sealing cracks and seams. And as long as we aren't getting posts about dead chicks in wet nests, no one cares if just the seams and cracks are sealed or the whole box.
Personally, I always look closely at posts from new monitors on old topics. They are the most likely to provide fresh insight to problems that the old-timers obviously have not solved.
Linda Violett
Yorba Linda, Calif.
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