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Problems with wasps/bees/hornets on the bluebird trail (Part 1)In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website: Predators and Problems On The Bluebird Trail Subj: Wasps/Foil Subj: Wasp Control Subj:
Birds vs Bees Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 11:03:03 -0600 Stephen and Regina Garr Hi All, We're doing one of our Bluebird/Purple Martin Seminars tomorrow and I was wondering if anyone could give me new (or old) ideas on discouraging wasps and bees form nest boxes ( in addition to routine mainetence ,of course). I've heard soap on the inside of the roof, mesh wire, etc. , but I've never really tried any of these things. Could anyone give us ideas and details on "how to"? Thanks,
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 16:42:41 -0500 I had wasp/hornet problems in some of my 25 boxes. I stapled heavy duty aluminum foil to the inside of the top (my tops remove). This nearly ended the problem. One box still had them. I wadded up a good size piece of foil and put it in the box. On a cool morning, I lifted up the front slightly and put a propane torch on the foil for a second. The heat radiated immediately, roasting the wasps. If there is a wasp in the box, no birds will move into the box. Conversely, any boxes with birds had no wasps. D. H. Snook ...
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 20:43:02 -0500 From: Bruce Burdett, NH Bluebird Conspiracy, Sunapee NH blueburd"at"srnet.com To: Steve and Regina, et al, I've never used anything but bar soap, rubbed liberally on the ceilings of my boxes, to prevent wasps from attaching their paper nests. Plain old Ivory is good, though I suppose any kind will do. One application lasts a whole season. You mentioned bees. I've never known any kind of bee to go into my houses, much less nest there. What kind of bees are you referring to? Surely honey bees wouldn't do it. Bumblebees nest in the ground, usually. I suppose hornets (yellow-jackets) might, but I've never seen it happen. The only stinging insects I've ever seen in my houses are wasps, and since I started using soap, - no more wasp problems.
: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 18:06:20 -0800 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Hi All! Anyone wanting to see a nestbox taken over by bees can visit my website at http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett/ ...
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 23:02:34 -0600 Regina Garr Bruce and all : The Bees in nest boxes several folks in our area have encountered are bumble bees. I personally have to deal with them on our Shelby Bottoms Trail in Nashville and also on a Trail at home. The Bumble Bees have (in my case) always been in Chickadee nests(in Bluebird boxes that Carolina Chickadees have nested in ) and the Bee is "burrowed" into the usually completed nest. You actually HEAR the buzzing on approaching the house, and it gets very intense as you begin to open the door. It will scare the daylights out of you the first time - You think you hear this "motor " coming on every time you touch the house. By the way , these were houses I was monitoring at LEAST 4 times per week, and often daily. (We try to maintain a presence around the boxes in the public park). The first time I ever came across this Growling/Buzzing house, I used my tape recorder that I use for trail records to record the sound, then I went to the car and played the tape over the phone to my husband - I asked "what the hec is this???" I usually follow the catch -em - early while they're cold plan and tear out the entire nest and squash the bee if he doesn't get away.(bird has of course abandoned the nest) THANKS EVERYONE for the input on controlling wasps. Regina
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 06:47:01 -0600 Keith Kridler Rained all night and to continue today in Northeast Texas. This will be a problem for our "Nestbox" day scheduled to be outside a local hardware center. Sun: I also am in the area of the country where the sun does far more damage than good. It is often already at 85*F at sunrise in East Texas from May till August so even if the Eastern Bluebirds do "Prefer" a box located in full sun I don't give them this option as heat will start killing young as early as May in some years. Maximum direct sun exposure should be limited to morning only here in my part of the south. Bumble Bees: They normally take over a field mouse nest in thick grass. In poor rodent years there is a shortage of nests for them to use. The "Queen" bumble bee's breed in fall and winter over. She hunts out a nest site and begins a small colony. By simply removing the mouse nest in the box or in your case the chickadee nest she will be forced to start a colony somewhere else. She will not carry grass to start the colony. With the wild honey bees dying out in many parts of the country and many commercial apiaries going out of business we need all of the pollinators we can get. Without insects, many of the fruits and berries the birds rely on in winter would never be able to "set" fruit without the "bees". Lady bugs: While cleaning nestboxes last week I found thousands of the "Asian" lady beetles wintering over in old bird nests and sometimes a handful were simply "balled" up in an empty box. As usual the nests were scattered in the garden with the ladybugs a bonus. KK
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 08:40:42 -0500 From: B. Burdett, southwest NH, blueburd"at"srnet.com The wasps that I (used to) get in my Bluebird houses are brownish-black, or blackish-brown, they are skinny, with narrow 'wasp' waists, they're about 7/8" long, and they STING!!, believe me. On occasion, when I wasn't alert enough, they've nailed me real good. A video-cam could have caught some mighty comical scenes around my houses. It's amazing how well my stainless-steel knee joints function under such circumstances. (I wonder if there'll ever be an official Olympic event for sprinters with artificial knees.)
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 09:28:03 -0500 from Dot Forrester, upstate NY, Lake Ontario snowbelt, where almost all snow has melted away. Still no bluebirds! Hi all - When I get wasps, they are almost always paper wasps, easy to identify because of the papery nest material. I don't get them much any more because I use a coating of vaseline on the inside tops and partway down the sides, which works for me but not for everyone. I have twice, though, had yellow jackets (the ones that are attracted to open cans of soda). These guys are dangerous and call for spraying, followed by a very careful cleansing and drying out of the box. I think actually they are hornets, but am not sure about that.
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:36:47 -0500 Someone wondered if honey bees would move into a nest box. I don't think it is common, but I know of one instance when honey bees took over a nest box. Two years ago in Sapsucker Woods, the acreage that houses the Cornell Lab of Ornithology in Ithaca, NY, we watched a swarm of honey bees move into a kestrel box. I called a local beekeeper, but unfortunately, it was August and too late to get the bees moved into a hive. (He said they wouldn't have enough time to make enough honey to survive the winter.) The bees did not make it over the winter, but it was fascinating to see them. They totally covered the front of the box for about 5 days and then went inside. So if anyone experiences honey bee swarms in boxes, call a beekeeper. Their chances of surviving in a nest box are reduced because it is too exposed and they also have a mite problem that beekeepers can help with. Colleen DeLong
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 10:43:10 -0500 From: B. Burdett, southwest NH, blueburd"at"srnet.com To: The Forresters, et al, Here in NH, we think of 'yellow-jackets' as hornets, though I gather that in some places they're referred to as wasps, - incorrectly in my opinion. They are always BAD news. Only once or twice in 9 years I've had them in a Bluebird house, and they filled up practically all the space in the interior with their big nests. When I opened these houses it was: A.) a very sudden and major surprise, and, B.) absolutely terrifying (and painful). To this day, every time I open a house to monitor it I'm almost pathologically alert, and I have my escape route all planned out. Usually, though, you can spot the heavy hornet-traffic long before you approach the house. No Bluebird could nest in a house thus infested. Fortunately for us bluebirders, I don't believe that the big White-faced Hornets nest in cavities. They build huge, grey paper nests about the size of a basketball, or a large Hubbard Squash. UNfortunately, they often build them in low shrubbery, about waist high. They're the absolute WORST, in my book. 'Paper Wasps' ' nests in bird-houses are normally quite small, especially if you find them early enough - only a few cells in size. But they always seem to have a half-dozen or so aggressive 'attendants'. Hornet colonies, like honeybee colonies, can number in the thousands. A strong, mid-summer honeybee hive can have 80,000 workers, more or less, but they're usually harmless, even docile, if handled correctly. (unless, of course, they're the so-called "killer", or African bees, which are more difficult to work with.)
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 09:17:37 -0800 In Northern California honey bees can be a problem in nestboxes put up for wood ducks. They usually invade a nestbox in the spring when they are most likely to swarm. They will begin their comb making on the lid of the box and if left undisturbed they can fill the box completely. We have also found bumblebee nests in the wood duck boxes. They build their nests in the shavings in the bottom of the box. Our Bluebird nestboxes have been undisturbed by honey bees or bumblebees. We have found a few paperwasp nests in the corner of some of our Bluebird nestboxes. Janet King Northern California, very rainy and 50+*
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:59:04 -0800 Hi All, I had one nestbox that had White-faced Hornets in it. It was hot that day so I backed off and came when it was cold to remove them. Maynard R Sumner Flint, Michigan Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. ...
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 15:30:11 -0500 (EST) Joe Huber Venice Fl. From Ohio: Hello all, When checking nest boxes in spring time I was always suspicious of any box with no apparent activity about it. In Ohio by checking boxes in A.M. the temperature was generally to cold for the wasps etc. to be active. I always carried a can of raid for my protection. When removing a box roof you can peek in under it to see if any wasp nests are on the roof or in a corner near the top. If any were spotted the roof was lowered in place and a 1 second shot of raid was sprayed into the entrance hole. Within a few seconds the one or two wasp were on the floor. None ever rebuilt when using this method. I know there are plenty of you out there that object to any type of spraying but back in the 70,s other methods of control were not known. All boxes with this treatment did have successful Bluebird nests later in the same year. In 25 years there were only a dozen cases of wasp nests to contend with. If any of your boxes are setting there with no activity it could be because of a wasp nest inside. Birds will not use one with wasp or hornet nests in it. Maybe you should try the soaped roof and sides near the top inside instead of raid. Joe Huber Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe
Huber
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 09:24:55 -0800 Colleen, although I've not done it in 40 years or so, I used to have a hive when I was a kid (a neighbor who had many "gave" me one to care for). I've surely captured and moved a lot of bees to hives. While things may well have changed in the ensuing years, we had some stuff that I thought was called "Bee Keeper". It was a waxy spongy material that you gave to bees as food to help them through the winter. Maybe next time you might contact a different bee keeper and see what they say... Best regards, ...
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 00:47:42
EST The good news is, that six years ago I switched to a new product to stop the bees and paper wasps from using the boxes. It is an insecticidal strip that power and telephone companies put in their telephone line and power boxes to keep the wasps out. It does not emit any insecticide until a bee or wasp walks across it to activate it just enough to kill the insect walking across it. The strips come in a pack of six 1" X 4" strips that have an adhesive back. I do not use the adhesive back, but just staple it to the underside of the box top. I started using a full strip the first couple of years, but now use a 1"X2" strip each year. I have had 4 to 6% of my boxes used each year by Am. kestrels, screech and barn owls and have had no problems with the young fledging. In a bluebird box a 1"x1"
strip should be more than enough to keep paper wasps and honey
bees from using the lid of the box to build their nests or honey
combs. The strip only kills the scout honey bees that check out
the box and walk across the strip to set off the insecticidal
strip. You can find out the closest dealer in your state that
sells the insecticidal strips by calling 1-800-637-6047, Rainbow
Technology Corp., Birmingham, AL. This insecticidal strip was
a masters thesis project for two years by a student at the University
of California at Davis on its effectiveness and safety for birds,
before any of us in California used the strips in our wood duck
boxes. The strips come in packages of six 1"x4" strips,
and cost approx. $1.86 per pk. Cut into small 1"x1"
strips would cost approx. $.08 per strip to be used in a bluebird
box. It might be worth a try for those that are having problems
with paper wasp. SS Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:45:43 EST Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:30:22 -0800 (PST) Hi! With several inquiries about yellow jackets, etc., with feeding grape jelly, I'll share this with all of you. Yes, there are a few wasps, yellow jackets, and/or ants. However, with ant traps (or I also read somewhere that one could use fishing line for hanging nectar feeders, to avoid ants), so if bothersome, I might hang the "plant holder" on which I've placed the grape jelly saucers onto the shepherd's pole via fishing line. The wasps/yellow jackets are worse at my hummingbird nectar feeder. To alleviate this problem, last summer, I consulted the manager at the wild bird store; and they had just received a stock of Oak Stump Farm, Inc. yellow jacket/wasp trap It's a plastic jar (approx. 1 1/2 quart) with four portholes onto tubing, into which the "bugs" crawl, attracted by the sweetness of orange juice or cider; and they don't have sense enough to exit, end up "drowning" in bottom of the jar. Oak Stump Farm, Inc. is located in Clifton, NJ, ad Eugune, OR. After "collecting" a bunch, then periodically, I empty, rinse, and put in some more juice, for the next bunch. Happy birding to each of you! Stan Merrill, St. Paul, MN
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 21:42:54 -0800 I read about insect tape that could be cut into 1" strips and used to keep wasps out of bluebird houses. I ran this down and found a distributor in Dallas, TX that stocks this Rainbow product. ( 800-805-9679). However they sell it in case lots for $87 a case, and I don't need to keep wasps out of all of the bluebird houses in the world! Does anyone know where I can get smaller amounts - or have any ideas for a similar product? I have a lot of problems with paper wasps in this area, and sometimes chickadees will abandon a nest when I am running the line only once a week. Bluebird Bob, Coweta, OK
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:22:17 -0800 Bob, Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:57:26 -0800
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:19:46 -0800 works - also petroleum jelly. With an 80 house line that I plan to expand I am looking for a simpler way and the insect strips are something that I want to try if I can buy them in less than $87 quantities.
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 21:31:46 -0800 Putting this stickey side out on poles sounds like a good idea and I will try it. Anyone else have any experience with this? I would be reluctant to put this on the inside top of a house as with time it dries out and could fall into the nest. Bluebird Bob, Coweta, OK
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:58:13 -0500 The product called insect tape as well as its application in the Bluebird nest box is new to me. Using the kind of detail that Keith Kridler would use, could someone please describe the product, the application, the history of its use, and successes and failures? Thanks, Gary Springer
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 07:30:21 -0600 Dave - Dan McCue here in west TN at Camden. Do these strips really keep paper wasps from building? Have anybody tried them in our listserve? If all is positive, maybe should approch them or one of their dealers with a collective deal. Dan, the Bluebird Man of Benton County. ...
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:38:23 -0800 Gary, It is a insecticidal strip that power and telephone companies put in their telephone line and power boxes to keep the wasps out. It does not emit any insecticide until a bee or wasp walks across it to activate it just enough to kill the insect walking across it.The strips come in a pack of six 1" x 4" strips that have an adhesive back. Sometimes you can staple it to underside of the top. I cut them into 1" x 1" strips. The Birmingham, AL. number is 800-637-6047. They only sell them in big lots. Some have them for $87.00 a case and some are $36.00 a case. Bad news is all are on backorder right now. Maynard R Sumner Flint, Michigan Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Galatian 6:7
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:38:08 -0800 Dan, I have not used the product, but I did receive it promptly yesterday. The product labelling says it works on paper wasps. The insecticide in the product is Baygon. The manufacturer's rep that I talked to explained that an insect's nervous system is in its exoskeleton, and therefore is more susceptable to smaller doses of this poison than animals.It is, however, poisonous to humans and animals; and it should be treated as such. I only plan to use it where I have yellowjacket infestation; and when they leave, I will remove it. I'm going to try it out this Sunday. David Cook ...
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 17:19:43 -0500 I have had great success by stapling heavy duty Reynold's Wrap aluminum foil to the top of the roof on the inside. It does not bother the birds. Doug Snook
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:03:12 -0500 David, First, an insects nervous system is not in it's exoskeleton. It sects have neural networks, albeit far less complex than that those found in higher animals. None the less, these networks are internal just as yours are. It just so happens that the mode of respiration requires that there be small openings called spiracles to allow for effective oxygenation of the tissues of the insect. This is one of the limiting factors in insect size. To get insects much bigger that the current spectrum, a more active system for oxygen transfer would be needed. Also, the exoskeleton is made up of layers of chitin, waxes and lipoproteins to put it briefly. ;-) Many pesticides are mixed with or made with compounds that act as solvents for these layers. (soap is a common example). This allows the pesticide to permeate the exoskeleton more rapidly. Second, insects are indeed animals. They are not plants nor are they fungi. The correct phylogenetic order is found below. KINGDOM: ANIMALIA Jeff Holbrook ...
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 18:48:20 -0800 David Cook wrote: Thanks Jeff,
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:25:15 -0800 Gary - I regret to say that I can't remember where in my bluebird readings that I saw where a 1" strip on the inside top of the house would keep paper wasps away. I ordered some today from S. West Power, Concord, CA (800-670-7746) - info that I got yesterday from one of our listserve members and I will try it and report results. I have a lot of problems with them causing chickadees to abandon nests. Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:06:50 -0800 See previous Message - I was able to order 20 packs from California outlet - $1.63/pack +shipping and handling. No problem with small order and I could have ordered less. 800-670-7746. Thanks for comment on stapling - I was wondering how to attach to a rough wood surface.
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 22:58:34 EST Steve Simmons Merced, CA Gary S. and list, Gary you asked if any one knew about the history insect (Baygon) strip and if it was successful. I am going to include a post that I sent out Feb. 27 to the list about our use of the baygon strip here in Calif. I might add that Terri Jensen a wildlife biology major at UCD, was the young lady that did her masters thesis using this tape as a honey bee deterrent in wood duck boxes. She used several different products on the underside of the box lids and would put five pounds of bees with a queen in a box to see if they would vacate the box. If the bees did not leave the box with the baygon strip (1'X4") in less than 48 hours, the entire hive was eliminated. The other products did not stop the bees from attatching their honey comb to the box top. I also put in a later post that the Baygon strips were safe to handle unless chewed or swallowed, avoid contact with the eyes and wash your hands after handling the strips were the hazards on the box to humans. (Feb. 27th Post) Honey bees and paper wasps used to be a major problem in some areas here in California in wood duck nest boxes. I was inundated the first year with 25% of my boxes being taken over by honey bee hives and many boxes with paper wasp nests later in the nesting season. I was at a loss as what to do next, so I found a professor at UC Davis who was the head of the apiary dept. at the university and he suggested putting Tenn. Red Cedar strips on the underside of the box tops, to deter the bees from taking up residence in the woody boxes. It sounded good to me. If it would keep moths away, it might work on the bees. The second year with the cedar in place in 100 woody boxes, I had 30% of my boxes taken over by the bee hives. I finally had to turn to insecticides in very light doses applied to the underside of the box lids to start slowing the bees down. My mixtures were so weak that I still was getting a few bee hives in my boxes, but I worked out a formula just strong enough to stop the bees during the 1 to 2 month swarming period here in California. The good news is, that six years ago I switched to a new product to stop the bees and paper wasps from using my boxes and have not had a problem yet. It is an insecticidal strip that power and telephone companies put in their telephone line and power boxes to keep the wasps out. It does not emit any insecticide until a bee or wasp walks across it to activate it just enough to kill the insect walking across it. The strips come in a pack of six 1" X 4" strips that have an adhesive back. I do not use the adhesive back, but just staple it to the underside of the box top. I started using a full strip the first couple of years, but now use a 1"X2" strip each year. I have had 4 to 6% of my boxes used each year by Am. kestrels, screech and barn owls and have had no problems with the young fledging. In a bluebird box a 1"x1" strip should be more than enough to keep paper wasps and honey bees from using the lid of the box to build their nests or honey combs. The strip only kills the scout honey bees that check out the box and walk across the strip to set off the insecticidal strip. You can find out the closest dealer in your state that sells the insecticidal strip by calling 1-800-637-6047, Rainbow Technology Corp., Birmingham, AL. This insecticidal strip was a masters thesis project for two years by a student at the University of California at Davis on its effectiveness and safety for birds, before any of us in California used the strips in our wood duck boxes. The strips come in packages of six 1"x4" strips, and cost approx. $1.86 per pk. Cut into small 1"x1" strips would cost approx. $.08 per strip to be used in a bluebird box. It might be worth a try for those that are having problems with paper wasp. SS
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:28:59 -0800 Sounds less messy than soap or petroleum jelly. However in this area our paper wasps will use the inside sides of the box if the top is denied to them. I am hoping that the insect strips work. Supposedly these kill the wasp.
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 22:24:00 -0600 http://www.cdms.net/ldat/mp0R6000.pdf The above site will take you to the Material Safety Data Sheet on the chemincal insecticide BAYGON which is impregnated in tapes/sticks and used to keep paper wasps from building nests in various containers. Before you attempt to use such impregnated tapes/sticks, you should fully read the MSDS for this specific carbamate insecticide. You will need Adobe Acrobat Reader to read this site. Use the magnifying glass with a + sign to maximize the labels so you can clearly read them. After reading the MSDS on this chemical, my personal opinon is: DO NOT USE THIS CHEMICAL IN NESTBOXES! Baygon is in the family of carbamate insecticides. Carbamates and organophosphates are some of the more powerful insecticides used. Both carbamates and organophosphates contain cholinesterase inhibitors. Essentially, these are powerful nerve poisons and, in my opinion, should never be used in association with nesting birds. To understand how cholinesterase inhibitors work: http://ace.ace.orst.edu/info/extoxnet/tibs/cholines.htm We live in a world of powerful chemicals. It is prudent, particulary so when it comes to using any chemical around our nestboxes, to fully understand all the dangers involved. As a horticulturist with some 25 years experience, I have been trained in using some very powerful chemicals. To use any carbamate or organophosphate properly, you must dress in chemical resistant clothing, use a respirator, and chemical safe gloves. After using such a chemical, you should bathe using lots of soap and hot water. Knowing this, I would never ever consider using such chemicals around birds-----particularly young and very susceptible nestlings! In my experience, to rid a nesbox of wasps: go to the infested box very early in the morning when the insects are greatly quieted down by the temperature. Use a broad-bladed putty knife and simply mash the nest and the wasp with one movement. If you are properly monitoring your nestboxes, you should find the wasp nest when there is one to 5 individuals and they are quite easily squashed. Fread J. Loane
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:40:22 -0800 I just used an Ivory soap bar, and kept dipping it into water to make it easy to get plenty of soap on the wood. It helped, but some of the wasps just moved to the inside sides of the box which is why I am hoping that the insect strips work. If I only had a few boxes I would stick with soap, petroleum jelly, or the Reynolds Wrap idea.
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 01:58:59 -0500 ... I can only imagine that "eliminated" in your writing means killed. Any chemical strong enough to kill 5 pounds of bees in less than 48 hours in a large wood duck box will never be found in any of my songbird nest boxes, in any concentration or amount. Gary Springer
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 03:40:23 -0500 R_C Walshaw wrote: I just used an Ivory soap bar, and kept dipping it into water
to make --
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 12:43:34 EST I remember reading an article in Science Magazine several years ago that a study showed, regarding human beings, that the more insecticide families were exposed to, the more likely a child would come down with leukemia. Since we use animals to test the safety on humans I will extrapolate and say when we have the data on humans we can most likely extend it to smaller critters who have a shorter life span. Ther weren't studying use of chemicals on farms, they were studying the obsessive cleaning by mothers who would use all sorts of anti bug sprays around the home on a regular basis, on floors that babies were crawling on.. - the higher the use, the higher the rate. Tina
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 13:17:15 EST I am with you, Fread! I would take my nestboxes down before I would expose "my" birds to any more nasty chemicals than they are already encountering in the environment. Like you, once I recognize a wasp/yellowjacket problem, I go out during a cool morning, armed with a spatula or pancake turner. However, I do sympathize with Steve's honeybee problem...especially since I am allergic to honeybees! Dee Warenycia (warbler5"at"aol.com)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:06:13 -0600 http://www.ag.ohio-state.edu/~ohioline/hyg-fact/2000/2075.html Dear Dave Cook: The above site is worth reading to familiarize yourself with this wasp. http://www.socioweb.com/~msmvcd/yellojk2.html The second site has considerable information about trapping these insects. If I were in your position, I would remove the nestbox for a week's period of time, causing the insects to relocate. This would be easier than attempting to close off all possible entry points of the nestbox. Purchasing traps with insecticide-laced bait as an attractant does not seem feasible in this situation. I did not find your posts to be offensive and no offense was taken. We are all here to learn, then share in the learning. The more information we have at our disposal, the better choices we can make. With all the variables we deal with in Bluebirding, we graciously welcome all input on any subject. Fread J. Loane
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 03:15:29 -0800 Hi Fred, I have been using the squash method for three weeks, and still the yellow jackets return to roost. My nestbox site is about 20 miles away in a remote area, so I cannot monitor on a daily basis. Since yellow jackets do not secure a nest to the inside roof of the box, I do not think soap is the answer. I appreciate your insights on using Baygon. My plan was to place a 1x1 strip on the top of the box with a staple and then remove once nesting began. The manufcturer seemed to indicate that the poison would work on contact and on insects not in direct contact because of their special sensitivity. If anybody has any other info on yellowjackets and nonpoisonous ways of dealing with them please let me know. The traps may not be an option since it is a regoinal park, and they may have policies regarding this. Also I would like to apologize to the gentleman who contributed the info on insects and their physiology. I was feeling a little too testy yesterday when I when I fired off that email. The only thing that I have learned as my life goes on is how little I do know. So pardon my outburst, and PLEASE keep the cards and letters coming, as they say... David Cook ...
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:41:04 -0500 Hi all - I just met someone tonight who is an exterminater. He told me that yellow jackets are considered hornets - that wasps have a segmented body joined by a narrow thread, and hornets are shaped like bullets. He doesn't know anything about birds, but said if a bird box was infested with yellow jackets, then he would bet money that the box is too tight. He said yellow jackets usually build underground but often use walls and other cavities in man-made buildings, but in either case, they need darkness. He suggested leaving more space between floor/top and sides so that some light could penetrate the box, making it unsuitable for a yellow jacket colony. He also suggested that the best way to get them out of a box is to simply prop the top or side open (carefully!) for a few days, forcing them to evacuate without using poisons of any kind. Might be worth a try next time yellow jackets invade your nest boxes. Dot
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 19:53:16 -0800 Be very careful in working with them as their venom is very potent. If you have ever been sensitized (stung multiple times) by them any additional stings could be life threatening. They are the biggest reason why many people have to carry bee sting injection kits. More people die in this country from insect stings and bites than from poisonous snake bites.
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 20:15:41 -0800 I agree with the early AM putty knife method and I use it. However on a practical basis you don't get to every box of an 80 or 100 or 200 box trail often enough to keep the wasps from driving off birds, especially chickadees. This is why we are looking at alternate methods, and I hope that the 1" pesticide is not too potent medecine. It bothers me to see a little chickadee work days to build a moss and fuzz nest and then have to abandon it because of one female paper wasp.
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 00:55:01 EST Dear List, I am sorry if I got many of you upset over my post using the baygon insecticide tape as a bee and wasp deterrent. I am under the impression and still am that any insect that enters the box has to walk across the strip to activate the baygon on the strip. I should have added that in May and June hundreds of earwigs and stink bugs roost (for lack of a better word) between the cleats and the front and back of the box top where there is a 1/4" to 3/8" of space. These insects are only several inches away from the baygon strips and seem to be very healthy with no dead ones on the bottom of the box. Spiders are always in the upper 1/3 of the box almost every time I open the box tops and are in good shape. This leads me to believe that very little if any baygon is released into the air space of the box, or there would not be any earwigs, stink bugs or spiders in the boxes. When bees enter the box, they attach themselves to the top of the box between the two top cleats to start building their honey comb and the wasps use the top of the box to build their paper nest and that is where the baygon is placed. Bees and wasps seem to be to be the ONLY problems eliminated from my boxes in the last six years. (Spiders, ants, earwigs and stink bugs are still there in abundance. I might add that the only bees killed are the scouts which enter the box and pace off the size of the top area, are killed, and do not report their new find back to swarm of bees. Occasionally I find two or three dead bees in the bottom of the box presumed to be the scouts. I hope I don't sound like I am defending the baygon strips, but they have worked very well for me for what I had intended them to do. I have worked the last 27 years on my wood duck project, and would not want to do anything to harm my birds nor cause anyone else to harm their birds. Steve Simmons Merced, CA
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 06:46:19 PST ATTENTION: The latest issue [Volume 9/3] of this excellent magazine contains an article entitled "The European Paper Wasp: A New Threat To Cavity-nesting Birds Is Coming" by Eugene S. Morton. The author is with the Conservation and Research Center of the National Zoological Park of the Smithsonian Institution. The information in this article will be of considerable interest to bluebird trail managers and to those who monitor the nest boxes of all cavity-nesting species. Further information on the article and the Purple Martin Conservation Association can be obtained by e.mail pmca"at"edinboro.edu or from the PMCA website http://www.purplemartin.org or by FAX: 814/734-5803. Dean Sheldon, Huron County, OH/NABS Board
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:18:52 -0500 While inspecting and cleaning nest boxes this spring, I came across several with piles of Yellow Jackets in them. Some moved slightly when I tried to sweep them out of the box. This is the first year I believe I have ever found them in boxes. As someone suggested, these boxes were all tight and very dark inside as the holes drilled in the tops of the sides are only 3/4 inch. Up to now the only bees I have found in my boxes are wasps, a single individual which has a small paper nest usually fastened to the top of the inside. I didn't notice these yellow jackets during the nesting season and think they may have taken over the boxes possibly in the fall. However, does this mean that they have just found a good nesting site and may be back? My experience with them has been that they are very aggressive and could come boiling out when I might least expect them. What do you think? Thanks for any suggestions. Vivian ___________________________________ Vivian Mills Pitzrick 18806
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 20:41:02 -0800 Kevin Putman, Yuba City, CA Although I've not used Bagone insecticidal strips (I've been lucky enough to have had very few problems with bees/ wasps), I'm familiar with the Baygone saga here in CA. Terri Jensen, the grad student who did the studies with Bagone, sought a solution to a very big problem of bee invasions in Wood Duck nestboxes. Steve S. mentioned the subsequent success he has had using this product in his Wood Duck boxes (there are others who have had success as well). To my knowledge, there have been no detrimental effects for the ducks in such boxes. If there were obvious problems, I guarantee you it would show up in a project like Steve's--probably the most intensively researched wood duck project in the country over the years. Practically every aspect of wood duck ecology has been / is being studied here, including an ongoing study of duckling survival--really cutting-edge stuff. With that said, what's good for ducks in duck boxes may not be good for bluebirds in bluebird boxes. We just don't know. How could problems result? If an insect activated the Baygone strip during an active nest. Is that a problem for Wood Ducks? Apparently not. Would it be a problem for bluebirds? Some things to consider: Wood Ducklings leave the nestbox within 24 hrs of hatching, so they wouldn't be directly exposed for an extended period of time as developing bluebirds (disregarding egg exposure during the incubation period). Also, bluebird boxes are much smaller, so occupants would be much closer to the insecticidal strip. Finally, I'd guess that smaller passerines, like bluebirds, would be more sensitive to chemical exposure than a lumbering wood duck hen--bluebirds having a much higher metabolism, etc..
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 21:50:03 -0800 Kevin Putman, Yuba City, CA Paul: you say that you've found wasps and bluebirds coexisting in the same nestbox. I've never found (and I'm talking about paper wasps) this here in CA. Every time a paper wasp takes over a box the bluebirds will have nothing to do with that box, I presume because the wasp defends it. I use the same type of side-vented (at top), side-opening nestboxes that you described. Have others found paper wasps / bluebirds (or any other birds) together in a box at the same time? Maybe these wasps out here are more aggressive.
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 09:37:32 -0500 Hi, Dean, I checked the Internet and found quite a bit on the paper wasp as well as Yellow Jackets. The latter are the dangerous ones in nest boxes and can even be lethal to us checking them. Perhaps this should go to the whole line.... Vivian ... Vivian Mills Pitzrick 18806
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 08:09:16 -0800 (PST) Hello everyone, I just checked my nestbox right outside my house. Mr. and Mrs. have been hanging around it all morning. I felt because I couldn't see because the nest is so high in the box. One egg was there. She laid it between dawn and 10:00. Since this is the first egg should I: go ahead and put my Noel guard on, and reduce the nest height? Thanks in advance for any responses. Jim this an EAstern BLuebird egg and should be dated 3/26. =====
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 07:22:30 -0600 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas Finally getting rain but still 15" behind "normal" rainfall. Entrance holes: They should NEVER be allowed to reach the 1&5/8" round hole size! Research from all over the US and Canada shows starlings will use these size entrance holes. Research across the country with Purple Martins is reporting MANY Starlings from different areas are using Oval entrance holes as narrow as 1&3/16" wide x2" long. Check out the chat lines for Purple Martins! Honey Bees/pesticides: Steve is having the same problem with Honey bees as we in the south are having with the fire ant. Some loss is acceptable on nestbox trails. Honey bees and fire ants are NOT native to the US. Changes in import quotas on honey have made it more profitable to rent hives of bees than farm for honey. Mismanaged hives swarm regularly. They PREFER a large cavity with an entrance hole low down in the cavity. New wood duck boxes with raised roof designs will work in areas where the cool night temperatures will drive out the swarms in search of a better place to attach their combs. California maybe too warm for this. To track the "killer" bees spreading across Texas and the south, honey bee swarm "traps" (a two gallon pulp fiber flower bucket) are hung from trees and a bee pheromone (sp) is sprayed inside them to attract all swarms in the area. These are then poisoned and shipped off for testing to determine if they are African strains. Can these traps be used in California and swarms sold for profit or collected by bee keepers? I spent the weekend in Dallas competing in the Texas daffodil show and if California is like Texas, thirty years from now, Steve's nestbox trail will be under pavement. Natural selection of birds filling the "void" man is creating will be filled with the House Sparrow, Starling and Pigeon. Falconer's children will be racing pigeons, not hunting with birds of prey! I do not think the Baygon strip should be used in nestboxes for bluebirds for control of paper wasps but I maybe forced to use some sort of pesticides on poles of a similar nature to stop fire ants. The wood duck Baygon "experiment" seems to be following all of the known routes of testing in a "wild" environment but should not be duplicated by the majority of us since we do not have access to labs and testing equipment. If nestboxes are not available for nesting we lose birds so at some point we have to "experiment"! Off to work! KK
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:54:08 -0800 A small group of us ran a nest box trail yesterday. The fellow whose boxes we checked has several (IIRC; 3) boxes infested by wasps. As on my trail, and others around here that I know about; wasp no_bluebirds! He's repeatedly squashed them. They simply regroup and re-enter the boxes, seemingly repopulating themselves as they go. They apparently do not subscribe to the much ballyhooed, "... can't we all just get along?", theory of species interaction. Best regards, ...
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 12:37:58 EST First I do not SELL the Wilson PVC box. I have never had paper wasp in the PVC box but have had some in the few wooden boxes. I take the roof off and put a piece of aluminum foil on the opening and then put the roof back on.When I have had yellow jackets in the PVC box it is always on the mounting screws or bolts and I just put some Vaseline on that screw and no more stinging things. We also found that a spatula work very well for kill them and for checking the nest when necessary. Bob Bob Wilson
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 12:50:42 EST Dusty and the group, I ran a fenceline trail of 15 nestboxes 2-3 years ago. I had high hopes for this trail when I saw WEBL (western bluebirds) perched on the roof of one of these nestboxes as I left for home after putting them up! A month later, I started monitoring...and quickly found that weekly monitoring was just not enough! Every time I checked, there were paper wasps (as many as 3 recognizable species) inside these nestboxes. By the time I got the wasps "under control," the WEBL and TRES (tree swallows) already had nests established elsewhere. No birds ever nested in ANY of these nestboxes, so I took them down the following winter and tried pairing these nestboxes with my other trail at this site, which followed a shady, oak tree-lined creek. My successes there were much better...
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 07:34:07 -0800 I intended this for the list. Here in California we seldom find yellow jackets in nestboxes. They normally build there nests in rotten rootholes in the ground. They are definitely dangerous and aggressive toward anyone that steps on their nest. The paperwasp is the normal occupant of nestboxes and is relatively benign to humans but definitely deters secondary cavity nesters. On a couple of occasions I've seen bald hornet queens overwintering in nestboxes. They are, of course, very nasty but seldom seen in nestboxes. All of these buggers can be lumped together as Vespids (family Vespidae). Our Oak Titmice are nesting here in central California foothills. Spring weather has the WEBLs actively looking for nestsites, too. I just paired two boxes for a monitor who had blues harassing a titmouse who'd already taken up residence. Now she has space for both blues and tits. Hatch Graham, El Dorado County, CA ...
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 20:00:28 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA Dean and Barry have worked hard to get permission and a copy of the article, The European Paper-Wasp: A New Threat to Cavity-nesting Birds Is Coming! written by Dr. Eugene Morton and published in the PMCA newsletter. It is a MUST read article, as this Paper Wasp is far more dangerous to us than our Common Paper Wasp and is overtaking Common Paper Wasp habitat. They also may pose a threat to butterflys.....We'll be finding them in our nestboxes - so watch out and read the article. Dr. Eugene S. Morton is a senior scientist at the Smithsonion Institution in Washington, DC. He is also a scientific advisor to the PMCA (Purple Martin Conservation Association). He is well-known for his landmark work with Purple Martin downsong and on DNA fingerprinting in martins. You'll find the permanent home of the article on the REFGUIDE "at": http://birds.cornell.edu/bluebirds or www.crosswinds.net/~bluebirdguide/ or directly at it's own site on the REFGUIDE "at": http://www.crosswinds.net/~bluebirdguide/paperwasp.htm
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 13:21:43 -0500 Hello! Paul from cold still CT- Want to thank all who enjoyed my "Burroughs' excerpts. And must say; yes, I did know it wasn't real poetry, but in today's writings, its as close to poetry as one can get! And Gary; It always amazed me how the old naturalists shot so many of the things they admired so much! I guess when it came to a chance to ID a bird, the gun was the only good way to do it. I believe they only did it for this purpose, and not shoot all they came across. Audubon of coarse HAD to shoot his specimens, in order to paint them. As an artist myself, I understand this, for he had no museum skins (or only some) or photographs to use, as the modern artists do today. About the Euro paper wasps; We began seeing them here in CT about three years ago. They look just like the brown species, but have the yellow markings of a hornet. My first encounter was having them build a mammoth paper nest on the roof of my pigeon loft. As I once went in to grab a bird, one of these critters stung me in the face! I have had brown wasps in here for years, and other than investigating me, they never sting. This alien intro though, is very aggressive! (boy, another import from Europe!) Why do we only get their worst introductions! Well we have sent them a few ourselves, like the Canada goose, mallard and ruddy duck; all of which they are having trouble with as well. Anyway; last year, I had this yellow wasp build large nests in both my rain gauge and a Gilbetsons chickadee box. They filled the bird box completely with their nest within a month; and the nest was so big in the rain gauge, it stopped working till I cleaned it out! This is one nasty insect, and I'm sure we all will eventually find out!! About Tree swallows: Yes, one of my favorite occupants also! These birds were made to please us humans; They eat all kinds of noxious biting bugs, and if compared to the Bluebird for usefulness to us humans, they would win hands up! Also, if I may, i would like to second the request to have all use large fonts, so we don't have to squint, and get close to the screen to read it. And please, let us know where you are!!..........Paul from CT
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 08:52:45 -0400 I devote nest boxes on trees to the flying squirrel. The other day I found some sort of lizard in a nest box, and, hoping it would nest there, quietly closed it. New and interesting visitors are welcome to my nest boxes any time. I wish I could be so lucky as to have a few nest boxes full of honey bees. Gary Springer Writing from the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains in
Northeast Georgia, further north than most of South Carolina
and a bit of North Carolina
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 08:36:31 -0700 Hi Dusty: In my experience the bumblebee (don't call them BBs -- I thought for a moment you had crushed bluebirds ;)) will definitely deter the chickadees and titmice from nesting and since the egg-laying urge is upon them they will quickly go elsewhere and build another nest. Whether or not you remove the old nest has little relevance. It may well be too late for another CBCHickadee. If a WEBLuebird wants to use the box, they will rearrange or remove the fur and build their grass nest atop the rest. Hatch ...
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:49:47 -0400 Good Morning Mr. Blecher and Mr. Hatch: Mr. Blecher, you asked the wrong question Sir! You should have asked: "Should I have killed the bumblebee?" I note that you are in California, where a very large proportion of the vegetables consumed in this country are produced. It turns out that, in order to produce, most vegetation must be pollinated. It further is a fact that one of the principal pollinators of vegetables, and THE pollinator of most beans is the bumblebee. No bumblebees...no beans. I am a birder. Otherwise I would not be here on this site. However, Sir, never kill a bumblebee! They are essential to us as pollinators. Have a good day, Claude ~At Dandridge, Tennessee in the foothills of The Great Smoky Mountains~
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 13:11:42 -0700 Cute! I sure hope that the California bean population won't be too dramatically decimated by the loss of that one bumblebee. OTOH; if you're going to roost in one of my nest boxes, you'd better be: 1) on a short list of "guests", Thanks for the chuckles... ...
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:24:44 -0700 Linda Violett Bluebird Bob, perhaps the heavy plastic might keep out wasps and I was hoping they would keep out honeybee swarms. Last year honeybees swarmed into a box with an egg laid so I was hoping the 1/2 plex roofs I've been adding to my trail would be a deterrant to honeybees. Apparently not. Last weekend I found one of these unused 1/2 plex roofed boxes taken over by honeybees. You could look down at the plex roof and see their comb-building process. I like bees and save the swarms for others to keep. But I don't want them taking over active bluebird nests, so I'll be making some Vaseline trips during the next week. ...
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:18:29 PDT So many of the current posts are dealing with nests or nest
boxes which have been abandoned by their would-be occupants.
Wherever there is a situation of abandonment, it would pay the
trail manager to look deep inside the box at the rear corners
of the interior. Oftentimes, paper wasps [not the European Paper
Wasp] will build a small flower-like nest which is suspended
on a stalk from the roof of the box. When that happens, birds
will not use the box or may abandon the nesting until the wasps
and their nests are destroyed. This wasp invasion may be responsible
for the situation in which a box is being very actively used
by bluebirds and then, for no apparent reason, the bird activity
surrounding the box ceases. My experience has shown that these
wasp nests are also an important factor inhibiting the use of
nest boxes by many, if not all, cavity nesters. This is "old
hat"
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 06:55:38 PDT Please...be careful...when opening nest boxes and/or reaching in to remove unoccupied nests. The reason for the nest vacancy may be the presence of a Yellow Jacket nest burrowed down into the bird nest. These wasps will occupy empty nest boxes as well. I got hammered 4 times yesterday while making monitoring visits. There seem to be many more Yellow Jackets here in north central Ohio at this time of the year than has been the case in prior years. Usually they tend to show up in August. Dean Sheldon, Huron County, Ohio/just south of Lake Erie
Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 21:03:48 -0700 Good evening from Central New York. Just a warning to watch for the wasps in your nesting boxes. Checked some of my tonight and 3 boxes had a wasp or hornets in them starting a nest. The boxes were not occupited by any birds but you need to check them and get them out. I sprayed with Raid and tomorrrow will remove the nest and also check my regular filled boxes of tree swallows and the bluebird nest. They all were greased with vasline on the tops, but the wasps and hornets were building on the back and sides. I believe the hot weather has brought them out in full force. Last year my empty boxes were loaded with full nest of yellow jackets or hornets , really bad. I know the birds will not nest and will leave the nest even with eggs if the wasps and hornets get in them. Have a good evening. Elaine from Central New York.
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 06:47:12 EDT orig.Message For the plastic, I just cut squares out of a rubbish bag, and
staple (Ordinary household stapler, seemed to hold fine)to the
inside of the top. I have top-
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 06:47:22 EDT -------------------------------------------------------------- By the way-- I think these inviting painted black holes work for the wasps, too! I roused one wasp out of the box, and then watched it repeatedly (I mean at least a dozen times) try to get in through the painted hole on the side! Rhonda Watts
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 07:06:46 -0500 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas Collecting nests for blow flies: If you have used sprays in your boxes be sure to note that on the collection bag! If you have placed a chemical barrier to the flies (and bluebirds) by treating with "raid" early in the nesting cycle this will change the results of the blowfly research! By all means send in the Robin nests along with the House Wrens! What about those Song Sparrows too! Just be sure that the young were old enough to fledge before sending in to Terry Whitworth. If the babies die and are infested with meat maggots these are not needed as this is a different species of fly. KK
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 22:34:28 -0500 Elaine mentioned spraying wasps with Raid which I believe is
a No No. I use a caged bird spray for ants, repeating wasps,
etc. which has been approved
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 06:29:13 -0700 Guess I just learned a lesson about Raid!! Just to let you
know I didn't spray any nest--just empty boxes---but lesson
well learned!!! Thanks for the information. ( Does this mean
I just failed my first test?) Expect baby bluebirds in about
3 days. Beautiful weather here in Central New York.
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 07:44:40 -0500 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas A TINY burst of the caged bird spray is lethal to all insects in our nestboxes. The pyrethrum sprays are very short lived and normally are a "contact" killer with minimal residual effects. Even in my hundreds of nestboxes it has been years since I felt it necessary to use any spray inside any box! Please learn from my mistakes! KK
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:26:30 EDT Hello to all Thanks for any replies. REL
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 08:34:28 -0700 Wendy Guglieri ... I had the same problem with 3 nestboxes near my house, and each week for 2 or 3 weeks killed the wasp and removed the small nest. Now have WEstern BLuebirds ready to hatch in one, and Ash-Throated Flycatchers ready to hatch in another. So be diligent, and patient. It can happen. wg
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 21:29:21 EDT When I checked the web-site with info on the European paper wasp recently, it dawned on me that I may have been squushing one or more of these on a regular basis. Smaller than usual with some stripes, was the description. However, the site didn't have a picture of the insect, just the paper nest in a super-gourd. Does anyone know of a book, or a site, whatever, which would have a picture of the angry little critter itself so I can make sure before I get all hot and fretty about alien invasions? Rhonda Watts
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 22:30:23 -0400 Rhonda, you could try the following sites: http://www.uky.edu/Agriculture/Entomology/entfacts/struct/ef620.htm and http://www.conservation.state.mo.us/nathis/insects/mowasp/wasp2.htm which have pictures of paper wasps and other bees, wasps and hornets. I bookmarked these last year when we had a long thread on bees and wasps on PFW-L. They both have pictures. ... Katherine
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 13:01:09 -0400 I have a Bluebird box from the old trail that has a hornets nest underneath of it. I'm not supposed to use pesticides on or near the box, so what else is there to do? This nest of hornets ran 6 full grown men out of a field they were sowing nearby. Do I spray then retire the box forever, or what? Lin Towler
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 17:42:19 -0400 Lin, et al, Next day, keep a close eye on it, and if there's still some action, douse it again the next night. This is what I would do. Maybe some Listers will offer a better
idea. This technique has always worked for me.
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 22:06:54 EDT Sounds more to me as if the hornet nest is UNDERNEATH the box,
rather than in it-- Lin, was that what you meant? I have had
the same thing this year, a first- time (there's always something).
After my first nest fledged (4) I took down the box to bag the
nest, dismounting and ground-tying trusty assistant Isaac. Lin's sounds like a full-sized nest, though. First, I'd put on the best running shoes I had g, or in my case be sure I was on Isaac and NOT young Cricket. Then wait (if possible) for a cool early morning (as in before sunrise, coolest part of the 24 hrs) to sneak up and squirt as Bruce says. THEN RUN LIKE H**L!!! Rhonda Bruce Burdett, Sunapee NH
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 22:43:40 -0500 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas Dursban:I knew they were going to take this off the market as I talked with a researcher last year about it. (Several more well known insecticides will be pulled in the next couple of years.) It does worry you when this has been labeled for years as "Safe" to use inside houses for many household insects. Literally millions of dollars were spent checking to make sure this was safe around humans over about 20 years. Now they say it causes brain damage in children along with many other long term side effects. Hmmm...Cedar was hotly debated on several lists about possible danger to the birds....I can just see Gary Springer whacking me upside the head with his cane in about 40 years and saying "SEE I TOLD YOU NOT TO USE CEDAR FOR THOSE NESTBOXES" :-) Glad the list seems to be in a "Happy" mood this week. KK
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 07:29:41 -0700 Nancy: My guess would be that it was on the ceiling of the box and fell off into the nest. Nicholas ...
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 09:49:30 -0700 Hello all, Koby Prater
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 07:51:57 EDT -------------------------------------------------------------- |