Titmice (Part 1)

The entrance hole "recommended" for most titmice is 1&1/4". This is small enough to stop all bluebird species from entering easily. This does not stop all House sparrows! I do not know if 1&1/8" will allow all titmice species to enter a nest box. Tufted titmice in this area do not seem to be able to enter 1&1/8" or just the newness of a guard bothers them. They will not "choose" a 1&1/4" entrance preferring the 1&1/2" but will use the 1&1/4" entrance hole after it is added. These MUST be round and not oval to exclude the bluebirds and house sparrows. Bluebirds will enter and nest in a box with a 1&1/8" slot! House Sparrows are smaller than bluebirds when entering box entrances. KK Those in the west please comment on your species of titmice!

...Regarding the possibility of the Tufted Titmouse laying more than one egg per day:

In my experience, determining when the first eggs were laid by a  Tufted Titmouse would require removing and sifting the nesting material to determine if any eggs were in the nest box.  Not only is the nest material very loose and the eggs small, but the Tufted Titmouse buries the eggs in
the nest material.  So, while I do not have the scientific background to know if laying more than one egg per day is possible, I do know that without taking extraordinary means during monitoring, it is unlikely you would know there were eggs in the nest box until there were several.  And, I  strongly
recommend that the nest not be disturbed to determine the exact number of eggs in the nest while early in the egg laying phase because the eggs are very fragile.

Gary Springer

...Thanks for all the info about titmice (Is that the correct plural?). I live in Nevada so I see the Juniper Titmouse (erstwhile Plain Titmouse) all the time. I was hoping that I would have a pair nesting in one of the boxes this year. They showed a lot of interest in one earlier, but didn't nest. This box is near the feeders, so the interest might have been related to looking for seeds, rather than looking for nest sites.

I'll have to look through the "Best of Bluebird'l" site to see what you all have written about boxes used by Titmice. I'd be interested in knowing what habitats are preferred by the Titmouse, and what kind of boxes they prefer (if any). I think our western Oak-Juniper-Plain Titmouse is slightly smaller than the eastern Tufted Titmouse, and might be able to use a smaller box. They certainly can use a box with a smaller opening than the 1 9/16" the Mountain Bluebirds prefer.

If the Juniper Titmice (are they JUTIs) nest in my yard (and they must, they are year-round residents and are always around), then they must be using the natural cavities in the junipers. I'll have to start surveying my trees for nests to find out exactly who is nesting and when etc. Are there other listers that live in Juniper-Sage Country? Who lives in your trees?

Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 05:52:56 -0700
From: Hatch Graham birdsfly"at"innercite.com
Subject: OATI

Dee answered your questions about Oak Titmouse pretty -- Why Oak? Because it lives in and about oak trees and, to my knowledge, no where else. I've seen them in other trees but there is always an oak of some species in sight.

Here in California we have a number of oaks throughout the state. The OATI is most common in the blue oaks, coast and interior live oaks, valley oaks, and scrub oaks. It is uncommon in the Calif black oak (Kellogg oak). Likewise, the JUTI is closely associated with the Pinyon-Juniper forests of the arid southwest. No one tries to distinguish them by sight, though the guide claims the JUTI is paler than the OATI. Both lack the black on the head and the rufous sides of the eastern TUTI. From what you folks tell us on the List, their habits are similar.

A proper OATI nest is a three layered affair: a base of moss gathered from the base of the oaks, next fine grass, then a thick topping of fur. The cup is deep and usually is filled with a wad of fur as a plug while the hen is laying. When she's out foraging she puts the plug in over the eggs. The plug gets incorporated into the nest when she starts incubating and you may be surprised to find 7 eggs in a nest that looked empty the day before. Neat little bird and has declined 35% in the last 30 years because of urban sprawl in California. I personally care more for them than (ahem) a blue thrush I know of.

Hatch
In Central California....

Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 12:28:14 -0400
From: "Katherine S. Wolfthal" kate"at"nirvana.ziplink.net
Subject: Fledging titmice

Yesterday was, according to my count which I believe to be accurate, the earliest possible fledging date for my TUfted TItmice.

We were out of town, so I was delighted to see, this morning, that the parents are still going back and forth, removing fetal sacs, etc.

I hope some more experienced monitors than myself will be able to answer the following questions:

Does the weather influence fledging dates? (It's been nasty here for the past few days - cold and rainy).

Is there any way of knowing when the babies are about to fledge? Do I have to watch the box 24-7 in order to see them go, or will the parents give some hint of when this is about to happen? Do they always fledge in the morning?

Will they all fledge at once, or might some go today (or yesterday? - except I haven't seen anything that looks like a fledgling) and some tomorrow?

--
Katherine
Weston, MA
-------------
kate"at"nirvana.ziplink.net

Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 10:30:50 -0400
From: "Katherine S. Wolfthal" kate"at"nirvana.ziplink.net
Subject: Dern titmice!!

These titmice are driving me bats!! They refuse to fledge, or at least some of them do. I have been watching assiduously since Sunday (day 16), it is now day 18 and the parents are still going back and forth from the nest, feeding, removing fecal sacs, etc. Sometimes I think I see a young'un flying about but then I think it's a "helper", because they all have the black forehead patch and they don't seem to be wing-quivering or begging for food or follwing adults around. None of the coaxing or peeking procedures described so eloquently by Linda Violett. Sometimes I think some of them may be out, and other times I don't, and meanwhile I have been neglecting work, cooking, laundry, marketing, and my cats are out of kibble... But none of the usual wing quivering or begging for food; The parents are in and out, in and out... It's cold and clammy outside and I'm chilled to the bone from sitting out there with my binoculars.

So I'm going to do some work and some marketing, and you'll see... when I come back, they'll have all fledged without me!!

--
Katherine
Weston, MA

Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 11:22:21 -0400
From: "Katherine S. Wolfthal" kate"at"nirvana.ziplink.net
Subject: Happy Fledge-day Titmice!

Needless to say, while I was sitting up here writing "Yuck!" and the rain was pouring down in torrents and cascading over the gutters and down the windows, those dern titmice started fledging. Rain or no rain. At about 8:00 when I finished writing and reading, I went downstairs and was privileged to see three of them exit the box. It happened pretty quickly once they started: a peek, another peek, squiggle through the hole (tiny feet clutching the rim) and out.

I'm pretty sure those were not the first three, and they may have not have been the last, but I had to prepare breakfast and couldn't watch continuously.

It was a real thrill to see them leave... my throat choked up and I blinked back tears. I stood there rooting for them, whispering "Go!" Two flew out straight, but the last one turned around as though he wanted to go back in and therefore took off in a sort of twisted trajectory. Too many trees and bushes to see where he landed, but I think he's probably ok because I didn't hear or see any commotion. Later today, if it clears up, I'll go up there and make sure there are none on the ground. There's lots of thick cover, so I can only hope the little ones aren't getting too wet. I guess when you gotta go, you gotta go.

I think the nest is empty now, but I'm not entirely sure because I saw an adult come back, peek in and then leave. Marvin said "Are you going to watch that box all day?" I guess I will, off and on. Tomorrow I'll go up and check to see if there are any dead nestlings :-( so I can get an accurate fledgling count. I know there were 8 hatchlings.

Question: Will the parents abandon a nestling that is reluctant to fledge?

Now the adults are taking mealworms from the window feeder - so glad I have them, because insect food must be hard to come by on a day like this. I haven't seen the fledglings again, but I imagine I will when (if ?) the sun comes out.
--
Katherine
Weston, MA

Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 14:01:09 -0400
From: "Katherine S. Wolfthal" kate"at"nirvana.ziplink.net
Subject: Empty nest

Today, with a sense of dread, I went up on the hill to check the nestbox from which the TUfted TItmice fledged yesterday morning. I had last monitored on May 15 (expecting them to hatch within 4 days), and at that time was unable to get an accurate count because the chicks were all hunkered down, but I knew there were 8 hatchlings. I put off the reality check all morning, certain that, given the cold, rainy weather, some would have succumbed. I opened the box, and the nest was ......... empty!!

So mama TUTI is to be congratulated on a job well done. I have seen neither bill nor feather of them since. I just hope they didn't catch pleurisy yesterday and that she brings them back to the feeders before they're all grown up.

--
Katherine
Weston, MA

Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 14:23:01 -0400
From: "Katherine S. Wolfthal"
Subject: Titmice - 2nd brood?

I have not seen the titmouse kids since they fledged on Wednesday, and I've seen very little of the adults. But I just saw two adult titmice peering into the nestbox, the same one that was used before but which has since been cleaned out.

Is it possible they may be considering a 2nd brood? Should I put out more cat fur?

I was under the impression that, this far north, they usually only have one brood per season. It's true they started early this year, but the fledglings are only 3 days old. Could this mean all the fledglings have died? I can hardly believe that, having survived the nestling stage, all eight would have succumbed to other things in only two days!

Any expert timouse landlords out there?

--
Katherine
Weston, MA

This morning the titmice were back at their old box again. Old home week? Maybe. But they were also checking out the box next door (about 25 feet away, about the same height, on another tree but facing west rather than south) which has not yet been used by anyone. I haven't seen them bringing nesting material, but my eyes are still peeled...

Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 11:43:28 -0400
From: "Katherine S. Wolfthal" kate"at"nirvana.ziplink.net
Subject: Clutch size question

I checked on the TUfted TItmouse nest yesterday, at midday. On Thursday when I last checked, there were 2 eggs in the box, so yesterday I expected to find four eggs and no bird in the box. Instead, I found the titmouse on the nest, and there were three eggs. This seems to suggest that three eggs are all there will be. I will try to check again today if I see the female leave the box, just to make sure. Since there were eight eggs the last time, (which is above average for TUTI), what is the implication of the small clutch? Different, younger female, or same female but less energy/investment in 2nd brood?

--
Katherine
Weston, MA

According to the book, The Backyard Birdhouse Book, the clutch size of a tufted titmouse is 3 to 9, usually 5 to 6. The incubation period is about 2 weeks and is done only by the female.

,Paul ...

I checked again this afternoon, being sure to wait till the TUTI was off the nest, and there were five eggs. So clearly, my count was wrong yesterday. And yet, I could *swear there were only three eggs there, because she was interrupted and therefore did not cover them, and I looked *very carefully and even felt gently with my fingers. So, yes, maybe she was in the process of laying the fourth egg at noon yesterday when I flushed her - but isn't that sort of late in the day? Or - and weren't you the one who suggested this, Barry? - maybe she laid two this morning? Well, as more than one person has said, birds don't read the bird books. Or maybe - and most likely - I was simply wrong. It's been known to happen. So now I will have to check again in a few days to try and determine the final number.

This nest is much less "refined" than the previous one in the same box, with much less fur and other soft lining material; mainly just moss and leaves... and a piece of cellophane. As I mentioned in an earlier post, it was built in only 3 days. But I think it's about the same depth as the other one.

Another question: In counting days to hatching, do you start counting incubation from the day the last egg is laid, or the day after?

...

Katherine
Weston, MA

Yesterday Cathy Cowan in California mentioned, "I've seen some postings suggesting that it might be uncommon to see titmice in BB boxes? We've had the boxes up for 4 years, and have had oak titmice nesting in them every year."

Here in Mountain City TX a clutch of Tufted Titmice was in the process of hatching this very afternoon. What an awesome experience to take a quick peek in the PVC nest box on my front lawn and see the miracle in process. The first babies for me this year!

Tufted Titmice and Bewicks Wrens (not House Wrens) are the most frequent occupants of my "cavity nesting birds" nest boxes. :-)

Pauline Tom
Mountain City (no mountains) TX

Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 21:59:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Karen Nisbett mknisbet"at"yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Titmice in Bluebird Nestboxes? You bet!

Titmice commonly nest in my bluebird houses, too. They have taken one by our barn for the last several years. I watch them gather dog hair in the backyard and then fly off to the house up the hill, trying to time their 'swoops' so they can land in the opening of the house and not splat against the wall ;-) Chickadees and Carolina Wrens are also frequent residents in my bluebird boxes.

You guys in Texas seem worlds ahead of us here in the mid-West! I haven't noticed any nesting going on yet.

Karen
Central MO near Rolla

Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 06:15:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Horace Sher hjsher1"at"yahoo.com
Subject: EABL chasing away Titmouse from nestbox

Greetings...I have 2 boxes (front & back boxes) that the EABL have been interested in.. on & off for a couple months. Also, the Tufted Titmouse have been interested in the same boxes. The Titmouse has started a nest in the back box now. On prior occasions I have seen the EABL chase away Titmouse & Chickadees from these 2 boxes, thus leading me to believe that the EABL will pick at least 1 of the boxes. But the last few days I get a feeling that the EABL is losing interest in these 2 boxes, since at least the Titmouse has managed to start his nest in the back one.The 2 boxes in question, I think are good ones..location, etc. (Actually, the back box was occupied by a EABL last year)...Question? Has anyone had experience or observations watching their Bluebirds seriously chasing away Tufted Titmouse after the Titmouse has started a nest? And the EABL ending up nesting in the claimed box. We've had a good discussion about the Chickadee interaction, but what about the Titmouse..& while we're at it..what about some other nice competitive birds, such as the Nuthatch, Carolina Wren, P. Warbler... Anyone with some observations, please let me know..Thanks...Horace in NC.

From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 3:46 AM
Subject: Tufted Titmice

I asked earlier if any one has ever seen tufted titmice nest in natural cavities. ... There sure are plenty of them around.

Gary Springer

Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 08:12:30 -0500
From: "MJShearer" eshearer"at"mediaone.net
Subject: Re: Tufted Titmice

...I did have a Titmouse nest in a natural cavity, but it was too high and well-hidden to tell much about it. I watched the adults come and go feeding the young whom they brought to the feeder after they fledged.

Bluebirds are now building in a box about 15 feet from one in which the chickadee is incubating 6 eggs. How far apart are your 5 chickadee nests? It's my understanding that they are very territorial and require about 1/4 acre per nest.

Mary Jane ShearerTucker, GA

Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 16:14:36 EST
From: TomGaryH"at"aol.com
Subject: Bluebird/Titmouse/Hole Restrictor

Hi Folks,

Yesterday and the day before I watched a pair of bluebirds spend some time harrassing tufted titmice at a nestbox in which the titmice had been building a nest. The box has a 1 1/2 inch hole which had been protected by a 1/4 inch thick hole protector made from industrial-grade, vulcanized rubber, conveyor belt material. Each day the bluebirds spent at least 20 to 30 minutes at a time on the box and hanging onto and poking their heads into the entrance. An unoccupied, recently refurbished and painted, wide-bodied Peterson with a small oval entrance is about 50 feet from and in sight of the titmouse-bluebird box. Bluebirds had played at this Peterson, going in and out, during the beginning of the winter until a red-bellied woodpecker enlarged the entrance and used the box as a night roost.

Today the male bluebird seemed determined to dislodge the titmouse. I didn't want that to happen because I figured the nest was very near complete and could even have an egg or two. I decided to put a hole restrictor on the box. Rather than use a quick fix restrictor I decided to replace the conveyor material with a commercially made 1 1/4 inch metal portal.

I backed a pickup truck next to the box so I could stand on the lowered tailgate. A titmouse was in nearby blooming azaleas and I heard it as I began the work which would require removal of the one-piece, forward-sloping roof. I worked as fast as I could. Just about the time I had gotten all the roof screws loose I heard what I'll call "stomping" noises coming from the box. These noises subsided quickly. The entrance was wide open, but the bird stayed in. I repositioned the roof toward the rear to temporarily eliminate the overhang so I could work on the front. As I was removing the conveyor material I thought it would be better if the bird stayed in the box until all work was complete and the white pickup truck was removed from the immediate vicinity of the box. So, I put an "X" of masking tape over the hole after neutralizing some of the sticky part so as to lessen the likelihood of feather damage if the bird tried to squeeze out of the hole.

A quiet hand-cranked drill - remember those - was used for the pilot holes for the screws that would hold the portal to the box. The portal was put on, the roof reinstalled and the truck driven away. I removed the tape as gently as I could and walked into some shade about 60 feet away. A couple of minutes later the titmouse came out then perched about 20 feet from the box. I was feeling pretty good about everything until about 10 minutes after the titmouse came out of the box.

Those bluebirds must have watched all the activity. They returned to the box and took up their stations. The male bluebird got into the box through the 1 1/4 inch portal. Well, that surprised me. Is that news to any of you experienced folks? I watched until he came out. The female bluebird may have gotten into the box as well. I didn't stay to confirm that.

I figure I did what I could to save the titmouse nest. Last I saw of the bluebirds they were going in and out of the Peterson. That's encouraging. It will take a little time to see if the titmouse abandons.

Tom in NW Florida

Hi Tom and all, As you have learned a eastern bluebird can squeeze in a 1-1/4" entrance hole. this has been known for some time but it was learned that 1-1/2" size was best suited for them because of wear on feathers. the Titmouse can use a 1-1/8" entrance which generally keeps larger birds out. I don't suggest you go thru that same process of changing the entrance size again but rather let it play out now as it will. the Bluebirds may still choose your other box since this one has a tight entrance. Lets hope they know to pick the other box. if the titmouse stays after your disturbance he may win out yet. keep us informed on the progress. Joe Huber Venice,Fl.

Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber
hubertrap"at"webtv.net

Joe and All, A quick and final report. The female Bluebird began building in the Peterson box while Mr. Blue sings and watches. Titmouse nest building activity that was temporarily halted for installation of a smaller entrance to the box has resumed. Luck was with us - this time. Tom in NW Florida

Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 10:21:52 -0500 (EST)
From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber
Subject: Re: Bluebird/Titmouse/Hole Restrictor

Tom,thats good news. I had a feeling that the bluebirds would end up in the box with a normal size entrance. my concern was that the Titmouse would abandon the box you placed the 1-1/4" restrictor on while they were using it and one inside. They don't tolerate as much manipulation with a nest box as bluebirds do. since they are back you should be in the clear. The only fear now would be that a house sparrow comes since they can also enter the 1-1/4" entrance. keep your eye out for them unless you are in a area free of them. Enjoy the birds. Joe Huber Venice Fl.

Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber
hubertrap"at"webtv.net ...

Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 12:07:20 -0700
From: "Dusty Bleher" dusty"at"fsinc.com
Subject: Re: Tufted Titmice nesting preferences

Sounds like a perfect spot-on observation, Gary. I've got my second Titmouse nesting this year. And it too is in one of my very high hanging boxes. I used that level only because it was the only place that I could reach on that tree. The tree was selected for it's spacing from the other WEBL boxes. I hadn't connected height with location. But for the moment, I'm 2 for 2. Seeing that I have another WEBL box that's been unused for two seasons (except by a woodpecker that made the entrance hole 3X3), I'm going to see if I can get another one to use that box.

FWIW; I've got 2 eggs in the first OATI box...(:-)!

Dusty
San Jose, Ca.

Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 14:28:13 -0600
From: "Pauline Tom" bluebirds"at"austin.rr.com
Subject: Titmice: 3 adults bringing food to nest

Three adult Black-Crested Tufted Titmice are bringing food to the nestlings in the nest box on my front lawn. (Young will fledge mid-week) It's both parents and who else? What's the relationship of Adult #3?

Thanks!

Pauline Tom
Mountain City (no mountains) TX...

Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 07:00:16 -0500
From: "Wright, Merlin C." mcwrigh"at"nppd.com
Subject: TITMOUSE TERRITORY

Dear Friends, As I recall from last year there was a person who wrote in telling us how much area was claimed by several different birds and again, as I recall, a bluebird needs approximately 1/2 to 1 acre (~43000 sq ft) and the TITMOUSE needs 45 acres. Since I didn't believe that, I paid more attention at home and sure enough, that is the bird that shrieks PETA, PETA, PETA, pause and repeat all during nesting season and it has started now for this year. PETA, PETA, PETA is how one of my books describes it. I am not sure about the 45 acre statement but I believe that if it were at the center of a 45 acre circle, it could be heard throughout the circle. No wonder you can't get one to use your nestbox.

Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 11:19:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Horace Sher hjsher1"at"yahoo.com
Subject: Tufted Titmouse & EABL

Greetings to everyone..I currently have my 2 backyard boxes with TUTI nesting in them..2 different pairs I think..30-40 ft. apart. The front yard box (a 3rd) has had EABL interested in it on & off for a couple months. Last week they (EABL) did bring in a little nesting material into that box. Actually yesterday 2 males fought almost to the death over that box & the nearby watching female. So the EABL pair led me to believe that they wanted that box. But today the Titmouse have been bringing in their nesting material to that very same box. So I'm wondering what's up with the EABL. On a couple other occasions in the past the EABL did chase away the TUTI from that box. Question to people with TUTI observations & experience..would you remove some of or all of the TUTI nesting material to help the EABL or just leave it alone & hope? As I've mentioned, I already have 2 other boxes in the backyard with TUTI nesting in them. Apparently the EABL didn't choose either of them. So what's going on with the front box? I would think the EABL is big enough to claim this box from the TUTI..but now I may have doubts..Also, does anyone know the nesting cycle of the TUTI? Is it basically the same as the Chickadee? ..egg laying, incubation, brooding, nestling & fledgling period.. Thanks for any opinions & info...Horace in NC.

Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 21:55:33 -0400
From: "Katherine S. Wolfthal" kate"at"nirvana.weichi.com
Subject: Re: Tufted Titmouse & EABL

Horace Sher wrote:

Question to people with TUTI observations & experience..would you remove some of or all of the TUTI nesting material to help the EABL or just leave it alone & hope?

It is STRICTLY ILLEGAL to remove nesting material from a TUTI nest. TUTI are just as rigorously protected as bluebirds and just as deserving of our respect and consideration. Leave their nests alone and let them duke it out.

Also, does anyone know the nesting cycle of the TUTI? Is it basically the same as the Chickadee? ..egg laying, incubation, brooding, nestling & fledgling period.. Thanks for any opinions & info...Horace in NC.

I have had TUTI nesting in my boxes for the past couple of years now. They can lay up to 8 eggs, one a day, usually in the morning, and they often hide the eggs under nesting material when they leave the nest. Eggs are incubated for about 2 weeks (more if it's cold). The nestlings fledge after about 15-16 days (again, more if it's cold. It took my first brood of TUTI about 17 days last year). In the north, TUTI are supposed to have only one brood, so I presume that the 2nd family nesting in the same box was a different one from the first, and may have been less experienced. The nest was built in a hurry, and 6 eggs, rather than 8, were laid. In both cases, all fledged successfully, and left a clean nest.

--
Katherine
Weston, MA

Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 21:07:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Horace Sher hjsher1"at"yahoo.com
Subject: Re: TITMOUSE TERRITORY

Greetings.. Merlin, it may have been me last year that said I read it in a bird book that the TUTI's territory is 45 acres. Actually, I did read that, but the book had a misprint. I'm sure the decimal point was printed in the wrong place more like .45 acres, because I have 3 pairs of TUTI nesting in my yard..2 in the backyard & 1 in the front. My yard is a whole lot smaller than 45 acres..more like 1/4 acre....Horace in NC.

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 10:11:13 -0700
From: "judymellin" judymellin"at"netzero.net
Subject: Re: TITMOUSE TERRITORY

Per John Eastman's book Birds of Forest, Yard and Thicket, he writes of the titmouse: Breeding territories typically comprise about two to five acres, depending on habitat.

In Birds of Field and Shore, he says of Eastern Bluebirds: Males establish territories of 2 to 25 acres, depending on habitat resources and bluebird population density.

Hope this helps!

Judy Mellin
NE IL.

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 13:43:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Horace Sher hjsher1"at"yahoo.com
Subject: EABL building on a Titmouse nest

Greetings to everyone..Has anyone ever seen a Bluebird take over a Tufted Titmouse nest that was in the process of being built & eventually claim & nest in the box? If so, did the Bluebird build right over the Titmouse nest or remove some material & then build? Thanks for your
reply...Horace in NC.

Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 15:34:09 -0500
From: Kathleen Oschwald nestbox"at"1starnet.com
Subject: Re: Tufted Titmouse & EABL

At 11:19 AM 4/2/01 -0700, you wrote:

snipped

Question to people with TUTI observations & experience..would you remove some of or all of the TUTI nesting material to help the EABL or just leave it alone & hope?
...Horace in NC.

I personally would not disturb the titmouse nests, and I'm know it's not legal. The tufted titmouse is a protected songbird and these are not "dummy nests" like male house wrens build to stuff all nearby nestboxes.

Many people on this list would give anything to have one choose one of their nestboxes, myself included. I consider you fortunate indeed!

Kate Oschwald
Sumner, TX..

Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 13:32:14 -0400
From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net

Subject: Tufted Titmouse

The Tufted Titmouse nesting in a nest box just down over the hill from my house would be upset if I didn't mention her in my posts today as I did the bluebirds, chickadees and carolina wrens.

I've mentioned the sounds they make during monitoring of the nest box before. But this morning, incubating Mrs. Titmouse must have been in no mood to be messed with.

I whistled a couple soft tones, lightly tapped on the box a couple times, carefully twisted out the screw that holds the side of the nest box closed, then began to open the box very slowly.

All of a sudden, when the box was open just a crack, it was as though the box burst into life with a loud

THUD/HISSSSSSSSSSSSSS THUD/HISSSSSSSSSSSSSS THUD/HISSSSSSSSSSSSSS

again and again at least 10 times, and it continued loudly as I gently closed the box, folded my step ladder and walked away..

It REALLY sounded like an angry striking snake on the inside of that nest box. Anyone hearing it without knowing what was making the noise would have definitely jumped clear of that box in a hurry for fear of getting snake bitten.

Gary Springer

Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 22:46:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Horace Sher hjsher1"at"yahoo.com
Subject: Fledging TUTI today... a magnificent day

Dear people on the list...I feel like telling this short story about my 2 TUTI boxes located about 15-20 ft. from my deck. My 2 backyard TUTI boxes are located about 30-40 ft. from each other & each about 15-20 ft. from the deck where I can observe almost everything. Well, today most of  the nestlings in these 2 boxes are 16 days old, & as I was looking at the boxes from the deck with & without binoculars..I started seeing a nestling in each box poke its head out through the opening while flapping its wings & still being inside. This went on for about 1/2 hour. Then 1 flew out & to a nearby tree. One of its parents flew right to him. They both flew to another higher nearby tree & disappeared on me. But what happened a little later on at the 2nd box, I feel as though it was a once in a lifetime occurance for me. Same thing as 1st box. Nestling poking it head out, etc. Then it flew out onto the nearby ground & hopped around..then didn't move. Meanwhile, a 2nd nestling is poking its head out of the 2nd box, etc. & guess what? (Remember, I'm still standing on the deck.) It flew out of the box & straight to me & landed on the deck rail, right in front of me. I gently picked it up, & I helped it perch on my right forefinger... a 16 day old TUTI fledgling..can you believe this? After letting it stay there on my finger for a few minutes to see if it would fly away..no, it wouldn't. So I took it down the steps from the deck & brought it right next to its sibling which was still on the ground near the box..& I left to go back up on the deck. So these 2 siblings hobbled & hopped around.. flapping their wings for at least 20 minutes, & then both flew shakedly up to a nearby treesy bush. I saw a parent go to them, & they disappeared on me. Well, not seeing anymore activity around the 2nd box..I went to check the 2nd box gently to see who was still there. And guess what..that little nestling that flew right to me which I had thought was #2...apparently was the last of the 5 fledglings to leave the 2nd box. Well, it's now about 8:00 PM & getting darker. At the 1st box, 1 or 2 nestlings had fledged, & as I gently checked that one, there are still 2 or 3 nestlings still in the box for the night. A parent came near that box about 25 min. before dark & sounded a call which I interpreted as..stay put little ones..I'll be back in the morning to get you.  Well, so far this season, I don't have any nesting EABL like last year..only 3 boxes of TUTI & 1 box of Chickadees that fledged last week. (I also saw the CACH fledge, too.) I have to say that this TUTI & Chickadee experience is just as good as my last year EABL experience...Hope everyone is enjoying their Bluebirds....Horace in NC.

I gave my parents a bluebird house last year, and this year a nest was built. It didn't look like a bluebird nest, and there were chickadees, titmice and nuthatches all going in and out of the house, so we didn't know who the "owner" was. On Sunday, we discovered it was the titmice and there are 3 baby birds they are feeding. I don't know a lot of about titmice and their nesting habits -- I did see an earlier post about titmice being very timid. I'm just looking for any comments/information that this knowledgeable group might have on titmice that I can share with my parents. If you have resources to direct me to, that would be great, too. I'd like to read up on them. For instance, is the time to fledge about the same as bluebirds -- or shorter/longer?

Thanks in advance.
Kathy Rauschenberg
Alpharetta, GA

From: "MJShearer" eshearer"at"attbi.com
Subject: Re: Titmice
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:52:31 -0400

Hi Kathy,

I just checked the three nestboxes in my yard and discovered the baby titmice are hatching today. Here's some titmouse information that I found on http://www.natureserve.org/

**************************

Reproduction Comments: Clutch size is 5-8 (commonly 5-6). Sometimes 2 broods per year. Incubation, by female, lasts 12-14 days. Young are tended by both parents (and sometimes young of first brood), leave nest at 15-18 days.

Non-Migrant: Y

Palustrine Habitat(s): RIPARIAN

Terrestrial Habitat(s): FOREST - CONIFER, FOREST - HARDWOOD, FOREST - MIXED, SHRUBLAND/CHAPARRAL, SUBURBAN/ORCHARD, WOODLAND - CONIFER, WOODLAND - HARDWOOD, WOODLAND - MIXED

Special Habitat Factors: STANDING SNAG/HOLLOW TREE

Habitat Comments: Forest, woodland, scrub, and partly open situations with scattered trees, from deciduous and mixed woodland in the northeast to oak-juniper scrub, mesquite, and riparian woodland in the southwest; also wooded parks and residential areas. Nests in natural cavity in tree, or in old woodpecker hole, or in artificial cavity such as pipe, bird box, 1-27 m above ground (Harrison 1978).

Food Habits: FRUGIVORE, GRANIVORE, INVERTIVORE

Food Comments: Eats insects, spiders, small fruits, and seeds (Terres 1980); the latter two items eaten most abundantly in colder months

**********************************

You could also check enature.com or the Cornell site for more info. Although these birds "know" me and feed at feeders on my deck every day, they really didn't want me looking into their nest. Unless I see signs of a problem with the babies, I won't open their box again. Hopefully, I'll get to see them fledge....

MJ
(Mary Jane Shearer; Tucker, GA)

Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:39:24 EDT
From: "Rwatts" rwatts"at"mymailstation.com
Subject: Re:OT: Titmice

If you have resources to direct me to, that would be great, too. I'd like to read up on them. For instance, is the time to fledge about the same as bluebirds -- or shorter/longer?

The Birder's Handbook gives fledge time as 15-18 days. It's a great book--ISBN 0-671-62133-5, paperback ISBN 0-671-65989-8.

Rhonda Watts
Wilton, N.H.

Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 22:59:23 -0400
From: Haleya Priest mablue"at"gis.net
Subject: TUTI question

Haleya Priest Amherst MA
I have what I believe is the beginnings of my very first Tufted Titmouse nest! This is one of my original boxes with an oval hole.....

I didn't put a restrictor hole on it. I've heard TUTI's are very shy. Is it too late now to put the restrictor hole on it? Nest was just started.

THANKS folks for all your great advice! Any is appreciated as I am very green in this department. :-) H

To: bluebird-l"at"cornell.edu
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 23:10:05 -0400
Subject: Re: TUTI question

I waited till the nest is done and one egg before I put the restrictor hole on the box. If I do it before this , the TUTI will not come back. The TUTI is a nice bird to have.

Maynard Sumner
Flint, MI

Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 02:50:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Daniel Sparks dansparks_47448"at"yahoo.com
Subject: Re: TUTI question

After installing a restrictor hole--the TUTI may continue nest-building un-affected or it might make them apprehensive to where they look for another nestbox.Who can predict?  It's your decision.

Dan Sparks
P.O. Box 660
Brown County Bluebird Society
Nashville, IN 47448

Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 10:36:38 -0400
From: "Seward, Elizabeth D.
Subject: RE: TUTI question

I'd follow Maynard's advice.  Once the TUTI have eggs they will not abandon the nest lightly.  You can monitor them as with the EABL's. Last year our neighbor's TUTI nest was totally soaked after a hard rain.  I removed the four or five day-old nestlings to a small paper bag filled with tissue, followed advice gained on the list, and placed shredded newspaper on the floor of the box, followed by dry materials (leaves and moss) similar to the TUTI nesting materials.  Replaced the chicks.  This was done in the early evening, and I did not see the parents return to the nest immediately.  Early the next morning I observed the parents feeding their young as usual.  My recollection is that they had 6 nestlings, of which 4 fledged.  Two were noticeably weak, and the parents apparently removed them from the nest after they expired (within the first week of hatching). 

Diane Seward
Potomac, MD

From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net
Subject: Tufted titmice/ entrance hole reduction
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 11:18:48 -0400

Hi Haleya,

I agree with Maynard..

Wait until all tufted titmice eggs are laid and the eggs have been incubated for a couple days before reducing the entrance hole to inch and a quarter.

I recommend this procedure for chickadees and tufted titmice for the reason Maynard gave.

The entrance should be reduced to inch and an eighth for chickadees if house sparrows are present.  Inch and a quarter is as small as the hole can be reduced for tufted titmice.

Gary Springer

From: LauraSue14"at"aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 14:57:44 EDT
Subject: Re: TUTI question

Hi Haleya,
I, too, have the first TUTI nest ever in my yard this year. They built in a modified NABS box with a 1 1/2" hole. They do seem very shy compared to Bluebirds. Yesterday I peeked in the nest which has 7 eggs and she was sitting tight. I quickly closed up the box and went away. Every other time I looked (twice, once when the nest was just completed and once when I discovered 7 eggs) she wasn't around. I don't know about the oval hole, and with all the posts lately about Starlings getting chicks out of that size hole, makes me a little nervous. I have 5 Bluebird chicks in a modified Peterson (Herb's design) with an oval hole. I don't see many Starlings around and this past week I have heard and seen a male HOSP chirping for a mate :-(.

This is the first time I've ever heard them in my yard. I sure hope he is a lonely male and moves on to the closest fast food restaurant!!! 

Laura, Marlborough, CT

From: "Lawrence Herbert" lherbert"at"4state.com
Subject: tuti ?
Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 17:41:13 -0500

Regarding modifying the nest box: since Tufted Titmouse have started building a nest I would leave it alone until after they have finished nesting. They seem to like it the way it is. That's my vote.
Good birding, Larry H., Joplin MO.

From: Jgandy8580"at"aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 10:48:24 EDT
Subject: Cigars are out in south Jersey

About 10:30 AM I spotted the female EABB out of the box so I dashed over and quickly checked it. Young are hatched, but they were pressed down low and I didn't take the time to count them. I can do that in a day or two and, anyway, I'll gladly take what I get. This encouraged me to check the titmouse box, in the wooded area on a tree about a foot in diameter. I hate to mention the subject of Tree Tanglefoot again, but I had that on hand because I used it on this tree as the only way to keep the field mice out of this box. Anyway, I was greeted by at least 5 tiny heads with wide open beaks. Again, I did not stay to count, but backed off quickly. Titmice must be used to me as I walk by within a few feet of this house 4-5 times daily. I was not 10 feet away watching them steadily return with food. Not used to having titmice and was totally surprised to see both go in box at same time. I think of my boxes as small, but I guess they seem large to titmice.

From: "ke4fej1" ke4fej1"at"email.msn.com
Subject: Help on Tufted Titmouse
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:06:39 -0400

Hi All, Just got a report we have 7 Tufted Titmouse babies...they were noticed today...don't know if they were there yesterday.

The Monitor wants to know....when the babies fledge...do the Titmouse return to the nest... or can it be cleaned out after they fledge? Or do we keep it in the box for a while.

I read somewhere that in the South they will breed a second time.

Don't know a think about these little fellows? Any help is welcomed.

Thanks Christy Sarasota, FL

From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber)
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 22:46:26 -0400 (EDT)

Subject: Re: Help on Tufted Titmouse

HI CHristy, The Tufted titmouse generally nests only once so when they finish fledging you can clean out their nest. You will still have time to get Bluebirds to nest afterwards. Joe huber Venice Fl.

Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber ...

Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 21:49:47 -0400
Subject: Tufted Titmouse question
From: "Haleya Priest" mablue"at"gis.net

Haleya Priest Amherst MA
What height do TUTIs like their boxes?...

Bill
TN

Haleya, (and all)...

I've had TUTIs nest in my Bluebird nestboxes about 5 1/2 feet high, and I've also had them nest in natural cavities 15 feet above the ground. They tend to be shy and really don't appreciate close monitoring when they're on the nest.

Mary Jane Shearer; Tucker, GA

From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net
Subject: Tufted Titmouse/ nestbox height
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 06:48:20 -0400

In my experience tufted titmice strongly prefer nest boxes mounted 8.5 feet over boxes mounted 6 feet.

But, so do the bluebirds.

The difference between bluebirds and tufted titmice is that most bluebirds will tolerate nest boxes mounted at 5.5 feet high while most tufted titmice will not.

Presently I have chickadee eggs in a nestbox mounted 14 feet high in the same box that bluebirds fledged from last year. There are three vacant nestboxes mounted 6 feet high within 40 yards of the higher box and all three have been vacant for three years while there has been almost full occupancy in the boxes mounted at 8.5 feet, 10 feet, and the one mounted 14 feet.. .

As someone wrote yesterday, nest boxes are mounted eye level to the advantage of the monitor, not the birds. House sparrows will nest in boxes only four foot high.

Gary Springer

From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com
Subject: chickadee and titmice
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 08:02:51 -0500

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
These are woodland birds and normally nest near mature woods for your area. They often will nest near a food source such as sunflower seeds. They often nest out in the open in regular bluebird nestboxes but will also use boxes of many different heights, many different sizes even under heavy tree canopy.

I had mentioned to the list previously seeing chickadees nesting in small vertical steel pipe down to 1&1/2" inside diameter.... Kate Arnold toured our trail several weeks ago and we saw a chickadee come up out of the top of a normal road sign pole and I told her they could not nest in this location because a 3/8" diameter bolt runs right through the center of the 2" inside diameter pipe just about 3" down from the top.....reducing the pipe entrance by over half....WELL checking nestboxes yesterday at another roadside sign I again saw a chickadee come out of the top of another road side 2" pipe....Here I am shinnying up the sign pole that is about 10 feet high and peering down into a dark, deep pipe only to see the chickadee has squeezed past the top bolt and has constructed a nest down about 15" deeper on top of the second bolt holding the sign to the pipe and has a tiny nest with four eggs.....

Oh did I mention this was a busy highway....A lady stopped and asked, "WHAT ARE YOU DOING????" Instead of lying I told her the truth and said , "I am checking out bird nests!!!" She ran her window up without saying a word and drove away like whatever I had might be contagious...." How many of these birds are falling down into water filled steel pipe in search of nesting sites? KK

Most of the time I get them at 5 ft.

Maynard Sumner
Flint, MI

Hi Haleya,

They prefer to nest closer to my wooded area, all of my nest boxes are about 5-6 feet high.

In my experience while monitoring them, the female usually stays on the nest, and sometimes she will hiss at you or bury her head in the nest material, I've never had one fly off the nest while checking. Their nest looks very similar to a BCCH. A lot of dry leaves along with moss. The babies are so cute when they get their little tufts on top! :)

In previous years I've counted 7-8 eggs per nest! Last year only two eggs!

Kathy Bennett
Licensed Wild Life Rehabilitator for Song Birds, Central NY

From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net
Subject: Titmice and box height
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:59:25 -0400

Gary Springer Carnesville, GA April 10, 2003

Dear Paul and all,

I'm getting tufted titmice nests in 15 to 20 percent of nest boxes.

About two weeks ago I put up two new Chalet nest boxes in the front yard of a person who gave me daffodil bulbs. Both are mounted at 8.5 feet using a single piece of one inch EMT conduit. Within ten days there were tufted titmice eggs in one and bluebird eggs in the second. This is a typical experience with the species most often alternating between bluebirds, chickadees, tufted titmice.titmice and brown-headed nuthatches..

There is mostly open pasture field in the area but they have several large oak trees around the house. I mounted the nest boxes about 30 feet from the drip line of the trees. In my experience putting nest boxes under tree branches of even huge oak trees found in country yards cuts down the occupancy rate dramatically. I have boxes mounted under huge oak trees where there are no branches hanging within 20 feet of the box. Occupancy rates in this setting are about one nest in about every 4 or 5 nest box years.

I've started experimenting with bat houses. The toughest part is the mounting. Putting them up 18 to 20 feet increases the odds of occupancy,. Bat Conservation International figures bats are subject to heavy predation and that is why they prefer to he high up or on the sides of a buildings. In areas of rocky cliffs they always select places that are very difficult to access, which are typically very high.

All my experience seems to show that while birds will nest in nest boxes mounted at 5 feet and lower, they, like bats, prefer to nest much higher..

Some have written that tufted titmice are nesting 2 feet to 5 feet high. While I know this occurs, is anyone having tufted titmice nest in 15 to 20 percent of nest boxes year after year with boxes mounted only 5 feet high? I suspect not. Further, even if this did occur, determining the height these birds prefer would require putting boxes at greater heights to see if the rates of occupancy by tufted titmice, or bluebirds, increased with the higher boxes.

In a post to this list Paul Kilduff indicated he experimented last year with nest boxes mounted on telescopic poles and that the birds seemed to neglect these boxes.

Paul, please let me know

1)how many boxes you elevated,

2)how high they are,

3) how far they are from the drip line of trees or structures

4) whether or not there were any nests in these boxes

5) are they mounted in such a manner that they do not sway or shake in moderate wind?

6) what kind of nest boxes were used.

In your post you suggested you think it was the additional height of the nest boxes that caused birds to ignore them. If you have the same experience this year, instead of removing the nest boxes, I would suggest mounting nest boxes at a lower height near the elevated ones to make sure the reason the boxes are not being used isnt' some other factor. And, to use a single 9 or 10 foot length of one inch emt pipe for a much sturdier mount. Once these are pounded into the ground the box will be between 7.5 and 8.5 feet high.

Thanks Paul.

Unless the birds are given an option at several sites to use a nest box mounted higher or one mounted lower within a few feet, no inferences can be made about the birds preference for nest box height.

Gary Springer

Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 12:19:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Horace Sher hjsher1"at"yahoo.com
Subject: Tufted Titmice baby birds disappearing?

Hi..I was wondering if anyone would know or have some good knowledge & experience why this is happening. Here's the brief senerio...A TUTI box had a successful egg laying of 5 eggs about 3 weeks ago. No problem with the incubation period or hatching. All 5 eggs hatched fine about 1 1/2 weeks ago. 5 hatchlings looked fine to me. 5 babies seem to be doing fine up to middle of last week. When I checked the box this past Wed., (They would be 9 days old.) I saw that a baby was missing...only 1. Other 4 looked ok. When I checked today, I saw that another baby was missing. Other 3 looked ok. They are 13 days old. What's happening? Is the mother removing her own babies? I'm not convinced that maybe another bird is stealing a baby. Anybody's similar experience?
Thanks very much. Horace in N. C.

From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber)
Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 22:55:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Tufted Titmice baby birds disappearing?

This sounds like the work of another larger bird. I am surprised you haven't found one of the baby chicks near the box. An example of how other birds can remove the baby Titmouse chicks can be seen on my web page below on sparrow control. There you will see baby Titmouse birds thrown out by HOSP. If they can do this just think what a larger bird can do. maybe a predator block added to the entrance would help,or do you have them now? Joe Huber, Venice, Fl.

Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber...

From: shewlett"at"earthlink.net
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: Nesting/Chickadee/titmouse

I've read that tufted titmice prefer natural looking nest boxes, those built out of a hollow log. I think they really prefer tree cavities, the only ones we ever had nest here at our house used a tree cavity in a large japanese maple in our front yard.

Steve
Framingham, MA

At 12:45 PM 2/23/04, crystal hill wrote:

I was wondering what is the ideal nesting site(s) for carolina chickadees and tufted titmice, I have read that they will build in a nest box?  Proper placement for the box, etc...

Crystal - Social Circle, GA - NABS member

From: JCGARRIOTT"at"satx.rr.com
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 3:48 PM
Subject: Chickadee/Titmouse

I have regularly had Black-capped chickadees nesting in a hollow log-style box hanging from an oak tree in my yard--I think almost every year for 15 or so years. They also use a nestbox that is on the sheltered house wall of my upper deck, but not as often as the Bewick's Wrens. Chickadees and B-C titmouses have both nested in bluebird style houses, mounted in the open on conduiit pipe for bluebirds. Jim Garriott San Antonio, TX

From: JOHN & BARBARA SIBIO, jsibio"at"comcast.net
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 8:17 PM
Subject: Titmice nesting

I've had a titmouse nest in a bird house that was hanging from an old oak tree.  It was an ornamental house, very small, and unused for years; then, a nest!  They were cute to watch as the tree was close to my patio and they didn't seem to mind us being there, as long as we weren't too noisy.  I also had a nuthatch nest in my second bluebird box.  It was further from the house than the one the BB's use, and there were some trees close to it which is why I think the blues didn't like it.  The nuthatch was more secretive than the titmouse, but we did get to see the comings and goings and enjoyed the chicks till they fledged.  I'm putting up a second BB box this week and hope to get the green tree swallows here; I see them often and they were very interested in the BB house last year. ... Barbara in Cloverdale CA

From: Daniel Sparks, b4bluebirds"at"yahoo.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 4:00 AM
Subject: Re: Nesting/Chickadee/titmouse

Steve, Crystal, and all, We have 350+ nest boxes mounted, and we normally get one successful TUTI nesting a year. Dan Sparks Brown County Bluebird Society Nashville, IN

From: Paula, PaulaZ"at"columbus.rr.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 9:09 AM
Re: Nesting/Chickadee/Titmouse

I have not had a chickadee or titmouse nest in any of my boxes so far, but my sister (northern Ohio) has. Two years ago, she had early nestings (before the house wrens came back) in two of her bluebird boxes. Both were mounted on top of fence posts with predator baffles. I would guess the height of boxes was around 6 to 7 feet. We could still peer in there to see them (my little sister is 6' 1" tall). The mother titmouse put on quite a show when we checked the nest. She stayed on the nest and was very vocal about the whole thing. The other box had chickadees in it. The difference in habitat and height of her boxes may have had a lot to do with it as well. Both her boxes faced open mowed grass, but had mature forest very close by. Both boxes are also very isolated from people traffic. My sister and I were the only ones to ever disturb them or even walk on the land where they nest.

Paula Z Powell (Central) Ohio

From: Jennifer Maxwell, jennifermaxwell"at"argontech.net
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 6:54 PM
Subject: Nestboxes for titmice McKinney/Greenville, TX

I've had at least 4-5 titmice nest in boxes the last 3 years.  We've had them in Peterson and NABS boxes.  Both in the open near a tree line, and in amongst trees. Jennifer Maxwell Greenville, TX

From: Keith & Sandy Kridler, txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 7:45 AM
Subject: birds building nests

...Chickadees and Titmice had completed nests already in 2 of the 3 nestboxes I checked at our house yesterday. (Both of these were about 5 feet off the ground mounted on metal pipe and both were hollow log cavities I made with a 3&5/8" diameter forstner drill bit and a milling machine. Last year we had seven pairs on about 40 acres nesting in 5 different styles of nestboxes from 4 feet off the ground to 12 feet.) All these boxes were close to mature woods for the titmice and chickadees. One of the main sources of food for baby chickadees and titmice is the canker worm or inch worm that feeds on hardwood trees in early spring. They also feed heavily on the leaf roller worm and a tiny web worm that attack Elm trees. These are all larva of moths. Nestboxes located near large numbers of elm trees are preferred nesting locations no matter what box style you use although these small cavity nesters use cavities down to 3"x3" any chickadees often will nest in 2" diameter hollow logs or smaller. ...

From: Lawrence Herbert, lherbert"at"4state.com
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 3:03 PM
Subject: TUTI to ETTI & BCTI

The other day we were discussing the 4 letter acronyms for our Titmouse cavity nesters. Tufted Titmouse TUTI has split with the Black-crested Titmouse race and are now two distinct species: Eastern Tufted Titmouse ETTI and Black-crested Titmouse BCTI. Our other three Titmouse, Oak, Juniper and, the gorgeous, Bridled Titmouse are the same as far as I know: OATI, JUTI AND BRTI. Good birding, Larry H. Joplin MO.

From: Crystal Hill [mailto:crystaljhill"at"msn.com]
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 7:42 AM
Subject: This morning...

Well the male EABB returned this morning unfortunately to the TUTI nestbox. I saw him perched right on top wing waving and singing. I did not see the female EABB. A little later I heard the TUTI alarm call, went to look out the window and observed one of the TUTI and the male EABB midair in battle I assume. They broke up rather quickly, the EABB perched a top the hook for the mealworm feeder chattering as if mad, the TUTI in the nearby Bradford pear tree, stiff as could be (looked scared to death). They just sat there. The other TUTI flew up as if to observe and sat. A few minutes passed and the EABB flew off. The TUTI just sat. One of them flew off and the one that was fighting went to the nestbox went in checked things out then flew up to the oak where the other TUTI flew up as if to check on his/her mate. I can't tell the sexes apart so I don't know who was taking up for the nestbox....All is quiet now......... Crystal Social Circle, GA

From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 8:51 AM
Subject: birds fighting over nestboxes Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas a cool sunny 50*F morning

When birds are fighting over nestboxes in your yard or along your trail then there is a shortage of quality nestboxes at sites they want to use. There may be wasps or other insects in some of your boxes when they go to inspect them for a potential home. The birds might see predators near some of the nest sites and reject these sites. We don't know why they reject some boxes in some locations so you just need to place different styles at different heights and utilize different floor sizes for the smaller birds. Try some of the smaller entrance holed nestboxes for the smaller birds. Remember that Chickadees will use cavities as small as 2" in diameter and bluebirds won't. Titmice will use cavities as small as 3" diameter (occasionally so will bluebirds) and Eastern Bluebirds will often use nestboxes 3&5/8" in diameter when there are MANY other sizes of nestboxes available in the same yard.

In three days members of this list have seen bluebirds kick out two families of chickadees and they probably will run off the titmice at a third spot. What we see is simply a larger stronger bird taking what it wants from a smaller more timid bird. These smaller cavity nesters are far more rare than bluebirds on nearly every nestbox trail. (This bullying is "natural" in the animal world and is common in humans when they think no one is looking!) Nestboxes spaced 100 yards apart in this area assure that bluebirds will continue to multiply and put even more pressure on the small cavity nesters for nestboxes next year. Pairing two nestboxes within 15 feet of each other in areas with high Tree Swallow numbers also ensures that these two species will dominate each location increasing their numbers for next year and creating even more problems for the smaller species each succeeding year. Be sure to add nestboxes in woodland areas adjacent to your "bluebird" trail to give the smaller cavity nesters an area to fall back on when they get driven from the "bluebird" boxes. KK

From: crystal hill [mailto:crystaljhill"at"msn.com]
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 10:10 AM
Subject: Nestbox ?

If I do put up another nestbox close to the TUTI how far a part should they be?

From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"tds.net]
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: Nestbox ?
I find that 15' between houses works well for me where I am.. Bruce Burdett, SW NH

From: Kate Arnold [mailto:bbnestbox"at"1starnet.com]
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 2:49 PM
Re: Nestbox ?--Distance to new nestbox At 10:10 AM

A recommendation I've received is 25 to 40 feet away (for another species to use.) Kate Arnold Paris, TX 100 mi NE of Dallas 33.6853N 95.6293W

From:[mailto:KCBSP"at"aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 12:07 AM
Subject: PA Bluebirds/Tufted Titmouse

... A simple but wonderful experience is that on this large trail of 83 boxes not all checked by me but with 4 other monitors we only have one titmouse nest.  And they love Linda Violetts hanging box.  I never take it down and leave it there year  around for these birdies  I forgot my lifter box last time and tonite I took it.  There were at least 10 of them in the tree right above it hanging out.   That makes my day.. just something that simple.   I noted it's higher than usual of course like GARY TELLS ME  :D  hi gary..    I concur.. How many really have titmouses or titmice.. which is correct?  :D   I don't think it's so common. Kathy Clark, New Cumberland, PA

From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: PA Bluebirds/Tufted Titmouse

Kathy, We have titmouses here.  Although this past winter, saw fewer at the feeders than usual.  Many years, they will use the nestboxes.  We also have many tree snags that they use - less hassle from the HOSP.   I've been wondering if their population had a turndown, but maybe PA has them :-)
      Dottie Roseboom
      Peoria    IL    (central)
      NABS member

From: Crystal Hill [mailto:crystaljhill"at"msn.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 5:29 PM
Subject: Sad Day :(

When I came home from work I decided to check the boxes just to make sure everything is okay.  I am so saddened to report that when I checked the TUTI nest there was only 2 eggs (out of six) in the box.  I snapped a quick picture (mom also added a small snake skin to the nest).  I looked around to see if I could find the 4 eggs.  I found 3 eggs under a nearby tree they were all cracked (I took pictures to document).  I did not remove the eggs from under the tree (did not know what I should do) I did not see mom or dad TUTI anywhere.  Hoping she comes back to the 2 remaining eggs.  And I am puzzled as to what happened, unless another bird is the problem (as the nest was undisturbed). So sad........... Not a good day at all. I checked on the CACH babies and all five are fine, and mom & dad CACH was around....... Okay veterns, I need some advice.... (as always I have pictures if anyone wants) ...Should I clean up the cracked eggs under the tree? Or leave them? I am sorry, I just don't know what to do......(I know there really is nothing I can do, but I put up the box so I feel responsible) Crystal Social Circle, GA

From: Kenny Kleinpeter [mailto:kpkmajk"at"cox.net]
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 9:46 PM
Subject: RE: Sad Day #2

Crystal, it sounds like a classic sparrow act. Clean up the mess – it will attract predators. Sorry. Sparrows are very, very bad news.

Kenny Kleinpeter. Baton Rouge, LA

From: Paula [mailto:PaulaZ"at"columbus.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 1:49 PM
Re: Sad Day

Crystal, Very sorry. Your post just preceding this one: "OT Wren" , is almost definitely your answer. You are a very observant birder and saw the culprit looking in the box. Common behavior for House Wrens (HOWR) when they enter a territory is to enter every hole they find and pierce and throw out any eggs they find there. They will eventually choose one of these boxes for their own nest. Although we can greatly discourage HOWR competition with EABL by siting boxes at least 40 yards from brushy or densely treed areas, the TUTI and CACH prefer these wooded areas for their nests so the HOWR is in direct competition with them.

Once you have a native nester like CACH or TUTI incubating eggs in one of your boxes, you can put an L-shaped piece of wood which blocks the view of the HOWR so he doesn't recognize the box as potential nesting (egg destroying) site. I have not done this myself yet, but have spoken with those who claim it is a successful deterrent. I may use such a guard with a CACH nest that has just been completed at my tree line - great CACH habitat, but I know HOWR would love it too. You might want to protect your CACH box and the TUTI box (if parents return) with one. The best way I can describe it is L-shaped guard is width of hole (so as to block its view). One leg of the L is mounted just above the hole with other leg of L blocking hole view. It is very important that the nesting bird has room to enter the hole from underneath - i.e. make sure you give them enough space (top leg of L must be long enough). Does any one else on list have link to show actual dimensions or drawings for this? Also, can any one tell me when HOWR return to certain areas in the country? I know they can be a dangerous competitor, but are they more aggressive when they first return to an area? I think it is important to remember that HOWR are native birds and should not be harmed in any way. Sorry again Crystal - now if we could just get the HOWR to selectively enter HOSP nests only, we'd have something going. Paula Z Powell (Central) Ohio

From: Bet Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 1:54 PM
RE: Sad Day #2

I didn't think a hole restrictor would work to exclude HOSP, because from what I read, titmice need a 1.25" hole, and according to Frank Navratil's paper on Minimum Hole Size for House Sparrow Entry (http://audubon-omaha.org/bbbox/nabs/fn1.htm) HOSP can get in a 1.25" hole. Bet from CT http://www.sialis.org/hosp.htm (HOSP management methods)

From: Snoopy [mailto:snoopy"at"wmis.net]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 3:02 PM
Re: Sad Day

Just a thought I had.... would a "sparrow spooker" also work to keep the HOWR away from the CACH or TUTI houses with eggs in them??? Joy in Michigan

From: Snoopy [mailto:snoopy"at"wmis.net]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 9:26 PM
Re: Sad Day

Maynard, do you mean it didn't work to keep the HOWR away, or that the TUTI OR CACH wouldn't go back inside after you placed it??? I sure hope it really does work for sparrows....on a house with bluebirds in it.... it's given me peace of mind and I hope that isn't all taken away from me. Has anyone had the sparrow spooker NOT work??????????? I have two rogue HOSP here now, and I am not having luck at catching them. Oh well they are just making my blood boil more and that makes me more determined. I will get those little buggers if it the last thing I do!! .... Joy in Michigan

From: Phil Berry
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 6:16 AM
Subject: Re: Sad Day #2

I have a HOSP nesting at a nearby school now in between two steel posts with an entrance hole of 7/8" and she has NO problem coming and going. She has babies in there and there is nothing I can do about it. I have always placed smaller restrictors on boxes with CACH and BHNU in them, but after seeing this, it is a waste of time and money.

Phil Berry

From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [ mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net ]
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: Sad Day

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas

If I recall this tufted titmouse box was the same box that about a week ago a bluebird was entering. Unless you see the four eggs being removed it is really hard to blame this on any one species! Bluebirds have been observed removing their own eggs without breaking them when the eggs were removed from the nestcup and placed on the top edge of the nest material. Titmice eggs are far smaller in diameter and would be easy for a bluebird to remove. Where exactly were the eggs found? Were they under a thick bush that a House Wren or House Sparrow might fly to upon leaving the nestbox? Were they under a limb of an open branched tree that the bluebird might use as a hunting perch?

There are species of woodpeckers that feed on eggs and baby birds of other species. Since the eggs were removed and not eaten this rules out jays, starlings and other predators unless the cracked eggs were emptied. When eggs or baby birds disappear always inspect the post or pole for marks of something climbing. Look at the nestbox for scratches or if hair or tiny feathers are stuck to sharp edges.

Look closely at any crime scene and inspect each egg for tell tale signs of how it was removed! House Sparrows often break into the eggshell to be able to grab and remove an egg. House Wrens though rare in Georgia have a different shaped beak and I believe they spear the eggs with a partially open beak and carry out the eggs and have been timed at removing all eggs in a nest in as little as 5 seconds an egg. There are MANY species of wrens in the south that might have happened to have been seen at the box as they flit around the yard! If you don't find nestboxes stuffed with sticks then you probably don't have House Wrens!

Placing a hole restrictor of 1&1/4" round diameter will NOT keep out House Sparrows but it will keep out bluebirds and limit jays, starlings and other flying predators from entering the nestbox. Flying Squirrels can enter this size hole.

You have NOT lost this nesting of tufted titmice, they will simply re-nest in a couple of weeks and try again. KK

From: Bet Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 10:02 AM
Subject: RE: Sad Day #2

According to Navratil's study,  only a 1 1/8" diameter stops HOSP entry....  or a 1 1/2" x 7/8" horizontal slot or a 7/8" x 1 1/2" vertical slot. Bet

From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 9:18 AM
Subject: tufted titmice Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas

Last year we debated as to how close chickadees and tufted titmice would nest to each other and their own species. Last week we had two pairs of Tufted Titmice still nesting down by our one acre frog swamp. One was in Gary Springer's Chalet nestbox with a front entrance hole thickness of 2&1/4" mounted on the dirt berm 10 feet off the ground and about 13 feet above the swamp waters.

This titmouse built on top of a bluebird nest before I could clean out the old nest. The second Tufted Titmouse is nesting about 50 feet away right out in the middle of the swamp in a nestbox made with cypress wood with a 1" thick front about 40" above the water level. A belted kingfisher uses the nestbox as a feeding platform to kill the crayfish it catches in the swamp. This flat roofed nestbox was really nasty on the roof before all of the rain we have continued to receive. Both of these nestboxes have 1&1/2" or 1&9/16" round entrance holes. These appear to be second nestings for both of these titmice as we had about 4 nests fledge here at the house early this spring. KK

From: PTom [mailto:ptom"at"austin.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 9:58 AM
Re: tufted titmice How close will titmice and chickadees nest to each other?

I've had Black-crested Titmouse and Carolina Chickadee nestings in nestboxes less than 5 feet apart, one at 10' high and the other at 6' high while another Black-crested Titmouse pair was nesting about 10 steps away. Ohhhhhh. Does this look like a Texas bragging contest?! ... Pauline Tom Mountain City (no mountains) TX

From: Joan Jernegan [mailto:jernegan95602 "at"yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 4:26 PM
Subject: WEBL on OATI Nest

Joan Jernegan, Auburn, CA

I'm a nine-year bluebirder; this is my 1st year on this listserve. I live in the California Blue Oak Woodlands of the Sierra Nevada foothills, at 1500 feet. I have gradually hung more boxes and now have 10 NABS nestboxes on my five acres of woodland. Each year I have mostly Oak Titmice (OATI), some Western Bluebirds (WEBL), a couple of House Wrens (HOWR) and last year I had my first pair of Western Flycatchers nest on my little trail.

I have never had any House Sparrows at all, and after reading your posts, I feel extremely lucky!

Question: I had an Oak Titmouse build a nest and lay six eggs about four weeks ago. No signs of incubation followed. A second OATI nest with four eggs appeared in a second box about 75 feet away last week. Weather has been cool and rainy and in the 50s-60s.

Just recently, I saw a WEBL fly into the first (6 egg) OATI nestbox with dried grasses. When I checked, it appeared that the WEBL was building on top of the OATI nest and eggs.

What do I do? Leave the OATI eggs? Move the OATI eggs to the other nestbox (making 10 eggs, more than I've ever seen fledge in one box) or assume the six OATI eggs are non-viable and remove them?

I love both the WEBLs and the Oak Titmice (which are declining even more rapidly than WEBLs in number due to the loss of their nesting habitat). I don't know what will happen if the female WEBL completes her nest on top of the OATIs and incubates al the eggs together.

Any suggestions or advice?

Thanks, Joan

...

I think that you're right about the first, older set of Oak Titmouse eggs. They are probably no longer fresh.

Here is what I would do. I'd let the Western Bluebird build their nest on top of the OATI nest and eggs. Then, when she has settled in with an egg or two or three of her own, I'd CAREFULLY remove the OATI nest from underneath her and GENTLY settle the WEBL nest and eggs in the bottom.

Here's why I would do it this way:

By letting her settle in with an egg or two, she would be very fixed to the nest. Removing the old eggs and nest would help reduce the chances of ant infestation and lower the WEBL nest in the box keeping them that much further away from larger predators.

The only other option is to just leave well enough alone and let the WEBL raise their family on top of the old OATI nest. Chances are that wouldn't hurt a thing either.

One thing NOT to do is to take the old OATI eggs and place them in the new fresh OATI nest.

You certainly have a nice assortment of cavity nesting birds on your place!

Good birding, Larry H. Joplin MO.

From: Joan Jernegan [mailto:jernegan95602"at"yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: WEBL on OATI Nest

Thanks to everyone who replied to my question about a western bluebird nest on top of a oak titmouse nest and eggs.

I want to apologize for inadvertently misleading anyone. When I wrote "I'm a nine-year bluebirder" I meant to communicate that I have been monitoring bluebird boxes for nine years, but have only joined the Bluebird-L list serve this year, so this was my first post, but not my first year with bluebird boxes. I was characterizing my level of experience with bluebird nests, not my age. I'm an adult, not an intelligent nine year old.

The nest box is in my back yard, but I work outside the home, so I am only able to check it on Sat & Sun, when I am home during daylight hours. I checked it again today, Sat April 16th and the WEBL nest is now complete, but does not yet have any eggs in it. The OATI nest is completely buried under dried grasses.

The six OATI eggs were all in the nest, and cool to the touch on March 27. The Western bluebird started her nest with the first grasses last weekend, April 9, and the grass WEBL nest on top of the OATI eggs appears to be finished today, April 16th. No WEBL eggs have been laid yet, but it's now three full weeks since the sixth egg in the OATI clutch was laid.

The second OATI clutch (in a box about 75 feet away) is now complete with eight eggs, and the eggs are warm to the touch, so I think they are being incubated. I suspect that the female OATI just abandoned her first nest and started a second nest in a nearby box.

In nine years of monitoring, have never had a nest abandoned with eggs in it, and another nest built on top before. I was trying to figure out if I could save the OATI eggs, but that doesn't seem to be possible. I assume that since the OATI eggs are under another 2+ inches of grass (the WEBL nest), even if they are still viable, they will not hatch, as they will not be warm enough.

The OATIs in the second box could not possibly raise 14 young (if I added the six abandoned eggs to their eight) in a NABS box. In my experience, eight OATI eggs are often too many to all successfully fledge. So I will just leave the OATI eggs under the WEBL nest.

If Keith Kridler (or anyone else who knows) could tell me where I could find data on egg viability, I would appreciate learning more about that.

Thanks for your help and advice,

Joan Jernegan

Greeting from Calif

TTM flies into the meal worm feeder to get a few morsels, while the Blues Dive Bomb him to stay away from the feeder, but goes out the other door. Now the Blues sit on the fence and holds a worm in his mouth. Blue flies into the box>>> while the TTM follows him into the box to get the worm!!! (6 hatchlings in their:)

This goes on all day long, when I feed them. I guess they are compatible?
they won't hurt each other, only to protect their babies!

I know they like the boxes here,( correct me if I'm wrong) can anyone give me the dimensions on a nest box for these cute critters? They are here every year...Is the entrance whole the same or smaller as a BB? Or send me a link to read up on these cuties. I didn't know TTM likes Mealies:) every book I've read, said nothing on mealies:(

We have Wetlands behind my house...so nice to NOT have a House behind us:)

So much nature, I catch everything with my spotting scope!!!! Love that thing, it goes everywhere with me as my camera does too:)

....

The situation does sound funny! I would think they are compatible. I usually see the EABLs in our back yard with Goldfinches or House Finches, though. We do have TTM and CACH, though, and I haven't witnessed any quarrels between them and the EABL.

Here is a link to birdhouses for different species:
http://birds.cornell.edu/birdhouse/bhbasics/refrchart.html#requirements (I hope OK to post this link since it is Cornell, if not, someone please let me know, and I promise it won't happen again).

I think any bird that eats insects loves mealworms! Birds and worms go together like peanut butter and jelly.

So far we don't have a house behind us, either, and it is nice!

Shawn in Sevierville, TN

From: Bet Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net]
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 3:26 PM
Subject: Video clip of titmouse hissing like a snake

http://www.sialis.org/titmousehiss.htm

Pretty interesting behavior. The tufted titmouse did this when I approached the box and continued when I opened it. This is the “mystery leafnester”

Bet from CT

Wow! I'm lucky the tufted titmouse that nested in my box just fluttered around my head! That was enough to encourage me to leave her alone. If she'd hissed and struck like that I don't know what I would have done.

Barbara in Cloverdale

From: Chris&Crystal Hill [mailto:crystaljhill"at"msn.com]
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: Video clip of titmouse hissing like a snake

Wow Bet, glad my Mrs. was content to just sit on her nest..... Was she actually hitting the side of the box to make the noise like striking? Is this a common behavior to imitate snakes?

Last year:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/cjhill/Chickadee%20Nest/41804.jpg

Crystal~Georgia

From: Bet Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net]
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 4:19 PM
Subject: RE: Video clip of titmouse hissing like a snake

Yes, this little drama queen was striking the side of the box with her beak. As you can see, the movement was very fast. Some titmice are placid, and either sit there and stare when you approach/open the box, or just fly away. Pretty variable.

According to my Wild Bird Guide (Tufted Titmouse by Grubb) not all that much is known about titmice since they are not terribly common inhabitants of nestboxes. He says incubating Carolina Chickadees and European Titmice have been observed making similar hissing vocalizations. Grubb speculates that the sound could deter an egg-hunting predator like a red squirrel.

Bet from CT

I have been looking, in vain, for bluebirds since I returned from my week-long vacation. This morning a pair of titmice were checking out the nestbox where the bluebirds just fledged last week.

I've had titmice nest in an ornamental birdhouse, but never in anything as large as a bluebird nestbox! I'd be delighted; they are such cute little guys and we have lots of them here.

In the meantime, I'm still scanning for blue.

Barbara in Cloverdale, CA

From: MJ Shearer
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: Side-openers

Hi KK and All,

I have both side and front opening boxes, but I prefer the side-openers because
I usually have a couple of Tufted Titmouse and Brown-headed Nuthatch nests
each year. Those birds seem to panic and flutter around when I catch the mother
inside, and I'm always afraid she might injure herself, the nestlings, or damage
her eggs. If she's nesting in a side-opening box, she can easily exit the front
entrance when I begin opening the side, avoiding undue stress. Just as you
described, I've been startled when a bird "exploded out of a box" in my face!

Also, a bottom "hinged" box that opens from the front down may be hard
to monitor if it has a wide overhang; and if "hinged" at the bottom, the wood
predator guard can interf