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Tree Swallows on the Bluebird Trail (Part 6)Also see Dead Tree Swallows in Nestbox and Violet Green Swallows From: "Burnham, Barbara" Barbara.Burnham"at"zzz.zzz Dottie, Last weekend I had the privilege of joining a very dedicated bluebirder to monitor part of her trail. I learned many things from her, but I will never forget watching tree swallow courting behavior. The male swoops and circles overhead with a huge chicken feather, showing off to his mate. Then he drops the feather from way up high. The feather sways back and forth as it floats to the ground, and the female swoops by and collects it in mid-air. They did this several times until finally, the feather was placed in the nestbox. A beautiful, graceful aerial ballet. Most of the feathers I saw them use in their nest were white, light brown, or light gray chicken feathers about 2-4" long, with lots of fuzzy "down" near the quill. If you visit someone who raises chickens, maybe you could collect a few (clean) feathers for next time. Barbara Burnham From: Dottie, Hickory Hollow, Brown County, Indiana [mailto:yumyumkatts"at"voyager.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 11:42 AM Subject: BB's and Tree Swallows and PM's I checked most of my boxes yesterday and found that I have four Tree Swallow eggs in a box I wanted the Tree Swallows to use. Good for them! This box is paired with a BB box. They sat on the wires and watched me check their box but they didn't swoop me. I saw that they only have one poor feather in their nest. I saved the feathers from my Tree Swallow mystery last year but can't find them now. Dang. I'm going to get my husband to look for them and, if he finds them, I'm going to put them around their box. Should I check their box like I do the Bluebirds? Do they mind if you look at their eggs and babies? Well, that's two down and one more to go for the Trio. When I was swimming in the lake yesterday afternoon, two Martins came flying over my head. I could see the purple color on their backs shinning in the sun. They were probably Dennis' who has a huge PM colony near me. I'm still playing the Dawn Song and hoping. Doing good with the Bluebirds--fledged 19 in the first nesting. Second nesting has already started. Dottie, Hickory Hollow From: "eveningprimrose" primrose"at"lcii.net Greetings, Is there anyone else in TX who may have tried to attract the Tree Swallows? I know they will use the same nesting box as the BB's. I walked around my potential area just now, and mainly noticed the white Egrets (not sure which variety) and a Great Blue Heron in the area. From the sounds I was hearing, I may have been TOO close to the Heron's nest. My main threat would still be HOSPs and an occasional snake. I talked to someone, who has a waterfront lot. He said he had only seen a 1 snake in 6 months...and it wasn't a Water Moccasin. Any input?, Lisa in Quitman (NE), TX From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com From: "Stan, Apple Valley/St. Paul, MN [44.44N, -93.10W]" Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 17:04:53 -0700 Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:07:48 -0400 Hi everyone, This nesting season, I received nearly a dozen e-mails by nest box monitors who had reports of adult Tree Swallows dying in their nest boxes, early in the season with no visible physical trauma. Obviously, there could be many causes for these mysterious deaths. Based on the information given and current knowledge, I am guessing most of these deaths have to do with fatigue as a result of migration. But I am also wondering how widespread this is. I am hoping that everyone who has experienced this will report it in TBN's database so we can take a closer look at it in the future. If you have had adult Tree Swallows that died for unknown reasons, please report it to us and additionally, write me personally. I would like to compile these observations in a format which takes into account location, weather, and time of year, so please include these factors in your e-mail. Also, if you have more than one nest box, and other birds nested in nearby boxes at the same time with no visible problems, please note that, as this may help us to eliminate other possible causes such as pesticide application. Feel free to write me with questions. Thanks in advance, Tina Phillips (607)254-2482 From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"tds.net Keith, Fawzi, et al, 1. This summer I ran 72 Bluebird houses, all paired, at 36 'sites.' 2. My paired houses are all roughly 15 feet apart. (10' to 18') 3. Here in SW NH, Tree Swallows outnumber Bluebirds about 10 to 1 in most rural areas. 4. ALL my houses are on other people's property, and almost all are in rural settings. None can be seen from our house, and many are miles away, though all but one 'site' are in Sunapee. 5. All 36 of my sites had one Tree Swallow nesting, and this is the case almost every year since I started in 1992. 6. In my best year (2000), I had Bluebird nestings at 16 sites, two of which had second nestings for a total of 18 nestings. During summers with weird weather, like this one, I can have as few as 14 nestings. 7. At sites where both species nest, they get along just fine and don't compete. 8. Often I have vacant (unused) houses at a site, and sometimes I have a House Wren nest if the house is too close to thickets. (my fault) 9. I'm fortunate in having almost no House Sparrow competition, since my houses are mostly in open, rural landscapes. 10. All my houses are 'NABS' style, either homemade or made by my friend in the prison. (This year his houses were of cypress !!) 11. All my houses have entrance blocks with saw kerfs, and I put saw kerfs inside also, under the entrance holes. 12. Most of my houses are on 3/4" galvanized water pipe poles, and soon ALL will be. A few are still on 2" x 2" treated fir poles. 13. If a pair of houses attracts NO Bluebirds for 2 or 3 years, I move them to a better location. 14. I use no paint - only linseed oil. 15. Occasionally a weakened swallow dies in the box, but not often. 16. I have NEVER had Tree Swallows take BOTH houses of a pair. 17. I have NEVER had Bluebirds nest closer than 500' from other Bluebirds. 18. I have a belief that many of the Tree Swallows that mill around are un-mated bachelors or spinsters. 19. Normally, Tree Swallows arrive and start nesting 1 to 2 weeks AFTER the Bluebirds. I hope this answers your question, Keith, and then some. Anything else that you're curious about? Bruce Burdett, SW NH From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"tds.net Phil, (et al), From: TomGaryH"at"aol.com Bruce, What distance (measurement) is used between parallel kerfs? When working with cypress, I've noticed that anything less than about 5/16 inch between the closest edges of two kerfs results in some wood chipping. I think 3/8 inch is ok, but I would like to use the greatest distance possible, yet still provide an effective "ladder." Any thoughts on this? Tom Heintzelman Backyard Nestbox Landlord 6 yrs From: "KimMarie Markel" auroramn"at"duranetweb.com Bruce (et al), I also deleted the Message where I think Keith said to experiment with different types of nestboxes. On a small scale that is what we did this year. Our one pair that successfully hatched and fledged two broods using our only Peterson Box mounted at 6 - 7 ft. We also put out 3 chalets and had 6 NABS up from the previous year. We also experimented with raising some of the boxes as a deterrent for House Wrens. TRES successfully hatched last year and this, in a NABS box mounted at 5 and 1/2 feet , another pair of TRES successfully hatched and fledged in a chalet mounted at 10 ft this year. The brood that disappeared were in a NABS box (with 1 inch guard) mounted at 8 ft. For some reason House Wrens stayed away from the boxes that were mounted higher than 7 ft. (at least this year) and the higher mounting didn't seem to bother the EABLs or TRES. We also added another twist this year, realistic EABL decoys on the chalets (any one that wants a picture to see what how we did it let me know)... funny to see a TRES perched on a box, checking out the decoy. Remember I'm still new at this, but I'm open for new suggestions. After this summer I'm thinking ahead to offering choices again next year. I wasn't crazy about the Peterson's box, but the birds chose it. You've given me some new ideas and things to think about for next year. kimmarie :) From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"tds.net A letter to the Editor in the New York State Bluebird Society's
newsletter comes from a man (Larry Daley) whose experiences
with pairing and Tree Swallows are almost IDENTICAL to mine. As I said, his results and conclusions parallel (sp?) my own almost perfectly. Bruce Burdett, SW NH From: beabud"at"comcast.net Does anyone out there use the slotted swallow birdhouses??? I had problems last year with Sparrows. Did notice by some companys that carry a slotted house made just for the swallows?? www.duncraft.com has one. Do they work? ? is it hard for them to get into etc??? Bea in Bethel Connecticut (East Coast) From: "Larry A Broadbent" rockets"at"mnsi.net Hi Bea, I believe you are referring to this Tree Swallow nest box made
by Duncraft
http://www.duncraft.com/merchant.ihtml?pid=672&lastcatid=36&step=4
You can also use the Troyer style Slot entrance nest box made
for Bluebirds and Tree Swallows. It was primarily designed for
Eastern Bluebirds, but the Tree Swallows really love it as well.
Here's a picture of the Troyer style Slot Bluebird nest box.
http://www.bbne.org/gifts/boxsale.htm Sarah's Tree Swallow Page http://divamom2.tripod.com/id30.htm Dan Drew's : Tree Swallow / Purple Martin Protocol http://my.netdirect.net/~dandrew/EMERGENCY/TSEMERGENCY.html Let me know if I can be of any further help to you. Tree Swallow nest boxes can be placed 5 to 6 feet off the ground, and 10 to 15 feet apart. Eastern Bluebird nest boxes need to be place at least 300 feet apart. Regards, From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas OK I would rather some of the Cornell people would answer this BUT Tree Swallows are one of the only swallows that can and do eat fruits and berries when desperate for food. One of the reasons they resort to this is they are very early northern migrants. The reason this works for them is they have a longer intestinal digestive tract than any of the other swallows. There is also a warbler species or two that also are early migrants and also can handle fruits and berries....These birds are predominant insect eaters but have evolved to where with longer digestive tracts they can actually get some nourishment out of relatively hard to digest foods like berries. Predator animals can easily digest and absorb protein, meat or insect with a very short gut. I believe a mink has only about 11 inches of intestine which is not nearly enough to absorb whole grain or grass ETC. Birds on the other hand have evolved to feed on various foods and grasses and have varying amounts of crops & gizzards to grind and crush their foods and different lengths of digestive tracts.....With longer digestive tracts a goose which can digest all sorts of high cellulose grasses will thrive on high protein easy to digest meats and insects. Most birds when young actually need very high concentrations of easy to digest protein to maintain massive quick growth....SO during nesting season even seed eaters young are often fed on insects or the parent seed eaters will predigest seeds in their own crops or gizzards and then regurgitate a "milk" from what they have eaten...Parrots and canaries regurgitate a predigested milk high in protein. There are hundreds of thousands of species of plants that produce seeds or fruits for many of the different species of birds. Birds tend to eat what is easily found or they seek out something they crave to replace minerals or needed vitamins. Like wise insect eating birds may feed on thousands of different species of insects depending on the location and time of year. For instance there are over 660 known species of birds that frequent Texas and there are over 800 different species of bees in the same state. Birds themselves would not make a dent in insect numbers if
spiders, predatory insects and diseases for insects were all
cured for a single honey bee queen can lay almost 3,000 eggs
a day. More than enough to feed dozens of bluebirds everyday
if they were adapted to catch them. These bird species have
evolved to fill certain niches in this world....Feeding a few
species of plant seeds (bird seed) will only affect a tiny percentage
of the bird species and even a smaller percentage of the whole
bird population. There are volumes of books devoted to bird
diets and what they can and cannot eat. From: "Lawrence Herbert" lherbert"at"4state.com A. C. Bent, 1942, in "Life Histories of...Swallows"
writes this regarding the Tree Swallow: Good birding, Larry H. Joplin MO. From: "Lawrence Herbert" lherbert"at"4state.com ...and of the Barn Swallow, in Bent, 1942, "Professor
Beal analyzed 467 stomachs and found A. C. Bent states that the swallows are all primarily insect feeders. The Tree Swallow is the only one mentioned that consumes a great deal of vegetable matter as mentioned in the last post. Good birding, Larry H. Joplin MO From: "judymellin" judymellin"at"netzero.net This is such a different slant on the subject of tree swallows and water! I always thought water was almost "required" for tree swallows because they took insects over the water for themselves and their young. I guess the subject of drinking never occurred to me. I checked some of my resource books and found a couple of references about feeding: In Bird of Field and Shore, John Eastman states: Mainly aerial feeders, tree swallows sometimes fly long distances from nests to prime feeding areas, such as over-water sites or open acres sheltered from wind. ... Before and sometimes during incubation, tree swallows may apparently completely abandon the nesting area for up to several days. Eggs already laid do not seem to lose viability. This behavior may be related to a temporary lack of aerial insect food due to cold or wet weather. Birds may fly up to 20 miles or more to forage elsewhere. This volitional abandonment of territory for such lengthy durations- thus far seen in no other North American bird- is a remarkable adaptation for a bird dependent on aerial insect prey. In The Birder's Handbook, Ehrlich addresses drinking but his ezzzy is not specific to this species. Since they feed-and eat- mainly insects, they probably meet a lot of their water needs from their food source and probably have no more need to drink than other species. And, as they are taking insects over water, they probably consume some liquid, too. Judy Mellin From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"tds.net Judy Mellin, et al, From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"tds.net Judy, Fawzi, Rudy, et al, Bruce Burdett, SW NH Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 18:42:39 -0700 (PDT) Hi everyone, I am conducting bluebird research in Ohio and I came across a very unusual sighting (well, I have never seen it before). When I was approaching one of the nestboxes I am monitoring, I noticed a Tree Swallow perched on top of the box, peeking inside often. When I made my way towards the box, the swallow flew off. I opened the box and to my surprise, noticed a bluebird nest with one bluebird egg. Four days prior to this visit, the nest was completed, but no eggs were laid, so obviously a female bluebird has been around the past few days. The problem is that I have never seen or heard any bluebirds at this one site. Tree Swallows are everywhere, and one nestbox has already been claimed by them, but two others look like the start of bluebird nests, but those are closely defended by tree swallows as well. I guess my question is this...Do Tree Swallows help Bluebirds
out and protect their nests while they are away? Or are they
just hoping the Bluebirds will Any help would be greatly appreciated in my study. Sincerely, Kristin M. Napper From: "Mary Beth Roen" mbroen"at"hotmail.com Kristin, I have never had Tree Swallows protect Bluebird nests, but I have had them take over EABL nests. I have had more than one instance of TRESs building their nest over an EABL nest, so in my opinion, that may be what the TRES is trying to do. I spent many hours this weekend moving 12 of my nest boxes to areas of better habitat. I had too many wren nests last year. I increased the size of my trail, so it will be more walking for me, but hopefully will increase the number of EABL nests and fleglings. I have one completed nest but no eggs yet. It has been in the 40's so maybe the birds are waiting for warmer weather to start laying eggs. Mary Roen, River Falls, WI From: "Snoopy" snoopy"at"wmis.net My tree swallows have always helped the blues out....I don't know why but I have one box that they seem to do this with every year. there seems to be an exchange to it though... when the first nesting of blues have fledged, the swallows get the box... the blues just move on to a different box for their next nesting.... I have even seen the swallows bringing food to momma bluebird.... I have no doubt they have some form of communication going on. ) joy in michigan ) From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"tds.net Kristin, Note, however, that I'm in NH, and not in WI. In WI, apparently, things work differently. I recommend doing what works where you are. Bruce Burdett, SW NH From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"tds.net Mary Beth, But that was many years ago with single houses before I started pairing. Since I started pairing, I have had no Tree Swallow competition, - only peace and cooperation between the two species. With single houses, the Bluebirds never had a chance. Bruce Burdett. SW NH (that's New Hampshire) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 12:57:14 -0400 Hi Kristin et al, Early in the season like this, EABLS can appear to be quite elusive. You could show up early in the morning - like 7-9 am, as that is when they lay their eggs. So if she is laying and doesn't skip a day, you ought to get a glimpse of her! Also, personalities of EABLS are different and some are very
private and elusive all through the season. I barely see one
pair of EABLS on my trail throughout the season even though
they are some of my most successful nesters and I've had them
for about 4 seasons - and I check my trail a LOT. From: "J. Petko" jpetko"at"neo.rr.com I found 3 dead TRES in one of my nesting boxes yesterday. They did not look like HOSP kills. Does anyone have any idea what might have killed them? The only thing I can think of is that they had just arrived and were exhausted from their migration. Janice Petko NE Ohio From: "Dick Stauffer" sapl1"at"telusplanet.net Check the breast bone area of the birds to see if they are emaciated. The bone will feel very sharp with no fat / flesh on it. If they are emaciated they probably succumbed to hypothermia. It would have to be cold when they arrived?? D Stauffer From: "Karen Harder" karenh"at"praxisworks.org I was finally able this morning to get to the last 3 of my boxes for the first time this spring. Along with several others, they are in a marsh grass area of the Rachel Carson NWR. Having had absolutely no trace of activity yet in any of the ones I had been able to monitor, I wasn't too concerned about getting to those last 3 so late. But I did have a couple of surprises. The first of the 3 had apparently sheltered a bird for one
brief moment since I cleaned them late last fall -- no surprise
there. But the second one had obviously been someone's home
for quite a while. The floor of it had nearly a 1/2" of
dried marsh grass seed heads or seed hulls (it all just turned
to dust when I touched it). But what was alarming was that there
were also 8 blue feathers. Most of them were stuck tightly into
the seam of the back and one side. During the 3 years I've monitored
this box, it has always had Tree Swallows -- nothing else. But
these are definitely Bluebird feathers. All 8 are identical
in length (2 5/8") and width (3/8" at widest). And
they are identically proportioned as to the narrow outer and
wide inner webs. A couple of them are very deep blue with black
shaft, and the rest range down from that intense blue to almost
gray with pale gray shaft. The white calamus on all of them
is extremely fine, almost needlelike. I'm just trying to play
detective here, figuring which feathers these could be. Tail
coverts perhaps? Upper or lower? I wouldn't be terribly surprised
to see tail feathers snagged in this way, but I don't see how
these particular feathers could be from a tail. Or could they?
It's just not pleasant to contemplate the difficulty this may
have caused during this very challenging winter. Hopefully,
they weren't essential flight My second surprise was rather distressing. It's a new box that my husband and I mounted at the end of last season. We were talking as we approached the box, and I tapped on it perfunctorily, having no activity anywhere as yet, continued talking as I unscrewed the Phillips head screw, opened the box and saw what looked like more than one Tree Swallow. I was so startled, though, I closed the box instantly, in order to catch my breath and look again, more rationally. I tapped on the box again, but nothing happened, so I gently opened it and a bird flew out. I looked in again, and there, on the bare floor of the box, almost squashed in a back corner, facing the corner, was another Tree Swallow. The first bird had been on top of it. Its legs were sort of splayed out to the sides, and its neck was slightly twisted, with head propped up against the corner as if looking upward. It seemed utterly dead. It was too dark inside to be sure whether the visible eye was open or not, but it had a look of complete terror about it, nonetheless. I was about to remove it from the box when I noticed that it was actually breathing, slightly. So I closed the box and left quickly. I never saw either bird well enough to know whether they were both males or females or one of each. Could they possibly have been mating in the box? If so, that's new to me. As for same-sex fighting, I don't think Tree Swallows do that, do they? Aren't they more cooperative and communal than that? My fear is that I should have gotten the bird out of there and to the rehabber as fast as I could. All I thought at the time was that I should stop interfering with "nature" and just let it take its course. I'm a firm believer in that, but when you feel you could do something to "help," it's not always easy. I wonder what I'll find when I go back in a couple of days. Karen Harder -- Cape Porpoise, Maine From: KCBSP"at"aol.com Kathy Clark New Cumberland, PA I always have some odd nesting behaviors when it comes to tree swallows but it has been on trail not near water.. Is this really so common? If so I'm glad but it just strikes me as odd for sure now. This time it is at the state park where we have lots of water fowl. Tonite while trying to place the temperature loggers for Cornell I had to check a few extra boxes. There was a tree swallow roosting in there and it was cute. She had all her fruit striped gum wrappers and her medication card (ones you pop the pills out of ) for Contact. Guess she had a cold this time!! Why do these few birds pick such odd objects while others use feathers? I see this more and more.. Kathy From: "Mike Chaney" chaney"at"tis4000.com I have two boxes on my property. One is definitely taken by TRESs. BBs have shown interest in the other, but TRESs have gotten the upper hand and now they are building a nest. I haven’t seen the BBs since Saturday before I captured and prosecuted mister HOSP who had forced his way into this conflict. Should I intervene and discourage the TRESs from taking the box or should I leave things as they are? Mike Chaney From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"tds.net Mike, et al, You didn't say in your Message how far apart your boxes are, but my guess is that they're farther than 15'. Bruce Burdett, SW NH Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:33:01 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA So try at 15' but if the birds can't work it out between them,
you can experiment with moving the boxes a few feet apart at
a time and see what happens. Once you get past 25' it isn't
paired - meaning they 4 adults won't protect each other's boxes.
So you really have to keep it at 25' or shorter. From: "Dick Stauffer" sapl1"at"telusplanet.net Hi you all: Thanks Dick Stauffer From: khussie"at"localnet.com found a dead female TRES on the graveyard trail yesterday inside a box w/ no nest. I don't think she was attacked as I don't see any major sign of that, however, she did have a real tiny cut just above her beak. Any thoughts? Kieran NW of Philly From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber) Kieran, During early spring when there is wet or prolonged cold weather many Tree Swallows perish due to lack of flying insects. It is common to find dead Tree swallows in nest boxes. Some think they are to weak to exit the box,but there is no proof of exactly what went wrong. Remove the dead bird,as others should come soon to continue the nesting for this year. Joe Huber, Venice, Fl.... From: "KimMarie Markel" auroramn"at"duranetweb.com Hi Everyone, One of my boxes (a NABS style) has been used for the past 2 year (2001 & 2002) by TRES and has had successful fledges. This year is seemed like the TRES had once again claimed the box. This morning when I took a walk around the back meadow, sure enough there was a female TRES on the box (I didn't bother to open it because I didn't want to disturb her). I went back to the meadow area again to do some pruning on some apple trees and "Surprise", there's a BCCH going into the box. I checked and sure enough there is a nest made of moss and what I think may be deer hair. I know others have posted in the past about EABL and TRES competition, but has anyone seen BCCH and TRES competition??? There are 3 other boxes within view of this one... I don't know if the tree swallows will take another one of them or is the female's "heart" set on this NABS box. kimmarie :) Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 09:57:02 -0400 I have a pair of tree swallows that has been trying to claim a backyard nestbox this month. It seems that they build the nest slowly and only when the weather is good. When it's sunny the male guards the box and the female proceeds building the nest. However, during rainy days, they disappear and the HOSP quickly take over, adding their garbage to the nice grass and feathers. (I've been trying to trap them or shoot them, but this HOSP pair is smart.) This cycle has been repeated at least 6 times during May. Sunny weather - proceed with nest building and guarding box,
fighting off HOSP easily. IF we ever see the end to the rain, the tree swallows should come back and make a stronger stand. Here are my questions. Should I continue to just remove the HOSP additions to the nest, leaving the TRES nesting material in place, or should I remove the whole thing once the HOSP messes it up? Don't TRES usually nest by now? How late can their nesting be in the mid-Atlantic area? How long after mating are eggs laid? Last Tuesday was sunny and I saw the female presenting and mating taking place. We haven't seen the sun since then and the TRES have been scarce also. Thanks in advance for your help and advice. I've never been able to successfully attract TRES to a box before (blues always fought them off) and I'm hoping this year will break the trend! Pam in Abingdon, Harford County, Maryland From: Jscott9536"at"aol.com I have box with swallows that have laid eggs and the female has been sitting on them I was outside and heard the swallows making a lot of noise and went over to see if a house sparrow was trying to take over their nest. When I got closer to the box there were three swallows and two were fighting as the one swallow would grab the other swallow and take it to the ground and both were trying to get in the box at the same time I thought that they were going get stuck in the box opening then they started going at it one taking the other to the ground. The third swallow was sitting on the top of the box all the time this was happening. the next day I seen a dead swallow on the ground about 6 feet from the box. I went up to the box and two swallows started to bombbard me and when I looked in the box all was well as the eggs had hatched.and they are caring for them What do you think was up that this was happening? I do have a box of 5 blues that hatched yesterday. Jim in northern Indiana From: "Snoopy" snoopy"at"wmis.net Is this common..... From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber) HI Joy, Do you have another nest box near by? This seems to be the ideal situation for pairing boxes. If not why not try another box near by to see if the Bluebird will take to it. This is normal competition between the two species. If they are given a chance most any bird will take over a disputed box. I am not sure if they will harm the tree swallow young or not. But its not good to have a mixed nest. Try the extra box and let us know what happens. Joe Huber,Venice, Fl. From: "Snoopy" snoopy"at"wmis.net yes, there is another box about 20 feet from this one.... but the EABL doesn't seem at all interested in that one. (sigh) Joy in Michigan P Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 22:54:03 -0400 Well hopefully the TRES will win out! I just had a TRES box with 3 eggs usurped back by EABLs. They had fledged 5 babies - then the next day the TRES moved in (I knew there was going to be trouble) and about a week later, the bluebirds were back and then - - -they kicked out the TRES. I also had another box 20 ft away. Let us know what happens. :-) H ... From: Lynn Ward lWard"at"pmai.org I have a female EABL in one of my boxes who has been incubating 5 eggs for several days. A couple of days ago, I checked her box & two were missing. One was punctured at the foot of the box. I was very surprised because house wrens have never attempted to nest in this area. But I had so much trouble with wrens last year, I thought to myself that they're at it again, even though I'd not had one bluebird or tree swallow egg taken this year. In the paired box next to this box was an old tree swallow nest where the swallows had fledged a couple of weeks ago. I did notice that a few new feathers had been laid on top of the nest but thought it was a wren trying to move in even though there were no twigs. I removed the old nest never thinking a tree swallow was trying to nest since all tree swallows on my trail have fledged except for one box and they'll go any time now. Well surprise! This morning a tree swallow egg was laid in this box on bare wood. I can only surmise that a tree swallow had a failed nesting and wanted the bluebird box. It tried to remove the bluebird eggs but then had to settle for the old dirty nest in the other box and laid fresh feathers in it. I have since put an unused bluebird nest in the box and placed more feathers in it. Who knows? Maybe more eggs will be laid... Lynn Ward From: "Paula" PaulaZ"at"columbus.rr.com Just when the discussion about ticks is dying down, thought I'd bring up another interesting question. This year and last, as weather gets warmer, all of my TRES nests have mites, and one recently removed after fledging was absolutely CRAWLING with them and I was "mitey disgusted" (as they crawled all up my arms and head). It is interesting that the EABL nests do not seem to have them (at least not that I can see). I also noticed that worst nest was closest to chicken farm (chicken mites?) Could major mite infestation increase mortality rate of TRES chicks (found one dead in nest after fledging). PaulaZ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:03:33 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA I used Caged Bird Spray on my Phoebe nests with 100% results - - but that was BEFORE the eggs hatched. I don't know if it would work once the eggs hatched because you'd still have quite a supply on the chicks. But you could try... although I don't know how you would keep all the mites off you in the process. You could take the babies out, throw out the old nest, spray the entire box with caged bird spray or even better, replace box with same kind of box in exact spot -- - - - put in new nest with chicks. Then if you replaced the box - spray the mite box and repeat procedure a few times over the course of a week and see if you lose all the mites. That might be too much intervention. I had a mite ridden box of TRES last year in my yard and I decided NOT to intervene at all and they all fledged just fine. I've been told they will die - and maybe some will, but like ants (the little ones) I think they don't really do the kind of damage we imagine. I sure could be wrong - but my policy is why fix it if it ain't broke! I'd like to know if others feel they've had chicks die from mite infestation. :-) H ... Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 13:03:19 -0700 (PDT) Someone asked if anyone felt they had babies die from mite infestations. Last year, in one of my NABS style cedar boxes, I had 5 TS dead. They were only a few days away from fledging, and the box was absolutely crawling with mites. I made the assumption that they either were killed by mites, OR, as I had read somewhere, that if an infestation is severe enough, the parent birds will stop going into the nest. So, perhaps they weren't fed in the last few days, and in fact, I saw no parent birds around this nest. Actually, as regards TS, my experience has always been that unless predation occurs, it is a species that seems to have a very high hatch rate, and a nearly 100% fledge rate, as I seldom find dead young in the nest. On the few occasions that I have found dead young, they are older, as if they were abandoned. I have never encountered small dead nestlings with older live birds in a TS nest, unlike what frequently happens in a purple martin nest, for instance. Mary Wilson, From: "Bill Darnell" bdarnel3"at"bellsouth.net As a Purple Martin landlord, I can tell you mites will cause pre-mature fledging. I have never permitted it to happen here, but I know a colony not far away which is not managed in the least, and over a hundred jumped from the gourds a few years ago in one season. (The colony has long since been abandoned) Nest failures from any kind of predators or competitors can cause abandonment. Think of what thousands of mites would feel like to a tiny bird. Some PUMA landlords use nest replacement at ten days of age, and later if needed, and wipe the inside of boxes with rubbing alcohol if needed, or they use 5% Sevin dust in a miniscule amount when nest building starts. We don't have any TRES here yet, but I suppose it would also work for them. Bill From: "Paula" PaulaZ"at"columbus.rr.com Mary, In my TRES nests over past two years, I have had quite a few nests with one or two dead chicks (feathered) and others fledged fine. None of my bluebird nests have lost any chicks in past two years. I have NABS style boxes too. Not sure why (cooler in Ontario?), but you are having better success than me here. Regarding mites, I figure they get in there one of three ways: adults carry them in on their body?; nesting material (especially feathers) is mite infested; or they simply crawl into box. I don't think my mites crawl into box as I heavily grease poles with auto grease, but not sure how tough mites are. I don't know whether or not adults have a lot of mites on them either. Here is my theory (only a theory, for what it is worth). I noticed last year that all my TRES nests (removed ONLY after fledging) were heavily infested with mites. Adjacent to my trail is a house with a chicken coop and a flock of pigeons flying around the house. All my nests had white feathers in them which I assume is from chickens and/or pigeons. This year I carried a box of clean feathers with me on the trail and gave them to TRES during nest building. The farthest box from the chicken/pigeon house has a nest of 5 TRES that will fledge any day. When I remove that nest, will let list know if mite infestation appears less than nest I removed last week which was closest box to chicken/pigeon house and was absolutely crawling with the little buggers. My theory is that the adults may be inadvertently increasing mite infestation in nests by using mite infested feathers for their nests. By providing them with clean feathers, I hope to reduce this. What do others think? Paula Z From: "judymellin" judymellin"at"netzero.net When I cleaned out some of our boxes where tree swallows had completed their nesting and fledging, I found very tiny snails! I think I've read before that some birds will feed/consume snails to use the calcium in their shells but I was very surprised. It may be that, in previous years, I have just thought these shells were dried fecal sacs, since they are the same very small size, and probably didn't pay any attention to them. But I found them in all three nests that I cleaned out and abandoned. Does anyone know if this is "normal"? I do provide eggshells throughout our 600 acre site so the birds have a source of supplemental calcium but it appears they liked the snails better! Judy Mellin Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:32:14 GMT One time when I was checking a nestbox with tree swallows in
it, the male was going around my head the way they do and as
he came down one time I picking up some thing up and when I
came up he hit me in the head. He was not trying to hit me,
I came up at the wrong time. He set on the box looking at me.
I told him I was OK and I knew he was not trying to hit me.
He went back to going around my head, but did come as near to
my head as before. From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"tds.net
Tree Swallows have swooped by my head a lot, but none has ever
hit me. The only bird that ever hit me was a Brown Thrasher.
He drove that big beak of his into my skull and actually drew
blood. I learned not to try to peer into a Thrasher's nest.
From: ptom"at"austin.rr.com From: KCBSP"at"aol.com From: Joe Baker [mailto:rok90"at"adelphia.net] From: Don / Ruth Edwards [mailto:pinecrestfarm"at"earthlink.net] Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 7:25 PM Subject: Re: TRES flying circles around incubating BB. Yes, Joe, by all means set up another nest box within 10-15 feet of the nesting Bluebirds. They are looking for a nesting site but will not harm the Blues. The tree swallows will actually help to guard and protect the Bluebirds as well as their own box. They are very nice birds to have around. Ruth Edwards, Westport, MA From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"tds.net] In my own case, howerver, since ALL my boxes are paired, the swallows always have a house to move into, and they no longer circle around the Bluebirds. If your houses aren't paired already, I would CERTAINLY install another house about 15 or 20 feet from the one the Bluebirds are using. The second house will certainly not bother the Bluebirds. But it will provide a place for the swallows to nest, and stop them from buzzing the Bluebirds' house. At my sites, Bluebirds nest happily side-by-side with Tree Swallows in my paired houses. Though some people in some parts of the country don't approve of pairing, I find that it works well for me here in NH, and it puts an end to Bluebird-vs-Tree Swallow competition. (Boxes as far apart as 30 feet or more are NOT paired, in my opinion.) At my paired sites, It's the BLUEBIRDS who are often the biggest pesterers, sitting on the swallows' roof and peering over the edge into the entrance hole. Bruce Burdett, SW NH From: [mailto:Nature1951"at"aol.com] From: Joe Baker [mailto:rok90"at"adelphia.net] From: Dottie, Hickory Hollow, Brown County, Indiana [mailto:yumyumkatts"at"voyager.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 1:12 PM Subject: BB's & Tree Swallows My BB's and Tree Swallows have always got along great. No problems. My paired boxes are 15' apart. Dottie, Hickory Hollow Brown County, Indiana From: Nature1951"aT"aol.com From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"AT"tds.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: Re: BB's & Tree Swallows Dottie, John Rogers, et al, My Bluebirds and Tree Swallows get along so great, paired 15' apart, that the four adults TEAM UP to repel any intruder, including Robins, Bluejays and even the occasional cat.. The Tree Swallows nest just once, in May and June, and promptly disappear, leaving the whole site to the Bluebirds for a frequent second nesting going into July and early August. It has often been observed that the immature Bluebirds from the first clutch will help their parents feed the second. Pairing is an effective technique here in New Hampshire. Some folks have had the Tree Swallows take BOTH boxes of a pair. That has never happened to me. ... Bruce Burdett, SW NH From: Dottie, Hickory Hollow, Brown County, Indiana [mailto:yumyumkatts"AT"voyager.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:52 PM Subject: Re: BB's & Tree Swallows "Pairing is an effective technique here in New Hampshire. Some folks have had the Tree Swallows take BOTH boxes of a pair. That has never happened to me. Bruce Burdett, SW NH" If you are interested, check out my Tree Swallow mystery pixs that are on The Bluebird Box under Gallery. I had a Martin 12 compartment house that was completely taken over by Tree Swallows. They nested and laid eggs and then vacated, we think, due to an adult Tree Swallow dying in one of the compartments. Dottie, Hickory Hollow Brown County, Indiana From: Ruth Brinckman [mailto:oinker"at"comcast.net] Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 8:07 AM Subject: Questions on Tree Swallows-Help For several days I have had Tree Swallows swarming around two boxes that are about 100 ft. apart. I have 2 questions: Is it normal to have a group of 4 or 5 flying around the same box? They will hang on the box and look in, but so far I have not seen any go inside the box. The boxes have extenders around the holes to limit Starlings. Are the extenders keeping the Tree Swallows from entering the boxes? Thanks, Ruth Souderton, Eastern PA From: charlene anchor [mailto:charleneanchor"at"msn.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 9:16 AM Subject: Tree Swallows and Bluebirds I was monitoring my trail and came across a new bluebird nest with one egg in it that looked like a tree swallow egg. After closing the box and walking away I looked back and a tree swallow landed on the box. I was surprised that no alterations were made to the nest by the swallow. Is this unusual? If tree swallows have taken over the nest, not making changes saves them time in the nesting process. Charlene Anchor, Illinois From: Paula [mailto:PaulaZ"at"columbus.rr.com] Regarding TRES nesting behavior, I've got a couple of questions of my own. The "paired" concept at my trail at home (park with farm pond) seems to work well. If I get a TRES in one box, the other one will not be taken by another TRES (boxes spaced 5 - 20 feet apart). At our home on South Bass Island on Lake Erie, all bets seem to be off. There are so many TRES there (the word "swarms" comes to mind) that they seem to tolerate nesting closer together. Our neighbor has 4 pairs nesting in his backyard: one pair in nestbox, one pair in PUMA house about 20 feet away (and mounted higher); one pair in gourd about 20 feet away from this that is hanging in a tree; and another pair in gourd only 3 feet from the other gourd also hanging in the tree. I also have 4 pairs nesting in our yard in nestboxes. My boxes are spaced farther apart with closest ones "paired" 15 feet apart (TRES in both boxes). The good thing about this is the HOSP seem to have finally given up - not a sign of one in the 13 boxes I monitor here this weekend. I am also lucky to monitor a few boxes here at home in Powell. The houses on our street have never seen a TRES and I seem to have more successful nestings of EABL here than at either other location. I know it is nature's way and I know these birds are "good neighbors" to one another (or should be), but I am posting this question to the list. Is TRES competition keeping EABL from nesting in prime EABL habitat? There are bound to be some strong views on this one, and I know there is nothing we can do (other than pairing) to help the situation, but wanted to ask it any way. I also witnessed a very disturbing interaction between an EABL and TRES on a friend's trail last week. The boxes were probably spaced too close together - only 5 feet apart. Both male and female EABL were very aggressively defending their box and the empty paired box from a pair of TRES that were just as aggressively trying to use the other box. The TRES also kept looking in the EABL box which has 5 nestlings in it in a very small nest. I saw the TRES actually enter their box. He did not harm the nestlings and the EABL gave him quite the scolding. I saw the male EABL take the male TRES down on the ground twice. We moved the empty box 20 feet from the EABL box and watched. The male EABL immediately perched on top of the empty box. The female EABL then went in the box and sat there with her head out. The TRES fluttered in front of it and then the male EABL attacked him. We will see if the new spacing works and if these guys can "get along", but these two pairs of birds really seem to hate each other (anthropomorphizing). I have never seen such aggressive interactions between TRES and EABL before. Experienced thoughts and comments appreciated. Paula Z Powell (Central) Ohio From: Lynn Ward [mailto:lWard"at"pmai.org]
Paula, I have always had paired boxes, & I like Bruce Burdett, might never have bluebirds if I didn't pair. I have good bluebird habitat with absolutely no body of water near my trail. So why do TRES like this area so much? Not sure of the answer but they definitely congregate here every year. So far, my EABL to TRES ratio (number of birds fledged) has pretty much been 50-50. That's an interesting number taking into consideration that swallows nest once, and I have bluebirds that have three successful nestings. I'm more concerned this year than ever before because the swallow nestings have increased and the bluebird nestings have decreased so far this season. So, is TRES competition keeping EABL from nesting in prime EABL habitat? I suspect it may be true in my case, especially since it seems to be better bluebird habitat than tree swallow habitat. Incidentally, I've never had TRES nest together but it could be just a matter of time. I put up additional boxes every year so maybe that is preventing it from happening so far. I've also not seen the fierce competition between the EABL & TRES that you witnessed (of course that doesn't mean it's not happening). I would never space boxes only 5 feet apart - mine are spaced as yours are at around 15 feet. I just think 5 feet is too close for peace! Lynn Ward South Central Michigan From: EHDerry"at"aol.com [mailto:EHDerry"at"aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 2:28 PM Re: Questions on Tree Swallows - Help I currently have TRES nesting in both boxes in a pair about 10' apart. We are about 15 miles from Lake Ontario and no other water is close by. I also have EABL/TRES nesting in 3 other pairs of boxes on the same trail. Judy Derry Lockport, NY (Western) 43.18 N., -078.65 W. From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"tds.net] Judy, et al, In these reported situations where the Tree Swallows take both houses of a pair, why not try adding a THIRD box at that site. I know of a few people who routinely place three boxes at each site, roughly 15' apart, either in a triangle pattern or in a straight line, so that there's a place for the Bluebirds even if the swallows take two. I've still never had the Tree Swallows take both boxes, however. Maybe it's simply a matter of too many Tree Swallows in the area, and not enough cavities. Bruce Burdett, SW NH From: KimMarie Markel [mailto:auroramn"at"verizon.net] From: judymellin [mailto:judymellin"at"netzero.net] I think, as Lynn does, that's it's just a matter of time until tree swallows begin nesting side by side. For the first five years that we had paired boxes, the birds behaved just as they were "supposed" to- blues in one box and tree swallows in the other of a pair. After that, though, the tree swallows began taking both boxes in a pair, even where there was only 8-10' between them. They seem quite contented. I know this is different from what some folks, especially Bruce Burdett, see. I have seen conflict only once in the 11 years I have monitored this trail- but, since it is a distant trail, I'm sure that lots goes on when I'm not there. That particular incident involved a male bluebird and a male tree swallow doing battle royal over the box that sits at the highest point on the trail- but please know that "highest" in NE. IL. doesn't mean much as it is flat, flat, FLAT around here. The birds carried on on top of the box and then actually had a "dust-up" in the dust! They rolled around on the ground and really went at it. The blue won and he and his mate used that box successfully with no further interference from tree swallows that I ever observed. The trail I monitor sits quite far from water so I don't think that's the draw for the tree swallows. I think they see available cavities and take every advantage! Judy Mellin NE IL. From: LauraSue14"at"aol.com [mailto:LauraSue14"at"aol.com] Finally, after 20 years, Tree Swallows have found us! Bluebirds have been nesting faithfully all this time, but I had only seen TRES once many years ago. Wouldn't you know it but the TRES picked the most unusual box we have. In all, we have 9 boxes, 5 NABS style, 1 Peterson style (presently occupied with EABL on their 2nd nesting), 1 Gilbertson (was occupied by Chickadees, evicted by HOWR), 1 hanging 2-holed box, and 1 "Branch" box, similar to Frank Zuern's Tree Branch Nest Box (you can see this box at: http://audubon-omaha.org/bbbox/nestbox/fztb.htm). A friend of mine made the box for me but came up with the design on his own. We altered the box slightly by adding more ventilation and drainage holes. Of course this is the box the TRES chose! The female has been busy adding nesting material all morning and is now off to take a break. The male sits quietly by as she works. Very interesting to watch. Please keep your fingers crossed that they are successful. Can you tell that I am excited? Laura, Marlborough, CT From: Wendell Long [mailto:mrsimple33"at"go-concepts.com] ... Did I see a sight for sore eyes the other day! As I paused to look out at one of our bb boxes currently filled with tree swallow nestlings I observed feathers and other "stuff" flying in every and all directions as if a tornado was at work. Well, you experienced birders know the rest of the story. That's right, a blue jay or jay bird as we knew them down in old Kentucky was busy at work trying to get to the babies as, what seemed like a dozen, tree swallows were attacking him and dive bombing with the speed of a Lockheed P-38. What a fight! The Tree Swallows won, held their ground, took no prisoners and tortured no jay birds. But they bonded each with the other and protected their young. They must have been remembering Memorial Day and the Courage of their parents and grandparents They threw safety to the wind and placed Duty on top of the list and as a result of their actions the little ones sleep soundly at this moment as it rains cats and dogs and the thunder roars, the lightning strikes and they dream of the day when it is time to fly into a peaceful world where the devil in the jay bird turns into an angel of mercy. Wendell Former ExChairman TreeSwallowFlyingClub From: Bet Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net] According to http://birds.cornell.edu/birdhouse/bird_bios/speciesaccounts/treswa.html , " Tree Swallows have one brood per breeding season. Pairs will nest again if the first attempt fails, but true second broods are extremely rare. The same nest sites are used for more than one breeding season, and pairs will often nest on top of old nests." I think I may have at least one! We have had a lot of tree swallows (TRES) here this year in Woodstock Valley, which is located in northeastern CT. TRES occupied 9 out of 25 bluebird boxes on my trail - I counted ~14 TRES swarming one box in the spring. This year I put four boxes in a new area - a meadow with a stream/wetlands nearby and woods after that - looked like primo habitat. Three boxes are Petersons and one was paired with a NABs box, mounted on metal conduit with PVC pipe predator guards on the poles. All three Petersons in the meadow were occupied by TRES. (The paired NABS box had one "unsuccessful" HOSP nest attempt.) Nestbuilding began around 4/24 - 4/30. The first TRES eggs were laid on 5/10, 5/11, and 5/12 in the 3 boxes, with 6 eggs in each box. (It is typical for TRES in an area to lay their eggs within 7-10 days of each other.) Monitoring was less frequent than usual (usually 1-2x week), but it appeared that at 5-6 birds hatched in each nest. They were due to fledge on or after 6/15-6/17. Since some boxes nearby had fledged already, I checked the boxes on 6/17. They all appeared to still be occupied, but I didn't check too closely because it was so close to fledging. When I peeked, fecal material fell out and they looked crammed with babies. On 6/21, I went back to clean them out. One box (the one where eggs were laid on 5/12) was a typical used TRES nest with a layer of tarry fecal material coating the top. (According to the webpage above, "fecal sacs are removed from the nest until the young are 14 days old. Nestlings fledge after 16 to 30 days....") The second box (eggs laid on 5/11) had white fecal material on the door (from parents or fledglings) but the top of the nest was clean - no fecal material. I thought this was odd. However, I am a firm believer in cleaning out boxes as soon as a brood is finished, to encourage another nesting, and to prevent disease/insect infestation in a subsequent nesting, so I removed the nest and cleaned the box. (I did not realize that TRES like to nest on top of old nests. I wonder if this is because they are so pokey at nest building.) In the last box (eggs from first brood laid on 5/10) I found a nest with a clean top and one egg! I was shocked. This box also had white fecal residue on the door from the previous nesting. Today (6/22) I returned and found a second egg. I checked the box where I had cleaned out the nest, and a TRES flew out of it. (I kicked myself for removing the nest. I fashioned a new nest and put it in the box.) The weather in CT has been unusually wonderful this year. Nesting seemed to begin 1-2 weeks earlier than it did in 2003. For the first time in five years, I had a second brood of bluebirds. I wonder if the weather is a factor. Also, last year there was more HOSP competition - I have been successful in reducing the local population significantly, so I think TRES and blues had better access to boxes and less interference. I WISH we had monitored these TRES nests more closely - they are a bit remote and the grass is very tall in this meadow (tick haven). I would like to be able to say with 100% certainty that the first nestings were successful, and know the exact date of fledging. I am checking my records again, and am going to keep a close eye on them from now on. Sorry for the long blathery report. Bet from CT http://www.sialis.org From: judymellin [mailto:judymellin"at"netzero.net]
On my trail in NE IL., tree swallows are still building nests/laying eggs and this seems very late for them to be doing that. However, I have no reason to believe that there are any second nestings. There have been two nests of tree swallows that have fledged and another that is probably doing so as I type. I think those that are just beginning are possibly first-year birds that were a bit late in getting started or just pairs that chose to play for a while before they started nesting. I had very early tree swallow nests this year- three were built in early April but not used until early May and this was something I had not run into before. Also, I have two beautifully-built and generously-feather-lined nests that have been sitting unoccupied for over two weeks. So I just observe and record- and walk away, scratching my head! Judy Mellin NEIL. From: Lynn Ward [mailto:lWard"at"pmai.org] I too have very late TRES nestings this year. One pair has just laid their fifth egg today, and this is a first also - they're next to a paired box which has TRES nestlings that are ready to fledge. And to echo Judy's experience, I had the earliest nestings I've ever recorded. Less bluebird nestings this year which is a disappointment but the season is still young. Lynn Ward South Central Michigan From: Bet Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net] Here's an update on my situation: I had 9 boxes with TRES nests this year (actually 11 but the last two are at the local landfill and I don't check them as often). After they all nestlings apparently fledged, one box had fresh nesting material (on top of the old nest?) and a new egg, one had a newish looking nest I pitched (before I figured it out what was going on), and one had a nest with the typical layer of tarry fecal material, which I left in place as an experiment. (I cleaned out the other 6 boxes which all had poopy nests.) In the first nest with an egg, more eggs are being laid, so it is definitely an active nest. In the second nest where I pitched the nest, I went back and filled it with nesting material, and today there was an egg (and BOTH parents inside of it. I filled it with nesting material because I figured it would take them forever to build). The third poopy nest appears to have had the poopy layer removed and new material placed on top--I'm guessing I'll see an egg there soon. None of the other boxes I cleaned out have any TRES activity. (Although I'm seeing lots of HOWR dummy nests, grrrrrr.) I wish I had a webcam on these boxes, or banded birds to be sure, but I just can't believe that these are new TRES. None of the first set of TRES nestings in boxes failed that I know of. I suppose it's POSSIBLE that there were TRES nestings in natural cavities that failed and that's where these are coming from, but it has never happened before on my trail. The same boxes are being used by TRES - I have other vacant boxes that had chickadees and blues in them, and none were picked for a "second" TRES nest. So despite the note on The Birdhouse Network that true second broods are extremely rare, I think there is a strong likelihood that is what is happening here. Malinda also reported a new TRES nest in one of her boxes after fledging. She cleaned the box out after fledging, and within 2 days TRES were putting new nesting material in, and she has eggage. She is not sure it is the same pair, as they seem less aggressive. Bet from CT From: Simon [mailto:simon"at"bowecho.com] From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"tds.net] From: Haleya Priest [mailto:mablue"at"gis.net] From: John Schuster [mailto:wildwingco"at"earthlink.net] ...[in response to question about distribution of swallows] The Violet Green Swallow is exclusively found on the western half of the USA. http://www.mbr-pwrc.usgs.gov/bbs/htm03/ra2003_blue/ra06150.htm While Trees Swallow tend to be found from the middle of the USA north to the southern areas of Canada http://www.mbr-pwrc.usgs.gov/bbs/htm03/ra2003_blue/ra06140.htm We have both species here in California. ... From: Sandy Proulx [mailto:sandyproulx89"at"hotmail.com] I monitor about 400 nest boxes in centeral B.C. cariboo region, had a couple of interesting things happen this year. Because I have a lot of boxes to check I only get to the longer trails every two weeks. We have a lot of Tree Swallows in this area, so all boxes are paired around 15 to 20 feet apart and no closer than 500 feet between pairs. On May 15th this one box had 1 Bluebird egg, then on June 2nd Tree Swallows had built a nest over the Bluebird nest and there was 6 Swallow eggs. Next visit was on June 16th and there was 5 young about 3 or 4 days old, which I thought were all young Swallows. On July 1st as I was about 5 feet from the box a there was a young Tree Swallow at the entrance hole, instead of going back in which they normally do this one left, and was soon joined by about 5 adults then it landed on the top of a birch tree. I then carefully opened the box and I found one young Swallow and a young Bluebird. I closed the box and was walking away the young Bluebird also fledged, just then a male Bluebird caught up to the young as it was flying and they both landed on fence post about a 100 feet from the box. The male kept trying to coax the young one to some trees and after about 3 minutes it left the post and landed about 20 feet up in a aspen tree. I'm sure the Tree Swallows hatched those eggs, and the male Bluebird must have been feeding the young along with the Swallows.....Sandy Proulx, Williams Lake B.C [Note from webmaster: see discussion on tree swallow losses under Dead Nestlings.] From: Barb DeLong [mailto:delong24"at"msu.edu] I haven't been on this list for about a year - but where is everyone. I remember last time I was on if you asked a question you got an answer from quite a few people. I asked a question yesterday about TRES and haven't received 1 reply yet. HELP! I know there was 5 eggs in the nest in the beginning of June and we know that they hatched approximately 3 weeks ago or so. Last weekend we saw the mama and daddy tree flying around with at least 4 babies, but my question is - when do they actually fledge and leave the nest for good? We know they are still in there because we can see them going in and out and the babies begging for food when either parent comes back to the box. Barb DeLong Eaton Rapids, MI From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"tds.net] Barb, Pam, Ann, and, of course, Wendell, I agree that young Tree Swallows (and most birds,) do not go back into the nest once they have flown from it. Let;s say I've never seen it happen. I also agree that what you, Barb, are seeing, flying around with the parents, is a few adult bachelor and spinster swallows, and not the chicks from the new clutch. With Bluebirds, the only adults we see around a given nestbox, normally, are the parents of the chicks inside. With Tree Swallows, we often get bombed by a whole squadron of adult birds, not just the pair that's nesting in the box. My guess is that these squadrons are unmarried (unmated) birds from the previous year's nesting, but without banding evidence it would be hard to prove that. In the spring sometimes a whole swarm of Tree Swallows will seem to be showing an interest in a given box. But only one pair eventually mates and nests in it. All the others hang around during the whole nesting process. They sit in rows up on wires and TV antennas, and seem to attack intruders in defense of the box, but they play no role in the feeding and nurturing of the parent pair's clutch. They act, in some ways, like our unmarried relatives. I have promised the Webmaster that I will mend my ways, so I will NOT be enticed into frivolous exchanges. Anything I say about Wendell will be strictly laudatory, and I always try to treat ladies in a chivalrous manner. Bruce Burdett. SW NH From: Pamela Ford [mailto:jpford"at"comcast.net] Hi, Barb, sorry that I missed your question too. Sometimes we just assume that someone else is answering. Tree Swallows are beautiful aren't they. Glad you have a nesting. Cornell's website indicates that tree swallows fledge at between 16 and 30 days of age. I've generally seen fledging at about 21 days. Once the tree swallows fledge they will not return to the nest box. So what you are seeing is one of the following scenarios: - some of the nestlings have fledged and there are still others left in the nest. It is common for nestlings to fledge individually spread across a day or two. Therefore some are flying with mom and dad and some are still being fed in the nestbox. - the nestlings have not fledged yet and you're seeing mom and dad flying with other adult tree swallows. With tree swallows it's sometimes hard to tell the young from the adults. It is common for tree swallows to fly in groups and even protect a nest box from intruders en masse. As long as you see the parents feeding at the box, there are still babies that haven't yet fledged and all is okay. Also, tree swallows are quite independent as soon as they fledge, quite unlike bluebird babies who follow mom and dad around screaming for food for a month after fledging! Pam in Harford County, Maryland From: KCBSP"at"aol.com [mailto:KCBSP"at"aol.com] Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 4:45 PM Subject: Re: Where is Everyone? Hiya Barb... Here's your answer. Tree swallows incubate for 14 days mostly and the fledges leave anywhere from 16-22 days.. They sound fine!! Kathy Clark, New Cumberland, PA From: Paula [mailto:PaulaZ"at"columbus.rr.com] Barb, TRES generally lay 5-6 eggs. The egg incubation lasts from 14 to 15 days. The time after hatch to fledgling generally lasts about 21 days. I have hosted quite a few TRES in my boxes, and like the EABL, once they leave the box they are gone for good. TRES are a little different than EABL in that the adults will often band together to protect a nestbox when they see us coming. What you observed was most likely the parent TRES for your box being joined by 4 other TRES to help "protect" their box from you. It could have also been a different pair with their recently fledged young, but if you were seeing the heads popping up and back in, your babies had not fledged yet. To me, the fledgling TRES look very much like the adults. The only difference I can see is that their plumage is more charcoal gray without any bluish color whatsoever. Paula Z Powell (Central) Ohio From: Barb DeLong [mailto:delong24"at"msu.edu] Just thought I would let you know that evidently my TRES fledged this past weekend. I saw babies peering out quite a bit and if we got within 15-20 feet of the house we were divebombed by all those other TRES that were around. You guys were right - there were other adult or juvenile birds taking care and watching and the babies were okay. When my husband and I cleaned out the nest last night we did notice that there was still 1 egg left in the nest. I was quite surprised - I just figured they took out bad eggs like the blues do - and was really quite surprised that it was still intact with all those babies and parents in and out of that nest so much. ... Barb DeLong Eaton Rapids, MI From: Elizabeth Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net] Interesting post on the garden web bluebirding forum from a person in Ontario: I've been adding boxes each year around my property and I have become overrun with swallows since I also kept adding a couple of extra empty boxes to make sure the blues have a box. My attempts at making sure the blues have a box has only increased the swallow population :( I tried the pairing of boxes 10 feet apart and had 3 happy pairs of swallows contentedly living close to each other. There was a 4th box in the forty foot span but it was a Peterson box and they don't seem to like them so I"ll be increasing the number of those in my yards. Next year, I'm spreading out all of my 8 boxes on the back part of our 20 acres for the swallows since they are the first to start looking for boxes in my area. Usually the blues come along about two weeks later and are harassed out of the area when they are looking for a box. I will put up two houses near my house but keep the holes covered until I know the blues are back in the area and have claimed their clothesline post and have been at my mealworm feeder. Plus having the swallows nest in my yard made for a dirty above-ground pool as 2 of the 3 couples used my pool as their "toilet" literally aiming an dropping the fecal sacks in our pool. My husband didn't believe me until one day I made him sit and watch one of them take aim at their big "toilet". Quite often the wind changed and the side of my pool ended up covered too! Yuck! From: Snoopy [mailto:snoopy"at"wmis.net] You know what I was totally surprised to read in this post???? ......for the swallows since they are the first to start looking for boxes in my area. Usually the blues come along about two weeks later....... This totally shocked me because I have noticed just the opposite here..... my blues are here about 2 weeks before the swallows and they get a real nice head start,usually have a nest built before the swallows even arrive. That is funny because I really am not that far from Ontario, especially "as the bird flies." Joy in Michigan From: jwick"at"tds.net [mailto:jwick"at"tds.net] The Tree Swallows arrive later than the bluebirds here in southern Wisconsin also. I, too, am surprised by this post............... :) Ann Wick Black Earth, WI From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"tds.net] Here in NH the Bluebirds normally arrive a week or even two before the Tree Swallows. Unless the houses are paired, the nesting Bluebirds will get harassed (sp?) right out of the neighborhood by the swarming swallows, often abandoning their eggs. But with paired houses, there's no competition. Everybody's happy, including me. Note: The Tree Swallows do not attack or harm the Bluebirds or their nests or eggs; they just buzz them and pester them in droves until the Bluebirds just give up. With paired houses, the two species appear to be good friends. Bruce Burdett From: Snoopy [mailto:snoopy"at"wmis.net] I have found the same thing as you Bruce, as long as I have the boxes paired.... I do have one house they all prefer though.... the swallows don't harrass though, they wait for the blues to be done with the house, even helping to feed the babies, and then they get the house... It seems to be a "prearranged" thing with them!! lol. Joy in Michigan From: m-r-sumne |