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Nestbox Predator ID (Part 1)In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website: Predators and Problems On The Bluebird Trail Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 08:22:45 -0400 Help!!! I had 5 eggs yesterday on the 13th day of incubation. There was a terrible thunderstorm, it rained all night, went down to 55/60. Today I checked, there are only three eggs. Please, what do you think happened? There is moisture on the bottom of the box but the nest appears dry. -Laura Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 07:36:25 -0500 Laura and all! When something disappears from a nestbox look closely at the edges of the roof and around the entrance hole. You are looking for single pieces of hair from four legged predators that might have raided the nestbox. Is the nest disturbed in any way where a paw could have pulled some nesting material while reaching for eggs. How far are the eggs from the entrance hole? How large is the entrance hole? Cats seldom succeed in removing eggs from boxes with a 1&1/2" round entrance hole if the front is 3/4" thick but they stir up the nest contents. Raccoons and possum's can pluck eggs out of the nest since they have the opposing thumb to work with. Snakes will normally eat the female and all contents if they enter the box in the dark. I have seen a 14" long baby rat snake eat just one Carolina Wren and leave the other three 9 day old chicks. So a very small snake might be only able to eat two eggs. Probably you have eggs that hatched and the female removed them for one reason or another. If they died the female will remove them probably before you got up. If the female is gone today then you probably had a predator. Did the eggs or young go under water last night due to a leaky roof or inadequate roof overhang? What type drain holes do you have? Look at these possibilities and get back to the list! Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant 120 miles East of Dallas 70 miles west of Louisiana. Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 09:26:11 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA Missing eggs is often part of the nesting phenomena. I always use missing eggs to update my predator guard situation on the box. Do I have a PVC baffle on the box? Do I have a wood block on the entrance hole? Is the box located too near a fence or some other object that a predator could hop from onto the box??? Like KK said, it can simply be that the parents removed the 2 eggs. Missing eggs can be natural part of the nesting cycle, so use this to update your predator controls and don't feel bad that you've done something wrong because you haven't!!! :-) H Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 09:33:53 -0400 Keith and Haleya, Thanks for your Messages. I am so upset. I have done everything wrong from the get-go. My box is screwed into an old swing set. It is leaky and near trees. I could not move it because the box is screwed in from the inside and I would have to take out the nest, get out the cordless drill, etc. There is no block on the front, no predator baffle, nothing. To compensate, I usually have a baby monitor out but had to
take it in last night due to the rain. I also thought that with
such terrible weather, perhaps The good news is that Abby and Christopher (mom and dad BB) and alive and well. Making lots of trips to box and seeming much more active than usual (I don't know why). The nest looks completely undisturbed. The cup part of the nest is completely dry. I saw one bug in the nest but it looked like an edible one. So I am just hoping she removed them. But, why would a mom
remove her own eggs? I know her first 2 eggs were laid on frigid
40 degree days. Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 08:56:07 -0500 Laura and all-- Jay Gilliam Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 15:42:22 EDT Laura - Please don't be too upset. Everyone on this list has made mistakes when they started bluebirding and most still do! As you said the other day the stores are selling these boxes without telling people how, where etc. to mount them. Many people probably just stick them up and pretty much ignore them after that. YOU are taking the time and trouble to find out what to do and doing the best you can right now. When this nesting is finished - hopefully successfully for the remaining eggs - you can get the box mounted on a pole with a predator baffle and the bluebirds will probably nest again. As for what has happened to the two eggs I will leave it to others with more experience to try to help you figure out. You said that these eggs are in the 13th day of incubation and the increased activity ( particularly by the male ) at the box COULD mean that the others are hatching or near hatching or it could mean that something has happened to the rest and the bluebirds are upset and/or starting over again. Watch as much as you can and maybe check the box again pretty soon and let the list know what you see and/or find. If there are still eggs or babies maybe putting a predator block on will help a bit against climbing predators, since I don't see that you will be able to guard them from climbing a swing set. You said the box is leaky but the nest is still dry at this point. I'm sure someone on the list will suggest what you can do to make it more weather proof if needed and if at some point the nest does get wetter someone will advise you what to do about that too! Keep us posted Jane Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 16:23:35 EDT My sister-in-law just called and said that she has 4 eggs.
Yesterday she had 2. One is white with spots. I made her go
back out and when she came back to the phone she said there
were only 3 now. One of the blue eggs is gone. There are 3 eggs
now. 2 of them are blue. 1 is white with brown on it. There
is no egg on the ground or on any eggs in the house. Has anyone
had this happen? Please answer as soon as possible. Is there
any way on earth that this is a house sparrow. Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 16:09:19 -0500 Spotted egg in this instance is probably a brown headed cowbird.
Sometimes they remove an egg and sometimes they just add to
the nest. I recovered a http://www.suttoncenter.org/bhco.html Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 23:21:27 -0400 Information from Donald and Lillians book : The Bluebird Book Protection From Predators Predation is part of nature, and we must learn to accept it. There are, however, many things you can do to lesson predation on your bluebird trail. House Sparrows: They can be vicious predators of bluebirds. They can enter a nest box and kill adults or young by pecking open their skulls or pecking open their eyes, and they can destroy eggs by pecking or removing them. Cats: Cats can climb posts, reach into nest boxes, and harm the young,or they can sit on the top of the box and harass or kill the adults. They can also sit on the ground in front of the box and jump to catch the adults, but they can be deterred from this by your mounting the boxes 8 ft. high on poles. When possible, cats should be confined during nesting season and should be prevented from climbing nest box poles through the use of predator guards. Raccoons: Raccoons are major predators of bluebirds. They climb to boxes at night and kill any adults, young, or eggs that are in the box. A nest that has been disturbed by a raccoon will be missing birds and the nesting material will be pulled part way through the entrance hole. Frequently, claw marks are found on the box, and feathers and bits of eggs are scattered on the ground below. Occasionally,raccoons leave few signs of their predation. Deter raccoons with predator guards on the poles or entrance hole extensions. Boxes mounted on trees or fence posts are not easily protected from raccoons. Snakes: Snakes, especially those of Elaphe, such as rat snakes, and those of the genus Pituophis, such as bull snakes and pine-gopher snakes, are predators of bluebirds in many parts of the country. One study showed that snake predation occurred more within 300 feet of woods. Snakes climb up poles, even poles that are greased or spread with Tangle foot ( a sticky substance available at garden supply stores) , and eat young and eggs. There is often no sign of disturbance to the nest. Snakes can be deterred by 4" PVC pipe or specific snake traps. Wrens: Wrens, especially house wrens, can be prey on bluebirds by puncturing and / or removing eggs. The eggs may have tiny puncture holes and sometimes are thrown on the ground or taken elsewhere. In some cases wrens have killed adults or killed nestlings and thrown them on the ground. The best protection from wrens is to keep the bluebird trail away from wren habitat. House wrens prefer woody, brushy areas,so place bluebird nest boxes at least 100 feet from such habitats) Hawks: Hawks can kill adult and fledgling bluebirds as they fly about the nest box. Kestrals have been reported to cling to an entrance hole of 1 3/4" inches, reach in, and remove a 6 day old nestling. Sharp shinned hawks, Coopers hawks, and merlins eat mainly birds and can eat bluebirds. Sharp shinned hawks have been reported to catch adult bluebirds as they left the nest box. For protection from hawks, place boxes away from known nesting hawks and way from power lines and other perches above the box from which hawks can dive down and surprise the adults. White footed mice, deer mice,chipmunks, squirrels, are also capable of climbing to nests and eating eggs or young. The best way to stop all of these climbing predators is to use predator guards on the poles. You can reinforce entrance holes with a metal plate so squirrels cannot chew through. Other Birds: Crows, blue jays, and grackles prey on eggs and nestlings of birds that build one cup nests, but they rarely prey on birds in nest boxes with 1 1/2" inch entrance holes. However, magpies in certain area of the West, have become problems at bluebird boxes. Submitted by: Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 22:22:13 EDT Hi all, I have a box with eight chickadee eggs due to hatch any day.
Today I went to the box but wasn't sure whether the mother was
on the nest or not and didn't The hairs are definitely NOT cat hairs - too stiff. Anyway I have no cats and have never seen one onmy property. I think they must be raccoon or possum. Has the small hole stopped the animal from being able to get its paw in? Is there anything else I can do to make sure that if it comes back it will not be successful in getting in? I could cut the small branch above down - and should I at this stage try to raise the box height somehow? Jane Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 07:59:33 -0400 Hi Jane: I can only come to the conclusion that the oppossum or raccoon attempted entry by using the limb overhanging the box. I would saw off the limb and hope for the best. Thanks again for your great report - that's what this list is all about. Betty Nichols, Middletown, MD Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 07:37:36 -0500 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas Don't panic yet! Are there any scratch marks on the nestbox? Chickadees, Titmice and several other birds will use animal hair in nests and these sometimes will end up outside on the box due to sticking to the birds or getting blown out of the box and then hanging in an invisible spider web. You checked the stiffness of the hairs and seem to have confirmed opossum but I have a chickadee nest only made from a possum fur coat and the box also has these hairs stuck to the outside. If you are using Gary's entrance hole guard and have a total thickness like mine from Gary of 2" then the birds will be safe on the inside as this small entrance hole and depth will severely limit the reach. Make sure you apply grease above the guard and this will let you know if a night time predator is climbing up to the box. If it is then a different or higher placed guard will be necessary. You DO want to stop all predators from reaching the nestbox! Thick wood blocks at the entrance hole have limited value when a 1&1/2" hole or oval hole is used as cats, coons and opossums have small paws. A nest with birds or eggs right at the entrance hole or even within about 3" down are easy prey for the dexterity of a coon as they have very long wrists and fingers. Coons have very soft fur and most of the individual hairs are banded in colors of light and dark. I once had a friend panic because overnight her box was coated with white fur. It ended up being Canadian thistle down from their seed parachutes that were caught in rough wood. For a back yard box you can spread sand or fine dirt around the nestbox pole and observe what leaves tracks during the night. The ring should be about 35 feet in diameter to record the tracks of animals just walking by. Tilled gardens or flower beds smoothed each evening will also record tracks. It is amazing how far cats roam at night to get to a child's sand box! It is also amazing how many tracks you can have every night and not have any predators trying to raid your boxes! Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 10:21:44 EDT Hi all and many thanks for your prompt answers - As usual there were many different ideas and suggestions all of which were helpful and now I need to balance the various factors to consider. First - all looks well at the box this morning. I haven't seen the birds but there are no more hairs or signs of disturbance. To answer the various comments and questions - The distance from the ground to the bottom of the stovepipe guard would be about three feet. The box has a thick wooden block around the hole - these boxes come with that. I can see no obvious scratches on the box or disturbance around the entrance hole.The nest is not very high - I would say about 2-3 inches with the inside of the cup lower of course so the eggs are pretty well down in the box. One of the reasons that I am not panicking is that with all this and the good overhang I think whatever it was could not at this point get to anything in the box. I am most concerned that once the nestlings get bigger they might be higher up and then there would be more danger so I want to do all I can before it gets to that stage. Three people suggested the hairs might be from a Grey Squirrel - and I think now this is highly possible - don't know why I didn't think of it at first! The hairs were just where the squirrel's tail would have hung down. So I think it would be a good idea to cut the branch above down - it certainly can't hurt! I did think yesterday that the hairs might have been dropped by the birds themselves. There are similar hairs in the nest I think but then I discounted that since nest building was quite awhile ago. But now I am thinking maybe since it was cold or maybe because it's nearing hatching time the mother has been adding to the nest. Is this possible? Next time I look I will try to decide if anything's been added since it would be interesting anyway to know this. As far as the pole height goes I think since right now it does not look like the animal ( if there was one! ) got to the box from below I will not risk distrubing the birds at this crucial stage. The mother is quite skittish. What I will do is keep a very close eye on things ( I have some sand I think and will put it round the bottom as Keith suggests to look for tracks ) and if I think there are any more signs of trouble maybe raise the box after the babies are born but before they get very big. Thanks so much for all your help - keep sending me more ideas if you have any! It's a nice warm day here today and I will try to check the box later and let you all know how everything is. I LOVE these chickadees, and really want them to be OK! Best wishes all Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 16:58:34 -0400 Hello, I had some chickadee's nesting in one of my boxes until I had discovered that the eggs had been destroyed. One day there were 6 eggs in the box, then when I went to check the box 3 days later I found all the eggs on the ground, all broken. They were right below the hole. The nest was in perfect condition. I took some pictures of the eggs on the ground and of the birdhouse, check em out, This one is of the birdhouse from a distance. This one is a close up of the birdhouse. This one is a close-up of the eggs in situ. This one is of the broken eggs on the ground. Thanks, Jason Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 23:52:11 -0400 Sounds like a wren to me. Randy Jones Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 07:49:03 -0400 (EDT) Hello Jason and all, Looks like the destruction of the Chickadee eggs was the results of a House Wren that tossed out the eggs. Some sticks should show up in the box if that is the case as the Wren starts carrying in nest material. The only other cause of such destruction would be a House Sparrow which I feel sure you would have seen by now. You can rule out the four legged critters as this was done by one of the birds mentioned. The one that done this will show up claiming the nest and starting to build its nest. While a Chickadee likes being near trees it is best to locate the nest box further into an open area away from trees or bushes where Wrens can get close to the box under the protection of cover provided by any plant. Very good photos of eggs you show. Joe Huber Venice, Fl. Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe
Huber http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 09:25:49 EDT To all who wrote about about my chickadee box with the hairs found on it - yesterday we cut down the branch above, I got a chance to check the box when the mother was out and all was well ( 8 eggs still not hatched - day 13 ) and we spread some sand around the bottom to see if there were tracks. This morning, no tracks, no more hairs, no other signs of anything wrong. All looks well and I hope to be able to report that the eggs have hatched soon! I think that the hairs must have come either from a Grey Squirrel getting on from above or that they were dropped by the chickdees themselves. But I will continue to keep a close eye on things around this box. Thanks for all your help Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 08:53:31 -0400 I live in NE Pennsylvania. Yesterday it was rainy and very windy. I saw the male and female EABL in the morning before work. I came home and the weather was even worse with no signs of either. I just figured they were out looking for food or under cover somewhere. This morning I didn't see them anywhere. It was raining very lightly, but there were other birds around like normal. Something didn't seem right so I went out and checked the nestbox. To my dismay there were four dead nestlings. After inspecting them, I could find no peck marks from another bird. I checked underneath the nest and there are no signs of insects of any sort. There was a lump of bird feces on top of one of the nestlings. I am not sure whether that came from the male or female or just one of the nestlings. It seemed to big to have been one of the nestlings though. Did the male or female jump in the box and find out they were dead and then leave? I believe it was probably the weather, but is the first time that I have had nestlings die. It is a mystery to me. There are two other boxes in the yard. One with TRES and one has the 2nd nest that the EABL built prior to this brood. I checked the other box and found a wasp and killed it. I removed the dead nestlings and the nest because I didn't want them to be in the box dead. Does anyone know what happened? Will the EABL come back? Thanks, Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 10:41:29 -0400 (EDT) Hi Larry, The most likely cause of the death of young birds
in the box is Blow Fly larva. They suck the blood from baby
birds and at times can be fatal. Look in nest material for short
stubby maggot like hard worms. They should be easy to find if
they were the cause of death. Clean out the box and have it
ready for another nesting as Bluebirds may show up to use it
in a few days. Another possibility is some one spraying insecticides
in the area and parent birds got insects with spray on them.
Blow fly is most likely. The Blow fly enters the box and lays
eggs in nest. They hatch and feed on young chicks. Many Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe
Huber http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 10:01:58 -0500 Larry , Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 08:41:52 -0400 In the North East USA, .... Aside from HOSPs (house sparrows) ... what other *birds* have been documented as able and willing to kill nestlings *inside a nestbox or natural cavity? If there is a list somewhere, I'd be much obliged if someone you would point me to it. That list would be even more meaningful if there was also a list of *known/documented* methods of prevention. Thanks in advance,
Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 11:03:00 -0500 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas Those birds known to kill/remove nestlings from bluebird sized entrance holed boxes: House Sparrows, House Wrens, European Starlings, Grackles (several species) Kestrels, sharp shinned hawks and yes bluebirds documented killing & removing chickadees and titmice. What about the blue jay in the east actually raiding nestboxes? Magpies and scrub jays are known predators in the western states. Larger holed nestboxes like purple martins will add many more species of hawks and owls and larger squirrels. Mammals: White footed mice, deer mice, Norway and cotton rats (probably all species of rats) flying squirrels, red squirrels, chipmunks, cats, weasels, raccoons, opossums, bears, humans (due to theft of boxes, interference and sometimes simply over handling). You could probably add mink and the rare martin (mammal). Livestock have forced abandonment or killed by knocking down boxes. Reptiles: Rat snakes, coachwhip snakes, kingsnakes, garter snakes, gopher snakes, copperhead snake. Insects:Buffalo flies, black flies, mosquitoes (by disease spreading and the flies by their sheer numbers sometimes) blowflies (on rare occasions are severe enough during bad weather conditions for adequate feeding of the birds) mites (by sometimes forcing premature fledglings especially in martin colonies) wasps? [[I never have actually blamed a death on them except for the titmice I sprayed with an insecticide along with an active nest of wasps sharing the same box. Books said wasps and birds NEVER share the same nestbox so I soaked them down good through the entrance hole before opening the box and found the titmice! Twenty years is a LONG time to remain feeling guilty! DON"T USE HOUSEHOLD INSECTICIDES EVER IN A BOX!]] A swarm of honey bees forced abandonment of a nest of young birds on several occasions. This is a major problem in the west with wood duck boxes. Internal parasites will kill nestlings while they are still in the nestbox. Ants: fire ants are up through Virginia now and are a problem killing young birds in the southern tier of states. Most other ant species are a nuisance and not a very real threat if old nests are removed that contain dead insects, feces and feather chaff. There are some other species of ants that have on occasion been a problem. This post could be added to by others and have the preventative measures added. Some adjustment needs to be done as these are just some of my experiences and those related to me over the years. The real killer of birds is still the weather! Wet nests in nestboxes are not the main reason for young birds dying! Otherwise every open nesting bird would lose their eggs and young everytime they got a cold rain on them! There is no need to rush out and begin wholesale wet nest replacement by 99.9% of the members on this list. Besides being illegal to "possess or disturb" a songbirds nest MORE birds are killed due to manipulation in most situations than will be saved! Bluebirds cannot produce body heat until about 9 days old! Large nestlings cannot be brooded enough in cold weather regardless of the wetness of the nest when they are between 49 days old. When cold they get lethargic and will not beg for food, the parents cannot force feed them and they die from hypothermia and actually not from starvation. I figure I opened up nestboxes in 1979 well over 5,000 times and cleaned out over 500 nests of various birds during the season from 279 nestboxes. This is the least number of boxes I have checked on in a single year but I now stretch out the checking interval to just prevent House sparrows from fledging and I doubt if in all these years I have replaced 10 nests for the birds. None were because the nests were wet! If you really want to help the birds then place your well repaired, well drained, correctly ventilated, waterproof nestboxes on greased metal poles, use a Kingston 8" diameter sheet metal pipe predator guard placed higher than a cat can jump (minimum of 6 feet/2 meters high and 10 feet/3 meters from nearest branch or wall.) Educate any people in the area that have bird feeders or nestboxes about methods to help the birds or get them hooked up with NABS or Project feeder watch or state organizations ETC. THIS will save more birds and create less stress for the birds AND especially the OWNERS of this list serve than ANYTHING else we could ever do! KK
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 10:42:23 -0400 Just received an Instant Message from my mom - said she saw a grackle hanging around the house that the Chickadee babies were in. She said she saw mama and daddy come to the house, but they wouldn't go in. I told her to go out and check the nest for wasps and ants and she told me that the nest was empty, there were 4 babies and one egg on the ground under the nestbox. The egg was not broken, the babies didn't look like they were pecked or picked at. The questions we have are: Should she put the egg back in the nest? Will mama and daddy try laying eggs again if these babies had already hatched. The babies looked like they were only a few days old - still kinda bare and really small. Could this be the work of a House Sparrow? The house is a Stokes bluebird house that has a predator guard on it and she said the nest is still neat and tidy, nothing messed up, just empty. Did us checking on the nest on Sunday and scaring mama off the nest draw attention to the box? Thanks!
From: Larry Zapotocky Pam, Starlings cannot enter the box if the hole is 1 1/2", guard or no guard. They will try initially and I have even seen one trying to make the hole bigger by pecking at it, but they eventually give up. HOSP and Wrens can definitely access any hole a bluebird can and both have been known to destroy eggs and nestlings. I have experienced both the HOSP and Wren on a personal basis. Hope all goes well. Larry From: Pam Thanks to all you responded to my question about hole plugging. I have been keeping a very close eye on this batch and find that the both male and female BB are in and out of house frequently. I have also noticed they hang closer by than I thought. I still don't know who the culprit is that destroyed first batch of eggs. The paired housing is a good suggestion. However, last time eggs were destroyed no one took over house or appeared to have any interest in it. I have lots of wren, HOSP and starlings so it could have been any of them. I saw starlings at box today, but eggs or still safe. Can starlings enter a box with wood guard on hole? This is day 4 and of egg laying and all is still well. Thanks for all the support and advice. Pam in MD
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:11:06 -0500 Hi All--- I recently lost five Eastern Bluebird (EABL) nestlings in a box and cannot determine the cause of death so I am searching out other opinions. Here are the details: 1. Nestbox--- Rectangular NABS style; in open field facing (NE) the timber edge ~100 feet away; paired (15 feet) with a Petersen box that has an active Tree Swallow (TRES) nest with eggs/babies at the time of the incident; no hair or scratch marks found on box; nearest crop field at least 300 yards away 2. Nest--- 3-4" cup of fine grasses; not disturbed; dry; clean (no blowfly larvae/pupae or other insects found; no feces) 3. Nestlings--- five; 6-7 days old at time of death; huddled together in nest as if sleeping (undisturbed); well-nourished with full bellies; three babies had discoloration/bruising under chin and around left ear; two babies look normal; no direct physical damage (puncture wounds, bleeding); no blowfly larvae attached; no body stiffness or deterioration detectable 4. Parents--- could not be located in the area 5. Weather--- bad storm the day before with strong winds and rain 6. Pesticides in use--- crop field nearby but no pesticide application recently 7. Other--- a House Wren (HOWR) was in the box the next day I checked and had ~1" of twigs in it already I ruled out abandonment since their bellies were full, although the parents could not be located in the area. I ruled out pesticides since none have been applied in the area. House Sparrows are not in the area. No climbing predators since babies still present and nest undisturbed. Could it be hypothemia due to the bad weather, although the nest was dry? What could cause the bruising/hemorrhage in the neck/ear region? Could it be the HOWR that moved in the next day, maybe from the HOWR trying to pick up/remove the babies? Could the neighboring TRES have something to do with it?? My conclusion so far is the babies died from natural causes such as an internal parasite or infection. Any other opinions are invited. I took pictures of each baby and the bruising that I observed and will get them back soon to send to anybody who thinks they can help pinpoint the cause of death. Thanks--- Jay Gilliam
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:15:09 -0500 Pam, Starlings CANNOT enter a BB box =). At least you are safe in this regard. As far as your "sparrow" problem. They are abundant here as well as I live in "Farm" country. You best bet in to trap & KILL as many as you can to reduce their numbers in your area. This has worked well for me, and now VERY FEW come around. The "House Sparrow" is NOT a native bird and can legally be destroyed. Actually, the "House Sparrow" is not a sparrow at all but a member of the "finch" family brought into this country in the 1850's and released in New York. It had spread throughout our country like cockroaches and caused a SEVEAR decline in out "native" song bird population. If allowed to reproduce and spread like it is.....in time.....we may have NO MORE beautiful Bluebirds or other "native" songbirds....something to think about!! To see a GREAT article & Trap for BB boxes is at this link... http://community-2.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL/ I have been VERY successful with the "hubert" trap. Another GREAT way to reduce Sparrow numbers is to buy or build a Repeating Nestbox Trap...plans for one are available through the Purple Martin Conservation Association at this link... http://forum.purplemartin.org/newpage4.htm The PMCA also offers one for Starlings & Sparrows, although the one above is more for Sparrows but works for both, at this link... http://www.purplemartin.org/shop/Traps1.html There are several great traps available here, the one that I am referring to is called the "S&S Controller". Although I respect some others views on a birds right to live, I do not agree when it comes to Sparrows & Starlings. If you have seen FIRST HAND, as I have, what malice damage these "non-native" birds cause.....your mind changes quickly! Best Of Luck To You!! Thanks to all you responded to my question about hole plugging. I have been keeping a very close eye on this batch and find that the both male and female BB are in and out of house frequently. I have also noticed they hang closer by than I thought. I still don't know who the culprit is that destroyed first batch of eggs. The paired housing is a good suggestion. However, last time eggs were destroyed no one took over house or appeared to have any interest in it. I have lots of wren, HOSP and starlings so it could have been any of them. I saw starlings at box today, but eggs or still safe. Can starlings enter a box with wood guard on hole? This is day 4 and of egg laying and all is still well. Thanks for all the support and advice. Pam in MD
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:44:17 -0400 (EDT) Hi Barb and all, I would guess the Grackles that your neighbor saw were actually Starling. With a predator block on entrance they should not be able to reach the young inside. Yes it could be House Sparrows as this is the sort of thing they do. I doubt very much if it was the Black birds seen at the box but young chicks may stand up and be within reach of Starling beaks. It will take a few days for the parent Bluebirds to restart laying for another attempt. Your visiting the box the day before should have nothing to do with this disaster. Don't blame yourself for some predators acts. If House Sparrows were involved it is very likely they will show up at this box soon taking over. This is about the only way now to learn what did happen. If all eggs and young are gone from this box you can remove the old nest. If Bluebirds do renest they will build over the old one anyway and raise the nest cup to high for safety. Joe HUber VEnice, Fl. Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe
Huber http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 12:52:33 -0400 We put the egg back in the nest - my mom saw a sparrow enter the house and she quickly shooed it away - she went back out to the house to check to see if there were any babies left in the nest (on Sunday there were 5 babies and 1 egg and she only found 4 babies and 1 egg on the ground) and found the egg on the ground - this time with a hole in it, she said the egg has an unhatched baby in it. WHAT DO WE DO? Thanks! Barb DeLong
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 13:10:20 -0400 (EDT) Hi Jay and all, I normally blame the next tenant for previous problems in the box. I have never witnessed House Wrens peck young chicks in the nest but they seem the likely culprit in this case. They can make a mess out of eggs in the nest but I don't know about harming young birds. Perhaps others have. Pecking from House Sparrows is generally pretty easily noticed and more severe than what you observed. So far none have shown up at the box so I would cross them off the list of suspects for now. Hope you get some good responses on this one. Joe Huber Venice, Fl. Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe
Huber http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 20:01:41 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Starlings may not be able to enter a box, but they seem to be able to reach in and take out the contents (including babies). At a box with babies thrown out of the box or poked, starlings were around and all over the nestbox tree (I didn't see starlings actually do the deeds). The next day, more losses and starlings were still around so the last bluebird survivors of that box were fostered (successfully). Wooden face guards were later added to boxes with a 7.5" hole-to-floor drop which solved the problem. But jays caused problems last year at a site and new boxes have a drop closer to 8.5" hole-to-floor. Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 15:48:11 -0400 To: The Constituency, Bruce Burdett, NH Bluebird Conspiracy, Sunapee NH Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:40:13 -0400 H, my guess is that it is a raccoon or a raccoon family. I had an expensive feeder which gave a very small shock to squirrels to keep them from the seeds and it worked great. It did not harm the squirrels because the shock was so slight and they remembered the small bother of the shock and simply did not bother the seed. The feeder was made out of copper, cedar and 3/16-inch plastic. One night, a raccoon simply tore it up like it was a demolition derby project. It ripped off the front cedar facing, clawed gouges on the back, opened the top (which was easy) got inside, ripped out the electronics, tore out the plastic flooring and all interior parts and scattered the parts all over the place. How do I know it was a raccoon? First, its hair was stuck on what was left and, secondly, it came back to try to finish off what was left, while I was looking for it the next night. So, what happened at your friend's place sounds like a raccoon to me. My experience with raccoons over the past 25 years in several locations is that they are completely destructive. Here where I am now, they not only did what I described above, but they also destroyed another feeder, made out of thick, high impact plastic, with nothing in it, just to destroy it. They also tore ALL the deck lights off of our 70-foot long deck -- meaning a lot of lights -- one by one, over a period of several weeks. Also, in another house, I had a koi pond and they destroyed my koi one by one, but never ate one. They would fish a koi out, slice it open, gouge out its eyes and leave it to die on the side of the pond without even taking a bite of it for food. VMS Haleya Priest wrote: Haleya Priest Amherst MA Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 18:32:50 -0700 I had a bluebird family for the first time down in the pasture. Previously, the box had been used by tree swallows without a problem. When the bluebirds arrived in March, I put up another box for the swallows who accepted it and have since fledged. There was feeding activity in the bluebird box before I left for vacation around Memorial Day. I had been feeding them meal worms, too. When I got back, I didn't see any activity and I thought maybe they had fledged and gone away. I went to clean out the box this weekend and found three dead birds - two fledglings and a parent. They looked intact except for whatever is now decomposing them. One of the young birds looked like it was almost old enough to fledge. The other looked a litttle worse for wear. The parent was underneath the smaller one. How can I find out what happened to them so it won't happen again? I have the nest with the birds in it in the freezer. Any suggestions? Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 16:55:08 -0500 On June 14th, I checked one of my boxes and it had four BB eggs. (she did not lay a fifth one) On June 20 there were only two BB eggs. (?) There was a feather in the nest also that looked like the kind the TS used in the Martin House. I looked under the nest and felt around but could not find the other two BB eggs. So I put the feather over the remaining two BB eggs so I, hopefully, can find out if Mom is still coming to the box. Although, I have a bad feeling about this. What could have happened to the two BB eggs?? Dottie, Brown County, Indiana Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 18:29:53 -0700 This is from Liz in Watsonville, California For the first time I had a pair of WEBLs checking out my peterson box in March. This box in previous years had been occupied successfully by TRES. I immediately went out and got another since the TRES hadn't arrived yet. Anyway, the WEBLs seemed to be doing okay. I was even leaving mealworms for them in a bluebird feeder (which they used very successfully). Before I left on vacation (around Memorial Day weekend) there seemed to be feeding activity going on. When I got back about 2 weeks later, there was not a WEBLto be seen. I left some mealworms but no one ate them. About 2 weeeks later i checked the box and found 2 nestlings and a parent all dead. One nestling looked perfectly okay and like it was just getting ready to fledge. The parent was on the bottom of the nest with another nestling on top. The other nestling looked a little worse. Needless to say, there were ants all over. It broke my heart! What happened? I saved the whole thing in case I can send it somewhere and maybe someone can tell what happened. I certainly don't want to encourage any WEBLs to come back unless I know this won't happen again. The TRES nested successfully in the other box and fledge three. What now? Thanks for your help.
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 22:45:39 -0700 Hello Liz & all; Sorry to hear about the demise of your hatchlings and the parent. Unless you can find someone local who's interested--and knows how, I don't know of anyplace you can send the nest out to "be checked." While certainly sad, events like this just don't fall under the auspices of any agency detailed to getting these issues resolved. Sometimes bad stuff happens. Without a more detailed analysis, it's simply not possible to reconstruct the sequence of events that led to the unhappy end you found. To be honest, the best thing to do is put the event behind you, and press on with the next nesting. As it is, this late in the year, it's unlikely that anybody's going to be starting another nest--possible, yes. Just not real likely... Like I said, sometimes bad things happen. Your fault, somebody else's fault, nobody's fault...it doesn't matter. That event is settled, it's time to look to the next nesting. I lost a few this year too. Not whole nests like last year, just one or two, here and there. While I suspect weather, I really don't know why we lost everybody in 3 boxes. I've been doing the same things I did in the previous year, and continue them today too... Overall, the end result was good in that more than 60 fledged just fine. Dwell on the successes, and plan for a better next year...(:-)! Think on the good you did do, and go from there. L8r all, Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 07:58:49 -0400 Hi Liz, Dusty, and List, It's always sad when we lose hatchlings -- especially when we don't understand the cause. If you still have the nest, you might check with Terry Whitworth to see if he would check the nest for parasites. Here's a copy of the post he sent which includes his E-mail and mailing addresses as well as his Blowfly Website link. Hope your next nesting has a happier outcome.... MJ Terry Whitworth's post: ********************************************** Terry Whitworth Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 08:05:46 -0400 Dear Liz, what happened is sad, and it happens to all of us one time or the other. The best you can do is to figure (if possible) why this happened. If you see a reason why, and if this reason cannot be corrected, then I would not encourage the WEBL to come again. To be honest with you, I doubt this will be the case. Since the TRES nested there successfully, I would try again in the future. It would break my heart too, especially that this is the first time you have WEBL nesting. Since you also have TRES, how about pairing the nestboxes? Just yesterday I visited my trail in the park and found one more instance of pairing at work (TRES and EABL living in paired boxes about 20' apart.) In fact, why not pair all your boxes? This is what I do at home and in the park. Wishing you better luck in the future... From Fawzi in MD Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 06:36:52 EDT I'll vote either the coon or the black bear. Like Bruce, I wouldn't rule out the bear. Wild bears (not the dumpster variety) don't *intend* to be seen. With all the years of poking around our woods at great and detailed length, the most I've seen of a bear has been *one* track and a few scats. (Probably just as well! g) ... Rhonda Watts
Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 09:00:31 -0700 Dear Jody and friends, I wrote a post yesterday about "raccoons" and "bears", but deer could disrupt your bird bath and jumping a "4 foot fence" is no big deal for a deer especially those big white tails that you have back east. I'm not sure why they would be invading your back yard area. Deer have a tendency to go where the food and water are located. My post yesterday made a reference to and questioned the availability of "water" in an area. Is this a problem in your area and is there a drought back east right now? I can tell you that California is looking very dry and there is talk at CDF that we are facing at a really bad fire season this year. I've post Bob Tanem In The Garden, Garden Recipes before and Bob has a Deer Repellent Recipe. Here it is again, give it a try and I'd enjoy hearing how it works out for you (and others with similar challenges). Happy Bluebird Trails To You, Bob Tanem In The Garden, Deer Repellent Recipe (Made famous by Bob Tanem) 1 cup water Blend everything well. Strain, then spray your plants every 3 to 14 days. Other Bob Tanem In The Garden, Garden Recipes Grease Ant Recipe 1 lb. Bacon Fry the bacon and collect all the grease. Save the bacon for something else! Add some corn meal to make a paste (not too much) Add the baking powder and yeast and blend everything together. Place the mixture in jar lids Place the lids in ant paths (under the refrigerator is a good place if you have animals) Classic Ant Recipe This is the one that gets repeated every week on the radio show. 3 cups water Bring water and sugar just to boil and stir in boric acid. Place mixture in small jar lids and place in ant paths. Remaining mixture can be stored in a tight, well marked container in cupboard. Keep jar lids filled and out of reach of children and pets. You can place it under mesh or another can, so ants can get in but animals can't. Organic Snail Bait 2 tbs. flour Stir all the ingredients together and place in containers in garden. If your dog is interested in the yeast, place the containers under mesh cage or gallon pots. Rose Spray For downey mildew only Mix everything thoroughly. Spray once a week, no more than two applications. This is usually needed in spring. (Note: repeated sprays of baking soda could build up to levels toxic to your roses) Wheast For use on infested plants, like roses with Thrip (tiny insects that hang out in rose flowers and discolor petals or stops rose from opening). Wheast is used to attract beneficial green lacewings 1 part sugar Mix sugar and yeast with water to make a thin paste. Place drops on your rose buds. jodyrose wrote: I was reading this letter and was amazed. About 2 weeks ago,
I was leaving
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 21:16:21 -0400 Hi, If anyone has any ideas on this one, I'd appreciate them. Three EABL nestlings were born between 6/18 and 6/20 in the box in our backyard. We monitored the nestbox on 6/20 around 7 pm and they had all hatched, but none had at the same time on 6/18, so I assumed a hatch date of 6/19. We left for vacation on 6/23 (lots of feeding activity to that point) and returned 7/3 afternoon, expecting the earliest fledge date to be 7/5 (16 days old, or very close to that), but there was absolutely no feeding activity at the nestbox. We saw the male around getting an insect a couple of times on 7/3 and 7/4, but no signs of female or babies, and he was eating the insects, not taking them off somewhere else. We finally opened the nestbox today, 7/5, and the nest was perfect, nothing left inside. Could the babies possibly have fledged as early as day 14 (7/3)? I'm really baffled. There is a large spiderweb below the nestbox which would have been disturbed by predators climbing up, but it is intact with many insects in it, indicating it has been there for awhile. There was no sign of any scuffle on the ground below the nestbox. The nestbox is mounted on a tree with no predator guards (I know, no good, but we were ignorant when we put it up -- next year we'll do better). We hadn't seen any predators of any sort during the entire nestbuilding through early nestling period. No coons or snakes, and we don't have any HOSPs or HOWRs here. Nestbox is at the woods edge. Anyone care to hazard a guess re. what might have happened to our babies? Have any ever fledged as early as 14-14.5 days in your experience, or is it more likely that they came to a bad end? Thanks!
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 21:25:03 -0500 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant Texas Well North Carolina is in the heart of snake country and mounting on a tree trunk is very risky. IF any birds fledge from a nestbox they must shed the outer layer of the feather sheath and this will leave quite a bit of white material in the nest cup. This will look very much like dandruff. You did not mention how many young birds hatched but even one bird will leave some of this "dandruff" if they live to fledge. You can take this nest and tear it apart over newspaper and if you do not find any of the white dandruff then you can figure that something bad happened to the young and they did not fledge. Normally if two or three young bluebirds live to fledge they will flatten out the nest leaving no real cup. A snake can remove all of the contents of a nestbox and never disturb the nest cup. KK PS of course this is really not dandruff that the birds are shedding but I'm too lazy tonight to get technical!
Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 23:21:57 -0400 (EDT) Hello Emily, An empty nest near a woods sounds like racoon,s You say no disturbance to the nest. Was the nest flattened out or still in a cup? Fourteen days is a little early to expect fledging so some predator must have gotten the young. A snake will enter the nest and swallow the young or eggs and leave nothing to show he was there. Other predator birds may have pulled young out the entrance hole while you were away. Removing the box from a tree will be a big improvement for next year. Joe Huber Venice Fl. Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe
Huber http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 07:10:37 -0700 (PDT) Hi Emily...I agree with Keith. You & I both live in the heart of snake country, but let me relate this to you. There's some people about a mile away from me that has had a EABL box up on a wooden pole in their backyard near trees without any predator protection at all. Well last year (May 2000), their 1st nesting was successful before the snakes came out for the summer luckily. I've stopped at their house several times last year to help them monitor the box, & told them about snakes as a predator. His response was that we have no snakes around here because I've never seen any snakes in my backyard. I told him that I guarentee him he has snakes whether he sees them or not, as snakes usually come out at night or when we don't see them. Anyway, I gave him a copy of my predator protection writeup & urged him to read it & install the predator guard as described (the stove-pipe guard). Meanwhile, the EABL had started a 2nd clutch of eggs (late May 2000). He said he was going on vacation & left. Anyway, I monitored the box for a few days after they hatched. Well, shortly after that..1 day when I looked in..no nestlings were there..& parents were nowhere around. Nestlings would have been around a week old. Nest wasn't disturbed, just like yours. I knew exactly what happened. Well, as I drive by his house occasionally, I can still see that he still has no predator protection on that wooden pole. Some people are ignorant about these things & want to stay ignorant about it the rest of their lives. What can you say. I commend you for realizing that your box is in a bad place & are willing to change it appropiately....Horace in Durham, NC.
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 20:48:41 -0400 Thanks to the many who wrote me or to the list about our mysterious EABL nestling disappearance while we were on vacation. It does indeed appear that a snake is the most likely culprit, despite the fact that we have never seen a single snake on our property. All the signs point to that, though -- the nest still had its cup and was undamaged, it did not have any white sheddings or any fecal sacs, and there were no other signs of any predation. I am so sad and feel so guilty for mounting the box on a tree, but I was ignorant. I didn't start reading about bluebirds until after the nest was built. Next year, a pole and snake baffle for sure! I just hope that the snake didn't get the female as well. I've seen the male around several times, even fluttering at the nestbox hole once this morning, but haven't seen the female at all since we returned from vacation. If he lost his entire family (I know I'm anthropomorphizing here, but humor me), I'm just heartbroken. Anyway, thanks again to all those who took the time to write, even if it was with bad news. :-( Emily in Efland, NC
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:54:42 EDT I found my four 7 day old nestlings dead in their nest this morning. I was gone yesterday, so I don't know what happened. It had been very sunny and in the upper 80's. What I do know is that we have had swarms of some type of flying and stinging insects in our area in Wisconsin the last couple of days. The babies had red areas on their bodies. I inspected for blow fies, and only found 1. There had also been a robin in the area which was competing for mealworms for the last couple of weeks. Had not seen any problem with wrens or house sparrows. Most bites or pecks noted were on the back side of their body. Anyone have an idea what could have happened here? I have a picture (not the clearest) if there is an expert out there who would like to help figure it out. Thanks,
Hi Deb and all, Eggs thrown out of nest is most often the work of a house wren. They are crafty little birds that sneak in when adults are away feeding. I've personally watched a House wren carry an egg 30 Ft from a box before dropping it. The Bluebirds will soon become aware of what happened and will chase Wrens relentlessly the rest of season. It is possible that the Bluebirds will use the same nest and lay more eggs within a week or so. If other birds don't take over. Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber Nestbox Predator ID (Part 2) |
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