Nesting Cavities other than Nestboxes (Part 1)

Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 18:22:45 -0500
From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net
To: "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Cc: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net
Subject: Natural Cavities

Hi all,

For 10 years I have been puzzled by my lack of success in attracting the small cavity nesting song birds to nest in nest boxes in the forest.

When I read of Linda Violets success with nest boxes hanging in trees I was even more bewildered.

But, I now have a theory that I hope to receive comment on from those of you who have placed nest boxes in mature, deciduous, unmanicured forest that is not park- like.

The theory is that these smaller birds have plenty of natural nesting sites within the type of forest described, and, they actually prefer natural
cavities to nest boxes.

Therefore, when a nest box is placed in mature forest of the type described, it goes unnoticed by the birds and the overwhelming majority of the birds' nesting attempts in concealed natural cavities go unnoticed by us.

But, when a nest box is placed in a field, open area with young second growth trees, manicured forest, or manicured trees in suburban areas, it is
noticed by the birds and used very quickly because the final ingredient in excellent breeding habitat, namely a nesting site, has been added. And, we notice every nest attempt in the new breeding area because it is inside the nest box we provided.

In the latter scenario, the addition of the nest box creates a new breeding area, whereas in the natural forest, essentially nothing is added as there
are literally dozens of nesting cavities within every 100 yard circumference that defines a potential breeding area, and, the natural cavities are
preferred by the birds.

It is commonly recognized that providing nest boxes in areas where no natural nest sites exist creates breeding opportunities which are quickly
exploited by the birds.

But, in mature forests, are the birds able to find natural cavities that they prefer more than nest boxes?

Also, it is well accepted that there is a certain territory size required by each species. Most birders would also probably agree that much, even most, of the area within the forest is part of the breeding territory of some titmouse or chickadee if that forest is within the breeding range of these
birds. But, how much of the forest is claimed by the bluebird as its breeding teritory?

Please comment.

Gary Springer

Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 00:24:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Barry Whitney barryw"at"therock.mcg.edu
To: Gary Springer springer"at"alltel.net
Cc: BLUEBIRD-L BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Natural Cavities

On Thu, 1 Mar 2001, Gary Springer wrote:

For 10 years I have been puzzled by my lack of success in attracting the
small cavity nesting song birds to nest in nest boxes in the forest.
...
But, I now have a theory that I hope to receive comment on from those of you
who have placed nest boxes in mature, deciduous, unmanicured forest that is
not park- like.

The theory is that these smaller birds have plenty of natural nesting sites

My situation is not exactly what you are looking for, but it does bear on your questions. My 10 boxes (SC on the SC/GA border) last year were hung in trees (as Linda Violett's in CA) at the edges of acres of mature woodlands in our suburban town (population about 12k). In spite of the
adjacent acres of woodlands, I had three nestings of Tufted Titmice, plus two of Eastern Bluebirds). Evidently the Titmice liked the roomy
nestboxes even though they should have been able to find lots of natural sites in the adjacent woods.

Since I have pretty well saturated the good woods-edge sites this year, I will probably be hanging some new boxes in deeper woods this time around.

Yours, Barry

Barry Whitney
North Augusta, SC -- Latitude: 33.50, Longitude: -81.98
A mile from the Savannah River and Augusta, GA, home of the Masters golf tournament
Bluebird pages: http://www.crosswinds.net/~barryw/bluebird/mybb.htm
barrywhitney"at"unforgettable.com

Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 19:06:27 -0800
From: "judymellin" judymellin"at"netzero.net
To: "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: woodland nests

I would like to add a new dimension to the discussion of nests in natural cavities. Of course, we all know that this is where "our" birds nested before we took the cavities away when we cut down so many dead and dying trees in woodlots.

On the site where I have been monitoring since 1990, we had made great strides in restoring a 40 acre oak woodland to its pre-settlement condition. Frequent burns and lots of brush clearing had made this a real showplace in the area, as the oaks gently shadowed the grasses and forbs that had regenerated from the long dormant seed bank that was finally opened to the sunlight.

In 1994, I started seeing Eastern Bluebirds in the woodland, sometimes several pairs throughout the season but never with any evidence of nesting. Finally, in June, 1997, I saw a magnificent male perched on the limb of an oak about 25 feet above the ground, singing his magnificent song. I confirmed nesting there- in cavities- in 1997 and 1998 and was hoping to live long enough to someday take down my nestbox trail.

By 1999, though, I saw a male there in the early spring and, alas, no blues have used our woodland for anything since then. What happened? Due to political difficulties with our Forest Preserve District, we were forced to suspend all restoration activities for almost 18 months and have never gotten back to a regular burn schedule.

As a result, the woodland floor has become totally clogged with brambles and weeds. Since blues forage on the ground, they need open areas with sufficient space to feed. So I would suggest that folks consider not only the closeness of the canopy but also the condition of the woodland floor before you expect much- whether from boxes erected in the woodland or from natural cavities.

Judy Mellin
NE IL.

Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 23:47:46 -0500
From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net
To: "Barry Whitney" barryw"at"therock.MCG.EDU
Cc: "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Natural Cavities

Hi Barry,

I've had huge success at the edges of the woods too.

Near 100 percent occupancy. Tufted Titmice, Chickadees, Eastern Blues or Carolina Wrens in almost every box. And I'm completely engulfed by mature forest.

But, for some reason the birds haven't responded to nest boxes directly in the woods. I've had this experience both in Georgia and in Pennsylvania.

It doesn't take much of an opening in the canopy of the forest to result in occupation of a nest box by birds, but it seems some opening is requisite
for any reasonable nest box occupancy rate. I've had chickadees and Carolina Wrens build nests in a couple of the boxes in the forest but the chickadees never laid eggs and Carolina Wrens once abandoned eggs.

And, it is interesting to note that we both instinctively knew that the edges were better. We both saturated these areas before moving them into
the woods.

It's possible the reason is not that there are more natural cavities in the forest, but I can't come up with a better explanation.

If you put enough boxes in the forest, at least a hundred feet from any clearing, I'm betting you'll see how unproductive they are and start wondering why as well.

Gary Springer

----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Whitney" barryw"at"pebbles.mcg.edu
To: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net
Cc: "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 12:24 AM
Subject: Re: Natural Cavities

On Thu, 1 Mar 2001, Gary Springer wrote:

For 10 years I have been puzzled by my lack of success in attracting the
small cavity nesting song birds to nest in nest boxes in the forest.
...
But, I now have a theory that I hope to receive comment on from those of you
who have placed nest boxes in mature, deciduous, unmanicured forest that is
not park- like.

The theory is that these smaller birds have plenty of natural nesting sites

My situation is not exactly what you are looking for, but it does bear on
your questions. My 10 boxes (SC on the SC/GA border) last year were hung
in trees (as Linda Violett's in CA) at the edges of acres of mature
woodlands in our suburban town (population about 12k). In spite of the
adjacent acres of woodlands, I had three nestings of Tufted Titmice, plus
two of Eastern Bluebirds). Evidently the Titmice liked the roomy
nestboxes even though they should have been able to find lots of natural
sites in the adjacent woods.

Since I have pretty well saturated the good woods-edge sites this year, I
will probably be hanging some new boxes in deeper woods this time around.

Yours, Barry

Barry Whitney
North Augusta, SC -- Latitude: 33.50, Longitude: -81.98
A mile from the Savannah River and Augusta, GA, home of the Masters golf
tournament
Bluebird pages: http://www.crosswinds.net/~barryw/bluebird/mybb.htm
barrywhitney"at"unforgettable.com

Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 10:54:17 -0500
From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net
To: "judymellin" judymellin"at"netzero.net
Cc: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net, "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: nest boxes in forest

Hi Judy,

Because brambles have taken over your "woodland" there must be open areas in the canopy of trees. Otherwise there would not be sufficient light for the brambles to begin to grow.

The habitat you described before the brambles began to grow sounds more park-like than forest. And, nest boxes placed in this type of habitat are
relatively successful.

However, a mature deciduous forest has few openings in the canopy of trees, brambles will not grow, and it is this type of mature forest in which I
wrote that it seems the birds will not accept nest boxes for nesting sites.

Although for several years the forest may not look "pretty" to most people, letting the brambles grow will not delay the maturity of the forest. This
is part of the natural recovery period of a forest which can be allowed to progress without clearing and manicuring of the grounds.

If you let nature take care of the reforestation, when the forest matures it will consist of taller, straighter, trees and probably more species as well, including a wide variety of smaller trees that comprise the understory and which are important to the quality of the larger trees and dozens of
species of smaller plants.

Gary Springer

Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 13:31:16 -0800
From: "judymellin" judymellin"at"netzero.net
To: springer"at"alltel.net, "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: nest boxes in forest

Gary- I think you missed the point of my note. I was discussing the woodland floor, not the canopy. This area is nothing like a "park" but a naturally occurring oak grove that was a large part of the original prairie landscape that occupied the midsection of America before the settlers
arrived. This is where Eastern Bluebirds lived before our ancestors arrived and this is the habitat in the midsection of the country where they belong.

We are not "maturing" a forest and could not do such a thing even if we wanted to because forest has never existed here. We are not "reforesting"
anything but allowing new generation oaks to thrive in their native landscape. Blue jays and squirrels are our "reforestation" agents.

My point was that bluebirds had moved back into a cleared area that was populated by native grasses and forbs but moved out again when the ONLY change was in the openness of the woodland floor. I think you will find that bluebirds are birds of OPEN woodlands, not dense forests. Both Bent and Eastman, along with many other experts, have always listed this as their habitat. I expect this is part of the reason people have had luck with edge boxes, since the birds have foraging space.

We have been extensively restoring this area since 1989 and I have kept meticulous records of the 175 species of birds who have used the site and
the 72 confirmed nesting species there.

Judy Mellin

----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Springer springer"at"alltel.net
To: judymellin judymellin"at"netzero.net
Cc: Gary Springer springer"at"alltel.net; BLUEBIRD-L BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 7:54 AM
Subject: nest boxes in forest

Hi Judy,

Because brambles have taken over your "woodland" there must be open areas in
the canopy of trees. Otherwise there would not be sufficient light for the
brambles to begin to grow.

The habitat you described before the brambles began to grow sounds more
park-like than forest. And, nest boxes placed in this type of habitat are
relatively successful.

However, a mature deciduous forest has few openings in the canopy of trees,
brambles will not grow, and it is this type of mature forest in which I
wrote that it seems the birds will not accept nest boxes for nesting sites.

Although for several years the forest may not look "pretty" to most people,
letting the brambles grow will not delay the maturity of the forest. This
is part of the natural recovery period of a forest which can be allowed to
progress without clearing and manicuring of the grounds.

If you let nature take care of the reforestation, when the forest matures it
will consist of taller, straighter, trees and probably more species as
well, including a wide variety of smaller trees that comprise the understory
and which are important to the quality of the larger trees and dozens of
species of smaller plants.

Gary Springer

Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 14:54:30 -0500 (EST)
From: BluDahlia"at"webtv.net (George Newberger)
To: judymellin"at"netzero.net
Cc: springer"at"alltel.net, BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)
Subject: Re: nest boxes in forest

Hi Judy, Gary,and all:
This forest nesting discussion is interesting and viewing it from afar I can see a bit of mixing apples and oranges type thing. If I visualize correctly, judy, You have a prairie type woodland that is sometimes referred to as an Oak-opening. Big spreading Oaks(usually Quercus alba) encompassing large spaces that originally (before settlers) had an understory of prairie grasses and forbs. The forest land of Gary's northern Georgia is probably an entirely different type of woodland and therefore each will have it's own distinctive canopy characteristics. Judy, I comend you for all your work in attempting to restore your Oak woodland to it's original (pre-settler) state. I've had several work related relocations and two of these were in the westen & southern parts of Ohio where prairies were the original landscape feature. And I really felt an affinity for the Oak-openings---They were both majestic and unique.

If I may relate what the bigger boys told me---these Oak-openings were created and maintained by fire,both natural (lightning) and purposely set prairie grass fires by (if I may be politically incorrect) Indians. This I understand,facilitated their food--wild game-- securing activities. But the fire also destroyed the tree seedlings,brambles,etc.---as you were doing,Judy---but the grass would return with the first rainfall. That was their intent and how they maintained the prairie.

I imagine these Oak-openings would be an ideal habitat for BBs wih the openness and readily available forage insects. Could that have been the
natural range of BBs--- and when the forests were cleared it opened up additional habitat areas in the climax vegatation areas of typical Beech- Maple-Oak landscapes?

George N E Ohio

From: "Nicholas A. Zbiciak" nzbiciak"at"gfn.org
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 19:49:22 -0800
Subject: [bluebird] Cavity Blues!!!!!
Reply-To: bluebird"at"fsinc.com

Hi gang.

This evening, just before dark, I saw a pair of Eastern Blue Birds slip into a natural cavity in a large Cherry tree, directly out my back window!  This is way too cool!

I have two boxes in the garden, about 50 yards to the east. I had a family fledge 5 younguns in one of the boxes last year. Last fall I saw some of the younger ones checking out the cavity in the cherry tree. I am so excited to see some are roosting there now. I don't know if they'll nest in the tree, but I sure hope so.

Here's a question that I hope to get some help with: The cavity is quite close (about 10 yards) from my feeders, which actually hang from this tree's branch. Should I move the feeders? Will they nest this close to where other birds are hanging out for vittles?

Nicholas
Holly, Michigan
42nd Parallel

Excited about Blues roosting in the "Natural Cavity" in the tree in the back yard!!!!!

From: "MJShearer" eshearer"at"mediaone.net
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 20:15:57 -0500
Subject: Re: [bluebird] Cavity Blues!!!!!
Reply-To: bluebird"at"fsinc.com

Hi Nicholas,

I've had Bluebirds nest about 20 feet from our deck where a feeder hangs, and they didn't seem to mind at all. In fact, they continued to build a nest while carpenters hammered away on our house. I was surprised that they chose this box over another one that was about 50 feet away. The box faced away from the feeder, so they had a little more privacy.

Mary Jane
MJ
Tucker, GA

----- Original Message -----

From: "Nicholas A. Zbiciak" nzbiciak"at"gfn.org
To: bluebird"at"fsinc.com
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 10:49 PM
Subject: [bluebird] Cavity Blues!!!!!

Hi gang.

This evening, just before dark, I saw a pair of Eastern Blue Birds slip
into a natural cavity in a large Cherry tree, directly out my back window!
This is way too cool!

I have two boxes in the garden, about 50 yards to the east. I had a family
fledge 5 younguns in one of the boxes last year. Last fall I saw some of
the younger ones checking out the cavity in the cherry tree. I am so
excited to see some are roosting there now. I don't know if they'll nest
in the tree, but I sure hope so.

Here's a question that I hope to get some help with: The cavity is quite
close (about 10 yards) from my feeders, which actually hang from this
tree's branch. Should I move the feeders? Will they nest this close to
where other birds are hanging out for vittles?

Nicholas
Holly, Michigan
42nd Parallel

Excited about Blues roosting in the "Natural Cavity" in the tree in the
back yard!!!!!

Date: 25 Mar 2001 03:30:52 -0000
From: "Stan Merrill, St. Paul, MN" stan_bb"at"Messagez.com
Subject: Re:[bluebird] Cavity Blues!!!!!
Reply-To: bluebird"at"fsinc.com

Hi Nicholas:

I'll be interested in what other advice you receive; but I'm going to "shoot my mouth off" anyway...

What are your choices of re-locating your feeders?

I presently have a Peterson bluebird box hanging from our deck (hopeful, but not too optimistic of chances of its being selected); and bird feeders about 10-20 feet out in the yard (of our Townhome) on shepherd's poles and tree limbs.

In one tree I have a nestbox and a feeder; will watch and follow any inclinations, depending upon whether it is selected for nesting.

Last summer, for example, a robin built her nest under our neighbor's deck; and I did have a feeder in a tree about 10-15 feet out. Every time a bluejay flew to the feeder, she flew out after the jay; so I moved the feeder to a tree farther from her nest; and this seemed to solve the dilemma.

So, my advice would be to keep an eye on the situation and reaction according to your "gut feeling" as to how well the arrangement is working. Much would depend upon how "compatible" the birds attracted to your feeder are with the bluebirds.

Happy bluebirding!

Stan

This evening, just before dark, I saw a pair of Eastern Blue Birds slip
into a natural cavity in a large Cherry tree, directly out my back window!
This is way too cool!

I have two boxes in the garden, about 50 yards to the east. I had a family
fledge 5 younguns in one of the boxes last year. Last fall I saw some of
the younger ones checking out the cavity in the cherry tree. I am so
excited to see some are roosting there now. I don't know if they'll nest
in the tree, but I sure hope so.

Here's a question that I hope to get some help with: The cavity is quite
close (about 10 yards) from my feeders, which actually hang from this
tree's branch. Should I move the feeders? Will they nest this close to
where other birds are hanging out for vittles?

Nicholas
Holly, Michigan
42nd Parallel

Excited about Blues roosting in the "Natural Cavity" in the tree in the
back yard!!!!!

Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 09:29:12 -0400
From: Haleya Priest mablue"at"gis.net
To: BLUEBIRD-L BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu, Melvin Bolt mellen"at"sssnet.com,Gail Hensche ghansche"at"norfolk-county.com, Ed Nied enjr"at"valinet.com, Hart Millett HartMillett"at"netscape.net, Gigi DottyRogers"at"netscape.net
Subject: I've got natural cavity EABL!!!

Haleya Priest Amherst MA

Dear Ed, Gail, Robin, and Bluebird-L,

"My" EABL have been nesting in my yard for 3 years but got chased off by a mocker. I kept suspecting they might have found a natural cavity on our property and it is now confirmed!!!!   They are nesting in a dead beech - about 4-6" diameter - about 15' high which is located on our tree line about 175' from our house. The entrance hole is about 1-3/4". The cavity is big enough that when they feed I see just the tip of their tail in the entrance hole. Have scope set up in house for front row seating.   Will set up video and perhaps Ed and Gail would like to come take pix. Will keep all posted! If anyone in the New England area wants to come look or photograph we'd love to share it with you! Judging by the amount of MEWO's they take to the nest, they are still young. :-) H

Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 10:49:57 -0400
From: Haleya Priest mablue"at"gis.net
To: BLUEBIRD-L BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Natural Cavity nester report

Haleya Priest Amherst MA

I wish you could all be here to see this! Babies still alive. My observations are simple: bluebirds and natural cavities go well together. The naturalness of the tree, etc is beautiful along with the blue color of the EABL. Also, while there is vulnerability to predators, it is REALLY hard to spot this cavity and nesters unless you know where to look. Unlike our EABL boxes sitting out exposed for anyone and everyone to spot them - including human and animal predators! My other observations are about climate control. How much warmer they must have been than my box nesters last night during the frost and
how much COOLER they are under the shade of the trees! Will keep you all posted. It is a really spectacular to watch this unfold. :-)

Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:02:51 -0400
From: Haleya Priest mablue"at"gis.net
To: BLUEBIRD-L BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Natural Cavity Nester

Haleya Priest Amherst MA

Dear Bluebird-L If you haven't seen pictures of our bluebirds nesting in an old dead poplar you can still view them at: http://herper.tripod.com/mbahome.html   The babies fledged on May 14. (Relief!)   We weren't sure of they'd choose the natural cavity again or their old nestbox (which Mr Mocker had scared them away from-hence nesting in natural cavity) and sure enough they started a new nest in the nest box 3 days ago! :-) H

Is the advantage of nest boxes due to ease of monitoring or due to a lack of natural cavities?  The reason I ask is my back yard has always been full of Cardinals (32 at once) and every song bird you could imagine.  After reading this list for a few weeks I have started to notice more BB ( 6 pair yesterday) but I think they have always been there I just never paid attention.  After watching for a while I noticed they are going from feed area andpoultry aviaries (with nest materials) to one of the many old Oak trees I have on my 5 acres.  These trees are full of holes.  Is it worth my time to try boxes if the trees are being used already?  Should I just keep trapping sparrows and improving the environment with feeders water ...?
Thank you
Bruce Jenkins

http://communities.msn.com/RojosRoost/sparrowtrap.msnw 

From: "judymellin" judymellin"at"netzero.net
To: "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Natural Cavities vs. Boxes
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 16:38:57 -0800

How wonderful that the blues are using cavities!  They afford far more natural insulation than any box ever could and, truth be told, these cavities are where they belong.

So celebrate those old oaks- and those wonderful blues!

Judy Mellin
Green with envy in NE IL.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Linda & Bruce Jenkins
  To: kridler"at"1starnet.com ; BLUEBIRD-L
  Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 5:27 AM
  Subject: Natural Cavities vs. Boxes

...

Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:52:40 -0800 (PST)
From: The Doctor sytyf"at"yahoo.com
Subject: moral dilemma
To: BLUEBIRD BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu

Hi all,

There is a grand 'ole oak tree on the property that I rent in Illinois. It would take at least 2 1/2 people with arms length similar to mine to form a closed circle around the tree trunk by joining hands. The oak tree has many natural cavities in it. Recently cold, windy weather has shown that Starlings seek protection in the oak's cavities. The 'ole grand oak provides nesting spots for at least a dozen Starlings and a lesser number of HOSP. Loss of natural nesting cavities is one of the reasons for the large decline in the number of native cavity nesting birds. It is not practical to continually 'remove' nests from the tree's cavities. I am just having a problem deciding if I want, should and how to plug the tree's cavities.

Bob Sitarski

Jackson County Indiana & Clay County Illinois

Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:52:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Kerry Sweet ksweet3450"at"yahoo.com
Subject: Re: moral dilemma
To: Bluebird Messages bluebird-l"at"cornell.edu

Bob,

A couple of summers ago my family and I went on a camping trip to Sequoyah State Park in Wagoner Okla. where I seen plenty of Eastern Bluebirds (EABL).

While there I also saw a large tree with a natural cavity in it except the cavity was full of rocks. I just figured that it was the work of kids or something so I started to remove the rocks and found that the cavity was full of water and that the rocks must have been there for a reason so I promptly put them back.
 
I didn't know until Bob Walshaw informed me that Charlotte Jernigan (ex-President of NABS, the founder of the Oklahoma Bluebird Society and the person who inspired the poem THE BLUEBIRD LADY) had her Bluebird trail there.

Obviously the tree was a hazard to our Native Cavity Nesters and therefore it was plugged up and no further usable. It sounds like your large Oak tree could only be a hazard to our Native Cavity Nesters by being a shelter and breeding place for "The Enemy".

My vote is to plug it up!

Good Luck with your decision.
Kerry in NE corner of Okla.

--- The Doctor sytyf"at"yahoo.com wrote:

Hi all,

There is a grand 'ole oak tree on the property that I rent in

...

Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 20:53:16 -0400
From: Haleya Priest mablue"at"gis.net
To: judymellin"at"netzero.net
CC: BLUEBIRD-L BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Natural Cavities vs. Boxes

Haleya Priest Amherst MA
    Last year my blues had to nest in a cavity in our yard since Mr Mocker chased them off...
    I can tell you that the shade was fantastico. HOWEVER, they had a really stressful time protecting the cavity from god knows what - but I'd hear them every so often freaking out out there. At one point I thought the babies were fledging because they were making such racket.
    Mr Mocker had his own mate by the time the blues second nesting came around so instead of the cavity they chose the nest box both for their 2nd and third nesting and are very interested in the nest box this year also.
    Frankly, while the cavity was very novel, I was quite happy when they chose the nest box again.
    So perhaps the grass is always greener on the other side! :-) H

judymellin wrote:

   How wonderful that the blues are using cavities!  They afford far

...

From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net
To: ljenkins1"at"cox-internet.com, "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Cc: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net
Subject: bluebirds carrying nest material to oak trees
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:19:25 -0500

Hi Bruce,

You wrote:

"Is the advantage of nest boxes due to ease of monitoring or due to a lack of natural cavities?  The reason I ask is my back yard has always been full of Cardinals (32 at once) and every song bird you could imagine.  After reading this list for a few weeks I have started to notice more BB ( 6 pair yesterday) but I think they have always been there I just never paid attention.  After watching for a while I noticed they are going from feed area and poultry aviaries (with nest materials) to one of the many old Oak trees I have on my 5 acres.  These trees are full of holes.  Is it worth my time to try boxes if the trees are being used already?  Should I just keep trapping sparrows and improving the environment with feeders water ...?
Thank you"

If you don't have any nest boxes put up in the area around the oak trees, I'd love to know how they'd respond to one or more boxes placed in the vicinity of the oak trees with natural cavities about 50 feet from any tree branches and at least 250 feet from the one oak tree the bluebirds are already carrying nest material to.  The bluebirds here seem to strongly prefer nest boxes out away from the trees than they do natural cavities.

I'm sorry if I missed it, but in what state did you say you live?

If you decide to put up any nest boxes, please let me know.

Sincerely,

Gary Springer

From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net
To: "The Doctor" sytyf"at"yahoo.com, "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Cc: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net
Subject: reducing hole sizes of natural cavities.
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:30:07 -0500

Hi Bob,

When I lived in a more urban setting there was a large maple tree that had a natural cavity in which starlings nested continually, until I plugged the hole with a block of wood cut to the shape of the cavity and with an inch and a half hole drilled in the center of it.

Then a tufted titmouse took it over.

You could use this strategy on some of the natural cavities so some of the smaller native birds have a place to nest and block the rest to save work.

Gary Springer

From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com
To: "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: natural cavities/closing holes in trees
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:08:21 -0600

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
Temperature has dropped 23*F since midnight and now at 31*F we are getting rain.

Natural cavities:Ok woodpeckers don't place drainage holes in cavities but do leave several inches of chips that would tend to keep eggs above light rain accumulating in the cavity. Bluebirds don't often clean out old nests so once again their nests tend to stay above the bottom and actually get higher the more nests they build. A lady mentioned finding a cavity filled with rocks and then water in the cavity. It was in a park used by the long time president of NABS, Charlotte Jernigan.

Without asking we won't know if Charlotte filled the cavity or some kids. I often find bluebird boxes filled with dirt or stones that are located where children play. This cavity might actually be OK for the birds to use in late May or June when the Great Crested flycatcher arrives to nest and rains are few and far between in Tulsa Oklahoma! Natural cavities in rotted wood tend to be short lived. Those in living trees can last for many years.
IF you found one of your nestboxes filled with rocks would you clean it or leave it filled? Since you can reach the cavity filled with rocks and water I would empty the rocks and use a cordless drill and drain the water from the cavity possibly creating a roosting site or a cavity for wildlife. A cavity is NOT just for nesting birds! Hundreds of species of insects, arachnids, mammals, rodents, reptiles and yes birds often need a cavity for their survival.

Closing cavities: IF you are able bodied enough to climb into large or small trees to plug cavities to prevent Starlings from nesting then I would NOT do this but would build trap boxes for the Starlings. Just moving them out of our yards where we will not see them harassing or killing the native birds only means they are doing it down the street where no one cares whether it happens or not! The ONLY way to prevent a pair of non-native starlings or House sparrows from nesting and increasing their population this year is by trapping and PERMANENTLY removing them from the environment this summer! If you cannot kill them then keep them in a large flight cage all summer! They tame quickly, eat cheap food and can be fun to study!
In the 1911 copywrite book, "BIRDS THAT WORK FOR US" BY Col. Isaac W. Brown he states that a captive male "English Sparrow" when kept with canaries learned to imitate their songs until by the end of summer he had the best voice of the entire flock!

There are shortages of cavities for MANY of our native birds already but there is NO shortage of nesting sites for Starlings! Starlings tend to quit nesting in my area by June and then there is a flurry of nesting by the native birds that were prevented from nesting all spring! IF we remove these cavities then we are depriving the natives also.

Kevin Bloom, our other young (17 now I believe) bluebirder wrote to me recently about trapping several hundred starlings from his yard this winter and "freeing" up hundreds of natural cavities since these starlings were not going to be nest hunting this spring! He only trapped part time after school and one morning of the weekend since he is working.

Each of us should have at least 2 flicker sized boxes in our yard. If starlings move into them we should trap and remove them. Installing the Van Ert live traps in these boxes only one morning a week will often remove a pair of starlings per box per week for nearly the entire spring.

As always the opinions I express are based on my experiences and my beliefs. DO NOT feel guilty if YOU cannot harm another living creature for there are two sides to this issue and neither side is completely right or wrong! KK

Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:57:19 -0800 (PST)
From: j j_bird717"at"yahoo.com
Subject: Natural Cavities
To: BLUEBIRD-L BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu

Hi all,

On Wednesday I spent the day birding in Maryland along the Susquehanna river/upper Chesapeake bay.Although I didn't find the water birds I was looking for but still a good day. Walking the trail from Susquehanna state park to Conowingo dam made for a great morning. Almost every tree had a cavity and many had quite a few. Cavity nesters were everywhere: woodpeckers, titmice, chickadees, nut-hatches, Carolina wrens and house wrens. Tree swallows were abundant over the water. House wrens and tree swallows are still not at the park, less than fifty miles north.

One of the most interesting finds was a chickadee working on a nest. The cavity was a mere slit in the tree, about a three quarters of an inch wide and two inches long. To enter he had to land on the tree sideways and crawl in that way. It appeared to be quite a stuggle but I watched him exit many times carrying what appeared to be old nesting material rather than decayed wood fibers. This continued for a while when another chickadee appeared. Lots of singing while the other bird carried on with the work. When a third bird appeared the chase began. I waited for a while and only one bird returned but didn't enter the hole. With all the available cavities it amazed me that this would be their choice, but when you consider the protection this spot would offer, they couldn't have made a better choice. Few birds would be able to fit and it might even do pretty well against most predators.

If more areas like this existed there would be a lot of out of business nestbox monitors.

So long for now,

=====
Jim Elliot
East Prospect, York County, PA
39.9671135 N -76.5293884 W
Elevation 400'
j_bird717"at"yahoo.com

From: "Jacque Turner" turner"at"texasisp.com
To: "BLUEBIRD" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: New Rental Property vs. Natural Cavities
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2002 21:43:59 -0600

I guess you have to find humor in all situations or you just might go mad!

Here is the scenario:
Brand new bluebird trail.
Currently 15 bluebird houses and 2 chickadee size houses up. Four more houses waiting to be put up. Lots of time spent deciding what type of mounting system best for this area. Much time spent reading books and internet information. Consider whether to go ahead and pre-install predator determent and do that. Houses prepared for Texas heat. Careful consideration of where to strategically place houses and which direction to face houses. Have teenage son mow nice little front yards for several of the houses to make rental property more desirable. (Houses are out in the country in pasture - lots of broom weed!) Require husband's help several afternoons to get bottom post into hard dry West Texas ground. Require several days of father-in-law's help designing, welding and making the post, predator guards, extra insulation for houses, etc. This list could go on, but I'm sure you're already worn out with this, so...

...I know this was a lot of houses to start with being new to this and all. My goal this year was to be satisfied just to entice one pair of bluebirds - ONE - then shoot for a higher number the next nesting season. We are not moved out to where the trail is yet, so daily enticements for the birds are not there yet. Bluebirds have been seen on the property, but each time I check boxes, no bluebird nests. Somewhat disappointed, but not totally. I do have a couple of titmouse nests, one with 7 eggs, and a wren has built in one of the smaller houses, and I have been satisfied with that.

Late this afternoon I went to the place and just sat in the car and waited for activity. It was cold and rainy. Not springtime weather. Soon there he was, Mr. Blue (EABL) flying here and there, so I roll the window down and see that Mrs. Blue is sitting on fence and tracking down insects or grubs also. Sit there wondering where these two have set up housekeeping. Watch male with binoculars gather up a worm and fly to where I'd seen the female fly a few minutes earlier and watch thinking I'd see some of this behavior of the male feeding the female. What do I see him do? I see him fly to the front of a dead tree stump and hang on the front of it momentarily before flying off again. WHAT? Surely there isn't a hole in that dead tree stump! I get out and walk out in the pasture to investigate and sure enough - A NATURAL CAVITY! No extra heat protection offered here. No extension roof on top. No predator guards. One of my favorite trees on the property, post oak, beautifully shaped and gorgeous even in the dead of winter when it was just a skeleton, struck down by lightning about four years ago. Incidentally - the hole faces due East. The entrance is probably right at 5 feet. There really is nothing for the little guys to land on when they fly out of the nest - nothing directly in front of them anyway. There is a nice little patch of Indian Paintbrushes growing out their front door. Maybe that was the draw! There is also a bluebird house I put up about 100 feet northeast of this nest.

Now I ask the experts - Can I officially slap a number on this stump and count it as "birds fledged" in the year 2002, if I actually see the little guys fly out? Obviously I can not look into this house to monitor it. And I have no way of knowing what stage the babies are at right now. And I can't sit out there 24/7 or even 12/7 to witness the babies coming out of the nest. Both parents are feeding at the hole of the nest, so obviously the small ones have hatched. Is there a certain time of the day babies tend to fledge, like do they tend to wake up one day and fly early in the AM?

My next question - is it a bad idea to set up a mealworm station right there close to this nest? Am I asking for trouble from other birds in the area, that might discover where a free meal is waiting and cause interference with Mr. & Mrs. Blue? I was thinking of just putting an open platform type out there right now. I do have one of the see through feeders with the entrance hole on the side, but thought they might catch on to something open better to begin with. And then again, the babies may fledge tomorrow!

Does anyone else see the humor in this?

Jacque Turner
Breckenridge, Texas

Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 07:20:23 -0400
From: Pamela Ford jpford"at"comcast.net
Subject: RE: New Rental Property vs. Natural Cavities
To: turner"at"texasisp.com, BLUEBIRD BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu

How funny! Maybe they didn't want to rent and choose to buy instead ;-)

I don't see any reason why you shouldn't report on this nesting. You just wouldn't be able to give definitive numbers. As the fledglings get older you may see them at the hole to get food, you may be able to get an approximate number then (depends on the size of the hole and how many heads fit in it!)

Don't give up hope on your well-planned homes. There will be other blues who may appreciate your efforts more!

Pam in Abingdon, Harford County, Maryland
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu [mailto:owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu]On
Behalf Of Jacque Turner
Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 10:44 PM
To: BLUEBIRD
Subject: New Rental Property vs. Natural Cavities

...

From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com
To: "BLUEBIRD-L" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: counting birds in natural cavities
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 08:25:49 -0500

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
I normally monitor and count birds in natural cavities or mailboxes if I can to compare their success or failure to other styles of nestboxes. By using a flash light and a dental mirror or mechanics mirror you should be able to count the number of chicks in the cavity.

This also works very well for checking up on chicks that you feel are getting to old to open up the nestbox. I personally believe in my area that careful checking, up to the day of fledging is better than leaving them alone the last week. A soft drumming on the nestbox sides with your fingers will normally get the young to huddle down into the nest cup. If the box opens easily and smoothly then cracking a side or top slowly open only enough to see that their are no dead babies is helpful. I don't even need to get a complete head count if they look to be ready to fledge. IF you have a box style where you have to remove the nest or reach in and bend the nestcup down then I would NOT do this if I knew the chicks were getting above the 14 day range. For long trails we often have to guess within a week what the age of the young birds are so we often check these birds just as they are about to fledge! Careful monitoring with slow, smooth movements around the chicks normally will keep them calm. IF the parents are calling in an agitated voice at your arrival to the box then they can "call" the chicks out of the box easier than you can normally frighten them out!

Natural woodpecker holes in trees are normally a pretty good cavity for protection against heat and cold as the tremendous mass of some logs will even out the temperatures. Using a mirror you should be able to estimate the size of the cavity and by measuring the trunk determine the wall thickness of this "nestbox". KK

Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 08:42:13 -0500
To: Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)
From: Kate Oschwald bbnestbox"at"1starnet.com
Subject: Re: New Rental Property vs. Natural Cavities

At 09:43 PM 4/6/02 -0600, you wrote:
I guess you have to find humor in all situations or you just might go

...

I wouldn't worry about Texas heat--remember the thicker the wood, the more insulation, and trees are a lot thicker-walled than any nestboxes we construct!

While some indicate that young birds fledge early in the day, I have never caught any in the act myself. To some extent you can still determine fledging by noting whether parents are still flying to the cavity with food for the young. Lack of activity indicates the babies are gone. Of course they could be lost due to predators, but if they have flown to some tree, you can listen for the activity, even if you can't see the young birds in the tree.

I personally would not set up a mealworm station nearby, in case you draw the attention of predators.

Kate Oschwald
Paris, TX
100 mi NE of Dallas
33.6853N 95.6293W

From: "judymellin" judymellin"at"netzero.net
To: "BLUEBIRD" BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Re: New Rental Property vs. Natural Cavities
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 15:00:25 -0700

Some of us see the humor and the wonder of nature- nature will take these birds to a natural home long before they will even look at a "pre-fab".

Rejoice that the creatures have the good sense to know that a tree cavity will give them far more protection any box ever could. And who cares whether you can "count" them or not? Just marvel in their beauty and their presence. If your boxes are used, all well and good but, if not, so what? You are witnessing something that a lot of folks on this list never will-unless you invite them to the viewing!

Judy Mellin
NE IL.

----- Original Message -----
From: Pamela Ford
To: turner"at"texasisp.com ; BLUEBIRD
Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 4:20 AM
Subject: RE: New Rental Property vs. Natural Cavities

...

From: "Susan Wagener" susan"at"cranberrybend.com
To: bluebird-l"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L)
Subject: Blue Bird nest in non-Blue Bird House
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:49:27 -0500

I'm new to this list and wanted to share the events of the last week.

I put up a Blue Bird house with the baffle etc.  Then noticed activity around an older log cabin bird house we have hanging under the eve of our shed.  I watched to see what type of bird was using it and it is a Blue Bird!  As of yesterday, we have two eggs.  We are going to have to watch it closely so nothing can get to the nest since it's not on a pole with a baffle.  We are considering putting up sheet metal on the shed and on the roof.  However, I don't want to bake the bird house by attracting the sun. The shed is a wood and a dark brown, so it probably attracts the sun too. This house is hard to see in because you have to unscrew the top to open it up.  For now I'm up on a small ladder with a flash light looking into the house opening.

Here is a link to pictures I took since last week of the activity:

www.cranberrybend.com/birdpics.htm 

Susan Wagener
Nashville, Indiana
www.cranberrybend.com
20 miles east of Bloomington
50 miles south of Indianapolis

Nesting Cavities other than Nestboxes (Part 2)