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Number of Broods per Year (Part 1)Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 12:15:47 -0400 It has been exactly one week since the last of four nestlings fledged from our backyard bluebird box. It was the second nesting of this year. After a week of frantically taking insects and meal worms to the trees across the field, the parent bluebird pair are now into the nest building mode again. The male is sitting watch on the nest while the female brings dry grass. Their fledgling feeding activity seems to have slowed down a bit. I've read on this list about multple nestings of bluebirds being common. I'm curious about whether the number depends on the calendar (or length of days since they don't use a day planner), conditions, feeding demand of fledglings, etc. I live in northeastern Maryland. Are three nestings common here? Last year I had only one, very late, successful nesting due to HOSP pressure. This year I've trapped. Are four nestings possible? Do I increase the chances for more nestings by supplementing mealies? or is that just satisfying my own desire to feed and watch? Are later fledglings more at risk for trouble over the winter? Thanks in advance for the replies. This kind of valuable information/observation/experience can't be found in books. Pam in Abingdon, Harford County, Maryland
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 17:23:08 -0500 Hi Judy, You are not that far from me, I'm in Niagara Ontario. I have had some pair return to use the bird bath with their babies, but unfortunately, once fledged I rarely see them in my yard again. The good new is your pair will probably nest again. The past few years my pair have successfully raised 3 broods each year. Alas this year I have what I will call the "storm fatalities" but we are on attempt 3 and the 5 eggs look good so far. Norrie, ON
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 18:45:29 -0500 My BB are on there 4th nesting. Although, I seldom see the parents return with the fledglings. After the babies fly off, the parents return or another pair and start another nest in a nearby box within 3 weeks. They seem to alternate between two boxes. Sharon in Waco, Texas
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 20:05:30 -0400 Keith, et al, When you write about 4th nestings in "several northern areas," where do you mean? Northern Texas, maybe? Or northern U.S.? Bruce Burdett, SW NH
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 22:04:08 -0500 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas Bruce and all, I believe Malinda in Michigan had four nestings in a single season last year and someone else also in a northern state had a fourth nesting. Both of them were feeding mealworms to the bluebirds I believe. KK
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 10:30:02 -0400 Haleya Priest AMherst MA I was really fascinated by the discussion of the # of broods per season varying on geographical location. Burdett lives a good 3 hours or so north of me and his EABLs only have one brood per season. I wonder about Rhonda - she is between Bruce and myself. I have 100% second nestings - only a third nesting with mealworm fed EABLs. Laura and Nancy in CT? Would love to find out from those all the way down the east coast into Florida. Where do the ranges between 1-2-3-4 broods a season begin and end?? Make sure to make a clear distinction between mealworm fed broods and those that aren't fed any mealworms. :-) H
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 10:37:07 -0400 ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Haleya Priest mablue"at"gis.net Hi Haleya & All: In Middletown, MD, central/western MD I have one box presently on THIRD NESTING. This count may increase as of late today. This box has year-round Eastern Bluebirds and have been fed mealworms during winter & summer to supplement insects/berries. This same couple has so far fledged ten babies. The Antietam Nestcam camera is not working, will visit site later today to see if third nesting there has begun (they, too, are mealworm supplemented). Will advise if third nest is under way. Betty Nichols, Middletown, MD ========================================================================= Haleya Priest AMherst MA ...
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 13:02:26 EDT Laura, Marlborough, CT I live in central CT and have had bluebirds nesting for 18 years straight. Only one pair at a time nests in my yard (with one exception - one male and 2 females raised broods simultaneously). Two broods per season were fledged without mealworm feeding for 15 of those 18 years. This is only the second time I've fed the blues mealworms and both seasons the pair (different pair) raised 3 broods. The pair from last year stayed over winter with 2 fledglings and I fed them Bluebird Banquet and mealworms throughout the winter. They got a head start on breeding and are presently incubating 6 eggs for their 3rd brood. I think the mealworm feeding must make the difference!
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 13:58:55 -0500 Hi Haleya & All, This morning *we* have 4 new baby BB's! This is the 3rd. brood for this pair of EABLs. Their first brood had 5, the 2nd. brood (with 1st egg laid 5 days after the first ones fledged), had 4 fledglings. They had the new nest build in a nest box several feet away before the 2nd brood fledged, and she laid her 1st egg for the 3rd. brood the same day that the 2nd. brood fledged. The 1st brood fledged on the 18th. day, and the 2nd brood fledged on the 19th. day. Yes... I do feed meal worms. I used Fawzi's plans for building the meal worm feeder. It works great, and gives me a chance to watch the fledgling when they start following their parents to the feeder. (I put mealworms out in the early morning, and again around 8:00 p.m.). Sue ---------- Haleya Priest mablue"at"gis.net wrote: Haleya Priest AMherst MA ...
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 14:12:18 EDT Haleya and all... Until this year I always had three nestings in my yard. I always feed mealworms. However, this year for a variety of reasons, I did not feed as regularly. Was there any connection that the attempted second nesting was made very late? Or that I lost one female? My guess is not...but?? The nest was abandoned with 5 eggs in it. A new female arrived a few weeks later.... I could tell she was new cause she hadn't a clue about my whistle or the mealies.. Anyway, I'm just on a second (hopefully successful) nesting now. Nancy
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 14:09:32 -0400 Haleya, et al, Slight correction, Haleya. Here in Sunapee, NH, I sometimes do have 2nd nestings, but they are the exception rather than the rule. I'm a long way from 100% 2nd nestings, however. 3rd nestings are rare, and usually not successful because the cold weather catches up with them. Bruce Burdett, SW NH
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 14:20:21 -0400 Of the five boxes I monitor in suburban Washington, DC (about an hour south of Betty Nichols), the three occupied by blues this summer (titmice in the other two) have had completed second nestings/fledgings of 4. Two of the three adult pairs have been mealworm fed since April. We shall see which, if any, attempt a third nesting. Last summer two of the pairs (I'm assuming the same pair claimed the same box each time) attempted third nestings--one pair successfully fledged four, the other had four hatchlings but none fledged (snake predation, probably). Diane Seward ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haleya Priest" mablue"at"gis.net ...
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 13:43:19 -0500 Hello, I have EABL's nesting in my backyard. They laid their first eggs starting on 3/16/01 and have nested 3 broods since that time. One to two days after each brood has fledged, they feverishly begin on the next nest and have it completed in a matter of two day. While the female is building the nest, the male is feeding the fledglings from the abundance of mealworms that I provide for them. On July 10th the third brood fledged and I removed the old nest and reflected on a good year of bluebird nesting. The next day we started seeing the same activity at the nest. The bluebirds were again building another nest. I live in a town between Dallas and Fort Worth, Texas. We are starting to have days of extreme heat (100 degrees+). I am concerned that it going to be too hot to successfully raise some nestlings in the kind of heat that we are going to have here. I would appreciate your advice and input on helping them successfully raise this fourth brood. Mike Scarbrough P.S. How common is it for bluebirds to have 4 broods?
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 12:09:00 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Haleya asked about # of broods for eastern blues on the east coast but I'll expand the range by stating that I've only had two *successful* nestings from any box/site during a season with western blues on the west coast. The only time I have had 3 attempts is when an attempt fails. Most of my trail birds do not receive daily mealworms; but even those that have nestbox neighbors pampering them with daily mealworms do not have 3 successful nestings. Haleya Priest wrote: Haleya Priest AMherst MA ...
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 15:34:28 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA Nancy, I sure don't know if there is a correlation -however, it is an interesting question. I've been wondering something similar: The only other pair of EABL that I feed mealies to other than my backyard EABLs is one early bird nester on my trail. Last year I fed them ( 1x every 1-3 days about a T. of mealies) while it was cold and god awful in the early spring - (I got hooked) but then stopped after each brood fledged. They've only produced 2 broods last year which is the norm here. This year I kept feeding between broods and she is making her third nest. Whether there is any correlation, I sure don't know. But I haven't had any other of my EABL produce 3 broods that aren't mealworm fed so this is interesting. H MSBOC"at"aol.com wrote: Haleya and all... ...
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 20:08:24 -0400 Although it does happen occasionally, it is uncommon for me to have 3 broods per season. Two broods are the norm and I don't feed mealworms. Terri Kromel ----- Original Message ----- From: Haleya Priest ...
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 20:22:12 -0400 I have had Blue Bird houses for several years now, and currently there is a pair on their second nest. The 4 eggs hatched last Monday and everything appears fine. I have never feed them anything just allowing nature to takes it course. But with all the Posts about feeding meal worms that changes last Friday. I went to my favorite Wild Birds Unlimited store and bought a feeder and some worms. The feeder is made of Cedar with wood sides and Plexiglas front and back with holes that the birds can enter. Having never used worm before, I don't know how they are supposed to react. I put some in, check the feeder an hour later and it was empty. I put some more in and this time watched it. After about 20 minutes I saw the worms crawling up the wood, and out between the Plexiglas and roof. I suspect that they needed these 20 minutes to warm up since they were in the refrigerator. I didn't think these worms were suppose to move this much. Can someone let me know if I am doing something incorrect, or is there a another way to feed these meal worms? Thanks -----Original Message----- From: owner-BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu ...
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 20:46:00 -0400 Michael, et al, About the simplest mealworm feeder I know of is a plain Corning glass dessert dish about 5" in diam. You can put it on your deck or porch railing, or on a little pole-mounted platform, or in an empty bird-bath, or on a fence-post, or on top of a boulder, or just on the lawn. They can't crawl out because the sides are too steep and slippery. Bruce Burdett, SW NH
Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 23:13:20 EDT I'm not from the East coast, but I have had an EABL trail since 1995 and three broods seem the norm here: Mealworms No Mealworms 1995 (4 boxes) 1 pair-3 broods 1996 (same) 1 pair-1 brood 1997 (same) 1 pair-2 broods 1998 (same) 1 pair-3 broods 1999 (same) 1 pair-3 broods 2000 ( 8 boxes) 1 pair-2 broods 2 pair-3 broods 2001 (same) 3 pair-3 broods Edie Lotz
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 08:35:19 -0400 Would I be correct in saying that the further south you are the more likely you are to have 2nd, 3rd, and 4th nestings? Bruce Burdett, NH Bluebird Conspiracy, Sunapee NH
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 08:09:58 -0500 I don't think that is a correct assumption. I can only speak for my experience, but I had NO nests until very late March this year, far later than normal, and mybirds are done nesting now..so, the season was just about exactly three months long. BTW, I live in NW Florida, Bruce. Phil Berry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com ...
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 10:28:23 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA I've been trying to figure out where the line is drawn between 1-2-3-4 broods down the East Coast but admit defeat as most people who sent in their stats feed mealies! So as far as I can tell, from the no mealworm fed broods: Mid New Hampshire: 1 brood If others want to fill in the blank please do! Obviously this is a very unscientific survey and there are variations most likely with altitude, etc - and no conclusions should be drawn - but am still curious where the lines are drawn. H :-) Bruce Burdett wrote: Would I be correct in saying that the further south you are
the more
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 09:41:36 -0500 My bluebirds are on their third clutch, incubating, laying and building nests. I never feed mealworms as crickets, grasshoppers and other insects are abundant. I always have third clutches. Evelyn Cooper ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haleya Priest" mablue"at"gis.net ...
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 10:37:39 -0400 Hi Haleya, As soon as the TBN data starts rolling in, we can help to answer the question of number of broods as a factor of latitude. The data is collected with a specific latitude and longitude attached to each nest box, so it is pretty precise. The deadline for submitting TBN data is September 30th, so it will still be a while before I can analyze anything, but at least you'll have a more scientific response to your query. Tina Phillips At 10:28 AM 7/16/01 -0400, Haleya Priest wrote: Haleya Priest Amherst MA ...
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 09:38:22 -0500 Hi All, This number of broods has me intrigued. I do not feed the blues mealworms . I usually have 3 broods a year if it is an experienced pair. I only get one pair on my lot and they usually reuse the same box. They have 4 boxes to choose from. They have been in all of them at one point or another. I usually see nest building start in mid April and have my first brood fledge late May and them we start again. I am about 10 km from Lake Ontario though above the escarpment so I don't get the same weather as those closer to the lake. I own 1 1/4 acres and am surrounded on three sides by vineyards and have a horse pasture on the other side. I realize that I am much further South than many of the Western States but I am definitely much more North than many of you. The blue birds sometimes winter in Jordan Valley about 5 km from me, I see them on and off all winter. It would be interesting to know when first nesting begins for others. It sounds like the availablity of food is a major factor in determining the # of broods . I'm sure location is a factor too but with lake effects...it would be quite a study to undertake. Norrie Jordan Ontario
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 09:50:17 -0500 I forgot to mention in my last post that I do feed raisins all winter. They love them. Evelyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haleya Priest" mablue"at"gis.net ...
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 10:53:08 -0400 Norrie, et al, Your report of three clutches in ONTARIO (!) is astonishing to me down here in New Hampshire, where one is the norm and two happens about half the time. I certainly look forward to the results of Tina's survey. Bruce Burdett, SW NH blueburd"at"srnet.com
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 11:30:39 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA Dear Bluebird-L - Tina Phillips at Cornell and the TBN are the real scientists painstakingly taking our data and making sense of it. This is an opportunity to remind everyone to send your nesting data!!!!!! This is how we'll truly learn answers to the questions like the ones we are posing! The Birdhouse Network (TBN) formerly the Cornell Nestbox Network
(CNBN) Also send data to NABS/ The Transcontinental Bluebird Trail http://www.bluebirdtrails.org/tbt/tbt.htm Instructions Tina Phillips wrote: Hi Haleya, ...
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 10:16:11 -0500 Hi Tina--- When considering the number of broods that the TBN data analyzes, isn't it assumed the same box is used for all broods? Several of my bluebird pairs this season did not raise their second brood in the same box, but another one nearby. I know this for sure for one pair because it is the only pair that has a female that lays white eggs. So, if these bluebirds raise yet another brood in either the same box (as the first or second) or in a totally new box, how would the TBN know this is three broods for that pair and not single broods by three pairs? Or, can the TBN tell just by looking at "clusters" of nesting cycles that three broods actually occurred? This is the way I estimate how many nests I had in the first, second, or third rounds of nesting, by looking at clusters of nesting cycles. Jay Gilliam -----Original Message----- From: Tina Phillips [mailto:cbp6"at"cornell.edu] ...
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 12:33:39 EDT Rhonda Watts I usually have 2nd nestings, but have never had a third. Right now, I have 2 boxes with nestlings (all but 1 hatched-- first time round, both had unhatched eggs). The third had warm eggs as of 4 days ago (might have hatched; with haying I'm not sure of dates on that one). The fourth box was late to begin with; as of the same 4 days ago, no nest material for a second attempt, so maybe they aren't going for a second brood. Fourteen EABLs fledged so far. I still have one box of TRES--it was a late attempt, one of the paired TRES. The other box (A) had one TRES nest attempt, the mother died (at least, I found a dead TRES about 20ft from the box); a second pair took it over and laid eggs which were warm at one point; then the aforementioned box (B) of the pair was taken, also by TRES; but the first box (A) and eggs must have been abandoned at some point, since the eggs are still there. I actually had *lots* of unhatched eggs this year; most of the boxes had 1-2 eggs which didn't hatch. This included 2 of the 4 EABL (first brood); about half of the 15 TRES; the sole chickadee; and one of the 2nd brood EABL. Also--that poor chickadee--that was the one whose first nest (and eggs) were taken over by a TRES, who finally fledged 5 from the unaltered chickadee nest! The chickadee moved to the other box of the pair, laid 4 eggs of which 2 hatched and fledged. Today. while checking electric fence line, I found what sure looks like an old chickadee nest in a rotted hole in the crotch of a tree. *Not* a hole in the side of a tree, but a cup like that of the EABLs in the fence post last year! It was moss and fur, a bit ruffled up as if perhaps a mouse had messed about with it, but not nearly the bits of bark and grass one would expect in a used or occupied mouse nest. (I picked through it--no mouse.) Rhonda
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 12:09:07 -0700 Well, I admit that I'm very confused by all of this! Some folks are reporting on what appears to be the same pair of adults and some are reporting on the nestings by various adults on an entire trail. I was under the impression that the interest was in how many nestings came from the same pair of adults and I have wondered how folks could be sure about this unless the birds were banded. I would think that only folks with backyard boxes would have any hope of knowing if these adults were the same and, even then, I wonder how we could be "sure" that these were the same adults. I have seen five nestings on my nine box trail but I would have no idea if these were from a very prolific pair of adults or from anywhere from 2-5 different pairs. I'm quite sure it is the latter but I would have no way of telling how many pairs are involved. Are we mixing apples and oranges or am I missing something here- and it wouldn't be the first time! Judy Mellin ----- Original Message ----- From: Haleya Priest mablue"at"gis.net ...
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 15:19:34 -0500 At 10:28 AM 7/16/01 -0400, you wrote: Haleya Priest Amherst MA ... I don't feed mealworms, and typically get three nestings in one nestbox. My location is 17 miles south of the Oklahoma state line, and 655 mi north of Brownsville (as my father drives--maybe a little less as the crow, or bluebird, flies) ;-) Yes, Texas is a BIG state! Kate Oschwald
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 09:11:00 -0700 Hi All: It follows, however, that more insects are present longer in warmer climates. (Provided it doesn't get so hot and dry that the insects are adversely affected.) Latitude affects warmth if it's not counteracted by elevation or major weather disturbances. We followed first nestings here in California this year and found the weather was abnormally cold in parts of the State and the first nestings were delayed, thus resulting in fewer broods overall. But normally the south has more third broods than the north. Though a different species, my Mountain Bluebirds at 8000 feet
have only one. I looked for two this year because we had the
warmest May on record and Over time, the southern latitudes should produce more insects and more insectivorous birds. Hatch Graham Haleya Priest wrote: Haleya Priest Amherst MA ... Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 14:09:50 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Hatch, according to your post, I should be having at least some boxes with three successful broods of westerns but that does not occur on my trail. I'm south of you in warm Calif. and a few of my trail boxes have the luxury of doting neighbors who offer mealworms. However, I've never had three *successful* nestings of western bluebirds in any one box, let alone by one pair. Hatch Graham wrote: The number of broods probably is ... Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 21:33:09 -0700 I have been going to post this for a while but haven't had the time. For those who believe what the "experts" have to say (as I do), this may help to answer some of the current questions on who, what, where, when and why young are found dead. This is lengthy but I hope you find it worthwhile. This comes from my favorite resource book, Ornithology by Frank Gill: "Brood Reduction: A Retrospective Adjustment One way that birds cope with uncertainties about the maximum number of young they can raise in any particular year is to lay the number of eggs that should be successful in good years and then to sacrifice some of those eggs if necessary. Brood reduction, as this strategy is called, protects parents against loss of the entire brood should conditions for raising young be poor (O'Conner, 1978). Parents can apportion their reproductive efforts selectively among the offspring in a clutch in several ways, including laying eggs of different sizes or nutritional qualities, or selective feeding of certain offspring. Parents may also start incubation before the last egg is laid, a strategy that promotes asynchronous hatching and sacrifices the younger siblings. In addition to brood reduction, asynchronous hatching provides several potential advantages to parents. For example, hatching asynchronously staggers the peak feeding demands of the chicks, which reduces stress on the parents and increases fledging success when food is in short supply. By establishing a feeding rank hierarchy within the brood that is based primarily on age and size, and not on sex, asynchronous hatching also tends to equalize the survival of the sexes, especially in species with pronounced sexual size dimorphism (Slagvold, 1990). Brood reduction range from overt siblicide to more subtle, selective elimination of some members of a brood. Consider the details of the subtle brood reduction by the Common Grackle(Howe, 1978). Female grackles that lay large clutches of five or six eggs start incubation before they complete the clutch; but they rarely manage to raise the whole brood. The older siblings are fed first, grow faster and are more likely to survive than their younger siblings. Females that attempt large clutches put extra provisions of yolk and albumen into the last, large eggs to partially compensate for their late hatching disadvantages, but these strategies do not prevent starvation of the younger members of the brood when food is scarce. Some female grackles only lay two, three or four eggs per clutch. They apportion their reproductive investment differently. Those that lay small clutches lay eggs of uniform size and provisions, hatch all the eggs at the same time by waiting until the last egg is laid to start incubating and usually raise the whole brood. Brood reduction in Red-winged Blackbirds depends on the age of the breeding female and also affects the relative number of male and female offspring that are fledged. Young females fledge more daughters than sons, whereas old females fledge more sons than daughters. Although equal numbers of sons and daughters hatch in the broods of young females, starvation is common and sons starve more often than daughters. Young females lay poorly provisioned final eggs in the clutch, which causes those nestlings to be more vulnerable to starvation. Young females also tend to lack the experience required to feed their nestlings adequately. A sex bias exists in the probability of starvation because male offspring need more food than their sisters do; they grow faster to a larger size and hence are more likely to starve. Older females, however, do not lay inferior final eggs and they supply their young with better provisions. Hence their large, fast-growing sons are less likely to starve. Ornithologists do not know why older females hatch more sons than daughters but apparently the female offspring are more likely to die as embryos as a result of unknown causes. Similar sex ratio differences are seen in humans, which give birth to 105 males for every 100 females." So, it seems that there are untold variables in every nesting situation and a monitor would have do extensive census interviews with the breeding pair to learn all these things. We'll never be able to know everything about every pair of birds we see and that is just another part of what makes this hobby so fascinating! Judy Mellin From: "Karen Louise Lippy" brdbrain"at"superpa.net To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L) Subject: multiple broods Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 09:17:25 -0500 Multiple broods in one box are not always the result of a single nesting pair. At times bluebirds which have experienced nest failure at another site will move into a well-situated nestbox shortly after fledging has occured from another pair. The only way to verify if a single pair is producing 3 and 4 broods is to have the birds banded. From: "Doug Rohde" d.rohde"at"attbi.com I wonder along with Becky, "How many nestings can a EABL pair have in one season?" The story of the EABL pair in our backyard is similar to Becky's. They raised 5 in the first nesting, 4 in the second and 5 in the third. Shortly after the third fledging mom built her fourth nest. The day after she laid her first egg, we found a sparrow egg alongside the bluebird egg. Although the bluebird egg didn't seem to be damaged, it became obvious that mom was not returning to that nest. She quickly built a nest in the other nestbox (we have two in our backyard which she normally alternates between) and laid 3 eggs in this nest. We do suspect that she was forced to "drop" one egg during the change process. She is now into the second week of incubation. Is there any reason I shouldn't expect these 3 to hatch? Is it possible that this pair will have a 5th nesting? What is the "trigger", biological and/or environmental that causes them to stop for the season? Doug Bluebirds across Texas ... one nestbox at a time ----- Original Message ----- ... From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com Doug Rhode, et al, From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com From: "d.rohde" d.rohde"at"attbi.com This morning fledglings 15, 16, & 17 "majestically soared skyward with a splash of blue" (ok maybe they didn't soar, but they did eventually make it safely to the oaks 75 yards away) completing the 4th nesting for our backyard EABL pair. So. now the question that's been on our minds since February (well, at least since last week) .... "Will they go for five nestings?" They laid their first egg way back on February 16, while the rest of the bluebirds on our trail hadn't even thought about nest building. And while many of you have struggled this year with terrible weather conditions, we've been blessed with a beautiful spring and a mild summer by Texas standards - SO FAR, but that appears to be coming to an end. We still have 12 other active nestboxes on our trail. Last year this pair started their last nest (#4) on July 17, so they have the 'summer experience'. So bluebirders place your bets. 4 or 5 ?? We'll let you know the results soon. Doug Bluebirds across Texas ... one nestbox at a time From: "Lawrence Herbert" lherbert"at"4state.com Someone asked about the number of broods per season by chickadee, titmouse and nuthatch. All of these are single brooded. There may be rare exceptions, of course. Further these species tend to keep trying if something happens to the eggs or nestlings. In some instances reported "second broods" may be late attempts at nesting successfully in the first place. Wrens tend to be double brooded. All three of our bluebirds are, of course, double and triple brooded. Good birding, Larry H. Joplin MO. From: khussie"at"localnet.com The male bluebird I saw last week on my trail(hanging around
all day) hasn't returned. Do bluebirds ever make their second
or third nest of the season in a location far from the first
one (different trail). Basically I wonder what my chances are
the rest of the year, since I haven't had bluebirds nest yet. From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber) Kieran, Bluebirds don't know one trail from another,but I'll
bet they are nesting not far away. Some could show up at any
time so keep boxes ready. Since they have been there before
they will return when a new site is needed. In the north eastern
US some Bluebirds don't start nesting until into May. Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber... From: JOHN & BARBARA SIBIO [mailto:jsibio"at"comcast.net] From: Paula [mailto:PaulaZ"at"columbus.rr.com]
My son and I checked Lois and Clark's nest yesterday evening. I am happy to report 4 feathered chicks due to fledge on the 13th or 14th. We also have a box with 3 EABL eggs. There were 5 last week. I am not sure what happened here - no evidence of climbing predator so it could be another bird or parents removing nonviable eggs? I have two nests where TRES are starting a second brood. This is unusual for me, as they usually only have one. Here is a first for me too. I have noticed the EABL seem in a big hurry this year on our street and on the trail, having second nesting in very quick succession to first. On May 29, 5 EABL fledged from a box on my trail. On June 1, I returned to the site to remove the old nest and clean the box. As I approached, both mother and father EABL were perched on each box of the paired boxes. I was worried that the babies may not have fledged yet because I have never had parents near the box after the fledging occurs. I opened the box to find the nest empty. It was also very clean. I pulled it out and shook the feather shaft dust from it, but that was the only "dirt" in it. I replaced the old nest because I took the EABL's presence as a sign to let me know that they intended to use it again. Trail check yesterday, June 9, has mom sitting on 5 new eggs so I guess they communicated their intentions fine and I understood them. Box in my backyard has 5 EABL eggs and my neighbor two doors down has 5 EABL eggs. The neighbor in between us regaled me with appreciation at the beautiful EABL she is seeing this spring. Both these boxes are on their second brood, fledging 9 new EABL so far this season. My box is now sporting a hideous homemade wren guard because my chickadee box has 6 baby HOWR in it. I have a theory and will see if it plays out. I know EABL can have a third brood, but this has never happened in any of the boxes I monitor. My theory is that I will see some third broods this summer. The birds seem in a big hurry to renest this year and I believe this may be due to the abundant food source of the Brood X cicadas. They may be spending less time feeding the newly fledged chicks because of all the food out there that is very easy to find. I know they are eating them as I have found wings in several nests. Paula Z Powell (Central) Ohio From: judymellin [mailto:judymellin"at"netzero.net] Although we are well north of you, I have noticed the same thing with renesting but can't tell if it is the same adults or an additional pair or two. There were five newly hatched bluebirds here on May 8 which was Spring Bird Count and that was very early. A couple of days before the young in that nest fledged, I found the beginnings of another nest in a different box. Three days later, the new nest had two eggs and now has four. Unfortunately, that box is now being overwhelmed with ants, something that has never happened in the 11 years I have monitored this trail. But, in the meantime, there are early bluebird nests in two other boxes and I saw a female on top of one of them. Meanwhile, a male was in the parking lot that day, almost 3/4 mile from the trail! I'm not sure if one of the new nests is a replacement for the nest infested with ants but I will be watching closely. I would never expect a third nesting here but, as you say, the birds seem to be in a BIG hurry! If the other two nests pan out, this would be a record high year for this trail of ten boxes. Tree swallows have five boxes and there are empty boxes for the wrens if they move to the boxes later in the season as they usually do. After a record wet May, we are getting some wonderful weather so who knows what the rest of the season will bring! Judy Mellin From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com]
I found the 4th nest on the third nesting cycle today. The most I ever had was 3 on the third cycle. For the last two years, my second nesting cycle had more than the first one. I wondered if the extras were from natural cavitities for the first time or if it was their first time laying. Our weather has not been extremely hot and maybe that is a factor for more on the third cycle. I am anxious to see just how many nest for the third time. I am always glad it is not many because of the terrible heat and low fledge rate and infertile eggs. Wow! It will soon be over and it seems like we just begun! Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA From: Pamela Ford [mailto:jpford"at"comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 6:43 PM Subject: Third nesting here in MD My often-observed backyard bluebird pair have begun building a nest for their third nesting this season. First brood of 4 hung around until the second brood was almost fledged and then seemed to disperse. Second brood fledged 10 days ago and are just now beginning to venture back into the yard from the woods. The male bluebird is singing his heart out for the female as she takes dried grass into the nestbox. His singing for her hasn’t dimmed through the season! The first 2 nestings were in the same box. This one is in a paired box, unused this season – guess I didn’t clean out the white-washing sufficiently in the original box J Pam in Harford County, Maryland From: Paula [mailto:PaulaZ"at"columbus.rr.com] Update on Lois and Clark for those interested. They have completed a nice Paula Z From: ke4fej1 [mailto:ke4fej1"at"email.msn.com] Hi All, Just got a report of our 4th nesting. All of the other 3 nest of this BB have been successful. ...Christy Sarasota, FL From: judymellin To: Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu I am always curious when folks post about third or fourth nestings. Are these banded birds that the observer can tell are on a third or fourth nesting or is one assuming that, based on the time of the season, that the same pair of birds is now nesting again and again? I'd be interested in knowing how people determine definitely that these are the same birds- beyond the fact that some say they "just know". Or are these birds that maybe are nesting for the first time, just later than other pairs because they could not find a cavity or possibly are younger birds that started later? Judy Mellin NE IL. From: Pamela Ford [mailto:jpford"at"comcast.net] The third nesting of my backyard bluebird pair now has 5 eggs, the first one laid 7/4/04, and the female is incubating. The first and second nestings each fledged 4 young. Last year, the backyard pair had only 2 nestings and in previous years there were 3rd nestings only about 50% of the time. At least in my backyard, the determining factor seems to be the amount of HOSP pressure. If significant HOSP problems delay the first or second nesting, there will be no third attempt. It would be interesting to see a map of the U.S. variously showing where 3rd nestings are standard, common, occasional, rare, and non-existent. Is there such a map, or related information? Pam in Harford County, Maryland From: ke4fej1 [mailto:ke4fej1"at"email.msn.com] Hi Judy and All, Well, to start with, Leah who is one of our Monitors, is on a third nesting and it is pretty obvious, at least I think, because she has had nothing but white eggs in her nest for a couple of years. So not only do they come back for the next breeding...but are coming back the next year. The other way, besides that some people really seem to at least think they know their pair or pairs ...and can tell them apart. I know they sure look at them enough! But the parents come back to nest in the right time...and in that I mean ...if they had only 3 babies they might be back in 4-7 days to start a nest. When they have had 5 babies they seem to take a full ten days to come back. This is a pattern since I see all the results of all the nests... is happening. Also the dad and babies are seen hovering around the same area. We do have some babies banded that were showing with the Mom and Dad for the second breeding. The Monitor now is trying to see again the young's bands to confirm what you are asking. We have enough empty nests so the BBs are not waiting for a box...and the boxes used one year seem to be the boxes used the next... and the laying habits are starting to look the same. I guess all we can do is to compare all that can be seen, and from all that I hear I tend to also think the birds they are seeing are the same. I am hoping to have the color bands on them next year, and of some at least to follow the families as to who is who and where they are. This is a very interesting bit of science we can observe and make opinions on. Christy Sarasota, FL Web Site: http://ke4fej1.tripod.com/ From: LauraSue14"at"aol.com [mailto:LauraSue14"at"aol.com] Hi Judy, All I can say about 2nd or 3rd nestings is that unless they are nesting in your backyard and can observe them constantly you'd be hard pressed to be able to know that unless they were banded. I only have one pair in my yard and get to know them and see them exhibit the same behavioral traits throughout the season. That is they build nests the same (collecting nesting material from the same area and the nests are gigantic in my case), start the 2nd and 3rd nests even before the the nestlings leave the previous nestbox, come when I whistle to any given part of the yard where I feed them mealworms in all different kinds of feeders, continue feeding the fledglings as they continue building a new nest, react the same when I approach their nest box to monitor, etc. I feel certain the pair this year is the same pair on their 3rd nesting. It might even be the same pair as the last 2 years as they winter over. This pair also has used 3 different nest boxes out of 9 that are available and in the same order for the past 3 seasons. Laura Marlborough, CT From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com] Judy, Good question - blues are hard to tell apart without bands! However, I think that monitors of backyard nestboxes have an easier time of differentiating the pairs at a few different nestboxes than trail monitors do on their numerous nestboxes. We see them all day long - and they learn to recognize us too. (yeah, I know that some people won't buy that, but all animals learn their sources of food) In my particular area, there are so few bluebirds that people have actually visited me to "prove" to me that I have bluejays instead of bluebirds. I don't have blues flying all over, confusing the nestbox issue. I average 3 to 4 pairs of year and since they usually are in different stages of nesting, when the babies fledge, the parents usually return to the original nestbox, because other families are in adjoin nestboxes. Occasionally, blues will nest in our tree snags - they are easy to separate from the nestbox blues, because they've not learned how to use the mealworm feeders. And they definitely fly away whenever someone approaches. The nestbox blues usually don't. Many times I have observed a bluebird that has a obvious marking (a white feather, broken toe, etc) feed their fledglings while still guarding the nestbox from HOSP & HOWR. When the female is ready for the 2nd batch, they begin nestbuilding in the original nestbox. I'm always aware that something could happen to the original pair and that another pair could take over the nestbox, but in my area, we don't have enough bluebirds for that to happen very often. I do agree that monitors always need to question if they are maintaining records for the correct pair. (and it's also possible that one of the pair could be a new mate) But to get back to the HOSP being responsible for delayed nestings. This spring, I've mentioned the pair that went through 5 different HOSP trying to take over their nestbox. They lost weeks of time, waiting for me to trap a sparrow, deciding to rebuild, and then waiting again for another trapping. Very vicious cycle. If I had not been monitoring on a daily basis, they would not have nested here. They finally fledged 6. (caught on camera) As they began the 2nd nesting, (pretty sure that it's the same pair because of the way he sits with a leg bent on our utility pole and he comes to my whistle for mealworms), the sparrow fledglings from a neighbor's wire chicken coop decided to roost on the nestbox. Another slow-down. So, if we have an early fall, this particular pair may not even have time to teach the fledglings how to hunt before migration begins. Some people might say that if this pair could not handle HOSP, they don't deserve to reproduce. However, I'd hate to see that happen to a pair that fledged 6 healthy bluebirds. Dottie Roseboom Peoria IL (central - zone 5) From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] I have a pair of Bluebirds that nested the third cycle in my yard this year. I can see these birds from every window in my house. I witnessed the female start her second nest in the backyard nestbox three days before the 4 fledglings left the first one. (on the east side of my yard) They left right before a huge storm and only one survived. I saw the male feeding it right in my front yard. Then, my husband and I both saw the fledgling and the male helping to feed the second brood. Before the second brood fledged (5 of them), the female started another nest (third one) in the nestbox on the east side of the house where she had the first one two days before that second brood fledged. She now has 2 babies out of four eggs on the third cycle. The 6 fledglings and the papa completely dominate my yard. I really got a kick out of seeing 3 of the fledglings just flog a Cardinal good and make him leave where they were feeding. I have no doubt this pair has raised three broods. I do have 7 nests occupied for the third time this year with nestlings in them hatching as I type and seeing this pair right before my eyes, I believe the others are most likely third nesters too. I do observe their behavior closely, and it's like I know them and they know me. I've got Bluebirds everywhere!!!! Bluebird Heaven!!!! :<)) Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Dottie Roseboom writes: "I do agree that monitors always need to question if they are maintaining records for the correct pair. (and it's also possible that one of the pair could be a new mate)" There's no way to know for sure about this unless you band and check it or watch it closely in a backyard situation. In the majority of the situations, this will not occur we can only speculate. In 2000 when I entered my data on the Transcontinental Bluebird Trail, we required to keep more in-depth information. We recorded what went on at each nestbox and were not asked if it was the same pair or whatever. I am sure that is the way monitors record their information now because in most cases we don't know for sure if there is a different mate, etc. On the video by Don and Lillian Stokes, they state that third nestings occur especially in the south so they must have some research to back them up to make that statement. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA From: judymellin Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 10:23 AM Subject: Re: third nestings Nice to know that some folks are trying to look at this scientifically. I have had young hatch in the first week in May and others throughout the summer into the middle of August so, chronologically, these are probably "third nestings" because they are one after another but I would not presume to have any way to be sure they are the same pair. I appreciate that there are physical differences in some birds that may lead those with backyard boxes to assume they are seeing the same birds nest after nest and season after season but it is nice to hear most folks realizing that the only way to be sure is to observe banded birds. I have a pair on my trail this year that comes to forage from a honey locust tree in the parking lot. What I'm trying to figure out is why they would fly a 3/4 mile route each way when there is plenty of foraging territory right at the boxes! I have never seen this happen in the years I have monitored this trail so I can "assume" this pair has not nested on my site before but who knows? Judy Mellin, NE IL. From: Evelyn Cooper I am happy for you! I have 28 eggs in nestboxes that have their third nesting cycle. This is the most ever on a third attempt. The temps have been extra cool and I think (no scientific proof) maybe that has something to do with it. Usually, the hot weather has put a damper on us all. Shane, I was wondering if your pair and the fledglings come back to the yard? Mine do and they are here all day long in it. I count them and feel sure I am right in assuming they are from both broods here in the yard. They hang out on top of the nestboxes in the yard and feed all day in the yard. What a sight!!! These fledgling show the same aggressive traits their parents have. A Cardinal flew down where three juveniles were feeding in my driveway two days ago (not at a feeder) and they flogged it but good. Their parents ran a Mocker off and successfully nested in the backyard. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA From: ke4fej1 [mailto:ke4fej1"at"email.msn.com] From: judymellin [mailto:judymellin"at"netzero.net] OK, now I'm really confused! Are folks counting nests that never had eggs as a "nesting attempt" to determine how many there have been? I would think that one would count fledged young from each attempt as the criterion. I had a nest hatch May 8, then another nest begun before that clutch fledged. The "second" nest, however, was abandoned due to ants after four eggs were laid. There are now two nests with three young each that hatched about ten days and about three days ago. So, while there have been nests with eggs one right after the other in May, June and July, I would count only two because the eggs were never hatched in the "second" one. Is this what others are doing or are you counting any "nest" as another attempt? Judy Mellin NE IL. -----Original Message----- From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 10:26 PM To: BKeane64"at"aol.com; marco50"at"bellsouth.net; Bluebird-L"at"cornell.edu Subject: RE: Third Nestings Looks like on this e-mail it is clear you did have three nests. One was pulled out, but it was a full nest. From what you have written here, your birds have made three attempts. I record everything that goes on in the nestboxes, but count only the full nesting cycles as successful. If there were eggs laid but abandoned, I record that. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net] ... Only with banding and then retrapping the adult birds can you determine for sure that a single pair or female actually laid four clutches of eggs and then successfully raised at LEAST one young to fledge from each nesting attempt to make this a true fourth nesting. Harry Krueger in north east Texas was the first bander to prove AND report in journals that Eastern Bluebirds DO nest four times a year. Out of 60 + banded pairs of bluebirds one year he had 21% of them successfully do this. Some of them it took five clutches of eggs to fledge four broods. ... From: Burnham, Barbara [mailto:Barbara.Burnham"at"zzz.zzz] Judy, These observations are based on one backyard nestbox, daily monitoring and journaling: The same pair of bluebirds fledged 3 broods successfully each of 3 continuous years. I knew these birds by their behavior, as the male continuously "entertained himself" fighting with his "competition" in our windows. By offering a few mealworms once or twice a day (and suet mixes in winter) I was able to observe this pair almost daily, as well as their young. They would visit the feeder even if I was sitting 2 feet away. They each entered the feeder always at the same portal (there are 6 portals). She always entered first. At the nestbox, she would often hang halfway out of the entrance hole to check every noise, and observe every activity, but she would not leave the nestbox until monitoring time; then she would calmly perch very nearby and watch me. Neither of these birds ever dive-bombed when I monitored the nestbox--not once. They stayed resident all winter. I believe we lost the male in early March, either to a predator, or to competition from another pair. At first, I thought the female had stayed and chose a new mate; there were lots of bluebird males chasing one another around for about 2 weeks. But most likely she was driven off by the new pair. This female's behavior is quite different. The male shows no interest in windows. Neither bird will stay nearby when I fill the feeder, nor will they visit the feeder until everyone is out of sight. He almost always enters the feeder first. She often begs and he feeds her (which the other pair did once that I observed). Both are very timid of people. At the slightest disturbance, she leaves the nestbox and flies a good distance away. Both bluebirds dive-bomb very aggressively when I even get near the nestbox. This pair has fledged 5 young in each of their first and second brood, and began the third brood of this season yesterday with the first egg. Barbara Burnham Ellicott City, Maryland From: judymellin [mailto:judymellin"at"netzero.net] This seems to make a great deal of sense: attempts would indicate one or more eggs in a nest where young did not fledge while nestings would be those nests from which at least one fledged. Do you also consider the chronological factor, such as a new nest begun while other nests are still in early stages of activity indicating a different pair or are you counting nests per box? And are you attempting to determine if it is the same pair (which I think we've agreed that can only be definitely determined by banding) or are you counting attempts per trail? On my trail this year, I consider that I have had three successful nestings: a nest of five fledged in May and two more nests of three have hatched this month. And I would count one attempt for an abandoned nest with four eggs. Maybe total successful fledglings divided by the number of nestboxes would be a better "measure" of productivity than trying to determine first, third or fifth? From all the e-mails, it seems that folks are counting differently and, if we hope to be able to state anything in a quantitative manner, we should try to reach agreement on the ground rules. Judy Mellin NE IL. From: Kerry Sweet [mailto:ksweet3450"at"yahoo.com] Ok I agree that you can only determine if its the same bird if it is banded however I did have white eggs in the same box 3 years in a row ... I don't think that was coincidental ... I think it was the same female. :) The box in my yard has had 2 successful nestings: a nest of 5 fledged in May, 4 fledged in June and there is a third nest of 4 eggs ... I ASSUMED it was the same pair for each nest ... therefore making me wish for that 4th nesting. Even so ... I have never had 4 successful nestings in the same box in one season. Kerry in NE okla. From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com]
Kerry, if they came and banded my pair in the yard, I wouldn't be more certain than I am now of how many cycles they are on. I feel sure many bluebird landlords feel that way about the pairs they see every single day, many times during the day. I think three cycles is all I can hope for, but we do have people in the southern part of the state that have four. One LBBS member, John Graham, Greenwell Springs told me a story three years ago. He had been having three nesting cycles. He took his nestbox down for repairs at the end of that third cycle and low and behold, he saw the pair checking out his neighbor's old run down nestbox that HOSP had nested in. He hurried and put the nestbox back up and they came and made a fourth nesting. He has since had fourth nesting cycles. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA From: Lawrence Herbert [mailto:lherbert"at"4state.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 5:57 PM Subject: third nestings After a two month hiatus it is so good to be back to Bluebird-L. We lost our computer in mid May to lightening and just got back. It took so long because I know even less about computers than I do birds! Here in Kansas and Missouri EABL are having a good year. I have several boxes, out of 65, that are on their THIRD NESTS. However. as has been pointed out, there is no reliable way at this point to know for sure if it is the same pair that are nesting other than banding or marking. Note that in my 34 years of experience successful nests often have repeats whereas unsuccessful nests usually have a "vacant house" time frame. There is an implication that the parents come back to nest again in a successful site. No proof whatsoever though without marking the parents. One time in north central Missouri (reported previously) I had a nest box that fledged three nests of five white eggs. I always assumed that, in this case, it was the same female. Not sure, of course. Good birding, Larry H. Joplin MO. From: lviolett [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net] Interesting that almost everyone seems to agree that the further south you are located, the more likely you are to have three, four or even five successful broods from a bluebird pair (or box). Here in So. California, after two successful Western Bluebird broods fledge from a nestbox, I can scratch that box off my "active" list for the rest of the season. Only periodic checks are made to make sure something else (HOSP/RATS/BEES) isn't using the box. Therefore, a southern location might impact the number of broods with Eastern Bluebirds, but it doesn't trigger more than two fledges of Western Bluebirds per box/pair on my trail in So. Calif. From: JOHN & BARBARA SIBIO [mailto:jsibio"at"comcast.net] Hi Linda, and All, Here in Cloverdale, advertised as "Where the Vineyards meet the Redwoods, three nestings is routine! There are exceptions, of course, but more often than not we have three nests. I've never had four in my garden, The size of the clutch does get smaller by the third nest. Maybe it's the heat here -- it's not uncommon for the temperatures to rise about 110 even during the second nest. ... Barbara in Cloverdale From: harkleen"at"sentex.net [mailto:harkleen"at"sentex.net] I have had two nestings before but never three.This year the same pair have four eggs in their third nesting. The first two were five eggs each, all fledged . I live about 44 miles north/west of Toronto,Ontario I feed mealworms. To the Ontario bluebirders on this list,I am just wondering if these stats are usual . Regards, Bill Harrison From: Lynn Ward [mailto:lWard"at"pmai.org] Hi Bill, I'm not in Ontario but not far (Michigan). This is the second year for a third nesting for me. I have no idea if it's the same pair, but the female this year laid her first egg on July 31st - this is even later than the first egg on the third nesting last year which was July 29th. The female this year has laid four eggs in the first and second nestings - so we'll see how many she lays this time. It's kind of nice to have one last (and only) nesting so late in the season. Lynn Ward South Central Michigan From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"tds.net] Lynn, et al, I would be interested in knowing whether clutches laid this late in the season will have enough good weather left in the summer to permit a successful outcome. In some warmer parts of the country The weather would not be a factor, but I wonder about Michigan or Ontario. Here in NH, I have never seen a third nesting succeed. Perhaps the proximity of those large lakes (Mich & Ont.)mitigate the local temperatures sufficiently Meanwhile, I wish you, - and them, - luck, of course. These birds always seem to be trying to push their ranges farther and farther north. (I realize that my use of the verb "trying" verges pretty close to the dreaded large word "a---------------,") which I hesitate to spell out in this august forum.) Bruce Burdett, SW NH From: Haleya Priest [mailto:mablue"at"gis.net] The question for me is always whether they are mealworm fed or not. Usually they'll only do a 3rd nesting up north if they are given a good steady diet of mealies. However, Lynn you may be that exception. Seems I recall someone had 3rd nesters without feeding. :-) H From: Lynn Ward [mailto:lWard"at"pmai.org] That's what I wondered last year. If I remember correctly, the young fledged around September 6th. Michigan (at least my area) has good weather usually through at least the middle or sometimes the end of October. I would guess the amount of time was adequate last year. I know the weather was good until the young were completely on their own. The question is, how much time after that do they need good weather? Maybe the "flocking-up" of the EABL families in the fall helps these young birds to survive? Lynn Ward South Central Michigan From: judymellin [mailto:judymellin"at"netzero.net] I had three chronological nestings this season: a clutch hatched in very early May, a new nest was started before that nest fledged but was abandoned due to an infestation of ants (first time this has ever happened since I began monitoring this trail in 1993) and two nests hatched and fledged in July. Although I have no way of knowing, I would assume that one of the July hatches was from the birds that abandoned the antsy nest that would have hatched in June. So, with no supplemental feeding and from quite a northern location, there could have been three sets of feldglings. We had an extremely wet May but the rest of the summer has been dry with below-normal temps. The trail sits on a 125 acre grassland surrounded by woodlots so there is plenty of "natural eatin' " for the birds. Judy Mellin NE IL. From: judymellin [mailto:judymellin"at"netzero.net]
I took a quick look through my records in NE IL. and, in 1996, there were three clutches that hatched and fledged in mid-to late August. One fledged after Aug 26. I did not take the time to figure out what nesting cycle that was from but the young apparently suffered no ill effects from their end-of-summer fledge. Judy Mellin NE IL. From: Paula [mailto:PaulaZ"at"columbus.rr.com]
My backyard bluebirds just had their last clutch of 4 eggs hatch on 8-4. This is a treat for me - the only true third nesting I have ever had and a late one I think. All the bluebirds on my trail are done. I do still have a nest of 4 TRES on the trail though. This was also a true second nesting where the first brood fledged and then parents rebuilt and had second nest. I am not sure it was same pair, but think so as they used the same box. My husband said he heard on weather channel that this is the coolest summer here in 100 years. Birds seem to be taking advantage of it. Paula Z Powell (Central) Ohio From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com]
Oh, Paula, I'm so jealous! Yes, our cool weather here has been setting records. So I thought my blues would get 3 nestings in - but alas, sparrows scared off 1 set, and a house wren sneaked into another pair's favorite nestbox, and I haven't seen the other ones. At least, I'm enjoying the cool weather. Hopefully, this has been a good year for bluebirds across the Midwest. Dottie Roseboom Peoria IL (central - zone 5) From: eindians [mailto:eindians"at"zoominternet.net] a freind of mine has been monitoring EABL boxes for 30 yrs and has never had a true 3rd nesting. he lives 20 miles south of me. he has had a third nest built but never a successful hatching. i live in northeast ohio,15 miles south of youngstown. i have read about other third nestings this year[as far north as toronto canada]is this an unusual year? EVAN SCHWARTZ 15 MILES SOUTH OF YOUNGSTOWN OH From: Autumn L. Kruer [mailto:autumnk"at"iglou.com] Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 10:11 PM Subject: RE: third nesting I had a third nesting this year, too. Fledged yesterday. First time I've had babes in the box this late. Created a whole new problem with predators, though. Usually, my birds start in late March or early April, fledge by second week of May and then sometimes a second nesting afterwards. I seldom see them after late June to mid July. When we cleaned out this last nest, I noted something new – tons of seeds in it. Walking around the woods yesterday, I realize that the dogwoods are fat with berries. I think that is what the seeds in the nest were. Never had a nestful of seeds before. I'm wondering if the plentiful bounty in the woods has something to do with it. Our land was full of blackberries this year and I noticed yesterday that the persimmons are so full this year that the branches are drooping. Autumn in Kentucky From: Elizabeth Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net] Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 8:28 AM Subject: RE: third nesting I never had a third nesting until this year, but I've only had boxes up for 4 years. I'm thinking it's a combination of factors: mild weather, possibly bluebirds that overwintered here in NE CT and got a head start (nesting started earlier this year), feeding mealworms (enabling healthy parents and offspring, possibly earlier fledging), more pairs (possibly more experienced bluebirds), more boxes (with empties available that they could switch to - they seemed to move to another box for the subsequent nestings), and fewer house sparrows interrupting nesting attempts which lengthens the amount of time it takes for a pair to complete a successful nesting. (Since I have aggressively used both active and passive control methods, they have made them almost uncommon in my area.) Two of us in NE CT also may have had second broods of tree swallows this year, which is supposed to be extremely rare. Bet from CT From: Paula [mailto:PaulaZ"at"columbus.rr.com] Evan, I live in central Ohio so not too far from you. I have only been seriously monitoring bluebirds for three years now. I have had my first true third nesting this year also. My backyard bluebirds had their third brood with 4 babies hatch on August 5. My husband heard on The Weather Channel that this is the coolest summer in 100 years. It does seem a rather good year. I have not tabulated all my statistics yet to compare with past couple of years, but will do that soon. I also had a true second nesting with one pair of TRES this year which is strange too. They fledged a second brood of 4 last week - very late for TRES. Paula Z Powell (Central) Ohio [Note from webmaster: See continuation of thread under Tree Swallow Part 6] From: Lawrence Herbert [mailto:lherbert "at"4state.com] In September, we were all discussing triple broods in the EABL this season. Phil asked me how many I had. And then he and Florida were rudely interrupted. I had one box in se Kansas that fledged three nests. This site had a fourth nest with four eggs but was abandoned. So, three and a half nests there! There were several other triple broods but I have misplaced my manila folders temporarily, so, Phil, I can't say how many. Seems like it was six or seven out of the 45 boxes monitored. Course, not sure if the parents were all the same. Good birding, Larry H. Joplin MO. From: KCBSP"at"aol.com [mailto:KCBSP"at"aol.com] In a Message dated 12/22/2004 8:22:23 AM Central Standard
Time, bwhittaker"at"natureskeepers.com writes: I never heard of five clutches in a season? If you are sure I think you should consider banding them. That's something. if it is so. Please find a bander on their return.after the second clutch and watch and see. Let us know. Thanks. Kathy Clark, New Cumberland, PA From: Bill Whittaker [mailto:bwhittaker"at"natureskeepers.com] From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 6:48 PM Subject: Bluebird Surprise One of LBBS board members, Don Studer, West Monroe, wrote me last night that he had cleaned out his nestboxes in August after the last cycle. He said that after Christmas when his grandkids were visiting, he took them out to the nestboxes to show them how to monitor them. He said when he opened one, it had a nest and 5 eggs apparently abandoned. Now, is that not a big surprise? And to think, he even had the nest and eggs to show the kids and didn't know it was there!!!! This female apparently built again and laid the eggs and abandoned them. Evelyn Cooper Subject: 1st cycle EABL nesting or 2nd cycle? Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:34:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Horace Sher <hjsher1"at"yahoo.com> Hello....A few boxes of mine have the 1st cycle EABL nesting well under way..1 box has nestlings that are about 12-13 days old. Another box has eggs beginning to hatch. But another box has a nest almost complete, but no eggs yet.. I believe the EABL started this next about a week ago, and I'm wondering whether this nest should be considered 1st cycle or 2nd cycle nesting? All these boxes I'm sure have 3 different EABL. Question to anyone mainly in N. C. or any other state....how late of a 1st cycle nesting have you had & when did most of your 2nd cycle EABL nestings start. Since I've been doing Bluebirds, almost all of my 1st cycle nestings began (start building the nest) anywhere from last week in March to around April 7 or so & my 2nd cycle nestings have begun well into May. Today is April 21...so I'm very curious about this particular nesting (that doesn't have any eggs yet)... is it a late 1st cycle or the beginning of a 2nd cycle? Subject: Re: 1st cycle EABL nesting or 2nd cycle? Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:20:05 -0500 From: Dottie, Hickory Hollow, Brown County, Indiana <yumyumkatts"at"voyager.net> I would count it as the first cycle. Dottie, Hickory Hollow From: RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com [mailto:RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com] Hi , A friend told me he recalls 3rd broods when he was a kid. He has a pair now that could be into their 3rd. Books say its possible. How often does this joyous event occur? Can it be that a pair gets exhausted after two and another fills in the territory? Ron From: Okatsam"at"aol.com [mailto:Okatsam"at"aol.com] Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 2:49 PM Subject: Re: 3rd broods Malinda Mastako From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 6:30 PM Subject: RE: 3rd broods Ron, every year, I have a third cycle. Last year, three nested for a third cycle. My birds are not banded to know for sure, but when you are on the trail as much as I am, you get to know their behavior. I am convinced that my backyard pair is the same ones. The ones that nest on the trail, I can tell if their behavior is same as usual. For example, the pair at #16 dive bomb me every time. They even dive bomb me over the empty nestbox after the babies fledged. So, I feel pretty confident that I have third cycle nesters in my backyard and on the trail. Evelyn Cooper From: Autumn L. Kruer [mailto:autumnk"at"iglou.com] I had 3 broods last year and recall others here did, too. The third was not so joyous, as the predators had finished breeding and their juveniles were rampant (I lost several to what I assume was a juvenile kestrel in the third brood last year). On my second right now. I have no idea if it was the same pair of bluebirds from brood #1 to brood #2, but I am almost certain brood #2 and brood #3 were from the same pair because after papa bluebird got picked off by the kestrel, the juveniles came back to help mama bluebird feed the nestlings – to the demise of one of them by the kestrel. Autumn in Kentucky From: David Middleton Edelen II [mailto:k98"at"bellsouth.net] Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 8:59 AM Subject: Question about my BBs and # of broods? Hey Evelyn, From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 10:04 AM Subject: RE: Question about my BBs and # of broods? If yours are incubating now, they would come off around July 17th. The female would have to get busy building right back for there to be a third cycle. Since nesting here where I am was a month late, I've been wondering that too. I have some in my backyard that will fledge in another week, and she could have time to start a third cycle. However, not all of them nest a third cycle. Last year, I had 15 active bluebird nestboxes. Only three pair nested a third cycle. I feel confident it was the same pairs, as I have stated previously that I know them very well. So, you will just have to wait and see if yours has time and decides to nest a third cycle. In the southern part of Louisiana, we have some that have four nesting cycles. Evelyn Cooper From: JOHN & BARBARA SIBIO [mailto:jsibio"at"comcast.net] Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 10:10 AM Subject: Re: 3rd broods We have always had three broods here. The first one is at risk because of cold, wet, weather, and the next too are usually subject to extreme heat, but the pattern has always been three nestings. The second clutch hatched a couple days ago, but I haven't been able to check on them because it is so cold and wet. It hasn't risen above 60 degrees and it has been raining. I think I'll look today, though, to make a beak count at least. The adults have been busy feeding since Wednesday evening, so the chicks should be a little stronger by now. Perhaps the weather will improve by afternoon, which is when I do my inspections. We're supposed to have "normal" weather back by tomorrow, but I don't know if I can wait; I'm so anxious to see them! The fledglings from the first nesting are still in the yard, and they are quite interested in the nestbox now. They still manage to beg a feeding from Mom now and then, too. Barbara in Cloverdale, CA From: Lawrence Herbert [mailto:lherbert"at"4state.com] Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 10:30 PM Subject: 3 broods Here in Missouri and Kansas we have three broods about 20 to 25% of the time. That's rough, without looking up results. One interesting point I wish to make: I don't believe I've ever had a 4th brood successful. To my knowledge the few that I have had Good birding, Larry H. Joplin MO. From: bookfanaticef-bluebird"at"yahoo.com [mailto:bookfanaticef-bluebird"at"yahoo.com] Ron, From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 10:29 AM Subject: Backyard Pair Five babies fle |