Problems with house sparrows on the bluebird trail (Part 9)

Active Control (Traps, Guns, Hooks, Oil, Pricking, Egg Removal, etc.)

Also see other HOSP information under Passive Control, Philosophy, Lime, General, Disposal, etc. In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website: 

From: JoleenDavis [mailto:ds"at"comteck.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 2:18 PM
To: bluebird-l"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Need some help please Hello to all fellow Bluebirders....   As some of you know I wrote in on May 7th stating that a HOSP killed the baby Bluebirds that morning. I have since then put in a Joe Huber Sparrow trap in that Bluebird box & have caught HOSP May 7th, 8th & the 11th. The only days I have not are May 9th, 10th, 12th & the 13th now.   On May 12th I trapped either two seperate male Bluebirds or the same one twice (Just knowing what happened this morning (May 13th) I am thinking it is the same one. Because this morning of May 13th I trapped a female Bluebird as I was trying to release her her mate came flying overhead my thinking is could it be the original pair that lost their babies?   I did put up another Bluebird nest box up in another location, but only about 30 to 40 feet apart from each other (I am just guessing) and have seen a male checking it quite a bit & have seen a pair checking it out as well. But one thing I want to say is yesterday (May 12th) before knowing I had a trapped a male Bluebird in the box with the Huber Trap I seen another male on top of the new Bluebird box, so I know I have 2 males in the yard. There is one male looking for a mate then there is the pair of Bluebirds.   Should I take the trap out of the Bluebird box? Since this pair seem really interested in this paticular box. I do belive they were checking out the new box yesterday (May 12th), but just seem more interested in the old one. And put a box with the Joe Huber Sparrow Trap in another box on the pitchfork so I can move it around the yard. As well put a better Sparrow Spooker on the Bluebird box that would be without the Huber trap. And maybe put up another Bluebird box just to see if the one male would consider staying in the yard.   Or could I just go with one Bluebird box (with deterrents on it…I was thinking of using the spooker along with the monofilament) & HOSP nest box trap(s). Or would it be better to have 2 Bluebird boxes including the the original box (all with deterrents) & the HOSP nest box trap(s)? \   Some other thoughts/questions I had are:   1) Leave things the way they are keeping the Joe Huber Sparrow Trap in the original Bluebird nest box & having the new Bluebird nest box with a different Sparrow Spooker on it as well as Mono just to be safe.   2) Another thought is to leave things the way they are as stated above & add another nest box with a Joe Huber Sparrow Trap in it in another location.   3) Or my other thinking putting a Joe Huber Sparrow Trap inside the new Bluebird box as I seen a HOSP near it & get him As Soon As I Can! As I can see that the Sparrow Trap doesn't seem to phase the Bluebirds too much. And taking the Joe Huber Sparrow Trap out of the original Bluebird nest box as Bluebird(s) are interested in it as well.   4) Or adding on to above statement & add another nest box with a Joe Huber Sparrow Trap in it in another location.   5) As a last resort pair a Bluebird nest box that has a Joe Huber Sparrow Trap inside with a trap free Bluebird nest box. As I really don't want to take the chance like you said there is a risk to the neighboring blues.   If I for some reason talked in circles I am sorry I tend to do that sometimes. I am just trying to help out the Blues in my yard. That is all I would like to know for now anyway.....unless something else happens to make me have more questions.   Joleen in Indiana

From: Paula Z
Date: May 13, 2004
RE: Need some help please

Joleen,   This bluebirding stuff can sure get confusing, can't it? Here is my advice (for what it is worth). I would most certainly remove the trap from the box that you are catching the EABLs in. They are obviously interested in this particular box. You stated you have put another box about 30 or 40 feet away. Great. Now you have two boxes - one for your EABL and one to intercept any HOSP that "think" they want a nestbox.   Also, with boxes this close, even though you may have seen another male EABL, the original pair will not let him nest within about 100 yards of them. There are exceptions to this if trees or homes block their view, but it is a pretty good rule of thumb - they have a territory of about 100 yards that they defend from other EABL.   I do not use inbox traps unless I have seen a HOSP on or in a particular box, and prefer to see a little nesting material in there as well before I set the trap in the box. I know many people set aside a "trap" box where they set the trap often to catch HOSP's. I do not do this. I believe that with any box, I am almost as likely to get a native cavity nester as a HOSP so I always wait until the HOSP is committed before I set a trap. I have never captured an EABL doing this. I did once capture a HOWR who was checking out the HOSP's box. He was released unharmed.   Remember that if you catch a male HOSP (and I am assuming that once you capture him, you are eliminating him), the box is now completely open for another bird to nest in. If it is another HOSP, then reset the trap. Hopefully, it will be a native bird, and if it is, you may need to put up a third box. I really like to have at least one empty box available to intercept HOSP. It just keeps the native birds so much safer. I hope this simplifies things a little.   I have personally not tried monofilament or sparrow spookers so cannot comment on them with authority.   Paula Z Powell (Central) Ohio

From: Kate Arnold [mailto:bbnestbox"at"1starnet.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 11:39 PM
Re: Need some help please

I would take the trap out of the nestbox. You have trapped several sparrows already, and may not get any more in that box for awhile. You don't want to keep trapping the bluebirds because they may give up on your nestbox. I would wait to set more sparrow traps until a sparrow actually claims another nestbox.

From: JoleenDavis [mailto:ds"at"comteck.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 6:24 PM
Subject: Update on my HOSP problems

Hello all fellow Bluebirders, I went ahead & took the advice that was given me by all of you & took the trap out. The next day I had a claim straw in the new Bluebird box & nothing in the old one all before going to lunch. When I got back I checked again & had a few strands of grass. At this point I did not know what I got. I know I have still seen the lonely male Bluebird, but have not seen the pair of Blues yet...probably scared them off too much to stay. This all took place on the 15th. Well, when I checked today the only thing that changed was there was something building a nest in the new Bluebird box. I checked then came back into the house to get ready to leave for lunch. When I got in the car & started to leave I could see something clinging at the entrance hole of the new box, but couldn't tell if it was HOSP or Blue. Finally, it flew to the roof & all I seen was brown feathers, so it was a HOSP. I can tell he is committed to the box now, but my question is when to put in the trap...while it is still late afternoon & before evening & try and get him now or a little later in the evening and have it ready for him in the morning. Will he still go in even if he only has a partial nest & no mate yet? I also know there is another HOSP near cuz this box committed HOSP chased that one away. The lonely male Bluebird stays with the old Bluebird box now he was sticking with the new one which the HOSP has now. I need to get this HOSP now. I have a feeling he is a difficult one to get. I also caught another HOSP in the Bluebird nest box on the morning of the 15th the same day I took the trap out of it. Also just to let you all know I put up a Bluebird box rigged with the Joe Huber trap in place of the Starling nest box trap. Something did trip the Huber trap, but nothing & have had not takers since then. Joleen in Indiana

From: Debi Money [mailto:dmoney"at"getatlas.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 12:14 PM
Subject: Alert HOSP!!

Earier I posted a Message about my extra BB house in my back yard. I just witnessed the BB's that are currantly nesting in my front yard in the Gilbertson running off a HOSP from the house in my backyard! Now I am sure I should take it down. Thing is I am afraid if I don't the BB's will continue to fight them and possibly get hurt? or I won't be able to catch the HOSP because the BB's won't let him nest, and this causes the BB" alot of aggravation. Now the $64,000 question, Will the stupid HOSP bother the BB's in the Gilbertson if I take down the BB house in the back? Those Stinking HOSPs. UCK! :-( Joy in Birding debi money Spfld. MO

From: Cher [mailto:bluebirdnut"at"a-znet.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: Alert HOSP!!

Debi, I recently saw an account of a Bluebird actually driving a HOSP INTO a nestbox that contained a trap! The Blues can't spend all their time keeping the HOSP out of the nestbox. IMHO, you've got the perfect setup for catching and eliminating the HOSP, who will almost certainly continue to harass the Blues even if the other box is taken down. The Blues don't prefer to nest in Gilbertson's boxes -- doesn't mean they won't enter them to make a kill. ...[subsequent post] ... What about putting a hole reducer on the trapping box? -- the blues won't be able to enter, but the HOSP will ... might be worth a try ... the blues might even lose interest if they find they can't fit through the entrance hole. Cher

From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler"
Subject: now is the time to trap young House Sparrows
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:44:40

For those areas with large House Sparrow populations the best time to reduce next years crop of House Sparrows is when the young have just left the nest. According to one of the USDA brochures, House Sparrows feed their young a high percentage of insects for only about 4 days. Then the last 9 days in the nest they are fed a very large percentage of seeds. Upon fledging, the young House Sparrows are taken to a feeding area like a livestock feed operation or restaurant or back yard bird feeding area. In just a couple of days the male & female House Sparrow will show their young how to eat grain and then the adult birds will begin breeding for the next brood. Historically House Sparrows have been known to fledge young in any month of the year at any latitude where they normally nest. These young sparrows are naive about bait traps and it is very easy to catch the entire brood within hours because the young want to stay together. Very often you can catch the adult sparrows trying to feed their young. Just like with installing different styles of nestboxes very often a couple different bait traps will work better than just one trap. The ST-1 or Trio trap is a good trap to use stuffed with feathers to attract a male House Sparrow that is actively nest building. Very often the ST-1 baited with only feathers, placed near a nestbox where only the male House Sparrow sings to try to attract a mate will catch this wary bird. Funnel traps work well at catching and holding young sparrows but often the smarter adults learn how to enter and then exit a single funnel. I have a USDA brochure that shows a homemade funnel trap that is about 18"x18" x36" long and it has an entrance funnel on the ground which the birds enter and then a second funnel leading to the large holding cage in the back of the trap very similar to a normal "fish" trap. Thus making it difficult for the birds to find two different exits to escape. Then there are the larger traps that really work well at catching and holding a group of sparrows for weeks on end. The longer you have live captive House Sparrows the better your trapping operation works. The more birds you attract to your feeding station the easier it is to reduce next years breeding population. Trapped House Sparrows call out and bring into your yard other House Sparrows that are flying by within hearing. Thus you might be reducing two or more House Sparrow colonies in the area. I had a school friend in the 1970's who thinned out the House sparrows raiding their chicken feed by simply covering the hen house with small wire and then when the flock entered the house he pulled the door shut trapping 128 sparrows at one time. Trapping 30 or 40 at a time once or twice a year kept his flock under control. Back yard traps can be made out of the cheap poly vinyl garden netting with the small mesh and build the old fashioned "wire box" where you use about a 48" x48" x 12" high box propped up on a stick to allow the birds to enter under the edge to eat and then pull the stick out that props up the trap box. Something like this can be left up at all times to allow your normal birds to feed and be safe from raiding hawks. Something like this needs to be tripped when a large group of House Sparrows is using it. You can cover an existing backyard greenhouse for the summer with this cheap vinyl mesh and plant morning glories on it or climbing beans and also use it for a large live trap or holding cage for one season. Anyway I will have a small number of copies of the antique USDA brochures at the NABS meeting this summer that has four or five simple plans for live traps and also a couple of good recipes for cooking and eating your House Sparrows. House Sparrow breasts baked in butter and served on toast would be better than sautéed Cicada in my opinion.....I can ship this brochure to the USA for cost of printing and shipping for about $3 if you want this before coming to the NABS meeting. Canada is about $5 just for postage. For more information on trapping check out that section in The Bluebird Monitor's Guide. Bring your copies of the book and I will sign them between meetings. It is kind of fun to get the other people mentioned in this book to sign their pages too. KK

From: Carol Berrett
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 4:28 PM
Subject: stubborn house sparrow

A few evenings ago, I checked my bluebird house and was delighted to see five beautiful little hatchlings, still hairless. The next morning when I went to look, there were five dead hatchings on the ground surrounding the house. The nest was empty, but smooth and undisturbed, and a male house sparrow was sitting on top of the house. Well, since then, I have been researching the house sparrow menace for bluebirds. I found the monofilament (fishing line) technique and applied it to that bluebird house and another (still empty) bluebird house I have and I cleaned out and threw away whatever was in the house box that the house sparrow had been using (at least one HOSP hatchling destroyed). But, although I carefully followed directions (of "Larry") to apply the monofilament, the male house sparrow ignored it completely and entered the entrance hole on the house I had emptied of house sparrows. ARe there some HOSP for which the monofilament line just doesn't work, and if so, what do you do then? Any suggestions on how to prevent another mass murder of my bluebirds will be greatly appreciated.

From: "Cher"
Subject: Re: stubborn house sparrow
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 18:01:55 -0400

Carol, My suggestion would be to get another nestbox for the Bluebirds, and use the box that the HOSP is so obviously attached to as a "dummy" box, fitted with an in-box trap. You can find some information on trapping HOSPs here: http://p202.ezboard.com/fbluebirdnutcafefrm14.showMessage?topicID=3D13.to= pic#trap

From: Dottie Roseboom
Subject: Re: stubborn house sparrow
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 20:25:15 -0500

Hi Carol, So glad to meet you - too bad that it's over a bluebird tragedy. I'll say right up front that this list is a great place to learn - and we also have many differing viewpoints on sparrows. After years of seeing the damage that HOSP do, I now believe that the only good HOSP is either dead or in England. In my experience, passive solutions (monofilament, wing clipping, etc) are very short-termed, and make for a "smarter" sparrow. Therefore, I use in-house traps, ground traps, and pellet guns to help give the other cavity nesters some peace from the menancing sparrow. Such aggressive action is not for everyone, but for every sparrow that I dispatch, another nestling can rest a bit easier. Have you read the following websites?

www.sialis.org/hosp.htm

www.sialis.org/hospdispatch.htm

www.sialis.org/neglect.htm

www.sialis.org/hospattacks.htm

www.sialis.org/neglect.htm

Fawzi also has some data for passive sparrow control that you might want to look at. I don't have the URL with me, but I'm sure that someone else will supply it. Since, you'll probably receive lots of input on sparrow control, I'll quit talking, at least for now - LOL. Good luck with your decision and your bluebirds. Dottie Roseboom Peoria IL (central - zone 5)

From: "Fawzi P. Emad"
Subject: Re: stubborn house sparrow
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 21:51:39 -0400

My website pages have been changed slightly. The HOSP page is on the link below. This page has two methods, one is by wing trimming, the other using monofilament. http://home.comcast.net/~femad/p2/HOSP.htm Fawzi Emad in Laytonsville, Maryland femad"AT"comcast.net

From: Haleya Priest [mailto:mablue"at"gis.net]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: Not For Passive Birders - Sparrows

Haleya Priest Amherst MA
     Spookers are a good idea and you might also want to try some Gilbertsons. I have been able to keep HOSP from bothering my bbs by offering Gilbertsons right along side of wooden boxes (and using them as trap boxes).  :-) H

From: Kerry Sweet [mailto:ksweet3450"at"yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: Not For Passive Birders - Sparrows

I have to agree with Hayelya on the Gilbertson boxes they have been one of my best investments along with the in-house trap. Gilbertson paired with a wooden box is a great set-up ... it works for me. Kerry in NE corner of Okla.

From: PTom [mailto:ptom"at"austin.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 3:08 PM
Subject: Gilbertson nestboxes / Sparrow Resistant?

My experience is that bluebirds have selected the Gilbertson (PVC) nestbox when I have an unoccupied nestbox of lumber nearby. We all live in different worlds! Pauline Tom Mountain City (no mountains) TX

From: Kerry Sweet [mailto:ksweet3450"at"yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:02 PM
Re: Gilbertson nestboxes / Sparrow Resistant?

Pauline that is how mine works the Bluebirds will take the Gilbertson PVC nest box and the HOSP will almost always take the Wooden nestbox. I have an inhouse trap set in the wooden nestbox for the HOSP. It works great for me. Kerry in NE corner of Okla.

From: PTom [mailto:ptom"at"austin.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: Gilbertson nestboxes / Sparrow Resistant?

Oops.  I reworded part of my sentence after saying the wrong thing (not even knowing that I'd be showing Wendell that he's not the only one who makes mistakes.)  For me, the HOUSE SPARROWS have chosen the Gilbertson. Pauline

From: Kerry Sweet [mailto:ksweet3450"at"yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:28 PM
Re: Gilbertson nestboxes / Sparrow Resistant?

I knew it!! My HOSP are backwards!! I guess I can't say they choose the wooden nestbox every time but if they do choose the Gilbertson ... The Gilbertson in-house trap works great with it. Pauline is right "We all live in different worlds!" Kerry in NE corner of Okla.

From: Paula [mailto:PaulaZ"at"columbus.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:35 PM
Re: HOSP activity :( I

t isn't dark yet and I just captured male HOSP #4 (just this afternoon/evening) out of 2 boxes here on my street. I have no idea why - almost as if there is a convention in town... I reset the traps thinking I might get the female, but even better - two new males! Paula Z Powell (Central) Ohio

From: Burnham, Barbara [mailto:Barbara.Burnham"at"zzz.zzz]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 7:34 AM
RE: HOSP activity :(

Being invasive pest birds, HOSP often nest in great numbers in places like garden centers in big box stores (not to name names like Home Depot, Lowes, Wal-Mart, etc.) or even farm buildings where they are allowed to multiply. Sometimes when these businesses do take measures to eliminate them (do they, really?), these flocks will go elsewhere and we will see them at our nestboxes. No matter where they are, their offspring will radiate into nearby territories. HOSP are the very definition of "invasive species". Barbara Burnham Ellicott City, MD

From: Paula [mailto:PaulaZ"at"columbus.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:41 PM
Subject: Where God Wants You to Be

Do you ever think you are where God wants you to be? Today, I went to my trail armed only with a gas trimmer and a small screwdriver to open a box if I saw the need. I had the trimmer because I had asked park personnel to please not use Roundup around the bird poles and offered to trim around them instead (what I don't do for these birds)....As I then approached the infamous Box #1, I heard the distinctive chirping of the male HOSP. What to do? Here is another technique that is rather humorous, but works well for me. At about 30 feet behind the box, I set down the trimmer, and slipped off my shoes and socks so I could use a sock to stop up the hole. Luckily, it was high noon so I did not cast a shadow. I snuck up on him, stuffed my sock in the hole and voila, trapped. The TRES in the box next to him (less than 10 feet away) with 7 eggs should be safer now. God works in mysterious ways. I am but an instrument, sweaty socks and all... Paula Z Powell (Central) Ohio

From: Paula [mailto:PaulaZ"at"columbus.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:06 PM
e: Where God Wants You to Be - Warning HOSP stuff

He did not remain trapped. As soon as I blocked the hole, I then used the screwdriver to back screw out of box. Then I very carefully, just finger width, inched my right hand in to grab him while blocking off all other exit with my left hand. If he starts to move quick, I move slower. Slow and easy does it. They will usually drop right into your hand, but for this one, I had to reach to top of the box. I then immediately used thoracic compression and killed him. This was all finished in less than a minute. Since I didn't have a bag with me, he got to go home in one of my socks :) He is now getting freezer burn with his friends and I will take him to the Ohio Wildlife Center for the raptors to eat when I make a trip out that way. Please let me refer you to Bet's wonderful website: http://www.sialis.org/index.html Click on HOSP management on left to learn a lot. I'm really not an expert BTW. They often get away when you try to sneak up on them. I think God had me on a mission today. Paula Z Powell (Central) Ohio

From: Cher
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 1:11 PM
Subject: Where did your website go?
Fawzi,

I went to look for your web pages this morning - looking for the section on
HOSP wing trimming - and your website is gone! Have you moved it recently?
I have a male HOSP in hand, wanting to try the trimming thing, and don't
have a clue how to go about it.

Recently I had to "re-do" my website.  Comcast changed its rules about file names.  It took a few days to get it all worked out.  My website is at: http://home.comcast.net/~femad/ The pages about Bluebirds, HOSP, etc. are at: http://md.fpemad.com/p1/bluebirds.htm If anyone has a previously marked page on my website and cannot reach it, please let me know so I can send you the new page address.  Also, please test my website to see that all the links in it work, all the pictures are correct, etc., and let me know if anything does not work as you'd like and expect.  Thank you very much!  Fawzi.  [P.S. Thank you Cherie, your note below reminded me to let everyone know about the change!]
Fawzi Emad in Laytonsville, Maryland
femad"AT"comcast.net

From: Debi Money [mailto:dmoney"at"getatlas.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 8:11 PM
Subject: Hold on to your hats! :):)

Boy do I have news!! AS of today I have five wonderful BB babies! And in the house in the back Stupid oh HOSP showed up again, well, I went out and looked and sure enough he had started his dumb nest and then later he was sitting on top cheep cheeping UCK! well, in the meantime I had slipped in Mr. Van Ert's trap ( I haven't had time to get a Huber) Well, The news is I used the method I had learned from you wonderful people and I just successfully killed my first male HOSP! me little debi money in Spfld. Mo! All this before I make my husband's dinner. I am so happy! Mr. and Mrs. Blue are doing well, life is good. Thak you all for making this possible. :-) Joy in birding debi money Spfld. Mo NABS member P.S. I left the house up in the back to use as a decoy like you guys told me to, because where there is one.....

From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 12:16 AM
Re: stubborn house sparrow

I think that Carol DID have another empty nestbox. Too bad that the HOSP didn't use it instead of killing the nestlings. IMO, this is a great example of why sparrows should not be allowed in areas where we have nestboxes. Too many times, I have seen sparrows dislodge other cavity nesters EVEN when there were empty nestboxes 15 ft away! Dottie Roseboom Peoria IL (central - zone 5)

From: Paula [mailto:PaulaZ"at"columbus.rr.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 9:36 AM
Re: Stubborn House Sparrow - WARN - HOSP control :(

Carol, I got a kick out of your subject heading because it is an oxymoron. I am so sorry to hear about the EABL loss. I think it has happened to all of us. I have not lost a EABL egg, chick or adult to house sparrows (HOSP) here on our street since I started actively trapping the little buggers (at least 5 years now). I have had a few problems on my trail where I cannot monitor as vigilantly, but not many. The only real passive sparrow control measure I use is to not feed millet seed mix at my feeder (only sunflower oilers and I actually only feed these in the fall and winter). I also ask my neighbors not to set the stuff out. The rest of my HOSP management is active control which means trapping and killing them. I would recommend buying yourself a good inbox trap. The Van Ert Universal HOSP trap is my personal favorite and can be purchased through the mail. It is $7.50 + shipping. Go to http://www.vanerttraps.com/universal.htm for form and info. Also get yourself a mesh laundry bag with a drawstring closure and a stubby (short) handled phillip's head screwdriver. That is all you need. Some people actually set up a box they intend just for trapping HOSP, but I just put trap in whatever box they have "claimed". If you do decide to dedicate a box for them, you can use a 1 1/4" hole. This allows the HOSP to enter, but is too small for the EABL. If you do this, put box where you know HOSP love - near your house. I don't dedicate a special trapping box (smaller hole) but you can. I just try to have at least one empty box at all times. That way, if a HOSP wants a box (to try to nest), he is much more likely to go to the empty box rather than dealing with Papa Blue. If there are no empty boxes available and he decides he wants one, the EABL are in much greater danger. Only put trap in box after you see a HOSP in or on the box. He will "claim" the box and sit on or inside it and "CHEEP" away. He is trying to call a mate and telling her "look what I found". Male HOSP bond with their box and are very hard to "evict" - i.e. if you continue to pull out his nest and/or eggs, he will continue to build and may get angry and kill other birds near him. That is why I leave things in "his" box as undisturbed as possible until he is trapped and dead. So you have him cheeping away. Open box and leave as much nesting material as possible (make sure trap can spring freely shut) and any eggs that you find - leave those too (for now). Set the trap and close the box securely. Stick a piece of dried grass out of the hole so he thinks another bird has been messing with his box (makes him more eager to go in there). You can also put a couple feathers or nesting material on ground under house if you like, making him more likely to pick it up and fly into the box to add to his nest. When he hits the trip wire, he is trapped alive in there. You can see that the trap is tripped because hole will be blocked by trap mechanism. If it is tripped, you almost certainly have a bird in there. Please note that HOSP are very tricky and will often play possum when you come to get them. Back out screw or whatever hardware secures the box closed, but do not open it. Put mesh laundry bag over entire house and cinch tight around pole. I also hold it there with my hand. Now open the box. He or she will fly into the bag. Grab bird securely through mesh before taking bag off house. You can easily see what you have and if it is a native bird, release it. If it is a HOSP (as it almost certainly is), kill it in the bag. I use thoracic compression on chest of bird with my thumb (push very hard) - or you can smack bag really hard against hard surface. Both methods are really pretty humane and quick. If you want to recycle them, you can freeze them and bring to wildlife rehabber for raptor rehab, but call and make sure they can use them first. I reset the trap after I catch a HOSP, hoping to catch the mate. The female often abandons the nest if she realizes the male is gone and she is not nearly the threat that he is. After you kill the male, you can remove all nesting material and eggs and throw in trash. The trap uses two mounting screws. Leave those in the box for quick trap placement next time you need it. Remove the trap and box is ready for another bird. Traps must be carefully monitored because you don't want any bird in there very long. You usually catch them within an hour. Active HOSP management makes all the native birds so much safer. Any HOSP that tries to nest in one of my boxes is quickly killed. Paula Z Powell (Central) Ohio

From: immary"at"direcway.com
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 10:02 PM
Subject: Bluebird eggs destroyed

I have 3 nesting boxes. A pair of eastern bluebirds built 2 nests and laid eggs in one. Yesterday they had 3 (maybe 4) eggs. This morning a house sparrow was in the house. When I checked the house the eggs were gone with just a few pieces of shells remaining. The bluebird couple came back to the box when I was walking away this morning - but have now been gone the remainder of the day. Should I remove the nesting materials? How about the other nest they were working on - should I clean that out? We plan to trap/dispose of the house sparrow - from what I can tell it is just one.

Mary, NW Wisconsin

From: Brucemac1"at"aol.com [mailto:Brucemac1"at"aol.com]
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: Stubborn House Sparrow - WARN - HOSP control :(

Good Morning Paula, I want to thank you for the 'HOSP' tips that you've shared with us this season. I've found that the sprig of nesting material sticking out of the entrance is Super-effective.....!!! You're right, too, it usually only takes a few minutes to catch the male HOSP using this trick. I've managed to keep the area immediately adjacent to my home relatively free of HOSP this season. Our "Trail area" is quite a different story tho. We've lost several BB & TRES nests to HOSP. One puzzling thing I've noticed over the past few weeks, .....the last four or five male HOSP that I've captured have been "Silent". I have not heard their usual "Cheeping" at the nest box. Visual sightings only have tipped me off to their presence. Have you ever encountered this new ploy...?? Bruce Macdonald, SW Ontario,  south of Detroit

From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com]
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:29 AM
Re: Stubborn House Sparrow - WARN - HOSP control :(

Hi Bruce, I'm adding my 2 cents - in my experience, I have trapped many HOSP throughout the years that did not "cheep". These are usually the sparrows that already have a nestbox & mate established elsewhere. Therefore, they are not wanting the nestbox for personal use, and there is no need to "cheep". I have also trapped HOSP before they decided if they wanted a particular nestbox for home, and therefore "cheeping" had not yet begun. This happened in a few cases where the trap had been installed for a different HOSP, and the rogue dropped in first! If I had not been carefully observing the nestbox, I would not have known that I had caught the "wrong" sparrow. So, keep your ears & EYES open! Dottie Roseboom Peoria IL (central - zone 5)

From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com]
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:13 AM
Subject: Bluebird eggs destroyed

Yes, Bruce, I think that the tragical evidence that we see, is small compared to the overall detrimental effects of sparrows. With my nestboxes being close enough for daily observation, I believed that I was trapping sparrows as soon as they were being a problem. Last Christmas, wonderful hubby gave me a digital camcorder. Just for fun, I've set it up to record at various nestboxes. I was shocked to discover HOSP were harassing all nests in varying degrees. A nestbox with a hole restrictor prevented the sparrow from entering & harming the chickadees. However, he was dive-bombing the parents as they attempted to feed the young. At the bluebird box, the sparrow tried to enter the nestbox - a fledging, mouth wide opened, scared him off (that was so funny!). The sparrow also intimated TRES as they were nestbuilding. I think that this was a sparrow that I had permitted to build in a nearby box - I wanted some HOSP eggs for demonstration purposes. Forget the eggs, this misbehaving guy was to be no more. Most of this harassment, I would have not seen without the tape. I am beginning to believe that the terrible feuding that we do see, is just the tip of the iceberg. So far, knock on wood, I have NOT lost any eggs or nestlings to HOSP for 9 years. I am very aggressive on ground & in-box trapping. However, I do wonder about the stress-level that the native birds have as they maintain constant watchfulness for sparrows. And sometimes, they abandon good nestboxes & completed nests to start over at poorer locations. These detrimental effects are harder to "count" than broken eggs. I usually see when HOSP have caused nest abandonment, and trap. The cavity nesters usually return, but they have lost time - perhaps pushing the nestlings into hotter weather. For people that have very limited access to their trails, I suspect that HOSP cause more abandonments than they realize, because sometimes, the sparrow does NOT build in that nestbox, as he already has one established nearby. In these cases, I utilize ground traps or a pellet gun. Have a great (and safe) week-end. Dottie Roseboom Peoria IL (central - zone 5)

From: Glenn Williams [mailto:glenwill"at"chilitech.net]
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 12:47 AM
Subject: Kathy Clark...

Regarding mono filament on nest boxes, 2 seasons back I rigged a box, that was visible from our living room picture window, with mono-line. My entire family was doubled over with laughter at the dumb HOSP that tried, repeatedly, for hours to enter the rigged box! He literly would bounce off the taunt vertical mono lines and at times would almost tumble through the air to the ground!! Best regards, Glenn N. Central PA, USA 40.9090N, 76.8560W ps. I no longer resort to passive control, as soon as I see a HOSP looking interested in one of my boxes I install my VanErt and they are history!!

From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 9:54 AM
Subject: Bluebird eggs destroyed

Mary, I noticed that no one gave an answer to your question - perhaps by this time, you've had off-line help. If not, I'll make a few comments. There are several different opinions on removing the nest in this situation. 1) Leave the nest - when blues are laying eggs, some pairs are NOT visibly hanging around the nestbox. I would say if egg-laying has not restarted within 4 -5 days, the pair probably has gone elsewhere - perhaps to the other nest. BTW, you are sure that both nests were theirs? I have seen 2 nests being built when HOSP were harassing Bluebirds. If the parents start building on top of this current nest, you may have to remove a bottom portion of the nest (don't damage the "cup") so that the nestlings are not too close to the entrance. Another reason that monitors remove nests is for sanitation. This nest should still be fairly clean. 2) Remove the nest - which sometimes triggers the "nesting" instincts and the pair will resume building a nest. When dealing with nesting problems caused by HOSP, I have observed that if the sparrow is immediately trapped, the blues will return to the nest, fluff it up and begin egg-laying. When trapping is delayed for 3 - 4 days, the blues are more inclined to abandon the nestbox. So, if you're able to immediately trap (within 24 hrs or so), I would leave the nest. When the HOSP has been dominating the box for several days, and I don't see the blues returning, I usually remove the nest. BTW, you mention that "it is just one". Yep, it's almost always just one sparrow. However, please be forewarned - if you have dispatched this sparrow, he will no longer be protecting this nestbox from other sparrows (hmmm, maybe there IS a good side to sparrows) As soon as another sparrow realizes that it's only bluebirds protecting this nestbox, he will seize the opportunity to evict the bluebirds. A rather vicious cycle. So, whether or not you have removed the nest, for the next several days, be watching for the sparrow that wants to replace the dispatched HOSP. Dottie Roseboom Peoria IL (central - zone 5)

From: immary"at"direcway.com [ mailto:immary"at"direcway.com ]
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 12:54 PM
Subject: Bluebirds are back after sparrow detroyed eggs

Thank you to those the replied privately to my question on what to do with the nest after the sparrow destroyed the eggs. I have removed the old nest - since it had egg yolk in it. So I now have 2 empty houses and one with the first nest the bluebirds made. I saw the couple yesterday checking out all the houses - so hopefully they will stay. Today it is raining and the male bluebird is sitting on the house with the nest in it. I haven't seen the sparrow since yesterday morning. We are hoping to trap him this weekend.

A little about my bluebird houses: I live in the country in the middle of several open acres that belong to my father. I have wood line to the west of the house and open fields sounding us. The houses are in the back yard (far away from the house in an open field - we have 3 acres). I watch them constantly through my kitchen window. Last year when we just had one house the tree swallows won the fight for it. The sparrow did attacked the female swallow on her eggs - but since I keep such a close look out, I was able to rescue her. We then put up 3 more houses and that kept the sparrow away from the tree swallows for the summer. I removed the sparrow eggs and nesting material throughout the summer. I have been shooting at the sparrow - but find it very hard to hit such a small target from my kitchen window!

Mary, NW Wisconsin

From: Brucemac1"at"aol.com [mailto:Brucemac1"at"aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: Bluebirds are back after sparrow detroyed eggs

Hi Mary, I have had much success trapping male HOSP, thanx to tips from PaulaZ. If I may offer some advice......... The moment you notice a Male HOSP sitting on a nestbox, entering it, singing near it, I'd set a trap inside the box. Take a few long strands of nesting material and insert them halfway into the entrance, letting the other half hang out. Move well away, out-of-sight if you can, and watch until male HOSP returns to defend his territory. You shouldn't have to wait long. He'll come to investigate and will think another bird is beginning a nest. He'll jump into the box and .........BINGO...!!  You should have him. I use a large plastic bag to cover the box, securely. Then I reach in and grab him. I never say any prayers for him either. If you keep removing  the nesting materials, rather than trapping, sooner, rather than later, the HOSP are very likely to become angry and invade nearby nestboxes. You want to avoid that unfortunate circumstance. Keep up the good work....!! Bruce Macdonald,  SW Ontario, south of Detroit, north shore of Lake Erie

From: Simon [mailto:simon"at"bowecho.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 2:39 PM
Subject: HOSP

an someone direct me to a scientific source that will tell me whether or not sparrows have a limbic system or rather, a limbic system that functions like it does in mammals? The limbic system is the part of the brain that higher animals use to feel emotions, pain, fear etc. If sparrows do not have a mammalian-like limbic system, then killing one should be no more "traumatic" than killing snakes (which we have no problem doing). Snakes and birds being closely related. If someone could settle this once and for all, I think it would make it easier for new Bluebirders to use definitive measures to control HOSP. Theresa"at"BowEcho.com

From: Kenny Kleinpeter [mailto:kpkmajk"at"cox.net]
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 3:29 PM
RE: HOSP

If sparrows have such a system, then certainly bluebirds do too. I have no problem in the world "humanely" killing an undesirable bird that inflicts such trauma on desirable birds. :) Kenny Kleinpeter Baton Rouge, LA Member, LBBS

From: Simon [mailto:simon"at"bowecho.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 7:27 PM
RE: HOSP Indeed.

So then we would be helping the bluebirds simply because they are beautiful and beneficial. Not because they "appreciate" the help. Eh? -theresa

From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 10:58 PM
Re: HOSP

Boy, this could generate lots of email! I have no idea if birds have a limbic system - but I'm not sure that I see why that matters in regards to taking a life. Snakes, wasps, flies, spiders, etc, all are breathing, feeling, moving creatures. But so many people kill these animals without even thinking about it. Have you ever really watched the intricate webmaking of a spider, especially of the big, beautiful, yellow garden spider? I could go on & on about frogs, toads, snakes, & all sorts of interesting bugs that deserve to live, but are killed just on someone's whim. Yep, I am a crazy woman! I never kill spiders, flies, bees, wasps, bugs, or even snakes. And I don't understand people who do. The only mice that are dispatched are those in the kitchen (have to draw the line somewhere). And I haven't eaten beef, fowl, or pork in years. BTW, if being a "mammal" constitutes a reason for something not to be killed, does this include moles, rabbits, mice, rats, and bats? Everyone knows that I aggressively trap HOSP. They are only critters that I kill. LOL - I even release the hated Asian "ladybugs" that swarm through the house every spring & fall. It took 3 little dead bluebird nestlings to convince me that for every sparrow that I allowed to exist on my property, that I was indirectly contributing to the death of another bird. Being a pragmatic person, if I have to have a dead bird, I'd rather for it to be a HOSP than a bluebird. Yep, people are funny about life. Several weeks ago, I was talking to a neighbor about her martin house full of HOSP. She looked me straight in the eye and said "I believe everything deserves to live" as she stepped over to squash a grand-daddy-long-legs. The shock of seeing such instant violence while hearing that statement made me rather sick. Yes, everything deserves to live - wish that the spider and those 3 bluebird nestlings would have had a chance. Dottie Roseboom Peoria IL (central - zone 5)

From: MLieb20810"at"aol.com [mailto:MLieb20810"at"aol.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 9:52 PM
Subject: update

Hi Paula, I was away for a few days and was off line but our 4 bluebird eggs hatched last monday so they are 7 days old today.  It has been rather cool the past few days here in Delaware so I have been feeding the parents lots of meal worms.  I'd venture to say that our bluebirds are probably the best fed birds here in New Castle, County.  You can now hear the babies from my deck when they are being fed. As some of you may remember...last year I removed loads of house sparrows using mostly a huber trap inside the nest boxes.  I removed so many last year that we were able to have one successful nest of blue birds after several times that the blue birds were evicted.  I think if anyone can go thru what I did and have it work out none of you with house sparrow trouble should give up hope.  But you have to be preapred to remove house sparrows whenever possible and you know Paula. Since I removed so many sparrows last year..I only had to remove about 12 total this time around.  For three weeks we have not seen a house sparrow in my yard...but I did see one yesterday and he was chased away by our blue birds.  I have a second house ready for any house sparrows who show up and cause trouble. Hopefully my next post will be about fledglings. Mike DE

From: Paula [mailto:PaulaZ"at"columbus.rr.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 11:24 PM
Re: update Good work Mike!

I think you are an old pro at the HOSP control thing now. I hope we do hear about another successful fledging from you soon. I think we will. This weekend, we went to South Bass Island where I put up a purple martin (PUMA) housing station this spring. I was happy to see 12 of the desired birds in and on the housing. Then I saw that there was a lone, stalwart Mr. HOSP sitting in one of the gourds with his HOSP head sticking out. He wasn't making any noise - not as boisterous as the usual HOSP I see at a solitary nestbox. I am new to the PUMA experience and was a bit surprised that they tolerated his presence. He had not attracted a mate yet, but had hauled a whole mess of HOSP stuff into the gourd. I cleaned it out twice this weekend, tried to get him several times with the BB-gun, and think I finally got him investigating an EABL box this afternoon. I saw him go in and put a rag in the hole and captured him. Mr. HOSP has not been back to PUMA gourd since, so I think it was him. PUMA so far have 3 active nests with 7 eggs. This is very fun and exciting for me to hear them chortling (best way I can describe the sound) away and to see their little mud and leaf nests. They hide the eggs under green leaves. I also observed a male HOSP picking off mayflies one by one off the side of our house today. I originally thought he had nesting material in his beak, but as I watched his behavior, I saw what he was doing. The mayflies last at the island for 2 - 4 weeks and they are intense, covering houses. Have a happy holiday. Paula Z Powell (Central) Ohio & South Bass Island (Ohio's north coast & beyond)

From: Paula [mailto:PaulaZ"at"columbus.rr.com]
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 10:25 AM
Re: Stubborn House Sparrow

Bruce, Interesting observation about HOSP on your trail and HOSP at home. I have had the same experience here at home and on my trail. My native nesters at home have actually been safer than the native nesters on my trail due to my ability to actively and vigilantly control the HOSP where I live. The trail is only monitored by me once or twice a week and I cannot observe the HOSP activity nearly as well. I live in a suburban subdivision with homes on 1/4 to 1/3 acre lots with two story homes so the HOSP destruction on our street should be much more prevalent than on my park trail where there are only two homes adjacent to it. I have heard some say that you should not install bluebird boxes where there are human houses due to HOSP competition problems. If active HOSP control measures are not used, I would have to agree with that recommendation. If active control measures ARE used, however, I would strongly disagree with this recommendation. Regarding your observation about silent Mr. HOSP - I have seen this too in some instances. They are more likely to be silent IMHO when they have already found their mate. I have also observed them being silent in areas where there is higher competition for boxes as well. At my trail on South Bass Island where there are 56 TRES eggs being incubated right now, the TRES are very competitive for any nestbox and I see some quiet HOSP trying to sneak in there or sitting silently with their head out the hole keeping a low profile, just hoping a Mrs. HOSP might happen by and fall in love with his handsome mug. Between me and the TRES, he doesn't have a chance... Paula Z Powell (Central) Ohio

From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com]
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 2:14 PM
Re: Stubborn House Sparrow

Paula, Great post! I especially agree with your statement that active sparrow control will allow people to enjoy Bluebirds in their backyards. If we can get the word out - that Bluebirds will come to good habitat (NO SPARROWS), perhaps more people would be erecting a bluebird house in their backyards. So much of our country is being sub-divided. Prime pastures are being turned into neighborhoods. This "progress" doesn't have to negatively impact the Bluebird. By setting good examples, we can help others see that tree swallows, chickadees, titmouses, and bluebirds can co-exist with us. Well, enough preaching to the choir. BTW, at the present time, I have TRES within 40' of our bedroom, bluebirds within 40' of our garage, house wrens about 80' from the kitchen, barn swallows in the barn, about 65' from the house, and chickadees, bluebirds, & Carolina wrens have just fledged. These numbers do NOT count the robins, goldfinches, woodpeckers, etc. that are nesting in "natural" places around our home. Provide habitat, and they will come. Dottie Roseboom Peoria IL (central - zone 5)

From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 10:42 PM
Subject: Final Issue of "Nature Society News"

Don't know how many people on this list ever read the "down-home" newspaper "Nature Society News", published in Griggsville, IL, since 1966. Got word today that the June issue will be the last one published. Too bad, as they usually had at least one good article on sparrows, hummingbirds, or bluebirds, in addition to their Purple Martin articles. This issue mentioned that a Florida landlord (of PUMA) went through quite a rig-amore because of her ST-1 trap. A neighbor turned her in "because the trap was inhumane" She was facing a $500 fine if she did not immediately stop using the trap. She is currently seeking assistance from a wildlife conservation attorney. Perhaps this is a warning to anyone that is using traps to be cautious about "displaying" them. Also monitor the trap often, making sure that no natives are caught, as this IS illegal. Dottie Roseboom Peoria, IL (central - zone 5)

From: Glady's Reyes [mailto:reyesg"at"yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 11:11 AM
Subject: Need Help!!! Glady's Y Reyes Hawthorn Woods, IL (approximately 25 miles NW of Chicago)

I am fairly new to the list and BBs. I have volunteered to take over the maintenance of the bird houses at the back of my sons' school. They have approximately five accress of land with two (that is what I have found so far) BB houses and one Purple Martin house. Upon closer inspection (a few feet away), a beautiful pair of BBs occupies one of the houses (can't see if they have chicks since there is no way to open the houses!). Now for the bad news, the Martin house has a couple of HOSP nests in them. Now for my question...Would like to remove the HOSP nests (and chicks/eggs if any), but don't want the HOSPs to take this out on the BBs nesting about 20 feet away. What should I do? Would like to trap the HOSPs, but not sure how to do this in the Martin house. Your help is appreciated!

From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 11:17 PM
Re: Need Help!!!

Hi Gladys, Glad to see that we have another Illinoisan - bring on the bluebirds! It's great to see schools participate in "nature". And it's made possible because of great people like you helping out. There are several ways to address the problems. Since there are sparrows present, I would definitely trap them. If the Purple Martin House is a standard one, traps can be bought to fit inside the apartments. If it isn't standard, and you can reach the apartments, you might try stuffing a rag or sock into the entrance hole - I believe Bet has the "how to" on her website. You can also resort to the ST-1 ground trap - stuff it with feathers or nesting material to appeal to the HOSP. Depending on many variables, you may have trouble trapping in the martin house. If so, you might want to leave them alone. Allow them to build the nest and lay eggs. THEN, you can sterilize the eggs and leave them in the nest, and the sparrows MIGHT not bother the bluebirds. Since sparrows are present, I would also thoroughly examine the bluebird nestboxes, checking for any screws that might allow the top or a side to be removed. Sparrows usually do NOT mind their own business and you will probably need access to the nestboxes to install traps. I would at least retool the empty nestbox, so that the blues will have someplace to go if the sparrows get rowdy. A flashlight and small dental mirror will also help you look inside the nestbox with the blues. If babies are not present, I would think about retooling this box too. If done on location, the blues probably won't mind too much. Because of the sparrow problems, the nestboxes need to be accessible. Also, if all 5 acres is good bluebird habitat, I would add at least 1 more bluebird nestbox. House sparrows seem to congregate with other HOSP, so you may have quite a few to trap. Since the nestboxes are on school grounds, traps inside nestboxes would be less noticeable than the ground traps. If money is no problem, get a couple more nestboxes - they will probably be handy. Bluebirds are fairly accommodating. When they can't handle the sparrows, they move into an empty box, allow me to trap the sparrow, and then they reclaim the original nestbox. Be aware that when the dominant male sparrow is trapped, that other sparrows will move in on his territory. I have trapped as many as 5 male sparrows, within several weeks at the same nestbox. Have fun teaching the kids about the beautiful bluebirds - you certainly are a courageous lady! www.sialis.org/hosp.htm www.sialis.org/hospdispatch.htm www.purplemartin.org

From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 10:37 AM
Re: Need Help!!! :-( :-( :-(

Good point, Judy. I just assumed that the volunteer would have already received permission to proceed as needed. Many monitors will not take over a trail without having permission to trap. So, Gladys, be sure to check, if you haven't already done so. And I can dispatch a sparrow so quickly that most children would never notice. If this might be a problem, Gladys, please dispatch very early or very late at night and reduce the chances of being seen. And talking about trauma to children: several years ago, 2 young boys & I had been regularly monitoring a trail. I had not seen HOSP in this area and was completely shocked to turn the bend and spot a HOSP atop the nestbox. Before I could say anything, the kids had run ahead, and found several dead nestlings on the ground, their eyes had been plucked out. If the school children are around these nestboxes with HOSP, they might also get to see similar results. In discussion with most kids, they realize that bullies must be controlled and are not usually unduly upset with trapping. I find that the PARENTS are the ones who complain about the kids being exposed to dispatching. Gladys, I'm sorry that I did not mention about the permission. I hope that you either have it or can obtain it. People that do not have HOSP can not imagine the harm that they do to native populations. Dottie Roseboom Peoria IL (central - zone 5)

From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 11:49 AM
Subject: RE: Need Help!!! :-( :-( :-(

We have trails on schools and fighting House Sparrows are the biggest problem. Trapping can be done after school and on Saturdays. Children see lots worse than this on TV. The grades we are involved with are old enough to know and handle the truth. If these same children have nestboxes at home, then what? Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA

From: Glady's Reyes [mailto:reyesg"at"yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 1:34 PM
RE: Need Help!!! :-( :-( :-(

Thanks to all for the wonderful information and recommendations! I have notified and received approval to do as I feel necessary to help the native birds. I took a few of the teachers and children to where the male EABL was perching and hunting for food. They were all in ahh as to how beautiful he was and that they had never paid much attention. Also pointed to the HOSPs and explained their history and the risks they pose to our native cavity nesters. While I will not be doing much 'active' control of HOSPs during the times children are present, I will be doing this...just strategizing as to the best plan right now. BTW, my two sons, four and seven, have seen me take active control of HOSPs and Starlings and has had no negative impact on them. As a matter of fact, what had the most impact was when we found a dead chickadee in one of our boxes (in our yard)after a HOSP killed him. They were really upset at this since they love the little guys. Of course, that was when I practiced 'passive' control. No casualties (except for the HOSPs) since. Will keep you guys updated on my situation. Have also ordered a couple of Martin house traps which should arrive tomorrow and plan on doing 'trapping' on Saturday. Wish me, and the EABLs luck!!! Glady's

From: judymellin [mailto:judymellin"at"netzero.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 11:21 AM
Re: Need Help!!! :-( :-( :-(

Hi Dottie- I, too, assume that this person has permission to "monitor" but I just think it's important that the school be aware that the suggested actions go far beyond what most people would define as "monitoring." Webster defines this as "to watch or check on (a person or thing)" and, outside of some of the folks on this list, I think that is what most folks would think about when they heard that word. And I would be very surprised if a school would ever think that trapping and killing would be involved. I just think that it is very important that the school realize the extent of the activities, if the person who made the original post takes the advice that is being given. Maybe you can dispatch in a "timely" fashion but it's a big assumption that others have this "skill." Judy Mellin NE IL.

From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 11:48 AM
RE: Need Help!!! :-( :-( :-(

We have cub scouts (and adults) that attend our nestbox workshops and we have presentations after assembling of the nestboxes. In our presentation,all the facts about predators are discussed and ways to rid our nestboxes and trails of them. There are no facts left out. Both passive and aggressive control is discussed. I've not yet seen anyone get upset, in fact many questions are asked. These cub scouts took nestboxes home to put up. They can decide for themselves which method they choose. By the way, our situation is a little unusual. Our Cub Scouts are doing an excellent job on their trail monitoring, mainly because they have a wonderful leader. To my surprise, it is adult project leaders on other trails that have let us down about monitoring. We are working to correct this problem. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA

From: Paula [mailto:PaulaZ"at"columbus.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 12:10 PM
Re: Need Help

Our little neighbor boy down the street, age 9 I believe, was introduced to bluebirding by his teacher at school. They have a bluebird trail at several of the elementary schools in our district. The trails are used as educational tools for the children. The children help to monitor the boxes, and although they don't actually dispatch the HOSP themselves, they know how and why it is done. This same little boy expressed great interest in my bluebird boxes and asked what I was doing with the HOSP one day. I started to explain what thoracic compression was, but he chimed right in and told me all about it! Apparently, his teacher had explained it all to the kids. He asked me for his own box and he now has 4 CACH due to fledge any day now. I view HOSP control a little like mouse control in your house. They are cute and brown and one of God's precious creatures until you discover they've defecated in your utensil drawer (mice) or killed your EABL (HOSP). Children, and even adults, can understand more than we give them credit for. Paula Z Powell (Central) Ohio

From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"tds.net]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 1:23 PM
Re: Need Help

Paula Z. et al, I like your analogy. It goes right to the heart of the matter. If anything, I'd say that HOSPs in our yards are WORSE than mice in our kitchens. At least the mice don't kill things, though they do startle some of the people some of the time. An even better analogy would be , in my opinion. Let's face it. HOSP are a pernicious plague, a danged nuisance, and a murderous menace, and the more HOSP we can "transform" the better. There are many things that they can be "transformed" into. Bruce Burdett, SW NH

From: Joe Huber [mailto:hubertrap"at"webtv.net]
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2004 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: update

Things seem to be going ok for you so far, Be sure to rid your yard of the HOSP as soon as the Bluebirds hatch and fledge. I never liked to take chances like you have, so trapped HOSP immediately when they showed up. This eliminates any fear of retaliation and does eliminate the problem immediately. Joe Huber, Venice Fl. formerly Heath Ohio

From: Elaine Piligian [mailto:birdlady5211960"at"yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 12:07 AM
Subject: male HOSP destroys infertile eggs

My day has gone from bad to worse. Early today I wrote about my EABL eggs that have not hatched (this is the second brood that did not hatch). I was upset enough about the possibility that the male EABL is sterile and that we might not see any baby EABL this year. Well, this afternoon I went to the box to check on the eggs and I was surprised to find them all on the ground with holes in them. The nest was undisturbed. So I very quickly removed the nest and picked up all of the eggs and disposed of them. At first I thought maybe the EABL parents did this, but then I started reading up and it was quite clear that this was the work of HOSP. Before I could finish my research, I looked out my window to see a male HOSP very boldly going in and out of this box. The interesting part is that there are two more neighboring boxes: one currently has 5 baby TRES and the other box has been empty for a while. That is the box that the HOSP usually go in and out of. Why did the HOSP go after these eggs all of a sudden. (The only saving grace is that these eggs were definitely infertile and that the parent EABL were not hurt.) I did see the parent EABL around during the rest of the day. I am curious as to whether they will rebuild. But now I am quite worried that this HOSP will continue to try to take over this EABL box. I know I have to exterminate the HOSP, but I don't know if I can bring myself to do it. I have looked at some of the plans for traps, but they seem so confusing. The truth of the matter is: neither my husband nor I have the time to sit and watch a box that has a trap in it. Does the monofilament work? Many bluebirds have fledged from this same box over the past few years, and this year is not going well at all for the EABL. Now I'm worried about my baby TRES. What to do...what to do? Elaine Harleysville, PA

From: Joe Huber [mailto:hubertrap"at"webtv.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 3:10 PM
Re: male HOSP destroys infertile eggs