Problems with house sparrows on the bluebird trail (Part 11)

Active Control (Traps, Guns, Hooks, Oil, Pricking, Egg Removal, etc.)

Also see other HOSP information under Passive Control, Philosophy, Lime, General, Disposal, etc. In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website: 

[Thread continued from Part 10]

From: Lee & Jim Johnson [mailto:mybuffy1"at"mindspring.com]
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 7:13 PM
Subject: Sparrow Attack

I have been on the List for about 5 yrs. and have not posted for quite sometime.

I am in the process of watching a sparrow attack on a nest with babies. I went out to water my flowers and saw Mom and Pop. Right in front of my eyes I saw another bird go into the nestbox. I went over screaming, opened the box and discovered one of the babies bleeding from (it appeared) the eye. Mom and Pop surprised me in that they didn't seem agressive, but seemed scared, and very cautiously watched from the top of the house. They have been going to another box in the yard. Is there anything I can do? The babies are about a week to week in a half. With so much commotion, I don't know if there are any dead ones in the box or not.

Lee in Missouri

From: David Middleton Edelen II [mailto:k98"at"bellsouth.net]
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 11:30 PM
Subject: Re: Sparrow Attack

Sparrows can be such a problem that some people invest in a BB gun. That seems cruel but sometimes it is about all that will work.

Dave

Every year I have more and more problems with sparrows. This week-end the strangest thing happened to me. I had put out new boxes up (Chalet style) which were immediately claimed by HOSP's. I let them start their nest.
Then, I transferred their nest into the nest box I use as a trap and reattach the 'trap' to the pole. Invariably, the male comes back and cannot resist checking his nest. I had been monitoring the trap from a distance when I noticed that a bird was stuck at the entrance hole and only its butt was showing. I panicked because it looked like the rear end of a titmice.
I grabbed the ladder (I set my boxes at 8 foot in height so that chickadees, titmice can also nest) and went to the box. I could not release the bird without opening the side door. So I did and, like a bandit the male sparrow
flew out ot the box. The bird caught in the entrance hole was the female
who had come to his rescue. I was not very good at identifying her rear
end, otherwise I would have unmounted the box and taken care of him too.
Oh well I could have had both but I was still happy to have caught her. I am told the male has left the neighborhood for good.

Anne-Marie Palermino
Lincoln, RI

From: John Schuster [mailto:wildwingco"at"earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: HOSP's and Van-Ert trap

Dear Anne-Marie and friends,

Well...all is well that ends well.

However, if your nest boxes are 8 feet high, then the hight could be contributing to your HOSP challenges. I'd suggest lowing the nest boxes to a manageable hight or string them up like Linda Violett does. All our Bluebird nest boxes are at a hight of 4.5 feet (from the ground to the base of the entry hole) and we very rarely have challenges with HOSP. We also bait and trap early to, before the nesting season comes into full swing (trapped 2 male HOSP this year only), and "knock on wood" we haven't had a problems with HOSP.

On a safety note, my pal Steve Simmons broke his shoulder last year, when he fell from his ladder (8 feet high) while cleaning out a Barn Owl nest box, also my best friend and raptor consultant, Sandy Etchell, broke her elbow and wrist in the Amazon, after stumbling over a stump on another one of her many expeditions there.

Birdering is suppose to be fun gang, but we have to be careful out there. When we are in the field doing installations, our Wild Wing Company, safety motto is "Know-body Gets Hurt".

In short, none of us are getting any younger, and if we get hurt (or worse) it takes a long time to heal up (if ever.)

Cheers and as always...

Happy Bluebird Trails To You, John Schuster

You could put a hole restrictor on. The dad and mom could feed them without the HOSP getting to them. Once a day you could take the restrictor off so the dad and mom could remove the fecal sac. As soon as they get done doing it put the restrictor back on. When it is time for them to leave the nest remove the restrictor. By this time maybe the HOSP has moved on.

Maynard Sumner
Flint, MI

From: David Middleton Edelen II [mailto:k98"at"bellsouth.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 8:58 AM
Subject: A couple of questions?

Hello all,
Just a quick 2 or 3 questions:
(1) Last year my sons, now 11 and 14, brought two dogs home and we let them keep them. Our back yard used to be pretty and tranquil, with Bluebirds nesting in my box (which is mounted on our privacy fence) and sitting on the top of the fence, flying and flitting around on a regular basis. Now our back yard has holes dug here and there and has those two big, noisy, rambunctious dogs running around it playing all the time. Now my work shift has changed, of which I am now on 2nd shift and I spend little to no time in the yard anymore. I suppose the bluebirds are still around because I cleaned out an old nest a couple of days ago (I hope it was old and not a new one with no eggs in it yet?!?). Do y'all think those dogs will effect whether or not bluebirds will still come around?? I also just mounted another box on the front side of our privacy fence facing the front yard.

(2) Also, I have always thought house sparrows were adorable. They were almost my favorite bird next to bluebirds. But lately in studying and getting into bluebirds I read that house sparrows are terrible to bluebirds, running the grownups from the nest and climbing in and pecking and killing the babies, thowing them out, etc., in order to take over the nesting box. Is that true y'all? If so, then sparrows are not that much on my favorites list anymore!

(3) Last year I watched my bluebirds study our box, then choose it. We watched them build a nest, then watched the eggs accumilate until there were like five bluebird eggs in it and the mama began incubating them. One day I went to check on my dear bluebirds and on the ground under the box were the remains of the eggs, half developed and busted up. What do y'all reckon did this? Other birds? A chipmonk? Yes, there is or was a chipmonk that lived under the woodpile not far from the bluebird house. I have watched that chipmonk climb that fence and run allong the top of it. So I reckon if it wanted to it could easily have dipped into that box. Do chipmonks do that sort of thing?
Thanks,
David Edelen
Millbrook, Al.

I nearly fell out of my computer chair when you said your favorite bird next to the Bluebird was the House Sparrow.

I don't have Chipmunks, but any climbing predator can do damage to the cavity nesters that do not have a guard on the pole and their boxes are placed on fences and on trees.

Yes, you can truly believe what you read about the House Sparrow. I would be certain that the work you described below is not that of a House Sparrow. If you are sure you don't have any in your area, maybe it wasn't. They are "hell on wheels" to Bluebirds.

Evelyn Cooper
Delhi, LA

Did you know that house sparrows and starlings are in serious decline in
England (where they're native)?

While the causes are not clear, it's hypothesized that, while nesting
habitat remains favorable, the birds are having difficulty finding
sufficient food to sustain them through the winter due to intense farming,
more efficient harvesting, use of insecticides, and less human garbage.

Full article at:
http://www.nwf.org/nationalwildlife/article.cfm?issueid=67&articleid=917

Interesting!

Rebecca J.

Too bad there isn't a program in England to
capture them here and release them ( after a
quarantine of course ) over there, I bet a lot of
people on this list would volunteer their time to help
them out. I know I would. It would seem to be better
than destroying them, as most of us are currently
doing.
Maybe an americanized HOSP or Starling would do
better over there.

George

From: Trish Culpepper [mailto:trishkcully"at"earthlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: A couple of questions?

Trish - Frankston, TX
Morning! I sent David an individual e-mail about my bad experience with having a bluebird nest box on my privacy fence. When you are new at this, you just don't know! David, it may be that you were successful for awhile because of the dogs in the backyard chasing off any predators....except the one who managed to get through. I just had to move my squirrel feeders outside my fence after twice having to chase down one of my Yorkies who had caught a little squirrel who couldn't climb up the fence fast enough. They are terriers and that is just what they do! (Luckily, the squirrels were okay as I caught them in time.) But I will not lure a squirrel or bluebird or any other innocent creature into my yard, only to put them at danger. They have a hard enough time surviving in the wild on their own....besides the risk to my Yorkies of being bit by one. Incidentally, the birds don't mind my dogs at all....but then it may depend on how your dogs react to them. Mine will chase them if they are on the ground, but otherwise they don't pay any attention to them.

I'll be brave & try your questions. :-)

1) Dogs actually spend a lot of time sleeping. Your bluebirds may not want to nest somewhere with such obvious "predators". (I'm sure the dogs would be very interested in the just-fledged, can't-fly-well babies, which would be dangerous for the poor birds no matter how friendly the dogs thought they were being.) Since your work schedule has changed & since the boys are responsible for the dogs, have them keep an eye on the bird houses, including the new one in the front. It's only fair. :-)

2) Yes, House Sparrows are very aggressive in finding & keeping nest boxes. They will chase the adults out & will even kill them in the box. Then, since they can't get the dead body out, they'll build their nest over it. Really very disturbing. They're a good "learning" bird for beginning bird watchers -- they're everywhere (almost) & not afraid of people, so you can see their behaviors very easily -- but they're not at all good for their bird "neighbors".

3) It was probably another bird that tossed the eggs out of your bluebird nest last year. A chipmunk would have eaten them. & yes, it could have been your House Sparrows, since they'll take over a box at any point.
It could also have been House Wrens.

To really know what's going on in your boxes, you need to check them at least once a week. You could post a paper on your fridge & keep track of what's going on & really impress your kids' friends when they visit. :-)

Sadly, tho, if you've got House Sparrows around, your chances for getting bluebird babies are pretty low. A lot of people on this list trap & dispatch their resident House Sparrows, which creates a much safer environment for their bluebirds.

Hope this spring is a good one for your birds. :-)

yours, Torrey

Torrey Moss
Kalamazoo Nature

From: Lee & Jim Johnson [mailto:mybuffy1"at"mindspring.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 6:09 PM
Subject: More on Sparrow Attack

Amazingly enough, I went to the nestbox as soon as I got home from work., and the babies were alive.

I had put up monafilament line and (with all the activity that I'm sure went on today) was entangled in one of the babies. I removed it--for that reason. Haven't had the best of luck with that except about in early Spring as a deterient. I was able to physically pick up 4 babies. I put out mealworms, (so they wouldn't have to leave for food) and of course, the whole thing started again. Mom and Pop get worms to feed the baby, the sparrow comes up and flys in the hole. He delights in sticking his head out of the hole; I find myself obsessed with looking out the window, opening the door and scaring him off. As soon as he pops out of the hole, Pop (and/or Mom) chases him. Right now, I wish I knew an accurate marksman. I would have no problem, right or wrong.

Scary stuff,
Lee in Missouri

From: elizabeth.young"at"spotplus.com [mailto:elizabeth.young"at"spotplus.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: More on Sparrow Attack

Do you have a sparrow spooker on the birdhouse?

Thanks all for the advice and info. While I know a little bit about birds, I
never knew that about House Sparrows. And believe me, they are everywhere
around here (Elmore, Autauga, and Montgomery Counties).
And another thing. When I can get me a pole of some sort, I am
moving my BB houses from the facing of the fence to a pole like they should
be.
Take care,
Dave

Trish - Frankston, TX
Dave....we used electrical conduit pipe which is fairly inexpensive....or
you can use PVC pipe. They are both less expensive than buying a pole
specifically for bird houses, I believe.

It was good to read John's post saying he has only had to trap 2 male HOSP this year. I do envy those that don't have a HOSP problem.

Yesterday, I got an e-mail from a friend who was trying to control HOSP with egg piercing and nest removal. She has 5 boxes by a pond and lost two nests of TRES to HOSP's (eggs smashed and tossed out) in the past couple of days.
She asked for my help. I met her on her trail this morning. We trapped 3 males, one female, and one chick whose egg piercing apparently didn't work.
I view this as trail maintenance and we were able to achieve this in about an hour. Peace on the trail once again...

I know many of you are fortunate to have trails in rural areas with few
HOSP, but in my area they are a constant battle. I have trapped 82 HOSP
this year so far. I live in the suburbs and maintain a small trail on my street in addition to two trails in park land settings. My street is a cul de sac with homes on 1/3 acre lots. We are in HOSP heaven here, but I have fewer HOSP problems at home than on my trails. I believe this is due to diligent trapping, both inbox and with repeating trap. I know many people wait for HOSP to construct most of their nest or even lay eggs before trapping, but I get them as soon as I see the male either in or on a box.
Often, I catch them before they even place nesting material in the box. We have 3 nesting pairs of EABL on our street right now that I am aware of. I am watching a female EABL build a nest in my box in the front yard as I write this.

A couple streets over, I saw that some neighbors had an EABL pair in a nestbox as well. I wrote them a letter introducing myself and stuck it on their front porch letting them know I was a resource if they needed help.
They contacted me and let me know they had lost a couple of EABL chicks last week. By the time I got there, a male HOSP was proudly sitting on the box, declaring to the world that he had new real estate. The two remaining chicks were dead in the box. After I explained what had happened, I asked the homeowner's permission to trap the HOSP and he enthusiastically agreed.
I introduced him to the Van Ert inbox trap and explained its use, etc. The homeowner was a quick study and dispatched the HOSP within the hour. It looks like TRES will use this box now.

Paula Z
Powell (Central) Ohio

Lee,

I'm sorry you had to go through this. If your Mom & Pop, whether EABB or TRES, are going to another nestbox, it's likely that they're abandoning their original nest and babies to the male HOSP. If the parents don't come back, a dedicated songbird rehab'er can raise any surviving nestlings if they're at least partly feathered.

Rehab'ers are saints. Nestlings have to be hand fed from morning twilight until dark. When you visit a rehab'er, note the temperature. They forego air conditioning on the hotest days of the year for their birds, get up at 4 am and don't go to sleep until all their charges are fed in the evening twilight. They're very special people.

English House Sparrows and European Starlings are, well 'super competitors' according to Steve Kroenke, a well known author whose main interest is Purple Martins. See
http://www.purplemartin.org/forum/viewtopic.php3?t=4766

My _OPINION_ is that only active control works for HOSP.
That means trapping and/or shooting. I do both combined with some passive measures. I don't put single boxes out anymore. I cluster four cavities 10 to 15' apart: a Peterson box, two NABS style boxes and a gourd. If a male HOSP wants a cavity, he will take it but he will generally (usually, in my experience) choose an empty box in a cluster rather than use time and energy to take over an occupied box. When I see a HOSP entering a box or a HOSP nest in a box, I insert a Van Ert (now my favorite) or Huber trap. I usually trap the HOSPs within an hour or two. Some male HOSP may see the change and not re-enter a box once the trap is in place, especially if he was once trapped and escaped. Then a good air rifle with a scope or a .410 shotgun is needed.

I hope your native songbirds can re-nest successfully this season. It sounds like they want do do so if they're already looking at another box. Most folks on the list know how you feel; we've lost native birds to HOSPs too.

Take care,

R J 'Tree' Greenwood
Catlett VA

From: John Schuster [mailto:wildwingco"at"earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 3:40 PM
Subject: Falconers vs local raptor rehab center for HOSP disposal

Dear Friends,

I just finished speaking with one of the best falconers in the country Getty Pollard http://www.b-1rd.com/ and Getty told me that you could log onto the following web site for falconers for giving away your trapped HOSP.

Falconer web site is: http://www.raptorsnest.com/

Though I know of some local falconers that would take trapped HOSP from me (that is if I had any), Getty told me that he thinks the best place is give your HOSP away would be a raptor rehab center. Getty also added that he would not feed a HOSP that he did not trap himself, or a HOSP in questionable health to one of his falcones worth thousands of dollars.

So, maybe it would be more prudent for all to either stay the course (kill HOSP as we trap them, or give your trapped HOSP to your local raptor rehab center, rather than falconers that may not take them (for the above reasons.)

...

John Schuster

Dear Paula and Co.,

My 100-box trail surrounding a series of barns where grain is dumped in open troughs for dairy cows is real HOSP heaven! I have a series of boxes that circle the barns that I consider my "line in the sand." I can only check this trail once-a-week. When I see evidence of sparrows nesting, I slap an insert trap on there as quickly as possible and move on. When I finish checking the trail, I go back and most of the traps have a sparrow in them.
It will be weeks before any sparrow bothers those boxes again. I can honestly say that sparrows have not interfered with any of the bluebird nests up to this point.

This is the inaugural year for this farm trail. Of the 100 boxes, the first nesting cycle has produced 19 nesting attempts with 87 eggs (4.58 clutch rate); 61 nestlings for a 70% hatch rate (while 13 eggs did not hatch, two late nests of the first cycle have yet to hatch and one female had moved her nest twice due to possible cow interference); and 60 of those fledged (98% fledge rate!) Currently, the second cycle is now underway with 11 nests started in the last two weeks.

The sparrow pressure is not nearly as intense as it was earlier in the season. I keep 10 Van Ert insert traps at the ready. Earlier in the season, I would set as many as seven of them but yesterday, I used only three. HOSP maintenance can be manageable :-)

Five miles away, I have a 40-box woods trail. So far this year I've had two EABL, 3 CACH and 2 CAWR nests with a another EABL underway. I have not seen the first HOSP or EUST on this property. It's like another planet from the farm. :-)

Kenny Kleinpeter,
Baton Rouge, LA

It just goes to show that active HOSP management can allow for very successful native nesting even in the most HOSP prone areas. As a bluebirder, it should be very encouraging to know this.

In 1980, our village had a population of about 380 people. We moved here in
1986 when development was gearing up. Today, the population of our city is over 9,800. Most of the farm fields have disappeared and we are a city of postage stamp lots. About 8 years ago, the farm field behind our house turned into a subdivision. I saw EABL when we first moved here, but I see more here now. Even with suburban sprawl, they are doing well and choose to remain here. They continue to nest on my street because they have been very successful here with a little help from me. HOSP have not harmed any native nesters in the boxes on my street since I began active HOSP management about
7 years ago.

Paula Z
Powell (Central) Ohio

Hi

I have 5 boxes on my property. HOSP are around but not in large numbers. In one box I dumped 2 nests and it is not in use by any species. One box has had a successful fledging of 5 EABL and the parents are apparently back building a new nest in the cleaned out box. Another larger box has a Great Crested Flycatcher nest with 5 eggs! Another box has never been chosen for some reason.

In this section, one day a HOSP checked out all four boxes. He peaked into my EABL family box, but one parent nipped him on the butt and he took off.

House #5 in front. I have dumped 6 HOSP nests and about 10 eggs. I now leave the nest in the box and I took 4 eggs out replacing them with 4-5 painted beads that I bought in a craft store. This morning a HOSP was in the box with these "eggs". It is hoped that they will spend weeks or months on them with no hatchings. I witnessed a tragedy with Least Terns on a beach. They sat on eggs that died probably from too much human disturbance for close to 2 months (vs 3 weeks gestation ) before giving up.

The HOSP may nest over the beads and lay more eggs or treat them like eggs. Treating them like eggs could be expected after all fish bite lures that only vaguely look like the prey and birds attack their own images on glass. So maybe switching beads with eggs will draw HOSP and keep them busy for half to full nesting season.

I will report the results as they develop. Anyone else tried this or want to?

Ron
Brooksville, FL

From: RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com [mailto:RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com]
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: Passive HOSP control?Reply#2

I checked my 4 dummy eggs this morning and the female HOSP was in the box on them. She has not laid any new eggs. It appears the dummy eggs are working. I switched the eggs over 36 hours ago. I will send pictures of my "eggs" later and make a report to you and the other Bluebirders later next week.

Ron
Brooksville, Fl

I have read that some folks have used fake craft eggs (from an arts and crafts store) as replacements. I use a painted wooden egg to encourage my ducks to lay in one place instead of hiding or scattering their eggs. I think I heard that old time farmers used to use glass eggs.

Anyway, I’d be interested in hearing how well your beads work. Generally the female will continue to incubate for 2-4 weeks.

Some folks prick real eggs with a pin to keep them from hatching, but to keep the female HOSP occupied incubating them. You must break through the membrane that surrounds the egg white - a shallow prick is not sufficient to prevent hatching. Push a medium-size pin/needle or lance (used by diabetics to test blood - available at drug stores) into the large end of the egg. The hole should be small enough so that the contents will not run out and alert off the mother that the egg is pierced. Store the needle with the sharp point embedded in a cork. More info on rendering eggs infertile at http://www.sialis.org/hosp.htm#infertile.

Just as a sidenote, I’d put removal of eggs/rendering eggs infertile in the “active” control category, but certainly it is much easier, and more acceptable to more people than trapping and euthanizing HOSP. Totally passive methods include modifying nestbox location, type of nestbox, use of hole restrictors/reducers, monofilament, not feeding cheap bird seed, sparrow spookers and exclusion. Everything I’ve learned so far on active and passive control is at http://www.sialis.org/hosp.htm

Bet from CT

Hi Anne-Marie - a couple of comments:

Do you use a mesh laundry bag with a drawstring when removing trapped birds? That way you put it over the box and they fly into it. Might have been able to catch both that way.

This curiosity/rescue phenomenon makes me wish I had one of the nestbox traps that have a plexiglass divider with two holes (I think wildwing.co sells one?) because it's usually really hard to get BOTH the male and the female - once I trap one, the other usually takes off. Occasionally I have had luck putting the captured part of the pair in a ground trap with the nest and then the other goes in.

Secondly, chickadees here readily accept a box that is 5 feet high. Maybe not putting them higher is why I don't have many titmice nesting....? Anyway, as John said, HOSP prefer a high box over a low one SOMETIMES (but they WILL use both).

Bet

From: Blubabies"at"aol.com [mailto:Blubabies"at"aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 8:32 PM
Subject: To those who like passive HOSP control

I used to believe in passive HOSP control till this year. The sparrows have never bothered the bluebirds as they have had their own nest sites in the eves at my house and neighbors.

Well, this year, I have learned my lesson. An aggressive pair chased off my two year bluebird resident pair, and destroyed a chickadee and Carolina wren nest. The chickadee; nest was full of chickadee feathers and I can only hope she survived.

I got Vanert traps and destroyed the sparrows, a ground trap and I am very good with a pellet gun and the little varmints. They may not be in your bluebird box after you discourage them, but if they are nesting somewhere else. They are destroying other birds.

House sparrows have upset an ecosystem by there entry. Without helping other birds in the nesting process, we kill many other native species. One dead sparrow= survival of native many birds. Providing safe habitat is not just putting up a box. It is providing protection from ALL predators.

An interesting fact I learned at NABS last week: Bluebirds were as common as cardinals in the 1800s before the introduction of house sparrows and starlings.

Feel no guilt in killing them. If it is Biblical for you, remember the Bible was written before the house sparrows were brought to the US. He never put them here. He watches over them in England.

Debbie
Charlotte NC

From: Sharon Peregrine Johnson [mailto:sharonpj"at"swbell.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 11:21 PM
Subject: Re: HOSP

This has been a very strange summer. I changed the landscaping and added bushes around the border of our property, and luckily the HOSP have not bothered my boxes too much. At least, it has not been as bad as past years. I have only had the oportunity to catch and take care of one, and he was not easy to catch. It took much patience and almost a month for the right opportunity. However, the Blues had 5 beautiful babies, the Carolina Wren had 4 babies (thanks to the hole restrictor), the House Finch had 2 babies, and the barn swallows are starting on their second nesting. All were successful. Still hoping that the Blues will come back for a second nesting, but they have been checking out the neighbors. Luckily, the neighbors said I can monitor the box.

There are three PM couples in the PM house (one has babies, another has eggs, and the other I am not sure if there eggs or not). HOSP is keeping an eye on one of the nests (no visible eggs), and he has not added nesting material. I have tried to catch him, but the timing is not right. He may try one of the other boxes. I even placed a BB box 10 feet off the ground in the hopes that it would attract him. Time will tell, but I must be diligent and observant of his actions.

Sharon

From: David Middleton Edelen II [mailto:k98"at"bellsouth.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: New new nest in my new box!!

Hello Bet and all,
The nest has grown only a tiny bit, still dry grasses and a few pieces of cotton or what looks like some yarn. But I have not seen the sparrows go in, just sit nearby the box. So I am not sure it is them building it. Perhaps they are just hanging around trying to intimidate some bluebirds or something. Now that I think about it I have not seen a bluebird in some time. But then again I am on 2nd shift, from 2 to 10pm so I miss a lot out of life. I will try to watch more. I might even set up my camcorder on its tripod and leave it for a few hours.
Dave

From: Jody Jackson [mailto:jodyrn"at"bright.net]
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: HOSP in my nestbox?

Bet and all,

Thanks for all the support on the HOSP dilemma. I did indeed get him. He won't do anything like that ever again! I actually trapped 4 yesterday and my husband got another one today. I'm using an in- box trap now. But am in the market for a trap to put in the yard to catch many at a time.

Jody, Central Ohio

From: David Middleton Edelen II [mailto:k98"at"bellsouth.net]
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 7:39 PM
Subject: Guesse what I just saw?!!!?

Hey Y'all,
Guesse what I just saw?!? I went outside to peep around the corner at my new bb house on the privacy fence (I plan on putting it on a stick or pole). As usuall nothing. But just as I was about to turn away a male HOSP came out of the hole and fluttered to a spot about three feet away on the fence. As he was fluttering to that spot on the fence a male Bluebird came out of nowhere and dove on the sparrow, upsetting its flight. Then as the sparrow lit on the fence top the blue bird lit on the fence top about a foot and a half away, then instantly pounced on the house sparrow again! Then it fluttered back to its spot about a foot and a half away and the bb and hosp sat there stairing at each other for a few seconds. Finally the hosp flew away. The bb sat there a few moments longer, craning its beautiful neck looking this way and that, undoubtedly keeping an eye out for the sparrow and me both. Then it flew away.

What do you more experienced bluebird lovers think? It seems to me that the beginnings of a nest inside may be the bluebirds and the sparrows are harrassing it and trying to take over the box and drive the bbs away? Or do you think it is the other way around? What do y'all think? I do know that under the scant beginnings of a nest is a lot of little bittie white bird droppings.
This is so very interesting to me y'all. I am pretty sure I will get me a bb gun Friday when I get paid.

Any ideas or what have you are more than welcome!
The bb house in the rear yard has not been touched since I cleaned it out a week or so ago (I hope I did not throw some expectant bb mom's nest out!).
Take care,
Dave
Millbrook, Al..

I would set up another nestbox 15-20 ft away from the nestbox you have
now and lure the HOSP away and then trap him. The bluebird is in real
danger if he gets caught inside the nestbox by the male HOSP

Tom Long
Western Oregon

From: KCBSP"at"aol.com [mailto:KCBSP"at"aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 10:45 PM
Subject: Re: Guesse what I just saw?!!!?

Put up two boxes and if you can put traps in both. Watch to see which one the sparrow wants. Hang grass in the entrance hole after you set the trap. I like the Bolt trap alot cause you won't lose the sparrow when you try to remove them. I seem to see the sparrow chooses the one they want and sticks with that. When the boxes are closer in proximity the bluebirds sometimes defend all of them. The bluebirds here at Dale's house lost two clutches due to the HOSP... one within a day of hatching. They did not get the adult birds on the nest etc thankfully. I have trapped at least 5 more male HOSP that showed up. Now all seems calm for a tad..

If you see them attaching to a box trap them or at least try the line method some are using. It works for awhile anyway.

Kathy Clark, New Cumberland, PA

... If that HOSP is actually going in the box, he has
claimed it IMHO. If he enters the box and you have time to observe this,
you can make an end run on the box and quickly shove a small rag in the hole and trap him in there. I have captured many HOSP this way. You have to approach from behind the box so he won't see you if he peeks out. You can now carefully open box, blocking exit with other hand and grab him, or I prefer to put mesh laundry bag over box, cinch tight and open - no escapes this way. Another tip - look in the box for signs of roosting (i.e. HOSP droppings). If he is sleeping in there at night, it is very easy to catch him at night with same method.

A Van Ert inbox trap will serve you well too - essentially it is a better method but same philosophy of the rag in the hole.

Paula Z
Powell (Central) Ohio

From: David Middleton Edelen II [mailto:k98"at"bellsouth.net]
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: my box and my cam corder

Thanks Paula,
There is definately a lot of little white bird droppings on the
floor of the box. Does that mean he's roosting in it? ...
Thanks,
David Edelen

From: Trish Culpepper [mailto:trishkcully"at"earthlink.net]
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 2:46 PM
Subject: Female vs Male HOSP

Trish - Frankston, TX
I'm reading that male HOSP are pretty easy to recognize, but female HOSP look too much like other birds to often be sure. However, the article I read states to focus on getting rid of the male HOSPs and the females won't be a problem. Does that really make sense?

From: G McCall [mailto:gmccall"at"rochester.rr.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: Female vs Male HOSP

Yes, get rid of the male. Once he is gone the female will go elsewhere.

I have observed that if you trap the female, the male will become even more aggressive towards the Bluebirds. This is where the pellet gun comes in handy....

Gordon
Webster, NY

From: David Middleton Edelen II [mailto:k98"at"bellsouth.net]
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 2:18 PM
Subject: A great morning with my Bluebird!

Hello all,
I had a great morning y'all! Yesterday as I said earlier I went to the store and bought me a $19.00 Daisy BB gun from K-mart. Then went later to Walmart and bout me some more suet for my bird feeder and two more BB houses.
Well, being as I could not sleep I got out at 2:00am this morning and put the suet in place, and mounted my two new bb houses, one about 20 feet from the other in the front the HOSP has been hanging out at and running my bb off from, and the other at the other end of the house. I have not seen the bb in several days, just the Hosp sitting near it chirping constantly, so I thought if I might put up the extra houses the bb might come back. Oh how I wanted to sleep in. By the time I went to sleep it was 3:30 or 4:00am and I was tired. Well about 6:00am the constant repetitive chirping of the Hosp woke me up from a good sleep. I looked out my window (both houses are fabout 10 or so feet from my window), with a frown I am sure y'all can picture, and what do I see, the danged male hosp sitting about two feet from the bb house chirping constantly. And I mean constantly! I went and got my new bb gun and eased the window open (my kids tore up the screen), mumbling to myself, "I bet you stop your racket now you murderin' little rascal!" He did not even budge as I opened the window and took aim, just sat there, "Cheep, cheep, cheep, cheep!....Cheep, Cheep, Cheep., Cheep!" Well I don't know if I hit him or not but the cheeping ceased and he fluttered away sort of awkwardly.
I nodded back out, my window still open, to wake up a few minutes later with the gently chirp and squeeks and chips of a bluebird in my ears. I looked out and lo and behold there was the male bb, his blue back glistening a deeply, almost irridescent blue in the morning sun on top of the fence. God what a beautiful sight, what a beautiful bird! Well, I watched him for an hour or so. He would go first to one bb house, look in, then go in, and a few seconds later he would come back out and go back to his perch on top of the privacy fence between the houses, then a few minutes later he would go to the other one and do the same. But he would sit on the fence between them for 10 minutes or more, craning his little blue neck, as searching or keeping an eye out for something. Sometimes he would fly off but come back in a few minutes. Once he flew up to the point of my neighbor's home and just sat there watching everywhich away for about 10 minutes.
Well anyway, I am sorry for the long narrative and I am sure none of this is new to all of you experienced bb lovers, but I was excited that my bb had not been run off and had come back and I just had to share it. I wonder which bb house he will choose? Is that what he was doing y'all, deciding on one? He acted a might skittish when he was at the one the sparrow has been going it, harrassing him about, etc..
Take care,
David Edelen
Millbrook, Al.

...I am near Montgomery, Al., in Central Alabama, but I used to live in Athens, about 10 miles from Tenn line. We had HOSP everywhere, up on top of telephone poles, behind signs and sign letters on walls of or at businesses, bird houses, eaves of houses, sheds, etc., just like about everywhere else in the U.S. I've been to.

Dave, this is one narrative I enjoyed to the end. I have been concerned
about your bluebirds hoping the HOSP did not do them in before you got your
gun. You did a great job and just be on the look out and get them sooner if
more should appear. You are beginning to win the battle.

Evelyn

From: Nina Everett [mailto:NINAUT"at"CHARTER.NET]
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: A great morning with my Bluebird!

Dave,

I live in Hickory NC and I have never seen a HOSP. In fact I also have never seen a TRES.. The only birds here now are a few titmice, finches and a pair of Cardinals. No bluebirds in over a month. Three empty houses.

Nina

From: Jody Jackson [mailto:jodyrn"at"bright.net]
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: A great morning with my Bluebird!

Dave,
Nice letter. You are right that there is nothing more beautiful than a bluebird sitting on a nestbox with the sun shining on his back.
I'm glad you are now fighting the HOSP so that your bluebirds might be successful nesters.
Good luck.
This is a great list and you will get help and information here that is quick and accurate.
I learned almost all I know about bluebirds here.
Keep up the good work. Be persistent and don't be discouraged or give up.
Jody
Central Ohio

From: JB
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 3:07 PM
Subject: House sparrow inquiry

I'm writing about bluebirds in Fairfield County, Connecticut.

advice appreciated on this house sparrow dilemma:

We have two boxes about 30 or 40 feet apart from each other. In one box, I'm pleased to report, a bluebird nest with eggs. Unfortunately, due to a lapse in monitoring, we found the other box contained a nest of house sparrows, including nestlings. I'm familiar with the house sparrow issue and know that they must not be allowed to reproduce. So we 'hatched' a scheme to trap the entire family in the box by sealing the entryway at night when the family was in the box. (Not sure if both male & female spend the night in the box, but we figured we would at least catch the female.) We did some prep work on the box in the afternoon, attaching a piece of hard plastic that we could later swing over the entryway to seal it. Then, around 6 or 7 pm I came up to the box and sealed the entry. However, I noticed by the lack of sound from the box that the nestlings were gone. (Nor did we catch the parents in the box, no doubt due to it not being night.) Looking around the box, I noticed one dead nestling on the ground -- not sufficiently developed to indicate that the nestlings were old enough to leave on their own. the others were nowhere to be found. In a sense I was relieved not to have to "dispatch" the nestlings myself, but I was still perplexed by this outcome. My assumption was that our prep work on the box had spooked the house sparrows so that they kicked their own nestlings out of the box. We unsealed the box and now need to decide what to do. Hence my inquiry to you all.

Should we remove the entire house sparrow nest? Should we remove the second box entirely? Should we continue to monitor it and disable any HOSP eggs that may appear? Should we try to trap the male/female HOSP? What should we expect to happen vis-a-vis the bluebird nest -- which as of yesterday was intact with female sitting on the eggs? Is this a situation in which the adult male will seek to "retaliate" against the nearby bluebird nest?

Your thoughts and comments would be greatly appreciated.

JB

For future reference, it is possible to catch the female on the nest at night, when she is incubating or brooding. You need nothing more than a glove to stick in the hole if you sneak up quietly. I have had good success this way, removing her while it is still dark, then setting an in-box trap for the male. He comes to give the female a break at midmorning, and I have so far been successful at getting both of them.

Keep watch on the bluebird nest. You might even consider mounting another nestbox somewhere for the sparrows to take if they want to try another site.
Be prepared to trap them there. The use of feathers on the ground or even sticking out the hole may make the new nestbox irresistible to the male sparrow.

Kate Arnold
Paris, TX, 100 mi NE of Dallas

From: Megan Whitman [mailto:mlw57"at"cornell.edu]
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: A great morning with my Bluebird!

Greetings,

Just a reminder to those of you who dispatch HOSP to do so as quickly and humanely as possible.

Glad to hear you have bluebirds, David!

Cheers,

Megan Whitman
Project Assistant
The Birdhouse Network

Mike,

Too bad on the escaped Mr. HOSP. Bet is right in that they often will not be trapped with same trap a second time. They are rather intelligent for a bird and can become trap shy. For male HOSP's that have escaped with a Van Ert trap and become trap shy, I often have success switching to a Huber trap. If you watch for him to enter, sneak up on box quietly from behind and stuff a sock or small rag in there, you can accomplish the same thing.
If he is sleeping in there at night, you can catch him same way. For future trap use in this box, check to make sure it can spring shut properly. You could have it mounted askew or not covering hole properly when sprung.
Another thing to be careful of is to remove enough nesting material to make sure trap can spring shut properly. I leave top inch or so and throw the rest in the trash. Replace any eggs in there too so it looks familiar when they look in. Another problem I have in a couple of my boxes is the side vents are too large. For these boxes, when I set a trap, I plug up the side vents with a rag.

The male HOSP is definitely the one to get, but a bird in the hand is worth... well, actually a female HOSP will likely produce about 20 new HOSP this season if left to do her thing, so I dispatch every one I get my hands on. She is not as aggressive as the male, but I have witnessed a couple of adult bird deaths by female HOSP (walked up on box during "the deed").
Also, odds are 10 of those new HOSP she brings into the world this year will be males so save yourself some work next year.

I would not remove nest or eggs with TRES nesting close by. It could put them in danger. I would pierce eggs through to yoke with sharp pin and replace them on the nest. Sneak up from behind box and stuff a rag in the hole periodically and see if mom or dad are in there. Once you get the male, remove nest and pierced eggs.

Paula Z
Powell (Central) Ohio

From: RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com [mailto:RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 7:14 PM
Subject: Beads vs HOSP eggs(pictures)

Two weeks ago as an experiment I substituted some crudley painted beads for 4 HOSP eggs. The female stayed with them for only two days then abandoned the nest.

I surfed some Bluebird web sites and found that the idea of substituting fake eggs for real eggs can keep HOSPs busy for weeks with no offspring. Its been tried before and can work well.

Today, I took the 4 HOSP eggs (2 weeks old and presumed dead)and switched them with fresh HOSP eggs in another box with an active HOSP nest. I plan to keep rotating the dead HOSP eggs with live ones which become dead in a while and can be used on new HOSP nests.

This kind of passive control rotating eggs works OK if you only have a few boxes. Right now I have 9. With larger numbers of boxes, beads would provide a larger supply.

Here are two photos of my pathetic fake HOSP eggs next to a real HOSP egg. I need to add speckling and it may work from there. I bought the beads in a craft store, filled them in and painted white.

John, I just want to add some comments, adding to what Kate said. I definitely agree that it sounds like a predator (other than you!).
Here's my opinion on your questions:

> Should we remove the entire house sparrow nest?
Whenever you have HOSPs in the area of blues, the issue is that they're aggressive at all times. They try to take already occupied boxes. They will attack neighbors even when they have secured their own box. It's not a guarantee, but it's fairly common and something I try to avoid (by trapping and catching). So, I would do a bit of investigating. You actually have two problems, the HOSPs if they haven't left, and more than likely a predator. The predator may not come back, but the box you have is vulnerable. Consider some
possibilties: Hawks and other fowl come in by landing on the roof and preying downwards. Larger roofs can avoid this. Mice and squirrels may jump off a nearby limp or crawl up the pole. Definitely larger animals like racoons will crawl up the pole or possibly jump from a nearby tree. Some birds that aren't as large as a hawk may go after the eggs if they can manage a way a place to sit and can fit their head into the box. I would consider the box and the placement and then go from there. We definitely have some experts if you need more details.

> Should we remove the second box entirely?
I'd say probably not, unless you're unwilling to monitor it, and that doesn't seem to be the case! Besides, many many boxes get HOSPs some of the time and more desirable birds later, so I wouldn't give up on it yet.

> Should we continue to monitor it and disable any HOSP eggs that may appear?
If the HOSPs are definitely gone, as in no change for about 3 days, I'd empty it out. If they are still there, I'd strongly encourage you to do passive or aggressive control. That is, pierce eggs (passive) or trap/catch (aggressive). Trapping is the easiest with in box traps, catching is the easiest in the morning (before eggs) and at night (once incubation starts). As mentioned by Kate, if you sneak up on the box, you can catch a bird inside. Again, we can give you more details if you need them on exactly how to do that.

> Should we try to trap the male/female HOSP?
Please yes! If they're gone, however, and they might be, you may not have to.

> What should we expect to happen vis-a-vis the bluebird nest -- which
> as of yesterday was intact with female sitting on the eggs?
I'd say with HOSP in the area, I'd be concerned. Birds in the boxes are at the greatest risk. If a HOSP can catch them inside, they have very little chance of escaping alive. This is of course the most dangerous for an incubating female who is in the box a lot.

> Is this a situation in which the adult male will seek to "retaliate" against the nearby bluebird nest?
Possibly, but not necessarily. You can avoid that as much as possible by inticing (if you will) the HOSPs to continue staying in the box (if they haven't left) so that you can trap them. I should say, it can be difficult to trap both the male and the female. The more "committed"
they are to a box, however, the more likely the second won't bail even if you kill one.

Good luck!

Kathy Haines
Central Ohio

PS - The score with us and the HOSPs this season is about 50:8, killed vs. escaped

From: David Middleton Edelen II [mailto:k98"at"bellsouth.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 12:31 PM
Subject: Another bb nest and hosp are back!!

Hello all,
I moniter all four of my bb houses and all have remained empty for some time now except #2 which has a new nest in it recently built. BB house # 1 is in the back yard at far edge. Nos 2 and 3 are at one side of my house, abt 20' apart and facing front yard. No 4 is on opposite end of house facing front yard. Now they have all been empty for sometime now other than # 2.
I just rechecked them all: I checked # 4 first and it was empty other than two huge cock-roaches, the bane of Alabamians. I then went back to # 1 in the back yard and lo and behold a new bb nest is in it, only maybe half finished. They must have built it in just the last day or so, or even today! I then went back out front and around the house to # 2 and 3. What do I see, but a pair of hosp sitting on the fence. They flew off at site of me. In # 3 was the beginnings of a hosp nest; hard, coure grass with even a tiny bit of roots. In # 2 was the BB nest built here recently and apparently finished. I got my wife's compact mirror and looked down into the nest. Nothing so far.

Now my questiion is this: Is the new nest in the back yard box a seperate set of BBs or could the ones who built the nest in box # 2 have moved to get away frm the hosp and rebuilt in box # 1?
Also, if the first pair of bbs in box # 2 stay there will the hosp nesting in bx 3 20 feet away be a threat to them?
I wish I knew more aboiut all this and I definatly don't won't anything to happen to or drive off my BBs!
David Edelen
Millbrook, Alabama

From: Lana Hunt [mailto:lanahunt"at"kcp.uky.edu]
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: Another bb nest and hosp are back!!

David, Yes the HOSP are a definite threat to your bluebirds. Since you know where they are nesting it would be a good time to set a trap for them on the ground baited with some food. The only good HOSP is a dispatched HOSP. You can find information on the Cornell site on how to do this. Your blues may probably try to find nests elsewhere if the HOSP stay around and for their own good. Many bluebirds have fell victim to these horrible birds who will kill them and build a nest on top of the bodies. Lana

From: David Middleton Edelen II [mailto:k98"at"bellsouth.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 1:06 PM
Subject: HOSP !! Villains!!

Hello again,
I noticed just now the hosp trying to go into the box with the BB nest. So now it is my guesse that they drove out my BBs and they went to the back yard box to try to start over with their nest.
HOSP are nothing but villains!
Dave

From: SHERRY KANARAS [mailto:basketcasesherry"at"verizon.net]
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 4:02 PM
Subject: HOSP disaster!

I have a nesting EABB pair that had two eggs laid this week, and they have been fighting off a HOSP. I have NAILED the male3 times w/a borrowed bb gun, not powerful enought to kill it unfortunately. The last time was from 4 feet away! I thought that would do it, but today I came home from my son's graduation to spot both HOSP at the box, and before I could get there the male threw out both eggs, and of course they broke. This has never happened, I don't know what to do. The EABB are sitting there looking confused. Should I wash away the remains of the eggs?? Will they know the HOSP did this?? I don't want them to think I did it. This pair is very tame, the female will take worms from my open hand. I am crying like a baby while typing this--any advice would be SO appreciated. I can not sit and monitor the box 24/7, I work! Thanks,
Sherry Kanaras
Perryville, MD
Cecil County

From: Laura Wehrwein [mailto:buggz_co"at"yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: HOSP disaster!
Hi, Sherry. I am so sorry this happened. It's heartbreaking when things like this occur. At least the EABB pair is still safe and sound. It sounds like the HOSPs are intent on moving into the nestbox. I would strongly recommend buying a Van Ert trap if you don't already have one. Once you know the HOSP are using the box and you have installed the trap (my favorite time is early morning), you should be able to catch the bird(s) within an hour. (In any case, make sure you check the nestbox at least once per hour in case a native bird is trapped.) For me, the Van Ert trap works well, as it gives me a quick and easy way to catch the sparrow and humanely dispatch it.

Do you have another box set up in your yard? If you have enough room in your yard, an additional nestbox will give the bluebirds a chance to start another nest while you work on the sparrows. Some people have a nestbox in their yards soley dedicated to trapping HOSPs.

Continue to offer mealworms to the bluebirds.
Hopefully they won't move on, and hopefully you'll be able to catch the HOSP soon so that the blues have a better chance at a safe and successful nesting.

Best wishes, Sherry!

Laura Wehrwein
Peyton, CO

From: Autumn L. Kruer [mailto:autumnk"at"iglou.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 1:07 AM
Subject: RE: HOSP disaster!

Oh, Sherry, I’m so sorry. The HOSP will probably take over the box unless you get rid of them.

I work from home but I still worry continuously that some sneaky HOSP will fly into the ready-to-fledge TRES box or the newer nestlings of the BB box when I’m not looking.

I know I sound like a redneck, but get a shotgun. I use a 16 gauge and it hasn’t failed me yet.

Autumn

Sherry,

Sorry about the HOSP. I doubt you actually hit him with the bb's before.
If I actually contact a HOSP with a bb, it is quickly gone. I often miss, however. The mere sound of the gun scares them off. You may want to do a little target shooting and pump up the gun more to get more velocity from your bb.

I would recommend setting out another empty box about 20 feet from your EABL box. If the HOSP show interest in this box, you could trap them with an inbox trap.

You should clean up the broken eggs outside the box and wash away as best you can. Otherwise, the eggs may bring predator interest to the box. Mom EABL still has probably another 3 eggs in her to lay. They may abandon their box after this trauma, but if they stay, she will most likely lay another egg tomorrow so the quicker you can eliminate Mr. HOSP, the better.

Again, I'm really sorry. There is also danger that the HOSP can corner the female EABL in the box while she is laying her eggs. He's armed and dangerous, but so are you.

Paula Z
Powell (Central) Ohio

Sherry, this is very sad.  At least the HOSP didn’t kill the adults, which is not uncommon.

If you put up a sparrow spooker as soon as the female lays the first egg, it will prevent HOSP attacks 24/7.  http://www.sialis.org/sparrowspooker.htm
They are easy to make yourself and extremely effective.

Now that the HOSP have claimed the box, you will have to remove them.  As Laura suggested, the Van Ert trap is very useful.  If your local birding store doesn’t sell them (not many do unfortunately) see http://www.sialis.org/bluebirdstore.htm#traps
for places you can order online.  In the meantime, instructions for DIY inbox traps are at http://www.sialis.org/hosp.htm#diy
along with detailed instructions on how to trap.  If you do it quickly (important to get the male) the bluebirds may return to the box.

Do remove the remains of the eggs and any wet nesting material.

Bet from CT

We have this information (all of it) almost on a daily basis on this List.

People read about it but don’t seem to realize they MUST DO SOMETHING or
they will have terrible results. I cringe when I keep reading that the HOSP
is still around and nothing has been done.

I know from my own experience when I had to learn the hard way about
stopping snakes before the "light bulb went off" in my head.

If you've got HOSP's or Starlings, do it now, trap them and get rid of them.

Evelyn Cooper

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
I would make sure that there are a couple more nestboxes on the other side
of the house where the bluebirds can move to try nesting again. Join your
state bluebird society and see if any members are near you so you can borrow
or buy a nestbox trap to rid your yard of the House Sparrows.

The bluebirds will know that the house sparrows broke the eggs and washing
away the evidence probably won't make any difference. They will simply move
to another location and should begin laying eggs again within 10>21 days.

Gordon
Webster, NY

From: MPD [mailto:imajefarm"at"hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: HOSP disaster! :(

I use a 22 with birdshot and a scope. The scope is well worth the price, and if you're at all fuzzy in the eyes it makes it way more accurate. NOTE: I said BIRDSHOT-- that doesn't go very far-- but if you use a regular 22 shell you can take out somebody a couple miles away! Also I use an on-the-ground repeating trap with bakery bread, cheese puffs or cheese corn and fast-food french-fries as bait. I also in-box traps. I've dispatched 39 HOSP and 11 EUST to date this season, and my 5 babies are so far so good.
Yes, we hear this every day... but people new to bluebirds continually come into the "circle" and need to be told anew.
Last year at this time I saw a male bluebird and a little brown bird "playing" rolling around on the ground-- that's now naive and dumb I was!!
So keep telling the newcomers and one by one we'll help bluebirds.
Mavis

Evelyn Cooper
Delhi, LA

From: MPD [mailto:imajefarm"at"hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: HOSP disaster! :(

Hi Ron and all: REALLY-- ONLY THE FIRST ONE WAS HARD-- for about 1 second. Screwing up my courage to kill the first one in the ground trap was the worst, but like I said, once I just did it, it was nothing... I can wrench their little necks now and eat my lunch at the same time. It's no big deal. You can compare it to how you feel when you swat a mosquito; it's that not-a-big-deal. But if HOSP kill (and they will), your beloved bluebirds-- that's a far far bigger deal. Just do it. (I'm not a blood-thirsty heartless beastie in any other area of life, just so you know-- but in the war of HOSP vs EABB, I am.)
Mavis

From: David Middleton Edelen II [mailto:k98"at"bellsouth.net]
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 12:11 AM
Subject: there back?!?

Hello all,
I hate to keep bothering y'all. But I had said that th sparrows had seemed to have run off my bbs. Today they pair of BBs were back at the front house and going in and out, etc.. Just wanted to let y'all know. I am glad the BBs weren't run completely off.
Take care,
Dave

Mavis wrote: Last year at this time I saw a male bluebird and a little brown bird "playing" rolling around on the ground-- that's now naive and dumb I was!!

Egads, I had that going on with my male tree swallow last year in front of their box. I knew it was serious business then and that darn HOSP was not going to give up. They’d fight and roll, and the little male TRES would hop on top of the box, then the HOSP try to take it, and then fight and roll again. I knew the TRES was running out of time and as panicked as I was, I got the shotgun and waited until the TRES flew up on the box again and that nasty little HOSP stood in the driveway tormenting the TRES with his tinny “CHEAP CHEAP.” A good, clean shot, and I fired. And the freakin’ HOSP flew up into a small maple tree in front of my house. Becoming like a birding version of Caddyshack, I walked to the base of the tree and looked up and shouted, “You little #?"at"#$%"at"# - I’ll get you yet!” At which time his dead body dropped from the tree at my feet. First time in my life I’d ever used a gun to kill something, and have dispatched of 2 more HOSP in the same fashion since.

When people tell me birding is boring, I just look at them and grin . . .

Autumn

What we would really like to hear is do you have the HOSP situation under control by either aggressive or passive control? If you don't, this back and forth with the Bluebirds and HOSP's will continue until one wins and it is usually the HOSP. That is really what concerns us.

Did you get rid of the male HOSP? That is the one you must manage to get away from your boxes or you will continue to have problems. I've tried to keep up with this, but cannot remember if you said you did get rid of them.

Evelyn Cooper
Delhi, LA

From: roy pischer [mailto:tlp4456"at"msn.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: HOSP disaster! :(

Hello all, I am new to the list serve, and joined because even after three years of bluebirding, I still consider myself a newbie... So much to learn, and of course the first thing all birders learn is the dreaded HOSP lesson. Before I share my experience with you, here is info a lot of newbies will want to come back to:

Van Ert Enterprises
39755 Highway 92
Carson, Iowa 51325-4275
Phone: 712 484-3479
http://www.vanerttraps.com/urban.htm
Complete Nest Box w/ Trap installed - $21.95 + $7 shipping for one trap & $3 for each additional trap

I want to share our experience with all of you, but especially the newbies who just can't bare to pinch HOSPs little necks off. Three years ago, my husband and I moved to beautiful 50 acre farm with some wooded area as well as flat, open pasture that the bluebirds, barn swallows and purple martins love so much. In our ignorance, the first year, we allowed a pair of HOSPs to nest in one of the blue bird boxes on the electric pole outside our kitchen door… What a mistake!

The next summer, we were dismayed to see all the bluebird boxes filled with house sparrow nests, and the bluebirds just seemed to disappear. After much investigation using the web, other birders, conservation department and reading; and after much deliberation, we came to the same conclusion that many birders have. Rather than passive control of the HOSPs - so they become someone else’s problem - we trapped them and destroyed them. We were diligent last summer, and we trapped and killed 8 house sparrows, 5 males and 3 females, with a Van Ert trap, see info above. I can’t say that it was an enjoyable experience, however, all you need is one Van Ert traps, a pair of needle nose pliers, a clear garbage and a strong resolve and stomach. Keep reminding yourself that these are non-native birds, They will invade and destroy the eggs and KILL baby and adult bluebirds, purple martins, titmice, chickadees, small woodpeckers and other native cavity dwelling birds.

Last summer, in addition to trapping the HOSPs, we plugged holes in our horse barn, put wire around all the eaves and tore down house sparrow nest after nest after nest. We didn’t have any blue birds at our farm, however, in my walks to the woods, I always saw one little pair of blue birds. I knew they must have found a natural cavity. Later in the summer, I saw the adult pair teaching a group of fledglings how to hunt bugs from the barb wire fence. I bought a meal worm feeder (the kind with the plexiglass sides and holes on both ends) and I fed meal worms all winter to those little bluebirds.

This spring, we did trap and destroy two male house sparrows and one female, but the house sparrow population was in obvious decline! And even though I see the occasional house sparrow, none have tried to take over the blue bird boxes.

While I continued to feed the mealworms this spring, I noticed a pair of bluebirds inspecting a nest box off down the lane. In mid April, I counted 5 eggs in their box! About that same time, a little pair of blue birds nested in the box in my back yard! Both pair of have successfully fledged three baby bluebirds each. Then "lane" bluebirds have started their second brood, with 5 more eggs in the nest. The "backyard" pair, have just started relining their nest, but all continue to come to the mealworm feeder and have taught their babies to come to the feeder.

Some people will say that it’s best to leave nature alone, let the bluebirds fend for themselves, "survival of the fittest," and all that. On a fair playing field, I agree, but the non-native and aggressive birds like HOSPs and starlings will compete, and kill native species to win their nest boxes. Like many birders, I say the only good HOSP is a dead one. Again, one Van Ert HOSP trap, a clear garbage bag, a pair of needle nose pliers and a strong resolve and strong stomach helped us to bring bluebirds back to our farm. Mr. Van Ert even shipped my traps the same day I placed the order. We have even started a bluebird trail this year, and will add more nestboxes next year!

Trudy Pischer
...
Willard, MO 65781

In my Bluebird house, a pair of EABL built a nest and have 3 babies! In the
other house a pair of HOSP built a nest, too. I'd like to remove their nest,
but I don't know if they will destroy the EABL babies, nest, etc. If this
has happened to anyone else, please tell me what I should do with the HOSP.
They are a pain to have around.

Peggy (Western NY)

I have had this happen numerous times, and I generally leave the sparrows alone until the bluebirds fledge. I then trap the female incubating on the nest at night, (just stuffing a glove in the hole) setting a trap for the male as soon as I remove the female. He comes in the morning to give her a break, and you catch him. They are very dedicated to the nestbox when they have eggs in there, so it is easier to trap them, in my opinion. That is one of my reasons for having several nestboxes in my yard, giving the house sparrows a nestbox to occupy while the bluebirds finish raising their young.

Some people have used dummy eggs, egg-pricking and other means to keep the sparrows occupied. In my early bluebirding days I just removed the nest and suffered no problems, but now I prefer to not take any chances.

Kate Arnold
Paris, TX, 100 mi NE of Dallas

From: paradocs2 [mailto:paradocs2"at"adelphia.net]
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 9:34 PM
Subject: 8 dead babies, time to get the HOSP

The first brood of 5 baby BB's was attacked and a combination of running to the box and monofilament finally discouraged the male HOSP and the 3 remaining juvenile BB's fledged (THANK YOU KEITH KRIDLER for taking my call and answering MY distress call !!!). The second brood of 6 was doing well until I came home one day and saw 6 of the just hatched babies on the ground (already long gone). I spent the best $400 of my life on a Gamo CFX airgun and took out the HOSP in one shot. Bring on the HOSP!
Steven Klein
Middletown, MD 21769

Steven,

Forgive this question from a newbie, but can you tell me more about airguns and/or recommend a site where I can get information? Would it be something a really bad shot could use in a suburban area without taking out a neighbor?

BTW, very sorry about your losses. I have yet to put up a birdhouse, but after what I have learned researching I am all about active control of HOSP and EUST.

Thanks,Maureen

From: David Middleton Edelen II [mailto:k98"at"bellsouth.net]
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 9:20 AM
Subject: Finally; an egg!!

Hello all,
I checked my boxes yesterday. I was so excited. Finally an egg. Just one single blue egg was in box # 2. A new nest has been built in box # 1 but nothing so far.
I watched out of the window for a while this morning and watched as the male and female bluebird sat here and there, flitted here and there, apparently watching and checking things. The male went into box # 3 one time. That is where the beginnings of a HOSP nest is. But ever since I shot at the hosp with my bb gun three or so days ago I have not see them. I don't know if I hit it or not.
The female would fly up to the box with her nest and the egg and flutter at the entrance, hang on a moment or two, look inside, and then flitter off to sit on the fence a few feet away. Then she would just sit and look around. Perhaps they saw me in the window and were nervous. Her box is only about 6' from the window.
Anyway, I hear them outside now. Once you learn their soft little delicate call and/or chirps you can't miss it. So I reckon I will back off for a few days other than watch for the House Sparrows and let mama and daddy do there thing. Perhaps in three or four days there will be more eggs.
Hey Evelyn, you were asking me if I got rid of the HOSP or not. I have shot at the little boogers with my bb gun I know 15 times. It is a cheap and inaccruate bb gun to say the least. But I do think I hit one female and one male at different times. I am not sure, they sort of flew off funny like fluttering around as they flew. I know a whole new family of HOSPs have hatched next door because they came to me bird feeder several times. The baby HOSP would sit on a nearby limb and the parents would get food from the feeder and then go up and feed the babies on the limb. I have not seen them lately, only a single HOSP here and there. Maybe it is one fo the baby HOSPs all grown up now and fending for themselves.
Take care,
David Edelen
Millbrook, Al.

From: John Schuster [mailto:wildwingco"at"earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 11:16 AM
Subject: House Sparrows, it takes aggressive dedication to control their population

Dear Steve, Maureen and friends,

Go to our web site where we've long had a page dedicated to;

European Starlings: Population Control Methods: http://home.earthlink.net/~wildwingco/id10.html.

Much of what is listed on this page for taking out European Starlings with bait stations and air rifles will work for House Sparrows too. If anything it's an interesting read, but I believe firmly that all year round pest management, and all methods of take is the answer when dealing with vermin.

I suggest that you study the pest bird that you desire to remove from your area. Know it's nesting habits (both of the above pest birds like to nest up high out of human reach in the eves of building, or in holes in lamp poles etc. and House Sparrows like to nest in bushes around your home too.) Learn to use traps, baited areas and the safe use of air rifles or firearms.

To illustrate how aggressive you should be, think of the above population control methods as trying to draw water from a well with a hand pump. Now stick with me folks as I'll be making my point shortly.

Operating a hand pump takes allot of pumping to get the water up from a well. You pump and pump knowing that if you stop pumping, the water will flow back down into the well. However, if you keep aggressively pumping eventually the water will flow out of the hand pump. Now that the water is flowing out of the hand pump, it's easier to make the water flow requiring less pumping and less effort on your part.

Same thing goes when knocking off the aforementioned vermin. The above population control methods takes aggressive dedication and effort, but by using both eradication methods all year long, you will eventually bring your House Sparrow challenges down to manageable levels, so like water flowing out of a hand pump, your House Sparrows will be easier to deal with, requiring less effort on your part and your local native cavity nesters will return to nest again unmolested.

Here at Field Vineyards in Cotati CA, I've trapped loads of House Sparrows each year, and shot more male House Sparrows than I can remember. This year I only trapped 2 male House Sparrows and I haven't had to shoot any (knock on wood) this year because there are not enough of them to bother with. ...

John Schuster

I truly believe that some of the actions I have taken as a monitor in my early years have triggered HOSP "rampages". I also know of quite a few times (especially this spring with TRES deaths), before I have had a chance to intervene in any fashion, a HOSP has attacked and killed a native bird. Even if I do not mess with them, they (very) often mess with other birds. My methods today include active control with inbox trapping for the most part. I view a HOSP on the trail like a farmer would view a weasel in the chicken coop.

I believe HOSP "rampages" are triggered when we take action that could be attributable to other birds. This is my opinion and my experience and is most likely anthropomorphizing, but it is what I have deduced. One of the most dangerous things you can do (in my experience) is remove a HOSP nest before capturing the male. Another big "no no" (in my experience) is removing all the HOSP eggs you find in its nest before catching the male. I also believe that some of the deaths of adult native nesters that I find that have not been provoked by me, have been provoked possibly by the birds themselves. Did my dead TRES take a peek in Mr. HOSP box, return to his, and get cornered for example?

Monitoring actions I have taken that have not resulted in "rampages" include piercing HOSP eggs and trapping and removing either male or female HOSP. If I capture a male HOSP and he does not have a female yet, then I can safely remove his nest. If I capture a male HOSP and he has a female, I will try to get her (almost always do if she has eggs). When attempting to capture the female after the male, I will generally let the trap remain in the box for a few hours with periodic monitoring. If I haven't captured her in that time, I remove the trap and can safely remove nest and eggs because she generally abandons the box if she knows her man is gone. If I capture the female first, I will leave nesting material and eggs intact in the box until I get the male. I do not want him to attribute the removal of either to a nearby native bird. Also if his nest remains intact, he will have a vested interest in this box and is more likely to remain there.

I am currently dealing with a very wary male HOSP. The trail is in a park setting so only inbox trapping is feasible. Mr. HOSP refuses to be trapped with an inbox trap, but his first two wives were not so lucky. He is in the process of looking for Wife #3 and remains with "his" box. It is a paired location with TRES nesting 13 feet away. This is a precarious situation, and I'll let you all know if he does go on a "rampage", but so far he has not. His nest is intact and I doubt he would attribute (again, me
anthropomorphizing) the loss of his mate to the TRES nesting nearby. I have yet to have a male HOSP attack another native nester after removing the female AS LONG AS I leave his nest alone.

Paula Z
Powell (Central) Ohio

[Part of this thread on guns posted under HOSP - Guns.]

Thanks for the disagreement, Paula! I appreciate your sharing your experience.

In my limited experience, HOSP know when their egg is infertile -- for us, addling/chilling eggs has not worked in killing the embryo -- seems she lays more and eventually gives up -- I am afraid addling/chilling "causes" "rampage." Your impression is that piercing does *not*. Good info, thanks!

Given piercing as a reproductive strategy for HOWR, it seems odd that HOSP would not respond to piercing as bird interference, whether caused by bird or not. However, HOWR and HOSP have had only 150 years together, an eyeblink in evolutionary terms.

I'm also surprised to see that removing female but leaving nest intact does not, in your experience, "cause" "rampage." That's really interesting!!! That means we can remove the female (fish in a barrel) and thus interrupt the nesting without being likely to cause "rampage." If that is found to be so, that could really change our strategy here. Aside from the danger of leaving any HOSP male alive, there would be no particular urgency to trapping the male after dispatching his mate. And the eggs would certainly fail, yes...? We could keep a male HOSP busy all season doing this....?

With regard to the idea of stubborn males, we have an idea that we have not yet been able to try so far: play a tape of a bluebird call and pipe it (via earbuds) into the box with the trap in it, as a way to entice the male into the box.

This was the idea (without the earbuds) of one of the volunteers on the Oregon Ridge Park trail, and I tried it with tape player at base of trap box -- male HOSP was clearly and highly intrigued, but didn't go *in* the box. I want to try it using earbuds to make the sound come out of the box and see if he'll go in, but so far haven't had opportunity (it's a *good* thing) :o) . My volunteer provided the tape to me, but there's bluebird song here:

http://www.seal-pa.org/admin/sasd/bb/bluebird.html

Our rehabber is aghast at the idea, saying it is bad form to play any bird's song during nesting season. My feeling is that's apples and oranges. We're trying to interfere with a non-native, non-protected species, and the disruptive consequences to natives of not killing the male HOSP are much more dire than any interruption of native nesting behavior that we would cause.... Yes?

If anyone wants to try it would appreciate knowing if it works.

Paul Kilduff
Baltimore

From: Blubabies"at"aol.com [mailto:Blubabies"at"aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: HOSP "Rampages"

Paula and all--

I have to tell you a funny story of how I caught the resistant male. I used wonderful Vanert trap, caught the female. In order to use the trap, I had to take part of the nest because it was so large, left the egg. She was easily caught. After, the male just looked in and wouldn't go in the box. Maybe he sensed the changes.

Two hours passed, Mrs. Sparrow had since frozen solid in the freezer. By chance, she nicely froze with her head up, eyes open and legs straight. I told my family, you got to think like a bird, he is looking for her.

I propped her little frozen body standing up in the back of the box, within 15 minutes, here he came, looked in the box and seeing his mate, in he went. He joined her in the freezer.

One other funny way to outwit the weasels.

Debbie
NC

Linda, since you say you've had "no" rampages, maybe that is why you cannot
understand aggressive control (or at least it seems that way). Surely you
have seen death and destruction by HOSP's.

I do favor aggressive control, but I certainly don't think we should be
glorifying in gory details on the List.

I think taking them to raptors or giving them a dignified burial under a
rose bush like Maynard suggested is proper.

Evelyn Cooper
Delhi, LA

Roy, et al,
I would just as readily "eliminate" a House Sparrow as I
would a mosquito, a rat, a woodchuck, or a cockroach.
People's decisions about what they will kill and what they
will *not* kill are anything but rational.
Some people routinely *pay* other people (called
exterminators) to do their killing for them.

Bruce Burdett, SW NH

I can't claim that my behavior is rational regarding the HOSP, nor that I won't change it in the future. So far the egg control is working, and it's keeping the HOSP occupied and preventing them from reproducing. We're lucky to live in a rural area with a lot of land and not many houses, so the HOSP population is relatively low versus native birds around our place, and so far there has been no evidence of any aggression, but I realize that can turn on a dime. That's one reason I asked originally about how long I can check on the bluebird nestlings -- I want to make sure they haven't been attacked.

It's interesting that someone mentioned chilling HOSP eggs didn't work for them. On the first round of eggs that I chilled, the birds clearly did realize they'd been tampered with, because they disposed of them and and laid more. But I tried again, and interestingly no problems since then. The female is currently "incubating" three eggs rendered infertile by chilling.
So we'll see what happens.

I worked in the wildlife rehab field for a while, and that's probably part of my problem -- some rehabbers refuse to deal with nonnative species while others will help any bird they get. My training was with people of the latter frame of mind.

I logically understand that from an ecological point of view, it would be ideal to dispatch the HOSP outright. However, it doesn't help to think of it as just pest control -- I feel sad even when I kill pests -- roaches, mice, mosquitoes, and the like -- even knowing that my actions are necessary.

However, I am fully prepared to start more active methods if I find it necessary to do so. If this does occur, I plan to donate the bodies to a rehab facility to feed to injured or educational raptors.

Thanks again for your insights and for the Van Ert info. I'll look into those traps if that becomes necessary.

Miriam Lawrence
Monkton, VT

Problems with house sparrows on the bluebird trail (Part 12)

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