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Flycatchers (Great Crested & Ash-Thoated) in nestboxesDate: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 14:20:49 -0400 Is anyone having repeat or multiple crested flycatcher nests? If so, would you please write what you believe to be the key to your success? i.e.. box placement Would greatly appreciate this. Gary Springer PS There might not be any snakes in Alaska and Maine. Does anyone know for sure? Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 07:51:58 EDT ...I have had GCF nest in a bb box sevral yeas in a row. Nice bird, the total opposite of a bb. Secretive, watching from a position away from the nest until she is dead sure no one is watching, then darting in to feed the babies, quickly and quietly. you have to watch closely if you are to see any action. Different, but a neat bird, and another great mother. I have never seen the male. Phil Berry
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 12:31:35 -0700 Wendy Guglieri From: Dusty Bleher dusty"at"fsinc.com A few days ago I had a female Ash-Throated Fkycatcher banded by Hatch Graham, and we were discussing putting up a second nestbox for use by WEstern BLuebirds, as it is a very good nesting site. If I'm not mistaken, the rule that holds for pairing boxes for Bluebirds and Swallows holds true with ATFLs, too - 7 to 15 feet. They apparently nest quite readily near WEBLs without problems. wg
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 20:04:32 EDT I have ATFL and I am thinking about placing a cover over the larger hole box that are 12 feet apart so the MOBL will nest in the 1 9/16 hole box. Didn't get around to it this year but will next year. The ATFL nest much later in the season here in Colorado and they sometimes nest on top of MOBL. Has any one ever done this for competitive nesters? Bob Wilson...
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 14:05:45 EDT This is the first year I have tried pairing to make room for Ash Throated Flycatcher who have been build nest on top of Mountain Bluebird nests, eggs and young. I think that I made a mistake by not closing the opening until the Ash Throated Flycatcher returned to the area. The MOBL have taken the boxes with the larger holes 1 3/4" rather than the ones with the 1 9/16" hole. The Ash Throated Flycatcher have started building on top the empty nest or ones that the chicks already fledged. I have chicks in the nest and they are at least 21 days old. I think that a killer frost may have reduced the food supply and they did not have the strength to fledge. Any comments? Would it be wise to cover the larger opening until I see them return? Bob Wilson ...
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 08:46:34 -0400 Lake Ontario snowbelt, 40 miles north of Syracuse,
NY
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 08:52:38 EDT i had a GCF nest in a bb box a few years ago.
while not gragarious like bb's, these are magnificent creatures. silent, for
the most part, mysterious birds. she will put a snake skin in the nest if
she can find one. she will never sit on the box while eggs/babies are in
the nest, but perch away from the nest and watch until the coast is clear,
then fly in at a fast clip, feed the kids, and leave in a hurry. you are
indeed fortunate to have her choose your box.
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 07:52:22 -0700 Bill and Dot, if you do build a special box in the
hopes of attracting the flycatcher, keep in mind that my chicks in a box with
a 1 9/16" were not safe from starlings last year. Even though the starlings
didn't enter the box, their beaks reached the nestlings. The boxes I used last
year (susceptible to starlings) were about 7.5" to 8" from hole to
floor and this depth kept some nestlings out of the starling's reach. But I'm no
longer happy with the shallow 7.5" hole-to-floor depth after that scrub jay
nipped a full box of 6 nestlings to death. All future bluebird boxes on my trail
will have a 8" minimum. I don't know the box depth which flycatcher
fledglings can fledge. If they can't easily fledge from a 8" hole to floor
depth straight up, maybe you could slant the box front . . . similar to a
Peterson box.
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 08:46:15 -0500 ... I have used a 1&9/16" entrance hole on my nestboxes for the last 14 years or so and NEVER have had this fly catcher use one of these nestboxes! Jack Finch from Bailey N.C. has built over 70,000 "bluebird" boxes in this same time frame using the 1&9/16" round hole and very few nestings ever show up on the NABS report forms & most of these are in boxes with the hole enlarged by squirrels or woodpeckers. The Peterson Oval hole is equal in square inches to about a 1&7/8"
round hole and I don't recall anyone reporting a Great Crested Flycatcher using
a hole like this that is only 1&3/8" wide. This bird maybe larger than
the European Starling as they are frequent nesters in boxes here with a
1&3/4" round entrance hole. They prefer to nest higher off the ground
(mine last year nested over 40' high with a 3" natural cavity entrance
hole, the cavity
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 12:46:40 EDT Shawna B. NW. NJ. Zone6 Good Day all, The Great Crested Flycatcher's that are nested here, nested in my Woodpecker Box, It is a large box 10x16 with a 2" opening it is 20ft high, and the 4 babies are 11 days old today, These birds are VERY secretive and I had almost thought they had abandon the nest, but 2 days later I saw them removing egg shells and bringing in bugs, I never really saw her incubating. At 8 days they where feeding Dragon Fly's, I thought to myself how in the world are those little chicks going to eat those big bugs? But they did with NO PROBLEM (LOL).
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 10:35:07 -0700 Need help identifying this bird! I looked in my Audubon Society Field Guide to North American Birds, and this bird isn't listed. There is a Wied's Crested, described as Kingbird sized; olive brown above, two wing bars. I have seen Black Phoebes at my bird bath here in Sonoma Valley, but would love to know about the Great Crested. Barbara
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 14:15:14 -0700 Barbara You can most likely find the Great Crested Flycatcher on the Internet, but you won't find him at your bird bath. They do not occur in the Western U.S. Wendy Guglieri
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 07:22:29 -0600 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas 63*F & showers Bob Wilson mentioned covering the nestboxes in Colorado to prevent Ash Throated Flycatchers from "taking over." Please go into more detail about distance between the boxes, when this problem occurs time wise and what the boxes are covered with. Is there a size and type of box the Ash Throated prefer over your 36 square inch (6"x6") floor bluebird boxes? Does habitat or availability of tall objects to perch on to hunt for food make a difference. I recall Rob Yakovich (SP) in New Mexico also has this problem. Raccoon! Did anyone catch the segment on Fox news last night about the raccoon that weighed 65 pounds! A house pet turned bear sized! KK
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 06:54:02 -0700 Keith and all other interested in covering hole to keep Ash Throated Flycatchers separated. The problem is that some of the first boxes I made have larger hole 1 3/4". I have now paired these with PVC boxes placed 12-15' apart on fence line. I want the MOBL to use the 1 9/16" hole boxes so I place a wood block over the hole that has the larger size opening. The ASFL do not nest until after the MOBL have laid their eggs and most have hatched. ASFL only have one clutch a year and usually fledge 4 young. This habitat is sage brush, pinion pine cedar and open pastures. The elevation is at 7.000 in a very narrow valley south west of Grand Junction CO. The MOBL first eggs are around the 28th. of April and the ASFL first eggs are around the 30th of May. This is just in time to interfere with the second clutch of the MOBL around the 25th of May. Hope this clears up any confusion.
Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 10:59:29 EDT In March, we gave our daughter who lives in Wisconsin a bluebird box. She put
it approx. 100 feet from a large lake, out in the open, approx 100 feet from
trees. She called last evening and reported a flycatcher is nesting in the box
and has 3 eggs. Is this normal for them to nest in BB boxes? . . . Dan Thomas Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 12:30:47 -0400 Hi All, Since posts have been rather slow recently I thought it would be okay to get info on another cavity nester. I knew they were around after hearing them, but had my first "up close" sighting of a great-crested flycatcher on the edge of our property last Sunday. If I remember correctly, there are those of you on the list who have experience with them nesting in your boxes. I would love to attract this beautiful bird. Could some of you help me out with box specs, box location or other tips that would be helpful? Thanks, Lynn
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 12:15:59 -0500 Hi Lynn--- Try the Cornell site. Lots of info. http://birds.cornell.edu/birdhouse/bird_bios/speciesaccounts/grcfly.html Jay Gilliam
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 14:59:32 -0400 Thanks to Alicia Craig at Wild Birds Unlimited for the ready-reference to information on this magnificent, and threatened, songbird. Just so everyone will know....there are similar detailed descriptions of many cavity nesting birds (at least those that use nesting boxes)at The Birdhouse Network of Cornell Lab of Ornithology http://birds.cornell.edu/birdhouse. When you get to that site, click on BIRD BIOS and you will see a whole screen full of listings. Click on your bird of choice and the complete information is there....just as it was for the flycatcher. By the way, Alicia Craig is also a valued member(and Education Committee chair)of the Board of Directors of The North American Bluebird Society.
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 14:51:27 -0500 Lynn I had the great experience of having one nest in a bb box a few years ago. a very different bird from bb's. she was secretive, not outgoing, and very businesslike in her manner. she would sit on the roof of the house and watch until she was sure there was no one around, then suddenly fly right into the box without hesitation. after feeding chicks, she flew out at top speed. she did put the snake skin in the nest that they are famous for. when the babies were nearly old enough to fledge, they were almost hysterical trying to get out of the nest, for 3-4 days before they fledged. i consider myself lucky she picked our yard. Phil Berry
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:55:02 -0500 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas While we are on the topic of Great Crested Flycatchers, I noticed that the hole size recommended for the Great Crested Flycatcher on Cornell's web page is wrong. They have listed a 1&1/4" round hole for this relatively large flycatcher. One of the reasons that the 1&9/16" round hole is recommended by some bluebird trail operators in eastern states is because the Great Crested flycatcher supposedly can enter and will use boxes with this size entrance. I think they "prefer" even larger holes. This I believe is a case of a typo on a quality web site! I would like for someone at Cornell to check this out and get back to the list! Everytime something is printed there is a chance of wrong information being put out! Even if an "expert" sees and writes about something does not mean that you will EVER see or experience this yourself! A couple of years ago Cornell was recommending the oval hole for Mountain and Western bluebirds that gave a size of 1&5/8" wide by 2&1/4" tall. This was WRONG as a 1&5/8" round hole will admit starlings and no bluebird species needs a hole even this large. This was a typo that was also in Dorene Scriven's excellent book "Bluebirds in the Upper Midwest" on page 36. Even so with thousands of bluebird nestboxes placed at "eye level" we seldom ever get this species reported nesting in a bluebird box. Although they say that this species will nest three feet off of the ground I believe that this is a desperation location! I seldom see any wood pecker hammer out a cavity in this area below about 20 feet off of the ground. For the last three years the Great Crested Flycatchers have nested in red bellied woodpecker cavities over 60 feet in the air and in cavities that were under 6" in diameter but about 18" deep in my yard. With 300+ "bluebird" nestboxes mounted between 57&1/2 feet off of the ground I have had one Great Crested nest in one of these boxes since 1964. (It used a "bluebird box" that had the hole enlarged by a red headed woodpecker to about 2"!) Odds in my area of having these low mounted boxes, 5"x5" floor area and 7" deep from bottom of entrance hole to top of floor,used by a Great Crested Flycatcher are about one in 10,000 nestbox years! On the other hand mount a box about 20 feet in the air, build a larger nestbox with a floor area of about 49 square inches, increase depth to about 18", make the entrance hole between 1&3/4"2&1/2" and I can have these birds nest EVERY year at several locations in my area! They are often reported nesting in purple martin houses with these cavities only 6"x6" and the entrance only 1" off of the floor. So it is probably a nestbox height that is one of the main criteria that these birds look for in a nesting site selection. Wood duck boxes are too large or the larger entrance hole allows predators to eat the flycatchers as they seldom ever use these types of large boxes with a hole of 3" round or larger IF there is a correctly sized box in the area. I captured a Great Crested Flycatcher in my garage this spring and using a machinists caliper it measured just under 1&3/8" from breast bone to back bone. Squeezing it down across the folded wing joints it measured just under 1&9/16" wide at the shoulder. It went into one of my 1&9/16" round entrance holes on a nestbox and was able to exit very easily back out of this size hole. I would recommend placing some larger, deeper sized nestboxes in eastern states with the 1&9/16" round hole, some of the SREH (starling resistant entrance holes, the crescent used on Purple martin houses) and then some of the 1&3/4" round entrance holes that are recommended in many publications for this species. You need to help this and the other larger cavity nesters and also to see what size box and hole these birds really prefer. I think the minimum height is about 10 feet off of the ground for good success with this species but once again experiment! Most of my successfully nesting Great Crested Flycatchers have been between 16-24 feet off of the ground. KK
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 10:43:06 EDT Shawna B. NW NJ Zone6 I have had Great Crested Flycatcher's nest in my Woodpecker Box for 2 years in a row, Fledging 4 the first year and 5 this year. The box is 20 feet up a tree and the hole size is 2 1/2" I have seen them check out my BB boxes but have never seen them enter, they are very business like birds and get to nesting within days of Arriving in the spring, the Female builds the nest within 2 days-pretty fast considering she brings in at least 10 inches of nesting material and she will lay the eggs and incubate without you knowing, if you do not watch the box a lot. I do think that she spends very little time actually incubating and I believe the nesting material she chose's helps to do the incubation, It is usually dried out manure she has picked out of the garden along with animal hair and yes snake skins- They usually fledge around day 15 in my yard anyway, They do not stick around once they have fledged the chicks they move on almost immediately, I have seen them return to the yard to use the birdbath and to grab a drink but they do not hang around like the BB do.
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 17:49:34 -0400 Hi Keith and other monitors, Keith brings up some very interesting information. To be quite honest, I'm not sure where the 1 1/4" entrance hole diameter for Great Crested Flycatcher nest boxes originated. The Cornell Nestbox Network research kit was printed before both Tina and I came to the project, and the bulk of the information on the TBN web site http://birds.cornell.edu/birdhouse came directly from that kit. The information in the kit came from a wide variety of sources, including books and manuals for nest box construction and design, scientific papers, articles by trail monitors, etc., so off hand I can't place my hands on the original source. References I did find show 1 1/2" to be the recommended entrance hole diameter. The Birds of North America (BNA) species account* for the Great Crested Flycatcher reports that there is little information on entrance hole diameters, but one study (comparing 7 natural cavities) found entrance hole diameters ranged from 1.9 to 7.1 inches. Admittedly, not a very conclusive study with such a small sample size, but a start. A study on nest site characteristics in Ontario, Canada, compared 181 nests in natural cavities. Heights of nests ranged between 2 feet up to 59 feet, although more than half fell between 5 feet and 15 feet. Another study found the average nest height to be 27 feet. The depth of the 181 nest sites mentioned above ranged from 6 inches to 24 inches, though the majority fell between 12 and 15 inches. Finally, the author of the BNA account writes, "(GC Flycatchers) will accept nest boxes of appropriate size. Smaller nest boxes (15 x 15 x 20 cm, with a 5 cm diameter entrance) were preferred (9 of 12 pairs) over larger boxes (25 x 25 x 50 cm, with a 7.5 cm diameter entrance). In 15 yr. experience comparing hanging or swinging nest boxes to those that do not hang, Morrison (1988) noted preference for hanging or swinging boxes; less subjected to predation, and European Starlings never used hanging boxes; boxes were 15 x 15 x 25 cm, with 4-cm-diameter entrance, 20 cm above floor, and hung on 1-1.2 meters of flexible wire or chain about 3.5-4.5 meters above ground; 2 - 5 centimeters of wood chips in bottom; hung in open woodlands with unobstructed flight to entrance." Sorry about switching to metric on you all! I would like to point out that one of the goals of the Birdhouse Network is to be able to compare many aspects of nest site characteristics between and among various geographic regions. Keith mentions the nest characteristics for the birds in his area, which may be completely different than what the GC Flycatchers are "supposed" to do. Of course, what they are supposed to do may come from one or two studies with small sample sizes from one geographic area, and may not necessarily pertain to other geographic regions. Perhaps the birds "prefer" one suite of characteristics in one area, but in other areas that same suite may be detrimental to nesting success. With your data, we can hopefully find out! I hope this helps, and thanks to Keith for pointing out a possible typo . . . we'll make the appropriate change ASAP. And for anyone who is still reading, I'm not aware that anyone ever got into trouble for sighting a Great Crested Flycatcher. Regards, Mike * The BNA species accounts are an attempt to have everything known about a species consolidated into one booklet. The author(s), experts on that species, scour the scientific literature, and any other relevant literature for that matter, and report it all in the space of 10 - 20 or so pages. It's highly organized, and (hopefully) completely thorough, holding all of the information known about that species to date. Michael Powers mep42"at"cornell.edu From: Greg Jenkins GJenkins"at"NASHOLD.COM From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com Greg, Haleya, et al, Both in Simsbury CT, where we lived for 37 years, and in Sunapee NH, where we've lived since 1988, we've had Great Crested Flycatchers around us all the time. I've never seen them nest in a box, however. Fact is, I've never seen them nest at all. We've normally seen them during the day high up in the tree-tops, and heard their loud, unmistakable 'Phrrre-e-e-e-e-e-p.' Rarely have I had a chance to get a close look at one, because they're usually so high up in the branches, and they tend to be in fairly heavy woods. Bruce Burdett, SW NH Subject: RE: Great Crested Flycatcher Great Crested Flycatchers do use natural tree cavities and nest boxes. They
have been known to nest in odd places, some reports of them nesting in cans
and other odd places. Most nests seem to be found at about 20 feet or below,
some as high as 70 feet. Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 22:01:29 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA Here is the Yahoo search results for the Great Crested: From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas One of the main reasons for using this size entrance hole for the Eastern Bluebird is because the Great Crested Flycatcher over laps the same breeding territory and they seldom will use the slightly smaller 1&1/2" round hole. Alicia and others have mentioned some of the facts on these relatively rare birds but they are now searching for nest sites safe from the starling. Unfortunately these flycatchers come back north late and have to compete with millions of nesting starlings. Nearly all natural cavities made by woodpeckers have entrance holes 1&3/4" or larger or else the Downies made their openings too small for this larger bird. Squirrels often enlarge natural cavities so the entrance is about 3" which is perfect for Kestrels and small owls. So for the last 100 years Starlings have been taking over their nest sites and forcing them into larger holed cavities and probably allowing kestrels, squirrels and owls to raid their nests along with the common tree climbing snakes in the Eastern states. I only recall ever having but one successful nest of Great Crested Flycatchers below 6 feet off of the ground. They have preferred my larger flicker boxes (7"x7" floor and 12" deep floor to hole) placed above 14 foot from the ground mounted to tree trunks. I have encountered NUMEROUS snakes in these flicker boxes over the years and have lost several native birds in a single week to snakes in these boxes! I am experimenting with snake proofed telescoping poles up around 10 Feet off of the ground and larger boxes this year in wooded areas but the bluebirds have taken over many of these boxes in horrible habitat for them and I also now have 8 pairs of starlings in some of the others with entrance holes of 1&11/16". (1&10/16" or 1&5/8" is known to allow nearly all starlings to enter but I have not had any success getting Great Crested's to nest in smaller entrance holes. Just like bluebirds, chickadee's and titmice they don't realize we are reducing the hole size for their protection even if they wish the hole to be bigger!) I would think that we could increase the population of these flycatchers with more nestboxes in more wooded areas at a height they prefer. Since Gary Springer is done feeding birds for the summer:-))) and he has most of his nestboxes 8-12 feet off of the ground in wooded areas then providing a few nestboxes in his area for the flycatchers would add to our knowledge of these rare birds. If we can get some nesting in 1&9/16" holes where they would be safe from Starlings we would help these birds also and that is probably the best reason for using the 1&9/16" round entrance hole for bluebirds in the eastern U.S. KK Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 09:08:42 -0400 I appreciate the information. A couple of years ago we had a pair of Great Crested Flycatchers checking out our boxes. All of our boxes had 1 1/2 inch round entrance holes. They acted like they couldn't get in but you wrote that they can actually enter. So I don't really know what was happening. We enlarged a hole in one of the boxes but by the time we had completed this, the flycatchers had moved on. They were beautiful birds and we would welcome them back anytime. We've only "seen" them that one time but as someone wrote earlier, they apparently stay high in the trees. Thanks again for the information. Pat Haught, Fairview, WV From: Greg Jenkins GJenkins"at"NASHOLD.COM Phil, et al, Greg Jenkins From: craiga"at"wbu.com mailto:craiga"at"wbu.com Great Crested Flycatchers do use natural tree cavities and nest boxes. Both sexes build the nest with twigs, leaves, bark, moss and pine Great-crested Flycatchers usually have one brood per season of about Great Crested Flycatchers migrate to Central America for the winter. I Nature is so unpredictable and being able to enjoy nature doing 'its Alicia Craig ...
From: LRBPERF"at"aol.com Shawna B. NW NJ Zone6 Hello to all, I have had GCF nest in the woodpecker box in my yard for the last 3 years I believe it is the same pair each year, they are very secretive birds and they can complete their nest and you would never they are there, seems to me the female builds the nest as the male guards her, She ALWAYS uses the dry manure from the garden for her nesting material I believe it helps to incubate the eggs because the female really spends very little time on the nest compared to a Bluebird, And of course the snake skins which they try to leave hanging out of the box the wind usually takes it the ground and they pick it up time and time again, she usually completes the nest and lay's her eggs within 10 days of arriving in the spring, last year she had 4 eggs in the box before I ever knew she had the nest built, they get very use to me and I sit close to the box and they go about their business, their box is 20 ft off the ground attached to a tree. This pair usually has 4 fledglings and bugs seem to be a problem in the nest because of the manure, Once the eggs hatch the pair becomes VERY vocal and you know when they are around because they are LOUD. I have never had the young stay more than 15 days in the box, after they fledge they sit in the hedge row right under the box for 3-4 days and then they are gone. I usually don't see them again till spring and I never see the "Kids" again. My pair has not arrived yet this year I checked the box last Sat. and no nest yet, They are great birds and anyone would enjoy having them nest close where you can watch. They eat LOTS OF BUGS.Hope this offer's some insight into a wonderful bird. Shawna From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net A few thoughts I've had about the Great Crested Flycatcher Each year my property hosts at least two pairs of Great Crested flycatchers. Their squawking is a very common spring and summer sound and they're not shy about feeding in the yard. The property apparently provides everything they like, an orchard like habitat adjacent to an open oak grove, all surrounded by mature forest. But, even though I've made some nest box entrance holes larger to accommodate them, and these are mounted 8 to 10 feet high, they have yet to use any of them. They may prefer a larger cavity than the standard size bluebird box and I will eventually try this but I don't think this is very critical because most natural cavities are even more crowded than bluebird size nest boxes. But, there are always pileated woodpeckers here so maybe the crested flycatcher is using this birds larger cavities, and, these larger cavities may be another attraction that causes the crested flycatcher to be so common on the property. Other than the size of the nest boxes, it seems the only other reason they may be shunning them is that this bird, unlike bluebirds, may prefer natural cavities even more so than do tufted titmice. There are dozens of standing dead pine trees with woodpecker holes,and, there are a lot of cavities in living trees within the mature forest. I can easily locate the nests of most birds by watching them come and go. But, the crested flycatcher is a lot more secretive and its movements more difficult to follow. This secretive nature may be another reason it seems to prefer natural cavities. Natural cavities aren't nearly as obvious as nest boxes. Gary Springer From: "Susan C. Hubbard" s.c.hubbard"at"worldnet.att.net I had a pair of great crested flycatchers in my yard today. I don't think they have been around before (at least when I was home), because I certainly would have noticed the call. Nothing else in my yard has that kind of volume! My questions: Thanks! Sue Hubbard From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas They prefer deeper and larger nestboxes, those with about 3645 square inches of floor space. They lay eggs that are larger than House Sparrow eggs and are heavily spotted. Their nests are VERY easy to mistake for a House Sparrow nest since they include a lot of trash. The female will hiss loudly and "strike" like a snake when you go to open the nestbox. I have had more of these birds use flicker sized nestboxes with 2&1/2" entrance holes placed about 14 feet off the ground mounted on tree trunks. The ones nesting in my yard use red bellied nest cavities that are 40-60 feet off the ground. They seem to prefer "forest edge" type habitat. Scattered trees in open park like forests are where you hear their calls which Bruce mentioned. Competition from Starlings for available nest sites is severe for these birds and I see them nesting late in summer after the Starlings are done for the year. It sounds like each of your trail monitors will need to place at least one larger and deeper nestbox for flicker sized birds:-))) You might go ahead and build each of them a kestrel/screech owl box too for their trails:-))) Heck don't forget the barn owls and barred owls since you know they are all going to want a Bat house too....Once Christy's group starts raising Turkey Vultures in their nestboxes next year it will make it a LOT easier for her co-workers to bring her new desk ornaments as these birds are happy with any type of road kill:-))) What an interesting hobby we are involved with:-))) KK From: Jennifer Maxwell Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 1:17 PM Subject: Great-crested Flycatchers Hi all, Can anyone who has had Great-crested Flycatchers use a box tell me what type of box they seem to prefer, height mounted, and any other pertinent details? I've read TBN's website info. If I make a deeper box will I have better luck? Does hanging the box work better than a pole mounted box? I've had a pair at home and at the sanctuary where I have a trail, but they've always used a natural cavity so far. Jennifer Maxwell Greenville, TX From: Phil Berry [mailto:mrtony8"at"mchsi.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 6:25 AM Subject: Re: Great-crested Flycatchers I have had them nest in a regular bb box. They are a neat bird, secretive, quiet, and very alert. They will not enter the box until sure no one is nearby. Most often will place a snake skin in the box when nest is completed. Phil Berry From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net] These birds seem to prefer natural cavities located about 25 feet or higher off the ground. Most natural cavities in East Texas that they use have a hole about 1&3/4" in diameter and the cavity is about four to 6" in diameter and about a foot or more deep. They commonly use old cavities from red-bellied, red headed and yellow shafted flickers. I have had them build in a couple "bluebird" nestboxes about 5 feet off the ground that had woodpecker enlarged entrance holes of about 1&3/4". They seemed to prefer flicker nestboxes with a 7"x7" bottom and about 16" deep that were mounted 12 feet or so up in open limbed trees like pecans. This is also the type location that snakes, squirrels and other predators prefer! These flycatchers seem to begin nesting in East Texas in late May and early June when the Starlings finish nestings as they cannot compete with the Starling. Last year we found Great Crested Flycatchers nesting in a 4" square metal pipe stuck in a pile of scrap steel at a junk yard. They fledged right beside the main road going into the middle of the junk yard and were only four feet off the ground.....Shawn was able to sit four or five feet from the pipe and take their pictures. The pipe was on a flat angle and they nested about 20" down in the pipe, the young would beg for food at the opening and scramble to the bottom when someone walked by. Starlings on the other hand are NOT using the hollow log nestboxes I have mounted in trees here at my house, but they are using nearly all of the larger nestboxes I have mounted on buildings and a few of the boxes I have installed on metal poles from 6 feet off the ground to about 10 feet. Maybe Starlings know that tree mounted nestboxes lead to more predation although they are using two woodpecker cavities from 20 to 45 feet off the ground. KK From: Bet Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net] From: Phil Berry [mailto:mrtony8"at"mchsi.com] From: Haleya Priest [mailto:mablue"at"gis.net] From: JCGARRIOTT"at"satx.rr.com [mailto:JCGARRIOTT"at"satx.rr.com]
I have an unusual apparent competition for my bluebird boxes. Currently, 3 of 7 nestboxes are being occupied by great-crested flycatchers. The first of these now has 3 hatchlings (I removed 1 egg for id thinking it might be a HOSP). This pair occupied a bluebird box with 5 eggs, within 1-2 days of hatching. The bluebird pair just disappeared, and have not re-nested in any of the other vacant boxes. When I noticed the box inactive, the eggs were undisturbed but something had added some fur nesting material around the nest. 4 red-speckled eggs were then laid in the same nest as the bluebird eggs (which are still present). On further observation, I was able to see the flycatchers attending the nest. My question is: is it likely the flycatchers drove the pair away so close to hatch time, or did they more likely occupy the nest due to some loss of the female bluebird? I kept expecting to see them (the bluebird pair) take one of the other nearby empty boxes, but they have never been seen since. I don't see much on here about flycatchers, so if anyone has experience I would appreciate some advice. Thanks. Jim Hill Country N. of San Antonio, TX From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net]
The Great Crested Flycatchers are really a better bird to be helping right now than the Eastern Bluebird! It is unheard of to have enough of the flycatchers nesting in a small area to use 3 of seven nestboxes! It is always possible for one bird species to drive off another pair that is too timid to fight for their nest site. Normally the bluebird pair will stay in the area when they lose their nest and stay near the nestbox for several days. If the female gets killed at night the male will often still sing and call from the general area for weeks on end trying to attract another female. It sounds to me like a hawk could have killed both adults and I have had many reports over the years of a cat that came near a nesting pair of bluebirds and people have watched the pair of bluebirds try to drive off the cat by dive bombing it until both of the birds were killed by the cat. If only the male had been killed the female would have normally continued to incubate. Great Crested Flycatchers normally nest fairly high off the ground and begin nesting in the month of May. They often use feathers and snake skin or plastic in their nests which can EASILY be confused with a House Sparrow nest. They normally use an entrance hole 1&5/8" round or larger but can easily fit into a 1&9/16" round hole or the Peterson Oval entrance hole. They will nest in small diameter nestboxes up to wood duck and owl sized nestboxes. Yesterday morning I took a photo of a beautiful Great Crested Flycatcher nest that contains 5 flycatcher eggs and one Brown Headed Cowbird egg (looks like a House Sparrow egg). If you want to see this or use this photo on your web pages I can send it as a JPEG file. I can also send a small photo that Shawn took last June of Great Crested Flycatchers nesting in the 4" square steel tube at the junk yard about 4 feet off the ground with me standing by the nest site. The reason few people mention these birds is that few people on this list EVER have even one pair nesting in their boxes. Carefully measure the entrance holes of your nestboxes, floor size and height mounted and share this with the list! If possible get photo's of the nests at some point in time. These birds may not take as much people interference as other birds so be careful during monitoring and note that the female will often hiss and strike at you when you open the nestbox and she is incubating. These are normally a woodland bird found nesting near mature trees in and open woodland habitat. KK From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"tds.net]
JCG, I'd be interested to know whether the hole sizes on these boxes taken by Flycatchers are the standard 1 1/2" diameter. I am a little surprised that Great Crested Flycatchers can get into a standard-size Bluebird entrance. Can others report similar instances of these Flycatchers getting through a 1 1/2" hole? I have never known it to happen, and we have plenty of Great Cresteds here. Bruce Burdett From:
Anne Jones [mailto:ac.jones"at"comcast.net] We live in the DFW, TX area and sunday evening watch two GCFs (is that the right abbreviation (!) )...check out one of our BB boxes..several visits but never went in and I assumed it was because of the hole being too small.... Would be interested in ... 1 - appropriate hole size and box depth ? (may try to "re-fit " someof our BB houses) 2 - if we do this...will we be invited the starlings ? (have finally evicted them "permanently" from our Purple Martin house) 3 - do we also need to raise the house (right now all are mounted on T posts ? about 5-6 feet 4 - F...our bird book (Peterson) indicated the GCF egg has "brown" speckles...and I was concerned that I might confuse their eggs with HOSP...which have been especially obnoxious this year... We watched and saw one of these guys chowing down on a grasshoppers...so we'd like to encourage them before my garden is totally eaten up !!!! Anne Jones, Flower Mound TX From:
PTom [mailto:ptom"at"austin.rr.com] For the sake of keeping the conversation going when Jim Garriott is away from his computer, I'll share with you that his three Great Crested Flycatcher (GCFL) nestings are in bluebird nestboxes with 1 1/2" holes. I asked him the question last night, and the answer means the Texas Bluebird Society needs to add GCFL to our season summary form. Phil Berry in Florida sees quite a few GCFL nestings in 1 1/2"-hole "bluebird" nestboxes. Jim surmises that the GCFL looks larger than it is because of the large crest and long tail. The GCFL now nesting in my backyard (they're bringing in large grasshoppers for the nestlings) are in a slightly oversized "bluebird" nestbox with a slightly enlarged hole that's mounted on 10-foot EMT conduit. I put the nestbox out to invite them last year, and they accepted the offer this year. The pairs that Jim has nesting are including buffalo fur in their nest! (His buffalo are shedding.) I watched mine pulling hair from squirrel tails (for hours) during one day of nest building! Hilarious. I've found the GCFL here are quite "enjoyable". Like bluebirds, the pair spends time atop the nestbox during the nesting cycle. They aggressively divebomb the squirrels who eat the "bird butter" I have in suet cages. And, I'm quite positive one of them came to say "hello" to me when they arrived this season. He flew into the oak tree close to my window (normally GCFL are out in the open) and sat as close to me as he could while I was at the computer. When they were here three summers ago, they seemed to "enjoy" it when our family was eating dinner outside. Their nest could easily be mistaken for a House Sparrow nest. I happened to watch them building and couldn't help but hear their loud "wheep", so there was no doubt. I follow Keith Kridler's "err on the safe side" rule when removing House Sparrow nests. When in doubt as to whether a nest is a House Sparrow's, I leave it. Even for nests "out on the trail", with weekly monitoring I will eventually see a parent for certain identity. Pauline Tom Mountain City (no mountains) TX From: JCGARRIOTT"at"satx.rr.com [mailto:JCGARRIOTT"at"satx.rr.com]
Thanks to Pauline Tom for relaying some of my comments to the list on this subject after my post yesterday. I have been out of town today and am grateful for all the replies and useful information posted on the flycatchers. I will obtain more information to respond to some of the inquiries when I visit the ranch in the next few days. I will re-measure the hole sizes, and photograph the nests and eggs. One of the nests, the one with the bluebird eggs, has 3 flycatcher babies that will probably fledge soon. On this house I now frequently see a parent sitting, where they were very shy before the eggs hatched and were rarely seen. The second nest I noticed is being built in my brand spanking new luxury bluebird house, the one with the shutter and window for viewing, so I know that is a 1.5" hole. I have seen the parent sitting on that box several times already. The habitat is typical Texas Edwards Plateau oak-cedar hill country, 105 acres mostly still in virgin woodlands. The nestboxes are placed in the pastures or clearings so as to attract EABB's. The third is also a bluebird house and last Sunday had one egg present. The eggs are reddish-brown spotted and streaked on the end, and the one I measured was .89 inches, strikingly larger than the EABB eggs that were still present. The curious thing was that they did not really build a nest, but lined the bluebird nest with some buffalo fur, and proceeded to lay their eggs within a few days, the bluebirds having disappeared. The flycatchers nested in one of the bluebird boxes last year also. In view of the apparent rarity of this phenomenon of so many G-C flycatcher nests, I will try to get some more careful id's of these birds. At first I thought they were Ash-throated flycatchers, but they do have the yellowish undersides which led me to the G-C id. Ash- throats are a bit smaller, and I'm not sure whether they come this far east. Regarding Keith's comments on the loss of the bluebird pair, I still have no idea what happened to them. We have frequent hawks and small mammal predators, no feral cats. Meanwhile, if Keith could somehow send me a picture of the nests and eggs he has I would greatly appreciate it. Jim From: judymellin [mailto:judymellin"at"netzero.net]
You might want to check the Cornell site for nestbox requirements. http://www.birds.cornell.edu/birdhouse/bhbasics/refrchart.html#requirements On the site where I monitor, I have record numbers of great-crested flycatchers on territory this season, all in natural habitat. When I check my reports in Cornell's eBird, I can see that numbers of this species have increased dramatically since 2001 at my site. I had at least 11 of them on Saturday, all singing their little hearts out! Judy Mellin NE IL. From: JCGARRIOTT"at"satx.rr.com As I posted last week, there are three flycatcher nests in 3 of my 8 bluebird boxes. I visited on Thursday to check on them and to answer some questions posted by list members. As it seems to be quite rare to have even one to nest in a bluebird box, I am interested in other listmembers' experiences and to verify these birds identity. All of these are in the more forested area of a ranch in the Texas hill country, near either the creek or the pond, but are in open pasture or at least separated from any dense trees as we do for bluebirds. Box 1, the one that was taken over from a bluebird nesting with 5 eggs ready to hatch, has 3 young flycatchers nearly ready to fledge, so I didn't disturb them much. However, there are some photos showing the yellow rump of one of them. The parent, probably female, stays in a nearby tree or on the power line watching, but does not come near if you approach the box. I took two photos of her (not close enough to id, but showing her general shape, which to me is quite consistent with the G-C flycatcher). In the second box, I have a shot of one of the eggs which I brought out from the dense fur nest to make visible. Spotted and streaked reddish. By the way, this is a new bluebird box, with an oval hole. The flycatchers occupied it almost immediately. The other boxes seem to have the standard 1.5" holes, although one is slightly enlarged. Although the flycatchers are very shy, they may often be seen perched on the box, especially the one with the babies. I have not seen snake skin in the nests, which is typical for these birds, although some plastic material was used. Box 3 is near the pond and had 3 eggs at last count. This is the most recent to be occupied. Again, this one is 90% buffalo or other animal fur. These birds are elongated with a very long reddish- brown (cinnamon) tail, and prominently display the crest. Sides are yellow, or at least one of the sexes has this. To see them, it is the hard to imagine them entering this small hole, but obviously that is not a problem. Keith Kridler kindly sent me photos of his G-C flycatcher and nest. Everything I see seems to be consistent with his photos, although if anything his eggs seem to be even more densely speckled than mine. Thanks for all the comments and help. I am really interested in positively identifying thse birds. I think the only other possibliity would be the Ash-throated, but it seems smaller and more compact from what I have seen. Anyone who wants to see the digital pics can let me know privately. Jim Garriott From: Joe Huber [mailto:hubertrap"at"webtv.net] hi Jim, The one thing about the Great Crested Flycatcher you have not mentioned in a way to identify them is their loud squawking noise. Nothing else sounds like this bird when it comes to their song or what ever you call it. I hear them all over when traveling, once you hear them you can't forget that loud squawking sound. Hope this helps you with identification. Joe Huber,Venice Florida, Formerly Heath Ohio From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"tds.net]
Joe, In my opinion, the Great Crested Flycatcher's "loud squawking" says "Phrreeep. phrreeep" Bruce Burdett, SW NH From: judymellin You might want to check the Cornell site for nestbox requirements. http://www.birds.cornell.edu/birdhouse/bhbasics/refrchart.html#requirements On the site where I monitor, I have record numbers of great-crested flycatchers on territory this season, all in natural habitat. When I check my reports in Cornell's eBird, I can see that numbers of this species have increased dramatically since 2001 at my site. I had at least 11 of them on Saturday, all singing their little hearts out! Judy Mellin NE IL. From: lviolett"at"earthlink.net Judy, the "nestbox requirements" from the site you provided (Cornell's) also lists 3' to 6' height for Eastern and Western Bluebirds. All boxes for Western Bluebirds on my trail and most of So. Calif. is about 12' to 20'. Not all listed "requirements" are actually required and perhaps not even a preference of the birds. From: JCGARRIOTT"at"satx.rr.com The flycatchers that have nested in 3 of my bluebird boxes this year are the Ash-throated flycatcher (ATFL). I have received information from a number of sources that helped me come to this conclusion. The field guides were not much help because I was not able to see the subtle field marks (white throat) and they resembled the GCFL by most measures. The ATFL, however, characteristically uses animal fur for its nest (mine do), nests low, and does nest in my county (Kendall, central Texas) whereas the GCFL is rare or absent here. The voice descriptions some of you contributed also helped. The ATFL is probably near the eastern most part of its range here, so most of you will never see one. Many people on the list provided helpful information, and it was much appreciated. By the way, the first nesting of the ATFL (which took over my bluebird nest just before their eggs hatching) fledged their 3 babies last week. I have a photo of them in the nest if anyone wants me to send it. The 2nd and 3rd pairs are now incubating 4 eggs each in bluebird houses (1.5" holes). They are beautiful birds, although shy and hard to view-- I am only not so happy about them displacing my bluebirds as they are only beginning to increase, since I have had only 1 nesting pair until this year. Thanks to all who shared their knowledge with me. Jim From: khussie"at"localnet.com [mailto:khussie"at"localnet.com] Does anyone on the list know about great crested flycatchers. I was at the Cape May County, NJ zoo over the holiday, and I spotted one on one of the many bird boxes around the perimeter of the zoo...bordering a golf course. I never knew they used boxes. From: Haleya Priest [mailto:mablue"at"gis.net] Yes, indeed they are secondary cavity nesters. I and many others have been blessed with their nesting in our boxes. Mine are nesting in kestrel boxes, others find them nesting in their bluebird boxes. Go to Cornell's link below and then click on "bird bios". You'll be able to click in Great Cresteds there to find more info. Or do a google search. I don't know where you live - but listen for the loud "wheep, wheep, wheep" sound they make. You might have some nesting in natural cavities right in your area. They are on Cornell's top 10 wanted list - so if you have them in your area you could be blessed by their presence also! :-) H
From: bookfanaticef-bluebird"at"yahoo.com [mailto:bookfanaticef-bluebird"at"yahoo.com] Hello Everyone, From: Linda [mailto:linyl"at"alltel.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 8:03 PM Subject: keeping snakes out I read that if you put "moth balls" around the base of the pole below the BB From: bookfanaticef-bluebird"at"yahoo.com [mailto:bookfanaticef-bluebird"at"yahoo.com] I have not heard of that, but I would most definitely *not* try it. From: bookfanaticef-bluebird"at"yahoo.com [mailto:bookfanaticef-bluebird"at"yahoo.com] I've just read and replied to a couple posts regarding snakes in nest boxes, and I just remembered something that I recently found out. From: RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com [mailto:RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com] My adventures in birdboxing has taken an up and a down. 1. My EABLs have hatched their first nestling in their 2nd clutch. My Sweetie was sitting on them when I opened the box, then flew out. What a divine experience it is to watch and be a small part of this! 2. My GCFLs lost their last nestling while I was away to an unknown predator. I will restrict the hole a bit and make the entrance wood deeper as part of this so a larger bird like a Woodpecker or Bluejay can't reach in. GCFLs are not generally known to go for a renesting? Can anyone advise me about the old nest. Should I dump it? It looks clean like the nestlings died early or even as eggs. It appears to have a lot more feathers in it which leads me to suspect they might be renesting. I've been back less than half a day and haven't seen either one. Ron From: Lawrence Herbert [mailto:lherbert"at"4state.com] Ron and Bluebirdsters: ----- Original Message -----
From: Keith & Sandy Kridler
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 6:50 AM
Subject: Re: Bird call question
Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
You know the Great Crested Flycatchers are coming up from Central America this year in droves. They belt out their calls very loudly but you seldom see the birds when you look around for whom ever is calling. To me they are calling TREEEEEEPPPPP-Treeepp-Treep with a long E sound. They often cut off their calls in short bursts at the end and it could be described as your "beep da beep". They sometimes sounds like they have the hiccups in the middle of their calls.
Last year they nested in some of the large Purple Martin Gourds we had hanging up in Jack Finches Paulownia trees. They chose gourds that were 20 feet off the ground or more. These gourds are 10>14" in diameter and I used 2&1/8" hole saws to cut the larger entrance holes. Theoretically they should be able to enter and use the 1&9/16" round entrance holes on bluebird nestboxes. I only recall them ever using bluebird boxes AFTER woodpeckers enlarged the holes to about 1&3/4".
For me they seldom use a bluebird nestbox down around 5 feet off of the ground. We OFTEN had them using the Yellow Shafted Flicker nestboxes that were 7"X7" and 16" deep or so that were mounted up in our Pecan trees about 14 feet up the tree trunks. In the wild you often see them using woodpecker cavities 40 to 60 feet off of the ground. They normally begin nesting in this area RIGHT after the Starlings fledge their young. Their nests OFTEN have snake skins in them or cellophane and they closely resemble a House Sparrow nest. They also lay a speckled egg VERY similar to the House Sparrow eggs. They are just SLIGHTLY larger than a Cowbird egg or a House Sparrow egg BUT people probably toss some of their nests thinking them to be sparrows.
When Jack Finch passed away in North Carolina he was in the middle of experimenting with Great Crested Flycatcher nestboxes mounted down low (mail box high) on his trees. It seems in his area that the Great Crested would OFTEN nest in mailboxes or the plastic newspaper tubes. Jack made about a 100 horizontal nestboxes that were about 6" Square and about 24" long. These had one end that was open like a paper chute. BUT instead of making a wood end with a round entrance hole he used a piece of 1"x1" welded wire that was attached VERY securely across the open end to protect against raccoons and cats. He cut out about a 2"x2" hole in the wire for the flycatchers to enter. The box was so deep that the birds could build back out of the reach of four legged predators. He made the back 6"x6" piece a door he could open as the birds normally nested right against the back wall.
He used the Harry Krueger mesh snake trap wrapped around the trunks of his Paulownia trees below these boxes. He chose these because these plantation trees were fairly open but have a nice blend of forbs and bushes and the flycatchers seemed to like the open canopy in these five acre plots. The dominant second growth trees in these paulownias were Florida Dogwoods, Bradford Pears and Tartarian Honeysuckle. All coming from fruits eaten by bluebirds, mockingbirds, Cedar Wax wings, Robins ETC.
While checking nestboxes yesterday a Great Crested was calling from a huge dead oak tree. A large limb had just broken off and had fallen on top of freshly cut hay. It was about 14 feet long and fell more than 30 feet. In this one length of limb there were three different woodpecker cavities. It snapped off through the middle of a large cavity that I assume was made by a Pileated Woodpecker as the opening was around 4" and the cavity was 10" or so across the widest part and about 20 inches deep with possible more depth still up in the main tree. The limb was so rotten that it shattered at all of the cavities making measuring them difficult to impossible. KK
From: Bob Walshaw [mailto:walshaw1 "at"cox.net] Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 9:47 PM Subject: Great Crested Flycatcher I had the same experience last year, Keith. A family nested in my plastic super Purple Martin gourds. From: Linda Ruth [mailto:lindaruth "at"earthlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 3:05 PM Subject: RE:Great Crested Flycatcher This year I tried to attract a Great Crested Flycatcher to a box by attaching a snakeskin to the front using 2 thumbtacks. This morning the snakeskin was gone- I guess she liked the snakeskin but not the box! (I haven't found her nest yet).
Linda Ruth
Coventry, CT
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