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Bluebird foster parentsSubj: foster parents Subj: Re: Checking for unhatched egg........AND you may be suprised! Subj: Re: Transferring orphan BB's Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 23:02:44 -0700 Kevin Putman, Yuba City, CA Herbert: from your description, it sounds like you may have put the 2 eggs from the disturbed nest into a developing nest where the hen has yet to lay more eggs. If so, that hen may end up with more than she can handle. Alternately , were either of these nests under incubation? If so, the eggs are not likely at same stages of development and will thus not hatch at same time--asynchronous. Either way, it's tricky business swapping eggs from one nest to another. Probably best to leave things alone unless you know both nest development factors and that the disturbed nest is, in fact, abandoned. If it is still under care, you might as well let it be --unless you are sure of some imminent threat, i.e., raccoon, etc.
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 06:45:29 -0500 Keith Kridler showers in Northeast Texas! Ice last Sunday morning in bird baths I agree with Kevin about the egg swapping. I added four bluebird eggs that were over a month old to an actively laying house sparrow nest with two eggs, giving her 6. She was either spooked or something because she quit laying eggs and began incubating all 6 eggs after three days. My son Shawn wanted to see how much disturbance the House Sparrow would handle and after five days of catching and "playing" with the female House Sparrow she has abandoned the nest. My first Eastern bluebirds fledged from a box on Sunday April 2 late afternoon (one was still in the box "at" 4 PM) Sunday April 9 about 4 PM there was a new nest and 4 new eggs so a Bluebird built a nest and laid an egg in only 4 days. Very possibly a new pair. It is no wonder we get four nesting a year out of boxes in the south. In an area of my trail where there is very stiff competition for nestboxes there are two nests of bluebirds in 4" pipe placed horizontally by mailboxes for daily papers. One is black steel and one is white PVC. In 14 miles of roads there are only two mailboxes without doors on the front of them & both have bluebird nests with 5 eggs each. I only checked a few of these mailboxes and paper tubes after our Game Warden showed me the first nest at his house even though he has up two of my "Perfect" bluebird houses in his yard. Very possibly these bluebirds are finding it safer to use low mounted boxes near the highway where flying squirrels are taking over the boxes on power poles. Predators like snakes, coons, & cats are thinned out by cars while near roads. Watch for bluebirds around an area with no known nestboxes and see where they nest in your area! Check what the "success" ratio of these "natural" nests is compared to your boxes! KK
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 15:08:18 -0500 Thanks for your thoughts. The nest cup was for the most part destroyed with the eggs on the bottom of the box. Instinctively we wanted to save the eggs and thought that since the one egg house had an active female she would stop laying when her nest was filled. Thinking though your comments we now realize that this probably will not happen. We elected not to remove the eggs from the second distubed nest. The cup was partially destroyed but not to the extent of the first nest. We agree that there is a time difference in the incubation of the old eggs and the new egg(s). Our assumption was and is still that once the nest cup was destroyed that the parents would abandon the nest. Apparently this is an incorrect assumption? We will observe and will report our success/failure with this experiment. Prior to this we had read that is was possible to transfer fledglings to another nest box when it was clear that the parents were no longer taking care of them. The advice was to move the youngsters to a nest of the same approximate age. Sounds tricky to a novice. But then that is what we have done only with eggs instead of birds. Thanks again for you thoughts. We are learning but do not want to cause harm in the process. Hopefully this exchange will help others. ...
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 22:21:24 -0700 Kevin Putman, Yuba City, CA Rained most of the day. Checked nest that was due to band, found 6 chicks near death, cold (near ambient temp, ~55 degrees--or so they felt), weak. Only food available is earth worms. I've never done this, but I decided to take some of the chicks out. 4 were clearly near death, 2 others were more vigorous so I left them with hen. They will survive if she broods them tonight, and she should be capable of covering just two. I put the 4 I took close to heater in truck; as soon as they warmed up (~1 hr) they were a raucous bunch! An amazing transformation--with just heat. But they needed food, so I went to pet store, bought mealworms. Now all four are doing great. Weather should clear tomorrow, so I hope to return them to the nest. Hopefully the hen will have managed to keep the other two alive and still be with them, otherwise I will have to raise these 4 myself, as there are no other nests of this age.
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 08:03:43 -0400 I'm writing for clarification not to criticize. It is my understanding that federal law prohibits removing nests, nestlings, etc. Is this correct? I applaud Kevin's efforts and truly hope that all 6 chicks survive, however, there's been a lot of recent discussion about letting nature take its course. I've struggled with the same issues. For those who know, please post the correct procedures. Patty, Fairview, WV ...
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 23:23:27 -0700 Kevin Putman, Yuba City, CA weather did clear today, mostly sunny. returned to the nestbox to see if hen had kept the remaining two chicks alive overnight. She did; they were fine. Incidentally, those two chicks were close to ambient temperature (~55) yesterday also, so she must have brooded them or they wouldn't have survived the cool night. With clear weather, hen was able to find food for them today. Meanwhile, we (me, my wife, and my 3-yr-old son) have been stuffing the other four with mealworms--they ate a box of 50 jumbos! I returned one of these four chicks to the nest when I visited today; I still have the smallest 3 here. Doubt that all 6 could survive the cool night in the nestbox--they are still rather scrawny, lack feathers, and hen can't cover/ brood them all-- so I'm keeping them for a bit longer, until they are vigorous enough to generate enough of their own body heat and until they fatten up a bit more / put on some feathers. When I do return them, I will do it one at a time, over a period of several days so that the parents can make a gradual adjustment to the growing number of mouths to feed. The one that I returned today was the first step.
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 10:18:08 EDT Dear Kevin, How wonderful, I'm glad momma bird was successful in keeping her 2 alive. You are so smart to add the others gradually for her to adapt and because of the weather. They say children learn more from what we do than what we say. Your son is learning a sensitivity and respect for life! Just think what he is learning from this. If more children learned these things from caring concerned adults like you and your wife we would not have the violent issues we have today with today's youth. This is such a learning experience for children. My 15 year old son is really enjoys it, even though he won't always admit it and calls me obsessed, he sneaks a peak at momma and her eggs when no one is looking. What fun feeding those young ones those worms. I can't believe they ate 50 jumbos! You know your family will always remember this and the bluebirds will fly over and be grateful in there own BB way. All the best, Pam
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:27:47 -0700 Kevin Putman, Yuba City, CA weather even better today, 70s and sunny / part clouds. decided that another of the chicks was ready to be returned to the nest. Returned to nest, found the three in good shape, added the fourth. I now have two at home. They should be ready to go back soon. Noticed that the father bluebird has a band: one that I banded in another box in the area during the last two years, no doubt. Thanks to all for nice notes, and I'll keep you all posted. oh, Bruce, that would have been about 3 am Eastern time--around midnight for me. This post is going out at 10:25pm. I'm going to hold you to your promise of that file if I become imprisoned. KP
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:46:59 -0700 Kevin Putman, Yuba City, CA One of the two chicks that I still had died last night. I'm not sure why; it seemed to be doing fine. It was the runt of the bunch, and those often don't survive. Anyway, I returned the last one to join its 4 other siblings at the nest. They were all in good condition--big enough to tell the sex: two females, three males (the runt was also a male). I banded them all. Job done. It was fun.
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 23:01:17 -0400 Early in April, I had a pair build a nest (completed on March 27th) and after the female had laid two eggs, she was killed by a predator (still am not sure what kind). I took the eggs out to Harrisburg PA, about 75 miles west of here, and they were fostered into two nests of females there which had not yet completed their laying. I just got back from being away for the week-end to discover an email Message that the second egg had hatched. This success has underlined for me the importance of developing the network of fellow bluebirders as close to home as possible. It has also shown the value of our state bluebird society. If you don't have one in your state, get one before you need it! Thank you, Jim Lenker and Kathy Clark! Randy Jones
Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 08:33:23 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA Linda you did an excellent job in explaining your choices with your abandoned babies. It raises several questions for me and hopefully will help answer "what to do" for many others who haven't had to deal with this problem: How close in age do the abandoned hatchlings have to be to the foster nest's hatchlings? Within a day, two days, three days? I imagine it has to be within a day or two. I would also like to ask about eggs as well. I imagine the same, within a day or two. Thanks! H
Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 14:27:28 -0400 Yes the eggs were marked. We're sure of it. But Kathy just emailed to say that a predator just killed all her nestlings and the mama. There's one more in another nest. Randy -----Original Message----- I just got back from being away for the
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 13:57:45 EDT Malinda Mastako Hello list--I do not post often, but learn a lot here. Like many of you, I
have been following the bluebird nesting progress on the nestcam Cornell has
installed in South Carolina. There were 6 eggs, only 3 hatched. Their hatching
date was 5/6 and things were normal. Yesterday Cornell posted in the archived
information that "there has been very little parental activity" at the nestbox,
one nestlings has died due to this. Another bluebirding friend emailed Cornell
regarding this and Tina Phillips at Cornell emailed her back stating that it
appears the nestlings will not survive, they have been abandoned. Could I ask a
dumb question here--of all the possible people/places you would expect
intervention, why has Cornell taken this approach and we are now watching
abandoned nestlings die on a nestcam? Why are they not contacting this list for
help from someone with a similar aged nesting in the area since they are the
fosters of this very same national Hoping it is not too late to save these nestlings and that someone out here knows a way of direct contact. Malinda Mastako
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 14:39:11 -0400 Response from Betty Nichols, Middletown, MD Hello Malinda: It's a good thing I do not live in South Carolina - I would raid that box and foster the remaining babies or get them to a rehabber. Is Cornell dependent on Federal funding for this "study"? This is ridiculous!! So I would go to jail, so what?? Betty Nichols
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 14:40:42 EDT Malinda Mastako Me again--thankfully I just received a response from Cornell that the remaining nestlings WERE fostered out today. PHEW!!! Sorry if I alarmed anyone, and glad to report that things are being taken care of. Malinda Mastako
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 14:57:44 -0400 The quote below is posted on the web site: "It appears as though something has happened to the female since she has not been seen in the box in the last 24 hours and it is unlikely that she abandoned the nest. The male bluebird was feeding the two remaining nestlings infrequently, so they were transferred to a nearby foster nest box. Our cam host will keep us updated on the progress of these two nestlings. Visit the South Carolina 2000 Archive page to see archived images of this box."
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 15:23:27 -0400 Dear fellow birders, I will quote what I wrote Malinda: Please be aware that we are doing everything possible to help the nestlings
inside the nest box cam. At about 11am this morning (about the time the cam
stopped uploading images) the two remaining nestlings were transferred to a
foster nest that is not equipped with a cam. Hopefully they will be accepted by
the parents and survive this very fragile period. Sincerely, Tina Phillips Tina Phillips (607) 254-2416
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:02:16 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Remember the rescues which were placed in foster nests? The nest which received 3 foster babies fledged yesterday. Spotted only three being fed in nearby trees yesterday after laying down a handful of mealworms. But today, they were gathering closely around the hanging nestbox. Three babies huddled together on the tree limb above the nestbox, another sitting directly on the nestbox roof and parents taking mealworms to yet another tree. Which means all five chicks (2 native + 3 rescues) survived their first critical 24 hours after the fledge. Watching this made the extra efforts of the rescue all worth while. caren wagner wrote: Sat out on my deck this evening and watched the male EAstern BLuebird
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 07:00:54 -0400 ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Haleya Priest mablue"at"gis.net Hi Haleya & All: To transfer an egg to a newly active box while female is currently laying eggs is too risky. 1. New female might lay 5 or 6 eggs, lose her mate, etc. thus overburdening her w/an additional egg if it hatches. She could abandon entire clutch including your "foster" egg which might have begun cell growth. I would leave well enough alone allowing "dumped egg" to remain in original nest. It is better to lose one egg than risk losing and entire clutch. On your introduction of Gilbertson - Great idea -- I am tempted to do the same thing on a trail I am rejuvenating where there is a profusion of House Sparrows. I would leave the Gilbertson in place and hope the Eastern Bluebird takes a fancy to it! Good Luck! Betty Nichols, Middletown, MD Haleya Priest Amherst MA Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 12:17:12 -0400 Joyce, central Virginia Hi All, Wanted to share this with you for whatever's it worth. Yesterday my husband decided to use his canoe which has not been used this season. It was overturned and setting on two cinder blocks on each end. When he turned it over, a Carolina Wren nest fell out with three eggs. One egg broke, the other two were fine and still warm. He wasn't sure what to do with the remaining two eggs, thinking the parents would abandon them now that the nest was exposed (he said he couldn't find a good concealed spot for it nearby....). So he took the two eggs and placed them in one of our two bluebird nests which had 4 eggs (that's all she was going to lay) and hoped the mother would brood them. He was thinking about cowbirds and their deposit of eggs in other birds nests. He was gone for 4 hours and when he got back ran to check the bluebird nest, hoping she wouldn't abandon her OWN eggs now that these other strange eggs showed up. Both eggs were gone from the nest - one broken at the base of the post and the other gone, but not in sight. So much for her adopting the eggs..... I removed the broken egg at the base of the nest box and all surrounding debris so that no predator would get the scent and come messing around. By the way, the mother and father bluebird are still tending to the nest. Just thought I shared that with the group - have any of you ever known bluebirds to accept eggs from another bird? Joyce, central Virginia Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2001 22:42:02 -0400 About a week ago I came home to find an abandoned baby bird (all brown, not a speck of grey on it)on the ground. after checking to make sure it was not one of the 4 blue bird babies in the bird box, I moved it to a tree in my woded area and kept an eye on it. (My local vet's office said it ws safe to leave it there since it was able to fly in bits and spurts....not much but a little). It survived the night and was in my yard the next morning. However I couldn't find it that evening when I got home. A couple of days later, my partner and I saw the baby bird up in a tree with a male and female blue bird (the same ones who are raising a brood in our bird box). They would hover above it and try to get it to fly. He would climb/fly up a couple of branches but not very far at all. Mom and dad would hover more and bring it food. He basically sat on a branch and cried for them and food. As night approached the two blue birds took turns bring him food and going back to their babies w/food for them. Each evening since, we have watched daddy blue bird give this guy flying lessons and show him around their territory. (It is definitely not a blue bird baby. Doesn't sound like one and doesn't look like the babies we had last yaer, or the ones in the box.) It is really interesting to watch the male blue bird get this guy to fly-he can finally reach the top of a two story house from the ground. The baby bird will sit on the corner of the house and cry for daddy blue bird and when he comes he generally has food for the baby. Today he began giving hunting lessons to the baby and together they dove off the corner of the house into the grass and caught a bug. It is very touching to watch the two birds together. Is this normal behavior for a blue bird to adopt an orphan (of another species)?
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 21:58:53 -0500 Hi Bluebirders, Norrie, Jordan ON From: Okatsam"at"aol.com Malinda Mastako I received information that a lady in Kentucky has an orphaned bluebird nestling, still alive after house sparrow attack. I don't have all the info yet on the particulars, but there is a possibility that there might be a foster nest available. Can anyone tell me how close in age this orphan must be to young in any foster nest that can be found? Two days? Three days?? Thanks in advance-- Malinda Mastako Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 22:09:37 -0700 (PDT) Postscript: The male parent (I am assuming) returned Last year I found a dead female on a nest of five one week old nestlings. With no nestlings close in age in any of the other boxes to lighten the load the male continued to feed them to fledge. As I recall the box contained a lot of cherry pits when I cleaned it. Conditions were much better than they are now. Did you do the right thing? Did I? You make the best possible decision and go
with it. Luckily, everything turned out OK for me and hopefully it will for you.
My only question is "why not release the birds back to your yard?" ===== From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas They supposedly could not fly....When I picked them up they looked to be at least 24 days old and COULD fly and would work with food placed in their mouths but not in their throats and try eating till they got it turned around and ready to swallow....They preferred to fly to your shoulder or top of your head to be fed and everytime you moved your hand close to them they would gap for food. When full they would fly to the large Ficus "tree tops" or bougainvillea vines in the top of our plant room. They had vertical take off and excellent landing skills. OK the problem here is that these birds were WELL past fledging age and Sandy and I could EASILY tell the difference between the voices of the male and female so "wild" bluebirds would be able to tell these were NOT their young!!!! I have seen adult bluebirds attack viciously the young of other bluebirds when they fledged and landed in the "wrong" territory. Would adults accept these young? The odds of hand raising and getting these birds released and feeding on their own would take at least three more weeks...Even then they would lack real bluebird communication skills and survival skills we cannot teach them. They lacked some of the "location" calls and sounds that normal, just fledged young send out. We decided to stuff them with insects (I plowed the garden) and place them right at dark into a nestbox with a single bluebird that was ready to fledge in the next 36 hours. I decided to place a "hole restrictor" onto the box and instead of the 1" round hole we normally recommend to keep them in the box I used a 1&3/16" hole in a 1/4" thick board. Surely this small hole would keep them in. I wanted to keep them in the box overnight and allow the parents to reach in and feed all three "ready to fledge" young all the next day. It would prevent the adults from entering the nestbox and "driving out" the foster kids if they recognized them. If the attacks were bad the young could stay away from the entrance hole and we would "rescue" them at noon the following day. Hopefully the stress of not being able to enter the nestbox would prevent them from being able to concentrate on the change in number of young and difference in calls. I planned to keep them in all day and remove the restrictor the next night. Boy I hated making that noon visit....Hated it even more when I spied the young male bluebird sitting in a short bush about 15 feet from the nestbox....Both of the young bluebirds had exited the box through a 1&3/16" round hole BUT the adult bluebirds ATTACKED me when I pick up the young male and placed him into a thick limbed large elm tree about 10 feet away. In ten minutes they fed him three times and coaxed him up another 10 feet or so. The adult male flew off about 75 feet further and fed the more developed young female twice in another tree about 35 feet off the ground. Just before I left I removed the hole restrictor and the adult female fed her real daughter at the entrance hole just as I cranked up the car to leave. Hopefully these bluebirds will have a good chance at growing up into "normal" birds and maybe they will forget about riding in cars for thousands of miles when they were young! KK |
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