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Fledging and Fledglings - after they leave the nest (Part 2)In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website: Predators and Problems On The Bluebird Trail Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 20:43:57 EDT What do the mothers do all day after they get the
nest "decorated"?? Are they out shopping, having lunch with friends or what?
They don't seem to do I'm thrilled to have them build another nest and
to be raising their family here.
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 11:52:10 -0500 Hello All: We had four bluebirds fledge May 29th. The second group is should fledge in the next few days. For a few weeks the parents evidently did their job well. They fed and taught the fledglings how to survive. For the past week the adults will not tolerate the fledglings anywhere within a hundred feet or so of the nest box or feeder. Most times they just deliver a good peck. Sometimes it looks like they have declared full scale war on the little ones. I feel sure they are freeing themselves up so they can care for the new brood, without any responsibility for the earlier brood. I don't recall ever seeing this subject treated before. Have any of you observed this behavior, is it normal or an aberration? Best regards, Bruce Johnson
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:35:55 EDT
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 10:08:42 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 08:34:40 -0400 Enjoying our coffee this a.m., we noticed two juveniles (one at a time) entering our box with four eggs, staying awhile then leaving. Initially, it appeared that the parents were chasing them away but finally gave up. I did check the nest and the eggs are still intact, with Mom watching my every move. Has anyone noticed this type of behavior with your boxes. Marilyn Pomeroy, Whispering Pines, NC
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 10:48:40 EDT Marilyn Pomeroy's 00-07-29 08:43:34 EDT post reads (in part): . . . two juveniles . . . enter box with four eggs . . . Has anyone noticed this type of behavior with your boxes. Not yet, but I have seen, for the first time, two juveniles enter a closed worm feeder. One male is about 76 days old, the other is about 36 days. I may be in error regarding the second bird's age. It may be the same age as the first, however, if it is older, the parents did not escort it into my yard until they brought some, not all, of the birds from a second brood. Also, I was very much surprised when the older bird, at about 60 days, flew out from its 6 foot high perch atop a feeder to meet and knock down mealworms that were being tossed from about 12 feet to a 9 square foot bare spot in the grass. At first I thought he was just trying to beat his "younger siblings" to the prize. I soon realized that he was sharpening his skills as he would also leap into the air from the ground in his attempt to intercept a "flying" mealie and would not pick one that had landed a few inches from him if he hadn't first knocked it down. Within a week he got so good at hawking mealies that he could routinely catch lofted 3/4 inch worms. During this time he would stay after the other birds departed or sometimes he came before the other birds arrived. This little bugger practiced like a devoted professional - as well he should. I believe its brood siblings were killed within a few days of fledging. Has anyone seen this or similar behavior or am I just learning a common occurrence? Tom Heintzelman
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 16:34:14 -0400 (EDT) On of the best ones for emergency handling
information and contact information is WLREHAB. You'll find them at http://wildliferehab.virtualave.net/.
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 09:18:57 -0400
Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 22:14:04 -0400 I believe you SHOULD be seeing babies with the parents by now. It takes about 2-3 weeks for the parents to bring them out in the open. But, still, to not have any babies survive would be quite unusual. I expect half of them to survive. Sometimes I worry, but the truth is, some of them go off on their own sooner and just when I think I've lost a bunch, they all show up. Let's hope your parents are simply slow to get the
babies out of the woods. H
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 18:21:47 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 19:39:32 -0400
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 08:47:06 -0400
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 11:50:36 EDT
Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 11:00:52 -0400
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:43:52 -0700 (PDT) Hello...When do the bluebird fledglings actually molt into their adult plummage in this part of the country(North Carolina)? Is it generally about the same for the other parts of the country & for the other 2 species? I asked an orinthologist this question today, & he said they molt around 3 weeks after they fledge...no matter when they fledge. Is this correct? I thought that most birds, including the Bluebirds(3 species), start molting in the fall. After my birds fledged back on May 6, I was pretty sure I saw them with the spotted breasts, etc. a month or 2 later. Does anyone have an accurate account of this...I'd appreciate your answers...Thanks...Horace in NC. =====
Hi Horace, Well I don't want to challenge the expertise of an orinthologist, but I have seen a bluebird with bright blue feathers on the body, but with a speckled breast area about 2 months after fledging. It certainly could have been a bird from another brood that I don't know about, but I only have one pair nest in my yard so I assumed all the juveniles I see are from their broods. So my experience seems to coincide with yours and I'm not that far from you. Joyce Sobey, Powhatan, VA Horace Sher wrote: Hello...When do the bluebird fledglings actually molt Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:55:45 EDT I had seen the same thing and could pretty well tell the male from the female 2 months later... as the season went on I found I was correct and noticed the males begged food from the parents longer than the females also. Linda - Ind.
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 17:52:41 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA Maybe they start at molting at 3 weeks, do if so it is the tiniest amount that I surely can't notice. I just saw some of my last fledged (Aug 15) last week and they had 99% of their adult plumage - but I could still see a tad of the thrush spots way up top of its breast. The molting process has been a very gradual process. H
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 11:02:21 -0400 Diane Seward in Potomac, Maryland My juveniles from two nestings (fledging in late May and early July) molted very gradualy over the summer. It was easy to distinguish the second brood from the first by the amount of speckling on their breasts. In early October several of this year's fledglings returned to the site of the nest box and feeding station--all in their adult plumage. Quite a striking appearance. -----Original Message----- From: Horace Sher [mailto:hjsher1"at"yahoo.com] Hello...When do the bluebird fledglings actually molt into their adult plummage in this part of the country(North Carolina)? Is it generally about the same for the other parts of the country & for the other 2 species? I asked an orinthologist this question today, & he said they molt around 3 weeks after they fledge...no matter when they fledge. Is this correct? I thought that most birds, including the Bluebirds(3 species), start molting in the fall. After my birds fledged back on May 6, I was pretty sure I saw them with the spotted breasts, etc. a month or 2 later. Does anyone have an accurate account of this...I'd appreciate your answers...Thanks...Horace in NC.
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:19:08 EST Hi my name is Hope, I am 9 years old and in the third grade. I am doing a science project on eastern bluebirds. I have been interested in bluebirds since I was 4 years old. My mom and I try to get bluebirds every year. We've only ever got threefledges. since I started this project I have found alot of useful information. But one of the things I am looking for is some kind of fledge report for the years 1998,1999,and 2000. also I know that the bluebird has been in trouble for about 100 years and I know alot of thereasons for the decline in there population, but what i would like to know is what was the population before it started to go down and much has it improved since all the things people have been doing inthe last 10 or 20 years? Please Don't tell me to contact the National bluebird society I have been tring many different peple and nobody seems to get back to me or mail just gets sent back. I would appreciate any help you could give me. I am running out of time and my project will be due soon. Thank-you very much Hope
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:21:01 -0600 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas Hi Hope, Population trends explode or bust depending on nestboxes supplied. For example in 1960 in Southwestern Manitoba, John Lane decided to try to bring bluebirds back to his area. He had not seen a nesting pair of bluebirds in 30 years. He worked with the Brandon Junior Birders and they built boxes and placed them in 1960 and added to them in 1961 they saw their first bluebirds in 1962 and 4 boxes were used by Eastern Bluebirds and fifteen boxes by Mountain bluebirds. The children installed a total of 749 nestboxes for 1963 and 34 boxes were used by Eastern Bluebirds and 36 contained Mountain bluebirds. The effort increased and by 1974 over 200 boys were monitoring boxes and between 1970 and 1974 one man (John Lane) banded 10,433 Mountain bluebirds and 1,975 Eastern bluebirds and 54 hybrids of these two distinct species. This area had gone 30 years without a recorded nesting of either species of bluebirds and in basically 12 years was fledging thousands of bluebirds. By 1979 they had installed 5,051 nestboxes. Population trends of bluebirds nationwide can be found by searching the Christmas Bird Count lists on each of these species. There is also a Breeding Bird Survey that is done nation wide. Can others on the list do a search and try to pull up the up to date sites for Hope?? Write to me personally Hope if you need more information. Keith Kridler
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:45:14 -0600 To Hope again, Others may want to delete. The North American Bluebird Society was formed in 1978 their annual nesting report was for 1980. There were 292 trail monitors that year who had 13,415 nestboxes available 8,355 bluebirds were fledged in the eastern states,2,068 in the Midwest states and 787 fledged in the western states. It might be interesting to note that this was the year that Mount St. Helen's volcano erupted and 660 of 848 bluebirds in nestboxes starved in Montana due to ash covering all food in the area. To others on the list out of 5,366 nestboxes located in Western states only three nestboxes were reported used by the House Sparrow! Over 10% of the Midwest boxes were used by the House Sparrow and 8% of the boxes in the eastern states. KK
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 14:36:52 -0600 To Hope once again, By 1990 trail monitors had jumped to over 1,600 and were checking over 37,747 nestboxes. They fledged a total of 64,192 bluebirds that year although some of the larger trails failed to get their reports in on time. By 1997 trails had increased to over 2,000. Nestboxes totaled 41,782 and total bluebirds fledged was 82,233. This year they included a total of 28 species that nested in trail monitors nestboxes and this overall total was 110,343 young birds fledged which included the three species of bluebirds! The following is the first page of chapter 10 "How to build a Bluebird Trail" from the book Song Birds in your Garden by John K. Terres printed in 1953 and this chapter was added at the second printing in 1968. This chapter is only 10 pages long and is what really got me started on my bluebird trail.KK I had known that our eastern bluebird, symbol of happiness and eternal spring, had been declining in numbers for 75 years; records kept by American ornithologists and bird watchers had proved that. But I was not prepared for the shocking news that came after the winter of 1957-58. During that season of unusually cold weather in the South-called by bird watchers the year of disaster-bluebirds, robins, hermit thrushes, phoebes, and other songbirds that winter there had starved or were frozen to death by the thousands. Bluebirds were hardest hit. Most birds can stand unbelievable cold if they are well fed. But with the ground and trees coated with ice or snow through much of the winter, the bluebirds' foods of wild berries and insects were unavailable to them. People found their frozen bodies scattered over the ground from Ohio east to Virginia, and from Tennessee through the Carolina's to Florida, the eastern bluebird's main wintering areas. An estimated 1/3 to 1/2 of the entire eastern bluebird population was destroyed. Perhaps most of the survivors were those that had learned to come to bird feeders for the favored dried currants, raisins, and chopped peanuts. At Chapel Hill, N.C. I had found I could help them in winter by giving them a doughy paste which they loved; I mixed bacon drippings or suet with peanut butter, corn meal, and flour, add chopped nuts or currants and stuck it in the rough bark of trees or put it in my suspended bird-feeding sticks. I knew that feeding bluebirds in winter could help them, but it could not overcome the widespread diminishing effect on their numbers due to the six harsh winters which followed the disastrous winter of 1957-58. Unusual winter cold in the South continued to kill bluebirds until their population reached its lowest point in history during the spring of 1963. People who loved them and who watched them return in thinning numbers in the spring were aghast. how long could the bluebird, so vulnerable in winter, survive? I decided to help them in the most effective way they could be helped; along with others, who were doing something about their plight, I would build a bluebird trail! John K. Terres The rest of the article tells how to build a trail but those are some of the numbers and years that you need. Keith Kridler
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:32:48 -0500 Dear Hope, I don't think I can give you exactly the kind of information you want, but I can tell you what I've learned from my own experience. I've been monitoring about 60 Bluebird houses in our town (Sunapee NH) since 1992. In 1998 my houses fledged 45 chicks, in 1999 they fledged 55, and in 2000 they fledged 63. I should add that my 60 houses are arranged at 30 different sites, with a pair of houses (15 feet apart) at each site. Tree Swallows almost always take ONE house at each site, but never both. I'd say that Bluebirds have been in trouble for about 50 years, not 100. Their worst years were in the 50's. When I was your age, back in the 30s, they were still very common where we lived in Mazzzchusetts. I think their troubles probably started around the 40's. Everyone seems to agree that they're making good progress all over the country, thanks to the fact that thousands of people like you have put up millions of houses. Here in New Hampshire they're still struggling, but in many of the more southern states they apparently are quite common again. Many states have them around 12 months of the year. We never see them between November and March or April up here. You didn't mention where you live. Let me know if you have any more questions. ----- Original Message ----- From: Beaufranhope"at"aol.com Hi my name is Hope, I am 9 years old and in the third grade. I am doing a
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 17:03:58 EST In a Message dated 1/13/01 4:59:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, Brucemac1 writes: Hello Hope, I've just read your e-mail and some of the responses that have been sent to you. I'm presuming that your note was originally sent to someone on the "Bluebird List". My name is also Bruce. I've been monitoring Bluebird nest boxes for some 15 years. I started quite modestly (6 boxes) and am currently involved with a county conservation group that manages approx 250 boxes. I live near the north shore of Lake Erie, some 30 miles south of Detroit. (only area in Canada were one must go north to get to the USA..!!) For reasons that I cannot explain, we have Bluebirds here, year 'round. In the winter, they seem to congregate in heavily wooded areas. We perform a reasonably accurate count of our boxes' production. That includes maintaining an egg count, fledge counts, etc. I should be able to get you our results over the past four years. It may take me until the first of the week, but I'll be happy to share with you. With regard to the near demise of the Eastern Bluebird, my humble opinion is that we, ourselves, the North American population, can take most of the blame. 1. Our ancestors brought Weaver Finches (English, or House sparrows) and starlings to our shores some 160 years ago. These two species compete for an ever-dwindling supply of natural nesting cavities. 2. Millions of us continue to make it tougher by feeding commercial birdseed mixes, bread and cracker crumbs and other foodscraps to these 'foreigners' . This attracts the sparrows/starlings and helps them flourish. 3. We setup nestboxes for our Bluebird friends, (perfect for the sparrows too) then neglect to monitor them. The sparrows deprive bluebirds of nest-sites and multply their own populations while exerting additional downward pressure on already threatened Bluebird numbers. 4. In suburban areas where Bluebirds might nest if they could find natural cavities in which to build their nests, ...we perform like 'Beavers' and cut down dead trees. Dead trees, where Woodpeckers excavate their own new nests each year. Most Woodpeckers drill new holes each year. It was common for Bluebirds to use old Woodpecker holes. ...I could go on and on. As Pogo (Walt Kelly) once said, "I have seen the enemy, ..and he is Us.!! I will do my best to get what information we have to you within the next few days!! Bruce
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 14:25:23 -0800 (PST) I tried earlier to read the Best of Bluebird-l but could not get to the site
.. :( Nesting Schedule by Julie Zickefoose Nest building: 1-6 days Timetable for how long an average bluebird pair spends at each nesting stage: In some cases, you may not know the hatch date of the young, and may need to estimate their age. This table gives you some guidelines: Day 1: Bright coral-pink skin, eyes sealed, down in sparse tufts. Day 2-4: Wings, head, spine look bluish due to developing feathers under skin. Day 5-7: Feather sheaths begin to emerge on wings. Eyes still closed. Day 7: First feathers burst from tip of sheaths. Eyes open as slits. Brooding by female stops. Day 8-11: Eyes fully open. Feathers continue to burst sheaths. Day 11-12: Feathers of wing and tail reveal cobalt blue in males, duller
gray-blue in females. Female eastern bluebirds show white edging on outer Day 13: Cut-off date for box checks. Fully feathered young become increasingly active, and may fledge prematurely if box is opened. Day 14-22: Fledging and first flight. Empty nest soiled, flattened. Young remain in cover while parents bring food. Day 28 on: Fledglings fly strongly, following parents who feed them. Day 30 on: Fledglings feed unassisted. Try to keep written records. Even if you monitor a single box, it’s good to
keep records and not trust your memory. It’s important to know Date: Weather, time. Nest: Note inches of material, whether cup is lined, condition after fledging. Eggs: Number, whether warm. Young: Number, age (count hatch day as Day 1) condition. Parasites: Type, any measures taken. Fledglings: Number, date of fledging if known, post-fledging sightings. Comments: Presence of adults, competitors, behavioral notes, other observations. © Bird Watcher’s Digest • PO Box 110 • Marietta, OH Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 09:39:41 -0400 Between 8:00-9:00 pm last night I was able to witness 4 of my 5 bluebird babies fledge. What a sight to see!!!!!!!!! Them trying to determine if they really wanted to come out, mama and daddy encouraging them, flying in front of the door as if to say "we're waiting". I believe we missed seeing the first baby fledge, but was able to see the last 4. The first one that we got to see fly, flew out and to the left to a huge oak tree. The 2nd one, flew to the right and landed on the side of a telephone pole, hidden by a tree branch (took him a while to get to the large oak tree, but he/she finally made it). The 3rd one practically flew right at me and I believe landed on top of the house or the antennae. The 4th one too almost the same flight pattern as the 3rd and landed on the house. Daddy and mama came back a couple of times and checked out the house, so we weren't sure if we still had one in there or if they were checking to make sure they were all out. It got really dark after that, so we assumed we had missed the first one. When I went out to feed my blues their morning mealies, I whistled and mama came and landed on the wire. Daddy followed shortly after. I talked to them and told them great job, and proceeded to check out the house - no one left. The nest was all smushed down, so you can tell there was a lot of activity in there. I will pull the nest out tonight and hopefully mama and daddy will start building again. Daddy sure was checking out the other nest box last night while the babies were fledging, kind of like he was getting ready to nest again. I'm not sure how many other people on the list have been able to watch their babies fledge, but if you do - it gives you goosebumps and you find yourself encouraging the babies to come out just as much as mama and daddy are! Thanks and we have another 5 blue babies out in the world! Barb DeLong
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 12:47:23 -0700 We had three bluebirds to fledge on Monday (May 21), after 5 eggs were brooded. When the babies hatched, on May 21, the male put in about one or two appearances over about three days, and the female seemed to be feeding the newborns exclusively. Then, on the fifth day of hatching, we left town for two weeks, returning on May 19. When we arrived home, the birds were still apparently in the nest, and this time we saw only the male feeding, and saw no female at all. The male seemed to bring food every five minutes, and did not enter the box, but fed from the opening, while perched on the edge of the roof. Two of the three fledges few successfully to a fence or a tree. The third, several hours later, appeared unable to fly, by fluttered for short distances along the ground, near the fence. The male bird continued attempting to feed this one, but only occasionally. While the female was brooding her five eggs during April (first egg was laid on April 13), we seldom saw the male. However, at one point, another bluebird pair appeared on a fence near the house, and the male not only appeared with the new pair (along with the brooding female), but he and the new male struggled, apparently fighting, up and down and to the ground. At the point of the appearance of the new pair, I put up another box, about 150 feet away, and the new pair immediatedly checked out the box., but no building occurred then. When we returned from out of town on May 19, it was apparent that a female was building in the new box, while in the old box, only the male was feeding, as I have described. This male would occasionally sit near the new box, and wing-wave to the building female, in between his frantic feeding chores. After the fledging, the nest-building female appeared once, looked at one of the new babies that was hiding near the top of a wooden board fence, and then flew off, without attempting to feed. On the evening of the fledging, a very hard rain storm came with almost two inches of rain. Now, two days after fledging, I do not see the bluebirds at all, and there are as yet no eggs in the new box, although the nest appears ready to receive eggs. I occasionally hear the bluebird warble in the distance, but I am not sure that I can hear any of the babies calling. When I removed the fledged nest late in the day of fledging (May 21), there was a foul oder from the nest, and underneath the layer of soiled droppings, there was an apparently dead bird (I saw a foot and a wing). I quickly buried the next, which was full also of insects. I am sending this report of my observations of these apparently unusual behaviors for anyone's comment on their observation, experience, or insight. I would also like to improve my bluebird successes, so any helpful suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, Sam Jones Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 13:40:01 -0700 The bluebird babies hatched on April 30 (not May 21, as erroneously put in original Message) Thanks, Sam Jones Original Message on May 23: We had three bluebirds to fledge on Monday (May 21), after 5 eggs were brooded. ...
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 08:00:02 -0400 This is our first year with a bluebird nest, and I have learned so much from reading all your posts (even passive mosquito control!!!). Yesterday we were privileged to watch all five of our baby bluebirds fledge. What a sight as they hesitated over taking flight into that huge world out there! They flew to a maple tree in our back yard, ane then later, after a rain storm, the parents were feeding them in another maple tree. =20 This morning, the parents don't seem very interested in feeding the fledglings, although they did take them some meal worms I put out. Their major interest seems to be in each other, and already this morning the female has entered the old nest a couple of times. We haven't had a chance to clean in out, but will dos so later today. Is in typical for them to be starting another nest so soon? I know that last summer, my daughter had a pair show up in mid-June with their fledglings, and after a couple of weeks they started a second nest. Mary Lou Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 09:15:41 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA I've seen baby bluebirds PERCH on the old nestbox, but never go INSIDE the old nestbox- I believe that is what is refered to as the "babies never go back to the nestbox". Once out of the nest, there ain't no goin' back....... . :-) Ah.... if the answer to this question was all we ever had to worry about!!! :-) H snip: NO young birds return to their nest once they have flown. (Does anyone know
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 08:00:50 -0500 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas Barn swallows will return to their nest for a few nights after they fledge on occasion. I video taped a young bluebird fledge nearly at dark at a friends box where the box was sitting on a large ledge or 1X 12 on top of a post. the young walked all around the porch and was repeatedly fed by the frantic adults. At dark the youngster hopped back into the nestbox with two other siblings and "returned" to the nest after fledging. Depends on your definition of fledging I guess :-) KK PS this nestbox was the steel top off of a bottle of welding gas and the birds entered the "box" through a vent hole in the cap. The opposite entrance was sealed with a piece of duct tape. This box was protected with an electric fence wire attached to the post. This man had 5 pairs of bluebirds one year and not one was in a real nestbox.
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 16:05:01 -0400 Today, our next door neighbor called me over and showed me a dead fledgling in her yard. We had found one a week ago. Both were males, and both had not a mark on them. I suspect pesticides. Two possibilities: 1) the Doom this same neighbor and I put down ten years ago, which, by this time would have spread across the yards entirely; and 2) perhaps the farmer who uses the field just across the road (about 100 yards from the nest box and closer to the trees which the adults and the fledglings are accustomed to use for perches when hunting; 3) I offered mealworms as they "called" for them during the time before and after hatching, then after fledging. I plan to check with the farmer to see if he has used pesticides recently, and I plan to check with nearby neighbors to see if they have. Any other thoughts? At this point, I'm considerably upset at the thought that I have lured bluebirds into my yard which has proved not to be a safe place. It may be time to think about taking down these nestboxes. Randy Jones
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 19:02:18 -0500 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas If you are not seeing a lot of other dead birds in your yard like Robins I doubt very seriously that the "Doom" you spread is a problem. Most of these BT type additives for the yard will only enhance what is already probably present. The field next to you is a possibility but like Hatch said a few weeks ago there are only a couple of insecticides that would be a problem and the farmer will tell you what or IF he used if you make it clear you are just after information and not persecution! Check and see what the neighbors are using. Mealworms fed will not have killed the young birds! We are simply cautioning against an "all you can eat" feeder and it may take YEARS of careful evaluation of these types of feeders for us to actually come to any conclusion! Careful record keeping of those feeding and those not feeding will help but really only if birds are banded and recovered or retrapped in large numbers. Birds can die from internal parasites quite rapidly and the sow bug is a carrier of one type of parasite that kills bluebirds on occasion. (VERY RARELY). Spilled antifreeze is deadly and very quickly will kill birds or other creatures. This sounds bad but if you pluck the poor bird you will sometimes see bruises or possibly a wound that did not bleed. They can pick up bacteria from eating flies or other insects at say a roadkill. Many animals or birds cannot have a completely working immune system when they are just weeks out of the nest. There is a disease called "limber neck" in poultry that is devastating to young birds. This can be picked up at spoiled meat as the buzzing insects will attract the attention of a bird just learning how to feed itself. This is another one of those cases where experiences learned are mostly painful for both the monitor and the birds themselves but should not force us to abandon the birds! KK
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 05:32:52 -0500 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas One other thing to look for when you find dead birds is to turn them over and check and see if they are heavily soiled around their vent opening. Diarrhea normally will stick to their feathers and is a sign that something was terribly wrong in their digestive system. It could be poison or viral or bacteria caused. If you have a strong poultry industry near you there is a remote possibility that you can take the bird for an autopsy and they will perform this for you as sometimes they want to know what diseases are showing up in the area that might get transferred into the commercial flocks of chickens. KK
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 16:36:03 -0500 I was just sitting at my kitchen table when I looked up to see a blue bird fluttering under the eaves of the house. It immediately turned and came staight towards the window! He hit the window - fortunately, the little fledgling was not flying very fast! My husband & I rushed outside. My dog had already retrieved the fledgling and took him to her bed. My husband took the bird and aside from a little lost look in the fledgling's eye - he looked ok. We stood there a moment with the fledling perched on his finger wondering what do we do now??!! We thought for a moment about bringing him in because of the rain, but I figured we really aren't qualified. My husband took him to a nearby tree and let him perch on a branch. Mama & Papa blue were watching the entire time. It took only minutes for Mama blue to come to the tree. She flew off and the little fledgling soon followed. I hope that being able to fly is a good sign that he wasn't injured too badly from the crash or the dog. Katie Lombardino
Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2001 21:12:44 -0400 Hello List, Well, I had all good news today while checking my trail, the 5 young in the Gilbertson are doing OK, they look to be about 10 or 11 days old. The wooden box 40 yards away that had House Sparrows is now empty, I successfully trapped both adults (one at a time) and cleaned the box, it had 5 eggs. I walked the 100 yards or so back to my car and put away the scraper I cleaned the box with and the bag I caught the HOSP in, and turned around to see the male Bluebird from the Gilbertson sitting on the now empty wooden box, as if HE had just vanquished the enemy. :) When I checked a different wooden box, the one that fledged 4 Bluebirds last weekend, I was wondering if they may have started on a second nest yet. It was empty, but the two adults showed up and got quite agitated with my being there, it's the first time I've seen a pair get defensive over an empty box. Or least I thought it was the box, there are three large elm trees opposite the box and I began to suspect the adults had the 4 young stashed up in one of those trees, which also could explain their behavior. I wanted to keep an eye on them to see if they'd show me where they were but I was busy dealing with the aforementioned House Sparrows at that time. The defensiveness of this pair is in sharp contrast to the pair that have the 5 young in the Gilbertson. As I also mentioned below, three times now I've checked that box since they've hatched and the parents are nowhere to be found while I check, but I had just watched them for a couple of hours bringing food to the box. They either trust me completely (not likely) or are way too passive. Dave Bagley ----- Original Message ----- Hello List, Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 12:39:51 -0400 Rick, et al, My GUESS is, - and it can only be a guess, - that your 6 young Bluebirds on the deck are just fine, and that the parent birds are looking after them in their own way, giving them what they need. The adults would probably like to entice (urge) them all up into a tree-top somewhere where they'd be less visible, but for now your deck is the next best thing. At least they're up off the ground. Within reasonable limits, these Bluebirds, young and old, are remarkably tough and weather-resistant critters. Bruce Burdett, SW NH blueburd"at"srnet.com
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 16:08:35 EDT Hi Kathy, Normally it takes close to a week before the young ones return to my yard, and for several days they still expect mom and dad to feed them even though they sit right there with the mealies right in front of them. :^) Got quite a chuckle yesterday ... two of them had one worm and were squabbling over it. Some things don't change when it comes to siblings! I have enjoyed my 4 baby blues the past couple of weeks. Sure is fun watching them try to catch a moth. Mom and dad have started the new nest and there are 2 eggs now... anxious to see how many there will be this time. Wishing you luck with your blues. Linda - Ind. Use what talents you possess,
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 23:00:05 -0400 Information from Don and Lillian Stokes : The Bluebird Book What is a Fledgling? A fledgling is a bird that is out of the nest but still dependent on it's parents for food. Leaving the Nest Nestling bluebirds instinctively know when to leave the nest. They become increasingly restless at the end of the nestling stage, moving about and stretching their wings. On the day of leaving, the parents may call from outside the nest and may not bring as much food, possibly as a kind of encouragement to fledge. Adult bluebirds do not have to teach their young how to fly; they can fly instinctively. their first flight can carry them 100 feet from the nest and in one reported case, 450 feet. They usually head for the nearest perch. This is why it is helpful if a bluebird box is placed so that it faces a nearby tree or shrub where fledglings can make their first landing. Usually all of the young leave the nest within an hour or two on the same day. Once the young leave the nest, they never again return that summer. Sometimes nestlings leave the nest before they are ready. This usually occurs when a predator threatens the nest. For example, a snake near an eastern bluebird nest caused the parents to give an alarm call, which in turn made the young jump from the nest cavity. In this instance, jumping out was safer that staying in the nest. Out of the nest, the young could hop into bushes for safety and the parents would feed them. Fledgling Behavior A fledglings's main concerns are safety and getting fed. For safety, a fledgling generally moves to treetops, well away from ground predators and where it can see for a distance. In contrast to the situation when it was in the nest, the fledgling now needs to make it whereabout known to the parents in order to be fed. After gathering food, the parents return to the general area of the young and then must find the specific location of each one. To aid them. the fledglings give a plaintive call at frequent intervals. However, a parent's warning call may stop them momentarily. It also behooves the fledglings to stay together, since this gives them more eyes to spot danger and parents approaching with food, and some assurance that they will not be out a feeding by one of their siblings. Thus, fledglings generally just sit in one place and call. They may also huddle together at night or during the day, possibly for warmth. They can look very forlorn at this stage and sometimes seem abandoned, since intervals between feedings can be long. But you must resist the urge to help them in any way at this stage, for in the majority of cases they are being well cared for by their parents. Often the parents may lead the young to an area away from the nest for a time, possibly to a spot where greater safety or a greater abundance of food. Their trips from food to young are thus shortened, and they can better look out for their safety. Because of this, you may have difficulty locating a family of bluebirds once the young have fledged. A Helping Hand - Beak Which parent feeds the fledglings varies with each brood and with individual pairs. In some cases, both parents participate. In other cases, just the male may feed the fledglings while the female starts building the nest and laying the eggs for a second or third brood. In one case, a male eastern bluebird was known to feed his own fledglings by himself and also those from a neighboring territory whose mother had disappeared and whose father had re mated with another female. This male took care of 7 fledglings in all. In many other cases during the second and third broods, fledglings are fed by juvenile birds from the earlier broods. Sometimes these helpers can even be adult birds that were born to the same parents the previous year. No More Free Lunch By the second week, the fledglings begin to follow the parents about. This may assure that they get fed more often. It also may give them experience in where to look for food. After three weeks, the fledglings begin to gather food on their own. This is done mostly by gleaning insects from perches or by picking them up while hopping around the ground. After the fourth week, the fledglings develop the typical bluebird feeding behavior of dropping to the ground after spotting an insect from a perch. In about their fifth week the young may be able to catch insects out of the air or by hovering and then dropping down. Starting in the fourth and fifth week, the parents gradually stop feeding the young. Finally, after a fledgling phase of about 5 weeks, the young are on their own. Life After Fledgling Juvenile birds often remain with their parents, or in the general vicinity of their territory, throughout the summer and into fall. Occasionally, families of bluebirds will return to their nest cavity in fall for a day or so, often entering the nest briefly, or even bringing in a few strands of nest material. Why they do this is not known.
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:44:56 -0400 Hello, I have a question concerning fledging, I have a box with EABB in it. Yesterday, one fledged at about 12 or 12:30. I expected the other 3 to leave shortly, but as of now, which is 4:45 the next day they still have not fledged. Has this ever happened to anyone else and should I be at all concerned? I peeked in the box without opening to see if they were still in there and alive, it would appear so from what I could see. Becky in Ohio
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 23:48:30 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. I didn't see any on-List answer to your questions and fledges are sometimes tricky (any off-List posts on this subject should really be sent to the List). Most of the fledges on my trail have nestlings leave within the daylight hours of the same day. However, sometimes it takes 2 daylight periods (noon of one day to noon of the next day). I've only had a few boxes which took 3 daylight periods. I make cautious closed-box visits to sites that are due to fledge and will sometimes find a nestling in trouble. Quietly sit, watch and listen. Are the parents feeding the rest of the chicks in nearby trees? What do you hear and see when the parents bring food to the nestbox? How many chicks? Any signal of distress? Was there a runt in the batch which might just need an extra day's growth in the box? Each year I get a nestling or two hopelessly tangled at its leg in the nesting material. Doesn't happen very often, but it's something to watch for. I've got a little female at the rehabber's right now recovering from a badly swollen leg which had been tightly caught. I make a habit of visiting nestboxes due to fledge and saw that this site had already partially fledged with the parents taking food to both the trees and nestbox. But the chick in the nestbox wasn't meeting the parent at the hole to take food . . . the parent was completely entering the box (a signal that the nestling could be tangled). However, there was no distress cheeping coming from the nestbox so I left things as they were that 2nd daylight period of the partial fledge. The 3rd daylight period since the fledge began, the parents were no longer taking food to the nestbox and I opened it up and found the tangled nestling. Be alert, but be very patient. Matt & Becky Charavell wrote: Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:54:07 -0400 Linda: If you don't mind me asking. If you are doing nest replacements for parasites (and I am only assuming that you are), what are you putting in the nesting material that could possibly tangle a fledgling's foot or leg? If you use only dry pine needles or grass clipping, or even just plain straw, there would be no way for this to happen. Or at least it seems that it would be impossible. Thanks, Robert ----- Original Message ----- Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. ... Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 01:43:00 -0400 Although we often hear of the loss of bluebird eggs and chicks inside nest boxes, a large percentage of birds are lost after fledge as well. It seems what happens after the birds fledge is beyond our control. But, the condition those birds are in when they do fledge is somewhat within our control. The longer the fledge date is delayed, the stronger the chicks will be, the better they will be able to fly, and, the better chance they will have of surviving. The reason birds can fly right out of the nest box upon fledge is that they exercise their wings by 'flying in place' inside the nest box. The more days they perform these exercises, the stronger they become and the better they can fly on their maiden flight. One additional day of development will increase their chance of survival tremendously. Two or more additional days of development inside the nest box before fledge gives the birds a huge advantage. An over heated nest box is one reason chicks may vacate the nest box before they can fly well. It seems quite natural that chicks inside a poorly constructed, poorly ventilated, hot nest box will fledge sooner than those inside a cool, well ventilated nest box with a double roof. A couple holes drilled in the sides of the nest box is about as good as having no ventilation at all. Sit in your parked car with the windows cracked an inch and see how long you can take the heat on a sunny day when temperatures are in the 80's or 90's. After sweltering for an hour, roll the windows half way down and see how much cooler it becomes. This is similar to replacing 'ventilation' holes with two long ventilation slots of at least a quarter inch wide on two sides of the nest box. Then, park your car under a tree while the windows are rolled half way down, the equivalent of adding gobs of roof overhang or a second roof to a nest box with good ventilation. I doesn't matter if you live in Connecticut, Minnesota, Montana, or Georgia. If your nest boxes don't have about two inches or more of roof overhang on all four sides, they have only a few holes for ventilation, and they are mounted in full sun, your birds are suffering the same as you will if you sit inside your car on a hot sunny day with the windows cracked an inch or less. The chicks inside that hot nest box are fully aware it is up to 30 degrees cooler outside the nest box. If you were one of those chicks sitting inside that sweltering box, do you think you might fledge a day or more sooner than if you were living inside a cool and comfortable nest box enjoying the easy life? Gary Springer Writing from the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains in Northeast Georgia, further north than most of South Carolina and a bit of North Carolina. Most extensive source of Bluebird information http://audubon-omaha.org/bbbox/bestofbbml/bblindx.htm Real Bird Homes www.realbirdhomes.com
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 08:50:31 EDT Good Morning All: We hope we have successfully seen our first ever EABL family enter the wide world on their own. Our female had three eggs, two of which hatched. We were feeding mealworms - about 10-15 twice a day and saw the parents feeding the mealies to the hatchlings. The hatchilings were about 16-17 days old on Thursday. Our sunset here is about 8:50 p.m. I went to the store about 8 p.m. (all had been fine before and even witnessed the parents feeding the hatchlings), and arrived home about 8:45 p.m. When I arrived home I noticed that our two cats (indoor) were fixated at the patio window (the side of the house where the EABL box is) and looking up. Upon checking, I found that both bb parents were flying around in circles almost going into the patio door. Thinking they might be seeing their reflection, I closed the blinds and the blinds of the windows on the same side of the house. They continued this behavior. I then went outside. Since our house is one story, I checked the roof from a distance and could see no other birds, fledglings or otherwise. Since it was just about dark by then, I did not pursue it any further. Friday morning I found Daddy Blue sitting on top of the nesting box. I went out to give him mealies but he flew off. I have not seen any of the EABLs since. I have checked the nest (and cleaned it out), the unhatched egg was in it and some dandruff type material, but no babies. There is no suspicion of any predator getting involved. It appears that they fledged late in the evening. My question is: Is this normal for them to fledge so late in the evening? I assume that the behavior of the adults was because the fledglings were in the area. Another question: Do the parents with their offspring come back at all after fledging? Should I continue to put the mealies out? It was so much fun watching these birds over the past 7 or 8 weeks. Now I really feel lost without them around. The yard seems so quiet. We live about 15 miles south of Lake Ontario and east of Niagara Falls in New York State. Does anyone know if this pair might nest again this year? By the way, we were successful in using the monofilament line (Larry's arrangement). Our box had originally started with EABLs, then the HOSPS started to take over. We put the line on the box and the EABLs returned and it appears successfully nested. The HOSPS never bothered them again. I kept another bb box up with a Huber trap in it and have been catching the HOSPS. Thanks to all of you bluebirders out there who have written your suggestions and forwarded them to others to read. They have been most helpful. The internet sure is a wonderful way to spread information in a quick and efficient manner. Have a wonderful rest of the summer. Judy
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 09:27:40 -0400 I have received replies to my post titled "Success after fledge/heat " Before going on to specific points, I would like to make a comment about those looking for "scientific" or "written" "proof" First, because something was written by a nationally famous birder printed by a large publisher and endorsed by a national birding organization and accepted widely among birders doesn't make it true or indicate that any "scientific" study had been done. We all make mistakes and we are all in the stage of discovery. If you need scientific proof, I believe you are in the wrong hobby. Even those ideas commonly promulgated by the large birding organizations are most often NOT backed by "scientific proof". In fact, does anyone know of an aspect, "fact" or idea about bluebirds that can be backed by actual "scientific" proof? Continuing, A) One questioned the parallel I drew between heat building up inside a car and heat building up inside a nest box with insufficient ventilation. The person that questioned this parallel also seemed to think that insufficient ventilation and resultant excessive heat in nest boxes was not a problem in the more northern states. In my opinion based on what temperature ranges birds can have success when nesting in dry nest boxes, excessive heat in a nest box is far more of a problem than cold even in North Dakota. Freezing cold weather below zero, in the single digits, or many successive days when temperatures don't go above 25 degrees can result in failure for the first nest attempts in early spring in northern states regardless of nest box construction. But, the birds that fail in these early nest attempts go about building new nests and laying eggs very soon after the failure so there is not really a material loss. Further, after about June 10 cold is of little or no consequence while heat is a serious threat throughout the balance of the breeding season if nest boxes have insufficient ventilation. Nesting bluebirds can quite nicely get by cold spells in the month of June unless temperatures remain in the low to mid twenties or lower for several consecutive days. Even if birds are lost during colder periods in the month of June, death is normally caused by insufficient food caused by poor weather combined with wet nests, not lack of warmth inside nest boxes. I was stationed at Grand Forks Air Force Base in Grand Forks North Dakota and although there were some chilly days after mid or early June, I don't think the cold could have possibly threatened a nest attempt if the nest was inside a dry nest box. B) Another questioned how a chick approaching the stage of development required for fledge would know it was cooler on the outside of a nest box with insufficient ventilation on hot and sunny summer days when temperature differences could be 20 degrees or more. C) Still another questioned my assertion that chicks exercised their wings before fledge. I described this exercise as "flying in place". When someone exercises by running-in-place no distance is traveled. Similarly, when I coined the term flying-in-place I referred to an exercise of the wing muscles during which the bird gains no altitude nor travels any distance but does vigorously flap the wings. I would appreciate anyone's help in confirming or refuting those ideas in A, B and C. Thank you, Gary Springer Original Message: The reason birds can fly right out of the nest box upon fledge is that they exercise their wings by 'flying in place' inside the nest box. The more days they perform these exercises, the stronger they become and the better they can fly on their maiden flight. One additional day of development will increase their chance of survival tremendously. Two or more additional days of development inside the nest box before fledge gives the birds a huge advantage. An over heated nest box is one reason chicks may vacate the nest box before they can fly well. It seems quite natural that chicks inside a poorly constructed, poorly ventilated, hot nest box will fledge sooner than those inside a cool, well ventilated nest box with a double roof. A couple holes drilled in the sides of the nest box is about as good as having no ventilation at all. Sit in your parked car with the windows cracked an inch and see how long you can take the heat on a sunny day when temperatures are in the 80's or 90's. After sweltering for an hour, roll the windows half way down and see how much cooler it becomes. This is similar to replacing 'ventilation' holes with two long ventilation slots of at least a quarter inch wide on two sides of the nest box. Then, park your car under a tree while the windows are rolled half way down, the equivalent of adding gobs of roof overhang or a second roof to a nest box with good ventilation. It doesn't matter if you live in Connecticut, Minnesota, Montana, or Georgia. If your nest boxes don't have about two inches or more of roof overhang on all four sides, they have only a few holes for ventilation, and they are mounted in full sun, your birds are suffering the same as you will if you sit inside your car on a hot sunny day with the windows cracked an inch or less. The chicks inside that hot nest box are fully aware it is up to 30 degrees cooler outside the nest box. If you were one of those chicks sitting inside that sweltering box, do you think you might fledge a day or more sooner than if you were living inside a cool and comfortable nest box enjoying the easy life? Gary Springer Writing from the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains in Northeast Georgia, further north than most of South Carolina and a bit of North Carolina. Most extensive source of Bluebird information http://audubon-omaha.org/bbbox/bestofbbml/bblindx.htm Real Bird Homes www.realbirdhomes.com
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 10:30:53 EDT Dot: Thanks for your response. It is nice to have the advice and thoughts of experienced bluebirders! You might like to know that after I wrote my email this morning, Daddy Blue showed up on the platform feeder where I fed them the mealworms. He waited on a tree while I put some out this morning and then he got several in his beak and flew west to where there are some trees. So, apparently "our family" is in the area. I'll keep the list advised as to whether they start another nesting. Judy
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 11:33:12 -0400 Chris Statton, Gary, First, as I've come to always say here, please keep in mind my information is not "scientific". In July, 1999, this area experienced approximately three (3) weeks of temperatures between 95 - 105 (Farenheit). For this area (41.5 north), that is extreme heat. The nestboxes in the yard sit in full sun all day. Using a single-probe digital thermometer I tested roof temperatures and in-box temps of two (2) nestboxes. I'll simply label them, here, as Box 1 and Box 2. Both boxes were made of 3-quarter inch finished pine. Both boxes have 3" roof overhangs on each side. Both boxes have 5" roof overhang on the front. Both are of un-painted. Both mounted at the same height. The differences: Box 1 had 3 one-half inch diameter ventilation holes on each side, directly under the roof overhang. (The holes on each side were lined up to be directly across from each other.) The box had 4 floor vents and had no nest in it. Box 2: had three (3) one-half inch x 4" ventilation slots (one on each side and another on the front). This box also had 4 floor vents and no nest in it. I applied 'artificial-shade' roofs to these boxes after recording in-grass ground temps of 100-107 degrees and having read that in-box temps can exceed ambient temps by 20 degrees. There is a widening gap of 1"-3" (back of roof to front) between the real roof and the shade roof. I tied a marker onto the cord/wire of the thermometer probe (toward it being at the same place - i.e. height from floor - inside the nestbox) and fed it, to the marker, through a ventilation hole. The probe was about 3" off the floor of the box. Then, noting time of day (so each check was at the same time of day), sun exposure, wind (virtually non-existent), and humidity (all of which remained constant throughout these weeks) I did some temp tests on these boxes. (Note, the only substantial difference in these boxes was the size of the ventilation holes.) The probe was left in the box until the digital read-out remained essentially the same (i.e. only varying by one one-tenth of a degree) for 15 minutes. Box 1: temp on top of shade roof: 104 104 103 temp inside box: 89.4 91.4 93 temp between shade roof and real roof: 90.2 90.2 90.3 Box 2: temp on top of shade roof: 104 107 105 temp inside box: 87.1 88.9 87.5 temp between shade roof and real roof: 90.1 90.2 90.2 With just a little basic math (pi r-squared and length x width), the area of ventilation of the holes v. the slots is obvious. The opening of a one-half inch vent hole is 0.19625 square inches. The total openings of six of these holes is 1.17 square". Each one-half inch x 4" ventilation slot has 2 square inches of opening. Three such vents total 6 square inches (v. a total of 1.17 sq" with the drilled holes) or 5x the ventilation of the drilled holes. Ever since, I have made sure the boxes have the larger ventilation slots (with sealable covers for cold snaps) and artificial-shade roofs - some now even have artificial-shade side panels on their west sides. Admittedly, a big absence of info (I said this isn't scientific) is what were temps inside boxes without shade roofs with the varying sizes of ventilation holes. However, if in-box temps with shade roofs and large ventilation holes stayed in the upper 80s, I can only imagine (yes, imagine since I don't know) what the temps would have been with no shade and tiny ventilation holes. Yes, I'm a big advocate of both shade and ventilation. As for the "flying in place" inside the box . one of the vendors at the NABS conference a few weeks ago was playing and selling a video compiled of literally hundreds of hours of recording inside nextboxes (recorded over several years). (Yep, I just had to have one of those tapes!) Anyhow, in spite of cramped quarters those little goobers were indeed doing wing flapping inside the box. Not a full flying in place, of course, but lots of wing flapping. In terms of how babies would know it is cooler outside than in the box. I don't know that I'd say they "know". However, since humans often jump out of windows of burning buildings - not necessarily knowing or thinking that outside is better. They just know that inside isn't good and they want/need to get away from it. Ants on hot metal may not have any knowledge of where cooler is, they just keep running until they get away from the heat. Sorry, I know we've been told not to give any unscientific information and personal observations on this list, but I just can't fathom why we should even bother having a list without them.
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 12:03:02 -0400 Gary and everyone, Check out http://www.buteobooks.com/bna.html. About 2/3 of the way down the page you'll find #381 which is the species account for Eastern Bluebird. It is jam packed with scientific information about this species with about 2 3/4 pages worth of bibliography in very small type. Surely all those researchers can't be wrong, so please let's not disparage their work without reading and checking it out. Brenda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net ...
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 12:40:05 -0500 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas A bluebird 18-19 days old will show almost no tail feathers when it flies. Since it has no rudder they tend to fly in nearly a straight line and can only fly in large sweeping turns. An older sibling or fledgling will have the longer pointed wings of and adult where as the 18-19 day old juvenile will have short rounded wings. Older siblings can maneuver like adult bluebirds and are capable of sharp turns. If the young bluebird is chasing after the adult and begging for food then it is not the 18-19 day old youngster. For about a week the adults will have to chase after the youngsters and feed them where they sit. After this first week (or a little less) the young begin to chase the adults begging for food. I believe I just read where the earliest James Hartshorne ever saw a young bluebird actually pick up and eat food on it's own was a young eastern bluebird 26 days old. Bluebirds as young as 36 days old have been seen feeding other younger bluebirds. Bluebirds travel over fairly large areas and the male and youngster you are seeing might have come from several miles away. Without banding birds we are only guessing when we see anther bird! KK
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 10:53:00 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Gary, you made some points which I believe are true, generally overlooked, and not yet studied . . . the effects of heat distress on nestlings and survival. In my opinion, there are other aspects to consider beyond box ventilation (which merely cools the surface of the nestling cluster). All of us have seen overheated birds perched on a limb in hot weather (panting) with their wings held out from their bodies to cool off. It is my understanding this wing-spreading and panting are the birds' main methods of cooling themselves. All of you who are using small diameter boxes should perform this non-scientific experiment: 1) Draw the floor space of your boxes on a piece of paper. During 1999 I had written to this List about the horrible conditions I had seen on my trail during 1998 using standard small boxes (and my boxes hang in shady trees!). But very little interest was shown in the subject at the time and I, therefore, assumed that my trail in So. Calif. had a much hotter environment than the rest of the nation so I went about my own business of building larger (mansion) boxes for my trail. It doesn't take scientific studies to know that five or six feathered chicks in a 3" diameter box during the summer heat is going to cause heat distress (regardless of the number and size of ventilation holes). Place your hand over the cluster of two-week-old nestlings on a hot day. At two weeks, a full clutch of five or six chicks already covers the full floor space . . . and they will be even more crowded during those critical days prior to the fledge. Without the ability to spread their wings from their bodies, how are they to keep themselves sufficiently cool? Gary Springer wrote: It seems what happens after the birds fledge is beyond our control. But, ...
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 14:18:42 -0400 Hi Brenda, With all due respect, I do not see how I have "disparaged" anyones work. Nor do I see how the web page you referred me to shows there is a large body of "scientific fact" surrounding bluebirds. Would you, or anyone else on list, please describe what is meant by "scientific fact", this level of "proof" that books meet but which my writing falls short of? What is surprising about all of this is that there is nothing new about what I have written. Gary Springer ----- Original Message ----- I have received replies to my post titled "Success after fledge/heat " Before going on to specific points, I would like to make a comment about those looking for "scientific" or "written" "proof" First, because something was written by a nationally famous birder printed by a large publisher and endorsed by a national birding organization and accepted widely among birders doesn't make it true or indicate that any "scientific" study had been done. We all make mistakes and we are all in the stage of discovery. If you need scientific proof, I believe you are in the wrong hobby. Even those ideas commonly promulgated by the large birding organizations are most often NOT backed by "scientific proof". In fact, does anyone know of an aspect, "fact" or idea about bluebirds that can be backed by actual "scientific" proof? Continuing, A) One questioned the parallel I drew between heat building up inside a car and heat building up inside a nest box with insufficient ventilation. The person that questioned this parallel also seemed to think that insufficient ventilation and resultant excessive heat in nest boxes was not a problem in the more northern states. In my opinion based on what temperature ranges birds can have success when nesting in dry nest boxes, excessive heat in a nest box is far more of a problem than cold even in North Dakota. Freezing cold weather below zero, in the single digits, or many successive days when temperatures don't go above 25 degrees can result in failure for the first nest attempts in early spring in northern states regardless of nest box construction. But, the birds that fail in these early nest attempts go about building new nests and laying eggs very soon after the failure so there is not really a material loss. Further, after about June 10 cold is of little or no consequence while heat is a serious threat throughout the balance of the breeding season if nest boxes have insufficient ventilation. Nesting bluebirds can quite nicely get by cold spells in the month of June unless temperatures remain in the low to mid twenties or lower for several consecutive days. Even if birds are lost during colder periods in the month of June, death is normally caused by insufficient food caused by poor weather combined with wet nests, not lack of warmth inside nest boxes. I was stationed at Grand Forks Air Force Base in Grand Forks North Dakota and although there were some chilly days after mid or early June, I don't think the cold could have possibly threatened a nest attempt if the nest was inside a dry nest box. B) Another questioned how a chick approaching the stage of development required for fledge would know it was cooler on the outside of a nest box with insufficient ventilation on hot and sunny summer days when temperature differences could be 20 degrees or more. C) Still another questioned my assertion that chicks exercised their wings before fledge. I described this exercise as "flying in place". When someone exercises by running-in-place no distance is traveled. Similarly, when I coined the term flying-in-place I referred to an exercise of the wing muscles during which the bird gains no altitude nor travels any distance but does vigorously flap the wings. I would appreciate anyone's help in confirming or refuting those ideas in A, B and C. Thank you, Gary Springer Original Message: Although we often hear of the loss of bluebird eggs and chicks inside nest boxes, a large percentage of birds are lost after fledge as well. It seems what happens after the birds fledge is beyond our control. But, the condition those birds are in when they do fledge is somewhat within our control. The longer the fledge date is delayed, the stronger the chicks will be, the better they will be able to fly, and, the better chance they will have of surviving. The reason birds can fly right out of the nest box upon fledge is that they exercise their wings by 'flying in place' inside the nest box. The more days they perform these exercises, the stronger they become and the better they can fly on their maiden flight. One additional day of development will increase their chance of survival tremendously. Two or more additional days of development inside the nest box before fledge gives the birds a huge advantage. An over heated nest box is one reason chicks may vacate the nest box before they can fly well. It seems quite natural that chicks inside a poorly constructed, poorly ventilated, hot nest box will fledge sooner than those inside a cool, well ventilated nest box with a double roof. A couple holes drilled in the sides of the nest box is about as good as having no ventilation at all. Sit in your parked car with the windows cracked an inch and see how long you can take the heat on a sunny day when temperatures are in the 80's or 90's. After sweltering for an hour, roll the windows half way down and see how much cooler it becomes. This is similar to replacing 'ventilation' holes with two long ventilation slots of at least a quarter inch wide on two sides of the nest box. Then, park your car under a tree while the windows are rolled half way down, the equivalent of adding gobs of roof overhang or a second roof to a nest box with good ventilation. It doesn't matter if you live in Connecticut, Minnesota, Montana, or Georgia. If your nest boxes don't have about two inches or more of roof overhang on all four sides, they have only a few holes for ventilation, and they are mounted in full sun, your birds are suffering the same as you will if you sit inside your car on a hot sunny day with the windows cracked an inch or less. The chicks inside that hot nest box are fully aware it is up to 30 degrees cooler outside the nest box. If you were one of those chicks sitting inside that sweltering box, do you think you might fledge a day or more sooner than if you were living inside a cool and comfortable nest box enjoying the easy life? Gary Springer Writing from the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains in Northeast Georgia, further north than most of South Carolina and a bit of North Carolina. Most extensive source of Bluebird information http://audubon-omaha.org/bbbox/bestofbbml/bblindx.htm Real Bird Homes www.realbirdhomes.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brenda Best" jabbest"at"americu.net ...
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 15:29:51 -0700 Brenda- Gary has made it very clear that he does not want to hear anything that refutes what he claims. I was trying to discuss this with him off-list but he wants no part of that. I feel it is important- especially to the newer folks on the list- that we make very clear what is our opinion and what is "fact". Ann Knudson raised some very valid questions about the original post and I had raised many of the same points. Literature and scientific studies form the basis of what we are doing and I feel very strongly that we recognize them. Will we accept everything we read? Hopefully not, because most of us are thinking beings. But any "history", be it of the world or of bluebirding, tells us where we have been and, hopefully, leads us to where we are going. As I tried to point out to Gary, Bruce Burdett firmly stated that pairing is the answer to Tree Swallow takeovers, yet he was open-minded enough to recognize that this is probably a regional phenomenon, after he read posts from those of us for whom this has not worked. Linda Violett is trying to set up a scientific study of a different box design to deter House Sparrows. She is willing to have her theories subjected to the input of others. That's what is so great about this list- people will share, rethink and revise some ideas when they look at what others have to say. Let's hope that the majority of list members continue to do just that. Judy Mellin ----- Original Message ----- From: Brenda Best jabbest"at"americu.net ... Fledging and Fledglings - after they leave the nest (Part 3) |
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