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Bluebird feeding - planting (Part 3)In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website:
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 15:57:54 -0400 Hopefully someone on the list can help me. They were about 5 feet tall - red/pink stalks with these green berries that
turned black after a while. The leaves are green. The most fascinating thing is
the color of the stalks and stems that the berries are on. I have pictures if
anyone would like to see and help us out. Thanks! Barb DeLong Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 16:21:11 -0400 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 16:20:31 -0400 Sounds like a description of Poke weed. If it is, the blues love the berries,
but they are supposedly poisonous to human beings. Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 13:42:35 -0700 Dear Barb, Diane and friends, Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 18:02:29 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA Poke (Phytolacca americana) is one of my all time favorite plants. The roots are a very powerful antibiotic - it is like giving the immune system a "kick in the behind". However, one would only take four drops from a tincture made from the roots rather than 35 to 120 drops from all other herbs made into tinctures. BTW: the roots are huge. The meat of the berry is NOT poisonous, but the seeds are. If you dry the berry and swallow it hole, it is a wonderful anti- inflammatory for arthritis. The seeds, because they are not chewed, simply pass right through the GI track with no effect. The berries wouldn't HEAL (only relieve symptoms) the arthritis which is why other herbs which address the underlying problem would be a better choice in the long run. I've tried to grow Pokeberry here on my land to no avail. However, one is now growing wild (I am thrilled) just out my back door and the bluebirds are going nuts eating the berries. They adore them!!!! The berries look irresistible - which is why I wouldn't have a Poke if I had small children. However, if you don't have small children, give them your blessings! They are also native which is a big benefit. :-) H... From: "Dusty Bleher" dusty"at"fsinc.com
Here's a couple of links that might help those that aren't familiar with that herb...
From: "Bill Darnell" bdarnel3"at"bellsouth.net Here in TN, the older set consider the poke weed, or "Poke Sallet," a delicacy not to be evaded in the spring. They wash the heck out of it, boil and pour off the water three times, season the last boil with pork fat, and some even dump a raw egg in it, a la Chinese egg noodles. It is a good spring purgative (laxative) :-) Depending on taste, it is not bad. Like all boiled greens, it can get tiresome. The weed causes absolutely no harm, it is not invasive, and provides tons of food for bluebirds and others. Wish there were more of it! Bill TN From: "emcooper" emcooper"at"bayou.com There is a little town thirty miles north of Delhi, La. named Oak Grove, La., where they have a Polk Sallet Festival every Spring. I am very happy to know the bluebirds love the berries because we have lots of it where I live. Some people boil the leaves and eat it. Evelyn Cooper From: "Mandy Hils" ahils"at"home.com Not to mention that it truly is a beautiful/exotic looking plant. I tried to transplant some to my yard, but it didn't work. :-( I must go out and gather some berries/seeds to scatter around for next year, before the birds get them all. Mandy From: "Bill Darnell" bdarnel3"at"bellsouth.net Evelyn, please keep us posted on the "Poke Sallet" festival as to the date. I think that would be fun. Also, to anyone who is trying to grow it: Around here, it seems to always grow in disturbed earth; that is, where a dozer had pushed up stumps and brush, etc. seems I have read someplace that the seeds need to go thru a birds digestive system in order to germinate. Come in, Keith Kridler, I know you know about these seed! Bill From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber) Hi everyone, When in Ohio I had poke berry grow along a fence line and at the edge of my garden. These bushes got quite large at about 6 ft. They have the distinct ability to ,be in bloom, have green berries, and have ripe berries all at the same time. This creates an endless supply of berries for the Bluebirds. These berries will freeze at the first frost,and stop producing, but the birds continue eating the berries into winter, even the dry shriveled up ones. The plants have large roots that spread,and they come up every year from these roots. I've heard of people cutting young shoots and cooking them like asparagus. They are not poison to eat at the early stage,so i'm told. This is a good example of one of the wild berries that Bluebirds like that humans never think about. Most plants in my yard were volunteers and came up on their own. You could probably transplant the root to start some. I ran thru some with the roto tiller and they grew up that year. Best Wishes, Joe Huber Venice,Fl Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber... From: "emcooper" emcooper"at"bayou.com I will let all of you know when Oak Grove. La. has the Polk Sallet Festival. Should any bluebirders get to come, I would love to meet you. I was fortunate to get to meet our own Mary Jane Shearer about two weeks ago when she was visiting in a city close to me. She is a most delightful person and we really had fun visiting. In Mandy's post she said she hadn't had any luck getting the Polk Sallet to grow. I have never tried it, but in Dusty's post there is some great information at www.floridata.com . It says that you can dig the roots after the first freeze and break them into 6" lengths and replant them in containers, water regularly and keep in a warm place. It says you can dig sections in the Spring and replant. My husband says there are some in our area, but not on our property, so I will be searching for some to replant here for my bluebirds. Evelyn Cooper From: Lynn Ward lWard"at"pmai.org Dear Barb et al, Thanks for all the info on Pokeberry. I never knew what this FAST growing plant was that's all around our property. I have especially had two large ones grow, one on each side of a bird bath. Thinking them nuisance "weeds", I kept chopping them down every summer but they kept coming back and growing at an enormous pace! I'll bet they grew from bluebird droppings from the blues who regularly visit this particular bird bath. Guess I'll let them grow next year so the blues can have a treat........ Lynn Ward From: "emcooper" emcooper"at"bayou.com My husband set out immediately to find me some Poke Sallet. I am happy to report he found some right here on our property and on my trail. It is about 7 ft. tall, the most beautiful pink stalk, green leaves on some, green berries and purple berries on some and dried on it too. He found quite a bit of it. I plan to transplant some all around my trail and close to the bluebird barn where they love to stay,. I named it that because we see so many that love to hang around there. Evelyn Cooper Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 13:44:28 -0400 The plant in question doubtless is Poke (Pokeberry). It is believed by many here in the Southeast that Pokeberries are poisonous to humans. That may be true...I am in my mid-seventies and have yet to eat any to test the theory. I will say this: the blue/ purple coloring of the pokeberry is rather pervasive and persistent. That is to say, the birds eat the ripe berries. The birds defecate...usually on your just-washed car. The stain is most noticable. ... Claude From: "Pamela Ford" jpford"at"home.com I was intrigued by all the info being shared about pokeweed (which I've always called inkberry). For years I have cut branches of it from the woods and placed them in my backyard for the birds. The bluebirds, especially, give quite a show as they hover in mid-air while plucking the berries. I just did an internet search to find out more and discovered several university sites which give warnings against even handling the weed due to potentially mutagenic properties. I don't think I'll stop gathering pokeweed but I'll make sure I wash my hands from now on. Below is the information from purdue university's website. Has anyone else heard this before? Pam in Abingdon, Harford County, Maryland COMMON POKEWEED, POKEBERRY, POKEROOT, INKBERRY, POKE PLANT DESCRIPTION: Pokeweed (fig. 40) is a tall (to 10 feet), smooth-stemmed, perennial herb with a large, fleshy taproot (fig. 40A). Stems are succulent, purplish, and bear alternate, lance-shaped, shiny leaves with smooth, curled margins. The small, white to greenish flowers hang in long, drooping, grape-like clusters. Each flattened, spherical, green berry turns dark-purple or ink-black and usually contains 10 seeds. Pokeweed commonly grows on recently cleared land, in open woods, barnyards, pastures, fence rows, and roadsides. SIGNS: Animals do not voluntarily eat this plant unless there is no other forage available. If the animals are forced to eat pokeweed (especially if it has been incorporated into processed feeds), the primary signs relate to the irritant effects of the saponin toxins, in particular phytolaccigenin. Salivation, abdominal pain, diarrhea (which may become bloody) can be noted. Horses and ruminants do not exhibit vomiting, which is seen in humans, dogs, cats, and pigs. Signs usually resolve within a day or two. Only if large doses are consumed will the animal display more serious signs: anemia, alterations in the heart rate and in respiration, and in very rare cases, death. Noted in the human literature but not well published in the veterinary literature is the mutagenic and teratogenic properties of pokeweed, that is the ability to induce mutations (and possibly cancer) and birth defects. For humans, even handling the plant is considered dangerous, so it would seem wise to not only prevent human contact with the plant, but animal contact as well. Despite this, the plant is eaten as a spring vegetable in the southern U.S. after cooking it first in several changes of water. Consumption of the plant is not advised. FIRST AID: For gastrointestinal irritation, provide better feed and symptomatic care, and signs should abate in about 24 hours. Discard all feeds containing pokeweed, since the plant is never safe for consumption. For severely affected animals, or if it is known that a large amount was consumed, consult a veterinarian promptly for emergency care. SAFETY IN PREPARED FEEDS: Reports are not clear, but consider pokeweed as unsafe in hay and other feeds. PREVENTION: Pokeweed should be removed from pastures and barnyards. Exercise caution when doing so, since the plant is toxic to humans as well. Good pasture management, with mowing and weed removal, will suffice in keeping pokeweed under control. Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 14:46:28 -0400 One cautionary word about Pokeberry. Despite all of the praiseworthy comments concerning this plant, it is, in my opinion, invasive. The seeds are carried by the birds who eat the berries and the seeds are then deposited all over the premises. So...members of the gardening fraternity who are concerned about the presence of weeds in flower beds, hedgerows, plantations....beware....this plant does a remarkable job of reproducing itself...oftentimes in places where that is not welcome. And, by the way, the same could be said for Trumpet Creeper/Trumpet Vine...a favorite of hummingbirds. The only real way to keep it from popping up all over the place is to remove the seedpods from the vine at the end of the season. Dean Sheldon, Ripley Township, Huron County, OH From: "emcooper" emcooper"at"bayou.com I have an 85 year old neighbor that dearly loves Poke Sallet and it has always been a known fact that he would drive miles to find it. I just spoke with his wife about how she prepared it and she said she always par boiled it twice pouring off the water and replacing it before cooking it tender. I have the ideal place for it to grow on my trail and around the wooded acres behind my house. I am happy to know the bluebirds will have some more berries come this cold weather. Evelyn Cooper From: "MJShearer" eshearer"at"mediaone.net Hi all, I agree with Dean. If you're lucky enough *not* to have Pokeberry in your yard, I wouldn't get it started. Best to leave it growing in the wild or in your neighbor's yard. There are many nicer berry producers for the birds that aren't considered invasive weeds. As for the medicinal qualities, best to leave it alone. The average person has no way of knowing how much of any herb is good, and how much is too much. Just my humble opinion, of course... :-) ! MJ From: "emcooper" emcooper"at"bayou.com Do you have any information as to what time of the year it is considered poisonous? Is this weed really that much of a nuisance? There is really not much of it on our property and it has had plenty opportunity to spread. If it is a bothersome weed, I will not help it to spread. Does anyone on the list have problems with it? Evelyn Cooper From: "MJShearer" eshearer"at"mediaone.net Hi Evelyn, Having seen your beautiful N Louisiana farmland, I know your have room to allow a few Pokeberry plants grow to feed your Bluebirds; however, fussy gardeners with small yards will regret getting it started. As with most berries, birds eat them and pass the seeds undigested. The seeds always seem to land in my day lilies or ginger lilies, with a bit of "natural" bird fertilizer. By the time I find them, they're deeply rooted, crowding out my desirable plants. When I try pulling them up, they break, leaving the roots to re-sprout. Once established, they're hard to get rid of unless you're a diligent weeder. (Guess I'm a bit lazy.) If one has an area devoted to native plants, they can be worked in nicely. I'll stick to mustard, turnip, collard, and cabbage for my green leafy veggies; but if this economy gets much worse, we may all be harvesting dandelions and Poke sallet! I believe the very first leaves in Spring are supposed to be edible, but I've never tried them. MJ From: "emcooper" emcooper"at"bayou.com Mary Jane just assured me I have plenty room for my Polk Sallet on my property that I have devoted to the bluebirds. I call it my bluebird sanctuary. Maybe we are just lucky that in all these years we have not found the weed to be a bother. In fact, my husband was surprised that he found it on my trail. He goes over every inch of it many times. It has to have sunshine to grow and if it becomes a problem, he can disk it up. I don't think it will though. I have really enjoyed the postings on this subject. From what I read, the young tender leaves are the ones not poisonous. I doubt that I will try it though. I will just leave the berries to the birds. Evelyn Cooper From: "Bruce Johnson" bjohnso3"at"midsouth.rr.com Hello All - Looks like poke salad (that's what they called it in north Alabama where I grew up) has taken over everything including the list. ;-) For those of you that have not eaten a dish of this and think you may have missed out on a delightful dish, you haven't. If prepared right it is edible, barely. I think the barely part was due to the scrambled eggs that my mother added just before placing the dish on the table. My remembrance of the taste is: It is very strong and unlike any other thing I have ever tasted. The good book says to be thankful in all things. If you haven't eaten this dish, it's just one more thing you can be thankful for. During hard times, (that is what most of the ones of us that went through the depression it called or calls it,) we usually ate it a couple of times each spring. I am so thankful that evidently my parents did not relish it any more than we kids did. As for as the plant being aggressive, we never had any problems with that. It stayed in its place and we left it alone except for the above mentioned meals. We did use the ripe berries to write our names on a new *"Pick Sack" so another sibling wouldn't take it away from us. As I remember the dye from the berry is fairly permanent. Best regards to all you, city kids especially, Bruce J Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:34:29 -0700 Just to put my two cents worth about pokeweed. A lot of other birds like poke berries beside the blues. Cardinal, yellow-breasted chat, blueberry, house sparrows, and probably others but those do for sure. Norma Zier From: "Tania and Ron Parkinson" parkita"at"nb.sympatico.ca hi everyone, does anyone know if pokeberry is in south eastern canada? I have so many types of wild berries on and near my property, but not this one. Tania, New Brunswick From: "emcooper" emcooper"at"bayou.com This is what I read in some of the information that Dusty posted. Pokeweed is native to Eastern North America from Ontario, Quebec and Maine, West to Minnesota and South to Texas, Mexico and Florida. It grows in waste places, along roads and fence rows, in abandoned fields and open woods. Pokeweed can be a troublesome weed, but usually behaves itself. All of our property is in farm use and the roads and fence rows (we call them turn rows, they don't have fences) bushogged very clean so, my guess is that is the reason I find it only in the wooded area for my bluebirds. Evelyn Cooper Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 22:50:12 EDT As I remember the dye from the berry is fairly permanent. ...And makes pretty good Indian face paint when you're a kid, too! ... Rhonda Watts Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 21:17:00 -0700 (PDT) In my "neighborhood" I am "blessed" with many wonderful weeds, I don't consider poke weed one of them. I live on the edge of a small town surrounded by farmland. Fence rows, windbreaks and riparian habitats are filled with honeysuckle, multi flora rose and poke weed among many other plants. Even with all the competition the poke weed thrives. I have tried to eliminate these from my yard with little luck. I am by no means a fussy gardener, but I have to draw the line somewhere. If they are in your neighborhood I say, "Enjoy them from a distance." Jim Elliot Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 23:24:06 -0700 (PDT) A word of caution about pokeweed----don't allow your dog to eat the berries. My Schipperke was in an emergency animal hospital near death for three days after eating the berries--she pulled through--thank God--but I was a couple thousand $ poorer :-( Hope you'll learn from my experience! Dan Sparks From: "Gary Springer"
springer"at"alltel.net Gary Springer, Northeast Georgia From: "Dereth Vardaman" DCVardaman"at"msn.com Would the list suggest bushes that help feed bluebirds in the winter that= flourish in Alabama-Georgia. Thanks Dee. From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net Would the list suggest bushes that help feed bluebirds in the winter Northeast Georgia For example, dogwood, persimmon, honeysuckle, and rose hips are strongly favored by many birds. As a result, the birds normally strip all fruit from these plants before mid winter. On the other hand, sumac, cedar berries, china berries, hack berries, and privet hedge berries go largely ignored until late winter when there is little else that hasn't already been eaten. Therefore, although apparently not choice, because they are available in late winter, this second group is probably very important for the birds survival. Other plants that provide fruits that are eaten by bluebirds in the winter are holly, saw briar, and poison ivy. Although the fruits of the black cherry, mulberry, blackberry and blue berries are gone by late summer, they are big hits with the birds. To increase the odds that some fruits will be available to bluebirds throughout winter, I would plant as wide a variety of fruit producing plants as possible. Gary Springer From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas In one of the tables on known diets of birds he lists the bluebirds as eating 24 of the 34 most popular fruit or berry producing plants, trees or vines. In the list of "Fruits eaten by birds" the only three listed that the bluebirds could feed on all winter in the GA. Alabama area would the entire family of hollies, sumac and red cedar. His list shows 16 species of birds eating sumac and red cedar while only 7 species eat the hollies. Where as 30 species eat blackberries the favorite food plant followed by Mulberries at 28 species. Gary lists some plants not included in the list of "34 favorite" plants but the book list looks like mostly something from New England states. From my search of old books and where they are written I think birding was mostly in the northeast as in the south, before 1910, birds books only consisted of recipe or hunting manuals! It is interesting to note that some of the exact methods of feeding birds, building observation nestboxes and nestbox illustrations are identical to what is in John K. Terres's book "Song Birds in your Garden" that was written 48 years later! John used the exact plants in Trafton's book and made different styles of feeding tables for the different bird species! He only adds a few birds or plant species to his "revised" lists. Trafton's book is remarkable for it's time and he describes in detail how to make a nestbox into a house sparrow live trap by installing a "drop bar" over the entrance hole to allow a nearby watcher to pull a pin and drop the bar to trap the sparrow in the nestbox. Also mentions that a "new trap design" where a drop bar and an interior trigger release could work at trapping without having to sit and watch.....Sounds like the Joe Huber traps first origins! Sandy picked up about 12 old bird books printed before 1920 off of Ebay in one week by going to books and doing a search on "antique books". She only ever bid the minimum and got them for very low prices! This one is a "Jewel" and every one of the bird books has something on bluebirds! It will take me a year to go through these books. KK From: "judymellin" judymellin"at"netzero.net As a restorationist, I would like to suggest that any palntings you consider be only species native to your area. There are many introduced species (not unlike the house sparrow!) that can overrun an area if there is not natural competition. While these may seem like they are providing fruits for the blues, they could be causing more problems down the road. Just because a plant or shrub is hardy in your area does not mean it is a native species there. If bluebirds are native to your area, then they "grew up" eating fruit for native shrubs and vines. Try to provide more of the species that have occurred in your area over time and you will be doing a service to all! If you have a local or statewide natural history society, they could probably provide a list to you. If you are trying to build habitat, try to make it as native as possible! Judy Mellin From: "Pauline, Mountain City TX" bluebirds"at"austin.rr.com I agree with Gary that it's a good idea to plant a wide variety of fruit producing plants. However, I suggest selecting plants that are native to the area. (What's "native" for you may not be "native" for me.) I'm becoming increasingly aware that we're messing with nature when we add non-native landscaping plants. ... For instance, Gary's Message mentions China Berry. The China Berry tree is a non-native in the United States as is the Chinese Tallow tree (whose fruit is sometimes referred to as "china berries). Both of these large, fast growing, rapidly spreading trees are capable of invading wildland areas and rapidly replacing the natural communities and altering the natural ecosystem. Both are a significant pest plant in the U.S.; even so, they continue to be sold through nurseries. 20 Audubon Societies are among the groups in Texas and throughout the Southeast that are diligently working to eradicate Chinese Tallows. Neo-tropical migrating birds that land on the Gulf Coast in the spring after flying across the Gulf of Mexico depend upon mulberries and other native fruits for survival. Chinese Tallow trees, whose fruit has no nutritional value, are "smothering" the native trees and vegetation - threatening the survival of birds and other native wildlife. It has been explained to me that Chinese Tallow berries for birds are equivalent to popcorn for humans. It's surmised that birds might get the value of grit, but no nutritional value. Bluebirds will eat some non-native fruits and berries. Because they eat them does not necessarily mean they provide nutrition. And, it does not mean that the plant will not have a detrimental effect on the ecosystem. Plant natives! Pauline Tom From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net ... For the most part, I also prefer to avoid exotic plants, as well as plants propagated in other states and commercial greenhouses. There is no telling what insect or bacteria may be on plants purchased from nurseries that host plants from all over the world. I have too much invested in trees to take a chance. There are 5 China berry trees growing on the property. All were here when I moved onto the property 8 years ago, and, all are within 75 feet of an old farm house that was abandoned thirty years ago. During this thirty year or longer period none have spread into the more than 60 acres of forest surrounding the old house. I'm not familiar with the struggle with the intrusive Chinese Tallow tree in Texas but my study of trees reveals that the China Berry tree common to North Georgia is not normally a large tree and it is not capable of propagating itself in the native forests here where it is apparently quickly crowded out by the much taller native trees. As I wrote, cedar berries, sumac heads, hack berries and china berry are less desirable to wild birds. But this is an advantage because these persist throughout the winter. I would not argue that the nutritional value of these berries may be little more than pop corn but when all the mulberries, dogwood, and holly have been gone for more than two months, something with the nutritional equivalent of popcorn is far better than no food at all. For this reason, I believe that in North Georgia, China berry trees of the type I am familiar with are an excellent potentially life saving source of food for bluebirds and other wild birds in late winter and when hard frost strikes in early spring, even if they are not originally from this continent. Another tree which is not from this continent but which I believe will prove to be of utmost importance in the timber industry, and, result in saving many forests of older native trees, is the Paulownia tree. There are dozens of other exotic plants that are very useful and which are not invasive, many of which we depend on for our own food. As Pauline wrote, each area is different. Before setting out a plant, make sure it isn't invasive in your area. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I hope to learn more about the matter, especially how the nutritional value of the china berry compares to the other berries such as sumac which are largely ignored by the birds until late winter but which are recognized as important foods for wild birds when little if any other food can be found. Sincerely, Gary Springer Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 04:53:54 -0800 (PST) Pauline, I agree wholeheartedly about planting "native." One source for native trees that people could use is their state conservation dept. Here, in MO, our conservation dept. offers a wide variety of native trees for sale at very low prices. They also list the "features" of the trees, like good for: reforestation, windbreaks, erosion control, as well as wildlife food and cover. Granted, they are just seedlings, but you can buy a "bundle" (about 25 seedlings) for approx. $6.00. I'm sure most conservation depts. have an online site where you can see the varieties offered. Even if one does not want to buy seedlings, they can get a good idea, from the list of trees offered, what is native to their state and look for those at their local nurseries. The MO dept. also has a program called "Grow Native," that lists nurseries in the state that sell native trees/grasses, etc. Take advantage of your state programs, folks! I'm glad I did...although my poor husband probably doesn't think so because I just ordered 25 seedlings each of Wild Plum and Witch Hazel :) BTW-we have ample room, as we live on 30 mostly wooded acres in the Ozark Mtns. Evelyn From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas Sumac fruit if you pick them now are basically a furry skin covered indigestible BB but they are listed as the #1 winter bluebird food in most books. Why? Because they are eaten by few birds and remain available in all winters. When boiled they release small amounts of various products and sumac berry tea was very popular in the south before drug stores became available. They were used to treat all sorts of stomach ailments in humans but nutritionally you would probably have to eat 20 or 30 pounds a day to derive a 9 ounce helping of digestible product from them. Chinese tallow when ripe is one of the preferred bird foods in this area and the same birds that strip dogwood trees swarm the tallow trees in Jan. for the white drupes the trees are covered with. We may be at the northern edge of the Chinese Tallow trees range as it is an intense struggle to even get these trees to survive. I prefer to stress planting trees and bushes that need no care, it seems to me a little strange to force the birds to only live off of "native" plants while we have the luxury of a very wide range of "non-native" fruits and vegetables that we grow by 100's of millions of acres. Yes we have and are still making some terrible mistakes by bringing in foreign invasive plants/pests but timber/wood products are also importing plant pests. 36% of all lumber used in the US came from Canada last year but China and Russia are increasing shipments of wood & wood boring insect pests also. Importation of wood helps our remaining forests if we keep out the pests. KK From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net Hi Pauline, The Chinaberry to which I am referring is the Melia azedarach of the mahogany family. It attains a maximum height of 40 feet and apparently requires full sun as all sources I have found, as well as my personal observations, indicate its expansion is limited to clearings around old houses and waste places. Because native trees grow much taller, it is not a threat in native forest which crowd it out. Also, it requires dry soil so apparently it is unable to invade swamps and wet lands which in many areas are void of taller native plants. It has been a common "weed" in the south for many decades and has probably spread as far and wide as it possibly can. The Chinaberry seeds make excellent ornamental beads and this may be the way it became common around old home sites. As you indicated, birds may well have contributed to its spread. The Paulownia tree to which I referred to earlier also grows around old home sites. My understanding is that it got its start in the United States because the large hollow seed pods were used as packing material when shipping china, long before styrophoam was invented. I tried to follow the link to the web page you referred to but I was unable to find the page. If this page relates to Melia azedarach, please re-enter the url manually so I can find it. What is the scientific name of the Chinese Tallow? Do you have a link to information on this species? Thanks for following up on this interesting matter. Gary Springer From: "Pauline, Mountain City TX" bluebirds"at"austin.rr.com Dear Friend Keith & All, We each live in a different world. When we recommend a plant (or even a nestbox) on Bluebird-L that works for us, it might be that it has catostrophic effect elsewhere. Because fruit & berry producing plants are spread by birds who eat them one place and "plant" them somewhere else, there's value in learning the consequences our plant that attracts birds has elsewhere. I emailed Jeff Mundy (President of Houston Audubon Society) who has devoted
countless hours to destroying Chinese Tallow trees. He furnished the reply below
to me that I'll share verbatim with y'all as well as these URL's (which may be
copied and pasted in your browser):
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/hunt/research/c-tallow.htm (from Jeff Mundy regarding nutritional value of Chinese Tallow trees) "Let me shift the discussion just a bit. The overwhelming issue with tallow is their tremendous destruction of habitat more so than their food value or lack thereof. Birds likely are eating tallow berries as much for grinding material in their gizzards as much as for digestible food product, hence the propensity of tallows to spread around areas where bird dropping tend to occur. However, Tallow trees are extremely invasive and significantly out compete native species of plants of nearly all categories whether grass, understory or mature trees. Tallow cutting in High Island (Galveston, TX) reveals that tallows are
growing 1" in girth per year, thereby achieving a 18" in girth in less than 20
years. They Tallows are claiming coastal prairies about as fast as manmade habitat destruction, including habitat which would otherwise be suitable for bluebirds. If tallows are left unchecked in an area on the coast, they will become a virtual monoculture within a few decades. The tallow forests I have checked are nearly devoid of birdlife (or anything else for that matter). The problem is very similar to the problems faced in the South with kudzu vine which are destroying habitat at a tremendous clip. The person asking the question here obviously is well intentioned but needs to appreciate the big picture. If someone wants to help bluebirds, go kill all of the tallows, privet, and kudzu, plant some new trees which will provide cavity nesting opportunities in the future and insects and true berries for food. Also, how many bluebirds have they observed in tallow forests? Not one would be my guess." Pauline Tom Rhonda Watts, Wilton, N.H. I've been asked (off list) for information on Chinaberry Tree. I found the following (lengthy) Nature Conservancy abstract (I've pasted it since sometimes links do not work) through www.ucdavis.edu and then typing in search for "chinaberry". This search pulled up a number of articles on Chinaberry trees (Melia azedarach). This tree is not related to the Chinese Tallow (Sapium sebiferum) which is also included in The Nature Conservancy's "Wildland Invasive Species Program". While this may seem off topic, it seems it is pertinent (particularly when
we're in "off season") as bluebirders are dispersing information that mentions
these two (non-native) trees that have fruit that is eaten by bluebirds. Some
plants that are native for some of us in parts of the United States are not
native to others. Neither of these trees is not to the United States. Pauline
Tom, Mountain City TX ELEMENT STEWARDSHIP ABSTRACT for Melia azedarach
Chinaberry, Umbrella tree To the User: This abstract is a compilation of available information and is not an
endorsement of particular practices or products. Please do not remove this cover
statement from the attached abstract. Author of this Abstract: Michael S. Batcher, Consulting Ecologist and
Environmental Planner, 1907 Buskirk-West Hoosick Road, Buskirk, NY 12028, STEWARDSHIP SUMMARY RANGE HABITAT BIOLOGY AND ECOLOGY ECONOMIC USES MANAGEMENT MONITORING RESEARCH The following research topics need attention: 1) What are the mechanisms of
M. azedarach invasion and spread in a variety of fragmented forest landscapes?
2) What is the light environment of disturbed forests and the corresponding
tolerance limits for M. azedarach reproduction and survival? REFERENCES From: "paul kilduff" plkldf"at"hotmail.com Paul Kilduff, Baltimore MD FWIW, I'm really enjoying the continuing discussion, including KK's philosophizing (the piece about counting sighs and goosebumps was inspired), Wendell's desperate struggle to tunnel out from under Christmas spirit, the spirited discussion about HOSP, the wonderful EUST sites (listening to Stormy talk was a *trip*!), and the plant discussion, which is near to my heart since I hate to think about TRES and EABL migrating all the way to our trail only to die for lack of food). From: Evelyn Ford eafrn"at"yahoo.com One source for native trees that people could use Lucky you! Here in MD our shrubs are $15 APIECE purchased through DNR: http://www.dnr.state.md.us/forests/treemendous/purchasetrees.html YIKES!! A bundle of seedlings for $6 sounds mighty good compared to THAT! Still, there's a great site on what shrubs are good for EABL and TRES, and maybe I'll try to find them cheaper somewhere else. Anyone know of another avenue? Meanwhile, here are the shrubs native to MD listed as providing food for blues and tree swallows: SHADBUSH OR SERVICEBERRY (Amelanchier canadensis) WINTERBERRY (Ilex verticillata) WAX MYRTLE (Myrica cerifera) HIGHBUSH BLUEBERRY (Vaccinium corymbosum) AMERICAN HOLLY (Ilex opaca) the above from: http://www.dnr.state.md.us/criticalarea/trees.html Paul Kilduff From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net Despite all I have read about the chinaberry plant or Melia azedarach, a plant that has probably already spread as far and wide as it possibly can, not one biologist has named a single species of plant or animal that is threatened by it on any meaningful scale, or, any meaningful economic loss caused by its growth. In my opinion it is just a small moderately successful shrub or small tree which is readily crowded out by most native trees as the forest matures and which is apparently disliked and studied extensively by degree seeking or exotic phobic biologists because instead of being a native plant, its arrival on this continent was apparently expedited by the most dangerous of all exotic species, the one to which all the aforementioned biologists belong, homo sapiens. And, from what I have experienced first hand and read, its introduction may be one of the rare things our species did that helped wild birds. If this plant was not already here, I would be the first to condemn the idea of introducing it. But, it is here, it is wide spread, and it will always be here. Further, it seems to have as many advantages as disadvantages, unless you are concerned about the survival of native birds, in which case, its introduction seems to be a great advantage. Gary Springer From: "Dottie, Hickory Hollow, Brown County, Indiana"
yumyumkatts"at"voyager.net Hi Gary, When I was a child in Tidewater, Virginia, my girlfriend's grandmother had a Chinaberry tree in her chicken yard. I don't know how old the house was but it had been a farm house at one time. The town had grown up around it but she still had her chicken yard and a few farm animals as well. The Chinaberry tree was fairly close to the house but there were no other trees around it. It had lots of berries. I don't know whether the chickens atethe berries or if chickens even eat berries; but there were berries all around the chicken yard. I always thought it was a pretty tree but had completely forgot about it until Chinaberry trees were brought up on the List. I remember it was not a large tree but had outstretched limbs like an umbrella. I don't think I have ever seen a Chinaberry tree in Indiana but my husband
says they do grow here. If so, I would like to get one. From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net Chinaberry (Melia azedarach), an exotic small tree originally from the Himalayas is a member of the mahogany family and grows in the southern United States as well as many other areas of the world. It is most easily recognized by the numerous light tan clusters of widely spaced marble sized berries that persist on this tree that is otherwise naked throughout winter. These berries are poisonous to mammals but it appears the poisonous properties may be lost after weathering on the tree for several months during winter, after which time, in severe weather, some birds eat the sticky fibrous/pithy-like flesh of the berry. This tree is present around nearly every old home site in Georgia and other areas of the south. Because, in Georgia, it is seldom found anywhere other than near old home sites it is apparent it is not successful in competing with the larger native trees which crowd it out. Further because it is almost entirely absent from the rest of the landscape, it apparently is not readily spread by seed, but instead, depends on its roots to propagate itself. It is most intriguing how frequently it is found around these old home sites. It is possible that southerners of generations past planted chinaberry in their yards and around their outbuildings simply as an ornamental plant. But, because it doesn't have any special visual appeal, it doesn't seem this is likely. The seeds of the berries were commonly used as beads, but this characteristic also seems too insignificant to account for its widespread propagation generations ago, especially since as previously noted, locally, it is not readily reproduced by seed. Today some pharmaceuticals are produced from this tree, and, one source I found indicated that one member of the mahogany family that "grows in Florida" was used to produce quinine which is effective in treating malaria. For the reasons above, I believe old timers commonly planted the chinaberry tree around their homes for a medicinal use or some other important utility. And, the reason I am writing this is to rediscover exactly what practical use was made of the chinaberry tree in generations past that accounts for its widespread appearance at old home sites. I would appreciate all suggestions as well as forwarding this Message to anyone you think may lead me to this information. Sincerely, Gary Springer Bluebird feeding - planting (Part 4) |
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