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Bluebird feeding - Philosophy (Part 5)In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website:
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 13:10:59 -0400 Is there a particular time of year when the EABL need mealworms the most? Is it when they have babies on the nest, or to attract pairs in the spring? Other time??? Not sure I can afford to feed them year round. At 08:28 AM 5/15/2002 -0700, Ann&Tom Long wrote: Tom Long Peace, Jim From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com I am one of those curmudgeons who believes that mealworm-feeding is not really necessary at ANY time of year. But I'll be the first to admit that it certainly does increase my OWN pleasure, and it helps make them bolder and more tame. Bruce Burdett From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber) Hello Jim and all, Meal worm feeding has just become popular the last 2-3 years. It has always been difficult to feed Bluebirds because of their diet. Feeding them has nothing to do with having successful nesting. Feeding is for our pleasure to see them close. The beginning of the first efforts to bring back the Bluebird was done without any feeding of the Bluebirds. You must determine when you think they need help if that is your goal in feeding them. You don't need to feed any to be successful. Some that feed all the time believe it has helped but that has no solid proof. They have survived for a million years without our help. I say spend more time controlling predators and less feeding them. Joe Huber venice, Fl. Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL
http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds 27.1171494 N Lo -82.4124222 W Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 03:58:16 -0400 on 5/15/02 11:28 AM, Ann&Tom Long at longann"at"pacinfo.com wrote: I plan on feeding meal worms on my trail to help theWEBL through the ... The "Spring" weather here in southern Michigan has been lousy. It's been cold and wet with forecasts of snow just 100 miles north of here by the weekend. I heard Chicago had flurries yesterday. There has been very little insect activity and I am worried about "my" birds and bats. Consequently, I feel obliged to help in any way I can since I have Robins, Chicadees, and Bluebirds all with babies to feed. My mealie feeder consists of a 6x6 cake pan mounted on a four foot pole. The mealies have been disapperaring as fast as I can put them out and until yesterday, I wasn't even sure if the Blues were getting their fair share. I barely finished refilling it wheh I saw the female trying her darndest to scarf up every mealy in the pan. Her beak was full and every time she tried to pick up just one more worm, she'd lose two. She seemed frantic and soon the male arrived to help. No longer content to fill their mouths while perched on the rim of the pan, they both jumped right in. It was a feeding frenzy in every sense of the term. I had to leave and couldn't stick around to see how it played out, but I'm guessing that they were trying to get what they could before the feeder was taken over by more agressive birds once it became known I had just refilled it. I only have the one pair of EABL's with 3 babies that are seven days old.
Plus, the BCCH with 7, Robins with ? and who knows what else in the
neighborhood. Many bidrs are competing for enough food to feed their families.
I've been feeding about 100 mealies/day (intended for the Waiting for the Mayflies, From: "Connie" bluebirder"at"earthlink.net We are going on a trip for 2 weeks. Does anyone have any suggestions as to
how to feed mealworms while we are away? I'm afraid that our 5 eggs will hatch
while we are gone, and I'd like to feed the Ma and Pa. I can't see how I can.
(My neighbors think I am nuts to get worms for my Connie in Western NC From: "Randy Jones" randyj"at"enter.net Sam and Sadie nested in a Peterson nestbox about 75 feet from our back door. They also defended the NABS nestbox 12 feet beyond it. Tree swallows gave it a look, but were discouraged. Sadie laid four eggs, which hatched out. When the hatchlings were about 10 days old (I'm delinquent: didn't write down the exact date.), Sadie apparently decided to go on and build a second nest in the NABS box. I noticed a male sparrow on top of that box one morning, decided I'd better check, and found her body, head pecked in. I dealt with the sparrow, trapping him, too late, within an hour. I decided I'd better provide Sam with extra help, since the weather was bad, and he would be working hard alone to take care of the four nestlings. I began increasing the numbers and frequency of mealworms I put out in our closed feeder, which is about 50 feet from the back door. Sam and Sadie had been quite responsive to my whistles from the start, and seemed to "know" about this feeder. I suspect they are from last years fledglings. Sam became so quick to respond when I whistled that he would often be on the feeder before I had whistled more than a single note. I finally ran out of large mealworms, ordered more, but meanwhile, began using the smaller ones just coming on in my boxes in the basement. These, too, were running out, so I had to slow down the feedings. Today, the new experience. I was working in my garden, which is on the other side of a shed from the nestboxes and the feeder, about 150 feet from the nestbox. The hatchlings still have not fledged. About two hours went by without my giving Sam any mealworms. Suddenly, I saw a flash of blue. He sailed by only a few feet from my head, and landed in a pear tree next to my raised beds, where I was working. He sat there a moment, then flew down and plucked a bug out of the bed next to the one where I was working. I thought at first he was telling me it was time to eat, but when he got the bug, I concluded he was just hunting. But he went off and then came back again and landed on top of one of our tomato cages, about 15 feet from where I was. OK, I said. I'll go down the basement and see if I can find any more little ones. I did, and Sam seemed to appreciate it. Now I have a cat in the house which comes and tells me when it's time to eat, and a bird in the backyard which does the same! Hope those mealworms I ordered come tomorrow! Randy Jones Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 23:36:21 -0500 Your best plan of action just may be to take NO action...Ma and Pa Bluebird need no help from us in finding food! In a few short days they not only will be feeding themselves, but 5 young also! And chances are they will do an excellent job all by themselves! As far as I'm concerned, watching bluebirds take mealworm after mealworm
after mealworm....well, it does get boring after the novelty binoculars on Mom and Dad BB to observe the variety of insects, spiders,
caterpillars, etc, that they bring to the nest, especially when the young ones
are over a week old. No scientific basis for my reasoning on this, but I think
they get a better well-rounded diet if we DON"T feed 'em the mealworms.
Mealwormless Bob in Muskego, Wisconsin... where it's goin' down to the high 30s
tonight! :o( Connie wrote: We are going on a trip for 2 weeks. Does anyone have any suggestions ... From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com Connie, et al, Not to worry. The Bluebirds will do just fine without mealworms in your absence, just possibly better. Mealworm-feeding is fun for us, for many reasons. No doubt about that. But I'm far from convinced that the birds really NEED them, in fact I'm just about convinced that they don't. 60 of my 64 houses never see a mealworm, ever, in any season. The other 4 see some now and then simply because they're nearby and easy to get to with a 3 or 4 minute drive. Whether mealworm-feeding actually harms them in some complex biological way, I don't know. I'm inclined to doubt it. So.......Mealwormless Bob, thanks for your well-phrased and sensible post. Bruce Burdett, SW NH, where it's still snowing seriously, and where our lunatic Robin is still banging on my woodshop window as he has been, off and on, for about 3 weeks. I should think he might at least have a severe headache, if not actual brain damage or dementia. From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com Tom, Dick, Harry, Kim, et al, I think it is pretty much the consensus on these Bluebird-related lists that the Bluebirds simply do not NEED our mealworms. .......... We all know that it's fun for us to see them snack on our worms, and it's fun for us to get them to perch on our hand, and it's fun for us to get them up close for good pictures, and it's fun for us to see them appear magically when we whistle, or when we just heave in sight. It can get to be a little like feeding pigeons in the park, and that's fun, too. ........ But these birds are phenomenally expert at finding their own food. They're been doing it successfully in the wild for millennia, and they've gotten along just fine before this mealworm thing became so popular. Think of all the Bluebirds that never lay eyes on a mealworm in their entire lives, - the majority, I dare say. My point is that we must not torment ourselves if we have to miss a few
snack-times for some reason, or if the birds don't always come to our feeders
the way we think they should, or they they take it in their heads to stay out of
sight for a few days. They really do know what they're doing. Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 11:18:44 -0400 Although I've been feeding mealworms almost daily since last fall, I agree with Bruce, it's mostly for my benefit. So that I can watch them or photograph them, or learn of their behavior up close. While I do believe that the mealworms help them during cold spells (and may even save some nestlings from starvation), during good weather, they almost completely ignore the mealworms. I've seen them use the mealworm feeder as a perch as they look for other insects on the ground, leaving the mealworms in the feeder. In my opinion, there are only 3 situations where mealworms actually help the bluebirds rather than entertain the people. 1. In cold rainy weather without insects and the nestlings are young. 2. It can make feeding fledglings easier and perhaps encourage a faster second nesting 3. Finally, I believe it allows the bluebirds to stay closer to the nestbox when insects are scarce, thus protecting it better against HOSP. I've never had any luck with bluebirds entering any feeders with sides, either plexiglass or dowels. Before long the open feeders were a battling ground with Robins, Mockingbirds, Starlings, and Bluebirds. I purchased one of those clear domed feeders and lowered the dome to a height shorter than a starling. It did the trick. Although the bluebirds don't seem to like it, they use it and it keeps the larger birds out. Pam in Harford County, Maryland -----Original Message----- ... Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 14:16:23 -0400 Hi Kim: I too would have to agree with Bruce and Pam on the mealworm issue..... they're really not necessary during the summer. However, I will say this in defense of mealworm usage: as I indicated in my introductory post several days ago, I saw bluebirds for the first time in my life when I put mealworms out in my backyard. Up until then, I wasn't even sure if there were bluebirds in my area. It just goes to show, that if you put the right kind of food out, you can attract species that you wouldn't ordinarily see. Having said that, once a mockingbird got wind of the mealworm source, it became psychotic in defending its territory against EVERYTHING (except, interestingly, the American Goldfinches who were able to nonchalantly feast on their thistle seed feeder while the mockingbird drove away everything else). All I did was stress myself out for about month trying to figure out a way to feed mealworms to the bluebirds at the exclusion of mockingbirds. I ultimately concluded it's probably impossible, so I stopped putting mealworms out so that at least other birds could come back in my yard. As information, I've tried various types of bluebird feeders, and even those have been ineffective in excluding mockingbirds. The last feeder I tried had 1" horizontal slots cut into polycarbonate sides, and a mockingbird was still able to get into the feeder and devour all of the mealworms. If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes, I never would have believed it. I may try mealworms again in late autumn or early winter, and see what develops. Anyway, good luck, Kim! Btw, has anyone out there had better success than I, in finding a bluebird feeder that a mockingbird can't negotiate? -------- Original Message -------- ... Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 21:05:25 -0500 One more thought on this subject: Bruce, you say that BBs don't need the
mealworms. I totally agree with that. But I am tempted to take it a step
further... I am wondering if too much mealworm feeding could hamper the natural
insect hunting that is taught by the parents not long after the young BBs
fledge. I always enjoy watching the parent bluebirds down in the grass with
their offspring, showing them how it's done. So what happens if the whole season
is spent taking mealworms from a feeder? Might that not have a detrimental
effect on the young, since they won't always have feeders to rely on?? Could
they possibly become so reliant on feeders that by the time they head south,
they haven't sufficiently honed their skills at hunting? I'm not sure about
this, but I have thought about it quite a bit. I guess perhaps the insect
hunting is so instinctive that they just "do it" when they get a little Bruce Burdett wrote: Tom, Dick, Harry, Kim, et al, ... Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 14:54:27 -0700 (PDT) Bob, I think that the Eastern Bluebirds(EABL) in my yard are hunting and forging for food before alot of people ever get out of bed in the mornings and they are still hunting and forging as the sun is going down ... a good 12 hours. That is a lot of hours in a day to keep a mealworm feeder stocked not to mention how many worms it would take so that the EABL would not have to do anything except fly to the feeder for a meal. I put out mealworms and I usually put out up to 100 (give or take a few) once a day but not every day I do miss a day sometimes. The mealworms are usually gone within 10 or 15 minutes after I put them out. That is 15 minutes out of 12 hours. I let any of the birds eat them but mostly the family of EABL are the ones that get to them first. When the Robin gets there the mealworms last only about 5 minutes. How many people put out a supply of mealworms to last for hours at a time with birds feeding on them? I agree they don't need them but I can't see where it is actually hampering their natural instinct to hunt. Just my Opinion. - jacqueline tamm bjtamm"at"execpc.com wrote: ... From: "paul kilduff" plkldf"at"hotmail.com Paul Kilduff, Baltimore MD Bruce WROTE: I hate to disagree, but I must. I think the questions of whether mealworm feeding keeps parents closer to the nest, and supplements non-human-provided food during bad weather, and helps single moms, thus increasing fledge rates, are fair questions that haven't been answered yet. I agree with Haleya that this global-warming weather is screwing with the birds' programming, and that they may need some help from us who caused this global warming juggernaut in the first place. In short, I believe regular mealworm feeders (and heated boxes) would have reduced mortality last week. Does that help? I think yes. Should we do it? I don't know. (But I now wish my chickadee box had had a heater! Silly as that may sound. I provided a drafty box (BTW, I went out and looked and my side vents on the Springer chalet ARE bigger than spec -- in trying to make the box top-opening, I increased the vent size), and I (as representative of the human race) provided unpredictable/unprecedented killer climate. So now can I simply walk away and say, "sink or swim, may the fittest survive?") Anyway, needing mealworm feeders to increase odds of survival and not being able to survive without them are two different things, to me.... I may be able to drive with a dirty windshield, but I still NEED a clean windshield. Bluebirds may be able to fledge young without mealworms, but don't they still NEED them to keep their fledge rates as high as possible? And don't we want that? I think the question of whether we're doing them a disservice by helping them
artificially to increase their fledge rates is also a valid question, which also
needs to be answered.... The anti-Grinch folks will Well, I certainly don't want to be considered anti-Grinch! :o) Paul in Baltimore From: "judymellin" judymellin"at"netzero.net While this subject has been discussed many times, it needs to be said again that there is no need to feed mealworms at all! Many folks provide supplemental feedings when the weather is very cold and wet early in the season but many more of us have never fed a mealworm or any other supplement. We have many, many birds fledge without any help. So, particularly for the newer folks on the list, please do not feel that you must spend any money on feeding the birds in the late spring and summer. They have survived for millennia without us and will continue to do so. Judy Mellin ... From: "Karen Harder" karenh"at"praxisworks.org So many of you were so helpful earlier when things were not going well in our nestboxes, here's a happier update. It's a bit long, but I think it will be worth it! First, my bluebird pair had their first clutch of 5 eggs disappear from their nest. Then my chickadees had their 5 eggs disappear. In neither case did any reason ever become apparent. The bluebirds immediately rebuilt in another box where I could keep a constant eye on everything going on, and they laid 5 more eggs. I was very sad about the chickadee loss because I know they have only 1 clutch a year. I wrote to you all about those events as they happened, partly for sympathy, but even more with questions about what and why and how. And I got lots of understanding and helpful answers. Now, here's the next installment in the saga-- The 5 eggs of the bluebirds' second attempt all hatched successfully, and Mama and Papa took care of them beautifully. I kept marveling at how faithful and thorough Papa was. He made constant trips back and forth all day every day, along with Mama, of course, and guarded her and the babies beautifully. Then, last Sunday morning I began to realize that all the activity I was seeing at the box was just Mama. I watched throughout the day as Mama wore herself out in the fog, rain, and temps in the 50s. During one half-hour period, she made 27 trips, which was typical of the whole day. But where was Papa? Late in the afternoon, Jon, my husband, just happened to spot him on top of the wood pile next to our house, with his feet skyward. All we can figure is that he must have hit the nearby window. I think Jon took it even harder than I did, if that's possible. Papa Blue was still in perfect, spotless condition, so, even though he had already been dead for many hours, I called my friend/mentor/master bird bander to tell her the sad news and ask her if she might still be able to use him for a study skin. She said it was worth a try, so I put him in the freezer in great hope that his death might be able to serve some good purpose. But we were concerned about Mama and the 5 babies, who were 11 days old that day (last Sunday). Neither of us knew a local source for mealworms, so she called our local rehabber who said I could come and pick up a bunch from them! Mama B. had never been fed mealworms before, so I was very concerned whether she would even be willing to take her attention away from her duties long enough to check them out. I had to end up putting the dish on top of her nestbox before she even took notice of them, about 22 hours after I first offered them. But glory be! Once she discovered them, she was in bluebird Mama heaven! They just saved her soooo much time and effort! It just made us cry, her relief was so visible. After literally hours during the last year or so of reading all the posts from all of you discussing the pros and cons, as well as everything in the Monitor's Guide, and much conscience probing, I had decided not to feed mealworms to our bluebirds. I still don't think I'll do any general feeding of them. But I can absolutely say that I will NEVER EVER be caught without any on hand again. Yesterday and today have been in the 90s, with humidity the same (yes, even here on the Maine coast!), with sudden torrential rain and some periods of heavy fog. I can vouch that there's certainly no lack of mosquitoes in her marsh, but my feeling is that Mama (or maybe not all 5 babies) might not have made it without the infusion a couple of times a day of these mealworms. Even if they just make ME feel better, I'm grateful for any help I can get for the guilt I feel for having put a window in Papa's path. Meanwhile, my bander friend came over on Tuesday and banded the 3 robust, healthy baby boys and 2 just as robust and healthy baby girls. This is day 16, so they won't be here much longer. But, believe me, I plan to have plenty of mealworms available for them and Mama when her huge job of teaching and protecting them is underway. At this moment, though, she's just enjoying a major, well-deserved bath As for the chickadees-- When their 5 eggs disappeared (I found one of the shells on the ground, and it had a sharply cut edge, looking as if there was a hatching), I didn't have the heart to clean their beautiful nest out of the box right away, even though I hoped bluebirds might decide to nest in it since the chickadees were through for the year. But on the subsequent couple of days I began to realize I was seeing a great deal of quiet activity at the box. Three days after finding the nest empty, I checked again. I found 2 chickadee eggs! Eventually, there were 7! I theorize that either the Mama died and Papa found a new mate who was happy to not have to build a nest, or that chickadees sometimes try again when the first attempt fails, even though they won't go through multiple nestings the way bluebirds do. Anyway, as of today, we have some of the tiniest little beaks you ever saw in the nest! (Mama had completely covered the babies with pink fuzzy lint, from the neighbor's dryer I suppose, and I didn't want to disturb it enough to get a real count.) In addition, 2 nests of tree swallows hatched, a nest of titmice and a nest of white-breasted nuthatches have fledged and are happily hunting in our trees. So, as of now, I am very happy. All is well, except for the tragic loss of Papa blue and possibly Mama 'dee. But I've learned that this is not an activity for the faint of heart, the squeamish, or anyone looking for just a pleasant pastime! Fortunately, I had a fairly good idea what I was in for when I got started, but I have to admit I wasn't totally prepared for all the emotional ups and downs. But nothing could make me stop now!! May the successes for all of us always exceed the failures! Karen Harder--Cape Porpoise, Maine From: "Finneran, Ann" Ann.Finneran"at"arbitron.com I have been feeding mealworms since early Spring. My bluebirds have all fledged and only return to the yard occasionally. Would it be okay to stop feeding mealworms now - especially since I really haven't seen who is actually eating them. Do most people stop feeding them in the Fall and start again in the Spring? We do have blues here all year long.... Thanks From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"tds.net Ann, et al, I fed no meal-worms at any of my 36 2-box sites this year, and the Bluebirds did just fine. If I get around to it, I think I might feed again next summer, but I might not get around to it. Remember how well the birds managed to feed themselves before people started feeding them meal-worms. I hope the rest of you will chime in if you disagree with me. Bruce Burdett, SW NH Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 20:55:31 -0400 I agree with you completely, Bruce. I live in Maryland as Ann does and feed mealworms year round for my pleasure (although it probably helps the bluebirds in rainy, cold, spring weather). This way I entice the blues to come close in the yard and I have the pleasure of watching the fledglings grow, molt, squabble, etc. In the winter, they usually flock and I have ten or twelve blues each day. They get to know the time of day that the worms are placed outside and schedule their visits accordingly. Later in the fall, I pull up pokeweed (we call them inkberry around here) and hang it on shepherd's crooks in the yard. I love to watch the blues hovering as they try to eat as many berries as possible before landing and regrouping. Pam in Harford County, Maryland -----Original Message----- ... Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:47:46 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA I have been feeding mealworms since early Spring. My bluebirds have all fledged and only return to the yard occasionally. Would it be okay to stop feeding mealworms now - especially since I really haven't seen who is actually eating them. Do most people stop feeding them in the Fall and start again in the Spring? We do have blues here all year long.... Thanks From: "Pat Foley" removed at users request Annie ... From: "Karen Louise Lippy" brdbrain"at"superpa.net I agree with the general consensus that feeding mealworms is not necessary. But training your birds to come to a feeder can be very helpful to them in winter if snow should cover food resources for a few days and in early spring during cold, wet weather. By providing occasional feedings and training your birds to respond to a whistled call, you can provide this supplemental food during hard times. Most times, the birds can survive without it, but there is always that extremely frigid winter or particularlly nasty spring. If you have not been providing mealworms,at least occasionally, the birds will not know where to look when the times are tough. Karen from South Central PA From: "Pat Foley" removed at users request What do people think of those roasted mealworms? My bluebirds seem to only like the real live thing. Pat Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:39:37 -0700 I had great success with mealworms for years. The bluebirds for years used the mealworm feeder I had for them exclusively. The parents demanded them, fed them to youngsters and they were a great way for me to keep an eye on progress of fledgings as parents would later bring them to the feeder about two to three weeks after fledging. All went well until the resident mockingbird discovered the feeder and that the mealies would escape after awhile. The mocker claimed the mealworm feeder and targeted the bluebirds specifically whenever they were in the yard, wouldn't tolerate them sitting on the nestboxes. This was even true after I stopped with the feedings. Bluebirds this year for the first time abandoned my yard. After watching this activity carefully, there is no doubt in my mind that the mocker targeted only the bluebirds. The wrens could sneak around the feeder, so could the house finches, no big deal. But the bluebirds in the eyes of the mocker were a serious threat. Bob Harlow Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:51:34 -0700 Dear Friends, In all the years that I've been bluebirding I have never used mealworms. Now maybe I'm missing out on some fun and bonding, but I'm content in just supplying the nest boxes, perches in the vineyards, birdbaths, and a wine barrel fountain (filled with water not wine) in the middle of our front yard. In our back yard, I'm building another larger ground fountain with cascading falls, rocks and bluebird friendly foliage. This fountain should be ready before the 2003 nesting season. Occasionally I'll make up my suet receipt for winter feeding, but again, I do not want the bluebirds to be to overly depended on me. By giving the bluebirds water for drinking and bathing, I encourage them to stick around so they can consume the insects in the vineyard and not expect free hand outs of meal worms. Seems to have worked over the years and I can look outside at one of our bird baths or that big wine barrel fountain out front and see a bluebird or even flocks of bluebirds drinking fresh water and taking baths. By the way my wine barrel fountain is a self contained system that has a water trough level (in the front barrel) so if the water level drops the valve turns on and refills the front barrel so that all the wine barrels stay at the same level. The pump is on all the time and each wine barrel dumps water into the wine barrel below it by means of a pipe. The water that comes out of the pipe, splash on a large rock that I placed in the middle of the wine barrel which protrudes above the water line. The bluebirds just love this fountain and just the other day I saw roughly 15 bluebirds jumping on the rocks, splashing, and drinking water to their hearts content. That to me is more fun, the cost is minimal and more important the bluebirds forage for food in our vineyards (or a garden) as God intended. Happy Bluebird Trails To You, Pamela Ford wrote: I agree with you completely, Bruce. I live in Maryland as Ann does ... From: Bluburder"at"aol.com Last fall I had extra mealworms so I froze some in a shallow tray and kept
them in a jar in the freezer. During the winter when there was snow on the
ground the bluebirds would perch nearby waiting for mealworms. I would dump some
in the feeder and the bluebirds would be in the feeder before I could get back
in the house. They would swallow the worms while they were frozen stiff.
Chickadees ate them too but would just take one and fly away to eat it. From: "Pam Tellier" wknight"at"erols.com I recently posted regarding parents rejecting older babies and 3 babies suddenly not returning to my feeder. Well one question is answered. I went looking in the area I saw them last and found 1 dead baby EABL. I couldn't keep looking but I am sure the other 2 must be dead as well. I cannot understand what would cause 3 to die suddenly like that. Also it had to be due to disease and not a predator. I am wondering if feeding the mealies had anything to do with it. Maybe they were depending on that and their parents, and when the parents rejected them for the new babies the mealies were not enough to sustain them. Or maybe the mealies were bad. I am devastated and feeling as if my messing with nature has caused them to die. The first clutch of 5 died at day 10. Now the second clutch of 4 (1 died a couple of weeks ago and I noticed it had an injury that made it limp) have died at age 2 months from leaving the nest. They have 2 more fledglings (4-5 days old), but given this pair's history these babies chances can't be great. Out of 13 eggs, 7 nestlings, and 6 fleglings, they may end up with 2 successes. I drove to the nest box everyday to feed mealies and now I feel like I did them a harm. Should I keep feeding mealies to this last batch. I don't think I can take anymore disappointments. I get them from Sunshine. Has anyone else thought there might be a problem. I welcome any thoughts or words of encouragement. This is the first year i have fed mealies and been able to follow the birds so close. Perhaps that was my only mistake. Maybe I just never new the slim chances the birds have. Pam in MD From: "Jim Alexander" alextree"at"rochester.rr.com Pam, It certainly is disappointing to lose so many babies when you have tried to do the right thing for them. Don't give up on the other two from the second nest. The bluebirds that live in my backyard "adopted" someone else's babies a few weeks ago, and got them to help feed their latest family! Also, as distressing as it is to lose the babies, keep in mind that if all the babies from every nest survived, eventually we'd be overrun. It is nature's way that not all survive, and usually it is the weaker ones that don't make it. Good luck with that last nest -- hopefully they'll do fine. Mary Lou Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 14:16:41 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Pam, two thumbs up to your mealworm feeding. When I first started bluebirding, I never fed mealworms to the birds on my trail. Even struggling single parents weren't helped because old-timers said bluebirds could do just fine on their own. That year, 20% of my hatchlings did not fledge--of course, those losses were not all because mealworms, it was a combination of "textbook" advice and errors. Later, I began to offer mealworms during trail checkups and regular mealworms to boxes in trouble (single parents). More trail experience in addition to the mealworms at troubled sites reduced the losses to about 15%. This year, a wonderful retired gentleman took mealworms around to boxes on my established 40-box trail to help out week old nestlings (time of high food demand). And this year, the losses on the mealworm-fed portion of the trail were reduced to about 7%. I believe the extra food helped reduce parental stress, reduced the need for parents to take chances during foraging and minimized the time they spent away from the nestbox. Will bluebirds become dependent on them? Not by what I've seen. Natural foods are preferred. I've got a few cups of leftover mealworms that I'm trying to pass off to the now-independent bluebird families. They will fly over and take a polite few but not greedily. Remember to keep your mealworms in good condition with fresh bran and add
carrot chunks for moisture. Cover with a few layers of damp paper towels. Pam Tellier wrote: From: "Pat Foley" removed at users request Pam Perhaps it was nothing that you did, and is a result of the west nile virus? After all, mosquitos are not discriminating which birds they are biting, are they? If crows and raptors can get it, why not bluebirds? I can't imagine it would be your mealworms. I worry about my fledglings too, but we can take comfort in that we did what we could. Pat ... From: "Pam Tellier" wknight"at"erols.com Thanks for all your input and advice. I guess I won't give up yet. I'll keep feeding for now and see what else happens since you all seem to think it couldn't be the meal worms. I do store them in corn meal in the fridg, however, is that a problem. Pam In MD Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 10:18:02 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA Also remember that only 50% of fledged babies even make it to adulthood with
many of those deaths occurring when the fledglings are still young. This has
been a really quirky year for lots of bluebirders with lots of unexplained
deaths. And too many deaths!!! Hang in there, you've had a "bad" year, but
honestly you've done everything right. You are part of the quirk. So chin up
and know you are doing a terrific job!!!!!!!! :-) H From: DottyRogers"at"netscape.net I wonder if we're going to have another instance of feeding making the crucial difference. Nan's been feeding currants all winter and still has her (extremely territorial) EABL family group of about five birds. --I haven't seen or heard anything else around town, and "should be" by now. It looks as though feeding made a substantial difference in first brood survival throughout last spring. (Raw, killingly-cold and wet). .... Dot; eastern Mass From: judymellin, judymellin"at"netzero.net As folks in the southern climes are beginning to see activity around the nest boxes, the time is here to raise your cholesterol! Many of us put out eggshells to aid the females during egg-laying so now it the time for all good men and women to come to the aid of the birds! This information on preparing eggshells for the birds is a combination of facts from the Nest Box Network handbook from Cornell and my practical experience. “Book learnin” only goes so far! Females of most species store calcium in the skeleton before egg laying and use it during egg production. However, it takes more than they store for each egg so they must make up the excess need from diet. That’s where we come in! Wash the shells after you use the eggs and keep them refrigerated until you have time to bake them. You want to be sure there are no traces of salmonella so bake them for about 10 minutes in a 250-degree oven. I do this after I’ve made supper so be sure your oven will be available for a while. The shells get EXTREMELY hot and hold the heat for a long time so I leave them in overnight to cool. I bake a lot of them all at once so I use two oven liners with a single layer on each liner. After they cool, I store them in doubled plastic grocery bags and crush them as I go (that’s the fun part!) I have a remote area where I monitor so I have to carry everything with me. I crush the shells to about pea size although larger birds like crows and jays will take half shells away. And, if the birds don’t eat them all, the lime they add to your soil as they decompose is great! Don’t worry about leaving them out too long as birds are smart and know what is safe and not safe to eat. Some people spread them on the ground but, again because of the habitat I monitor in, I put them on tree stumps or fallen logs. I see ever ground feeders take them from a slight height. I replenish on a weekly basis and am amazed at how many shells are eaten. Some certainly blow away but I see very few on the ground around my stations so I know the birds are making good use of them! As a matter of fact, when we burn our grassland, it is fascinating to see the patterns of the shells around the boxes! Don’t cook or eat enough eggs? Well, it’s a real conversation starter when you ask folks at work or church to save them for you. Most buy into this very quickly and follow your progress. Or, if there is a small restaurant near you that specializes in breakfast, ask them to save them for you for a day. And then you’ll have reason for another list: state, county, backyard and eggshell species! Good luck and good birding! From: PTom, ptom"at"austin.rr.com Has anyone researched cooking the eggshells to crush for birds in the microwave, rather than baking them at 250 degrees for 10 minutes? Pauline Tom Mountain City (no mountains) TX From: Keith & Sandy Kridler, txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net I know that Cornell and others recommend cooking chicken eggshells to kill salmonella. This is because most laying hens already have this organism in their intestines by the billions....As do most other wild birds, fish and most other creatures. This is one of the most common living organisms living on your counter or in your favorite restaurant. What I would like to see someone do is to cook these eggshells for the 10 minutes and then take them outside and wet them down with water from a puddle, rain water or even a clean birdbath. Wait a couple of warm days and then submit them to a health inspector to do tests to see what organisms and how many are right back living in these eggshells spread on the driveway, stump or shelf ! We bake bread and it gets many types of molds or fungus in a couple of days exposed to air in our house. We cook potato salad with boiled eggs and sitting out at a family picnic a couple of warm hours later it is laced with salmonella that came from somewhere! I am not saying NOT to cook these shells but if they are only going to be sterile for 10 minutes and then poured on the ground what are we really doing this for? Who sterilizes the billions of bird eggs being laid and eaten out in the wild? Common sense tells me that if I saw my dentist sterilize his dental picks and then lay them outside on a busy birdfeeding shelf that I would search for another dentist! The white streaks you will see shortly on your bluebird eggs are Feces from the female bluebird. I am thinking that this may sound good and make us feel better but let a health inspector do this simple test or simply have Cornell look into this issue a little closer scientifically. We have West Nile virus, two strains of Avian bird flu, Newcastle disease and the eye disease affecting finches along with many other pathogens killing birds in North America right now so it is always a good idea to sterilize your bird baths & bird feeders but bad "bugs" start growing in our sterile foods as soon as they cool down. To me this is right up there with washing your hands in a public bathroom where only 35% of the people actually wash THEIR hands and then you having to pull open the nasty door knob with your clean hands! KK From: Success Unlimited My sister was told by three different people that she should not feed birds for this reason. I have a bluebird pair that have taken over the yard. I have two paired boxes on our property. Tree swallows were in one box and the other paired were empty. They drove the swallows out - I quess they wanted that particular box Why wouldn't they pair or at least take one of the other empty boxes. They are beautiful bluebirds - I think the male is from a brood from last year. Do brothers and sisters mate? I hope this year is successful. Last year 4 babies were fat and healthy. Thanks for your answers - hope I hear soon. Jean Hamman-Moore Northern Michigan From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"tds.net] Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 7:51 PM Subject: Re: Jean, et al, I have never heard that bird droppings were harmful to dogs. It sounds like an Old Wives' Tale to me. Bruce Burdett, SW NH From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"tds.net] Jean, et al, This is not science, because I'm not a scientist. Let's just call it pseudo-science. I suppose that if a dog, - or a person for that matter - were to eat a whole dog-dish full of concentrated bird droppings, it would not be good for him at all. Might even kill him. But in the real world, droppings are 1.) very widely dispersed in infinitesimal quantities, and, 2.) quickly diluted, bio-degraded and neutralized. I doubt that a dog, in the normal course of events, would ever be exposed to enough concentrated droppings to affect him even slightly. All of us have been living, since the day we were born, in a world where trillions of birds (and other creatures) have been dropping their feces and urine. On the other hand, there are a number of good reasons not to feed birds from April through September. Examples: the birds don't need it at all, and the bears, 'coons, etc. will destroy your feeders. I take down all my feeders for the summer on April Fool's Day. I'm even doubtful that birds need to be fed in the winter, but that's a whole different subject. I feed them simply because it's entertaining to watch them at close range. .... Bruce Burdett, SW NH From: Anne Jones [mailto:ac.jones"at"comcast.net] There are some fungal diseases...such as Histoplasmosis... that affects dogs and people....the source is thought to be bird droppings...antother one Blastomycosis is "ubiquitous"...meaning its "every where" or "we don't have clue"...but may have similar transmission as Histo.... It seems to take a massive accumulations of bird poop to cause these sorts of things...(the kind one sees when masses of starlings and grackle gathering...or under bridges where alot off pidgeons nest)... and "our" birds are wild so they do have "wild bird diseases". I think Dottie hits the nail on the head... LESSON ONE: Good hygiene for birds and dogs is always the best policy !! ANOTHER RISK (unfortunately had PERSONAL experience with this) and another god reason to keep does out of feeding areas...or at least monitor what ois going on....high winds blew down a recently filled feeder last December....before I realized it was down...my female Siberian got into the spilled seed before I realized anything was amiss. I wasn't sure how much she had gotten, but she was very thirsty afterwards....my experience when she has licked up spilled seed before (she likes to hang around when I am filling feeders)....was that it simply passed on through...so no need to worry ...right ?...WRONG !!!!...by that evening she was in severe abdominal distress and by the next day it was clear that she had a bowel impaction....which required surgery...she had 15" of SOLID seed blocking her distal small intestine...was extremely toxic...the whole experience was quite costly ($$ and emotionally !) and I nearly lost my wonderful girl !!! We will continue to feed the birds, but this winter we are going to put some sort of decorative fence around the feeding area to keep the dogs out LESSON TWO: Keep a close eye on ALL the "kids" (dogs cats birds and what ever else); sometimes one hobby puts another one at risk, and you never know what silly thing they will get into !!! From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com] Jean, I have raised dogs & feed birds most of my adult life (ain't telling how loonng that's been!), and I've never seen any problem between the two. In the first place, for the bird's health, the droppings should never be allowed to accumulate to the point that you would ever see them! Cleanliness please! In the second place, preferably the dogs are in the house or an area where they are not in contact with the birds. I have had subscriptions to most of the dog magazines, have read many books, and saw the veterinarian frequently. I can't recall hearing of any problems about feeding birds. However, since birds can carry disease, especially when they are confined in large numbers (chicken factories), your sister may just want to be extra cautious about not allowing the dogs access to the bird feeders. Has her veterinarian given her a warning? Would be interested to know if there has been some late-breaking news about birds/dogs that I haven't heard. Dottie Roseboom Peoria IL (central - zone 5 From: ACJ [mailto:ac.jones"at"comcast.net] Hi all- 1 - I am looking for recommendation as to the best thing to use for clenaing feeders, birdbaths and nest boxes. Anyone have any recommndations ? I looked at the local Wild Birds Unlimited...they have a spray bottle of stuff that was $20. Need somethign to clean disinfect and htat won't harm the birds. 2 - Also, Is something like an orange oil based insecticide OK ?...its supposed to be non- toxic to small animals and biodegradable ...but it doesn't say anything about birds ! I've noticed that when I clean boxes out I have found ants...wasn't sure if this would work on (or to prevent blow flies as well )? THANKS ! Anne Jones, Flower Mound, TX From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com] Hi Anne, In the fall, I use a putty knife, wire brush, and a stiff paint brush to dislodge all visible dirt from nestboxes. I have never used disinfectants - I don't believe that they are good for me or the birds. As I have never seen mites, blowfly larvae, lice, etc, in any of the nestboxes, I don't see a need to take a chance on using anything that might be harmful. I use a variety of methods to PREVENT ants from climbing the nestbox pole - once again, why use even a "safe" insecticide? Some ant preventives: use silicone spray on the pole, or wrap a short piece of florist tape around the pole and put "tangle foot" on the tape, or use several strips of double-sided tape on the pole. Dottie Roseboom Peoria IL (central - zone 5) From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net]
For cleaning bird baths, hummingbird feeders and bird feeders for seed, use common house hold bleach (6% Sodium Hypoclorite) at 3/4 cup bleach per gallon of water, soak for five minutes or more and rinse thoroughly. To kill ants, lice, mites and other non stinging, non biting insects in nestboxes simply use warm soapy water. A few tablespoons of dish soap in a gallon of water will drown most small insects. To kill wasps in a nestbox you would need to use a good pump up sprayer with soapy water and then they still might get to you to sting you! The only over the counter insecticide you should use is one of the caged bird sprays made specifically for canaries, or parrots or other small birds. Follow the directions on the bottle or can and this can be used on wasp nests at night in a nestbox. A one or two second burst of spray into the wasp nest and then RUN! Disinfecting bird feeders and bird baths is important because disease is spread between many different species of birds that might be hundreds of miles away in a few days carrying germs to other bird baths and bird feeders. Disinfecting a solitary nestbox would not help as many different birds as very sick birds are not concerned with nesting and egg laying. For nestboxes in your yard if you want to clean the nestbox simply open it up and soak it with a water hose. Wait while it soaks and then simply spray it clean with water. There are probably as many helpful organisms in the average nestbox as there are harmful ones. Even ants attack and kill mites, lice and other small parasites in the box and they remove food that the birds won't eat. If you remove the old nest and most of the nesting material with a putty knife the nestbox is ready for the next nesting! The disinfectant and killing the lice in a bluebird nestbox is really for your comfort as the birds are still covered in them and will reinfest the box the next time they return! Purple Martin houses need more care because many martin families use the same apartment building for most of the summer and disease and insects spread from one family to the next quicker with many life cycles of insects hatching out. KK From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net]
Few people still raise their own chickens for eggs anymore and fewer still produce their own milk. Diet and day length have a HUGE effect on the quality and amount of milk or eggs produced. Eggs can be shipped from anywhere in the country today. Gary Springer north of Atlanta Georgia last week was eating eggs while we visited on the phone and I had him check the egg carton and he found out his eggs came from a Pilgrim Poultry egg farm just south of Mt. Pleasant Texas.... Try to buy eggs from a few different egg producers according to the egg license stamped on each box of eggs. It is common for Texas eggs to be shipped to British Columbia or Florida or New Jersey and Northern produced eggs shipped to the south.... Try a box of the super high Amino Acid/high mineral eggs like Eggs Plus from Pilgrim's or one of the other "Super heart healthy" brand of eggs. These hens are fed a special diet to produce these super enriched eggs. Try to find local chicken eggs from someone's backyard flock that free roams and feeds on grass, weeds and insects.... Most egg packers will put eggs in 40 to 60 different brand name cartons.....Our local creamery to produce butter ships more than 40 brands of butter from the same herd of cows:-))) Crack eggs from about four different sources and compare color of the yolks and viscosity of the egg whites. Cook them without fats or butter and compare flavor of the different eggs and you will see that different diets effect taste, color, texture and smell from the same species of birds only fed a different diet. Same goes for milk produced from different foods. Diet has a huge effect on the thickness of the eggshells to the amount of calcium in the milk. Highest production of eggs in a bird may not be the best diet to produce viable eggs for hatching out young birds! Whether it is a chicken or a bluebird the female needs a balanced diet rich in calcium, vitamins and minerals to produce a healthy chick. Just for fun offer your bluebirds mealworms, crickets, June bugs or spiders and see if they will eat a varied diet if other insects are available in your mealworm feeder! You can capture insects at night by hanging a light over a five gallon bucket with a little water in the bottom of the bucket. Freeze the insects captured and place on a shelf along with freeze killed mealworms. A video camera focused on the tray of insects would record which birds feed on what types of insects.....Share your findings with the list! KK From: Steve Murphy Home [mailto:thcri"at"qwest.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 7:31 AM Subject: Feeding and Vacation How does every one else feed blue birds. I can put feed out there all day long and they will be there to eat. I don't want to over do it so I have resorted to once in the morning and once in the evening. I have a job during the day do that is about it. But now this week-end coming up I will be gone for three days. Do I gradually back even more yet otherwise I am afraid they will get to depended on me. Any advice would be appreciated. Steve Murphy (aka the pest) From: markmele"at"att.net [mailto:markmele"at"att.net] Sometimes I put out a handful of dried blueberries in the early morning and let them feast all day. They usually clear the table in a few hours. It's interesting watching the adult males dive at the youngsters keeping them away from the berries forcing them to hunt for food on their own; they still manage to get a couple of berries when dad is away from the area. Just a side note; I have never fed them mealworms. From: lviolett [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net] When people in Orange County, Calif. call Vector Control about rats, they are told to take down their bird feeders. Bird feeders are the #1 cause of rats in our area. Vector won't put out bait (poison) traps until homeowners cooperate. Need I mention that poisoned rats will cause secondary poisoning of raptors? From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 8:15 AM Subject: fire ants in nestboxes Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas If there are enough of any species of ants in a nestbox then they can create a problem for the baby birds or stress out the adult birds to the point they don't clean the nestbox as well as they should or they don't feed the young like they should. Fire Ants can and do attack and kill young birds. They will take over a nest with eggs and can be seen crawling all over the unhatched eggs. Once the baby birds pip a tiny hole in the shell the fire ants can enter this hole and actually clean out the entire baby bird before it ever gets to break out of the egg. I asked two of the callers to remove the nestboxes from the (1 tree trunk) Most of these people do something and then in a few hours or days decide to call and see if they did the right thing:-)) I had the tree and wood post boxes moved off of the wood and onto a greased steel mounting pole near the original location and the ants were brushed off the baby birds (pin Spraying a wide circle of insecticide under and around the base of the one pole seemed to get rid of all of the ants in the one nestbox in a couple of days, the baby birds acted fine but now they were worried about poison affecting the adult birds. They did not know what poison they actually used, just something from the garage. It was interesting that ALL of these people noticed that the adult bluebirds were agitated and flying around the nestboxes BECAUSE when they went out to add mealworms to the feeders that they saw the bluebirds acting "different". I am NOT a big fan of feeding mealworms BUT this habit creates a bond between the backyard bluebird landlord and the bluebirds and they ALL actually know their own birds habits by doing this everyday and notice a small change in behavior. Without this bond between human and bird there is no telling how many more nests would fail and they would NEVER actually know. You all with a little extra time might want to start making and selling mealworm feeders and growing and selling mealworms. I always thought cell phones were an expensive joke when they first came out and that NO one would want to be bugged 24-7. I had NO idea that mealworms would be as popular as they are. KK [see rest of thread related to post below under Hand Feeding] From: Paula Ziebarth [mailto:paulaz"at"columbus.rr.com] Herb, This is an interesting question. I suppose technically backyard birdfeeding stations are the same as your little handout in the park to some degree. I think the potential problem with feeding wildlife is the food that is fed and whether the animals rely on it to survive. Let me give you an example of an appalling thing I saw. At a very crowded amusement park in central Ohio, at a concession area, I observed people throwing bits and pieces of their meal to a pair of Canada Geese and their goslings. These birds were being fed chicken nuggets and enjoying them immensely. That is not a healthy diet for a goose. These geese should be eating grass. How are the goslings going to develop on a diet of chicken nuggets? And then there is the obvious problem of nuisance and hygiene concerns with a bunch of large birds getting a bit demanding and defecating where people eat. I was chasing the birds away and the family next to me was giving them a McDonald's Happy Meal. Now what happens in the winter when the amusement park is deserted? Perhaps those goslings grew to be a bit unhealthy on that summer diet of chicken nuggets and can't fly very far or never learned how to forage - now what happens to them? Recently I went to a fancy resort in the Bahamas. Signs were posted everywhere to tell people not to feed the birds. There were quite a few birds there, but they stayed away from the outdoor restaurant areas because people read the signs and didn't feed the birds. No nuisance. Healthy wildlife. I look at backyard birdfeeding in winter months differently. I offer foods that should be a healthy diet (no chicken nuggets) and that help to sustain many different species during some very severe cold snaps like we are having right now. I got a call last night from a man near me who found a nestbox full of dead EABL. They had frozen to death due to our severely cold temperatures. I feed a high energy suet mix to my overwintering EABL here and they are doing well. I hear EABL song every time I step out back to fill the feeder. I think helping the birds build up their fat stores can make the difference between life and death on winter nights that have wind chills below zero. Our daytime temperatures have mostly been in the single digits for a couple of weeks now. Paula Z |
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