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Bluebird feeding - Philosophy (Part 4)In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website:
From: "College Town" collegetown"at"I-55.com This is the first year I have seen blue birds. They def. seem to be building in a birdhouse my husband had given me. I have it hanging in a tree. I live in an apartment complex so that makes it even more unusual as it seems most of you have trails. I have plants in my yard and to bird feeders so I always have black birds, regular brown birds (I don't know what they are), chickadees, doves, the hummers are back and now a pair of blue birds. Do I need to get mealworm for them? If so, what is it? Where do I get it and where do I put it so the birds can get it? Thanks for your help. Also please tell me the correct way to respond to a post? Do I need to send it to Blue Bird-L and in the subject line put the subject info. of the original post? From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant Most of the 300 people on this list remove old nests. Most of the "average" people placing nestboxes and cute "birdhouses" clean out or look in their boxes about once a year! Our cavity nesting birds are used to finding cavities filled with nesting material as natural cavities are never cleaned out. Woodpeckers and Starlings routinely clean out any suitable cavity they find in spring time even if they never end up using it for a nesting site. Chickadees and nuthatches will also clean out cavities or even make their own in very rotted wood. Bluebirds on the other hand will often just rework a mouse/flying squirrel nest or build over other old nests and they will also use old House Sparrow nests and lay their eggs in these. Unless you look closely you may be throwing out the eggs of any number of cavity nesting birds thinking you have just help rid the earth of a House Sparrow! To me a Tree Swallow nest resembles a Texas House Sparrow nest and yes sometimes the sparrows lay practically white eggs! Song Sparrows historically were common cavity nesters. In a 1912 book the author lamented that "amateur" birders were exterminating the song sparrow by removing all of their nests from boxes thinking that these birds were House Sparrows! Great Crested Flycatchers in my area build a trashy nest and lay speckled eggs similar to the house Sparrow. I normally only trap House Sparrows when they are actively building or constantly using a nest site. Just this spring I have already live trapped Carolina Chickadee's, Tufted Titmice and numerous Eastern Bluebirds in ACTIVE House Sparrow nests. It only takes a second for these birds to hop into a nestbox while the sparrows are away to inspect the cavity for a nesting site. Only a tiny percentage of House Sparrow VS native cavity nester encounters end in a battle to the death. I AGGRESSIVELY trap house sparrows along my trails! I remove the House Sparrow nest to install the Van Ert live trap and then replace the nest in the box. With luck this might let me find a once in a lifetime Song Sparrow using one of my boxes! This spring I watched 5 different species of birds inspect and enter a single nestbox in a 30 minute period so these birds are constantly inspecting all cavities in the area! Before you toss any nest check for native cavity nester eggs and try to positively identify the adult birds using the box. KK Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:10:15 -0600 Are mealworms a factor in bluebirds nesting a little earlier than they should? (Ready availability of food when weather is still cold nature would normally still be somewhat skimpy with insect supply?) Kate Oschwald Rob Yaksich Good morning all - a glorious and warm morning here in the sunny Southwest. A good number of mountain bluebirds seem to spend their winters in parts of
the southern Rockies. Just southeast of Santa Fe is the city's wastewater So in this stretch of the Rockies, we're blessed with MOBLs all year long. RY ===== Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:06:56 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA Kate Oschwald wrote: Are mealworms a factor in bluebirds nesting a little earlier than they ... PS: nest earlier and have an extra brood! :-) H (note added "PS" to previous Message)Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:29:00 -0800 (PST) Hello all, I feed mealies all year on both my Indiana and Illinois nestbox trail. This
will be my first full season on my Illinois trail so I don't know when I'll see
the first EABL egg laid there. In Indiana however, the earliest first EABL egg
laid has been April 2nd. New Nest building has started as early as February
10th. I have found that egg laying begins when the Redbud and Dogwood trees just
start showing red and white blossoms respectively. This budding event seems to
give the female EABL a 'signal' that the freezing temps may be finished. Feeding
mealies has many benefits....allows the female to incubate longer, keeps her out
of harms way during the critical egg incubation time period, improves survival
rate of the nestliings and fledglings, yields larger broods (5-7 eggs) and has
assured 3 EABL broods on my Indiana trail. The Indiana trail has had first EABL
eggs laid as late as AUGUST 2nd. Feeding mealworms all year and good EABL
habitat are a good combination. Have a good day Bob Sitarski a.k.a The Doctor Jackson County Indiana & Clay County Illinois Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:50:41 -0600 At 01:06 PM 3/23/02 -0400, you wrote: ... Haleya, I wasn't necessarily meaning this was a good thing! We see posts every year about early bluebird nests that are at risk due to cold--the cold isn't unseasonable, it sounds like mealworms might coax bluebirds into nesting TOO early. Kate Oschwald Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:02:58 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA How do other early nesters (especially the mealworm/suet fed) bluebirds fair around the country??? Please don't read that I think everyone ought to feed mealworms - it is a personal choice and there are many advantages to NOT feeding as well. I only feed 2 pair out of 35 boxes. :-) H Kate Oschwald wrote: At 01:06 PM 3/23/02 -0400, you wrote: ... From: "emcooper" emcooper"at"bayou.com This pair in #3 has always nested very early before I ever started feeding them. I think it is great to feed them in the Winter to help sustain them during cold weather. Evelyn Cooper ... From: "Pauline, Mountain City TX" bluebirds"at"austin.rr.com There were no mealworms out when a bluebird egg was laid on February 17th. I did feed mealworms - especially when we had hard freezes. Keith Kridler advised me that the parents would have a hard time finding insects during freezes. Pauline Tom, Mountain City TX ----- Original Message ----- ... Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 07:18:48 -0800 (PST) Hello all, I have not found that the EABL lays it's eggs earlier because they are fed mealworms. I feed EABLs mealies all year from 4 feeders. I have 37 nestboxes so obviously not all the Blues that use the nestboxes are aware of or allowed to use the mealworm feeders. During this time of the year only one male and one female EABL show up at each feeder.... the dominant pair in the territory where the feeder is located. The dominant pair has excluded all other EABL competition from their nestbox territory and thus from the feeder. I find that there is virtually no difference between when a mealworm fed Bluebird begins laying eggs and when the non mealie fed EABL lay their first egg. However, I do find that the mealie fed blues have larger and more broods each year. When the non-mealie fed EABL usually begins her 2nd and last nesting in late June, the mealie fed pair will begin a 3rd brood in late July and there was even one started on August 2nd. So I think there is some other trigger mechanism to begin egg laying. I did
see some early budding on crab apple trees and a Magnolia tree. Nothing showing
yet on the Redbuds or the Dogwood trees yet. From what I have observed, it seems
that it is the Blush of the Redbud and white flash of the Dogwoods that initiate
egg laying in the area around my trails. Have a good day Bob Sitarski a.k.a The Doctor Jackson County Indiana & Clay County Illinois Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:06:07 -0500 -- Hello all and "Doctor" Yes - your assumption that there are other 'cues' to egg laying is correct, however a cause-effect relation between budding trees and laying is highly unlikely. Protein source and availability, as you point to in your data, and it very strongly correlates with laying, number of eggs or broods etc. Blooming , as well as laying, has a strong correlation with day length. In the birds, the formation of the neurohormone melatonin decreases dramatically as spring rolls around - inducing gonadal changes in both sexes and mating behavior. It is derived from the amino acid tryptophan. I think the most important take home Message is to feed protein as early and keep making it available as much as you can! Have fun all! From: The Doctor sytyf"at"yahoo.com ... From: "dean sheldon" dsheldonjr"at"hotmail.com This is Mel Bolt's take on the questions raised by The Doctor on the List.
From: "Melvin Bolt" mellen"at"sssnet.com ----- Original Message ----- Mel: That is just an excellent review of the situation. Would you mind if I
... From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net At the beginning of each meal, serve ice cream, cake, candy, Coke, potato chips, chocolate chip cookies and the other favorite deserts of children and although we may make them happy, we are actually harming them because they will eat less nutritious food than children who are served only nutritious foods with their meals. Similarly, although many species of birds consume seeds instead of insects when presented with the option of eating seeds all summer long, this doesn't mean it is good for birds to feed them seed during months when there are plenty of insects available. Many cardinals, titmice, chickadees, jays and other birds will continue to consume seeds as their primary food throughout the entire summer when we provide seeds for them. Yes, the consumption of bird seed at many back yard bird feeders does decline during the summer months. But, is this decline a function of the birds changing food preferences and requirements or is this decline a function of territorial breeding competition between birds which causes them to spread out across the entire available breeding landscape and limits the number of birds that have unfettered access to feeders? Regardless of whether the reason for this decline in consumption of seeds is the result of changing food preferences by birds or some other reason, summer feeding of seeds to birds causes them to eat fewer insects at a time when insects are readily available as an alternate and probably more nutritious food supply. Birds are one of natures primary means of insect control. Therefore, reducing the number of birds that consume, or even reducing the extent to which they rely upon insects for food reduces the efficiency of natural insect control and increases the need for pesticide use. It seems quite likely that the quantity of insects not eaten by birds during the summer months because of man made availability of seeds during this season is roughly equal to the weight of the seed provided and eaten by birds during the summer months. I do not know what this quantity is but for illustrative purposes, assume that the quantity of commercial bird seed that will be provided to and eaten by wild birds during the summer of 2002 when insects are readily available for consumption by birds is one hundred million pounds, an amount I believe is conservative. The first effect of feeding this seed is to directly increase the life expectancy of one hundred million pounds of insects in our yards, forests, fields and gardens. If the birds in your yard eat 50 pounds of bird seed this summer, recognize that there will be 50 pounds more insects munching on you, your pets, your lawn and the plants in the vicinity of your home. But, the increase of insect populations caused by feeding bird seed one summer is larger than this first one hundred million pounds of insects. If the feeding of seed were discontinued in early spring when weather became mild, many of those insects that survived the cold of winter would have been eaten by birds when they became active, thus preventing them from reproducing. Therefore, one seed eaten by a chickadee in March will have potentially saved the life of not only one insect but dozens, hundreds, or thousands more of that insects offspring the first year and potentially millions thereafter. In fact, one meal provided by a couple sunflower seeds may have prevented the chickadee from eating a thousand tiny insects as they were in the process of hatching from a single egg cluster. Therefore, the actual impact of extending the life of one hundred million pounds of insects that go uneaten by birds that instead eat one hundred million pounds of bird seed given to them by well-meaning bird enthusiasts could easily result in an increase in insect populations by summer end of billions of pounds of insects. The result of increasing insect populations are many and varied and range from increased damage to crops, forest, lawns, and decorative plants to health consequences. This year populations of tent caterpillars in the region around my property
in North Georgia were higher than normal. This insect prefers black cherry Because summer feeding of bird seed reduces the effectiveness of natures primary mechanism to keep insect populations in check, and because we are an insect intolerant and insect phobic society, another result of this unnecessary recreational bird feeding is increased pesticide use. This increase in pesticide use begins with the pesticide sprayed by the seed producers on the plants grown to produce the one hundred million pounds of bird seed unnecessarily fed to birds during the summer months and continues across the landscape by property owners who resort to pesticide use to control the increase in insect populations caused by summer feeding of bird seed. Yet another good reason not to feed seeds during the summer months is that in many cases feeding bird seed reduces the effectiveness of our yards as breeding areas for birds. We are well aware of the shortage of nesting sites for some birds so we erect fine nest boxes and nesting platforms making our yards the safest places for many birds to breed. But backyard feeding during the breeding season concentrates the attention of owls, hawks, snakes, cowbirds, house sparrows, raccoons and other animals that reduce the chances for successful nesting in our yards by not only the birds that eat the seeds but also the many warblers, vireos and other birds we may rarely notice. Not only is the risk of nest failure increased by attracting predators, but also, birds, quite aware of the risks associated with nesting in areas of excess activity, will often shun nest boxes situated too near active feeders thereby further reducing the effectiveness of our backyards as breeding areas. Because birds must breed during the summer and because they do not need seed during the summer, our backyard assistance to birds is far more effective if we abstain from summer feeding and instead provide a greatly needed bird breeding sanctuary. As with most activities in which we participate for enjoyment, temperance is a virtue. As much as we enjoy watching birds take advantage of our seed gifts, and, as hard as it is to watch our feathered friends searching in vain for seeds at empty summer feeders, because summer feeding of seeds has a negative impact on ecology, the environment, backyard breeding success and possibly even the health of the birds that favor seeds over insects, it is best not to feed seeds when insects are plentiful much the same as it is improper to serve ice cream to young children before dinner. Gary Springer From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net Hi Phil, You wrote: And the idea that we "overfeed" birds at our feeders doesn't hold up to me.
Sort of like the old wives tale that leaving our hummer feeders up will
encourage them to "not migrate." Birds do what they have to do to stay alive,
and will undoubtedly take the less stressful route. But becoming dependent upon
feeders is not going to happen. It is only a supplement. Dear Phil, I presume you are responding to my post about summer feeding. If so, I didn't use the word "overfeed" or suggest this is a possibility. I also didn't write that birds become "dependent" on feeders. Dependency would suggest that if we stopped providing seeds the birds would have less to eat and I've written that the birds don't need our seed gifts during the summer because there are so many insects available. Nor do I see any similarities between believing in the myth that birds will not migrate when given food and understanding that a bird would eat more insects if it were not given seeds. It's a matter of options, seeds or insects. And, if seeds are provided during the summer, the birds often take that option which is unnatural and removes those birds from the ecological system that balances insect populations. So, what I'm saying is that bird feeding in the summer is counterproductive to conservatiuon efforts because it weakens one of the most important ecological systems on the planet. And, our method of solving inbalances in this ecology that results in more insects is more insecticides and this harms birds. So, how long do you suppose we will be holding onto this new myth that feeding bird seed in the summer is helping birds? Why not stop using the harvest of our fields in ways that harm our environment and instead send those hundred million pounds of seeds over seas to feed starving children? It might not be as relaxing or entertaining to feed starving children or to watch birds tumble about far distant tree branches in search of insects to eat as it is to watch birds come to within a few feet of our windows to eat seeds. But, I believe it would be the right thing to do . Gary Springer Subject: RE: red-headed woodpecker feeding habits I am responding to the post of e-mails in reference to summer birdfeeding. Birdfeeding is only a supplement to the regular diet of birds. The suggestion that feeding birds in the spring and summer reduces the amount of food (insects) they find and eat naturally causing ecological imbalance seems unlikely. Birds do not typically feed their young bird seed (finches are the exception). It is well known that birds change their diet in the spring and fall. In the spring many fruit eating birds will eat insects and many insect eating birds will eat fruit in the fall as insect populations dwindle and the birds start to migrate. Birdfeeding is a great activity to help encourage people to enjoy and get to know nature. It help bring birds up close that people might not otherwise have the chance to see. If we can share nature with folks, then maybe they will care more about their environment and maybe more people will become active and help make sure there are places for wildlife. If we truly want to help birds, reducing pesticide use and creating and saving habitats seems to me to be part of the answer. Alicia Craig Senior Manager, Nature Education Wild Birds Unlimited, Inc. 11711 N. College Ave. #146 Carmel, IN 46032 317.571.7100 ext 121 mailto:craiga"at"wbu.com http://www.wbu.com http://www.wbu.com/ Visit a list of the wonderful organizations we support http://www.wbu.com/alliances/ Be a Citizen Scientist, visit http://birds.cornell.edu/citsci/ -----Original Message----- ... From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net Hi Connie, You bring up a very important point. Winter feeding of birds is a very important part of keeping bird populations strong and weaning birds off seeds must reflect changes in the weather during early spring. It is well known that ice and snow storms and extremely low temperatures in spring are some of the toughest times for birds. Wild seeds are severely depleted and birds depend heavily on our seed gifts, in many cases for survival. Therefore there is no definitive date or seed reduction rate that can be cited. But, insects do begin to become active when day time highs begin to reach 45 degrees. When it does not freeze during the night or frosts are light and it reaches 50 degrees during the day I begin skipping feeding days and letting all seed run out for periods of up to 2 days or more if it looks like mild weather is here to stay. But, if a cold front comes in and daytime highs drop back to below freezing I crank up the bird seed feeding again, sometimes to levels higher than in mid winter. By the time all leaves are on the trees, most danger of frost is gone and our vegetable gardens have been planted I believe all seed should have already been completely withdrawn. I believe proper management of bird seed feeding should result in forcing birds to hunt vigorously for insects as soon as day time temperatures begin to reach 50 degrees. A frost now and then does not warrant stepping up the seed feeding. Birds can easily get by with eating very little for a day or two if temperatures are reaching 45 degrees during the day and not dropping to the teens or lower at night. And, you would probably be very surprised how active insects are at that point in spring. This is hard advice to follow when you see those cute birds coming for the meals they've been getting all winter long. Last year I kept a small feeder going beside my bedroom window most of the summer in which I fed about a cup of sunflower seeds and a couple tablespoons of peanut butter a couple times a week. That isn't much when considering I fed almost 100 pounds of seed each week all winter long. The birds didn't begin eating less, I reduced the quantities I was feeding with the intention of having the majority of birds earn their living by eating insects. But, the more I observed individual birds the more I realized many of them
couldn't be eating many insects at all because they were eating so many Once you realize birds don't need seeds during the summer and that insects are a huge problem for the forests and wild plants and that the birds are probably better off eating these insects, it gets easy to ignore their pleas as they come chirping at the empty feeders during late spring. Now, because I feed no seed or peanut butter during the summer, all the birds here are earning their keep. The nest boxes are full of titmice, chickadees, and bluebirds actively involved in stripping the trees, grass, and weeds of all sorts of creeping, crawling and flying insects, keeping them in balance the way it was done thousands of years before pesticides were around. Watching this makes winter bird feeding all that more purposeful. Gary Springer PS Thanks for letting me stray off the topic of cavity nesting birds with this matter that I believe to be very important. ----- Original Message ----- Thank you for the information re: summer feeding. I have never thought about From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net Dear Alicia, You wrote: "Birds do not typically feed their young bird seed" If you had written that "birds do not typically feed seed to their nestlings", you would have been closer to the truth. But, when bird enthusiasts provide seed to birds during the summer months, almost all birds that eat seeds commonly feed seeds to their newly fledged young, sometimes very extensively. I believe newly fledged birds are still "their young". And, when seeds are not given to birds during summer, the adults feed these young birds insects and consume insects themselves. You wrote: "It is well known that birds change their diet in the spring and fall. In the spring many fruit eating birds will eat insects and many insect eating birds will eat fruit in the fall as insect populations dwindle and the birds start to migrate." This is true. Notice that the birds eat the food that is available. Birds normally eat very few seeds during the most active breeding season simply because there are very few available, until we began feeding bird seed. This is contrary to the natural change in diet you mentioned and interferes with the ecology of birds and insects which results in the escalation of insect populations and increase in pesticide use. You wrote: "Birdfeeding is a great activity to help encourage people to enjoy and get to know nature. It help bring birds up close that people might not otherwise have the chance to see. If we can share nature with folks, then maybe they will care more about their environment and maybe more people will become active and help make sure there are places for wildlife. " This is true. But as with just about every wonderful activity we engage in, there are proper seasons and improper seasons to do each activity. And, these are guided by reason, not by how much fun or beneficial they are. Why not teach people that the natural system of things is that spring and
especially early summer is breeding season and that birds are And you wrote: "If we truly want to help birds, reducing pesticide use and creating and saving habitats seems to me to be part of the answer." I agree again. This is huge part of the answer. And, not only is practically 100 percent of my disposable income devoted to habitat preservation, but also, my very modest income would explode if profits became more important to me. But, summer feeding of seeds increases the amount of insects and thus the amount of pesticide that will be used. You also wrote: "The suggestion that feeding birds in the spring and summer reduces the amount of food (insects) they find and eat naturally causing ecological imbalance seems unlikely". Please explain to me how reducing the effectiveness of one of natures most important means of insect control does not adversely effect ecological balance? Or, do you believe that reducing birds consumption of insects by hundreds of millions of pounds is just too small to have an impact? If that's the case, all our efforts in bird conservation seem meaningless. As usual, conservation conflicts with profits. Gary Springer ... From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net I must admit an error in my recent post in response to Alicia Craig. In that response I wrote: Alicia wrote: "Birds do not typically feed their young bird seed" In my response in part, I wrote: "when bird enthusiasts provide seed to birds during the summer months, almost all birds that eat seeds commonly feed seeds to their newly fledged young, sometimes very extensively." When I used the adverb "extensively", I was thinking about the cardinal which is a finch and because finches are an exception to the general rule which Alicia cited, it wasn't right to note my experience with this bird in this part of the text. This was an oversight, not intentional. Further, while titmice are led to the feeder at a very early age, I do not recall that adults ever broke down seed into a "mush" as the finches do and deliver them directly to the young birds. But, finches do feed their young insects when seeds are not available. And, I have seen tufted titmice and chickadees take peanut butter into the nest box to feed nestlings, but peanut butter, while not insect, is obviously not seed. But, I stand by everything else I wrote on this topic and this admission does not in any way alter my conclusion that essentially every pound of bird seed that is eaten by birds during the summer reduces birds consumption of insects by about one pound. It is primarily the adults, older fledglings, and finches, both young and adult, that are eating the seeds. And these birds would eat far more insects during the summer if we didn't give them seeds, the same as they did for thousands of years before the birds began eating millions of pounds of seeds we give to them during the summer. Sorry, Alicia and all. Sincerely, Gary Springer From: "John C James" jjames14"at"nc.rr.com Gary, Query: Does that include all birds, and is it too late now to discontinue feeding, and if not when should feeding be resumed? John James Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 04:30:27 -0700 (PDT) --- Gary Springer springer"at"alltel.net wrote: ... After reading your well thought out posts in the past year about the benefit of millet, or the adaptability and intelligence of house sparrows that you would use such a simple and unsubstatiated post to prove your point. Are we to believe that the birds aren't smart enough to feed themselves a proper diet? I wish I could claim the source, but I'm sure you've read some of the same information as I that studies on feeding birds found that even when given full access to feeders it only amounted to a small percentage of their diet. In my small yard, where I feed year-round I have hosted eastern bluebirds, tree swallows, Carolina chickadees, house wrens and house sparrows. At the park, less than two miles away on 100 acres of mixed habitat, with no bird feeders I have the same five species. Although my efforts in the more wooded areas is just beginning I have yet to attract eastern tufted-titmice, white-breasted nuthatches or Carolina wrens. I feel it is more a question of habitat or the abundace of natural cavities not whether I feed or not. As to more predators or competition I see the same thing at the park without
feeders as at the house with feeders. If anything I have more predation and Closing your post with the comparison of 50 pounds of seeds being substituded for 50 pounds of insects is absolutly preposterous. To equate 50 pounds of seeds with some insects, natural fruit and weed seeds would make a lot more sense. And to think that withholding seed would eliminate tent caterpillars won't hold up for me either. Here at the park there is certainly no shortage of natural food so the tent caterpillars and fall webworm are seldom eaten by the birds. For the most part I appreciate your opinion and respect your knowledge but please keep it real. ===== From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com John James, Gary S. et al, I put them back out again around first frost, which is normally some time in late October, depending on the extent of Indian Summer. The result is that they're out about 6 months out of the year. By 'Oriole feeders' I simply mean half-oranges nailed to a board. I do very little mealworm feeding of Bluebirds. Two of my 31 sites occasionally see some when I feel like trying to take some pictures, or when I have the urge to see them real close. The other 29 never see a mealworm all summer. Mind you, since this is a free country, you folks can all do exactly what you feel like doing. I'm just answering John's question. Bruce Burdett, in SW NH From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net Hi John, From everything I've seen and read, all song birds in the Eastern It seems the most effective time for insect control is when they just come
out in spring before they have a chance to reproduce and before they make The pound for pound insect to seed ratio of bird consumption I wrote about no doubt declines somewhat as more wild seeds and fruits are available in mid to late summer, and, providing seeds probably is not as upsetting to the insect/bird ecology as it is in spring and early summer seed feeding. As far as when I believe it is best to resume seed feeding, first note that it is very important that migrating birds maintain their strength. Before the continent was developed the fall migration was much easier for birds because seeds are most abundant during late summer and early fall. But now, there are many areas where it would be more difficult for birds to find seed in suburban areas because of all the weed control. I think it is more important to discontinue seed feeding in early spring, weather permitting, when insects first become available, than it is to delay resumption of seed feeding in late summer or early fall. Also, by the time migration begins most breeding is completed in our yards so it is no longer important to provide a sanctuary for breeding birds. Therefore I would keep an eye on the breeding birds and migration and begin feeding modestly between these two phases and feed all the seed they can eat when migration is in full swing long before weather becomes severe. Of course the amount of natural habitat where seeds are available should also be considered because as noted, there is plenty of seed occurring naturally in the fall in undeveloped areas but little seed available to migrating birds in areas extensively developed and with manicured landscapes. But, again, I believe the most important time not to feed seeds is when insects become available in spring and continuing through early summer. The time to resume seed feeding is not as critical as the timing of the withdraw in spring. Again, I thank the list members and owners for letting me stray from the topic of cavity nesting birds. But, as indicated, I strongly believe that backyard bird feeding in early spring adversely affects the success of nest boxes located in the vicinity of feeders and that providing this breeding opportunity is important in spring while feeding seeds is actually an ecologically unsound practice at that season. Gary Springer ... From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net Dear Jim, I have inserted my response directly below your comments. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to clarify my position. Gary, Yes! The birds diet is regulated more by what is available than anything else. I believe nature normally gets it right, or makes it right. Because essentially no seeds are available when insects begin to become active, and becasue many birds will keep eating seeds when we make them available at that time, I believe the birds have taste preferences the same as we do. And, that is why they eat seeds when there are so many insects, despite the birds important role in balancing insect populations on the planet. I don't think the birds realize the importance of eating insects to balance the ecology. I wish I could claim the source, but I'm sure you've I have more confidence in my own observations than studies that may be funded by the multimillion dollar seed industry or statements from organizations whose largest financial contributors are the seed industry and seed sellers. The birds that are not forced away from feeders during territorial breeding battles and breeding territory selection which I have observed do substantially exist on the seeds and eat little insects. If you watch birds go in and out of nest boxes and nests and to your feeder you will realize this is true. If there are no seeds and no fruit in early spring when insects are active, what do you suppose the birds would eat if they didn't eat the sunflower seeds in your feeder? You'll have to keep your nest boxes out of the forest or you'll have little
or no success with them. Yes, proximity to your house with your careful eye and presence will reduce predation, but the seed feeding increases all sorts of activity in your yard that is not conducive to breeding success, including the presence of predators. As for your experience with predation at the park, don't discount the fact that humans are some of the worst predators. Closing your post with the comparison of 50 pounds of You won't find a single seed or piece of fruit in your yard or in the park in early spring when breeding begins. So the 50 pound seed/insect bird consumption tradeoff ratio is very accurate in early spring. And those 50 pounds of insects not eaten in early spring will go about getting larger and reproducing as your birds continue to eat your seed hand outs and wild seeds and fruits become available so the increase in insects caused by providing those 50 pounds of seeds is far worse than the initial 50 pounds of insect not eaten. I agree that tent caterpillars are seldom eaten by birds. I have seen titmice kill them but they apparently could not stomach them. But, this is probably because they eat the most bitter of all leaves. Ever squash one and see the dark green black cherry leaf mush inside them? I've heard it said thse black cherry leaves are poisonous to some animals. Nature at work again. The tent caterpillar eats a plant that makes its larvae inedible. But, please realize that the eggs and newly hatched caterpillars would have
none of this bitterness. And birds scanning the branches carefully over and over
again in search for a meal when natural wild seeds are not available will
discover their egg clusters and just hatched eggs. But, in early spring
chickadees will fly right past the black cherry trees on the way to easier, not
ecologically or nutritionally correct, sunflower seeds in feeders. Thanks for your many kind words. I am keeping this just as real as possible. I've seen things happen on my property first hand and it all seems so logical I will always stop feeding the birds I love when the weather warms and insects become plentiful, and, I believe with all my heart that it will be helping the birds and ecology to do so. My schedule will not permit me to spend more time writing for several days. So I will not be able to respond to any more questions for a while. I can hear cheers and aplause! Gary Springer
Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 07:51:12 -0700 (PDT) --- Gary Springer springer"at"alltel.net wrote: Once you realize birds don't need seeds during the summer and that The nest boxes are full of titmice, chickadees, Gary, Its not like it was thousands of years ago we do have pesticides these days. This is all OK if you live somewhere where there is a forest and wild plants, but if you live in the City or Suburbs or even like me in the Country there are pesticides everywhere from the neighbors yards to the crops in the plowed fields. I would think that this doesn't make for a huge problem with insects. I am always worried about the birds in my area being poisoned due to all of the farmers and their fields of crops that I KNOW have been sprayed with something. My daughter lives down by the lake and I can honestly say I think the birds in that area are in a much better inviornment and there are forests and wild plants and less insecticides. But not where I live. So in these areas wouldn't a supplement of seed or mealworms lessen the risk of a bird eating a contaminated insect? Kerry in NE corner of Okla. Date: Tue, 07 May 2002 11:05:06 -0400 on 5/7/02 7:28 AM, Bruce Burdett at blueburd"at"srnet.com wrote: John James, Gary S. et al, I've been folloing with interest the discussion on taking down bird feeders in the spring. We always try to do so if only for simple economics in a season of natural plenty. My question has to do with the destruction of feeders by hungry bears. Let me descride the scenario and ask the opionion of anyone who cares to offer it: I live in Barry County in Southern Lower Michigan (about 75 miles north of The Indiana Line). It's a rural county with rolling terrain, plentiful farm land and an abundance of forest, wetlands, and lakes. My place is bordered by a 60 acre lake in front, a 700 acre farm/forest to the north, and a 400 acre forest to the west and south. Beyond the forest to the west is several thousand more acres of state land, which consists of recreational areas, game areas, etc. Interspersed with the public land are small farms etc. Early this spring, before the feeders had been taken in, one of our large and expensive feeders was "attacked" by something which all but destroyed it. The feeder is mounted at eye level (I'm 6'1") at the bottom of a ridge which is at the edge of my property and the 400 acre forest. It's only 30 feet from the rear of my house. The damage consisted of the wooden edges (nailed in place) of the feed tray being pulled off, and the wire suet baskets at each end of the feeder being totally demolished. The pole supporting the feeder is a small di. galvanized metal. It looked untouched. My wife is convinced an awakening bear is the perp, but I am reluctant to agree. I've lived in Michigan all my life and although I suppose there is enough suitable habitat hereabouts, I have never heard of bear being this far south. And, even though the suet baskets, in their post attack state, bears (no pun intended) a strong resemblance to the snout of a bear, I could find no other evidence suggesting the presence of an animal so large and unmistakable. I am hesitant to pose such a ridiculous question to local authorities because I'd be laughed at as far away as Detroit. By the same token there is some pressure being brought to bear, domestically speaking, to come up with an alternate explanation. So far, I have unable to present one and this situation can't be allowed to continue. Please. Can you think of anything capable of such damage besides, as my wife likes to say, "The obvious"? regards to all, -- From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com Larry, et al, I guess you'll have to rely on the local naturalists to explain this attack. Bruce Burdett, SW NH From: TomGaryH"at"aol.com Be advised, in a nestbox in my yard Tufted Titmouses (Titmice) have been feeding a large quantity of safflower seed to their nestlings. That is, I see adults take seed from the feeder, fly to a limb, pound at the seed for a brief time and then fly to and enter the box. These adults work harder and for longer periods of time while feeding their young than any bluebirds that I have ever seen. These Tufted's are almost continually in motion. They could be feeding six nestlings. Six eggs were being incubated on the 18th of April. A clump of nestlings were in the box on the 24th of April which is the most recent check. Although a large amount of safflower is being taken to the nestbox, I believe insects found naturally are also being taken to the box. I say this because I see adults leave the box and fly off in directions other than to the safflower seed feeder. I also see adults approach the box from directions other than from the seed feeder. I believe I am the only one feeding birds in the immediate area of one hundred acres. I would guess, if what I suspect is the feeding of naturally occurring insects, that the mix is about 50 percent seed trips to 50 percent insect trips. This is an extremely rough estimate and is based on the direction from which the birds approach the nestbox and even this is from recalling from memory observations of the last several days. To add to the difficulty of keeping tabs is a third adult which enters and leaves the box. I also feed mealworms in the mornings. There are at least five adult Tufted Titmouses that come to the worm feeder. It appears that only two of these take mealworms to the nestbox. On these ocassions these adults appear to get a break - feeding activity comes to a halt after a while. I think it is the large size of the mealworm/s as compared to the seed and the naturally found bugs that allow or require a temporary halt to the feeding of the nestlings. Feeding mealworms fills the birds innards quicker than does the other smaller food. I think I was coming around to seeing some of the things that Gary Springer understands. I have not reported anything that counters the salient point/s he makes except that Tufted Titmouse nestlings are being fed seeds (safflower). If I quit feeding safflower, a similar nutritional amount of something else (bugs) will need to be gotten in order to maintain the nestlings in the box. I have no doubt that if the seeds are withheld, the adults will try to make up the difference with something. If I quit feeding safflower seeds and mealworms the adults aren't going to get that morning break, but there will be fewer bugs to cause problems to humans, plants, and so forth. While I believe Gary's thinking is correct, our throw-away, we-want-it-now society won't allow the bug-seed-fruit-bird part of nature to operate in many backyards. But, afterall, that's natural, too. Tom Heintzelman From: "Karen Louise Lippy" brdbrain"at"superpa.net Gary, Because so many seeds and berries are depleted when our nesting birds return from migration, it is important to provide some subsistance feeding. This is perhaps the time when feeding can make the difference between hunger and a full belly. While I enjoy going afield to find birds, I also enjoy seeing adults bring chicks to the feeders when they fledge from the nest. My feeders are never as busy in the summer as in the winter. I doubt that my yard holds enough birds at the feeder to make it a tempting target for hawks during the summer, but I can certainly not say that in winter!! If you could provide evidence of a study which proves what you have been writing on this topic, I would certainly be glad to read it. If my feeding methods are detrimental to birds, I would stop. But I see no evidence of that in my yard as of now. My mother lives with me and she is unable to get out and enjoy nature. The birds that come to my feeders brighten her day. I would need proof that feeding is harmful before I would deprive her of a joy she is unable to attain any other way. Karen from South Central PA ----- Original Message ----- ... From: "judymellin" judymellin"at"netzero.net I can only support what Karen says here. I think the "proof of the pudding", if you will, is the fact that even species such as Cedar Waxwings that are confirmed seed eaters feed insects to their young. As a matter of fact, for the Breeding Bird Atlas Project, this is one of the generally accepted criteria for confirming nesting. Since the insects are so much higher in protein than seeds ever could be, the adults "recognize" the nutritional value of feeding the young very high protein as they are growing so rapidly immediately after hatching. And Cornell's Guide to Feeding Birds in Winter states the feeders provide only 25% of a bird's diet in winter. I don't think it is a huge jump in logic to assume that the percentage in summer would be considerably less. What we need to realize is that birds with access to feeders are a tiny percentage of the bird population in the world. I monitor a 600 acre natural areas restoration and I am quite sure that few, if any, of these individuals have ever been near a feeder. And I can say from personal experience that they are strong and healthy and reproduce like crazy! Judy Mellin ... From: "Phil Kenny" PhilKenny"at"cox.rr.com Gary and others have some interesting hypothesis regarding the diet of song birds and the effect on insect concentrations in the surrounding areas, but I don't think it is at all appropriate to state these theories as conclusions without thoroughly testing your ideas, or at least citing a source as evidence. Wouldn't it be possible that by putting out seed, you are attracting "more" birds to your yard and these "extra" birds are eating a greater portion of insects than otherwise? Isn't it also quite possible that feeding birds has almost no effect, good or bad, on their success, or the insects? I do remember reading this past winter an article in one of Cornell's publications that showed feeding sunflower seeds in the winter had very little effect on Black Capped Chickadee survival rates, with the notable exception of Wisconsin during extremely cold spells. My opinion, based on reading and experience, feeding birds is for people. People who want to enjoy watching them and learning about nature and feeling interconnected with the earth and the world around us. I love watching the thrill of a neighbor seeing a cardinal for the first time, or "so many goldfinch" or that amazing Pileated, or how my kids eyes light up when they see a box full of chicks. Go ahead and feed your birds all year round! And take everything you hear and read with a grain of salt. Phil Kenny From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net Hi Karen, I'm beginning to hear the BOOOO'S already but: I keep looking for comments that make it seem like I've been understood but I'm not getting any so I'll try again in another way. The majority of birds coming to your feeders during the winter had to move away to a new breeding territory if they wanted to breed. That is just the way birds operate. Most of the birds we are talking about want a large space of their own which they protect from other birds of their own species and which they control as their breeding territory. Once all the birds spread out across the entire landscape in their own breeding territories, there is a huge reduction in bird activity at your feeders. But, the birds that are breeding in your yard and nearby that protect this breeding territory(your yard) are eating a lot of seeds from your feeder. But, consumption of bird seed falls at your feeder because the majority of the birds that were feeding at your feeder before breeding began are busy defending breeding territories that do not include the space where your feeder is located. I have written more comments below paragraphs of your writing below. Gary, I agree with you that insects are probably better for the birds and that is another reason I think this is important. But, apparently seeds rank very high in food preferences because they do continue to eat seeds at feeders even though there are a lot of insects available in early spring. And this unnecessary and unatural abundant seed eating in early spring is exactly why I think we should discontinue feeding seeds in spring. In early spring and much of the summer "supplemental" seed feeding is direct insect protection. If, as you suggested, they stopped eating seeds when insects were available,
we wouldn't be having this debate because everyone would stop putting out seed
because no seed would be eaten when insects became available. But seed continues
to be eaten by birds despite massive populations of insects, But I believe this reduction in seeds taken from feeders is a result of less birds coming to feeders because the majority move away as a result of breeding competition and territory formation. The individuals that breed near your feeders continue to eat a lot of seeds. These are the individuals that people buy the seed for and the individuals that I prefer to have eating insects. Because so many seeds and berries are depleted when our nesting birds I would never condone withdrawing seed at a time when there was a scarcity of food. That is why the reduction of seed feeding must reflect the changes in weather and availability of insects. The breeding territory of most of the birds that eat most of the seed from your feeders surrounds or includes the ground your feeder stands on. The majority of birds coming to your feeders during the winter had to move away to a new breeding territory if they wanted to breed. That is just the way birds operate. Most of the birds we are talking about want a large space of their own that they control as their breeding territory. Once all the birds spread out across the entire landscape in their own breeding territories, there is a huge reduction in bird activity at your feeders. But, the birds that are breeding in your yard and nearby that protect this breeding territory(your yard) are eating a lot of seeds from your feeder. But, consumption falls because the majority of the birds that were feeding at your feeder before breeding began are busy defending breeding territories that do not include the space where your feeder is located. Again, in early spring after the birds and other animals have done their best to find and eat every seed available month after month during the winter, seeds are slim pickings. But as soon as it gets warmer there are insects galore. Isn't nature wonderful. But, the birds continue to eat seeds when we keep feeders stocked with them and insects go uneaten. I don't see how there can be any doubt at all that fewer insects are eaten in early spring because birds eat seeds at feeders when they would have been forced to eat the abundant insects available had the feeders been taken down. (If this doesn't make sense, please let me know what species of bird would not eat insects if there were no seeds available at your feeder in early spring when insects were abundant but wild seeds not yet available.) I also don't think there is any doubt that when birds eat fewer insects there will be larger insect populations, more insect damage to trees, lawns, gardens, more insect related health concerns and ultimately more pesticide use. Gary Springer PS If you have any questions you would like to ask me, please email your phone number to me so we can discuss this. I have absolutely no more time to write. I type too slowly but would love to discuss this with anyone interested in doing so. From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net Hi Kerry, You wrote: So in these areas(where insecticide use is high) wouldn't a supplement of
seed or mealworms lessen the If insecticide use in an area has gotten this bad, I think it is best not to increase the concentration of birds in that contaminated area by supplemental feeding because that will serve only to expose more birds to risk, not decrease the risk to birds already there. Gary ----- Original Message ----- ... Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 15:57:04 -0500 I suspect when insects are available, some birds that can eat them may PREFER them over seeds, no matter how many seeds are available. People that keep feeders filled year-round often notice a decline in the use of the feeder during summer, whether due to availability of seeds in nature, or insects, or the defense of territory during the breeding season. Among other things,growing babies need protein, and insects are a more concentrated source. Likening seeds to "candy" presupposes that birds' tastes are like ours--we would consider sunflower seeds a snack and insects as repugnant, but the way some birds relish them I suspect many birds feel the opposite. Kate Oschwald Bluebird feeding - Philosophy (Part 5) |
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