|
Welcome to
The Bluebird Box
since 1995 |
Bluebird feeding - Philosophy (Part 2)In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website:
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 06:09:02 -0600 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas 67*F and tornado watch in effect this morning! OK I got several notes asking about the above subject line! The bird eggs are a reflection of the health of the adult female. If her diet is deficient in vitamins and minerals then the egg will approximate the same deficiencies. Same goes for mealworms. If they are fed a single food that does not contain all of the vitamins or minerals they cannot invent the vitamin or mineral that is lacking. Pilgrims Pride (Second largest poultry producer in the US this year) is based near me and they have a brand of eggs called "Eggs Plus" the difference between this and normal table eggs is the secret "super charged diet" the hens are fed. This leads to an egg with double to triple the amounts of vitamins contained in the egg. It also has higher levels of all amino acids and they can manipulate the cholesterol in the egg to where the good is more than the bad and under human tests switching to these eggs will actually lower your cholesterol level if eaten regularly instead of "normal" eggs. Diet is the only difference and hens on a normal "bland" diet right across the aisle have a totally different quality egg and color and texture. The "Eggs plus" egg is by far a thicker and less runny egg. (I have compared these "hot" out of the hen!) To me they more closely resemble the eggs from free roaming yard chickens with a varied diet. OK now bluebirds come to mealworm feeders only to show their bird friends that they can make humans press their noses against the window glass and then go running and screaming through the house telling couch potatoes "We have BLUEBIRDS". They don't need these worms any more than humans need hamburger joints! (Exceptions are extreme weather conditions and even then we only could save a tiny percentage of even a local population of bluebirds!) OK what we are getting at is what are you feeding your worms? There are online sites giving nutrition values for nearly every food (even edible insects for humans and yes mealworms are a staple human diet in some cultures). Instead of bran maybe the worms should be fed a high protein high vitamin laying hen mash as this is tailored to egg laying hens anyway! What about an enriched cat or dog food containing the vitamins known to create problems in eggs set for hatching. A list of these vitamins and necessary minerals is contained in the "Incubating and Hatching Eggs" booklet along with the problems a lack of these will create in the unborn chick. Should the carrot or potato be soaked in a liquid vitamin bath before giving to the worms to chew on? Could a two or three year study of backyard mealworm feeders show an increase in egg hatching rates and more healthy chicks? Would it be worth the extra cost and hassle? Is anyone still reading this and do they really care? I think only rabid mealworm feeding humans would be dedicated enough to do the research needed to see if a tiny percent of the bluebirds diet, super charged with vitamins and minerals could make an impact on the number and quality of eggs produced. I do believe for good or bad the earliest eggs laid last year were to those who fed mealworms to "their" bluebirds. Can you imagine the economic impact to Grubco if a tiny drop of liquid baby vitamins dripped in the feeding dish containing only mealworms were the best way to "super charge" your bluebirds. Remember that the simple act of eating a 1/2 of a lime a day in the British fleet made them a world power as 40% more sailor survived long voyages due to stopping scurvy (sp) caused by a vitamin deficiency. KK Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 08:09:24 -0500 Hello KK and all. Very interesting post! I believe *some* of this type of research has already been done. I know for example that some mealworm (MEWO, and I like MEOW too!) suppliers already produce "superworms" for sale. These are fed fortified foods and have more nutrition in them. But, I am not sure if they have studied its effect on all MEWO eating animals. What is good for some animals may be hazardous for BBs. But, who would sponsor such a research! As you said, the BBs really do not need our MEWOs. We feed them because we love to interact with them and enjoy them. *MY* three BBs have been coming to see *me* every day all winter (and some of you thought they only want the worms.) I have recorded the temperature some nights below 9*F, and they still showed up. My only concern now is that the BBs will lay eggs too early (last year Betty had Earlybird lay eggs early in Feb. here in MD, they were not fertile. I guess the Daddy bird did not feel it was warm enough for him to do much about the female who was well fed and ready to lay the eggs....) Fawzi from MD (it is going to be a hot day today: high 60s, good time to wash all the road dirt and salt off the poor car.) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 10:10:47 -0500 Chris Statton, Several years ago, the Smithsonian sponsored a research project to study winter diet and breeding success. The study focused on American Redstarts. The basic gist of the study concluded that winter diet was a far bigger influence on the birds' breeding success than conditions at time of nesting. Obviously, birds that are well nourished over winter come out of winter's ravages are in much better condition physically and physiologically - and better ready to handle the rigors of breeding - than birds that had to just skimp by at the sustenance level over winter. The study acknowledged that it focused upon Redstarts, but concluded that this study in combination with other similar studies, the results were widely applicable to most birds. By NO means a scientific study - purely anecdotal, but the blues here are fed mealworms that are fed mixed high quality (protein & vitamins) and cheap (fat) dry dog food in addition to wheat bran and apple. This is for purposes of secondary feeding for the blues. That is, it does not raise the nutrition level of the worms, per se. (The worms will absorb only what they need.) Rather, there is often vestigial amounts of the dog food in the worm's digestive tract. It is that food, when the blues eat the worms, that contributes extra nutrition to the blues v. the worms becoming supercharged in their nutrition. Providing crushed eggshell also helps boost the calcium level. In any event, since offering mealworms all winter, the blues here have consistently had 4 clutches of 5-6 eggs every year with 0-1/year not hatching. All that hatch, fledge. Solely my opinion, I think the breeding rate here is more just a factor of having a reliable, fundamentally nutritious, winter food source period v. the worms maybe having the 'extra' nutrition from the dog food. Fawzi - caution on "superworms". Some of over-size "mealworms" are actually fed insect growth hormone - v. some extra-healthy diet - to get them huge. It is not recommended such worms be fed to birds or herps. Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 06:35:39 -0800 Can others give their experiences/input on the following points: 1. I have heard old timers say that a single female can brood, feed, protect and fledge a clutch of five just fine. However, my experience has been *if left alone* I can expect to find a dead chick every 3 to 4 days until she is left with two or three live chicks to fledge. This is what I saw during my first year as a bluebirder when I just watched . . . with no interference. 2. I have heard old timers say that feeding mealworms is for our own entertainment. However, my experience has been that feeding mealworms is a good habit to develop and critical to single parent nests. For instance, because I am in the habit of bringing "Hello Mealworms" to my trail sites, a single parent is already prepped to recognize and take advantage of regular mealworm feedings if a crisis should occur. My reason for these discussion points follows: Yesterday, a nestbox neighbor found a dead male on the ground and gave me a call. After work, I checked the site and found the clutch of 5 chicks recently hatched with an attentive female. (The dead male had no obvious marks of trauma.) Under the circumstances, this female is lucky because the neighbor who found her dead mate is willing to supplement her diet with mealworms. The dead male had always the one to accept the "Hello Mealworms" but the single female has seen the routine and should quickly take advantage of the help in her crisis. Even so, I will be looking for a foster nest in the even that one or two chicks start falling behind in 3 or 4 days. Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 12:09:28 -0400 ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- Hello Linda & All: I consider myself an "old timer" and firmly believe feeding mealworms during non-crisis times prepares survivors very well. After all, our goal is to perpetuate the species; no doubt, it seems to be working. Betty Nichols, Middletown, MD Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 09:41:19 -0800 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Betty, thank you . . . you are absolutely correct (as usual!). A review of past "Mealworm" file shows we only have a few vocal anti-mealworm people on this List (specifically, Dean Sheldon) but who have a wide sphere of influence on how bluebirding should be done. Others have voiced their concern (old posts--they may no longer have those concerns) that feeding mealworms may prevent parents from passing on natural foraging techniques to the youngsters (Judy Mellin and Tina). Others state that mealworm feeding is for our own entertainment (Haleya). For trails which do not lend themselves to offering mealworms (large/remote), that is understood and OK. Unless I see posts to the contrary, and based on a review of past Bluebird-L posts, I will assume the vast majority of bluebirders now agree that offering mealworms: 1. Is beneficial to the bluebirds (lightens their burden); Thank you, Betty, for your comments! Elizabeth Nichols wrote: ... Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 14:38:32 -0400 Linda, like Betty, I agree with your statements below (even though I an not an "old timer" at bluebirding.) I believe Dean and KK have very large trails. Can you imagine feeding mealies to 200 plus boxes on trails? It would be next to impossible (at least impractical.) I do agree with feeding mealies especially under special situations to help single parents, and for other special reasons. This may be practical selectively, even on a very long trail. Having said that, I confess that the small backyard trail around our house is fed mealies all year round!!! It is both for pleasure and to keep them healthy. Also, they get to know me, and I to know them, so I keep it going all year. Betty has one of the most beautiful trails I have ever visited. It is less than 1/2 mile for her home. Every time I visited her, it was pure pleasure visiting her trail! The Blues there come to greet us, and fly around us wherever we go in the park. I think feeding is very beneficial to the BBs. The fear that they will get used to us and become dependent on us is not true for the following simple reason: The 6 adults I had last year produced about 20 babies. That makes 26 birds. Only 6, and later 3 stayed with me for the winter. The others went away to cheer some other people by showing up in their yards. I can imagine Joe calling his wife "Look here honey, there is a beautiful bluebird in the cherry tree, I think I'll make a house for him..." Fawzi from MD ----- Original Message ----- ... Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 13:38:45 -0600 Bonnie Boex Testimonial (in favor of mealworms) Linda, et al: Just returned from my 2nd trip around my trail delivering mealworms at each site where Bluebirds waited in anticipation. Necessity? Yes! It was a winter wonderland this a.m. Snowed all night. It's now windy and cold; I think we're in for more snow and wind this evening. Wish I had more time to just feed mealworms for my pleasure. If I want to keep my numbers up, the mealworms are necessary. ----- Original Message ----- ... Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 16:41:28 -0400 Be advised: my concern has nothing whatever to do with feeding mealworms, per se. My concern has to do with leading newcomers to bluebirding to believe that they MUST feed mealworms as a part of regular bluebird nest box/trail management. Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 14:27:41 -0800 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Thanks for the note, Dean. Your post dated October 2000 (copied below) seemed to reflect an overall negative view of offering mealworms . . . not just for newcomers. I'm pleased to see that we are in agreement that feeding mealworms (when possible) is, indeed, a benefit to the whole bluebirding process. NEXT YEAR What I hope is that NEXT year everyone will finally learn that you DO NOT
HAVE TO FEED THE BIRDS as a part of the whole bluebirdng process. dean sheldon wrote: Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 15:20:56 -0800 From: Linda Violett
lviolett"at"earthlink.net Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. PS: Dean states his concern of feeding mealworms surrounded newcomers. He did not specifically state, per se, that he sees any benefit. Am I reading you correctly? You are neutral on mealworm feeding . . . other than newcomers? Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 21:03:11 -0500 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. The "vast majority of bluebirders" do not subscribe to this list - nor will any significant majority those on the list (what are there, about 300 of us?) comment as directed. In an earlier post, Linda comments: 1. I have heard old timers say that a single female can brood, feed, I would certainly agree that single females (and single males, too) can raise
broods of five, although I don't have any any huge number of observations to
base this on. I guess my questions on the point above are: Returning to the five points at the top, I think a good deal more study could be given to points 1, 3, and 4. I guess I would challenge the idea that the normal course of rearing a brood is any "burden" for adult bluebirds (either paired, or singly) - it is, after all, the role evolution has well-prepared them for. I do think we might pay attention to the possibility that human assistance in fledging bluebirds that might not otherwise survive might, in some way, short-circuit some important natural processes. This is, of course, a vastly bigger subject than just mealworms, but I have concerns about the "domestication" of bluebirds that takes place when bluebirders give absorbed attention to assuring fledging success - assisting bluebirds that nature would otherwise reject. My preferred bluebirds are ones that attack anything that disturbs the nesting process - including human monitors. I feel much more assured that bluebirds will survive our current (historically momentary) attention if they retain these characteristics, rather than becoming human-dependent. Jim Walters james-walters"at"uiowa.edu Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 22:27:37 -0400 Jim, Linda, and all, I do both things! If it is better to feed, then the EABL around our house (which are fed regularly all year) have an advantage. On the other hand if it is better not to feed, then the EABL around my park trail (which are not fed at all,) will grow up wild and strong. When I show up to check on them, they do attack me and try to chase me away... Well, I think I must be doing something right one way or the other (very similar to my using both cedar and pine in the same birdhouse...) The mixer/coordinator, Fawzi in MD Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 21:59:32 -0500 Jim Walters wrote in response to Linda Violet's post: My preferred bluebirds are ones that attack anything that disturbs the nesting process - including human monitors. I feel much more assured that bluebirds will survive our current (historically momentary) attention if they retain these characteristics, rather than becoming human-dependent. I couldn't agree with you more Jim however, I don't think that I saw what I believe is the most important reason to provide mealies to nesting birds; I began providing mealies to a female EABL (Eastern Bluebird) while she was incubating eggs. I figured that the supply of mealies would allow her to incubate the eggs for longer periods of time and it keeps her out of harms way because she doesn't have to travel too far to hunt. Remember, the male will not incubate the eggs. Therefore, if the female is lost during the incubation period then all is lost, including the potential fledglings. I would never advocate making 'pets' out of the birds through the use of
mealies. I feed the EABL mealies almost all year here but they will still dive
bomb I also would never hand feed the EABL even though I know I could. I very much enjoy birding.... even at a distance. It is more natural that way. Bob Sitarski South/central Indiana Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 19:43:41 -0700 Please don't include me among the people who are buying into this "list". My feelings have not changed and I see no reason to think they will. I firmly believe- and have previously stated- that there is value to feeding in times of high stress- as described in the Baker Message- but, beyond that, I have seen no "science" to support the view that feeding year-round leads to higher survival rates. Unless someone can show me any research that documents the following: 1. that there has been a decrease in the natural food source of bluebirds,
that is, insects I remain with Dean- feed if it makes you feel good but don't feel that you must "nurse" or be considered a failure as a "parent". It's no different in my eyes. Judy Mellin ... Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 08:09:55 -0500 Hello All - I'm not surprised that feelings run strong about feeding mealworms, they seem to about everything else. I would just like to re-state my views and experience. If you do not agree, I would like to hear from you, private would be fine. 1.) I feed limited amounts of mealworms during the nesting season, for my pleasure. It helps me observe the birds close up but they would fare fine without my help. 2.) I feed limited amounts of mealworms during the winter months. The amount is determined by the weather conditions. 3.) Case in point: During severe cold with snow and ice this winter, the adult bluebirds and several of their offspring returned after being gone for two months or more. These birds were famished, they ate and acted that way. When the weather moderated they were gone and I haven't seen them again. Perhaps the pair nesting here in my yard are a part of that group, but I have no way of knowing that. I'm glad the birds remembered where they could get food and that I was around to provide it. During this severe weather I tried to find a rock or something to break the ice on the bird bath, with no luck. Everything was either buried or frozen, actually both. I finally gave up, went to the garage, got a hammer and put the bird bath in order. Even finding available water can be a problem in some areas. If you can convince me that birds can survive as well without our help in severe weather with things covered and frozen, I would sleep better at night. It will take putting forth something other than a pipe dream to do that. Nature can be cruel, I think we all agree on that. The end result is usually the survival of the fittest, but sometimes situations are such that it is the survival of the ones that happen to be in a better situation and being the fittest is not enough. Why not give the birds an edge, if there is any doubt? Best regards, Bruce Johnson ~ Life Mbr. NABS ----- Original Message ----- Please don't include me among the people who are buying into this "list". ... Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 09:53:54 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA Dear Linda et al, I would like to clarify my point about feeding mealworms. I in fact did say that feeding mealworms are for our own pleasure. I thought for a good bit of time whether I should say anything then to the contrary or not. In 90% of all I have posted in the past I have pointed out the exceptions. Since I failed to do this in my last post, I will do so now - and clarify why I neglected to point it out in this last post - to avoid confusion. I would like all to know that I feed my blues in my yard 24/7. I feed only my early nesters mealies on my trail of 30 boxes and I leave the rest alone. I personally do not have the time to feed single parents. My last nest of 3 that were left with a single mom fledged just fine - and of course I would foster them out if I felt they were not doing well. Bluebirds have survived without mealworms for as long as their have been bluebirds. Life and death in the fast lane of life is inevitable. As my mentor pointed out to me, these are WILD BIRDS. That means that there are going to be ad infinitum ways that they will die no matter what we do or don't do. Perhaps the huge ice storms that killed off many blues decades ago could have been averted had people been feeding mealies, but somehow I don't know if we'd of put a dent in the problem at that time. Conservation efforts alone are what have brought the bluebirds back - not mealworm feeding! So yes, feeding mealworms during an ice storm when all of their food is covered with ice, or during recovery at a rehabbers, or single parents is a wonderful gift to the bluebirds. It can mean the difference between life and death. However, feeding mealworms is not essential to the OVERALL SURVIVAL OF THE SPECIES as is providing good boxes and good monitoring techniques. Personally, I think it is a mistake to focus SO MUCH on the importance of mealworm feeding that it somehow stands equal to the importance of monitoring, predator control, siting etc. From my own experience, I find that mealworm feeding is such a gift - it brings me so much joy, yet it is a big commitment and takes effort, thought and money to do. I choose NOT to give little "hello mealies" to my bluebirds along my trails simply because I don't have time and because I don't have time I've had to pick and choose what is my priority. Except for early cold spring nesters near my house (and those early nesters along my trail who didn't get mealies fledged just fine) I find that frequent monitoring is my personal BEST BET for successful fledges. Don't get me wrong - the "hello mealies" to my early nesters tells me important information very easily - plus it is just so fun to watch them come flying for the "grub". However, my other nesters seemed to get by just fine without the mealies and yes, there were times that I wondered if all was well, but it always seems to be! I don't have a problem with new bluebirders discovering mealworms, yet, I feel it is important for them to learn the basics of bluebirding and not feel they MUST feed mealworms as part of an essential piece of bluebirding. Feeding mealworms means NOTHING compared to learning how to control HOSP, monitoring, siting, etc. So please know that anyone who wants to feed mealies - more power to you! If you have the time, great. You'll probably save some bluebirds that way! But IMHO please remember you don't have to feed mealies to be successful at bluebirding. Some of the best bluebirders on this list don't feed mealies and their successful fledge rates are awesome! Everything that is noted about the advantages of feeding mealies I agree with (and believe me I have a few of my own ideas about the advantages), however, I would rather not make it an ESSENTIAL MUST to successful bluebirding equal to proper monitoring, siting, and predator control. :-) H Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 11:35:14 -0400 I had been operating on the principle that educating them to take mealworms is a good preparation for disaster, though I had not really thought it out. I found your list helpful and supportive. Randy Jones ----- Original Message ----- Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 14:43:52 -0500 At 09:41 AM 4/7/01 -0800, you wrote: Snipped
Since only a few of the 300+ listmembers actively post to the list, it is a little early to make assumptions about the majority of listmembers, or the majority of bluebirders. I do not feed mealworms. I tried for months to feed cut-up raisins one winter, because I thought giving them treats and attracting them into the yard would be fun. But there were no takers, probably becuase we have insects year-round except during the rare snowfalls or ice storms. When a house sparrow stuffed my bluebird feeder full of grass, I took it down and have not tried to feed bluebirds since. I still get bluebirds in my yard all the time, to hunt insects or use the birdbath. Even if I did get bluebirds to use a feeder in my yard, I feel I would only be helping a few bluebirds who consider my yard their territory. All the rest would still be fending for themselves, so I'm not sure I would be helping the species as a whole. So for the time being, I am unlikely to keep mealworms around "just in case" or just for monitoring situations. I almost always am able to observe both parents when I monitor an active nest, they are either exiting the box as I approach or sitting on a tree or fence nearby. I often watch them feeding their nestlings from a distance as I approach, or through binoculars if I just want to make sure activities are proceeding as they should. So I do not require mealworms as a monitoring tool. I have come to believe that mealworm feeding does no harm, but I'm not sure it is as widespread as you think. I know of many active bluebirders in my area, none of whom feed mealworm or anything else to bluebirds. Kate Oschwald Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 19:34:49 -0700 Bruce- I think replies to you should go to the list. You and Fawzi support the middle ground that many of us agree with. We saw a need to help blues with nestboxes and there are times that we can help them further by supplemental feedings. If you harbor mealworms or any other insects for those times, then give them to your visitors and know that you just may have made a difference. I think that many of the folks who seem to be "opposed" to feeding voice that opinion for several reasons: 1. we feel that long-term, daily feeding is unnecessary and could be detrimental to developing the natural foraging abilities needed by fledglings 2. we feel it makes wild creatures too dependent on us and that we are interfering in a facet of the birds' existence where help is generally not needed (and please note the word "generally") 3. we feel that birders should make decisions based on what they are seeing as the needs of birds in their monitoring area at any given time rather than feeling they MUST feed I think you are showing concern for the species based on their current needs. None of us needs a hot fudge sundae but it doesn't mean we can't have one once in a while as a treat. We just know the long-term effects of daily doses of this on our hips and our cholesterol! Judy Mellin ----- Original Message ----- Hello All - ... Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 20:58:39 -0500 Hi everyone, I have been feeding mealworms for 3 years. I regulary feed the birds that nest in the two boxes in our yard, but only put mealworms out in the other boxes on my trail when I monitor once a week. Obviously this amount of worms is in no way supplying anything more than a treat to the Eastern Bluebirds on my trail. Still, it is fascinating to watch the birds from the boxes that I "treat" only once a week. Even these Bluebirds know that my presence means worms and they come right to the feeders when I am a few feet away. The birds in my yard are sitting waiting for my treats once a day. It was such an awesome sight to see the fledglings sit on the nestbox, waiting for the parents to bring them mealies, then finally seeing them go to the feeder themselves for a treat. To me, nature doesn't get any better than this! Mary Roen, River Falls, WI Since only a few of the 300+ listmembers actively post to the list, it is a Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 23:00:59 -0500 Bruce Johnson posts: My concerns on these issues have something to do with the integrity of the gene pool. If we want bluebirds (or any other species) to remain as anything approaching a species that survives through natural selection, then we want surviving individuals to be ones that can stand up to the worst that nature (their environment) has to offer - being weather, predation, competition for nest sites, etc. Every time we "intervene" - to save individuals that might otherwise perish through any of the above causes - we run at least some marginal risk of mucking things up, I fear. Yes, nature can be cruel; but also awesome, mysterious, beautiful, and sacred. I've sat stoking the fire on nights when the thermometer plunged to 35 below, and listened to the House sparrows roosting under the eaves drop to the ground as they froze to death. I watched the big ice storm back in the 70s, when all our bluebirds just "disappeared." And I've seen entire trails of nestlings wiped out in cold, wet springs more than once. The only species of wild bird in North America that has become nearly domesticated is the eastern race of the Purple martin - almost totally dependent on human-provided housing by a long behavioral shift that may have taken place over centuries. In the early part of the last century martins were as fashionable as bluebirds are now - on farms and in small towns across the eastern U.S. As human demographics changed, martins went out of fashion. That, certainly among some other factors too, caused precipitous declines in their population. Luckily, the martins have some real champions and their populations are steadying again, if not increasing. This history of Purple martins, makes me nervous of any actions which would result in a similar "domestication" of bluebirds. I've always viewed the bluebird "conservation" movement as one that takes the population back toward self-sufficiency - i.e., that would be insuring that enough habitat/natural cavities existed to sustain a reasonable population. We are obviously way past that point. We may, in fact, have more bluebirds than any fully-restored (pre-Columbian?) natural habitat would justify. So what? Well, what about the impact of superabundant bluebird populations on other avian species? As usual, I have many more questions than I have answers. But we shouldn't be afraid of high mortality rates for bluebirds (something they share in common with most bird species) - that's exactly why nature made them multiple nesters, to get over the rough spots. Jim Walters james-walters"at"uiowa.edu Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 07:11:18 -0500 I feed cardinals, downies, flickers, goldfinches, etc but intend to not feed bluebirds. Please do not assume that silence means agreement on ANY topic. I believe our winter feeding hurt the house finches. The five reasons given yesterday as why one should feed bluebirds could be used as reasons to feed Yellowstone black bears. I think we give beginning bluebirders the wrong ideas when we promote feeding bluebirds as required. Those who do feed are having a wonderful time from the sound of the posts and I am not against them. I am against people promoting their ideas as something that MUST be done. This applies to nearly all things that other people are adamant about including grammar, and mandatory use of spell-check. I just can't stand intolerant people. (:- ) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 09:54:27 -0400 Hello everyone, I don't normally post unless I feel we are sending out a wrong Message, especially to new people on this list, and now is one of those times. I have a couple of comments regarding the two dominant topics of late. First, the cedar debate. Due to its durable characteristic, cedar is a good option for building boxes. However, CEDAR SHAVINGS are known to have toxins and are not recommended for using inside nest boxes, where they can come in contact with a nestling's delicate skin. As someone mentioned, if you do use a newly milled cedar box, give it some "air time" before letting the birds use it. Otherwise, there is not enough compelling evidence to say that cedar boxes are harmful to birds. Regarding feeding meal worms to bluebirds. I routinely suggest to monitors that it is not a bad idea to keep meal worms on hand during the spring months, when cold snaps can come suddenly and insect populations can decrease dramatically. However if you live in an area where bluebirds are not year-round residents, and you feed mealies all year long, you run the risk of making them dependent on this free lunch. Consequently, they may forage for themselves less and less. Picture this scenario: You feed meal worms for years and years and in those years, there are a couple of very mild winters. You continue feeding the birds and notice that they decide to stick around for the whole winter instead of joining the flock to head south. "Your" family of birds sticks around and for the first time, a juvenile has not experienced the instinctual behavior of migration. Years may go by and you are delighted that you have year round bluebirds, but now the juveniles that never migrated are breeding and have no migratory experience to teach their own young. So this family of birds remains behind as "non-migratory" bluebirds. This appears ok, because they are being well fed a steady diet of meal worms. Then you move or something happens to you that makes you unable to continue
to feed these birds. The nesting season has come and gone, and there are a
couple of generations of bluebirds who have never migrated south and they are
predicting a harsh winter. There "dependent" food supply has suddenly This may sound very dramatic, but look at the Canada Goose for an example. In the early 1900's, hunters retained this bird in the breeding grounds year after year so that eventually, the adults never taught the birds to migrate. Now especially in the North, we have Canada Goose all year long. Is it a problem? Ask the wildlife specialists who routinely get calls about geese destroying people's property. But beyond that, it is human tampering with a natural phenomenon. It may not effect the birds now, but down the road it may, and if you care about the welfare of these birds, let them do what they must. Feed the birds when they need to be fed. When they have the ability and the resources to feed themselves, they will. When resources are not available, they will do what they've been doing for generations, and migrate to areas abundant with resources. That is what will help them survive for years to come. Tina Phillips (607)254-2482 Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 10:31:21 -0400 To: The Constituency, Bruce Burdett, NH Bluebird Conspiracy, Sunapee NH Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 12:40:09 -0700 (PDT) Hi all, This whole thread of posts on to Feed or Not to feed is getting me more confused than helping me to understand. Below is some of the information I found when researching this subject for myself. Initiation of Migration Various factors determine the initiation of Learning Network This leads me to believe that feeding the birds or not feeding the birds isn't even a factor if a birds migratory instincts are related to their reproductive organs. Kerry in NE corner of Okla. Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 17:47:04 EDT I don't know how many mealies others feed to their blues, but mine could not survive on mealies alone because I only give about 20 at a time. ( only one pair of blues). However, when there are babies I feed accordingly... enough to supplement. One thing, I really enjoy watching the parents flying down to catch something in the grass (that beautiful blue glinting in the sun) and when the young are learning to catch the moths, etc. When weather is clear they don't need mealies. Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 21:48:37 -0400 Chris Statton, The on-going discussion about to/not to offer mealworms has been both fascinating and a source of a cringing feeling as folks express passionate comments back and forth. I've been berated on this subject before and probably will be again, but just have to add my 2 cents (groan). First, I do not believe it is "necessary" to offer mealworms . most of the time. However . I do . all of the time . on an all they can eat basis. I have been doing so for about 5 years. (Note: I "offer" mealworms. It is the blues' choice to or not to eat them. As I hope to demonstrate later in this note, that is not a mere matter of semantics.) I must emphasize the purpose of my posting. The SOLE reason is to give the experiences and observations I - merely one person - have had concerning the blues acceptance of offered food. I began offering mealworms when a pair of blues claimed one of my backyard nestboxes in November, some years back. I gave very thorough consideration as to whether or not I might artificially induce a migratory bird to fail to migrate. However, two considerations came to mind. I offer a food source to hummingbirds and, to my knowledge, have never had any ever fail to migrate. Second, I live very near a national wildlife refuge and observe large (40-50) and small (10-20) flocks of bluebirds there all winter. The refuge bluebirds are not provided with mealworms . at least, not by me. I made my decision to offer mealworms on a one-winter trial basis. If I noticed that the refuge bluebirds left, but the pair in my yard stayed, I would wean the backyard blues off of mealworms the following summer. The refuge birds stayed . and have every winter since. There was also a fleeting concern that perhaps the off-spring of the backyard blues would fail to flourish due to deficient hunting skills. I do not know how closely anyone else observes the blues' behavior - knowing this group, I would say 'closely'. I have gone through the obsessive stage . with only minor moderation now. J This close observation has left me extremely confident that offering mealworms in no way impedes hunting skills or any other of nature's intent. What I have repeatedly seen, year after year: upon fledging, adults lead the young birds to nearby tall trees. After a day or 2, the fledglings are usually - not always - moved even further away. For 2-3 weeks, there are virtually no sightings of fledglings. There are occasional (2-3 times/day) feeder visits by adults. Often the adults feed themselves. Equally as often, they will carry worms off 'to the trees'. I assume these worms are being fed to fledglings. However, there is another "equally as often". I equally as often see the adults hawking nature's bugs while sitting on the roof of a feeder loaded with mealworms. Insert into this process the fact that the adult female usually starts building the next nest 1-2 days before fledging to 1-2 days after. The subsequent nest is often built in 2-3 days with the first egg of the next clutch being laid the day after nest completion. Therefore, the adult female appears to utilize the resource of mealworms to facilitate time on nest building-egg laying and simultaneously assisting with tending fledglings. As for nestlings, my observations require I repeat an above observation. Just as often as the adults take mealworms to the nestlings (almost never to hatchlings), I see them hawk nature's bugs and fly off to the box. It appears that, in spite of an easy food resource, the adults do not loose a sense of the need for a balanced diet for the nestlings. At about the third week post-fledging, the adults bring the surviving fledglings to the feeder. The fledglings are permitted to visit the feeder regularly until the next clutch of eggs hatch. At that point, the fledglings are unceremoniously 'booted' - not only from the feeder, but from the entire yard. This cycle repeats itself through the second and third nesting. For the fledglings from the fourth nesting, the adults do indeed allow them to stay in the yard and visit the feeder as much as they want. However, with slight variation from year to year, sometime between the last 2 weeks of August and the first 2 weeks of October, there are periods of literally weeks when a bluebird is more scarce in the yard than Ivory-billed Woodpeckers . in spite of a fully loaded mealworm feeder. A bluebird is going to eat mealworms if a bluebird wants to eat them. If the blues don't want them, no amount of love or money will convince them otherwise. As the weather gets more serious about being cold, the blues reappear in the yard for the winter. Some years they roost in the boxes; other years they do not. I have not made notes of any correlation of winter severity to box-roosting (wish I had), but my old-age memory strangely seems to think the more severe the winter, the less likely they are to box-roost. The number of winter-dining bluebirds varies, literally on a daily basis, depending upon the severity of the particular winter. In very mild winters, the visits are often only by the resident adults and what I believe to be the last fledged family . usually about 6 birds. In extreme winters - for example, the one we just had (the snowiest on record here) - the number climbs to over 2 dozen . but only on the worst (coldest and/or snowiest) of days. The daily average was 6-12 blues. I do use a heated feeder and . yes, 2 dozen+ blues can eat a lot of worms. I have never had a blue roost in the heated feeder. I have seen them wait out the worst of summer's torrential rains or winter's blizzard by standing inside the feeder. But they fly off at the first break. Sorry for such a long posting. And please keep in mind these are the
observations of only one person and on a short-term basis. Given a mere 5-year
close observation of what could be the laziest, fattest blues- but aren't, I
just don't see any loss of hunting skills on the part of adults or fledglings; I
don't see any artificial tendency to fail to migrate; I don't see any artificial
survival of weak birds. An abundance of food could enhance the physical
condition of a bird, but my personal opinion (yes, "personal") is that it is,
first and foremost, the sense of instinct/intelligence that allows a bird to
'know' how to survive. In spite Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 22:27:17 -0400 I would like to mention that I agree with Chris 100%. No matter how much mealies I give the BBs, they decide how much to take. Sometimes I find the feeder is still full and then I know (as experienced Betty would say to me on her trail) they are finding lots of insects on their own, so they don't need the mealies today! Yet on other days when insects are not found, they consume more mealies. When the babies are feeding, the adults show them how to hunt much more frequently than they show them the feeder. It seems to me that the BBs have as much of a good time seeing me around as I have seeing them when I go to feed them (I really think so!) They show up briefly, then go on with their usual activities... Fawzi from MD This is neither an Chris Statton, Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 19:43:51 -0500 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas 82*F If laying chickens are deprived of water or food for several days they will cease to lay eggs even when food is restored. It may take up to two weeks for egg production in chickens to return to normal. By withholding water and dehydrating the older hens that are tapering off in their egg production you can force them to all begin molting at about the same time. They cease laying eggs but after they grow new feathers they will nearly all begin laying eggs again at the same time making egg collection more profitable. Artificial light at 12 hours a day is ideal for keeping hens laying. Any more than 16 hours a day and egg production decreases. KK Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:27:24 -0400 I know many of you will just have a fit at this post. I am not writing with that intent. I just want to make sure you are aware of some of the possible consequences of your actions. I am also not saying there are no benefits to the type of bluebirding some of you are engaged in. But, with the exception of research and experimental value, the benefit to some of these actions seems to go to people, not the bluebirds. It is still very early in the game but no one knows how widespread the hobby you are involved in will become or what the fate of the bluebird is. Neither do I. But, In my opinion, several generations of bluebirds that rely on mealworms set out beside the nest box that is mounted only 4 or 5 feet from the ground has the potential to cause the bluebird harm. Every time a truly wild bluebird is converted into a more or less meal worm dependent bluebird, there is one less bluebird that relies on, and one or more less clutches of young that learn the entire gambit of LEARNED hunting gathering experiences that kept the species going for thousands of generations. The young of these potentially meal worm dependent bluebirds are taught not how to collect thousands of species of fruits and insects that are hidden in thousands of different hiding places to make food available to them in all the various weather conditions and different seasons, but instead, that life is primarily a dish full of meal worms and a four foot high nest box. Because millions of bluebirds will descend from a single bluebird, each one is even more precious than we can imagine. Therefore, it seems ensuring each one has as much food gathering and other learned skills as possible so it can cope in a harsh world is an important aspect of helping this bird continue as a viable species. I therefore recommend that if you really feel feeding meal worms to bluebirds is a pleasure you can not do without, that you do so no more than a couple times a week, no matter what the weather conditions. Gary Springer PS It also seems a diet consisting of a wide variety of insects that live on and have recently ingested a wide variety of green vegetable matter would be much more healthy than a diet consisting primarily of mealworms raised on little more than pure carbohydrates from grain raised in mineral depleted earth. And, because your bluebirds aren't hungrily gulping down grubs from your neighbors lawn and vegetable garden, they are spraying insecticides to keep their cabbage and tomatoes plants alive and their lawn green. Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:55:47 -0400 In paragraph 4 of my last post "hunting gathering experiences" should be "hunting gathering skills"
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:39:50 -0400 To: The Constituency, and G. Springer, I have read with interest Gary Springer's views in his piece "Learned Skills", and I'm happy to say that I pass all his tests, - or almost all. Whether his views have scientific or ornithological validity or not, I have no idea, but most of them make sense to me. Of my 29 sites (each with a couple of paired houses: total 58) only two ever get a single mealworm from me. And those two might get some mealwoms once or twice a week, more or less, usually less. More often than not they go for several weeks with no mealworms at all. In every case I use the worms only for photo-ops, and not as part of any regular feeding program. None of my houses is in my yard. The other 27 sites I monitor every week or ten days, and that's all they see of me all summer. Occasionally I'll bring the Nikon along on the outside chance that something film-worthy might be happening. Usually I forget to bring it. It certainly is fun to watch Bluebirds scarf down the mealworms. No doubt about that. And the worms are useful in bringing the birds within camera range. But many of us doubt that the birds really NEED this support, and some, like Gary, feel even more strongly than that. This appears to be one of those debates that will go on forever. blueburd"at"srnet.com Bruce Burdett, NH Bluebird Conspiracy, Sunapee NH Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:56:50 -0500 Snip Hello Gary & All: Let me add my input to an already beaten, tired, old subject. The bluebirds nesting in my yard last year raised four broods. As another brood came along the older brood was promptly booted out, never to return. I had an opportunity to fraternize with one pair of adults out of the four broods During zero weather with everything covered with ice and snow the adults and probably the last fledglings, minus one, returned for mealworms after being gone for two months or longer. These birds were evidently starving from the way they acted, anyone witnessing their behaviour would testify to that. As soon as the weather moderated they were gone and I have not seen them since and do not expect to. Conclusion: Those birds remained wild, but remembered where they had once found food. This year I have a pair of younsters using this box. They are not last years adults. It's anyones guess as to whether or not they were any of last years fledglings. I have probably spent as much time as anyone, watching and feeding these birds up close, very close. I can tell you firsthand they will take what they want from you, when they want to and remain wild and beautiful birds. You and I are not going to change this, even if we tried. It is quite like the proverb about sticking your finger in a bucket of water and observing the hole that it leaves when you pull it out. Bruce Johnson ~ Life Mbr. NABS Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 02:22:54 -0400 Dear Bruce, You wrote: During zero weather with everything covered with ice and snow the adults and probably the last fledglings, minus one, returned for mealworms after being gone for two months or longer. These birds were evidently starving from the way they acted, anyone witnessing their behavior would testify to that. As soon as the weather moderated they were gone and I have not seen them since and do not expect to. Conclusion: Those birds remained wild, but remembered where they had once found food." With all due respect, I believe the conclusion you reached from the events you described could well be incorrect and that your bluebirds may have lost some of their survival skills as a result of meal worm dependency. I've been watching birds come to winter bird feeders for 35 years, often in icy sub-zero temperatures and with 3 feet of snow on the ground. I must have observed thousands and thousands of birds return to my feeders, yet in all these years, not one single bird ever looked like it was starving. Also, for hundreds of hours I have observed birds in the wild far away from feeders, many times in deep snow and sub-zero weather, yet I never saw a starving bird. Is it possible your starving bluebirds ventured too far from their most well recognized food source and were forced to endure a long journey back when harsh weather made it impossible for them to find a substitute food? Gary Springer From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net Hello all, There is a common characteristic to the nest box mounting height, hazardous cedar nest box , meal worm, wooden and tree mounted nest box, smoking, and pesticide use debates. That is that there are nearly unlimited observations made that seem to indicate it doesn't really matter which way you go. Thousands of Bluebirds fledge from cedar nest boxes mounted four feet high every year. Bluebirds raised on meal worms fledge and return year after year. Bluebirds are observed fledging from nest boxes mounted on trees and wooden fence posts every year, even in the Eastern United States where large constrictor type black snakes are still plentiful. Two pack a day cigarette smokers celebrate their 90th birthday every year. And, life on the planet hasn't ceased even though billions of tons of pesticide have been dumped into the environment. But these events in no way, shape or form indicate there is not risk associated with the action or state. And, as in the case of all these issues, when there is evidence or reason to believe there is risk associated with the action or state, and, if we care enough about the outcome, we as reasoning beings will avoid it, especially when no gain is made with exposure to the risk, potential for negative consequences exist, and little or no effort is required to completely eliminate the potential risk and/or consequences. At the present level of occurrence, meal worm feeding presently poses no potential threat to the bluebirds, and, there is a possibility we can learn something new by close observation that meal worm feeding makes possible. Hopefully it will remain at this level and not become a wide spread fad, in which case, I believe, the activity would reduce the effectiveness of the nest box movement. But, feeding meal worms positively negates one of the most positive impacts of bluebirding, which is reducing pesticide use by increasing natural insect control. I also find it annoying that the power of this list is being diminished because new bluebirders reading our posts begin to believe meal worm feeding has something to do with success at the nest box. It does not. In fact it can reduce success rates because increasing activity from other birds increases stress to nesting bluebirds and attracts other birds that potentially drive bluebirds away. And, the new bluebirders zest and energy is being deflected away from the most important thrust of bluebirding, providing quality nest boxES, and into meal worm feeding. I have never given a single meal worm to a bluebird on my property and there are bluebird eggs in a nest box 60 feet from my kitchen window, 3 additional active nests within 200 yards of my house and a 5th nest at the end of my driveway. All these boxes have bluebird eggs but one and the female was taking nest material to it this morning. Carolina Wrens fledged from the side of my house last week and there is one box of baby chickadees in the front yard, one in the back yard, and one beside the driveway. This was accomplished, not by feeding meal worms, but by providing nest boxes with gobs of ventilation, extremely thick entrance holes, lowering the nests to increase the distance between the eggs and the outside world, and mounting the nest boxes on greased metal poles positioned up high enough to prevent predators from acquiring a taste for nest box cuisine. Gary Springer Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 18:22:45 -0400 (EDT) Gary Springer wrote: But, feeding meal worms positively negates one of the most No disrespect intended, but I don't think this is a realistic perception. While you and I and all the others who observe birds know that's true, the Must Have a Perfectly Green and Weed and Pest Free Lawn set don't know it and frankly, a lot of them wouldn't believe it or even care if you did tell them. I know from reading my regional gardening Usenet newsgroup, observing some of my neighbors, and watching folks at Lowe's and Home Depot that there are a lot of people here in suburbia who routinely and automatically spread poisons on their lawns. Now I have tried to broach the subject of the dangers of that and the various forms of natural pest control with some of those folks and have gotten reactions as mildly dismissive as an "Um, that's nice" to an outraged "I'm not interested in any tree hugging liberal claptrap". I'm familiar with the loss of learned behavior debate as it pertains to other wildlife (even caughta bit of one on NPR just last Friday afternoon) so I guess I'm not surprised to find it on this list. And while in this case, as in others, I think both sides of the issue make valid points, I just can't get too worked up about mealworm feeding. I certainly have no compunctions or guilt about *supplementing* the natural diets of the birds who visit my yard with mealworms, just as I have no compunctions or guilt about making a big batch of homemade suet a couple times a month so that my four suet cages never go empty, or keeping my couple dozen or so birdfeeders filled with a variety of seeds and fruits and my half a dozen or so birdbaths cleaned and filled with fresh water. Because even with all that, I can still sit on the patio and watch the male bluebird drop suddenly out of the pine tree and grab a nice tasty bug out of the freshly mown backyard several times an hour and I still get distracted by the non-stop scratching of the brown thrashers, sparrows, and blue jays who are busily hunting insects under the ligustrum bushes. In fact, while I was sitting out there while ago, trying vainly to concentrate on the book I was reading, I was surprised by a gray catbird who landed not five feet from me and spent several seconds scolding me before taking off to check out one of the suet feeders. After a couple bites, he hopped down and began scouring the grass, which I imagine he was pleased to find has no shortage of spiders. Again, no disrespect intended, but I don't see the harm in mealworm feeding. AFAIC, it's my small contribution to leveling the playing field - a field we've made uneven by destroying habitat, bringing in non-native,aggressive competitors, and poisoning and/or eradicating much of the natural food source. -- Jordan, Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 06:15:36 -0700 Are we doing the EABL a favour by putting out mealworms etc to attract them? If the bird is attracted to an area that cannot support it due to a lack of grubs, and is relying on mealworms, then surely this creates problems if the feeding is suspended or more food is required to feed young. The bird then has to search throughout a larger area, leaving the nest more vunerable to predator attack. Alan Cullum Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 10:47:27 -0500 Keith Kridler Sandy posted about the possible "bad mealworms" in the box in the ASAP post. This is just as I mentioned in a post last week, these larger baby birds will reject insects and refuse to eat the offering if they have a choice. These birds are TIRED of eating only mealworms and are spitting them out. The birds unlike humans tend to know what type foods they need to be eating to produce a balanced diet. They maybe craving a vitamin or mineral lacking in a mealworm fed a very limited diet! There are EIGHTEEN essential vitamins and minerals that are KNOWN to cause death or deformities in baby chickens if they are either absent or too concentrated in either the baby birds diet OR in the diet of the female while the egg is forming in her body! Researchers know which of these will cause the egg to not hatch or the days after hatching that the deficiency will show up! Supplemental mealworm feeding MIGHT be OK I don't think an all you can eat mealworm feeder is a good idea at all. The mealworms can only contain the vitamins and minerals in their bodies that are contained in the food they are eating! You try to go for 18 days and only eat a plain hamburger on a bun with no other item or seasoning. You must buy it at the same fast food restaurant morning, noon and night for a full 18 days and drink only water. On day 18 you must eat one every 15 minutes.....Think about this when placing your mealworms in a feeder! How many thousands of species of insects are available for the birds to eat? Just like these birds relying on easy mealworms, how many children in their twenties (30's40's) can truly cook a complete thanksgiving dinner fresh from the farm! I am talking from recognizing one garden plant from the next & finding, digging and peeling the potatoes to what to do with poor old Tom behind the wood shed when you run him down! How many can go to a restaurant and order or pick up a complete meal? Cooks learn from other cooks how to prepare and fix elaborate meals. Birds need to learn how to prepare their meals also, but they need to be taught by their parents! KK Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 15:55:08 -0500 On a recent episode of Animal Planet's "Wildlife Emergency" a lone mallard duckling was brought in to a rehab center. In discussing what to feed it, the vet stated it would not be fed mealworms, because they don't provide calcium, and too many make the diet unbalanced. Something to think about.... Kate Oschwald Bluebird feeding - Philosophy (Part 3) |
BEST OF BLUEBIRD_L CLASSIFIEDS HOME | Audubon Society of Omaha | The Bluebird Box | Bluebird FAQs | Search | Contact meAll material was originally posted on the Bluebird_L or Bluebird mailing list, and has been reposted here with slight modifications to make the posts more readable in an HTML format. In cases in which quoted material has been deleted to save space, this is indicated by an ellipsis (...)For more information about Bluebird_L, check out http://www.cit.corn.edu/cit-pubs/email/using-lists/index.htm. If you wish to contact the author of a post, you will need to edit the e-mail address, replacing "at" with the "at" symbol (above the number 2 on your keyboard). (This change was made to discourage spammers.)If you are the author of a posting and would like to see a particular post (or posts) removed from these web pages, please contact me with the web page address, title of post, and date and time of the post(s), and I will remove whatever material you like. If you have a different opinion from one posted here, you need not contact me, as often I will have a different opinion too. The intent is to try and provide both sides to the issues facing bluebirders, and to do so in an impartial and objective manner.If you have problems, encounter broken links (unless they are within an e-mail thread, as I do not maintain those links), or have suggestions on how the site can be improved to make it more useful, please contact the Best of Bluebird-L Classifieds webmaster.Website design by
Chimalis
|
