Bluebird Feeding - Mealworms (Part 4)

In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website: 

• Feeding bluebirds by Linda Janilla Peterson (including the bluebird banquet recipe)
• The cottonseed meal recipe for bluebird food
• Bluebird feeder sketches by Linda Janilla Peterson
• Mealworm feeding
• How  To Start And Maintain A Mealworm Colony by John Thompson
• FEEDING MEALWORMS - Solving the Problem of Mealworm Getaway By Nola Aiken
• Peanut Butter Pudding by Katherine Smith
• The Smith Meal Worm Feeder by Katherine Smith
• Feeding bluebirds by Jan Alhgren

I have been reading all the comments about mealworms since I joined the list. I order my worms from Nature's Way. I keep the bags of 10,000 worms as they are shipped in a refrigerator in my garage. I thought that if they were refrigerated they would remain dormant and not need to eat. So far I have not had any problems with the worms although if someone suggests otherwise I will do something different.

Please let me know. All suggestions are welcome!

Maria Pino
Norton, MA

Maria,

It depends on how quickly you use 10K worms. They will remain dormant in the fridge, but I've always heard that you should let them warm up to room temp and eat for 24 hours every week or so. For that reason, I never kept them in the canvas bags they come in, because it would be difficult - if not impossible - to feed them in there. I empty the bags into a shallow tupperware dish with a layer of bedding - corn meal, oats bran, or similar. Poke tiny holes in the lid, because they need air. Then store that in the fridge. This way it's easier to feed them on a regular schedule - just cut a piece of apple or potato, place in the container, and leave at room temperature for 24 hours - at the end, remove whatever is left uneaten, and put the container back in the fridge.

Cher

From: Maria Pino [mailto:mfpino"at"comcast.net]
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 8:34 PM
Subject: Mealworm question

Thanks for your responses. I have put the mealworms into containers with wheat bran and corn meal. I have also fed them carrots, lettuce, and celery, as suggested. The poor worms must have been starving. I have fed them a couple of times today. They are eating everything. I plan to put them back in the refrigerator tomorrow night.

What is the purpose of the wheat bran and corm meal? Do they eat them as well?

Thanks again,

Maria Pino
Norton, MA

From: kingston [mailto:kingston"at"cstone.net]
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: Mealworm question

Maria,

Check http://nabluebirdsociety.org/mealworm.htm for more information and

The Fact Sheet on Mealworms

Ron Kingston
Charlottesville VA

We got snow in the northeast a few days ago and I haven't seen any bluebirds since though I did regularly during the Fall. I was not able to train them to eat mealworms yet. Is it still worth trying to put mealworms out or should I assume the bluebirds flew south and try again in the Spring?

David
Old Chatham, NY

I think it's going to be difficult to train them in winter, and the mealies will simply freeze. Do you have a "bluebird feeder"? I'm talking about a feeder with 1 1/2" holes on opposite sides of the
Feeder and 1 1/2" square hardware cloth on the opposite sides. That's the feeder I used, and still use, for mealworms, because the blues will investigate the holes. If you have blues this winter, I would recommend "bluebird banquet" instead of mealies, but it may be difficult to attract them without the proper feeder.
>
> Diane Seward
> Potomac, MD

Thanks for your advice. I bought an Evergreen bluebird feeder more of a jail grid style. I do have bluebird nuggets and nuts and bugs. Is this the same thing as bluebird banquet or can the bluebird banquet be bought on line or in stores? I know I will never make it myself. Of course the mealies I put out did freeze and other birds found the new feeder and ate them fast anyway. It seems like for the mealies I should wait until Spring... do you think I should try the other goodies now or wait?
I sort of have this feeling the bluebirds have flown south now.

You could try, but I think I'd only put them out if you see an EABL
or two hanging around. Lots of other birds (and squirrels!) also
like mealworms, and may make off with your treats. Jean in Nashville

From: RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com [mailto:RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com]
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: Newly hatched mealworms escaping!

Hi

Mealworms can be a real problem. I got a batch by mail and put the box unopened in a closet for a day or so. I assumed they were packed tight, but about 120 got out. I rounded up about 80 and for the next few weeks kept finding them. I think I found the last one about 8 weeks later! They had nothing to feed on or drink, but somehow lasted that long. Unbelieveable.

Ron
Brooksville, FL

From: Bet Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net]
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 3:02 PM
Subject: RE: Newly hatched mealworms escaping!

I had two experiences like this, both associated with my husband.

1. I was away on travel, and my husband decided to leave the 5,000 mealworms in the muslin bag they came in from one supplier, and put them in our fieldstone basement until I got back. Upon my return, there was a large hole in the bag and no mealworms. I don’t even want to THINK about what made the hole.
2. I was separating out some mealworms from bran and left them in a bowl that didn’t have slick sides, next to my husband’s wallet. He was finding mealworms in his wallet for a week afterwards.

The key is to deal with them as soon as they arrive. I bring the box outside, and dump them out into a white plastic garbage bag (since they don’t stick to it, and it’s easier to shake out the box the worms came in or shake out crumpled newspaper/egg cartons in the box), take out the newspaper, blow off the shed skins, and then transfer the beasties to the refrigerator container.

Bet from CT

PS I keep a list of mail order mealworm suppliers at http://www.sialis.org/bluebirdstore.htm#mealworms

I am relatively inexperienced with meal worms. I used to buy them at Walmart, thirty in a small cup with small wood shavings. I believe they were marketed for fishermen. Now I am trying to avoid Walmart and have discovered they are much less expensive to order in bulk. Usually when they arrive, I put them in a large plastic coffee can with a bed of corn meal, the top has numerous air holes. I keep the in the refrigerator, scooping a serving out with a one half cup sieve on a handle, gently shaking to remove most of the meal. As they warm up I take them directly to the feeder blowing the remainder of the meal off as I go.

I ordered 5000 a couple of weeks ago and packaged them as usual but have not gotten to use them as soon as I had planned. I had read
they should be in a larger container and fed. I bought a large,
sort of shallow plastic container and put holes in the lid. I transferred them to this container and put in several 'finger'
carrots and left them out of the refrigerator. I was supposed to remove the remaining carrots and put them back in the refrigerator in twenty four hours. I forgot to do this, so they have been out maybe three days.

I was mesmerized by what I discovered when I remembered them today. There were numerous 'black' ones on top that I assume are dead. The carrots are nearly strings, however what happened next was what really surprised me. The corn meal would slowly move and one would wiggle up, standing almost on its tail doing this cobra like dance. Then it does this jumping, squirming, twisting thing very fast and slowly starts coming out of its skin. It is very pale, almost transparent, with some dark spots inside. I lose track of them soon, they either burrow into the cornmeal or turn tan fast. I watched this happen several times. Are they supposed to do this?

What happened to the ones that were dead? What did I do to cause them to die, they were fine when they arrived. How does one separate these dark carcasses and the skin they come out of from the good meal worms? Do I put them back in the refrigerator now, or have I gone beyond the point of no return? The ones around the carrots are definitely bigger. Should I go ahead and use them and the blue birds will only get the good ones? Should I dump them and reorder? I certainly have a container of squirmy worms.

Lana Hunt
Morehead, KY

From: Bet Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net]
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 3:02 PM
Subject: RE: Newly hatched mealworms escaping!

I had two experiences like this, both associated with my husband.

1. I was away on travel, and my husband decided to leave the 5,000 mealworms in the muslin bag they came in from one supplier, and put them in our fieldstone basement until I got back. Upon my return, there was a large hole in the bag and no mealworms. I don’t even want to THINK about what made the hole.
2. I was separating out some mealworms from bran and left them in a bowl that didn’t have slick sides, next to my husband’s wallet. He was finding mealworms in his wallet for a week afterwards.

The key is to deal with them as soon as they arrive. I bring the box outside, and dump them out into a white plastic garbage bag (since they don’t stick to it, and it’s easier to shake out the box the worms came in or shake out crumpled newspaper/egg cartons in the box), take out the newspaper, blow off the shed skins, and then transfer the beasties to the refrigerator container.

Bet from CT

PS I keep a list of mail order mealworm suppliers at http://www.sialis.org/bluebirdstore.htm#mealworms

Lana - I didn't see a reply to your email, but perhaps you got an answer off list. Just in case you didn't, here's what I think.

- Yes, mealworms turn black when they croak. Throw them out. Even my pet ducks won't eat them. I
haven't found a good way to separate out live vs. dead mealworms, other than maybe putting layers of moist paper towels on top and then live ones crawl into the towels.

- Too many worms stored in too small a container will overheat and die (e.g., 5,000 worms in a 2 gallon pail=dead worms.) I like to put empty milk cartons in there so they can spread out. A larger surface area may improve survival by dissipating heat.

- The wiggling and then coming out of skin is normal - they are growing too big for their exoskeleton and are shedding the skin (which sort of looks like cornflakes). Mealworms undergo a series of molts (10-20, average of 15) before pupating.

For more info on feeding mealworms, I have webpage at http://www.sialis.org/feeder.htm For info on raising mealworms, see http://www.sialis.org/raisingmealworms.htm

Most of the info on these pages is gleaned from the Bluebird_L!

Bet from CT

From: stan blaylock [mailto:birdwatcher103"at"bellsouth.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 12:35 PM
Subject: Matt & Katy

Nowhere within sight or sound, but yet, within seconds of replenishing the mealworms, Matt & Katy (Bluebird pair) are at the feeder gorging themselves. Is there such a thing as too many mealworms?

When I see bluebirds gorging themselves on mealworms, to me it means they’re reallllly hungry. You didn’t mention where you are located, but if temps are under 40 degrees, insects aren’t really available. In some areas, this late in winter, there are no berries left (a flock of starlings can strip a shrub/tree in a day.)

If you are going to feed mealworms (not everyone "believes" in it) Fawzi Emad recommends putting about 15 per bird (count nestlings as a bird) each day. I've seen each blue eating about 3-10 per visit.

More info (from http://www.sialis.org/feeder.htm:

NABS indicates that "because they should be used as a supplemental food, mealworms should only be offered once or twice a day unless poor weather conditions dictate more frequent feeding. A hundred or so worms offered morning and evening would be adequate for a pair with a box of nestlings."
Feeding smaller amounts twice a day is a good idea to ensure that bluebirds get some, and to prevent other species from "discovering" the feeder.

Other birds that enjoy mealworms include tufted titmice, carolina wrens, nuthatches, chickadees, red bellied woodpeckers, blue jays and mockingbirds. One of the nice things about mealworms is that there is no waste left behind - no seeds or shells.

Occasionally after nestlings have fledged you may find a few mealworms in the nesting material. Not to worry - they probably got missed by the babies during feeding.

Sometimes yellow jackets will go after mealworms. If you limit quantities so that the ones you put out are eaten right away, this shouldn't be a problem.

Lana,

I hardly ever refrigerate my mealworms. I actually have a couple of tubs
(cultures) in my basement right now. They were in my garage last summer.
If you keep them out like you are doing, they continue to develop. That is what you saw when the one larva (worm) shed it's shell. It was getting bigger and needed to develop a new skin. When the worms are white and soft like this (right when they shed), they are an especially delectable treat for baby birds or birds in general I've been told. They will continue to do this throughout their life cycle, shedding their skin, growing a little, shedding again, until they become a pupae. The pupae looks like a miniature "alien" from the movie Aliens to me. Some will wiggle violently when you touch them and they are loved by little boys and hated by little girls :) After the pupae state, they become an adult beetle. When they first become a beetle, they appear brown and the wings are all wrinkly, but then they turn black eventually. Then they lay tiny little eggs that I cannot see and a while later (I'm talking several months unless temperatures are very warm), you will see really tiny little mealworms in there. We are talking about an eighth of an inch long little guys. These then grow and grow as before until they are of feeding size.

Since I feed so many in the spring/ summer months, I usually order them a couple times a season (5,000 like you did). I like to order small or medium worms so I can let some grow without pupating and feed these to the EABL.
If I get a lot of large ones, I will refrigerate some to keep them from pupating and keep them at feeding size. I let some go on to the beetle/egg laying stage and continue on in their bin of oatmeal or cornmeal so I always have some babies in there brewing. It saves money on buying worms all the time if I let them reproduce some on their own. I also put an apple wedge (or carrots should do nicely) in there for moisture needs.

Things to be careful of are watch out for mealy moths (I think that is what you call them) and other meal eating pest insects. If you get mealy moths in your culture, they make a sticky web almost like cotton candy. You sometimes find them in old bird seed. If you have your mealworm culture in your house, you then risk the chance of infestation into your flour bin and cereal boxes. My husband once ate a bowl of cereal that contained some such flour pest that I truly did not intend to feed him :) For this reason, I like to keep my mealworm culture in the garage during summer months. You will find that the hot summer temperatures speed up worm development considerably as well. I only bring mealworm cultures in the house in the late fall if they are pest free.

Paula Z
Powell (Central) Ohio

From: Sara Ann [mailto:sawright"at"direcway.com]
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 12:47 PM
Subject: Responsibility of feeding; slightly OT

Sonny is always up before the crack of dawn, literally, sitting with his coffee, watching the deer and wild turkeys as the day lightens. He always loves to hear the first bird songs.

After the sun rose this morning, he saw our first pair of nesting BB sitting on top of their swinging feeder and was glad to see that they were finally trained to come check it out. Then the Carolina wrens who are nesting in the barn came to their mealworm dish on the windowsill at Sonny's feet, and.............just stared at him, as if to say 'it's 35 degrees and we're hungry, you lazy human.' So, Sonny got the mealworms out of the fridge and went out to give everyone their breakfast. Back in his chair with his coffee, watching the birds eat, he thought 'Rats, the hummingbirds will be here before long, flying around like little Kamikazee pilots and pitching fits if their feeders go empty.' Then he remembered how he's unintentionally trained the dogs to greet him as he leaves for town, since he always gives them a bone.

Sonny said that suddenly all the joy was gone from his early morning and 'I don't think I can handle all this responsibility........'

Sara Ann Wright
Thayer MO

.... Sonny and I have been so excited with spring's arrival......talking about all our plans in the yard, etc. Sonny had said that lots of folks hate to mow, but even though we have several acres, he loves mowing.....it's relaxing to him and gives him such satisfaction. He's a much more visual person than I and knows where every nest is on our property and who's in it. He loves nearly all of our birds as much as he loves the BB's.

For Sonny, summer is FUN! Even the chores are fun. But. The chores are done and are enjoyed at his pace. I don't nag. There is no fixed schedule.

This morning, he was making a joke. He was implying that all of the creatures we love make us feel responsible for them. Of course, that's simply how we mere humans interpret it.

Oftentimes, during the winter, we seem to cook more for our birds than we do for ourselves! But what pleasure we get from it. Our birdbaths are heated, and we build extra brush piles for all the creatures to use during the cold weather.

We don't monitor large trails like so many of you do. (Stars in your
crowns!) We have 17 BB boxes on 23 acres. They aren't all used by BB, but we dispatch any HS that attempt to use them. We have several PM houses that are always full, and a new house is going up shortly. We have several 1/2 gallon hummingbird feeders, and during the summer, our fridge usually holds more sugar water than human food!

Our grandchildren are all city kids, bless their little hearts. So our goal is to see that they grow up with a love a nature. When they come, they love to fill the bird feeders and deer feeders. They have held snakes and mealworms. They have watched hummingbirds from just inches away.
We find every bird's nest we can and check on the eggs/babies. The children ride horses, feed cows, and they fish.

When they are grown, I will see to it that they, too, have a bluebird box. Then it will be up to them to find their appropriate path in becoming a good steward of their little corner of the world.

...Sara Ann Wright
Thayer MO

From: Sara Ann [mailto:sawright"at"direcway.com]
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 10:01 AM
Subject: O.T.? Do mealworms have bones?

Granddaughter is visiting and asked an interesting question. Do mealworms have bones? It's been too long since biology for me to know the answer!

Sara Ann Wright
Thayer MO

Hi Sara Ann,

Nope, no bones for insects. They rely on their exoskeleton to give them shape & attachment places for their muscles.

When they pupate (say, a mealworm into a beetle or a caterpillar into a butterfly), all their insides essentially dissolve & reform. When they climb out of their pupal case, they look entirely different from when they started. (I can't imagine it feels good to dissolve.)

Other insects go thru "instar" stages. In these guys, the young look a lot like the adults, only each stage is bigger & maybe the wings are developed a little more or something until they finally reach adulthood. These guys do a lot of shedding of old exoskeletons & growing of new, larger exoskeletons.

Long-lived bugs may grow a little after adulthood & will shed ocassionally. When my tarantula shed her skin, it looked just like another spider in with her. (She hid for a day or 2 until her new skin had stiffened up. Just after shedding is a very vulnerable time for any bug.) (& no, spiders aren't bugs. All the things with exoskeletons -- insects, spiders, crustaceans, millipedes, etc -- are arthropods. "Bugs" is more fun to say, tho. :-])

I'm glad your granddaughter is interested in the creepy crawlies. Everybody likes the cute beasties -- like bluebirds -- but the not-cute critters have fewer admirers. Oftentimes, they're the more interesting ones, but i know i'm biased. :-)

Torrey Wenger
Kalamazoo Nature Center
Kalamazoo, MI

I've found that "Feeder Training" is quicker and easier with some pairs than with others, but it is possible.

The trick is to make a series of gradual changes, each time linking something familiar with something new. If the birds seem confused, just back off a step, and try again. Like Tree and Sara, I start with a dish of warm, wiggly mealies on the ground, near where the birds perch to hunt. Once I have the birds coming to the dish, I then place the feeder on the ground next to the dish, then place the dish (or a similar dish) inside the open feeder, then close up the feeder, then start moving the feeder to where I want to mount or hang it permanently, then remove the familiar dish, and replace it with the dish I want to use in the feeder.

I do this over a period of a few days, preferably when I have time to sit and watch the process - especially during the early stages when the mealies are out in the open and the other birds are trying to steal them. (My biggest robbers are the Bluejays.) You want to be sure you're training the Blues, not other birds. Although, if you're using a feeder designed to exclude Starlings, Mockers, and other large birds, they won't be able to get at the mealies once the feeder is closed up, it's preferable not to let them get too interested in the feeder in the first place, because they might try to defend it from the Blues, even if they can't get inside it themselves. Little winged hoodlums!

Cher

From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: Feeder Training Bluebirds (was "Re: Fw: J-molding ...")

Cher, I have hundreds of birds come to my yard in the winter. What has worked for me to keep the others away from the bb feeder, is to put their seed on the ground quite a ways from the bb feeder. If I don't, they come to the yard and I have too many invaders. I still have an occasional Cardinal or Goldfinch to get something from the feeder, but not nearly like it is if I didn't feed them in another area.

So far, I've not been lucky enough to get a woodpecker, but if I did, I would just have to put up their own private feeder!

Also, it is not a good idea to have the feeder too close to the nestbox as it invites attention and birds close to it which is not a good thing.

Evelyn

Evelyn and all,

You make a good point about keeping the Bluebird feeder a distance from both any seed feeders you may have for other birds, and from the nestbox. Although I occasionally will begin by putting the dish of warm, wiggly mealies on the ground *near* the nestbox, just to get the Blues'
attention, I don't leave it there long. And if the Blues have another spot where they sit to hunt, it's preferable to put the dish near there instead. No sense drawing the attention of other birds to the nestbox, if you can help it!

Cher

Evelyn and Cher, Have you noticed BB themselves fighting over a mealworm feeder? Or do they tend to share?

Sara Ann
Missouri

Sara, I do not feed mealworms, but I have great success with raisins and chunky peanut butter ball with oatmeal.

Most of the time they share.

However, this one male backyard Bluebird is the most aggressive Bluebird I have ever seen in my life. There are some days he would not even let his "lady love" have a raisin. In fact, I have seen him fight several Bluebirds at a time off of it.

Also, I have seen him sit beside the empty feeder on the line from which it is hanging and make some very loud noises like he was fussing about it.

Evelyn

Sara, since I usually have only one couple at a time nesting in my backyard habitat, I've never noticed any fighting. The worst it got was the year the couple overwintered, along with all the fledglings. Then, in the spring, when they were setting up territories, the adults drove away the previous year's young ones. Although when the weather turned cold and snowy after they'd already begun establishing their territory, they did relent for a day or two and allow the kids to come home for a bite to eat.

Kind of like us human parents with grown-up kids, eh?

Cher

I agree. With very few exceptions like an ice storm, I feed birds for my enjoyment. They can
find plenty of natural food except in extraordinary conditions.

My goal is to get them to use the feeders where we can observe them well and conveniently refill the
feeders.

Take care,

R J 'Tree' Greenwood
Catlett VA

From: denisefarmer"at"comcast.net [mailto:denisefarmer"at"comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 9:51 PM
Subject: Mealworm ? and wasp ?

Hi all,

From the posts I have read, I gather that you offer mealworms to the BB's on your trails. How do you offer them up? Do you put a dish somewhere near the box? I want to take some to my nesting pair but not sure how to do this.

There were a couple of paper wasps in the butterfly box where the BB's have their four eggs. Will the wasps evict the BB's? there isn't a door on this box, so I cannot open it up and get the wasps out. I feel rather helpless and truly wish I had taken this stupid box down before the BB's returned. Next year it will certainly not be in this field and by then I will have built numerous boxes that I can put up to replace this box and hopefully get many other pairs in new boxes next year

Thanks
Denise
Parkville, MD

From: lviolett [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net]
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 12:44 AM
Subject: Re: Mealworm ? and wasp ?

Putting mealworms out on the trail is simple. You put down a few mealworms on a bare hard surface (dry pavement, brick, sidewalk, flat rock) in the shade where the Bluebirds can see them from their perch or box. Takes less than a minute for my Blues to figure it out. After the first couple of mealworm visits, you can start "hiding" mealworms on the bark of trees or on exposed tree roots and Bluebirds will look for them.

Don't leave a surplus of mealworms in plain site or it will cause commotion around the Bluebird box.

Linda Violett
Yorba Linda, Calif.

From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net]
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: Mealworm dishes

Denise,
I like to use small Corningware dessert dishes (white) to offer mealworms. The sides are steep enough and slick enough to keep them from crawling out. I put them on railings, on pole platforms, - anything to keep them off the ground a little. It helps to drill a little hole in the bottom with a glass-bit to drain out rainwater.(But better still, just don't leave the dishes out in the rain.)
I don't usually offer more than about a dozen at a time. These worms are mostly for our own entertainment, in my opinion. The birds certainly can get along fine without them, and have for centuries.

Bruce Burdett, SW NH

From: Bet Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net]
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 2:33 PM
Subject: RE: Mealworm ? and wasp ?

Denise wrote:

hey make a little glass dish that sits in a metal circle that you can attach to a pole. Donna – I think you have one, do you remember where you got it? Was it Wild Birds Unlimited?

I wouldn’t recommend putting more than 5 or 10 per bird in there (so they all get eaten up right away), to avoid attracting competitors.

Bet from CT

From: agriffee [mailto:agriffee"at"adelphia.net]
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 6:44 PM
Subject: Keeping mealworms

I just got 10,000 mealworms. Put in 17.5x 11.5x 4" deep plastic container. Kept 5,000 ok last year but wonder if container big enough for 10,000? Filled with cornmeal.

Arnold

From: Sheila Rogers [mailto:sheilarogers"at"charter.net]
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: Keeping mealworms

Arnold
Just put  split the 10,000 MW in 2 containers, you must have a lot of Blues:(

Sheil

From: mrtony8 [mailto:philip.berry"at"mchsi.com]
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 6:05 AM
Subject: Re: Keeping mealworms

I use a small aquarium filled (partly) with corn meal. Mine keep for years in my office.

Phil Berry

From: Sue [mailto:siouxzieq_0"at"cox.net]
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 4:55 PM
To: BLUEBIRD-L"at"cornell.edu
Subject: Hatchlings

I couldn't see very well, but it looks like at least two of the four eggs hatched as of this morning. Maybe all four did but they are so small still--I could only see the two right now. They only look a day or two old which makes sense. Eggs were laid two weeks ago Sunday. Mama and papa have been in and out of there all day feeding. They haven't given the mealworms I put out for the Carolina Wrens a second glance, but then they never have. There are copious other natural insects for their dining pleasure anyway. Funny thing too (noticed this in another post), the HOSP seem to have disappeared. The nest seems deserted.

Susan Wenzel, Virginia Beach, VA

Susan --

Blues don't normally feed mealies to nestlings right from the start. It's usually after a few days but there are exceptions!). Also, it might likely depend on the abundance of other insects, which right now is really high, especially for insects in the "larval" stages.

One thing you might try is putting out a small container with mealies close to the box, and progressively moving it closer and closer to the feeder you currently use each day. For some reason, BB's don't always find Mworm feeders easily and by doing this you'll show them and get them to "search" more. Once they find it, they'll use it.

I have CACH and CARW's coming for mealies right now, and there's an EABL pair that is nesting in a wren box (yea, I know) just on the other side of the house. Both the male and female EABL are using a tree right beside the mealie feeder to pick off insects in the yard, but they're ignoring the feeder... and they both have been using it prior to nesting, so they know where it is. Anyway, they've found something in the yard that's more appealling, so I'll just keep the chickadee and wrens fat and happy!

Take care --J

Jimmy Dodson
Asst Forest Manager -- NCSU Dept of Forestry & Environmental Resources
Campus: 3024B Biltmore Hall, Raleigh, NC

From: Linda Ruth [mailto:lindaruth"at"earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 7:20 PM
Subject: RE: BB observations

There is really no need for a fancy bluebird feeder. I put the mealworms out in a terra cotta saucer (the kind that goes under a flowerpot) about 20' from the box when the bluebirds are actively foraging. I leave them exposed in the saucer until the bluebirds see them moving and start to eat them. It sometimes takes a day or two to get them started. After that I lay an egg carton (the paper ones that come with purchased mealworms) over the worms to protect them from the sun. The bluebirds very quickly figure out how to turn over the carton to retrieve the worms. Bluebird with a nest full of young may catch over 100 insects a day, so you don't need to worry about them starving if you stop giving them worms. I have found that catbirds also enjoy them. Bluebirds absolutely love waxworms, which are also available from insect breeders. Unfortunately, they are expensive and not very hardy, so use them up quickly. You can also feed ! them caterpillars (keeps the kids busy too). Make sure you use only plain green or brown caterpillars (they love cutworms). The colorful pretty ones and those with fuzz or spines are often poisonous.
Mealworms are exceptionally hardy if kept dry. They will turn black and die rapidly if they are kept in a moist environment. Use potatoes or apples very sparingly. Mealworms are adapted to the dry environments where grain is stored. I wouldn't give them any fruit if they are going to be used in a few weeks. Certainly give them no more than a tiny slice of apple or potato (the amount they can finish in a day) every couple of weeks. I once misplaced a closed plastic container full of newly hatched mealworms and bran (no source of moisture). When I found it 6 months later the worms were alive and well, but small. I gave them a piece of apple, and they all molted and grew to a normal size in a few weeks.
Mealworms can be bred easily. Send an email directly to me if you want directions on how to do this. I also have some pictures of my bluebirds enjoying worms in my makeshift feeder, if anyone is interested.

Linda, an exposed saucer works very well - unless you happen to have Starlings, Blue Jays, Robins, Mockingbirds, Crows or any other large birds. Unless a person has an unlimited mealworm budget (and I applaud anyone who does) it is worthwhile investing in a dedicated "starling-proof" feeder that will exclude those large bully birds. In fact, even if you grow your own mealworms (not all of us have the time, space, patience, stomach, or trouble-free sinuses necessary to do so) it would be worthwhile to give the Bluebirds and smaller songbirds their own feeder, as the larger birds will bully the smaller Bluebirds and hog all the mealworms.

There are various kinds of starling proof feeders on the market. I happen to like the one I sell - otherwise I wouldn't be selling it. But something that excludes the big, bully birds isn't being "fancy" - it's just being practical.

Cher

Cher:
You are absolutely correct. Luckily, I live in a rural area surrounded by
deciduous forest and none of the birds you mentioned come around often
enough to beat the BB to the saucer.

Linda, thanks for your response. You are fortunate indeed. See - this is
just another example of what I mean when I say (quite frequently, in
fact) - "There's no such thing in Bluebirding as a one-size-fits-all
answer." [:-)

Cher

From: Mary Clare [mailto:maryclare"at"cox.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 12:44 AM
Subject: Shelf liife of mealworms

I order mealworms from a local supplier, so I get them quickly.

Generally speaking, how long will mealworms last if kept refrigerated in oat bran?

Thanks-

-Mary Clare
Escondido, CA

Mary Clare,

I get 5,000 at a time from a local supplier. She gives them to me in a shallow tupperware container with holes in the lid in just a little meal of some sort - I can't really tell what it is, I'll have to ask her.

I keep them in the fridge, in a loosely closed plastic grocery bag so nothing can spill onto the container and get inside. I don't want to talk about the time the OJ spilled in the fridge, and my family thought I'd gone completely 'round the bend when they found me busily rinsing and blow-drying mealworms . . .["Ok, this one's dry enough now . . . next?"]

Anyway, at the rate I feed them, 5,000 lasts almost a month during this pre-fledging time of year. I just take them out once a week, throw in a carrot or piece of apple and leave on the counter for 24 hours, then remove the food and re-refrigerate.

Toward the end of the cycle they can begin to get rather gamey. Last night I did some "sifting" by turning the container upside down and sifting out the frass through the lid. I'd never tried that before, but it worked quite well. Then I added a little more bedding and re-refrigerated. They're a bit fresher-smelling now.

Cher

Cher,
I keep mine in a smal aquarium in my home office and they reproduce readily.
I use corn meal as a medium, and add 3 slices of apple every Saturday. My colony is three years old now and I always have plenty of mealies for the blues. NO UPKEEP is required other than I mentioned.
Phil Berry

Hi everyone,
I'm new to the list and am trying to see what I could do to help the bluebirds. Mine is an interesting connection. I was undergoing a reiki (energy work) session and was instructed by my reiki practitioner to see if i could see images in my mind. I saw this little blue bird with a red orange breast (I did not know what a bluebird looked like then). I soon forgot about it until 3 months later as my husband and I were figuring out how to keep the squirrel out of the bird feeder when out of nowhwere a little bird perched on our fence. I excitedly told my husband that this was the bird from my reiki session. The bird sat there for a while and my neighbor hollered to his daughter that there is a "bluebird" perched on the fence. So I did my research on it and was sad that it did not like seeds so it will not visit my bird feeder. I read somewhere that if you whistle they will come so yesterday I had some roasted mealworms...can't try the real wiggly ones yet. I set the ceramic bowl on the deck and whistled. After 3 minutes a bluebird came flying by but zipped pass me :( . I ran in to get the binoculars and saw the bluebird perched up on a dead tree for a few minutes and then disappeared. I guess it did not like my roasted mealworm offerings either (double sigh) .
Anyway my question is should I put a bluebird feeder first and see if they come to that? I was thinking of using the bluebird banquet mix and the bluebird diner . If i do get bluebirds to come to that

then I plan to use the gilbertson bluebird house .And if that is successful then I guess I need to get a small refrigerator to keep my live mealworms :) . I do live in the suburbs so my backyard is not that big and the most I could put is one birdhouse. ..

Veronica

From: EPuddinTang"at"aol.com [mailto:EPuddinTang"at"aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: A new bluebird lover

Hi Veronica,
Welcome to the fantastic world of bluebirds!!
This is my second year of bluebirding myself, I am also one of the lucky ones.
I saw my first bluebird last spring. I immediately did research and built my own nesting box, mounted it in the middle of my backyard, facing east and added in a birdbath to my garden.
I was very pleased to find two bb checking it out a week after that. Before I knew it, they began setting up house and they had two hatchlings fledge the first year.
I began buying them mealworms from the local petsmart, I also found a feeder for them they seem to like. It's a regular seed feeder with the plexiglas sides, I got it for half price because it was missing a plexiglas window. I just took out the other side as well. I hot glued a plastic dish to the bottom. I put the live mealworms in that. When I go to feed them, I have a bell I ring, soon after they come and eat the fresh worms.
I apply petroleum jelly to all the feeder poles as well as the pole my bb box is mounted on, that seems to deter the squirrels and other predators as well.
The BB's returned this year, they had 5 eggs the first time, all have fledged. They have 2 more eggs mama has lain so far.
I have since began ordering the mealworms from a couple places online.

Mealworm department

Welcome to Sunshine Mealworms

I tried raising them myself but didn't have any luck with it, it was such a mess and didn't help my asthma.
Good luck and be blessed by the bluebirds of happiness. They have blessed my life.
E. Hebert
LC, La.

Welcome to the list Veronica and welcome to the life long learning experience of blue birding. Just when ya think ya got it figured out, nature fools ya. Have fun.
Jay K. Brindo
Northeastern, Ohio

I have grackles and cowbirds swarming my bird feeder.Would this deter bluebirds from coming to my yard ? I have the yankee flipper to deter the squirrels, now I'm considering dumping that and getting another one that would just allow smaller birds in. Also should I keep the bluebird feeder far away from my regular seed feeders or can I keep them in the same area.

Veronica
Richmond,Va

I have a big flock of cowbirds and so far I haven't had any trouble with
them. They don't bother my BB's.

Dottie, Hickory Hollow
Brown County, Indiana

I'm new at this. I've been watching the posts for the last 3 months.
I have a new box, and a couple have moved in. I've "named" them Iris
(female) and Periwinkle(male). I have 5 eggs and I'm waiting for
them to hatch. I put out meal worms each morning for them; they seem to eat them up right away. I put out maybe 15. It looks like they may be taking them into the nest box. Do they store them for the babies?? Or are they eating them all up right away? Shall I only give them a few in the mornings? Thanks for all your insights into this and everything else. It's great fun!

ah! Iris is drinking from the bird bath as I type!! Exciting! :) She must be thirsty after all those mealworms! ;)

Pamela
Waxhaw (south of Charlotte), North Carolina

Pam,

I am new to this also. One thing that I notice is dad takes worms back to mom who is in the house. Even my bluenut mealworm feeder a lot of times mom does not go in it but dad brings worms out to her and feeds her. I put worms out morning and night and my local ones feed off them and I have a pair from a ways away they come around and feed also. I don't know where the other pair is nesting but only the dad comes around.

Steve Murphy
Rochester, MN

Pamela, et al,
I no longer feed mealworms, but when I did I put out about 20 or so at a time. I have never owned a "mealworm feeder." I just use small Corningware glass dessert dishes, and put them in different places. I
*never* put them anywhere near my nestboxes because they can attract unwanted critters, - predators, competitors, etc. The railings on decks are good places for the dishes. I also made some wooden stakes about 6' tall with sockets for the dishes on top. They worked well. The worms can't seem to crawl out of the dishes because of their slick, shiny sides.
In my opinion, mealworm feeding is not necessary for the birds, though it certainly is entertaining for the Bluebirder, and it makes for good photo-ops.
Sometimes, back when I was feeding mealworms to Bluebirds, I would find intact, live , uneaten mealworms in the nest with the baby birds, who paid no attention to them.
I noticed that sometimes the adults feed the worms to the young, and sometimes they eat them themselves. It must depend on how hungry they are. The ones they fed to the young were usually battered to a pulp before they were fed.

Bruce Burdett SW NH

I also use a corningware dish about 2" high. My husband made me a stand
for my dish about 10' from the nest box by my house. It works great!

Dottie, Hickory Hollow
Brown County, Indiana

Trish - Frankston, TX (east Texas)

Hi Pamela! I feed mealworms to my blues twice a day, early morning and early evening, once the sun has almost set and it's not so hot anymore.
(Rain and sunshine will kill the mealworms). I put them in a glass dish in a mealworm feeder with one plexiglass side removed as the blues won't go inside otherwise. I put out probably 50-60 at a time, sometimes more. The blues watch for me....and I whistle when I walk toward the feeder, so they are used to my signal that it's time for a treat. I guess it depends on how many blues you are feeding as to how many you put out. Sometimes there will be 5-6 blues at a time eating, plus the parents feeding babies nearby. I think I read that Mama and/or Daddy BB have to chew up the worms initially to feed to the babies. I never have a problem with predators or even other larger birds at mealworm feeding time. My blues are so used to the routine, they generally chase away any other birds, especially if they have babies to feed....and the worms don't last long enough to worry about four legged predators. Occasionally, I will see a chickadee or titmouse go to the feeder and share in the mealworms, if the blues are away for a minute or two....and that's great.
It may not be necessary to put out mealworms for the blues, but it brings both them and me so much joy and allows them to stay closer to the nest and still feed the babies. My mealworm feeder is pretty close to one of my nest boxes, which I think attracted my first BB pair to nest there. I've never had a problem and, next week, the second group of babies will fledge from there. Sometimes, they choose the nest box at the other end of the yard, but they always prefer that mealworm feeder.

From: Jill & Eric [mailto:geminix2"at"tds.net]
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 12:21 AM
Subject: mealworm questions from a newbie

Greetings Fellow Bluebird Lovers!

This newbie has questions regarding feeding mealworms to bluebirds. Can we feed them too many? How often should we put mealworms out? How many (approximately) should we feed the parents before the eggs hatch? Approximately how many should we feed when there are nestlings? Do we increase the number fed as the young are getting bigger? Should we continue putting mealworms out once they fledge, or will that interfere with the parents teaching them to hunt?

We have a tray feeder that we set on the ground. The bluebirds have eggs (2 at last count) in a 2nd brood. I've been putting mealworms out twice a day, so far. When they had nestlings in their 1st brood (which they lost, due to bad weather we think), I was putting mealworms out 3 times a day.

Thanks in advance for any help you may provide!

Best Regards,
Jill & family
Bainbridge, IN

I've been putting mealworms out where I have seen the bluebird perch. For three days, the poor worms just died and turned black so I changed them all the time.
Then last night after I put fresh ones out I saw this greyish bird with a white belly look into the mealworm cups and picked up some worms. At this point I'm even glad that a bird found the mealworms. This morning they were all gone ! So I put fresh ones out again. I have not even gone in the house and the same bird flew down and started picking at them. I think he eats three at a time and flies away ...

I am eventually going to get the mealworm feeder that prevents bigger birds from getting in but right now I just want the mealworms in plain site. Am I perching it too high I wonder? My mealworm feeder is dangling from a six foot pole. Also what other birds compete with bluebirds for mealworms ?

Mealworms die quickly in direct sun. Put them under the canopy of a shady
tree.

Common birds that snitch mealworms in my area:
Western Scrub Jays
Mockingbirds
Wrens
California Towhee
Western Bluebirds
Phoebe

Linda Violett
Yorba Linda, Calif.

If you're training the Blues to find mealworms, you'd probably be more
successful starting off with the dish either on the ground, or on a low
table, in plain sight of where the birds usually sit to hunt/groom.
They're more likely to see them there. Then you can gradually make the
move to a mealworm feeder. See the steps I took to train my new couple
to come to my feeder here:

http://p202.ezboard.com/fbluebirdnutcafefrm18.showMessage?topicID=378.topic

As for your grey bird with white belly - Titmouse? Nuthatch?
Mockingbird? Catbird?

Try this online identification guide - it's really neat!

http://www.bdi.org/Birdkey/BirdFrameset.cfm

Cher

>From all the helpful emails I got I think my grayish
bird is a mocking bird , although judging from the photo at Dornell it does not look that harsh but has a softer face...maybe a female (Don't know if there is a
difference) . Anyway I think I saw a chickadee also hanging upside down from where I hung the feeder peering at the mealies...so cute... now if only the bb would show up... I would be the happiest person on the planet... :). I am also going to setup a ceramic bowl close to the ground where it does not get too much sun , it might need to be a bit elevated so when my little dog goes potty he would leave it alone...
also I've got to think about sprinklers coming on. Oh boy... I didn't realize how complicated it is to set out a mealworm feeder ;) .
My husband think I am obsessed but whether he admits it or not he also enjoys the beautiful birds that are now visiting our yard.

> A problem has arisen, in the form of the scrub jay. In the winter he would come
> to the place where I fed banquet to the bluebird, and now he is taking the
> mealworms. The bluebird came as soon as I put them out, but the jay was right
> behind her and he actually chased her to the nestbox! Now what? Do I stop
> feeding her so that the jay won't harrass her, and let her take her chances
> feeding the chicks?
>
> I fed her on my porch, where she and her mate roosted all day, thinking the jay
> wouldn't be so bold as to come this close to the house. Wrong! I put the
> mealworms on the table where I used to put the banquet, since it is in the
> shade, and she flew right to them. The jay doesn't want to share, at all.
>
> Decisions!
>
> Barbara in Cloverdale, CA

Malinda Mastako
SE Michigan

Barbara-- it is very hard for a single adult to brood and hunt for food without the help of a mate from such an early stage in the nesting.. I sure hope your weather is good. At this age, they will still need brooding. In addition to the mealworms you say are on the way, many suppliers will also sell waxworms, or you can get them from fishing bait shops. They are another good supplemental food to help out in the tough situation you are in, with such a long time left to go before fledging. You may want to contact a local wildlife rehabilitator in your area. It is good to get any additional advice they may offer, as well as to develop a relationship with that person in case something should happen to the remaining parent. Your single mother will have to take some chances that she might not otherwise, due to the need to find all the food for the entire brood on her own. These risks can sometimes put her in harms way from a cat or other predator. Our rehabber advises coating the mealworms in calcium powder, and feeding them high protein dog or cat food for a few days before putting them out. Finally, (if you aren't blown away by all this, yet) the same suppliers who distribute mealworms and waxworms will also sell small crickets. They are another alternative food source that can really help out in a pinch like this.

I have lost an adult during nesting season a few times. Until I started offering mealworms, the maximum number a single parent could fledge was usually three. Now, when this situation arises, I offer mealworms, waxworms and crickets coated in calcium powder provided by my rehabber. Most young make it to flege now. I have even had single moms with newly fledged previous broods who have managed just fine to keep everyone alive. The bluebirds prefer the waxworms, then the crickets, then their final choice is the mealworms.

I will be crossing my fingers up here in Michigan for your little single mama! Please let us know how she fares.

Malinda Mastako
SE Michigan

I saw Wren on one of the other replies, but more specifically, I originally started putting mealworms out for the Carolina Wrens as an experiment (have some cute pictures of them eating them) because I read they liked grubs and small insects. Sure enough, they were always first in the feeder and first to notify me if the feeder was empty. The Yellow-rumped Warblers also ate a lot of them as well. I stopped putting them out when the #$%"at" Starlings would be in the feeder before I was even back in the house. (I swear I am going to start shooting them--they are harassing my nest of Flickers to no
end!!)

Susan Wenzel, Virginia Beach, VA

My attempts to help the single parent have resulted in disaster. The meal worms I offered attracted a scrub jay, and he kept chasing the female BB, once following her to the nestbox and sticking his head in.

A little while ago I heard her chirping incessantly. She was perched on the porch roof with an insect in her beak but didn't go into the nestbox. My husband got out the ladder and looked in, and he said it looks like there is only one chick left and he wasn't sure it was alive.

I suspect the jay has taken the hatchlings. This is the first time I've had anything like this happen. The nestbox is the deepest one I could find -- a chalet style, and it has a wooden predator guard on the front. I know the chicks will stretch up to be fed, which makes it easier for a predatory bird to reach them.

Now I'll watch to see if the female will go into the box, and I'll try to keep the jay away. Later I'll check the nest myself and see how much damage is done, although I don't know what to do about it now. Looks like the meal worms were not a good idea after all. I did put cat food out for the jay, but he wasn't interested in it since he knew the mealworms were available, and the chicks.

Bad day.

Barbara in Cloverdale, CA

Barbara, invest in a good mealworm feeder from Wild Birds Unlimited. We have two kind, a plexiglass dinner bell that has a dome that can be lowered over the tray to keep big birds out. The other kind is a wood and plexiglass housing with holes on the end. My EABL love both types, and it keeps out jays, mockers, robins, starlings, etc.

Trudy Pischer
Willard, MO

Oh, Barbara, I'm sorry about the jay getting your bluebirds. I know a lot of people feed mealworms but I have never dared, and my bluebirds do just fine. With the exception of a hummingbird feeder and a finch-bag of thistle seed I hang temporarily, I've almost always had predator problems with
feeders. In my case, I call them "hawk feeders."

Autumn in Kentucky

Paul Kilduff
trail at Oregon Ridge Park, Cockeysville (Baltimore County) MD

First, Barbara, I'm sorry for your loss! What an incredibly maddening and saddening thing to have happen! Bad day, indeed.

I think you're still not sure the jay actually did the damage....

Linda, I like your name "face guard" for the hole extender. I note that Barbara says the box has a wooden predator guard on the front. Barbara, is that the same as a face guard? How thick is it? I like mine to be 1-1/2" thick ("2x4"). Combined with the thickness of the wood that seems to make enough of a tunnel that large birds like EUST and jays and MOBI can't reach in, at least as far as I know. It may be that I'm stuck in the past, but I wonder if maybe a thicker face guard might not be just as effective as a deeper box, and a lot easier to accomplish. If Barbara's box is a Springer Chalet, I think he does specify 2x4 for the face guard.

I don't like lowering the nest because I think the birds know better than I how high they need the nest to be. However, I do want to keep larger birds from being able to reach in, and I *believe* the 2x4 face guards are doing that.

(By the way, following Linda's urging larger floor sizes, I have been making my boxes with a combination of 1x6 for the front and back and 1x8 for the sides and floor lately, making the boxes open from the front for cleaning i/o one side, and giving me a 33 sq in floor, if not mistaken. I like the idea of letting them stretch their wings -- it makes sense to me and I've been making my new boxes accordingly.)

Barbara, as I say, I don't know exactly what you have on the front of your box - would a 1-1/2" thick face guard solve your problem, assuming it is the jay which took the nestlings? If you do have a face guard made from 2x4, do you think it's possible that a a scrub jay (we don't have scrub jays here but it seems to be a big bird) was able to reach in past 2-1/4" of wood to get to the babies? What do others think?

As far as feeding mewo is concerned, I make mewo feeders out of scrap wood and plastic hardware cloth -- just a top and a bottom and two sides with 1-9/16" holes in them and two sides with the plastic hardware cloth - I swivel the top. Although House Finches have taken to nesting in them, so I may need to switch to something else. We usually don't put the feeders close to nestboxes, and introduce the mewo by putting some in a dish (plastic soda bottle bottom) on top and more mewo in a dish inside the feeder. Once both dishes are empty I know something small enough to get in the hole is taking them and then I take the dish off the roof and load only the inside dish. This works pretty well, although this technique (which I read about on this list) would not have helped in your particular case. Putting the mealworms farther away from the nestbox might have...?

Paul in Baltimore

I saw Wren on one of the other replies, but more specifically, I originally
started putting mealworms out for the Carolina Wrens as an experiment (have
some cute pictures of them eating them) because I read they liked grubs and
small insects. Sure enough, they were always first in the feeder and first
to notify me if the feeder was empty. The Yellow-rumped Warblers also ate a
lot of them as well. I stopped putting them out when the #$%"at" Starlings
would be in the feeder before I was even back in the house. (I swear I am
going to start shooting them--they are harassing my nest of Flickers to no
end!!)

Susan Wenzel, Virginia Beach, VA

Trudy has hit the nail on the head here I think. As I've found over the years, the best way to deter unwanted wildlife from entering my yard is to not feed them. A good mealworm feeder allows EABL and smaller birds to feed, but denies access to larger birds which can be a nuisance to nesting EABL (such as mockingbirds) or be dangerous predators (i.e jays).

Barbara's unfortunate jay attack could have happened regardless, but denying the jay access to the mealworms initially could possibly have prevented his discovering the nest. I think it is important to remember that unfortunate incidents happen with nesting birds in the wild all the time. As bluebirders, we try to help where we can.

My favorite mealworm feeder has 1.5" plastic coated wire mesh sides. The ends are solid wood, but I have drilled a 1.5" entry hole in each end. The beauty of this feeder is that the EABL and other smaller birds have two easy ways to access the feeder. They are familiar with the holes so usually enter this way, but can easily pop out the sides through the mesh if they get frightened. The mesh eliminates any problems with birds getting panicked and trapped in plexiglass feeders. I think plexiglass feeders are still a good choice, but I like the mesh better for this reason. To keep food in the center of the feeder, the feeder comes with a little can that is velcroed to the center of the floor. I have removed the can and use a rectangular Rubbermaid desk organizer that I velcro to the floor. It makes a nice feeding trough, can be easily removed for filling and washing, and it can hold a lot of Bluebird Banquet in the colder fall/winter months. I had a devil of a time finding the feeder online (used to be sold by Evergreen), but here is the link to it if anyone is interested - again works best with holes drilled on sides: http://www.anythingbluebirds.com/bd00227.html

Paula Z
Powell (Central) Ohio

I was wondering what was eating my mealy worms.
Nothing happens to it during the day . It is on the
ground in front of a fence where I have seen a
bluebird perch. Over night though it is all gone. Now
the only thing I have seen around is a frog.

Veronica
Richmond,VA

Veronica,

Yes, frogs will eat mealworms if they are moving a round.
When my kids had pet frogs they would eat mealyworms.

Maynard Sumner
Flint, MI

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
Don't forget that mice, rats, skunks ETC. will eat a free meal of insects.
Fox and raccoons enjoy June bugs and other insects, even cats will eat
insects.

Well, I've withheld the mealworms for several days now and thought my mocking bird has decided to go elsewhere. So I put out this caged mealworm feeder to see if I get any kind of bird to get curious enough about it like that chickadee that the mocker chased away. This morning as I opened the blinds to the doors to my deck , I saw a mocker land on my herb box sitting on the deck rail next to the door and its probably my imagination but I though he gave me a searing look before setting off and started dive bombing the birds at the seed birdfeeders. Hopefully, it's just frustration on his part for not being able to get to the mealies in the caged feeder and he would eventually go elsewhere. He better not dive bomb me when I go out in the backyard....

Well, that's one of the reasons why I imagine they were given their
name. Are you sure it wasn't a mocking look? I've had to move several
Bluebird boxes away from Mockingbird territory, but I still love them.
The only bird in my yard they won't mess with is the Brown Thrasher.

Rob Barron

I have seen and heard (and read) all of these horror stories but have yet to see any of the described behaviors. I have two Mockingbird pairs - who don't seem to bother anyone except the HOSP and occasional crow (in fact one pair's young just fledged). My Thrasher pair - everyone warned me how territorial they are - are a delight. I am looking forward to seeing their young. (I have a hysterical picture of an adult sunbathing if anyone is
interested) Mom is apparently off the nest now - the two have been extremely busy gathering insects. Feeding the brood, I presume. I wonder why behaviors are so different from bird to bird. Good luck with yours...maybe things will calm down after his family has moved on.

Susan Wenzel, Virginia Beach, VA

From: Donna [mailto:spraydm"at"earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 2:38 PM
Subject: clutch #2 should start soon

As soon as I got back to town I checked the bird situation. It looks like the Bluebirds have all but finished their second nest, still adding pine needles several times a day. There's already a nice cup and the nest is pretty darn high. They are well conditioned to come to the feeder for worms now. I can't believe how the female initially rebuffed the worms, because she sure waits impatiently for them now!

It has been three weeks since the fledging. The babies don't come to the feeder, and I suppose they won't. I think that about three male babies still follow the parents around some of the time, and I saw one of them sidle up to Mom on a pine branch while she was hunting for nesting material and open his beak. She ignored him, but sometimes I'll still see her take a few worms to one of them. I've seen the babies playing, chasing each other and hunting for their own insects. One stayed on the ground in the open several minutes yesterday, which seems risky, but he eventually flew back to the trees. The adults never stay in the open - they fly down, get the insect, and fly back to the safety of the trees.

....

Donna

Well, I never thought I would write anything close to this email, but here I am. We have a bluebird who is a pest! In our area of New York State, we do not have a high concentration of bluebirds, so to say that we have a pest, seems strange. It all started about a week and a half ago. Our neighbor had a pair in his nestbox abut 70 feet from our back door. I began enticing the adults with mealworms about a week prior to when the problem began. However, red-winged blackbirds kept getting into any open dish of worms I left out. My intention was to move the mealworms in the open dish closer and closer to the Jenna Bird mealworm feeder. (This is a feeder made of wood with a roof, solid sides, except for a ! 1/2" hole, and vertical bars spaced 1 1/2" apart on the long sides.) The feeder is located about 10' from our patio doors. Since it became obvious that the blackbirds would win at my game, after a few days I decided to just put the mealworms in a custard cup in the feeder. It took a few more days, but Mama Bluebird found the worms a week ago this past Thursday. By noon, Daddy Blue was fully aware of them and consuming them. This would be 6 days from fledging. By late afternoon, Daddy was sitting on the saucer shaped hummingbird feeder which hangs from a gutter above the patio doors. When that didn't work for more worms, he clung to the screen that covers one side of the door. This continued on Friday and by Friday evening, even though I was putting out worms very frequently, he was throwing himself against the patio door. By weekend he calmed down and was quite gentlemanly with regard to his behavior, and he continued like that through fledging. Now the chicks are in a tree across our street, and both parents are frequenting the mealworm feeder on a regular basis. He began his demanding behavior again yesterday. He's on the hummingbird feeder, clings to the screen and slaps his wing on the glass door and nearby window. I can stand within 6 feet of him and he will feed from the feeder. Mama is more cautious, but if he is there to protect her, she will feed.
It is wonderful to have them feeding from the feeder and be able to take some wonderful pictures, but I am afraid he is going to hurt himself. If I try to cut back on the worms, he becomes more assertive. I do close the patio blinds when we are not using the door. That does cut down on his wing whips on the glass. I had a neighbor 3 doors down and across the street call me this morning and report they have bluebirds in their yard. I am assuming they are the same pair. She said he flew against their window.
Did you ever see or hear of a pest of a bluebird? Smile, smile.
By the way, he is sure entertaining our indoor cat. She is getting no rest as she tries to follow him from door to window and back!
Judy Derry
Lockport NY
Western New York State

From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net]
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 5:23 PM
Subject: Re: Pest of a Bluebird

Judy,
It has been mentioned before on this List that birds, including Bluebirds, sometimes go a little wacko and start banging on windows, screens, doors, etc. Try putting out a dummy plastic owl. That has worked for me. Some folks have put pictures of big owls or hawks on the window-glass.
Maybe if the young have fledged the gene pool doesn't need this behavior trait to be passed on.
My guess is that he'll get over it.

Bruce Burdett SW NH

Denise,

I had a similar problem with a male bluebird this season. He would wake us in the morning, hitting the bedroom window. He was also doing the same thing to our neighbors, one house further up the street.

He would repeat this behavior several times a day, even though I put a hawk silhouette on the window where he would attack. I wasn't feeding mealworms, either!

Unfortunately, he vanished the day the four eggs in his nest hatched, and his mate has been overworked ever since. My neighbor reported he wasn't coming to his window anymore either.

I wish he'd come back, and I'd promise not to complain about being wakened every day at dawn. I know he's gone for good, and I sure do miss him.

Barbara in Cloverdale, CA

Bruce: I think he is just smart! He knows where the worms are coming from and he is going to do whatever he can to try to get more. He sure is an attention getter. He is extremely protective of his mate and always allows her to eat and gather the worms for the fledglings first before he eats.
I do have a silhouette of a raptor on my window - neither that nor the cat on just the other side of the screen from him seem to deter him. I'll try the plastic owl if he doesn't cease soon. They say a bluebird's cognitive ability is about that of a 3 1/2 year old - maybe this one's is a little higher - maybe acting more like a teenager that isn't getting his/her way!

Judy Derry
Lockport, NY

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas a cool 68*F overnight heading to upper 90's today it was still 81*F last night at 11 PM this is hot enough to incubate the eggs abnormally/slowly for about 12 hours a day whether the female is on the nest or not.

In just the last 10 years or so more nestbox land lords are believing that feeding mealworms to the bluebirds in their yards is part of bluebirding.

Scanning the last few days messages we have Judy's bluebirds that not only associate her with free mealworms she also reports that they associate other humans (her neighbor) as a potential donor to the feeding of the baby bluebirds. Not all humans want a bird flying up to them or their children for fear of the diseases they carry or because they will soil their clean windows.

Steve wants to stay home and help feed the new born chicks (they don't eat much the first few days and they need tiny, soft bodied insects as their digestive system is still forming and hardening.) Spiders would be a better diet the first few days instead of beetle larva.

I got an e-mail from a long time bluebirder a couple of days ago who lost their female bluebird to disease and she began giving the male bluebird all the mealworms he could feed his young since the male lost interest in his young, picked up another female and was splitting his time between his new mate, a new nest across the street, breeding and only dropping a few mealworms to his starving young.

It seemed that the only food he carried to his young were mealworms. He was not carrying away fecal sacks and seldom carried food. Anyway after 25 days in the nest YES 25 days the young were fully feathered but not able to fly after eating a skimpy diet of meal worms. She removed the young from the box and placed them on the ground since they could not fly to force the male/father to take care of the fledglings...They could not even hop away across the yard from the nestbox pole let alone hang onto tree limbs or escape from predators.

As young birds get closer to fledging they OFTEN will reject an insect that the parents bring to them and these insects end up in the nest. OFTEN once they are about to fledge they will spit out an insect they don't like. In this nest at 25 days there were more than 60+ mealworms crawling around that the young, starving baby birds had spit out. There is no way to know how many of these mealworms had already crawled out of the nestbox or fell out of drain holes.

Maybe the male got discouraged at the babies NOT WANTING to eat what he was bringing! MAYBE the young birds were not getting all of the vitamins and amino acids and minerals that they needed from mealworms. If your mealworms are eating diet or type of grain deficient in vitamins and minerals they will also be deficient in their bodies.

One day in a baby bluebirds life is equal to one years growth in a human baby. Baby birds need different vitamins and minerals at different stages of growth just as baby humans. What would happen to a human if say at four years of age their parents only fed them chicken nuggets and water for about seven years?

Again this is an extreme case of malnutrition I believe brought on by a male bird that went over board feeding from a fast food restaurant. Puppies get rickets and end up with bent bones as I recall from an incorrect diet.
Humans can have a diet problem and end up with a weak line in rapidly growing fingernails. Big deal! So all your nails break off in a week! They will grow longer in a couple of days BUT what about a weak line in the middle of a baby birds feathers!

Just a DAY or two of a severe shortage in essential vitamins and minerals would show up in feather and bone development.

There is research being done in Canada at this time on baby bluebirds to check the vitamins and minerals being fed to them and then checking the baby birds blood and their feathers to see how diet affects their growth.

Hang a bare light bulb over a five gallon bucket tonight and capture a wide assortment of insects. Freeze them and place them in a bowl next to your mealworms and see if your adult birds will pick an assortment of insects out of these night flying insects to eat or feed their young.

Each species of insect feeds on different species of plants or animal tissue and each one will contain different amounts of various vitamins and minerals. This is WHY humans are supposed to eat so many different food groups.

There is a difference between giving out 5 or 10 mealworms a couple of times a day to adult birds and their young who have already fledged and giving them an "all you can eat" one item buffet when the baby birds are rapidly developing nerve, bone, tissue and feathers. It may NOT be healthy for the young birds to be fed only mealworms exclusively even for 3 or 4 days. Maybe this diet research in Canada will be completed and published in a year or so and shed more information on this topic. KK

What a great post, Keith!

I found that my backyard pairs love to eat raisins all year round. I stopped feeding them during nesting season because when the babies fledged, I saw that they were coming to the feeder as fast as they could and seemed to be feeding them exclusively. There are plenty insects here in my yard and it is huge. When I stopped it, they got the insects, which I think is much better for them at this time of year.

I only feed in winter when I feel supplemental feeding is o.k.

Others feed year round, but should do it with limitations.

Evelyn

Keith,

Good points and I agree wholeheartly. But I do want to clarify me staying home. This is my first year so I tend to be more excited about everything.
And me wanting to stay home was more a laugh than anything. I think I even put (LOL) in some of my statements. So far even saying I have to convince my wife in staying home to date we have not.

I fed at first to get the bluebirds to stay. I don't feed them much. I put out ten in the moring and ten in the evening if I am around. They did fine without me before and they will do fine now. The ten that I put out morning and night is feeding two families. And I tend to slow down even more after the babies are a few more days old. But as I grow my trail I will continue to feed three or four times a week. I love seeing them come up to the deck and eat. I also know that if I continue to feed them too much come winter they just may stay longer than they should.

So again I agree with your letter.

Steve Murphy

Steve,

You write "I also know that if I continue to feed them too much come winter they just may stay longer than they should".

If you are talking about them not migrating on time, I don't think that can happen. The birds will migrate according to the amount of daylight and temperature if I am not mistaken. So putting out meal worms until they are gone should be perfectly fine.

Denise
Parkville, MD

Hi Denise,

Now you've gotten my curiosity peaked. It seems that more EABBs are over wintering in Wisconsin than in the past. One lady that lives within 15 miles from me told me that she never had them stay, but last winter they stayed the whole winter. Then I talked to the owner of the local wild bird store who told me that many customers told her that this past winter they had them stay in their yards. I thought it was because of the warmer winters we are experiencing here, but how does that work if it is based on the amount of light too? Anyone else?

Thanks!

Shari Kastner
New Berlin, WI

Shari et al,

From what I've read on this List and elsewhere, Bluebirds don't "migrate" in the classic sense. They're short-distance migrators, will go only as far as necessary to escape the worst weather. The winter of '03-'04, the Bluebirds that nested in my backyard habitat here in Central NY State stayed the whole winter, the whole family of them - adults, first and second nesting young - coming for mealworms and suet mix once or twice a day, and to drink from my heated birdbath. The rest of the day, they were off hiding somewhere in the bushes out back, presumably eating the berries that grow wild in the hedgerow. On particularly nasty days, they might come begging more than once a day.
And a few times, when it got really, really cold, they disappeared for a few days at a stretch. They probably mini-migrated until the worst of the weather system had passed, then came back.

Come spring, the adults chased off the young, and nested again in my nestboxes. That following winter, '04-'05, they all left in September-October, as they had done in prior years, although I did everything precisely the same as I'd done the previous fall. Same mealworms, same feeding schedule, same suet mix, same heated birdbath.
Presumably, the hours of light and dark were the same that year, too. [;-)

The only thing predictable about these beautiful birds is their unpredictability.

Cher

I can see I'm going to have to revise what I usually tell people who are worried about feeding too many mealworms - which is that the birds know what's best and won't consume or feed their young more than is good for them.

While that may be generally true, it's evident from what Keith says here that under extreme circumstances some Bluebirds will resort to unbalanced feeding. But since most of us can't afford to feed *that* many mealworms, it's probably fairly uncommon. [:-) I give a good teaspoonful twice a day, combined with some nutritious suet mix. I might bump that up in times of unseasonably miserable weather, like we had over the weekend here in CNY. Otherwise, I don't let the birds bully me into giving them more.

I like your light bulb and bucket suggestion, Keith. Was it made in jest, or have you actually tried it?

Cher

Cindy - yes, conventional wisdom so far is to take the sparrow spooker off after babies have
fledged, the thinking being that it may scare off birds that are not "committed" to the nestbox
(with eggs or babies) plus you don't want HOSP to get accustomed to it. If you get another nesting,
up it goes on the first egg.

I'm very sorry to hear about the fledgling. They are so vulnerable at that stage. Apparently cats,
raccoons and owls tend to leave wings behind (as in the cardinal). As for the untouched fledgling,
of course cats will kill and not always eat their prey, especially a well-fed house cat.

Re Rob's comments on mealworms. I started feeding mealworms several years ago because I wanted
bluebirds nesting in my yard (and got them almost immediately.) I ran out of mealworms during a
cold rainy period and an entire batch of bluebird nestlings died - the first losses I'd ever had. So
I continue to offer them, ESPECIALLY during bad weather, but in limited quantities (max 10/15 per
bird, 1 or 2 times a day.) When there are lots of bugs around, fewer get eaten so I figure they
kind of self-regulate.

The only trend I've seen is no dead bluebirds, all babies fledging, larger clutches (6 eggers) and
multiple broods seem more likely for bluebirds fed mealworms, but I haven't done any scientific
analysis on it! Maybe I'm just trying to rationalize spending so much on the worms.... :-)

Keith has written about mealworms being calcium-depleting, and perhaps impacting the flying ability
of fledglings fed too many mealworms. To counter this, I put mealworms in bedding that contains a
3:1 ratio of wheat bran or chick mash: powdered milk. Some folks dredge mealworms with vitamins etc.
- see recipe here http://www.sialis.org/feeder.htm#cal

I know some folks don't approve of feeding mealworms or don't think it is necessary, or see it as
interfering with natural processes. I figure introducing HOSP and putting up nestboxes and
developing out open space fall in the same category.

Bet from CT

Continued at Bluebird Feeding - Mealworms (Part 5)

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