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Bluebird Eggs (Part 4)In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website: Predators and Problems On The Bluebird Trail From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas http://www.birds.cornell.edu/birdhouse/news/temp_pilot.html From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com To: The Constituency, The evidence, - circumstantial, anecdotal, and scientific, - seems to suggest that these eggs - and their contents - can tolerate a good deal of 'coldness' for a considerable length of time, and that the hen regulates their 'warmness' as she sees fit. As in many of these matters, the birds seem to know what they're doing and how best to do it. Bruce Burdett, SW NH Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 23:39:06 -0000 On May 1 I had one egg. Three days later there was still one egg. I felt in the nest to see if there were more and I broke the first egg. I was HORRIFIED! I didn't realize the shells were so thin. The strange thing is, when I looked closely, there seemed to be absolutely no sign of development. Could this egg have been sterile? I know that the female will delay incubation until all of the eggs are laid ( 1 per day ) in order for them to hatch at the same time but I thought there would be at least some hint of an embryo present. The weather here has been miserable until just a few days ago. I'm hoping that when the weather gets better that she will start over. I'm also hoping that the TS in the house 30 feet away won't cause her too much trouble. They have a nest but they don't have eggs either. I still see the BB pair perching on the house in the mornings so I haven't given up all hope. Sorry this is so long. I just need to vent my frustration. Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 16:30:54 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA From: "Elaine Whitworth" visionfarm"at"earthlink.net I had chickadees and tufted titmice just beginning to come to my feeder. What do their eggs look like??? Elaine in NW Tn Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 14:27:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Hatch! From: Maynard R Sumner m-r-sumner"at"juno.com The Black-cap Chickadee eggs are oval to shot-oval. shell smooth, very thin, has little or no gloss. White; rather evenly spotted and dotted with reddish brown, concentated at larger end. 5-10, commonly 6-8; av. 15.2 x 12.2 mm. Tufted Titmouse eggs are oval to long-oval. Shell smooth, little or no gloss. White or creamy; evenly speckled with small spots, dots, often concentrated at larger end. 4-8, commonly 5-6; av. 18.4 x 14.1 mm. Maynard Sumner Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 18:38:05 -0400 There remains a single unhatched EABL egg in one of my boxes. The 3 babies are lively and looking well. Should I remove the unhatched egg? The hatch date was Thursday 5/9/02. Also, the BCCH hatched either today (Mother's Day) or yesterday. It's a deep nest and impossible to get an accurate hatch count (7eggs) without pulling it out far enough to get a look. I'd rather not mess with it unless it's advisable to know whether or not all eggs have hatched. ... Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 21:34:00 -0400 Subject: Re: Unhatched EABL egg. From: Maynard R Sumner m-r-sumner"at"juno.com Yes, I would remove the egg. If it has not hatch in four days, I do not think it will hatch. Maynard Sumner Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 13:54:12 -0700 (PDT) I have never seen less than 4 eggs in an EABL clutch until this year. Earlier this year (March 25th to be exact) a first EABL egg was laid on my Illinois trail. The weather was cold and unforgiving. She laid just two more in that clutch. On Saturday May 18th, a first egg appeared in an EABL nest here in Illinois. I checked this afternoon to find only two eggs in the nest. It appears that she has begun the incubation process already. I hear that there were high winds, damaging hail and thunderstorms beginning Sunday afternoon and all morning Monday here. I wonder if she stopped laying eggs because of the bad weather. I did not see
the male this morning as I normally do... maybe he perished in the storms. Just
wondering if anyone else has seen so few eggs in EABL nests before. Bob Sitarski a.k.a The Doctor, Jackson County Indiana ( 385244N 086023W ) & Clay County Illinois ( 384008N 0882908W ) From: "jodyrose" jodyrose"at"bright.net Just wondering if anyone else has seen so few eggs in EABL nests before. Bob Sitarski a.k.a The Doctor, Jackson County Indiana ( 385244N
086023W ) & Clay County Illinois ( 384008N 0882908W ) Bob, and all, I had a nest of 2 eggs also. Never saw that before. At the same time, I had a nest of 4 eggs. The nest of 4 hatched and are doing well. The nest of 2 should have hatched about the same time. But due to weather conditions, I didn't check the box. When I did check, both eggs were gone. No babies, no eggs. The nest looked perfectly fine. I blame house sparrow! The EABL pair are searching for another suitable home. Hopefully will try again. Jody Mt. Gilead, OH (60 miles N. of Columbus) Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 18:53:02 -0700 (PDT) Nest #1: 8 eggs all of which hatched, nestlings doing fine Nest #2: 7 eggs 5 of which hatched: the two unhatched eggs seem to have been removed by one of the adult CACH. They 'disappeared' 4 days after the other 5 hatched. Two eggs were laid followed by two extremely cold nights (low 20's). I originally thought the cold did the eggs in however, Nest #3: 6 eggs laid. One egg hatched a week ago Sunday. The other 5 never hatched. Yesterday, 7 days after the only egg hatched, I inspected the 5 unhatched eggs and determined that they were infertile (a bright light showed no embryo in any off the eggs) Is it unusual to have such a high percentage of infertile eggs?. ....Bob Sitarski a.k.a The Doctor, Jackson County Indiana ( 385244N 086023W ) & Clay County Illinois ( 384008N 0882908W ) From: S83"at"webtv.net (Frederick G. Smith) Eastern Bluebird,that is.I am in my first season of monitoring and I really need guidance from you experienced folks, if you will please. On April 23 I found first egg in nest. Each day one more egg appeared until total of 5 on April 28. The box was not opened again until May 4-- the eggs were warm.Started feeding mealworms and both F and M were active around the box and feeder.As I visited and left mealworms on May 6,7,10,12,13and15, both M and F showed no signs of feeding young even tho I thought the Eggs should have hatched 2 or 3 days earlier. On May 16 I did open box and found 5 unhatched eggs.The F flew from box as I fed mealworms and the M was present and active, too.--- eggs were warm. May 20 same picture. Am I too impatient and/or doing something wrong??? Fred Smith,Jr. From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber) Hi Fred, Once incubation starts it takes about 14days for eggs to hatch. If you have waited 20 days its likely some thingis wrong and eggs are not going to hatch Joe Huber, Venice, Fl. Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber ... Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 19:13:24 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 17:19:40 -0700 (PDT) ... From: "judymellin" judymellin"at"netzero.net I would have to disagree with the responses about nesting dates. I had a completed nest of April 13, three eggs on April 19, four eggs on April 27, five eggs on May 4 and a hatch of all five on May 15. This is the second time in a number of years that we have had greatly spaced-out laying and hatching. So, if you have enough boxes, I say, "Let them be!" Judy Mellin From: "Doug Rohde" d.rohde"at"attbi.com Unless you have an urgent need for the nestbox, my advice would be patience. Each of the last 2 years we've had a "miracle box" on our trail where we had an extended incubation period. In both cases we were so far past normal that we started to remove the nest and then decided to wait ... and were rewarded with EABL babies. Doug Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 15:10:10 -0400 When baby birds hatch, do the parents carry the shell fragments away, or do they eat them? I have never found shell fragments anywhere near any of my nestboxes. Katherine, Weston, MA, kate"at"weichi.com Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 15:54:40 -0700 (PDT) On March 25th a female EABL laid the first of three eggs. One egg was infertile, one little guy couldn't make it out of another egg and the last fledged and continues to hang around Ma and Pa as they are well into their second nesting. Ten days after that now flegling hatched, I removed the two eggs from the nest. In her second nesting, she laid the first of 5 eggs on May 5th. Well, the day I thought the eggs would hatch I checked the box to find out I was a bit early since all 5 eggs were still there. The very next day I checked and found one hatchling and one egg. The day after that, two hatchlings in the nest. I can only speculate that the female Blue knew that those eggs would not hatch and removed them herself. She must not have appreciated my intrusion last time. Just a general note: I hate to make a 'batting average' like stat out of all of this but this year I have had far fewer eggs per nest and fewer birds fledge per egg than in any of my previous 4 years. However, I have twice as many nestboxes and will have from 2 to 10 times as many EABL, CACH and TRES nests respectively this year than any previous year. I hope that the weather improves for all of us. ...Bob Sitarski a.k.a The Doctor, Jackson County Indiana ( 385244N 086023W ) & Clay County Illinois ( 384008N 0882908W ) From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas I need to change my post a little about "most females" not being able to keep a large clutch warm! This is really not true under most normal circumstances as Paul pointed out. The young birds will die of hypothermia during "prolonged" cold wet periods BECAUSE while she can stay for a day or two and keep the young birds plenty warm without feeding them at some point if the male is not bringing in enough food then she also will have to leave the young birds and forage also. If you look at the information being gathered from Cornell with the data loggers, 5 bluebird eggs sitting on a well insulated nest protected with an air bag on one end of the egg, a thin membrane and then a slightly thicker hard shell will lose core temperature VERY rapidly when the air temperature is below the 99* of the optimal incubation temperature. The Tenn. bird and the Texas bird showed two females with the Texas female staying on the nest nearly twice as long as the female from Tenn. even though the outside temperatures were far warmer in Texas. The time away from incubating was around 20 minutes and often longer for both birds. Young birds have a heart that is beating over 120 beats a minute pumping blood into tiny necks, wings and feet that are now "waving in the cold air" if the outside temperature is around 35*F. To give a poor example of heat loss comparing eggs to young birds fix spaghetti and meatballs tonight. Place a helping of boiling spaghetti on your plate and then also a single meatball and a tablespoon of spaghetti noodles on two separate Styrofoam plates or into small Styrofoam cups. Place these inside your refrigerator and enjoy your meal. Set the baking timer for 20 minutes and then take the two test samples out of the fridge and eat them and compare heat loss in these two samples. I believe if we were really to band all of the birds and track each of them we would find that the young birds that are surviving the cold temperatures right next door to ones we are losing you would find that more experienced adult bluebirds have learned how to save their young in the cold just as those of us who have seen "dead" baby bluebirds come to life repeatedly by just warming them up. Some inexperienced bluebirds look into a box and see their young dead, others look in and quickly cover their cold lifeless bodies and bring them back to life. We are seeing weather extremes that were experienced by our great grand parents! they are seeing things that haven't been seen for 100 generations in the bluebirds! Off to swap out Data Loggers! KK From: "judymellin" judymellin"at"netzero.net I had posted previously about the nest with eggs that took almost a month to hatch. My miracle bluebird babies are alive and active, so active that one tumbled towards the door when I opened the box so I shut it really quickly! I turned around and there was Papa on a stump with a worm in his mouth, giving me the evil eye! I walked a distance away and, for the first time this year, got to watch Mama and Papa flying back and forth and back and forth with baby food. YEA! We have another nest of four eggs so there should be baby blues galore this year! And, in my binoculars all at once, were the two blues and a gorgeous common yellowthroat. It's Memorial Day weekend and I'm still wearing my long underwear when I monitor. Go figure! Judy Mellin, NE IL. From: "College Town" collegetown"at"I-55.com Just to recap on who I am: This morning I checked the box and all of the babies were to one side of the nest. I did a double check b/c I saw what appeared to be a blue egg. Now it is around 5:30 this morning so the sun is not all the way up and I have been up about 10 minutes. Surely it is just a fecal sac, right?? Wrong. There is a blue egg in there. Now, my mind starts playing all these scenarios. Originally there were 5 eggs and only 4 hatched. I assumed that the parents removed the unhatched egg. I have not noticed it until today. Maybe they did not move it and b/c the babies were all to one side today I saw it. Next scenario--Could the male have found a new mate and brought her back to this nest? Would she lay eggs in a nest with nestlings inside? I have never seen all 3 of the nestlings to one side before, but I would have thought I would have noticed the blue egg when the birds were smaller and featherless. How would I know for sure that this is the old egg? It appears normal in size and color and does not stink. I don't know if I should leave it or move it. I have not seen another female, just the male still feeding the babies. A new adventure everyday!!! Kim From: "Mary Beth Roen" mbroen"at"hotmail.com Kim, I have had this happen a few times, and in each case, it was an infertile egg. I usually remove them if I see them, but sometimes they get pushed to the bottom of the nest, and aren't noticed until the others fledge. If you can remove it easily, I would do so, as if it breaks, it will "stink"! Mary Roen, River Falls, WI From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber) Hi Kim, Many nests have unhatched eggs left in them after young leave the nest. No this isn't a new egg, it was left from the present nesting. How they manage all that activity without breaking the egg is a mystery. Joe Huber Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber... From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas Eggs are shipped commercially on pallets 42"x48" and six to seven feet tall weighing about 3,000 lbs. with only the strength of the egg shell supporting the entire height and weight of the eggs above. They are stored in cardboard "flats" that hold 2&1/2 dozen eggs with 30 dozen in a cardboard box. Thirteen pallets of eggs (scattered out in the room) took the weight of the concrete ceiling falling over 6 feet down on cardboard boxes and only broke those few buckets of eggs! The ceiling lights were what actually broke the eggs because the weight of the ceiling drove the light fixtures through the boxes. The average human cannot take their thumb and forefinger of one hand and crush a "normal" chicken egg when they grasp it from large end to small end. There are exceptions to this rule if the egg shell is overly thin but it makes for an interesting experience for kids at a party IF you use BOILED eggs for the experiment! Then you get to tell these boys and girls that they are not as strong as a day old chick! KK From: "College Town" collegetown"at"I-55.com It has been 25 days since the mother started incubating the 4 eggs. As of today, none of them have hatched. I believe she has finally realized they are not going to hatch. I saw her a couple of times yesterday, but she was not sitting on the eggs. Yesterday evening she did not show up for mealworms and she was not on the eggs this morning. I looked for her several times. Yesterday afternoon I decided to take out an egg and examine it. It was still mostly blue but in some spots you could see a faint brownish color. Some things I observed about this nesting that were different from the last two. 1. Different mother I am disappointed, however I feel so lucky to have seen this process happen twice earlier this year. It is probably to late for the bb to build a new nest but I look forward to their return next year. Can I go ahead and clean out the box or should I wait a couple of days? By the way, there were not any types of bugs in or around the nest. Kim Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 11:04:04 -0400 Hi All, We're having a similar situation here and are interested in your feedback to Kim. We have a female sitting on a nest of 4 eggs. Dad's not been seen for almost a week. (Hope our new hawk chicks didn't get him!). She is leaving the nest frequently to get food. We've started giving her mealworms, bird grub, bird treat, etc. She eats anything we put out. We'll continue to supplement her diet when the chicks hatch. Any other ideas? Patty in WV From: EHDerry"at"aol.com Kim: I don't know what the answer to your question is, but I just had the same experience. After 21 days of incubating, I removed the eggs (5) and the nest three days ago. We opened one of the eggs and it was just a yellow gelatinous liquid. Same conditions as you - male not around much, no sign of insects, etc. Anyway, after removing the nest and eggs (I felt sorry for her sitting and sitting in the heat), she immediately began building a new nest in the box beside the first and dad has been around a lot now. We will see what happens - it is late up here for a new nesting to begin. Judy Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 08:03:05 -0400 Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2002 13:00:34 -0700 (PDT) I have a quick question before we take our vacation. I have a nestbox in my yard that has had 3 eggs in it for about a month now I found them after we came back from a short trip about the 1st week of July. I haven't seen the parents around it much, mostly the male sitting on the fence close by. I have never seen the female in the box in any attempt to incubate the eggs but I have seen her. It has been very hot(95+ degrees) here for the past few weeks. The nest is scantly made with no bottom and the eggs are on the bare wood floor of the box. I have no intentions of removing the eggs but when I last checked them they were discolored. One half of the egg is a darker color than the other half. It is as if you were dying easter eggs and dipped the bottom half of the egg in a slightly darker color of blue. Does this mean maybe the substance inside has settled to one end of the egg which is the darker end of the egg? leading me to think the eggs are no longer viable? I have read several stories this season of eggs hatching after monitors thought they were abandoned so I will leave them. Anyone else seen this in any of their eggs? Kerry in NE corner of Okla. From: TomGaryH"at"aol.com Kerry, Is it possible that you are looking at "halves" of different egghells? That is, is half of an eggshell covering on half of a complete egg as happens sometimes? I came upon this once and it took a while for me to see what had happened. I think there is a common name for this but it escapes me at this moment. Tom in Milton Florida Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 20:34:41 -0500 It sounds like the eggs are inviable, as you guessed. The different colors are due to egg contents on one end and air on the other. Kate Oschwald, Paris, TX From: "Burnham, Barbara" Barbara.Burnham"at"zzz.zzz Could you tell by "candling" the eggs? Can someone on the list tell us how to "candle" eggs? Is this safe to do with wild bird eggs? Thanks, Barbara Burnham Ellicott City, Maryland Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 17:55:46 -0700 (PDT) Kerry, You might mark the eggs to see if they are being rotated by mom. Might as well be patient this late in the season. Dan Sparks Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 15:25:04 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA Kerry, yes, the eggs are old. The ones I save that never hatch sometimes do that. I think that maybe the parents are nesting again nearby - in a natural cavity or another nest box?????? :-) H Haleya Priest mablue"at"gis.net ... Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 21:37:52 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Western Bluebirds can and do remove eggs from their nests. Sometimes they leave spoiled eggs in the nest, but other times they remove not just a few eggs, but an entire clutch. An example of an entire clutch being removed by Bluebirds just occurred this week and here are the circumstances and observations: A datalogger was attached to a nest after one egg was laid. This particular pair continued laying eggs but must have become spooked and aborted the attempt. When I returned to remove the device at the end of the week, the nestcup was being reworked, an egg was on the corner of the nestcup rim (which I removed), two others were in the nestcup, and the homeowner reported that he saw a bluebird egg on the top of his block wall fence for a good part of a day before a crow spotted it. Since all this activity was in transition during the checkup, I didn't know if the two eggs in the nestcup were part of the old clutch or whether they were freshly laid--so they were left as-is. A couple of days later, the two remaining eggs had been removed, the reworked nestcup had been prepared to receive a fresh clutch, and the parents continue to guard the nestbox and territory. A similar instance occurred at a different site. Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 16:46:08 -0700 (PDT) Hey all, My 5th season in Indiana, I would guesstimate that more than 75% of the EABL eggs that are laid are fertile and hatch. In my second year in Illinois, not much more than 50% of the EABL hatch. So far this year 8 of 14 hatched. My Illinois trail is in farmland where I have heard of fungus and chemicals which are known to hurt the reproductive systems of migratory birds. I wonder if keeping track of eggs vs hatchings is important info. Does the egg vs hatches ratio correlate to environmental health? Bob Sitarski a.k.a The Doctor, Jackson County Indiana ( 38.5244N 86.023W ) & Clay County Illinois ( 38.4008N 88.2908W ) From: "ke4fej1" ke4fej1"at"email.msn.com Hi All, Just got a report in...that our Hillsborough County box has 7 eggs as of yesterday. And she said the male was on the nest and did not leave when she checked today. I have not read where they lay more than 7 eggs.....could they lay more? I am reading the posts...but oh am I busy. Put in 2 more Trails this weekday, and then we marking off our second golf course tomorrow, and I put in our third golf course on Monday. Might be sending out setups for our 4th golf course in Naples. They have only one setup which we have already sent down, and I still have one individual to deliver her Trail in next couple of days. I took off 3 days of work and I am building boxes etc as fast as I can. My neighbor brought over a larger saw for me to use so I can go faster. So we could have 159 boxes in the ground by next Saturday. And that would be 27 Trails. And I have 5 individuals on hold/or building Trails. I now go to work to have a vacation from doing BB things! Christy Sarasota, FL, Web Site http://ke4fej1.tripod.com/ From: "Lawrence Herbert" lherbert"at"4state.com Christy and all. Seven eggs in a clutch is rare but happens once in a while. Five eggs in the spring and four eggs for second and third clutches in the summer is the norm for our Eastern Bluebird in Missouri and Kansas. I have had clutches of six eggs on several occasions over the years, but never seven, so good for you! I would think that clutches of less than three eggs are due to weather or predation. According to the literature both the Western and the Mountain Bluebird tend to lay slightly larger clutch sizes overall. Good birding, Larry H. Joplin MO. 4-28-03 Lawrence Herbert lherbert"at"4state.com From: "Crystal Hill" crystaljhill"at"msn.com This morning while going out to feed the bluebirds their mealworms, mama flew from the nest box as usual. I checked the nest box and only 2 eggs. I immediately started looking on the ground, and to my surprise there was the egg not cracked still warm, I put it back in the nest box. Is it possible that when she flew out the egg fell out?? The birdhouse is not a typical bluebird house it is not very deep. Will the egg be okay? The eggs are due to hatch this weekend. Thanks Crystal From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"tds.net Crystal, Bruce Burdett, SW NH Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 12:14:34 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA Any other predators would have eaten the egg. So without alarming you, most likely whom ever did this will come and do it again - so plan to spend a LOT of time keeping an eagle eye on that box. If you don't know what the HOWR or HOSP look or sound like, I would click on the REF GUIDE below and click on a field guide or the alpha codes (HOWR/HOSP) and listen to their song so you know what you have. A bluebird will remove a defective egg, but would take it a LONGGGGGG way
from the nest. From: "Louis Herrin" louish"at"gate.net I have 3 white BB eggs and one I think if a cowbird egg. The male and female are tending to them in the usual manner. I dont keep records, but these eggs are over 18 day old. Are they duds, the pair are still active, I saw them an hour ago. Louis in Georgia From: NYSassy1005"at"aol.com We have only found blue eggs in the BB nest. Do these eggs belong to them or
of a different species of birds? The blue birds are there everyday tending to
them. Does anyone have any pics that I could see of BB eggs. This is their 2nd
nesting, leaving 5 eggs in another BB house unattended. They were blue also. From: "emcooper" emcooper"at"bayou.com You can go to our website www.labayoubluebirdsociety.org and see the blue Bluebird eggs and the white ones. Five percent of all Bluebirds lay white eggs. Evelyn Cooper From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber) Hi Louis, It's not how old the eggs are that counts. It's how long has the female been incubating them. The eggs can lay there several days before incubation starts. Since you havent been monitoring the nest regularly there is no way of knowing how long the eggs have been kept warm. It,s best to give them a little more time to be sure they won't hatch. Joe Huber, Venice, Fl. Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber.... Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 06:17:31 -0700 (PDT) If you could contact me offline or onlist if you think others would be interested in egg info so I could pick your brain on what to look for I would appreciate it. In brief, I used a very bright light. One end of each egg is very clear (varies 25-40% of the egg is clear. A distinct line seperates the clear area from a dark grey area. In the dark grey area I can barely distinguish a darker spot which I believe is the embryo. The distint line seems to indicate to me that the eggs haven't been turned in a long while. The egg shells no longer look a bright sky blue as they have darkened some. I believe that the eggs are no longer viable. According to the nestbox monitor the eggs should have hatched around July 4th. No adult BB activity at the nestbox for atleast 7 days Eyes wide open; always hoping for the sun Bob Sitarski a.k.a The Doctor, Jackson County Indiana ( 38.5244N 86.023W ), & Clay County Illinois ( 38.4008N 88.2908W ) From: Evelyn Cooper, emcooper"at'bayou.com Reading the posts about the female sitting on the nest with her head sticking out reminded me of three summers ago of what I observed in the backyard nestbox. I saw two females fighting over the nestbox. The first morning there was one egg, and the second morning there were 3 eggs. Five eggs were laid in the nestbox. One of the females dumped an egg in the box on the second morning. The female that sat on the nest sat with her head out of the nestbox the whole time. Only one of the eggs hatched. I thought it was because she did not incubate them well. I observed this lone baby and his parents all through the summer and winter and up until nesting season. The nestbox they chose to nest in is about 300 yards from my house and I saw what looked like the parents shooing the fledgling away from the nestbox that spring. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA. Louisiana Bayou Bluebird Society www.labayoubluebirdsociety.org MemberNABS From: Okatsam"at"aol.com, Okatsam"at"aol.com From: Bet Zimmerman, ezdz"at"charter.net Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 10:25 PM Subject: Need help with hatching question--blood ring Malinda--according to a very good webpage on egg candling (http://animalscience.ucdavis.edu/Avian/pfs32.htm), a blood ring indicates an embryo that died at a young age. This page is a useful reference for people who want to determine if an unhatched egg is infertile/dead. I wonder if the hole in that egg is really a "pip," although the webpage does say that sometimes chicks die shortly after pipping the shell. From what I have read about pipping (at least for ducks) you are NOT supposed to try to assist a bird/try to speed up the process because if you do it too early or too fast, the chick will bleed to death. From a parakeet website: http://www.bcv.asn.au/Hatching.htm: "It is possible to assist a chick out of the egg but the timing of this is important. It is not until the 18th day that the final traces of yolk are absorbed into the chicks abdomen and the umbilicus is sealed shut. Assisting the chick before that time will cause its death. Often, you can candle the egg to see if the yolk sac has fully retracted and that membranes below the shell no longer contain viable blood vessels. The actual time from which the first expansion of the neck muscle broke through the shell until the chick emerges from the egg can vary from 48 to 72 hours. Initially, you may hear a quiet tapping or even weak squeaks, and find a fine crack, group of cracks or crack plus a tiny hole in the shell. This is the beginning stages of the hatching process and no action is required. If you can hear loud squeaks, see creamy off white patches on the shell with a crack line around its circumference, and detect moist membranes you are observing the latter stages of a normal hatching and it is not necessary to assist the chick. If you can hear loud squeaks and find a widened crack line around the circumference of the egg or a large hole in the egg, and can observe a dried or drying membrane, then you can assist the chick, as it is having difficulties. To do this, take a haemostat or tweezers and gently work your way around the crack line with the air sac end in an upright position. You will be able to see the position and movement of the chick as you do this. Once having separated the egg, most chicks will be pushing and forcing the shell apart. If this is the case, gently return it to the nest box and the chick and hen will do the rest. If on the other hand, the dried membrane has adhered itself to the chick or shell, moisten a cotton swab in sterile saline solution and place it on the membrane. This will loosen it enough so that you can remove the chick safely from the shell. If there is slight bleeding at the navel, swab the umbilicus area with a 1% solution of Betadine and place the chick in the nest box. If the egg sac has not completely retracted, you should leave the chick in the bottom part of the shell and place it in an upright position. This sometimes works as it allows extra time for the yolk to retract." There is also a webpage on assisted hatching in cockatiels at http://justcockatiels.com/assist_hatches.htm. Bet from CT [Note from webmaster: Malinda indicated that unfortunately, this egg did not make it. Three hatched and this one was pipping when the bloody ring around the middle started up. With the stethescope she could hear the breathing and the pipping, so it was alive, most likely stuck to the shell at some spot on it's body, and thus the blood. The bluebirder brought it inside and moistened the egg with warm moist paper towels and things did look better for a bit, but then the heartbeat and pipping stopped. Eventually the bluebirder did begin removing the shell to see if there was anything obvious about what caused it to die, and the little guy was perfectly formed and full size. .... This makes two times now for this female and BOTH were on first clutches of the year, and only to ONE EGG. All others hatched out fine with no difficulties at all.... ] From: JCGARRIOTT"at"satx.rr.com I raise quail, and learned how to candle eggs to determine if they are viable or not. You have to have a light source, not a candle but a flashlight or low watt bulb, then put the egg over a hole or a funnel made with paper ( I made a cone with an open end from black drawing paper) and the light at the large end of the cone and focus the light directly at the egg. You can see through the shell things like blood rings (bad!!), or normal opacity filling most of the egg with an air space at the large end. The eggs that are clear after a week or so are infertile or dead. Never tried bluebird eggs, and I think they would be a great challenge due to the shell pigmentation. I wouldn't consider it, but let's hear from someone who has done it. Jim Garriott From: Bet Zimmerman, ezdz"at"charter.net Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:25 PM RE: Candling A flashlight with a bright light works fine with bluebird eggs. Bet From: Evelyn Cooper, emcooper"at"bayou.com Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:10 AM RE: Candling "The oils from the skin on our fingers clogs the egg's pores. Believe it or not, eggs must breathe out gasses and breathe in oxygen. So, if eggs must be handled, use rubber gloves." The above is from an LBBS member that talks about candling eggs. He has not done bluebird eggs, but has other eggs. I would think use the thin rubber gloves so as to be able to handle them better. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA Member From: Evelyn Cooper, emcooper"at"bayou.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One thing you should consider when transferring or handling eggs, is because of its construction, it allows moisture as well as gasses to pass in and out. This is a natural occurrence, which is important for healthy development and growth of the embryo. One problem, however, is that it also allows germs to penetrate the shell. The vast majority of addled Budgerigar eggs (66%) are due to infection. Of these, the major cause of infection is staphylococci and the strain of staphylococci is human! Use disposable plastic gloves or egg tongs when handling eggs or at least dip your hands into a disinfectant such as Iodine V.18 or Virkon S. Another consideration is the temperatures of your fingers when handling eggs. These should be warmer than the eggs themselves as the effects of cold hands cause the inner membrane of the egg to contract slightly, having a drawing in effect. This sucking action, although very small, is sufficient to allow bacteria to be drawn through the porous shell. http://www.bcv.asn.au/TransEggs.htm Hygiene is of optimal importance when handling eggs. The egg shell is not impervious, and so can absorb infections and toxins. It is generally best to mark eggs with a graphite pencil. This is non-toxic. Some Texta style felt pens are xylene-free, non-toxic and safe for use. As long as your hands are clean, then there is little risk of infection for the developing embryo. Remember that washing of eggs is not recommended, as this can facilitate the entry of disease-causing organisms across the shell and associated membranes into the embryo, resulting in infection. http://www.parrotsociety.org.au/vet/vet_009.htm Before retrieving the eggs from the nest, carefully wash your hands so as not to spread any diseases. http://petplace.compuserve.com/Articles/artShow.asp?artID=3546 Collection of eggs and proper handling is important to successful hatching. Many producers use disposable gloves to handle and gather eggs. Others use a similar idea employing disposable plastic bags while still others simply wash and clean their hands thoroughly before handling eggs. Which ever the case, the idea is to prevent unnecessary contamination of the egg. http://www.cvm.okstate.edu/instruction/kocan/ostrich/ostbk2b3.htm Kleinpeter Music...Baton Rouge, LA 70809-5507 From: LMelch"at"1122aol.com From: Evelyn Cooper,
emcooper"at"bayou.com From: Evelyn Cooper, emcooper"at"bayou.com Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 9:42 AM Subject: RE: egg dumping I witnessed it in my back yard about two years ago. The second morning of laying, the nest had three eggs. I saw two females having knock down drag out fights at the nestbox. Five eggs were laid and one female incubated. She sat with her head sticking out the hole and only one egg hatched.(She must have been apprehensive) I got a close up view of all the goings on. If there was another post about egg dumping, I did not receive it. Evelyn Cooper, Delhi, LA From: ke4fej1"at"email.msn.com From: Evelyn Cooper <mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com> We know that females turn the eggs when incubating. Today
when I monitored #16, one of the eggs was sitting right up
on the edge of the nest. I always open it very carefully and
was very surprised to see it sitting there. I just left it
as is and hopefully, mama will know her stuff and take care
of it. This is the 4th day of incubation. From: Evelyn Cooper, emcooper"at"bayou.com Yesterday when I checked the nestbox, the egg was back down in the nest with the rest of them. Time will tell if any don't hatch. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA Member NABS Louisiana Bayou Bluebird Society Affiliate of NABS www.labayoubluebirdsociety.org From: L Violett [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net] When I find an egg right up at the edge of the nest, it is usually an indication that the egg (infertile?) is trying to be removed by the adult(s). Linda V. From: Kim
Smith [mailto:kannsmith1"at"yahoo.com] ...Here's what I have going on... My (first ever) bluebird pair layed their fifth egg today - I think she started incubating as well but I'm not sure. A couple robins have been pretty pesty but they've taken care of keeping away the other birds without any problem. BUT I need some help! We are supposed to have temps in the low/mid 20s on friday night and I'm worried for the eggs... any comments or suggestions? Kim, Northern IN From: Sheryl
Bassi, sbassie"at"bellsouth.net ...Since I live in the Deep South , we are well past freezing temps. We don't normally have nestings in extremely inclement weather. However, if your nestbox is “tight”, meaning no gaps in the seams to let airflow through, then Momma and Poppa Bluebird should be able to take care of their babies for an overnight low. For one lasting into the next day, I can't address. I'm sure, however, that some of our IN members, and those even further north can share their thoughts on this. ...Sheryl Bassi, Leland , MS, Sec/Treas., Louisiana Bayou Bluebird Society From: Horace Sher [mailto:hjsher1"at"yahoo.com]
Hello....Everytime I've ever observed when the female laid her eggs, it has always been in the morning almost always before 11 am or 12 noon & usually before 10 am. But yesterday I observed a box somewhat past 12 noon & the box had 4 eggs. The 4th egg being laid the previous morning. So I thought she was finished. By the way when I felt the 4 eggs, they were cool...telling me that she hadn't started incubation yet. Anyway, later about several hours, I checked again. This was late in the afternoon & there were now 5 eggs. (still cool eggs) She laid that 5th egg in the afternoon...I think well past 12 noon. I think this is quite interesting, since all the documention I've ever read plus my own observations have been.. that the eggs being laid in the morning. I haven't checked today yet, but will do so. Anyone else ever observed the same thing? Horace in NC. From: Debi Money I forgot I noticed one little blue egg had a white streak on it, Is that bad?? I hope not. I will keep you posted. debi money From: KCBSP"at"aol.com That's okay...just a pigment variation. Kathy Clark, New Cumberland, PA From:
Kenny Kleinpeter [mailto:kpkmajk"at"cox.net] An eggshell has several layers to it that are added in stages as the egg passes through the female. At one point, the base color of the egg is added. Then, the last stage, a second layer of color is added - the speckles, streaks or dots. The white streak was probably just a foreign object that prevented the base color from being applied during production. You'd almost think more than one egg might have this similar streak. At any rate, the egg is probably just as healthy. Kenny Kleinpeter Baton Rouge, LA From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"tds.net]
Debi, et al, These occasional white streaks are common. Not to worry. I'm sure that someone out there will explain their physiological origin. It probably has to do with the complex process by which shell is produced and pigmented in the female's body. (Some of them may even be a dab of feces.) I've seen these streaks also on Robin eggs, which are normally solid blue. Bruce Burdett, SW NH From: Bet Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net]
I forgot I thought the white marks (like scratches almost) came from the female constantly turning the eggs with her beak.... Maybe this is different than the "streak" concept. Bet From:
Tyler Mann [ mailto:t_mann05"at"hotmail.com ] Good news. the EABL eggs hatched succesfully yesterday. all 5! i also have TRES begin a nest in the front yard but in view of the EABL's about 45 yards away south . by the way I only use my 3 gilbertson boxes. I had to take 1 box down about 150 yards West of the EABL's because sparrows made the TRES move to the front yard and i trapped and caught a male HOSP and disposed of him but the female is still laying eggs. so i moved it untill she leaves. if u picture my yard it is almost a triangle of boxes. The TRES are very fortunate that the EABL male is not chasing them away like last year when i attempted to place the box where it is at (45 yards south of the EABL's. I am wondering about after this year. the male EABL has nested in the same location for his 5th year this year. I belive the Female is different because she did not use the mealworm feeder(the enclosed kind) and the male EABL did. How long do EABL's live? i am wondering if there will be any next year? last year i did see 1 other pair in the area, but who knows if they will come my way. my last question is......Has anyone ever had EABL nesting and after the 5th egg is laid, take it out, wait till the next egg is laid(for a total of 5) and replace the one taken out and let the EABL's raise 6 youg? im not saying i will try it but if anyone has, did it turn out well? there would be more EABL's to enjoy but more work for the EABL's. any solution to solve problems with HOSP's taking over Gilbertson nest boxes. I also have a pole barn in the backyard with 2 horses and this is where lots of HOSP and EUST's spend their time. i dont have problems with Starlings, just HOSP. any suggestions are greatly apprecitated! thanks, Tyler, West Central Ohio From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net]
Tyler asked if removing an egg would make the female lay an extra egg: Removing bluebird eggs while the female is actively laying them would not be a good idea. First of all this would fall under illegal acts according to USA bird protection laws:-)) IF you wanted to experiment with getting "A" female bird to lay MORE eggs then it would be OK to work with European Starlings and House Sparrows. You could place nestboxes where these birds are numerous and remove their eggs to your hearts content! Actually there has already been research done on increasing the numbers of eggs laid but you DO NOT want to remove the last eggs laid. I believe Bent worked with the Yellow Shafted Flicker and found that you let them lay the first and second egg and then remove only one of the eggs. Birds tend not to be able to count and as long as there is still one egg in the nest some species will continue to try to lay a four or five egg clutch. In the case of the flicker she laid 71 eggs in 73 days (give or take a few as this is from memory). Humans have been increasing the numbers of eggs laid by birds by removing some ever since they began keeping chickens and the high egg laying species of ducks. We normally would keep some fake eggs in the chicken nests and remove the real eggs for eating. With bluebirds, increasing the number of eggs laid might not actually increase the number of young birds that will survive to breeding season next year. With Whooping Cranes biologists routinely remove one of the two eggs they lay and hand raise them. They began by placing the Whooping Crane egg in a Sandhill crane foster parent nest but these young Whoopers grew up believing they were Sandhills and NEVER mated with their own species. Back to making Happy House Sparrows. Sparrows mate frequently while they are actively laying eggs so it WOULD be interesting for the passive sparrow controllers to allow the sparrows to nest in your yard and monitor closely and remove the second egg and see how long or how many eggs a sparrow can lay. Bent removed the Flicker eggs at night so as not to be seen near the nest. House Sparrows OFTEN sit in the nest at night while they are laying eggs so it would also be part of the experiment to see what time of day is best to remove the extra eggs. After you get a supply of sparrow eggs then you could also do a reverse experiment and see if adding two or three eggs a day will make her QUIT laying eggs and begin incubation. I believe you will find that these birds will lay four or five eggs no matter how many you add to their nest. KK From: Jeff Macdonald [mailto:jeff.macdonald"AT"virtualbuilder.com]
Hi, I write my birding entries in my weblog and a gentleman made this comment: "I have had bluebirds for years. This year my bluebirds layed pink eggs. Why would they lay pink eggs?" Does anybody have an answer for him? From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"AT"sbcglobal.net]
Normally bluebirds lay a thick enough layer of calcium down that you cannot see the insides of the egg through the calcium layer. Sometimes even with "blue" eggs the calcium is thin enough that you can EASILY see the air sack in the large end of the egg even through the blue covering and the calcium. Even more rarely will you find a white egg (lacking in bluebird blue) and also having a thin calcium layer making the eggshell very translucent. A thin shell allows light to pass through the shell and bounces light back from the inside contents of the egg giving the egg the "appearance" of being a creamy pink shade. These birds only have 24 hours to lay an egg to remove it from her oviduct, move another fertilized yolk into place, manufacture the "egg white" to feed the yolk (embryo), form a membrane around the egg white then lay down another layer of calcium thick enough to protect this egg for up to two weeks or longer! Lets put this in human terms: This egg is nearly 10% of the weight of the female bluebird and is rich in calcium, amino acids, protein,vitamin and LOTS of water! A 125 pound human woman would need to eat enough and drink enough to produce a 12.5 pound bouncing baby everyday for a week AND still enjoy the company of her mate! Physically she would need to be able to run, swim, jump or compete at a very high level in ANY athletic sport! She would be required to attend to house cleaning and guarding of the "nest area" you know put up with all of the relatives coming by to see the new additions (bluebird monitors looking into the nest every couple of hours, adding guards, reducing the height of the nest, moving the nestbox, checking for blowflies, mowing around the box, landscaping the area, letting out the dog or cat for a while and on and on ETC:-))) Put up with all of this while every other species or individual in the area is competing with you for food and housing or you are living in the middle of a civil war surrounded by the creatures of Jurassic Park which they really are when you consider the predators. She still needs to go out and find and prepare meals extremely rich in the required vitamins, minerals and nutrients essential to a healthy developing embryo/egg. Of course if mealworms are available she will stuff herself on just these BUT what if mealworms are only as good nutrition wise as a corn dog???? A meal worm ONLY contains the vitamins, minerals and essential amino acids that are available in the food YOU feed them! Whew thank goodness I went for another cup of coffee no TELLING where I was going to go with that last paragraph!:-)))) Thin shelled eggs: LOTS of reasons, from the egg not being in the oviduct long enough (this should only affect one egg), to a calcium poor diet to the female getting older and not able to remove enough calcium from her own bones for the eggshell (osteoporosis), to a genetic defect in digestive tract or infection ETC. These would affect the whole clutch and some would/could affect ALL later clutches. Instead of wondering WHY we see something rare like a "pink egg" we should wonder HOW these birds have survived for millions of years to bring so much PEACE and JOY into SO many human lives! Ask questions and search for answers but ALWAYS share the knowledge of the "BLUEBIRD OF HAPPINESS". This AIN'T no "Easter Bunny" it is as real as a sunrise! You can hear the songs drifting to you through the morning mist, you can see or touch one of these living miracles, you can hold a whole generation of bluebirds in the palm of your hand! They are eternal optimists and sing and seem to enjoy life no matter how brutally the world treats them or their family just the day before. Each morning these birds seem to welcome the new day like it will rain mealworms and safe nestboxes from the heavens forever more......Those male birds singing their hearts out EVERY morning before dawn are telling the world how wonderful their mate is and how GLAD they are to have another day to share with them! Happy Belated Mother's Day Someday I hope human's can experience or simply express their feelings or share the Peace and Joy these birds have everyday! Keith Kridler :-) From: Pamela Ford [mailto:jpford"at"comcast.net] Two days ago, the backyard female bluebird laid what appeared to be the first egg of the second clutch. That same afternoon the egg was destroyed by a HOSP. The next morning, the female decided to enter a different box with a HOSP trap in it and get herself trapped. I released her quickly, but she was chattering away at me quite upset. No egg in the box that day. Today she spent the morning sitting on the nestbox and there was some mating activity, but the pair left around noon and no egg was laid. So, I'm curious. Can she “turn off” the egg laying temporarily?Could she have built another nest somewhere else in one day?Could the trama of being trapped or the loss of the egg to the HOSP stop egg laying? From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net] Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 8:31 AM Re:egg laying question Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant Texas Once the yolk is in the oviduct I believe the calcium build up and egg laying cannot be stopped. Kind of like if a human baby is crowning and you tell the mother to just wait a couple more days... The birds normally will dump the egg if they cannot get into their nestbox when egg laying time comes but they can normally hold for several hours extra with not too much problem. The predation at the nestbox and the trauma of getting trapped in another nestbox probably led to her dumping her egg somewhere. In a case like this I expect the female to totally stop laying eggs for a few days and possibly build another nest in another location (if there are plenty of nestboxes near) and then lay another clutch of 4-5 eggs. There is a whole string of yolks coming out of the ovary of a laying hen (chicken) and when their clutch is complete they will absorb these extras when they begin incubation. Bluebirds ovulate about every 24 hours, some species of birds lay eggs every other day and chickens and some ducks ovulate about every 25-27 hours and they can hold eggs until morning. These domestic birds average about 5 or 6 eggs laid a week. ..... KK From: Tina Phillips [mailto:cbp6"at"cornell.edu]
Greetings, I have just received a call from a woman near Ithaca who has a very gray female Eastern Bluebird that just finished laying a clutch of pale pink eggs. I have heard of eggs turning pinkish when they have aged, but not as they are laid. My guess is that, just like in the case of white eggs, this is a random event, caused by pigments in the female oviduct. What's curious to me is the fact that the female is very gray, with just a trace of blue on her tail, so I am wondering if one is affecting the other. Has anyone else had a similar experience? Thanks, Tina Phillips The Birdhouse Network From: Doogelbery"at"aol.com [mailto:Doogelbery"at"aol.com] From: JOHN & BARBARA SIBIO
[mailto:jsibio"at"comcast.net] Does anyone know how long it actually takes a bird to lay an egg? I know they lay one a day, and usually in the morning, but is the actual process short, long, or what? Just curious! Barbara in Cloverdale CA From:
ke4fej1 [mailto:ke4fej1"at"email.msn.com] Hi Barbara and All, Interesting you ask this. One of my Monitors documents everything! And I do mean she writes down everything in her Monitor Bluebird book. She purposely watched as each day her birds laid their egg ...as to who went in the box, which order and how long they stayed. Very interesting when you hear the blow by blow for each day. I did not keep those records from her, but if I remember it was around 7:30 in the morning to about 8:00 and by what they did I believe it was about 20 minutes for the egg laying part of their habit. ... Christy Sarasota, FL Web Site: http://ke4fej1.tripod.com/ From: Maynard R Sumner [mailto:m-r-sumner"at"juno.com]
Not all birds are the same like our females. Some take long time and some do not. Some times it is the age of the bird. Maynard S From: Phil Berry [mailto:mrtony8"at"mchsi.com] Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 10:19 AM Subject: Re: Egg Laying this is all available on video tape from the N Carolina BB Society titled "Inside The Nestbox." This is the entire 30 day+ process condensed to 12- 15 minutes. I use the tape as another educational tool when making presentations. You may purchase from the NABS site. Phil Berry From: SCooke [mailto:ncw001"at"nc.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 9:57 AM Subject: EABL nesting question I am a very excited newbie and have finally been successful in having a pair of EABL choose my yard and nesting box as their home. They began nest building on May 28 and laid Egg #1 on June 2 and laid 1 egg/day until there were 4 eggs in the nest. We went out of town for the next 7 days and when I returned, I noticed that there were a few pieces of pinestraw lying on top of the eggs and they seemed to have settled deeper into the nest. The next day, June 13, new nestbuilding began on top of the eggs that had already been laid. Is this common? Is there anything that I should do? I will say that this time, Mr and Mrs B seem confident in their activities and hang around much more. Before they never ate at the feeder and this time they are. Excited in NC, Sharon
-----Original Message----- From: Simon [mailto:simon"at"bowecho.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 9:18 PM Subject: strange.... I checked one of my boxes today. I had seen some activity around there, but not a lot, and I was curious if someone was making a nest. When I opened the box I was surprised to see NO nesting material, but five bluebird eggs. I wondered if they had abandoned the nest, but a few minutes later I saw one come out of the box and fly to a nearby tree. I wonder if the eggs will hatch o.k. without any bedding or insulation or whatever it is that a nest provides. Fortunately for the birds, it's nice and hot. Theresa, Mashall, MI From: Kenny Kleinpeter [mailto:kpkmajk"at"cox.net] ... From: judymellin [mailto:judymellin"at"netzero.net]
I would suggest leaving them alone. The birds for some reason chose to forgo a nest- strange as it seems- so I would not interfere. Several years ago, I opened the box on a windy day to install a sensor for the Cornell study (had no other choice as it had to be installed as soon as possible after the first egg was laid) and, unfortunately, some of the grasses that the birds use in your area and mine blew away. But the eggs hatched successfully although I will admit it was very strange to monitor and find those babies standing on the wooden floor! Judy Mellin NE IL. From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"tds.net] Simon, et al, I would definitely fashion them a nest of clean, dry grass, - nothing elaborate, just enough to give the eggs a softer bed than the wooden floor. Bruce Burdett, Sw NH From:
Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com]
That is a very good idea, Kenny. Some people save abandoned or nests in good shape after fledging just for this purpose. Can you imagine the poop on the floor that would be one big mess if no straw or grass was there to absorb some of it? I know my birds are VERY messy right at the end before fledging. By the way, I found a Grub Worm about 2 inches long in the bottom of one yesterday that they had fledged. It was flat. I guess it was too big for them to handle, so they sat on it. Usually, the parents will break a worm into pieces before offering it to the babies. Evelyn Cooper Delhi,LA From: Kenny Kleinpeter [mailto:kpkmajk"at"cox.net] From: Bogey
[mailto:bogey"at"sc.rr.com] Correct me if I am mistaken. But isn't illegal to "collect" abandoned nests. I know, I know. Sounds ridiculous to me, but some birds and other birds actually reuse the nests. What say all? From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com]
If you don't have a permit, it is, but you must realize that if you do anything to help them, it is considered illegal. We have beat this topic slap in the ground here on BB-List. Over and over again, we have discussed that the authorities look upon us as "good samaritans" and do not slap us in jail for helping the birds. I have talked to my Wildlife people here and they know I monitor to help the birds!!!! Now, let's just jump in here and have a big one!!!!! Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA From: jwick"at"tds.net [mailto:jwick"at"tds.net] I'm guessing the nest was destroyed in another location just as the female was ready to lay her first egg. This was an available nestbox and she began laying................ Ann Wick Black Earth, WI From: Kerry Sweet [mailto:ksweet3450"at"yahoo.com]
My guess is maybe something happen to the first female EABL and the male EABL attracted himself another female to the same nestbox and this is her nest on the top... Kerry in NE corner of Okla. From: Keith & Sandy Kridler
[mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net] If you read all of the post from Sharon you will notice that at the end she describes the current pair of bluebirds acting differently by eating from the feeder and being more possessive of the nestbox. Breeding pairs of Bluebirds do NOT get along very well with other pairs and if there is competition for a nest site or feeder then very often a dominant pair can and will drive off the resident pair and take over the nest site. In this case I would say that while Sharon was gone on vacation a fight occurred between bluebirds and a new pair or female won control of the nestbox, feeder and yard. After the new eggs are laid she might want to compare the size, shape and color of the old clutch of eggs with the new eggs. If it is the same female laying the second clutch of eggs as the first ones then they should be almost identical. If something frightens a pair of bluebirds away from the nestbox during the early incubation of the eggs then very often the same female will wait 7>10 days and resume laying a new clutch of eggs in a new nest over the old eggs. It normally takes a major change in the area around the nestbox or a predator that camps out in the yard for a day or two. Harry Krueger had a female abandon her eggs when a farmer parked his tractor within about 20 feet of an active nestbox for two days. Severe weather can trigger abandonment of the eggs and then the same female beginning a new nest in a couple of weeks. Snakes and cats climbing up to the box has triggered females to abandon their eggs and begin again later. The longer the female had incubated the eggs the less likely she was in abandoning them. Harry Krueger found that most bluebirds on his trail stayed very near their nestbox guarding it if they intended to nest another time. If there was a nest failure and nestboxes nearby were empty then they might move down the road a little ways. He had nestboxes in three different counties for his trail and he did on occasion see them move miles away for a second nesting even when they were successful. The pairs that were VERY aggressive or VERY upset every time he checked the nestbox or trapped the adults were more likely to leave the area after they fledged their young. Harry found that just over 20% of his bluebird pairs were successful in fledging at least one young bird from four different broods in a single breeding season. Many more would attempt four nestings in a single year only to lose one or more clutches. We are just a little north of a line between Dallas TX. and Shreveport LA at an elevation of about 380 feet and bluebirds begin laying eggs normally in Feb. occasionally reports as early as late Jan. and there are normally a few young bluebirds still in nestboxes as late as Sept. When I began checking boxes back in the 1960's it was normally late March when we found the first egg. One year April 1 was the first egg laid out of hundreds of nestboxes. KK [Note from webmaster: thread continued under Abandonment] Continued on Part 5
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