|
Welcome to
The Bluebird Box
since 1995 |
Bluebird Eggs (Part 3)In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website: Predators and Problems On The Bluebird Trail Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 23:40:38 -0500 Joe, What did you mean when you said 3 eggs was rare? You mean the first brood or the second? My first brood had only 3 eggs in it. Wonder what the second brood will be? 3? Plus I got a question has anyone served crushed eggshells to BB's? If so, how well did they take to them? And how did they prepare the eggshells? drying, crushing ect? Boy my female BB has left me a few times to worry me to death & the both of them too. Tho I got them trained now that when I got out they come looking for their mealies. I love it! So, if I don't see them all I gotta do is put the mealies out n I will know if they are in the area or not. And there are times they don't eat the mealies every single time they get something to eat, but they always eat them everyday. Joleen in Indiana Joe Huber wrote: Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 05:08:39 -0700 (PDT) Hello all...Here Keith's answer to my question about whether a female lays 1
less egg each nesting cycle. Horace in NC. ************************************************* ===== Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 08:12:40 -0600 Based upon my own banding experiences and recaptures of banded adult breeding female bluebirds (during the last 5 years), I am in agreement with Keith! It would be interesting to have some input from my friend Erv Davis out in
Montana on this issue, as he has recaptured many, many more breeding adult Ann Wick ... Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 15:15:18 -0400 Hi all, Most of our common birds do not guard the eggs continually until the last one is laid and incubation begins. I have seen robins guard eggs before the clutch is complete, but usually the female will lay an egg and be gone the rest of the day, especially tree swallows. This behavior must be "programmed in" and has probably been done this way for many centuries. This is what I meant in my earlier reality check post when I said that it is futile to expect birds to "learn" to protect their nestings differently or better. It seems senseless to us, but most birds just do not actively guard their eggs, and there's not a whole lot we can do about that. Dot Sarah McLaughlin wrote: I was very confused, as you, at the fact that they don't seem to be Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 04:34:32 -0600 Ann, I've found little difference on the number of eggs on first and second nesting. I think Keith hit the nail right on the head -- the females are all different, just as people. In GENERAL, females (Westerns or Mountains) lay 5-7 eggs either on first or second nesting. In GENERAL, Mountains tend to return to the area in which they were born or the female had a successful nesting (no predation). I banded one pair of Westerns who were nesting in one nestbox and they returned on two successive years and had two successful clutches. Both had been banded as adults and were at least 4 years old. Neither returned to the same nestbox this year and I haven't seen nor recaptured either of them this year. I guess we do what we do because it's fun and interesting. Does create some interesting conversation. Hi Ann and Keith.... Expect to see both of you at Columbus. Erv ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ann E S Wick" jwick"at"mail.tds.net ... Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 22:59:45 -0400 Information from: Don and Lillian Stokes The BlueBird Book Abandoned Young or Eggs: It is sometimes hard to tell if eggs have been abandoned, and there is not much you can do about it if they are. During egg laying, which usually takes place over a period of several days, the female does not stay near the nest during the day, so the eggs will be cool and unattended. Once the female begins incubation, she remains fairly constantly at the box, taking short breaks to get food for herself. If you monitor while she is on a break from incubating, the eggs will usually warm to the touch. Even if they are cool to the touch it does not mean the female has abandoned them. there are times, particularly in cool weather when the female may stay off the nest for a while, that the eggs will cool. If she does not remain off too long, they still will hatch. In cases like this, the incubation period may be longer. Only the female can incubate the eggs. If she dies, the male cannot take over, so the eggs will die. However, once the young have hatched, if one parent dies the other is perfectly capable of raising the young alone. The young can only be considered abandoned if both parents are known to have died or abandoned the nest. The only sure way to know that young are abandoned is to watch the nest at least 4 hrs. to make sure that the parents have not visited it. Abandoned young will be weak and maybe cold, but they can survive about 24 hrs. without food. If you are sure they have been abandoned, call the local or national bluebird society, the Audubon Society, or a bird rehabilitation center. You cannot raise the young birds yourself; it is against the law. They can be raised legally only by someone who is licensed with a special permit from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, or the Canadian counterpart. If you have to care for young bluebirds in an emergency situation while you are getting them to a licensed rehabilitator, here are some tips. First of all, keep them warm. Warm then in your hands or by putting them nest to your body until you get them home; then keep in warm place in a small box with a nest made out of soft tissues. They should be fed every 20 minutes, dawn to dusk. They can be fed meal worms, ( available in pet stores) canned dog food, canned puppy food, small pcs. of ground beef, or scrambled egg or hard-boiled egg yolk. Offer food on blunt tweezers, giving small young tiny bits of food and more developed young larger pcs. Do not try to force-feed young when they are cold; warm them up first. Kathy Bennett Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 22:59:00 -0400 Information from: Donald and Lillian Stokes book: The Bluebird Book Egg Incubation: Usually begins 5 days after the egg laying starts. Incubation takes about 14 days for the first brood, 13 for the second. Nestlings Hatching: The eggs hatch over a period of a day or more and usually in the order which they were laid. In very warm weather, eggs laid early may start development before incubation begins and hatch several days ahead of the others. The young break out of the egg with the aid of an "egg tooth", a hardening at the tip of their upper bill designed just for this purpose. Once the young hatch, the egg tooth is re absorbed into the bird's body and disappears. When you find a piece of eggshell on the ground or in a nest, you can tell if the egg was preyed upon or hatched. Eggs that have hatched have at least a partial straight line of broken shell at the largest diameter of the egg. This is due to the actions of the young bird pecking it's way out. a shell broken completely irregularly, or just punctured, is more likely the result of predation. After the eggs hatch, the female may remove the eggshells or partially eat them , since they contain nutrients such as calcium. Behavior of the Adults: During the first few days after hatching, the female may remain on the nest almost to the extent that she did during incubation. At this point her sittings over the young is called brooding, and its purpose is to keep the young warm. How much brooding she does depends on the weather. In warmer weather the young can be left unattended for longer periods; when it is colder she may need to stay over them almost constantly. The male may bring food to the nest; the female eats some and feeds the rest to the nestlings. Depending on temperature, she may get off the nest and collect additional food for the young. The parents tend to feed each young an average of two times per hr, no matter what size the brood. Among Western bluebirds, the male continues to bring food to the young birds at the same rate throughout the nestling phase, while the female's visits tends to increase in frequency to the point that they outnumber those of the male. In one study of eastern bluebirds, a different pattern occurred- over the nestling phase, male visits decreased while female visits increased. You can estimate the age of the nestlings by watching the feeding behavior of the adults. If when the parents bring food to the nest, they go all the way in and do not leave with fecal sacs ( see below), the young are probably 1-5 days old. If then parents go all the way in into the nest to feed the young and leave with a fecal sac, then the nestlings are about 6-12 days old. If the parents just dip their heads into the entrance hole to feed the young, then they are probably 12-18 days old. If you see one of the adults leave the nest with a white blob in it's bill. This is a fecal sac. The droppings of one of the young all contained in a little membrane. Bluebird nests are often clean of feces right through the nestling phase. This is especially true of eastern and western bluebirds. Among mountain bluebirds and some other birds, such as tree swallows, droppings begin to accumulate in the nest during the days just prior to fledgling, resulting in a messy nest by the time they leave. Submitted By: Kathy Bennett Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:49:04 -0500 Jenny Williams, O'Fallon, MO Good morning fellow BB'ers, The BB pair that have been nesting in my back yard for four yrs. now usually lay three sets of eggs each season. Usually in two of those sets, an egg, or two (or in this last set, three) gets pushed down into the nest very deep and doesn't hatch. (I was the one that wrote in with the ant problem not too long ago. I was sure they were coming for the three un-hatched eggs. The remaining three of that brood fledged last week. So the newspaper nest worked out beautifully....even with all the rain! I have six babies for this season and mom and pop in the yard. Another nest is being built as we speak.) Does anyone know why these eggs aren't being incubated? Is there anything I can do? Thank you all once again. The success of the six blues from my back yard is a group effort and I thank each of you. Sincerely, Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:11:53 -0500 Jenny Williams, O'Fallon, MO Thank you, Dottie, for the "REAL" answers. You have some very good guesses and they are as good as mine. I think you've made an excellent point about the weather being so bad. Once again nature may have taken over and only three of the six hatched in accordance with what mom and dad could provide for. This does seem to happen with the first two clutches laid of each season.......when the weather is still rainy and sometimes cold. I appreciate your reply tremendously. Hope that Huey hangs around for a long time for your enjoyment. We love the simple things in life, don't we. Jenny ----- Original Message ----- ... Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 00:14:40 -0500 Dear group, I have some basic biology questions. On Friday morning, June 1, I found a bunch of feathers from the male EAstern BLuebird's right wing. The feathers had been detached cleanly, not like most birds which have been captured by a hawk where you see quite a bit of bird skin and chunks of feathers. I was hoping he was off in the woods recuperating, although I assumed, because of the number of feathers, he was dead. By that afternoon, the female had lain three eggs. Over the next two days, the female laid two more eggs for a total of five. In the meantime, the male continued to be absent (although a new guy showed up Sunday, June 10th... but that's another story). So, my questions are: How far in advance of egg laying is the egg fertilized? What stimulates the eggs to be laid? Were these last two eggs in the chute, so to speak, and could have been fertilized three days in advance? Were they in the chute, so were laid but without fertilization? Thank you for your help. Molly Jo Miller Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:25:19 -0500 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas We lost our Tom turkey before the hen began laying eggs although they were seen mating. Several days after the Tom was gone the hen began laying eggs and hatched 9 out of 12 eggs. I don't know any research on bluebirds but I feel certain that a normal amount of these eggs will hatch. There is almost no mourning period for bluebirds when they lose a mate and there is no guarantee that the female did not continue to mate with a different male several miles away from your yard. After laying an egg very often the bluebirds will roam around the area. Many other species will have the female searching out other males to mate with to possibly "widen" the gene pool of her nestlings. In other species of birds they also will sometimes mate with a male that is dominant in the area and his DNA will show up in nearly every nest in his breeding territory. Very good question and please keep us posted about the outcome! KK Date: 13 Jun 2001 20:13:05 -0000 How interesting, Mary Jo, that I was just reading this the other day in Gary Ritchison's EASTERN BLUEBIRD. Will post to the List, in case others are interested. If not, pardon the posting and hit delete. On page 62, "Successful copulations are usually initiated by females. ... Copulation take only one to five seconds... Once deposited in the females' cloaca, sperm begin moving up the oviduct; if no egg is present in the oviduct, some may reach the upper section of the oviduct in fifteen minutes. Not all sperm move up the oviduct; some move into special sperm storage tubules located in the walls of the lower portion of the oviduct. Because sperm may be stored in these tubules for several days and appear to be released continuously, females have a constant supply ready to fertilize eggs. Copulatory behavior begins a week or even more before a female bluebird lays her first egg and peaks two to five days before egg laying begins. Such timing seems inappropriate, because eggs are available for fertilization during egg laying and not before. However,once a female begins to lay, sperm are unable to make their way up the oviduct because the way is blocked by an egg moving down the oviduct. During egg laying, female bluebirds usually lay one egg every twenty-four hours. As a result, the only time that sperm can move up the oviduct is immediately after an egg has been laid..." Happy bluebirding, EveryBIRDie! Stan ... Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:47:35 -0500 Hello All, Does anyone know why eggs are pushed to the bottom of the nest and not hatched? Thank you again. ----- Original Message ----- Jenny Williams, O'Fallon, MO Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:26:42 -0500 Hey Jenny! I'm just chiming in here on this one. Very, very interesting. Although I have not "personally" had this experience as of yet. My first thought was that somehow when the female was incubating the eggs, one of the eggs would get pushed down, if you will, between the nesting material and she didn't know it. Because the egg was under the others, it did not receive adequate heat and thus did not develop properly. I'm sure others have better knowledge on this particular question, but this would be my conclusion. Best of luck to you, Sarah McLaughlin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello All, Does anyone know why eggs are pushed to the bottom of the nest and not hatched? Thank you again. ... Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:57:06 -0500 RE: Question: Does anyone know why eggs are pushed to the bottom of the nest and not hatched? Hi All, Don't know if this applies here... but I had two boxes in which this happened this year. Had never seen it prior to this year. One nest was pushed up on the back edge. We soon realized that both were homes for deer mice, as well as the birds. One nest was Bluebirds... the other TRES. We have learned to put a bag over the box if the nest is not level... in the event of mice being under the nesting material. Did capture 2 this way just recently. Just a thought... PH, NW IN ----- Original Message ----- ... Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:59:54 -0500 Dear Sarah, Molly, Linda and All, Thank you very much for the ideas and thoughts. Many of my questions have been answered. Molly, your comment.......: Bottom line, I don't really know why they do this with some eggs, but my experience is that it happens only after the other eggs have hatched. The eggs aren't pushed down prior to hatching, so it isn't a problem with incubation. It happens after the other eggs hatch and is a way to get them out of the way of the nestlings and their antics. Could this be the case with yours? .....most "fits" what seems to be happening. Yes, I believe that this is the case.....the eggs being pushed to the bottom happens most of the time after others have hatched and a day goes by with no more hatching. I guess I like to live "first do no harm" and in this case because of the answers I've received here I will continue to feel comfortable in leaving Mom and Pop to knowing what is best. I won't interfere. I will continue to watch for parasites, since the "pushed" eggs did seem to attract ants in the last clutch. So very grateful for all the help. ----- Original Message ----- ... Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:10:57 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 12:06:01 EDT Hi everyone. I'm very new to the list, and to birding.. We have a pair of eastern bluebirds using one of our nest boxes.. First time and we are so excited.. Here's the thing, the female laid 5 eggs, 4 hatched, but the one that didn't hatch was blue and white.. Does that indicate that it was an infertile egg?? The babies are 2 weeks old tomorrow and all seems to be going great.. How old are they when they fledge the nest?? Thanks in advance love this list... Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 13:56:33 -0400 Hi Kathy: Thank you for writing to the List - I am sure you will find it very helpful. The color of the egg you mentioned that did not hatch should have nothing to do w/its infertility. The color develops just before laying. Sometime they are all white, too. Usually, I remove an unhatched egg when babies are about 5 or 6 days old to prevent egg breakage & possible contamination of nestlings. Your 14 day old nestlings should fledge at about 18 days of age. Be sure they can reach a tree or good safe landing place within at least 100 ft. Try not to open the box after they reach 14 or 15 days of age as it could cause premature fledging. Feel free to write the List if you have any questions or check the Bluebird-L Reference Guide. Good Luck with this fascinating study of cavity nesters. Betty Nichols, Middletown, MD Hi everyone. ... Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 16:34:39 -0500 Hi everyone, I just checked my Eastern Bluebird trail. In the box in our backyard, there is a second nesting that had 5 eggs. Three days ago two baby Bluebirds hatched. Today I checked and there are still only two babies, with three unhatched eggs. I looked at one egg and it had a peep hole in it. I carefully opened the egg and there was a fully formed dead baby Bluebird. I am waiting a day or two before checking the other two eggs to see if they were fertile or not. Does anyone have any ideas why a fully formed baby bird would peep open a little hole in the egg and then die? I had one other nest where only one of five eggs hatched, but the other ones
were infertile. My baby Huey did well also, with both parents all to him or Mary Roen, River Falls, WI Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 12:26:43 -0400 A pair of EAstern BLuebirds (EABL) built a nest, laid four eggs. The next day I found only two eggs left, one broken egg on the ground and one missing egg. I suspect HOuse WRen (HOWR) to be the culprit even though trees are about 100' away and further. The pair of EABL abandoned the nest and built a new nest in a nearby nestbox.
Soon I expect them to lay new eggs. Questions: Fawzi in MD Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 08:01:32 -0400 Randy Jones The pair of EABL abandoned the nest and built a new nest in a nearby All depends on whether the female had begun incubating. If she had, the interruption is already too much. If she had not yet begun incubating, it might be worth a shot. Eggs seem to remain viable for days prior to incubation beginning. You may recall that last year when a female was killed prior to setting, I took her two eggs and fostered them in other nests which had not yet begun incubation, and both successfully hatched. From: "Mary Beth Roen" mbroen"at"hotmail.com I just checked my Eastern Bluebird trail. In the box in our backyard, there is a second nesting that had 5 eggs. Three days ago two baby Bluebirds hatched. Today I checked and there are still only two babies, with three unhatched eggs. I looked at one egg and it had a peep hole in it. I carefully opened the egg and there was a fully formed dead baby Bluebird. I am waiting a day or two before checking the other two eggs to see if they were fertile or not. Does anyone have any ideas why a fully formed baby bird would peep open a little hole in the egg and then die? I had one other nest where only one of five eggs hatched, but the other ones were infertile. My baby Huey did well also, with both parents all to him or herself! Mary Roen, River Falls, WI From: "dputman" dputman"at"syix.com Hi Mary, What you described--chicks that die hatching--occurs quite often among wood ducks. I find many eggs like this throughout the course of a season, maybe 2-3 dozen (90 nestboxes). A friend has suggested that it could be due to chick / duckling inability to turn itself with its feet to continue pecking the circular route needed to open the eggshell. So, possibly mal-developed foot / feet. He further suggests that mal-development can sometimes be related to lack of egg-turning by the hen during incubation. Don't know. I've noticed that it seems to happen much more when the weather is 100degrees. The same friend suggests that humidity is a factor, too (this friend operates a fed-licensed egg/ duckling rescue facility; he hatches/ raises 1000 ducklings per year). I think his theory was that the hatching bird needs to be moist to rotate / move in the egg while hatching, otherwise they may have difficulty or even get stuck. I don't know. Maybe there are experts who can answer. Keith Kridler, who grew up on a large chicken ranch, and who used to post to Bluebird-L a lot, used to post a lot of info regarding related topics. I haven't seen anything from him for a while. Maybe he would know. Kevin Putman From: Simwoodduk"at"aol.com Hi Kevin, I do not know about bluebird eggs, but the moisture content on wood duck eggs is critical for the ducklings to pip out of their egg shell. The female has to leave the box quite often while her ducklings are hatching, drop down into the water and come back quickly while her feathers still have moisture on them and transfer it to the eggs as she rotates them. The hotter the ambient temperature, the more often she has to leave. If she does not do it often enough, some ducklings never make it out of the egg shell. The membrane is what gets dry and to tough for the ducklings to cut through with their egg tooth. I did a three year weather study on this very thing trying to figure out if the hot weather was the main problem for the ducklings. I had Castle Air Force Base (five miles away from my study area) give me the temperature and dew point every two hours during the day and every three hours during the night during the months of April, May & June trying to figure if heat was the key factor that caused the problem. (By the way I was web-tagging day old ducklings during this three year period and tagged 96% of the tolal hatch.) As it turned out, it did not always happen during hot spells but during very nice mild weather. So I don't know if my findings would be considered scientific, but it made some kind of sense to me. Steve Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 21:05:15 -0700 Hi, - June 26 - Have 3 new eggs in second WEBL nesting. Parents not incubating, but go in sometimes. It's been raining and scorching weather alternately. First egg 6/20, 3rd egg about 6/23-4. How long do eggs remain viable if parents don't sit? Causes for abandonment in non-predator/pest area? Leah, CA Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 08:23:13 -0400 If it is too hot, the mother may be sitting on the eggs only at night. Eggs will remain good (so I heard recently) for up to 2 weeks. I think patience is in order in this case! Fawzi ----- Original Message ----- ... Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 10:01:55 -0400 Joyce, central Virginia Hi All, We have a nest of bluebirds, that had 5 eggs. Friday 3 hatched, Saturday 1 hatched and 1 remains unhatched. I have never had one not hatch in my 5 brief years of experience, although I know it happens from discussions on here. My question is, should I try to remove the egg? Will the parents remove it after a time? Is there still time for it to hatch? I wouldn't want it to go bad in there and hurt the remaining clutch. Thanks for any help. Joyce Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:41:10 -0400 ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- Hi Joyce and All: Since your clutch has an uneven hatching schedule, I would leave the unhatched egg in the nest for the next 5 or 6 days, then remove it. By then, too, the nestlings are not as fragile. Often, the unhatched egg is left by the monitor but I am usually concerned about contamination (salmonella, etc.) Betty Nichols, Middletown, MD Joyce, central Virginia ... Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 08:05:04 -0700 (PDT) Hi Joyce..Last year I experienced this..5 EABL eggs laid & 4 hatched roughly
in the same day. The next day I noticed the 1 unhatched egg still there. I did
nothing. The next couple days the 1 egg wasn't there. So I assumed either of the
following 2 possibilies. The 1 egg left, finally did hatch, but the chick
(probably runt) died & the parents removed it..or maybe the parents removed the
unhatched egg before I looked in the box the next day. I think the 1st situation
happened. I eventually confirmed that there were 4 nestlings in there after a
couple weeks. The exact same thing happened with 1 of my TUTI boxes this year.
One of the eggs was late in hatching & I found a dead runt nestling just beneath
the hole & I removed it. In another TUTI box I noticed a live runt nestling just
beneath the hole & I gently pushed it back in. It ended up surviving...Hope this
helps...Horace in NC. **************************************************--- ... Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:36:48 -0500 This clutch of 5 hatched June 14, 15, and 16 and I was concerned if the last one would be ready to go when the first ones were. Yesterday evening at 7:30 I checked the box and they were gone and I heard them in the trees above the box. I heard and saw the mama and papa and the babies. They must have just left the box as the mama divebombed me when I went toward the box. That meant the first ones stayed longer until the younger ones were ready. I kept close tabs on them and they all stretched their necks with equal strength and seem to all have enormous appetites. What a thrill to see them up in the trees. Evelyn Cooper Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:49:00 -0500 Hi all, noticed my BB parents building again in their previous nestbox and one blue egg in it today. In another box about 25 feet away another nest is under construction - it, too, is made of grass, but it's messy and is beginning to acquire a grass "ceiling" with bits sticking out of the box, similar to those I've seen HOSP build in the past (but those nests were mostly twigs). Q1: Do BBs ever build a domed nest of grass? Do wrens? TRES? Chickadees (I've seen them enter this box before)? If indeed it's a HOSP nest, should I remove the nest, or leave it and pin the eventual eggs? Will that keep the HOSP busy long enough to let the BBs brood and fledge their new bunch? If I remove it and it *is* a HOSP nest, will they simply build another or do I increase the chance of the HOSP finding and invading the BB nest? Q2: I know what BB nests look like, but what are the obvious differences among HOSP, wren and TRES nests? Is there a URL with pix? Q3: How can I tell if it's a white BB egg or another species with white eggs? Again, does anyone have pix online? TIA, everyone. Su Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:52:50 -0400 Su, and BLUEBIRD-L, When I see a nest with a a 'roof' or 'ceiling', as you describe, and the entrance in the side near the hole, I usually find that it's a House Sparrow. Twigs say just one thing, - House Wren. Green moss says Chickadee. White feathers say Tree Swallow. If it's a House Sparrow I would probably destroy nest, eggs, and nestlings, and keep destroying them until they gave up. Some folks believe, however, that active destruction causes "revenge attacks" on Bluebirds, etc. And some don't like to destroy any bird whatsoever. I have tried puncturing the HOSP eggs with a common pin and letting her go on sitting. (passive control) This prevents hatching and prevents "revenge attacks", but allows the sparrows to go on raising successive generations, which is the last thing we need. I'm not trying to stir up the "Passive Control" people. We've been through that. I'm just explaining what I do, or WOULD do if the situation arose. Luckily I see very few House Sparrows where I am, and I consider myself blessed. Bruce Burdett, NH Bluebird Conspiracy, Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:07:43 -0400 If you have a white egg maybe it is a TRES. The TRES will make a dome. If you did not have a white egg I would say it is a HOSP. Let us know about it. Maynard Sumner NABS OBS MBRP OBC NAHC NAFC -----Original Message----- ... Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:51:38 -0400 I have a pair of bluebirds who are on their 3rd brood and none of the eggs Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 10:48:44 EDT Hello! I have a bluebird box which I put up in March 2001 and one family of five Eastern Bluebirds has already been successfully raised in the box! About three weeks after the first brood fledged, the same or another pair of adults built another nest in the same box and laid four eggs. The last egg was laid on 6/3/01 - five weeks ago today. The eggs have not hatched, but the parents still visit the nest many times during each day. The eggs seem to be fine and the nest is not infested with any parasites. I don't see the female staying on the nest, but I'm not certain that she doesn't. The adults are obviously still protective of the nest and eggs as they "dive-bomb" me whenever I check the nest! All the information I find says that eggs take a maximum of 18 days to hatch in most cases, but that the female will often sit on them much longer before abandoning the nest. My question is how long should I leave things as they are without intervening? I would LOVE to be able to watch another brood raised this year and have only the one box, but I also do NOT want to interfere with the natural order of things. If anyone has any ideas or suggestions, I would love to hear them. TIA! Roberta Wade Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 13:56:37 EDT Hi... Have had a house up for some time and are on our second batch. We think that the father may have gotten killed (haven't seen him at all, and found blue feathers near dogwood tree in yard). Mother is doing fine (better after investing in mealworms/feeder), but only 2 of 4 eggs have hatched (the 2 hatched 4-5 days ago). Any ideas on this, behavior issues on the mother's part (hatching in shifts?). Would think that if the eggs are bad, they would have been removed. Thanks Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:07:55 -0400 Haleya Priest AMherst MA Dale and Jackie, Some infertile or damaged eggs are removed while others are not. I've found
eggs intact after all the babies have fledged! At other times, the infertile
eggs Since they've been sitting for 4-5 days now, I'd say chances are pretty darn good they aren't going to hatch and I would remove them. Keep your mom supplied with mealworms and you have a good chance of fledging those surviving babies! Good luck! :-) H DStoutj"at"aol.com wrote: Hi... ... Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 00:14:32 -0400 (EDT) Dale & Jackie, If eggs don't hatch the Bluebirds do not remove them. Generally unhatched eggs will remain in the box even after fledge. It is suggested that we remove infertile eggs so in case they break the nest isn't contaminated. Seems you have waited long enough for these eggs to hatch since others have hatched over a week ago. Gently remove them. Joe Huber Venice Fl. Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 21:30:27 -0500 The BB are on their 4th brood. Early this morning, I peaked inside today and found some very young babies (2 weeks) and at least one unhatched egg. It is unusual to find unhatched eggs among the young. I did not stay long, and mother and father came shortly thereafter with food for the young. Could they be feeding the hatched ones and laying new eggs at the same time in the same box? I am curious. Sharon in Waco, Texas (central Texas) ----- Original Message ----- Can anyone in the upper Midwest tell me whether wrens are still Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 00:01:00 -0400 (EDT) Hi Sharon, The unhatched egg must be one that didn't hatch. Bluebirds have not been known to lay eggs while young birds are in nest. This unhatched egg can be removed any time now. Joe Huber Venice, Fl. Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 23:35:37 -0400 (EDT) Hi Pam, When in Ohio there were more Bluebird nests with 4 eggs than any other number. I would call this normal. The 5 and 6 egg nests seem to be by older experienced birds. This could vary in different areas. Joe Huber Venice, Fl. Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:41:59 Joe Schultz I hear there is a Peterson nestbox in the southern part of the state with nine Bluebird eggs in it.My nest box is not a Peterson but it now has eight Bluebird eggs in it. One egg vanished.Both boxes are locked with phillip-head screws. From: "Joanne and John Kirk" jkirk777"at"ocsnet.net John Kirk, Springville, CA I have a trail of bluebird houses (20) that are built following the dimensions given by John Terres in "Songbirds in your Garden". While there is some variation in the houses, most are close to his suggested dimensions. Some are natural (unpainted), some are dark green and others are brown. All have drilled vent holes in the bottoms and under the eaves. Most have unintentional ventilation due to poor craftsmanship. They are all mounted 6 feet up on telephone poles along a road. Nearly all the houses face the east with the pole on the westside. Summer temperatures here reach over 105 F in the mid to late summer but are mild in the early nesting season...last year was a normal year. Western Bluebirds and Tree Swallow use the houses with the exception of one that a pair of Acorn Woodpeckers that modified a hosue to suit themselves. I had slowly built up to my present number of houses over the past 4 years. Having written all this, my questions is about unhatched eggs and dead chicks. My granddaughters helped me clean out the boxes over the recent holidays. About half of the houses had unhatched eggs (2-4) and several had skeletons of chicks. That seems high to me? Most of the unhatched eggs were white and I assume from the Swallows, others were typical of Bluebirds. In the past I have never found this in any of the houses. There doesn't seem to be pattern associated with house design or color. Got any suggestions? Thanks...John Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 18:50:24 -0800 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Monitoring boxes and keeping detailed log books helps us understand what is
taking place in our nestboxes. How often did you monitor your boxes during the
active season? Did you notice a correlation of date or weather conditions with
your unhatched eggs? ... Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 08:08:42 -0600 At 05:42 PM 1/8/02 -0800, Joanne and John Kirk wrote: ... The number of unhatched eggs in my nestboxes varies from year to year. The worst rate I had was in second clutches in nestboxes in the full sun. Inspection of a few of the eggs showed them to be nearly hard-boiled! (I took those boxes down and now all nestboxes have well-insulated roofs or are in the shade during the afternoon.) I also know the hatch rate can also vary due to cold and other factors such
as the female not spending enough time sitting on the eggs due to disturbances
or perhaps having to hunt harder than normal for her own food. Kate Oschwald From: "Pauline, Mountain City TX" bluebirds"at"austin.rr.com Earlier this week Keith Kridler (my friend & mentor) replied "Pauline reports only one egg hatching because of the really cold temperatures during incubation. ... Pauline can break the unhatched eggs in a week or so to determine if they were fertile (should contain a partially formed chick) or infertile (simply a rotten liquid egg.) What are some suggestions on how to retrieve the 4 unhatched eggs? The eggs are in a Gilbertson-style PVC nestbox with the nestling that is now about one-week old. There's a method used in boxes constructed of lumber that I've considered: use a long-handled teaspoon to scoop and remove egg. I'm not comfortable that I could bring four unhatched eggs to the surface using this method. ALSO, would there be danger of one of these unhatched egg bursting open later if I save an egg for "show & tell". (I'm aware that it's illegal to possess eggs without a permit.) Pauline Tom From: TomGaryH"at"aol.com Pauline asks: What are some suggestions on how to retrieve the 4 unhatched eggs? The eggs
are in a Gilbertson-style PVC nestbox with the nestling that is now How about using one of those scoop gizzys that are used to make mellon balls? Bending the scoop end nearly 90 degrees to the shank/handle ought to do it. Tom in Milton FL Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 09:36:29 -0600 At 06:59 AM 3/16/02 -0600, you wrote: ... Although many recommend removing unhatched eggs, especially in our heat, I have never done so, being fearful of breaking them in the removal process. (I had not heard about using an iced tea spoon). I always found the unhatched eggs intact when the babies left the nest. Maybe I'm just lucky! :-) At this time of year, heat would certainly not be a factor. Several people swear by the iced teaspoon method, but the round shape of the PVC nestbox does not give you a corner to roll the egg up. When you remove the eggs, either now or after fledging, the retrieved eggs are unlikely to burst--they dry up as they age. I have decorated chicken eggs by the traditional Ukrainian method, which for traditional/religious reasons does NOT involve blowing the egg but using whole raw eggs. If there is a flaw in the shell they will ooze their contents after the process is completed, since the nest to last step involves melting wax on the surface with a candle. These flawed eggs are quickly disposed of. They are stored/displayed at room temperature and do not burst--the decorated eggs actually get lighter and lighter as the contents dry. People have kept them for years--they are true artistic treasures if you've ever seen one. Kate Oschwald From: TonyTrz"at"aol.com Hi Everybody! Here in PA we're having a cold snap, but thanks to all the great ideas I've learned about from this email list, my bluebird pair plus an extra male are eating mealworms and bluebird banquet and seem to be deciding which box to build in. Good luck to all with their bluebirds. From: "emcooper" emcooper"at"bayou.com I remember a post last year during nesting season telling us that we should remove the eggs after about four or five days past time for hatching and that they had an experience with one where the egg broke and the fledgling in the nest had his legs and feet glued together. I always remove the eggs after the time has past for them to hatch. Evelyn Cooper ----- Original Message ----- ... From: Snwwitelady"at"aol.com Susan Bulger, Fullerton, CA Last summer one clutch included an egg that was about 2/3 the size of a normal bluebird egg. At that time I had not heard that the small eggs are infertile. This small egg did not hatch and after a few days I gently tried to determine if the egg was still in the nest with the chicks. Didn't want to touch them very much so I was not thorough and did not locate the egg and concluded that the parents removed it. Then after the fledge I saw that the egg had broken and part of the shell was glued to the nest with the sharp side up so that the chicks had to lay on it the whole time. With this experience, I plan to make sure that there is no egg remaining in the nest with the chicks after about five days. From: Jgandy8580"at"aol.com At this time of the year, especially, I try to put out crushed egg shells to provide a source of calcium for the birds. I have no experience of any exceptional need or use of this by the bluebirds, but it may be of help to them. I found that blue jays consumed 90% of what I put out, and did so all year long, not just at nesting time. When I had the nursery and 40-50 boxes, as soon as I saw the bluebirds had selected a box, I put a ring of about 10 five foot bamboo stakes around the house, varying from 10-20 feet from the house. Like most non-swallows, bluebirds seem to prefer to go to the house indirectly, in stages. Of course, they can use these to search for ground insects also. When I started 25 years ago here in south Jersey there was only one identified nesting pair here. I got my first pair in 3rd year. Now there is a fairly good population. From: "judymellin" judymellin"at"netzero.net This is something that used to be part of The Cornell Nestbox Network but I believe is no longer. But that doesn't mean it is no longer a good thing to do! I use about 15 gallons of egg shells each breeding season on our 600 acre restoration site. For those who might be interested in doing this, contact me and I'll be happy to give hints on preparing the shells. Many of the "old timers" (and I use that term affectionately!) have been doing this before so it is probably easier to provide this info individually. Judy Mellin ----- Original Message ----- ... From: "Dottie, Hickory Hollow, Brown County, Indiana"
yumyumkatts"at"voyager.net I checked my Bluebird box at my church yesterday evening and it has one BB egg but it was stone cold. Felt like an ice cube. Mom wasn't in the box at 6:30pm either--so it doesn't sound good. Dottie, Hickory Hollow From: "emcooper" emcooper"at"bayou.com I had some that stayed cold several days before incubating and now I have 4 babies. I checked on two nests yesterday that had very cold eggs and they are still laying in them. Maybe your eggs will be alright. Evelyn Cooper ----- Original Message ----- ... Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 02:17:39 -0000 Hi Kim, I have had the same experience as you. They build the nest and then disappear for a while. I bet they are not far. They spent a good deal of time claiming that nest box and building the nest. I bet they would quickly defend it from any starlings that tried to enter. If you are feeding them, they are probably even closer than you think. I usually have some eggs very shortly after this inactive period. I am hoping you do as well. Good Luck Benn PA From: Shane Marcotte marco50"at"bellsouth.net I still have two unhatched eggs with two babies.Can I correctly assume that they will not hatch?What happens to them,why didnt they hatch?Should I take them out? Shane From: "Emily Smith" emilys7"at"earthlink.net From: "harold barker" haroldrev"at"webtv.net Four out of five eggs have hatched. I have four pretty little That's great, Harold! It brings up a question I have for folks on the list. We currently have a five-egg nest, and mama is incubating now. If by chance not all the eggs hatch, how do we remove the unhatched egg without harming the nestlings? Thanks! Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 21:15:51 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA Emily Smith wrote: From: "harold barker" haroldrev"at"webtv.net ... From: "Randy Jones" randyj"at"enter.net Recalling a post or two about eggshells, I spoke to the owner of our nearby diner (the Tom Sawyer), and he was happy to save me a big bucket of shells. I baked them on cookie sheets to kill all the possible salmonella, put them in a ziploc bag, rolled them with a rolling pin, and wound up with a one-quart bag of tiny pieces. These I have been putting out on old feeder platforms (see my previous post on training blues to take mealworms), and intend to do so at each of my 15 paired sites. Someone suggested that it helps the hens with their need for calcium in order
to make the shells of their eggs. Randy Jones Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 19:14:51 -0700 (PDT) Hello all, Is anyone aware of any correlation between nestbox size and # of eggs laid?.
That is, I have a nestbox that is 5" X 5" or 25 sq. inches which has had many
broods of 6 EABL and two broods with 7 eggs. Nestboxes with 20 square inches or
less seem to have broods of 5 and ocassionally 6. Is this just coincidence here
on my trail?. Have a good day Bob Sitarski a.k.a The Doctor Jackson County Indiana ( 385244N 086023W ) & Clay County Illinois ( 384008N 0882908W ) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:25:06 -0700 (PDT) This is year 2 for me with one bluebird house in my backyard... Last year I had 2 clutches -- first one had 3 eggs and 1 hatched; 2nd clutch had 4 eggs and 3 hatched. This year, the bluebired pair built a nest and there were 5 eggs! (I can't tell if it's the same pair -- for some reason, I don't think it is, but that probably doesn't matter) Day 14 for incubation was this past Sunday so I checked the house, and low and behold, one little baby bluebird arrived. So, I checked the house on Monday (24 hours later), and still 4 eggs and 1 baby bird. I checked the house yesterday and still only one baby. Is it likely any of the other eggs will hatch? I'm not so concerned with taking the eggs out, as last year I left the unhatched ones in the house and it didn't cause problems. This little one is actually resting on one of the eggs, so I don't want to disrupt the house. But, is it common for only one of 5 eggs to hatch? I guess the other way to ask that question is, how frequently does an entire clutch hatch? I was hoping for 5 baby bluebirds -- but of course, I'm still happy with one! The environment is exactly the same as last year, with the exception of an annoying mockingbird who is wreaking havoc on my bluebird pair. That shouldn't impact the hatching, though. I did move the food/mealworms from the house to a nearby tree, which is what the mockingbirds are after. Thanks for any input. Kathy From: bluebirdlist"at"netscape.net It went down to 28 degrees last nite and my BB's haven't started incubating yet...will the eggs be ok?? Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 09:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Hi Haleya & all, Several posts on cold weather and it's effect on unincubated eggs. I know that Haleya had early egg laying too and I agreed to inform her of my hatchling results. The earliest first EABL egg I have witnessed was this year on March 27th when it was still quite cool. Only 3 eggs were laid in that clutch as the weather turned bitterly cold beginning March 30th. One egg hatched and he/she is doing fine even showing some early blue lately. One of the other eggs showed no indication of life within whereas the last egg had a small crack where a chick had tried, but failed to exit the egg. On my Indiana trail the first EABL egg layed was April 2nd and it was still cold reaching low's in the mid 20's until the 5th of April. That first Indiana nest had 5 eggs which hatched this past weekend. I could tell that there are at least 4 hatchlings in there this past weekend. I will try to get a better count this coming weekend if the weather is warm.
It appears that I have conflicting results from those first nests therefore it's
hard to draw a conclusion. However, I know that the Indiana trail experienced
temperatures several degrees colder than the Illinois trail did on average. In
addition, I know that the Indiana Blue was an experienced Ma. She winters and
remains at my house all year and has laid her first egg on April 2 nd for three
years in a row. Maybe she knew how to handle the cold. I know absolutely about
the EABL pair in Illinois. Have a good day Bob Sitarski a.k.a The Doctor Jackson County Indiana ( 385244N 086023W ) & Clay County Illinois ( 384008N 0882908W ) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 14:16:53 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA bluebirdlist"at"netscape.net wrote: It went down to 28 degrees last nite and my BB's haven't started From: "greenacres001" greenacres001"at"msn.com that's so cool about the white eggs, kerry! can anyone tell me how to tell HOSP eggs from Western bluebirds? i certainly don't want to be pinholing the wrong ones! thanks, linda hiller in jacks valley, nevada ----- Original Message ----- ... Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:32:15 -0400 I just this afternoon discovered a HOSP nest with 4 eggs in one of my trail boxes. Just one week ago, there was no sign of nest or eggs in that box. The HOSP eggs are a mottled light brown and white, about the same size as bluebird eggs. I shook them all vigorously and returned them to the nest to avoid sending the HOSP on his killing spree. Will take a trap with me on the next trip... Pam in Harford County, Maryland ... From: "greenacres001" greenacres001"at"msn.com thanks, pamela, for your response. does shaking the eggs vigorously do any good? linda hiller in northern nevada ----- Original Message ----- ... To: bluebird-l"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L) ... The eggs are oval to long-oval. Shell smooth, slight gloss. White, greenish white; dotted, spotted with grays, browns. Maynard Sumner NABS MBS GAS OBS OBC NAHC NAFC Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:39:53 EDT what do HOSP eggs look like? I'm assuming the bluebird eggs are just solid blue. HOSP eggs are sort of a dirty greenish tan with heavy brown speckles. Yes, bluebird eggs are blue. From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber) It is common for all 5 bluebird eggs to hatch. This being early in the year with unstable weather it is common for many eggs not to hatch. You will likely have a better hatch rate during the next nesting. As for removing unhatched eggs, there was an article last year about them being a danger to young bird if one was broken . Generally the eggs just lay there until you remove the nest. It will not bother the birds if you remove them. joe Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber hubertrap"at"webtv.net http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL
http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds 27.1171494 N Lo -82.4124222 W Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:57:32 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA I don't know what it is this year but I have THREE nestboxes in a row with SIX eggs - plus another nest of SIX down my trail. Are others finding 6 egged nests this year??? :-) H Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:08:07 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA Hi Doc, sounds like the cold affected the egg that was cracked. I have heard that the cold can sometimes affect the inner liner and the baby needs help getting out once it is ready. Perhaps someone can tell us how to do that. I haven't had to do that yet. If you still have the other egg, hold it up to a light and see if it is
hollow. We don't know if it was fertile or not.. :-) H The Doctor wrote: Hi Haleya & all, ... From: "Kromel, Terri" tkromel"at"state.pa.us Haleya and all, I have/had a nest of 6 eggs in my backyard this year. She had 6 eggs until this past weekend. When I checked the box, one egg was gone. But, last night when I checked the box she had 5 hatchlings. Terri Kromel -----Original Message----- Haleya Priest Amherst MA Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:41:31 -0500 At 02:33 PM 4/24/02 -0700, greenacres001 wrote: p.s. i piggybacked this question onto another e-mail which sometimes House sparrow eggs are about the size of bluebird eggs, but are cream colored with brown speckles on them. The "cream" color can vary somewhat from somewhat pinkish to somewhat bluish. The eggs of many native species are similar to house sparrow eggs at first glance, so be certain of the species before taking action! Kate Oschwald From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber) Hi Mary sue and all, The Bluebird egg that appears to be cracked can be removed after being sure you are seeing a crack. Your female Bluebird should also return, scaring her out of the box generally doesn't;t cause abandonment. She should return even with a missing egg. Many times the female will remain on the nest when the box is opened. It gives you a rush when one flies out while opening the box. Female could have cracked the egg in fast exit. Things should be ok and nest should continue. Hang in there. Joe Huber Venice Fl. Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL
http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds 27.1171494 N Lo -82.4124222 W Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 12:07:46 -0700 (PDT) Hi all, First, 1 out of 5 EABL egg has not hatched. The nestlings are 4 days old and all but cover the unhatced egg, If the egg breaks it could cause problems for the nestlings and nestbox as a hole. Do you typically remove the unhatched egg?. This nest is almost 8 feet high. I can see the egg with my extended mechanics mirror however, I think that it might be tough to pick the egg out of the nest. Second, I have two ground traps, today I had a male HOSP trapped in one and a female trapped in the other.. A half dozen cats had the traps surrounded. Obviously I can't or would'nt get rid of the cats. I have added curtains to one of the traps to hide from view the trapped bird from the cats. I really believe that instead of trapping 1 or 2 HOSP per week in ground traps, I could catch a dozen or more per week if I knew how to keep the cats away Third, a HOSP nest had two eggs which the female HOSP was incubating. I
removed 1 egg and put it in the freezer for about 16 hours. Today, I went to the
nestbox to do the switch. Well she was in the nestbox incubating the one egg.
She was smart, I had a bag over the hole then over the front face of the
nestbox. I slapped the side of the box and nothing. She flew out when I removed
the bag to do the egg switch. I will do things differently next time. Anyway, if
an egg is uncovered in the freezer for 16 hours, is the egg now lifeless?.. Bob Sitarski a.k.a The Doctor Jackson County Indiana ( 385244N 086023W ) & Clay County Illinois ( 384008N 0882908W ) Date: Sat, 04 May 2002 13:20:43 -0500 At 12:07 PM 5/2/02 -0700, you wrote: Hi all, ... Even in the heat here in Texas I have gotten away with leaving the egg in the nest. I haven't had any break and found them intact after the babies fledged. Some people have had eggs break in the nest and cause problems, so I will probably remove them in the future. But in your case I would think the risk of breaking the egg while trying to remove it would be pretty high, so I would probably leave this one. Kate Oschwald Bluebird Eggs (Part 4) |
BEST OF BLUEBIRD_L CLASSIFIEDS HOME | Audubon Society of Omaha | The Bluebird Box | Bluebird FAQs | Search | Contact meAll material was originally posted on the Bluebird_L or Bluebird mailing list, and has been reposted here with slight modifications to make the posts more readable in an HTML format. In cases in which quoted material has been deleted to save space, this is indicated by an ellipsis (...)For more information about Bluebird_L, check out http://www.cit.corn.edu/cit-pubs/email/using-lists/index.htm. If you wish to contact the author of a post, you will need to edit the e-mail address, replacing "at" with the "at" symbol (above the number 2 on your keyboard). (This change was made to discourage spammers.)If you are the author of a posting and would like to see a particular post (or posts) removed from these web pages, please contact me with the web page address, title of post, and date and time of the post(s), and I will remove whatever material you like. If you have a different opinion from one posted here, you need not contact me, as often I will have a different opinion too. The intent is to try and provide both sides to the issues facing bluebirders, and to do so in an impartial and objective manner.If you have problems, encounter broken links (unless they are within an e-mail thread, as I do not maintain those links), or have suggestions on how the site can be improved to make it more useful, please contact the Best of Bluebird-L Classifieds webmaster.Website design by
Chimalis
|
