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Cleaning out old nests (Part 3)From: "Stan, St. Paul, MN [44.444N, -93.106W]" stan1bb"at"frontiernet.net Hello EveryBIRDie: For winter roosting of birds -- bluebirds, chickadees, etc., if one does NOT have a clean nest, as mentioned in Keith's posting, what is best for bottom of nestbox, to make nestbox warm in winter (in addition to "plugging" summer ventilation holes) and more easily cleaned next Spring -- sawdust, pine needles, newspaper, bark chips, or what??? Thanks! Happy "roosting!" Stan ************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith & Sandy Kridler kridler"at"1starnet.com ... Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 00:03:03 -0400 ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Stan, St. Paul, MN [44.444N, -93.106W]" stan1bb"at"frontiernet.net Hi All: Since most cavity-nesters are already familiar with pine needles the birds will be more apt to accept pine needles for roosting. I find that the soiled needles can be easily removed from the box without disturbing the entire supply. It also gives us an idea of whether or not the box is being used as the feces are easy to see. Betty Nichols, Middletown, MD Hello EveryBIRDie: ... From: "emcooper" emcooper"at"bayou.com I think I read on the List a few months back that you can put foil on the bottom of the nestbox to keep out the cold air. Does anyone remember reading this? I plan to do this since I did find that one of my nestboxes had been used by bluebirds last year. Evelyn Cooper ... Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 09:20:38 -0400 ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- Hi Evelyn & All: Glad you mentioned the foil in bottom of box. Seems I read that too. Will put that in bottom before placing dried pine needles on top. Thanks! Betty Nichols, Middletown, MD I think I read on the List a few months back that you can put foil on the ... From: DStoutj"at"aol.com Hi there... We had Bluebirds all last year with great success, but when we put up the box this year, we've had bluebirds fly in to the box and then leave, with no signs of nesting... Any ideas?? Should the box be immaculately clean or cleaned with something other than water??? Please reply to me directly in addition to the list.... Thanks From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com Dale, From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com Dale, My Message was unclear. I clean out the boxes AFTER EACH CLUTCH leaves, not at the end of the summer. Bruce Burdett From: "College Town" collegetown"at"I-55.com Hi. I am the one who did not have the actual top lift birdhouse feeder so I was only able to watch from a far. I am going to put up a different feeder. When should I remove the nest? Saturday for the 1st time I saw 2 baby heads peeking out at me. Very cute. By Sunday, no activity. No mom or dad feeding them and no cute little heads looking back. What should I do? Kim Peterman Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:24:57 -0400 It sounds like your babies have fledged. However, you didn't mention how LONG the parents hadn't been around. They'll often stop feeding just before fledging. However, you'll often see the babies poking their heads out and much of their bodies before they fledge... There is no hurry to remove the nest, so if you haven't seen the parents or babies for a good day, then I'd say open the nest box and remove the nest. Best of luck! :-) H College Town wrote: Hi. I am the one who did not have the actual top lift birdhouse ... From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber) Hi Kim, Sounds like the birds have fledged. ARE you referring to a nest box when you say feeder? If the birds have left the nest they will not use it any further so you can remove the old nest material. You need to include a way to open this box to see inside,or replace it with one that opens. The heads you seen sticking out the entrance were likely the young getting ready to fly from the box. If you no longer see ant heads sticking out they have likely flew from the nest. They could be near by in heavy cover and hard to see. If the adults are still around you can watch them and see where they take food as they continue to feed the young for many more days. Your help has added some new Bluebirds to help in their survival. Keep it up and get boxes you can monitor after this. Joe Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds 27.1171494 N Lo -82.4124222 W From: "Carole" cas"at"att.net Hi All, Is it the general idea that bluebirds appreciate it if we remove their old nest? Would they rather start fresh or do they re-use their nest? (I saw them remove fecal sacs from their box after all the babies had left, as if they were cleaning it out) I went out earlier and removed their nest but now am feeling guilty, as it was perfectly clean and had one little unhatched blue egg. the inside of the box is spotless, too. I've set the nest in the garage in case I ever need a spare nest, or in case I should put it back? I hate to think I'm making her start all over if they were going to use the same nest again :( Carole http://mountainwolfcove.com From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com Carole, et al, From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber) Hi Carole, Even if the BLUebirds were to reuse the old nest they would reline the nest cup with new material. You have not hurt any thing by removing the old nest. Thats the way I done it for 26 years and had plenty of success. Some times the Bluebirds would rebuild before I got back to clean out the old nest. They will at times build an entire new nest on top of the old one. Don't worry about removing a used nest. Joe Huber Venice, Fl. Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL
http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds 27.1171494 N Lo -82.4124222 W To: bluebird-l"at"cornell.edu On Tue, 7 May 2002 22:29:56 -0400 (EDT) hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber) ... And some times if the Bluebird make a new nest on top of the old nest it will be too high and some thing will get the eggs or babies. Maynard Sumner NABS MBS GAS OBS OBC NAHC NAFC. Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 16:04:02 -0500 At 01:59 PM 5/7/02 -0400, Carole wrote: ... "My" birds seem to wait until the nest is cleaned out before re-using the nestbox. Regardless of the birds' preferences, building one nest atop another can place the eggs and young too close to the entrance hole where they could be snatched out by a predator, so I will continue to clean out the nestbox immediately after fledging. Kate Oschwald From: "Ernie Tucker" ernie724"at"citlink.net Clear DayWe had our first fledglings leave the nest Sunday. I cleaned the old nest out immediately, and last evening the male BB showed up to inspect the box. He looked in three times, going in once - and going to a perch between visits. This morning, both BBs showed up and did a survey of the box, seemed to consider it, did a resurvey and then left. I hope I got the box cleaned to their satisfaction!! Is this too earlyfor them to be starting another nest? On another subject - I have been putting a link to my bird and bluebird pictures in my signature _ I hope that's not against the rules! - and it was called to my attention that I left the "s" off nestlings, so the link didn't work. Speaking of pictures, I hope to have pictures back today of the last batch of BBs, including one of a fledging in flight leaving the box - I HOPE. I'll let you know if I do - and where to find it!! Ernie & Jane Tucker From: TomGaryH"at"aol.com Bea and Others, In my 02-05-22 09:21:03 EDT Bluebird-L post I wrote (in part): However, it is generally a good idea to remove the nest and discard it in an area far, far away from the nestbox. Let me offer some reasoning for nest removal between nestings that I failed to include in the post. It is generally a good idea to remove the nest because renesting bluebirds will build a nest over the old one. This would put eggs and nestlings closer to the entrance hole where they could be snatched by predatory birds. Since life in the wild may depend on fractions of an inch, removing a used nest between nestings is a good procedure. My reasoning for discarding a used nest far away from the nestbox is to do what I can do to prevent predators from being attracted to the nestbox. A scented nest on the ground may radiate scent close to the ground whereas a scented nest in a nestbox, nearly six feet or more above the ground may have its scent carried away on the breezes above the noses of some potential predators. Tom Heintzelman ----------------- Backyard Nestbox Landlord Milton, Santa
Rosa County, FL (western panhandle, inland) U.S.A. From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com Stan, et al, Sometimes, of course, I don't know precisely WHEN they leave, since they're scattered all over the township. But I try to keept track of their departure as closely as I can. 'A propos' of nothing, I have added a few more sites, and I now monitor 35 (70 houses), all in Sunapee, but none in my yard. Bruce Burdett, SW NH From: "Pam Tellier" wknight"at"erols.com What is the best thing to use to clean the inside of the houses. Also is there anything that can be applied to outside to make older houses more waterproof. Pam in MD From: "Doug Rohde" d.rohde"at"attbi.com Pam, We use a spatula to remove the old nest, a whisk broom to clean out debris and a screwdriver to clear drainage slots. We then spray the inside with water mixture of orange oil (1oz/gallon of water) and natural (NOT swimming pool) diatomaceous earth. The orange oil serves as a natural contact insecticide for any "critters" still in the nestbox and the diatomaceous earth acts serves as bit longer lasting insecticide for any new "critters". When we remember, we soap the inside of the roof for wasps. Cracks and leaking joints in the nestbox can be sealed with caulking compound. Doug Bluebirds across Texas ... one nestbox at a time ----- Original Message ----- ... From: The2girdlers"at"aol.com Hello All, Bruce and Cheryl From: Golfgrate"at"aol.com Hello My four fledglings left the nest over 2 weeks ago. The following week, I removed the nest and cleaned out the nestbox. I used a disinfectant that I also use for my birdbaths. Since then, I've had a few visits by the BB's but no nesting activity. Could the disinfectant be discouraging them from rebuilding, although it has no apparent scent? Was the nest removed too soon? I have seen both male and female, on occasion visiting the nestbox but no construction started. Thanks, From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber) Hi Gary, You need to give them more time,as hey are still busy feeding It,s the young that just fledged. Many times its in the third week after fledging that they show interest in renesting. Joe huber Venice, Fl. Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL
http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds 27.1171494 N Lo -82.4124222 W From: Golfgrate"at"aol.com ... From: "Randy Jones" randyj"at"enter.net Some take it out, some don't. I take the old nest out, and clean the nestbox with a mild solution of clorox, assuming there will have been blowflies from the first nesting. If there were and the old nest stays in, you may have an infestation which will be bad for the nestlings. Randy Jones ive fleged 3 blues myfirst year From: "College Town" collegetown"at"I-55.com Should the nestbox be cleaned with anything? I had a rotten egg in the nestbox. It was not cracked but I also had 3 nestlings die in that box. One successfully fledged yesterday. I am wandering if the egg had anything to do with the deaths. I removed the nest this morning. The bottom of the nest and box were a little damp. I just wandered if I should do more than just remove the nest. Thanks for your input. Kim From: "Doug Rohde" d.rohde"at"attbi.com I normally remove the nest. The pair may very well build again on top of the old nest, putting it abnormally high with respect to the entrance hole, making it more accessible to predators. I usually sweep out the nesting material with a whisk broom and then spray with a water solution with a small amount of orange oil (1 oz/gal) & natural diatomaceous earth (NOT swimming pool grade) for insect control. Doug Bluebirds across Texas .... one nestbox at a time ... From: "Ernie Tucker" ernie724"at"citlink.net Our BB pair fledged five youngsters Saturday. Yesterday I removed the old nest and turned the box upside down and then opened the front door and blasted it with the garden hose, leaving it open to dry in the sun. I was planning on drilling some ventilation holes and drainage holes in it before I turned it right side up and got it ready for the next nesting. Bright and early this morning I saw the couple inspecting what must have seemed the destruction of their home. Daddy went in and inspected for a couple minutes, then Mom went in and did the same thing. Then they sat on a nearby plant hangar, seemingly discussing their loss and what they should do with this human thing that destroyed their home. I did get my holes drilled and the house reinstalled - a little lower this time so I can see in without using a ladder. But later this afternoon I saw Dad checking out the new box at the other end of the house. We'll see which one they choose for their third nesting. We hope. Ernie & Jane Tucker Crossville TN 35.887-85.021 From: Brucemac1"at"aol.com I have kept a number of boxes up this year, in which a variety of small bird roost overnight. I've kept a handful of clean woodshavings in each for roosting material. In past years, this is about the time we begin to see males BBs scouting for Spring nestboxes. I still have roosting overnight guests in some boxes. For BB use, is it advisable to keep boxes absolutely. clean and empty.? Or could I keep the woodshavings..? I keep an inch or so of the shavings in the box bottoms. Will that discourage BB's..? Bruce Macdonald SW Ontario From: KCBSP"at"aol.com In a Message dated 2/20/2003 5:19:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, I have kept a number of boxes up this year, in which a variety of ... There shouldn't be any problems with the shavings. Andy Troyer actually made a nest cup for his Troyer box he puts shavings and sawdust in. He feels that it resembles a natural cavity that way and might be more attractive to them. I really don't know if it's true, but I do know it doesn't hurt. I'd rather sleep on something soft than a wood floor :) Kathy Clark, New Cumberland, PA From: "judymellin" judymellin"at"netzero.net At one time, Cornell was studying leaving vs. removing the nest, even after a successful nesting. After all, natural cavities are never cleaned out. The feeling was that a nesting bird expended a great deal of energy rebuilding vs. refurbishing. Do anyone know if this study ever resulted in any conclusions? I would have no trouble leaving a bluebird nest as I find them to be exceedingly clean, even after fledging. I would never leave a tree swallow nest, though, as their housekeeping habits are more like mine and things tend to be much dirtier. Judy Mellin ... Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 08:31:11 -0500 In the past, I have left even unused, clean nests in the nestboxes, and the boxes went unoccupied for weeks. Every time I removed an unused nest, a pair of bluebirds took up housekeeping within a day or two. They seemed to prefer a clean cavity. Since there is always a lot of debris (mostly feather sheaths) under the nest, I always remove a nest after the babies have fledged and brush out the inside (placing everything in a plastic grocery bag to carry away to avoid attracting any predators). In natural cavities, they may simply look for another nest site, possibly in the same tree, rather than re-use a dirty one. This may be one reason why many monitors observe a pair move to another nestbox for a second nesting attempt--they can maintain the same territory while using a different cavity. In our artificial cavities, we can give them a decent starting place with very little effort. In many cases there is no other nestbox within their territory, so it may be one way of encouraging them to nest again. Kate Arnold At 12:53 PM 5/22/03 -0700, judymellin wrote: ... From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"tds.net Kate, Robert, Judy, Haleya, et al, So I regularly clean out the whole mess and dispose of it, and brush and
scrape the inside of the box carefully to remove all the leftover debris and
filth. The adults are often building a clean new nest very quickly. ... From: "emcooper" emcooper"at"bayou.com They will roost in it whether there is material or not. The general rule when you are cleaning it out for another nesting is to remove all the material. When we prepare our nestboxes for roosting, we put foil plus a little layer of straw, but do clean it all out when nesting season comes. I am reading some posts about conflicting views about removing nests. I think there may be a little misunderstanding about it. If a nest seems to have been abandoned (not used, or even maybe eggs in it) that is when we wait for quite a period of time before removing the nest. Even thought Bluebirds will build over a used nest, most recommend to clean it out immediately after the babies fledge. They seem to prefer a clean nestbox. This year, I had a pair to re-work one that was abandoned (left it there for a while) and now they have 4 babies in it. All of the nests on my trail that are used are flat and have lots of debris and the nestbox is one BIG mess and I clean it all out and wash it down with mild Clorox water. They will definitely build in the same box that had a death in it. Evelyn Cooper ----- Original Message ----- ... From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas I am participating again with blowfly research this year and it gives a different slant on leaving "old nests" in your nestboxes. When I worked with Ben Pinkowski back in the 1980's we collected bird nests and placed them in rolled up paper "lunch sacks", when we got a box full we shipped them to him. Postal and delivery services REALLY complained when some of these old nests would "bloom" or have an explosion of mites hatch out and crawl through the cracks in the boxes and get on all the mail and packages near the bird nest package. John Werren in NY and Terry Whitworth in Washington recommended 1 gallon Ziploc bags for holding nests for them. Anyway I shipped a big box of nests the other day and went through them looking at nests collected over about a three week period. One chickadee nest contains about 100 dead adult blowflies and also some parasitic wasps that feed on blowfly pupa. One bag contained 100's and 100's of the tee tiny parasitic wasps but no adult blowflies that I could see....Quite a few of the birds nests contain 100's of THOUSANDS of mites that completely covered all of the sides of the gallon plastic bags.....All of the starling nests I tried to collect were so full of mites I checked them for blowflies and burned them. I could not even get their nests in the bags without getting covered in mites. Starling and House Sparrow nests were the worst for having mites in their nests (communal/flocking birds that use feathers from more communal birds in their nests). It would be interesting for some of you with tree swallows which use duck, goose and chicken feathers in their nests to gather some of their old nests and place them in Ziploc bags, wait a couple of weeks to see how many mites hatch out. Remember that the young birds cannot leave the nestboxes for almost a month after the eggs are laid so the mite population can build and build while feeding on the incubating female. There are different species of fleas, lice and mites that are present on adult birds in different parts of the country. Gather some nests and place them in tightly sealed Ziploc bags, store them in your dark garage or outdoor storage building. Check them once a week by bringing them out in normal reading light for a few hours and the insects in the bags will come to the "bright" side of the plastic bag. You might be surprised at the numbers of mites that you are "leaving" in the box when you fail to clean out an old nest! I know that no one cleans out old nests in natural cavities but we also know the difference in lice and fleas building up on wild dogs, cats and coyotes and our pets if we do not attempt a minimum of insect control! Try to imagine living in a house with 5 pets covered in fleas and ticks and not treating them for a whole year! Remember this will only be a nuisance and is natural as it probably won't kill them or you! :-))) KK From: "judymellin" judymellin"at"netzero.net I have been sending nest to Terry Whitworth for several years and mail them off at the end of the season. I have always put them in sealed plastic bags and have seen almost no "crawly things", even though the bags sit for weeks before I mail them off. Last year, we had a very extensive grassland burn and I was able to send him several nests. In addition, I used to send him nests from the boxes before he said that he had enough of those. Of the approximately 40 nests I have sent, fewer than 10% had blowflies and those that did had very small numbers. None of the grassland nests had any. As I mentioned, I have seen almost no critters at all in all the bags I've sent. Once again, this seems to be a regional thing. Judy Mellin ... From: jwick"at"tds.net Here in southern WI, I've had similar experiences to Keith when observing collected nests stored in ziploc bags. Already blowfly larva are beginning to show up under my active bluebird nests and we haven't even had any hot, humid weather yet!!!! ~Ann Wick ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ... From: "Lawrence Herbert" lherbert"at"4state.com Keith and all, as a general rule I haven't found a huge variety and numbers of organisms in used EABL nests here in Missouri and Kansas over the years. There have been exceptions of course. Some nests, almost randomly, I have collected and kept in the garage for weeks in plastic bags with not much found. Admittedly I haven't gone over them with a fine-toothed comb however. Good birding, Larry H. Joplin MO Lawrence Herbert From: "emcooper" emcooper"at"bayou.com Nancy, we clean the nest out after each nesting cycle. I also use a mild solution of Clorox water because no tenants would want to occupy it after they get through! I can't blame the birds for choosing a nice clean nestbox. What would want a flat, filthy, poop everywhere house if a clean one is available? They have let us know their preference! :) That does not mean they won't use it if no clean ones are available. Evelyn Cooper ----- Original Message ----- Gee, I'm sorry I started the thread by simply asking what could have been responsible for removing the nests from two boxes previously occupied by TUTI and BCCH that had already fledged without any indication that any bird was going to use those nests for a second go-round. I WAS going to remove the nests to make the boxes "available" since they weren't in use. I'm not sure, still, what exactly is illegal: If nests were never removed from boxes, they'd end up useless, wouldn't they? My bluebirds abandoned previous nests for clean boxes every time. Does this mean we can't clean out any birdhouse in the fall before winter descends, or take down boxes for the winter, or?? Nancy in SE Michigan From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"tds.net Nancy, et al, Bruce Burdett, SW NH ... From: "emcooper" emcooper"at"bayou.com I think you are safe saying "never" in this case. I have seen the fledglings come and sit on top of the nestbox they were hatched in and the mama was in the nestbox incubating the second clutch. I thought that was so cute! Evelyn ... From: "Louis Herrin" louish"at"gate.net Would someone kindly advise me on proper care and cleaning of next boxes after the nesting season, ie bleach, soap or what ever. I dont want to leave some smell in there to run off next years birds. Louis, South Georgai (Okefenokee) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:22:14 -0700 (PDT) I just scrape everything out with a stiff-bladed putty knife. Tony Berg - Williamsburg, VA From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"tds.net Louis. The house should be cleaned out after every fledging, not just at the end of
the season, in my opinion. Bruce Burdett, SW NH ... From: "Louis Herrin" louish"at"gate.net Thanks Folks: I have a tool that I dont remember where I got it or what it is (come from a flee market or some like place). Has a putty like knife on one end that is bent down which is great for pulling or pushing and an apex like knife on the other with a slit in it that I could use for corners. I think I agree that just a good cleaning w/o chemicals would be fine. Thanks again. Louis, S GA Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 21:37:15 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst, MA -------------------------------------------- The online Bluebird Reference Guide:
http://birds.cornell.edu/bluebirds/ ---------- ... From: "JOHN & BARBARA SIBIO" jsibio"at"northbay.com It's a good idea to clean out the nest box after each nesting. I do this with a small, stiff wire brush. I also use a putty knife for scraping the joints, and sometimes a rough sand paper. I dust the bottom of the box with diatomaceous earth, lightly,(in case there are some critters hiding) and it's good to go again. Our box stays up all year. The first year I just neglect to take it down in the fall and noticed that the birds were roosting there at night. I would see them coming out in the early morning, like beads on a string! One morning I counted seven. Now that I know they spend the winter here, I'll leave the box up for them to shelter in. Right now, we have three new chicks! Barbara in Cloverdale CA From: "emcooper" emcooper"at"bayou.com I have to wear a mask (allergies) when I clean out the nest and could never do anything to stir up dust or the mess of the nestbox. I opt for warm water and just a little Clorox. I think we should all be careful about inhaling dust from nest and nestboxes. Evelyn Cooper ----- Original Message ----- ... From: "Zimmerman, Bet" I use the dilute chlorox that comes in a spray bottle (for disinfecting sinks, etc.) and haven't noticed any smell retention. Bet from CT -----Original Message----- ... From: "judymellin" judymellin"at"netzero.net First of all, most birds have no sense of smell. Think about the kinds of things owls and turkey vultures eat! I clean my boxes because I think they are less prone to disease and/or insects that way. I take a one-quart spritz bottle and add about 1/4 cup bleach and a squirt of dishwashing liquid, then fill the bottle with water.I then spray the inside of the box and scrub it with a long-handled brush. I wear a paper mask and rubber gloves to do this. I then rinse each box with at least a gallon of water. Of the nests I have sent off for analysis, we have never had a blowfly. From: "Pamela Ford" jpford"at"comcast.net Just an FYI. Turkey Vultures have an extremely keen sense of smell, as do most carrion eaters. Although it has been accepted that many birds have limited sense of smell, research is changing established views on this. Here is a clip from National Geographic. It's quite interesting! Pam in Harford County Maryland Do birds have a sense of smell? A. Yes, and though it is highly variable from species to species, research
is leading to a higher estimation of birds' smelling abilities. According to
"Ornithology," by Dr. Frank B. Gill (W.H. Freeman & Co., 1994), sensitivity to
odors varies among orders of birds with the size of the olfactory bulb in ******** 19th-century ornithologist and painter John James Audubon might be partly responsibility for spreading the idea that smell was unimportant, said lead researcher Julie Hagelin, a behavioral biologist at Swarthmore College in Pennsylvania. The results of Audubon's experiment testing whether turkey vultures locate carrion by sight or smell were misinterpreted, she said. The birds flocked upon one deer carcass in the open, but ignored a more decomposed carcass obscured from view. "We now know they use smell to locate food," says Hagelin, "they just prefer fresher carcasses." The Audubon study began what Hagelin refers to as an "unnatural history" of birds-the assumption that they can't smell. However, in the last two decades, research has shown both that most birds have a functional sense of smell, and that they use it, like other vertebrates, to gather information. Studies have shown that Corsican blue tits pack nests with fragrant herbs to ward off parasites, and that sea birds locate nesting sites and dinner items by following their noses. Social odors, chemical signals used to pass Messages-such as, "I'm ready to mate" or "get out of my territory!"-to other individuals of the same species, have been found in fish, reptiles, amphibians, and mammals. Their absence in birds seemed surprising, said Hagelin. Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 21:34:00 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Judy, scrubbing out a nestbox after a fledge may lessen some insects and diseases but it doesn't seem to affect the presence (or absence) of blowflies. For example, boxes on my mountain trail will get blowflies. Doesn't matter if the box is a brand new on the mountain trail . . . it will get blowflies. Sample nests were sent to Terry W. for his study and all species using nestboxes on the mountain trail (so far) have had blowflies. On the other hand, boxes on the urban trail do not get blowflies--even nests
that would seem to be blowfly havens (damp feces layer) were free of blowflies.
Similar box styles, similar mounting heights, all scrubbed between fledges. One
trail gets blowflies; the other trail does not. judymellin wrote: ... From: "judymellin" judymellin"at"netzero.net And I would disagree with this. I have always scrubbed out my boxes and have never had a blowfly. So scrubbing does seem to affect the presence (or absence) of blowflies on my trail. That remains my point. Judy Mellin ... From: "Pamela Ford" jpford"at"comcast.net Judy, are there other local trails where the monitors don't scrub the boxes and blowflies are evident? Or a more scientific method would involve allocating control boxes on your trail that wouldn't be scrubbed, then checking for blowflies. Otherwise there would be no way to tie the scrubbing to the presence or absence of blowflies - no linking of cause and effect. Also, I've heard of Terry's study of blowflies for years. Have any results been published that would influence our monitoring? Let us know what you discover. I am currently in the "no scrubbing" camp, just scraping out the boxes and at times leaving them propped open for a few weeks at the end of the season. However, if scrubbing is shown to have a beneficial effect, I'd be willing to change :) Pam in Harford County, Maryland From: Evelyn Howard From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"tds.net
Evelyn, et al, If I understand your question correctly, the answer is "No", Bluebirds do not use the same nest over and over again. At the end of a nesting, after the young birds leave, the old nest is often so filthy and vermin-infested that no self-respecting parent bird would want to use it. At the very least the old nest is much flattened out and compressed. I think most bluebirders agree that the old nests should be discarded and the box cleaned out thoroughly immediately after the last fledgling departs. In my experience, if the old nest is NOT removed, the parent birds will normally either go elsewhere for their next nesting, or in a few cases they will build a new nest over the old, resulting in the "stacking" that you mention, until the box is so stuffed that it's unusable. Bluebirds seem to like new, clean, dry, well-formed nests. Typically, at the end of a nesting, the box is infested with some or all of the following: blowflies, ants, earwigs, beetles, maggots, wasps, hornets, mites, fleas, spiders, dead chicks' corpses. (Some birds, like Eagles, will reuse old nests, but they usually have to do a lot of renovation and rebuilding.) Bruce Burdett, SW NH From: Michelle Martin, shell7"at"cox.net Wondering , actually needing confirmation, as to when to clean a nest box if a partial nest is made and they did not come back to finish it. Give them what ? , a couple of weeks before cleaning it ? Wondering if that is correct ? So that maybe a new pair can come in and build , or if the original wanted to start over ? And also have chickadees checking out two of three boxes. Didn't want to discourage the chickadees, but did not want to scare off the blues either . What's the advice on this one ? And, aren't you supposed to clean out a box right after a clutch fledges ? I don't have the chickadees , a friend of mine does though, so I wasn't sure what to tell her. Any advice would be appreciated ! Thanks From:
Evelyn Cooper, emcooper"at"bayou.com Never clean out a nest that is started! I had one started in #3 January 15th. They just decided to finish it about a week ago. They do this quite often. I say let them do their thing and don't bother it. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA Member NABS Louisiana Bayou ... From: Haleya Priest, mablue"at"gis.net I agree with Evelyn, never remove a 1/2 or full or 1/4 nest from a bluebird box – especially this time of year!!! Many early nesters will start a nest and then “disappear” for a while –especially if the weather turns cool, etc. I’d wait at LEAST one month before taking a nest out. And before I did that, I would put a very thin piece of grass in the hole (prop it in the hole) and that way if you find the grass knocked out of the hole, you know you have someone visiting the nest. Also, once they build the nest they “disappear” while the female forages for bugs etc quite a bit to build up her strength to lay her eggs. This is the time of year where patience is our best friend. .. While I am on my soapbox I'd like to also add never to remove eggs from a nest during the early spring!!! This has happened to many of us - including myself where we think the nest has been abandoned. The mom was sitting for days and then she "disappeared" and the eggs are ice cold. Don't be fooled!!! Yes, sometimes they've abandoned ship, but often -especially if the weather has turned bad, the parents will let the eggs sit - unattended. This makes them feel very very cold. BUT the truth is the eggs are still viable and the wise parents know this. They know to spend their time foraging for what little food they can find, rather than drain the female trying to keep the eggs warm. As TBN has discovered, incubating eggs is HARD work and takes a LOT of energy. :-) H From: Evelyn Cooper, emcooper"at"bayou.com Haleya, what about if only one hatches out of the clutch, don't we recommend that after five days removing the others so there won't be the possibility of one breaking and the baby getting stuck in the mess? Evelyn Cooper Delhi,LA Member NABS Louisiana Bayou ... From:
Haleya Priest Sorry - yes of course you are right about that. I was referring to thinking a nest had been abandoned when all eggs are intact and no signs of predators. :-) H From: Evelyn Cooper, emcooper"at"bayou.com Yes, I knew you were referring to that, but I just had a member to have this problem about only one hatching and I wanted to be sure I had it right. Evelyn From: RJFandal"at"aol.com I realize that this may be in the archives, but I'd like to hear the responses of those who currently use the List--I have learned so much from you all. How soon after the nestlings have fledged do you clean out the nestbox? ... Tammi, Pearl River, LA From: Evelyn Cooper [ mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com ] Oh, I just gotta jump in on this one. Clean it out that day if you possibly can. I had some fledge on the 29th and 30th of April and in four days there were complete nests in four of the nestboxes. One of the females started a nest just a few days before her babies fledged in another nestbox not far from it in my backyard. She now has 3 eggs on the second cycle. They can build a nest in two days. I fledged 43 babies and have 4 incubating on the first cycle. Yesterday a female flew down from a tree in my front yard just a few feet from the window I was watching from, and I saw a fledgling fly down out of the tree landing beside the mother and she fed it a crickett. Then, it flew its wobbly little self right back up to the tree. Made my day!!!! Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA From: Dottie Roseboom Tammi, Congratulations - if you can be home when the nestlings fledge, by all means watch & enjoy this beautiful sight! BTW, if one of the eggs hatched a bit later than the others, that nestling may fledge 2 or 3 hours AFTER his siblings do. One year, an egg in one of my nestboxes, hatched about 26 hours later than the others. He did not fledged until the day after everyone else. The parents fed him after feeding the others. He was so cute, sticking his head out of the entrance hole, waiting for his food. I try to remove the nest as soon as the last nestling is safe in a tree - I watch through a spotting scope, just in case a cat, snake, dog, etc. is attracted by the fledgings. Many times, nestbuilding will begin right away. If the babies all fledge before lunch, a good portion of a new nest will be built by nightfall. They'll finish it the next day, and be on the way to a second family..... We wait all winter - and it seems like all spring for that first nest to be finished. Won't have to wait long for the second nest to be constructed! Ooops, maybe I better say this happens in the north. I don't know if the hot weather in LA would slow down the 2nd nest construction. Have fun! [subsequent post] I do the same as Evelyn. As soon as the BB babies fledge, I clean out the box. I always use plastic throw away gloves and a mask. I don't do anything but brush it out. Dottie, Hickory Hollow, Brown County, Indiana From: Kleinpeter Music Yeah, Dottie, be careful... My little blue started her nest nearly three days after her last fledge and took about four days to complete it. She has kind of a "drawl" when she nest builds. :) Kenny Kleinpeter, Baton Rouge, LA
From: Snoopy [mailto:snoopy"at"wmis.net] I don't always know exactly when the babies fledge... as I usually only check the boxes once or twice a week, but I do clean out the nestbox when I find that the babies are gone. I'm excited about checking the boxes today.... Last time I checked was last Thursday and I still had eggs, but I'm hoping there will be babies today!! Joy in Michigan From:
Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Well, if they get in a hurry or bind to build back, sometimes they build over the old nest. This can put the nest up higher than it should be to the hole. I am for checking more often if you can possibly do it. If for some reason one can't do it, there is no reason to feel guilty. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA P.S. One advantage of keeping records, you know the approximate date of fledging (16 to 21 days) and that way can check those more carefully and do the house cleaning. Evelyn From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"tds.net] If the Bluebirds build over the old nest, leaving the cup too near the entrance, you can always remove - carefully - the old material, using something like a putty knife. It's important to keep the nest cup as far below the hole as possible, out of reach of marauders. Bruce Burdett, SW NH From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] When is the best time to remove it? I had one to re-work a nest that I had left as I thought a pair started it and would come back. I think another pair re-did it and it is too high. When it was finished, I removed a small bottom portion, and she re-built it right back, so I left it. Now, four eggs are incubating. Should I do it now? This is my first experience about this. Evelyn From: John Schuster From: Dottie Roseboom [ mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com ] Evelyn, Completely agree with you about the advantages of keeping records. As soon as the fledgling date approaches, I keep an eye on that nestbox, so that I can remove the old nest as quickly as possible. I feel that this prevents the parents from bothering adjoining cavitiy nesters or building in neighbors' inadequate nestboxes. It also seems cleaner to me than allowing them to build over the old nest. (don't know if that bothers the birds :-) ) I enjoy watching the blues - and I do think that careful observation has prevented problems and/or provided a learning experience, so that "next year" will be better We just do the best that we can, with the time that we have. Nothing in this world is perfect. Dottie Roseboom Peoria IL (central - zone 5)
From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"tds.net] From: Burnham, Barbara [mailto:Barbara.Burnham"at"zzz.zzz] Our five backyard bluebird babies fledged late yesterday afternoon from a Gilbertson PVC nestbox. This morning I went out to swap it with a clean Gilbertson PVC and got dive-bombed by both parents. Thinking maybe one was still to fledge, I waited a while and saw each parent enter and exit with something small and dark (not white), several times. There are no babies in that box; I checked. They are cleaning house! And very possessive about it, too. My mother-in-law would be pleased; at least the bluebirds keep a clean house. Has anyone else ever seen bluebirds doing this? Barbara Burnham Ellicott City, MD From: Holly Gladdis Most of the time I simply lurk because I have no official bb trail. I have a bb house up, and was hoping to attract a bb to it. However, the EABL chose a house that was just "up". Today I saw an adult going in and heard babies being fed. The bad part about this house is that it isn't hinged so I can clean it out. So, my question is, how do I know when to clean it out. Do I have to clean it out? Thanks, Holly From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com] Hi Holly, Hey, you don't have to own a trail to put in your 2 cents. :-) And birds always have a habit of chosing the "wrong" box. And a monitor never HAS to do anything. However, it is recommended to remove the nest & dispose of it, as soon as ALL the nestlings leave the nest. Is the nestbox put together with screws or nails? If it has screws, once the babies have left, just unscrew a side or the lid of the nestbox to remove the nest. Pretty easy. If the nestbox only has nails, or even worse, the big staples, you can still take a side or lid off. However, the wood may split. Early this spring, I took apart 3 very old nestboxes that were nailed. By using a vise, wedge, small hammer, and lots of time, I salvaged all the wood - put them back together with screws. Be careful, and locate all the nails before beginning. If the nestbox is just one piece (gourd or ceramic), I would probably replace it with an NABS approved nestbox (after the babies fledge!). It's hard to trap HOSP in a nestbox that can not be opened. And even if you only passively control house sparrows, you still couldn't sterilize the eggs. NABS states that it is better to have NO nestbox than a nestbox that fledges sparrows. I have seen lots of one piece birdhouses stuffed to the roof with sparrow debris - and usually mice are about the only occupants. I have also seen birds build a new nest over an old nest, resulting in a nest as high as the entrance hole, leaving the babies within easy reach of starlings, cold weather, or rain. Many nestlings probably survive such homes, but why take the chance? Congratulations on the blues. Dottie Roseboom Peoria IL (central - zone 5) From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"tds.net] Holly, et al, At this moment I have exactly the same problem with un-openable boxes. A very nice lady gave me three new (unused) boxes which some nice lady had given her. All three are put together with nails, and there is no way to open them without taking them apart, and in their present condition they're useless to me. Fortunately they don't contain active nests. When I have the time, I'll disassemble them enough to replace a side in such a way that they can be hinged open for monitoring, but it's a time-consuming nuisance job which I'll probably put off for several months or years, knowing me. Also, the holes are crudely cut by hand and are too small. It's so easy to build a proper house. Why are there so many improper ones out there?! One reason, I suppose, is that many people never heard of monitoring or the importance of removing old nests. Some people even think that monitoring is BAD! So it goes. "And so we beat on, boats against the current..........." - F. Scott Fitzgerald. Bruce Burdett, SW NH From: MJShearer [mailto:eshearer"at" comcast.net] Here's some information about avian flu that suggests (to me, at least) that we'd be wise to exercise caution when opening and cleaning nestboxes. MJ Mary Jane Shearer; Tucker, GA http://www.who.int/csr/don/2004_01_15/en/ From: judymellin [mailto:judymellin"at"netzero.net] hanks, Mary Jane! I think a lot of the "old timers" have adopted some preventive techniques since we became aware of the risks (also slight) of hantavirus. When I do my annual scrubbing, I always wear rubber gloves and a paper face mask. And, during the regular season, I try to eat my granola bar before I get to the trail so that my hands are as clean as possible! Judy Mellin NE IL. From: Kenny Kleinpeter [mailto:kpkmaj"at"cox.net] Thanks for the heads-up, MJ. Possible scenario: A few days ago, I was doing nest checks on the 130 pairs of purple martins (neo-tropical migrants) and in one of the housing compartments, one of the nestlings attempted to escape. I use a small general-purpose knife to open doors and scrape out old nest material and when I instinctively moved to prevent the young bird's escape, I suffered a minor cut on my finger. I continued to check boxes but in hindsight, maybe I should have taken the time to disinfect the wound and apply a bandage to protect it from further exposure. I do make it a point to stand upwind from the feather sheathing dust and other nesting debris that gets airborne as I clean out nesting compartments but it probably wouldn't hurt to use a face mask or dust filter. No reason to be "alarmist" but a little common sense protection might go a long way. Kenny Kleinpeter Baton Rouge, LA From: PTom [mailto:ptom"at"austin.rr.com] For sanitary and general health reasons, I avoid contact with feces of any sort and sanitize my hands after cleaning out nestboxes. And, I agree with Kenny that a little common sense goes a long way. But, help me, please. Is there something in this Avian Flu Fact Sheet that suggests that we exercise "caution" when it comes to Avian Flu or potential subviruses? I have more concern about the possibility of uneccesary alarm being spread through the Internet and people becoming even less willing to monitor nestboxes because they're afraid of disease. I skimmed through the fact sheet and saw reports of some outbreaks of avian flu, primarily in Southeast Asia and read "Avian influenza viruses do not normally infect species other than birds and pigs". I saw the necessity of halting spread of epidemics in poultry populations and a precautionary statement for humans working with "infected poultry". I read that an influenza pandemic could occur if / when the avian flu virus combines with another virus and a new virus subtype emerges that is readily transmitted from person to person. Unless I missed something, there is not a precautionary statement in this particular fact sheet that would apply to bluebirders. Pauline Tom Mountain City (no mountains) TX From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Click on "Previous Report" in the first paragraph. Also on the first page it states: To date, all outbreaks of the highly pathogenic form have been caused by influenza A viruses of subtypes H5 and H7. [subsequent post] I meant to include the sentence on the first page that says all birds are thought to be susceptible to infection, though some are more so than others. We discuss every topic there is to be discussed on BB-L and this is one to me that is very important. It is not meant to scare anyone away from monitoring, but to make them aware they should take precautions. I know I monitored for two years without wearing a mask. There are other diseases just as serious as the one mentioned that can be contacted by not being careful. I know two people (one died) that contacted a disease from bird droppings. So, don't go ballistic, just be careful!!!!! Evelyn Cooper Delhi,LA From: Dottie, Hickory Hollow, Brown County, Indiana [mailto:yumyumkatts"at"voyager.net] I wear a mask and gloves--plastic throw away gloves--$1 for a whole box of them at the Dollar Store. Add Hanta (sp) virus to what can be in the nest boxes also. A farmer here in Indiana died from that virus by cleaning out his barn. His was from mice droppings in his barn. Actually, I wear a mask for a lot to things like refilling bird feeders (dust from the seed), putting down mulch, putting in and taking out straw from my dog shed (garden shed). I have two friends that have trouble with their lungs and cough and can't breathe sometimes. Never were smokers. This has been going on for years and the docs can't find what's wrong with them. They have had several different diagnosis--none which were correct. They also have had every test known to man including a lung biopsy and a heart cath. My theory is that their lung problem could have been caused by their putting down tons of mulch without a mask. Maybe fungus. It pays to be careful! Dottie, Hickory Hollow From: MJShearer [mailto:eshearer"at"comcast.net] i Pauline and All, Didn't mean to alarm anyone, and didn't think I would since
KK has written about avian flu a couple of times. If you read the report carefully,
you'll find that although Avian Flu does not pose an imminent threat of an
influenza pandemic, people who are exposed to bird and other animal fecal matter
have reason to exercise caution. As the article states, a pandemic was avoided
by destroying the *entire* poultry population of Hong Kong -- an island. It
would be much more difficult to contain a similar outbreak in a large, mobile
society. Since ducks are a primary "mixing vessel" for the virus, can you imagine
what it would take to control an outbreak if our duck population became infected?
We shouldn't panic over this, but we should be aware that the problem exists
and is not limited to a few chickens in Asia. I think common sense precautions
should be exercised when we monitor,clean boxes, dispose of dead birds, etc....
This statement certainly leads me to think that bluebirders and anyone else
who works with birds and poultry should get a "heads up" about the virus. From: Dottie, Hickory Hollow, Brown County, Indiana [mailto:yumyumkatts"at"voyager.net] Thanks for spelling it correctly, Judy. Hantavirus. Another good idea about putting a Band-Aid over a cut and taking some Band-Aids with you. I use peroxide a lot -- on us and my dogs. Maybe take peroxide with you also. Dottie, Hickory Hollow Brown County, Indiana From: Ann Bigger [mailto:abigger"at"charter.net] Evelyn, Now you know 3 (me) my lungs are bad same damage as what you would see from smoking even tho I have never smoked< Dr. says it's from having over 100 house birds and not knowing to take precautions when I was cleaning !! Now I only have the outside birds;-))) Ann Bigger-Michigan From: jwick"at"tds.net [mailto:jwick"at"tds.net] Try a small putty knife instead of your general purpose knife, Kenny. It would be more difficult to accidentally cut yourself with a putty knife. I've used one for years for just the purpose you mention! Ann Wick Black Earth, WI From: Simon [mailto:simon"at"bowecho.com] It would be more difficult to accidentally cut yourself with a putty knife... difficult, but not impossible.. ouch! -theresa SW Michigan.... Who can hurt herself with the strangest things... From: John Schuster [mailto:wildwingco"at"earthlink.net] Dear Friends, Kenny makes a good point about avoiding the feather sheathing dust by standing up wind up when opening up nest boxes for monitoring. Though this may not be possible for some of us and may not apply to all other areas of the USA, I'd like to add that if you monitor your nest boxes early in the morning wind may not be a factor (as it is here.) From: RJFandal"at"aol.com [mailto:RJFandal"at"aol.com] From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net]
Several people mentioned different products on keeping germs out of cuts and I found a product called "New Skin" several years ago. It is a liquid bandage that looks like clear fingernail polish but is more of a flexible plastic coating and when you apply two coats it quickly dries and will hold up all day completely sealing the cut even if you are constantly wetting the area or sweating profusely. It will hold up for several days if you keep the area dry. It comes in a small brown bottle and I have found it in Ohio and Texas at pharmacies and a couple of them have lasted three years now in the glove compartments of my work trucks. This works great on those nasty razor cuts or when you have to dig out a wood splinter! It is NOT for deep wounds. .... KK... From: Bogey [mailto:bogey"at"sc.rr.com] The babies fledged on Thursday. But before I could clean out the nest, the parents are back. I noted one egg today (Monday the 31st). Is this unusual? The nest box could use a good cleaning. Several dehydrated bugs are in the bottom of it. From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com]
Starting another nest so quickly happens frequently in my area. I think that "northern" bluebirds realize that sometimes we have early falls, and they don't waste any time starting another brood. I suspect that abundant food & cooler weather helps the parents to have enough energy to feed the fledgings while starting a new nest. However, there may also be other considerations of why they started a nest so quickly. The young might not still be here - from predation or whatever. And the parents are trying to re-coup their losses. And of course, unless the birds are tagged, it's hard to say for sure that the same pair is building the second nest. Perhaps the first pair is away with the youngsters, and this new pair slipped in. Isn't it fun to speculate on our feathered friends? If you are seeing the parents & youngsters, you may be lucky enough to have 3 broods this year! Personally, I would leave the bugs and nest and be happy that the Bluebirds are doing so well. Dottie Roseboom Peoria IL (central - zone 5) From: Brucemac1"at"aol.com [mailto:Brucemac1"at"aol.com] From: Jscott9536"at"aol.com [mailto:Jscott9536"at"aol.com] From: Cher [mailto:bluebirdnut"at"a-znet.com] Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 4:44 PM Subject: Re: Blue birds fledged Hello Jim, The young Bluebirds and parents stick very close together for a while. The parents teach the young how to hunt, what's good for food, etc. My own experience has been that the young seem to fly off a ways from their home base, with the parents following. If you're feeding mealworms, you will sometimes have the parents returning on a more or less regular basis for handouts to take to the kids. Then after a while you may well begin to see the fledglings as well. I'm not sure what the experience is for those who haven't been feeding mealworms to their Bluebirds. To answer your second question, yes, you should clean out the nestbox, as the female sometimes begins building another nest almost immediately after fledging the first brood. Put the old nest in a plastic bag, and dispose of in a garbage receptacle well away from the nestbox. Never throw the nest on the ground near the nestbox -- it could attract predators. Clean out the nestbox with water and a little dish soap and perhaps bleach (some I've heard use other disinfectants, but I don't remember the name of them -- mild bleach solution works well for me). Rinse well, and leave the box open for a while in the sun to dry. Then close it up, and you're back in move-in condition. The female doesn't always come back to the same nestbox, but often will, especially if there are mealworms being offered nearby! Once the second brood fledges, the adults will generally drive away the fledglings from previous nestings. Although in my case, the adults and fledglings from both nestings returned in the fall and stayed all winter to feast on mealworm and suet snacks offered daily at my kitchen window. Once nesting season started, the adults drove off the previous year's babies so they could get down to work. Hope this helps! Cher From: Joe Huber [mailto:hubertrap"at"webtv.net] Hi Jim in Indiana, Young bluebirds are generally taken some distance away by the parents, to a safe area such as a fairly dense tree. Here they are fed for several days and eventually taught to find their own food. You may not see much of them for several days,but once they start finding their own insects they may show up in your yard with the parents. As for the old nest,remove it now,as a new pair may use the box before this original pair are ready again. In any case the old nest serves no purpose so it should be removed. In rare cases the young will return and help the parents with the next nesting. Good luck ,and enjoy them. Joe From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"tds.net] From: Joe Huber [mailto:hubertrap"at"webtv.net]
...blow fly are introduced into the nest by the blow fly itself as it lays eggs in the nest. Also mites are introduced to the nest from nesting material brought in the nest by the nest builders. These things don't appear to linger over in the nest box, but are introduced to the new nest each year. Hope everything turns out ok for you. ... From: Keith & Sandy Kridler For cleaning bird
baths, hummingbird feeders and bird feeders for seed, use common house
hold bleach (6% Sodium Hypoclorite) at 3/4 cup bleach per gallon of water,
soak for five minutes or more and rinse thoroughly. From: lviolett"at"earthlink.net [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net] Keith mentioned that "Disinfecting a solitary nestbox would not help as many different birds as very sick birds are not concerned with nesting and egg laying." Even though very sick birds are no longer actively nesting, they use boxes on my trail as hospices throughout the year. Just this week I pulled out a dead male from a nest of four chicks with a single female caring for them (male is presumed to be the mate/parent). At another site, a dead WEBL male was pulled from a box of eggs being incubated (also presumed to be the mate as no other male was seen nearby). Whether to disinfect a nestbox is up to each monitor; and a putrid nestbox smells much better after it is hosed down and finished with a spritz of bleach solution. From: Dottie, Hickory Hollow, Brown County, Indiana [mailto:yumyumkatts"at"voyager.net] From: danhan7"at"sbcglobal.net [mailto:danhan7"at"sbcglobal.net] On monitoring my trail last week (I am only able to monitor it every 5 to 10 days), I had a nest box that had fledged two babies but had one unhatched egg left in it. I removed the egg and was about to removed the nest, when it became very clear that a pair of bluebirds wanted me to leave the nest alone. They were acting as they had babies or eggs in the nest. I did not remove the nest. So, the question is should I have removed the nest or not? Dan Hanan 35 miles SE of Austin, TX From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com] Dan, I've never had this one happen to me, but I probably would have removed the egg, and left the nest, if I was POSITIVE that this was the same egg that was with the original nesting. Did you actually see the nestlings fledge? It could be possible that the night before they fledged that a snake got the 2 babies and 1 egg. The parents would probably try to replace their loss. Therefore the current egg might be a 2nd attempt, not a leftover sterile egg. Since you can't go back in time, to figure this one out, I would visit this nestbox again (if at all possible), and see if a second egg has been laid. My monitoring attitude is to watch the blues & follow their lead. For some reason, they were defending this nestbox, so I would have left things alone. Birding is always interesting. Dottie Roseboom Peoria IL (central - zone 5) From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] I have this happen all the time. Even after I clean out #16, they still dive-bomb me over the empty nestbox. They are very possessive of their site and I am very happy about it. The pair in my yard have three nestboxes to choose from. The male fell in love with the one in the front yard and while mama was incubating in the one in the backyard, he would dive-bomb me over the one in the front yard too! Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA From: L Colangelo [mailto:lcolangelo"at"verizon.net] From: Paula [mailto:PaulaZ "at"columbus.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 9:49 AM Subject: 1st EABL egg and a question I have my first EABL egg in one of the boxes on my street laid on 4-3-05 I do have a question for all experienced bluebirders because this nest is My little guy's nest with 2 eggs is a similar tale. He did not clean out I also thought I would mention that God laughs with me (or at me) because He Paula Z From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper "at"bayou.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 10:07 AM Subject: RE: 1st EABL egg and a question Paula, when nests are left (which I did one time) they build them higher and Evelyn From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper "at"bayou.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 10:21 AM Subject: RE: 1st EABL egg and a question P.S. In my experience, the bluebirds build another nest over the one that is From: PTom [mailto:ptom "at"austin.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 10:56 AM Subject: nests over nests - what to do? I was fortunate to visit John Rogers' "famous" bluebird trail in New York When John encountered a nest that was "too high" (close to the hole), he Pauline Tom From: Paula [mailto:PaulaZ "at"columbus.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 9:29 AM Subject: Re: 1st EABL egg and a question Thanks, Evelyn. Most of mine are messy too, but these two were exceptions I Paula From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper "at"bayou.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 10:37 AM Subject: RE: 1st EABL egg and a question Paula, learning something new all the time is what makes it fun! The first time that happened to me, I would go and remove part of the bottom From: Kathy Johnson [mailto:krj "at"patmedia.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 11:20 AM Subject: Re: nests over nests - what to do? Our bluebirds would always move to a new nestbox if we weren't quick enough to clean out the box which had just fledged. As soon as we cleaned it out, they would abandon the new box and return to the box they had just had fledglings in. So, I took to cleaning out the nests within 24 hours of the last fledgling leaving and they would begin building a new nest the same day. That was in VT for the last 5 years. We thought it interesting that they seemed to know they were on a tight schedule in VT. They would arrive mid-March and begin building a nest immediately, lay eggs the following week, and proceeded to have 3 broods each year, one right after another with no break and nothing leisurely about it. No luck yet with bluebirds in NJ.... Kathy Johnson, Flemington, NJ From: Torrey [mailto:torrey_canyon "at"yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 12:57 PM Subject: Re: 1st EABL egg and a question Hi Paula! Most of my fledged EABL nests are just flat, not dirty. (Unlike TRES nests, which can be very I would agree with Evelyn that, if the nest is so tall that it's too close to the hole, part of it should be taken out. However, i wouldn't take out the very bottom layer where any blowfly pupae (possibly infested with jewel wasps) are. If the birds are trying to take advantage of the used nest's presumably lower parasite load, it's not fair to take that advantage away from them. That said, i use noel guards on my boxes & rarely have problems with predators reaching in. I don't worry much about tall nests. Like everything else, it all depends on your nestbox set up & your local predators. Good luck to you & your neighbor. :-) yours, Torrey Torrey Moss From: Paula [mailto:PaulaZ "at"columbus.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 1:52 PM Subject: Re: nests over nests - what to do? Kathy, Interesting. The EABL that used their same nest last year had an empty paired box just 5 feet from the one with the nest so they could have easily chosen this one for a new nest. The EABL this spring have 6 empty nest boxes on my street to choose from, but they chose the one with the old nest. It is just interesting. I do as you do generally - clean out nests as soon as they fledge, often within hours of fledging. These two nests were exceptionally well kept and I guess they decided to use them again. Paula From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper "at"bayou.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 4:58 PM Subject: RE: 1st EABL egg and a question Thanks, Torrey for bringing up that point of the blowfly. This again shows the difference in our parts of the country. I have never had a blowfly and have never been approached with a question or problem about it. In fact, I have never heard one mentioned from any member. I have also seen very few mites. Also, it is strange that some people never have dirty nests and mine would not be fitting for any respectable bluebird to use again they are so dirty! I have had some pairs to go to a box that has not been used on the second cycle even though I cleaned out the used dirty nest. Evelyn From: Shawn [mailto:shawnee4 "at"charter.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 8:24 PM Subject: Re: 1st EABL egg and a question Paula, I'm a newbie. I moved into a house that had an occupied Bluebird box in the back yard! We moved here in May 2004, and I didn't know anything about monitoring or cleaning out old nests, so I'm sure the resident Bluebirds "recycled" their nest from the first brood, apparently with no ill effects. In late July, when I found this email list, I did clean out the nest (of course they were finished nesting by then). Better late than never, right? ... Shawn in Sevierville, TN From: KCBSP "at"aol.com [mailto:KCBSP "at"aol.com] Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 9:03 PM Subject: Re: 1st EABL egg and a question In a Message dated 4/5/2005 9:25:17 AM Central Daylight Time, emcooper "at"bayou.com writes: I have seen most what Evelyn described, but I've seen Bluebirds on one occasion lay their clutch in a wren nest and one time a wren do the same in a bluebird nest!!! If they have started laying that will tell you the tail. I'd see what happens. YOu can always remove it next check. Kathy Clark, New Cumberland, PA From: Kathy [mailto:howbizr"at"gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 9:42 AM Subject: When to remove a nest/eggs When the birds have all fledged, should you remove the nest? If a clutch of eggs fails, for whatever reason, should you remove only the eggs or the nest as well? Any information on this topic would be helpful. For example, have people ever scared off birds by removing dud eggs? removing the nest? vs. has it encouraged the pair to try again? From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net] Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 11:38 AM Subject: Re: When to remove a nest/eggs Kathy, From: Kate Arnold [mailto:koscharn"at"cox.net] Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 9:32 AM Subject: RE: When to remove a nest/eggs I don't recall if your question was answered specifically, but most bluebirders I know remove old nests. Even if they are clean, the birds will often build on top of them, making the finished nest quite tall and putting eggs or babies closer to the entrance hole. This might make it easier for another critter to reach in and grab them. I have sometimes left clean unused nest in a nestbox, and it has gone unused. Then when I removed it a new nest was started within a day or two! Some birds may instinctively "know" that an old nest may be a dirty nest, possibly full of blowflies and other pests. At any rate "my" birds prefer empty nestboxes. Kate Arnold From: Lawrence Herbert [mailto:lherbert"at"4state.com] Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 5:18 PM Subject: leaving nests Paula and Bluebirdsters: I personally have found that, when you leave the nest in, there seems to be a delay in the next nesting. I have wondered if wandering cavity nesters look at it as an "occupied nest" and tend to avoid competition. On the other hand, when the birds have fledged and I clean out the old nest there seems to be a repeat of nesting attempts. In my opinion this is even true of a successful EABL nest. There may be a delay in starting to nest again except when the old nest is removed they seem to come right back! Obviously I have no scientific doc. on these events. It's just what "seems to happen" where I am at. Good birding, Larry H. Joplin MO. From: Peggy Dibble [mailto:pehd"at"hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 4:15 PM Subject: Remove Nest 5 EABL eggs were tossed out of the nest and dumbed to the ground. I'm not sure what to do with the nest. Does anyone know if I should leave the nest there hoping the pair will use it again, or should I take it out and let them build a new one? I'll leave the nest alone until I get an answer. From: Bet Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 9:32 AM Subject: RE: Remove Nest Hi Peggy, did you get an answer? (Some people answer offlist, but then it's hard to tell whether someone is left hanging or is all set.) First of all, I'd want to know why the eggs were on the ground, so you don't have a repeat situation. The usual suspects are either a house sparrow (see http://www.sialis.org/hospphotos.htm or a house wren http://www.sialis.org/wrens.htm. Often (but not always) the house wren removed eggs have a smaller pierced hole in them. If it is house sparrows, see http://www.sialis.org/hosp.htm for options. I trap in the box with an inexpensive but very effective Van Ert trap. Once an egg is laid, the most effective HOSP deterrent I know of is a sparrow spooker http://www.sialis.org/sparrowspooker.htm On the nest, from what I've read, it takes the female eastern bluebird about 10 days to get back in egg laying mode to try again. They may or may not choose the same box. I'm not sure about taking out the nest... I'd be tempted to leave it to save them the trouble of building a new one, but don't know whether removing it will "stimulate" them ??? From: bookfanaticef-bluebird"at"yahoo.com [mailto:bookfanaticef-bluebird"at"yahoo.com] I personally would leave the nest alone. Maybe if you have a major parasite infestation or something, you might want to remove it, but otherwise, I don't see the harm in leaving it. From: Bob Foster [mailto:rfoster37"at"cox.net] I am new to this list, so please excuse me if this topic has been addressed previously. From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 2:33 PM Subject: Re: Question regarding changing nesting material Bob, From: Shawn [mailto:shawnee4"at"charter.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 9:35 PM Subject: Re: Question regarding changing nesting material Hi Bob, Shawn in Sevierville, TN From: Ron Secord [mailto:lists"at"cordman.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 12:23 AM Subject: Re: clean out nest? Hello Nancy, Tuesday, May 24, 2005, 11:08:18 PM, you wrote: > After the baby bluebirds have left the nest, are you supposed to clean out Yes, clean it out. Once the babies leave (fledge) they won't come > Do you remove everything or do you leave it there for remove everything, they will build a new nest if they decide to re-use -- From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 8:27 AM Subject: Cleanout Nancy, et al, From: JOHN & BARBARA SIBIO [mailto:jsibio"at"comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 1:24 PM Subject: Removing nest The bluebird pair moved from the nestbox they successfully used for the first brood, after building a partial nest. I checked both boxes today, and the second box has a complete nest, with the cup formed. Should I remove the partial nest? I've never had them do this before! I think it is due to competition. There are other bluebirds around now and I saw three males chasing each other this morning when I got up. Also, lots of swallows this year, although they don't seem as interested in the boxes as they were last week. I've never had both boxes occupied at once, so I doubt that removing the first partial nest would encourage another cavity nester, but you never know. Barbara in Cloverdale, CA (hot, hot weather) |