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Cleaning out old nests (Part 2)Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:16:43 -0800 (PST) Greetings..Here is something that's puzzled me since last spring 2000. Last May, right after I dicovered that my 4 nestlings had fledged successfully, I immediately cleaned out the box..hoping that since the EABL parents had a succussful nesting, they would go to work shortly on nesting #2 in that same box..since at that time, that was the only box on our property. There were a couple other boxes in the neighborhood. (You remember..I told you that I put them up for the neighbors.) But they never did nest #2 in our yard or nearby last year. I've heard that many times, the EABL will build right over the 1st nest. I threw the 1st nest away, of course..not because it was dirty, but because all my books say..throw it away & clean out box. That box wasn't dirty, no flies, no bugs, no blow-worms, etc. Nest wasn't dirty, just a little soiled, if I remember. So I'm wondering if I had left that "not too dirty nest" alone, whether the EABL would have gone ahead & built #2 over #1 & nested. Of course in May last year, the leaves were out & there were House Wrens around..so that box in May wouldn't been in as opened appearing area in May as it was in March before all the leaves, etc. were out. But the nest business in this situation puzzles me. How many people have had a 2nd Bluebird nest built right over the 1st one with & without other boxes being nearby? I'm a keen observer around here, so as usual, if anyone can throw some light on my puzzlement, I'd appreciate it....Horace in NC. ===== Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:01:00 -0500 Greeting Horace and all, Last year I had 1 box in my backyard (I only have 15k sq. ft. total). I took out the old nest about 1 week after the first fledge. The same pair (I think) built a brand new nest and fledged 5 more. I cleaned out that one as well and to my amazement the same pair (I think) built a 3rd nest and fledged 4 more. Who knows if they would have built #2 and #3 in that box if I didn't clean it out. On the other hand, in the natural world no humans are cleaning out natural cavities. The birds just have to rebuild and clean on their own. Ward Kirkwood wk -----Original Message----- From: Horace Sher ... Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:39:51 -0500 After removing the used nest, scrubbing the box out and letting it dry out for several hours, I place clean dry short grasses with white pine needles back in the box for the next tennant. I had as many as 3 broods in the same box last year. Bob Sitarski ----- Original Message ----- From: "Horace Sher" hjsher1"at"yahoo.com ... Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:26:13 -0500 (EST) Hi Horace, I cleaned out old Bluebird nests for 26 years and #2 nest showed up in most boxes. I've had them rebuild over top an old nest several times when the old one wasn't removed fast enough. There doesn't seem to be any connection between #1 nesting and #2 nesting based on nest clean out. There are these that do it both ways so there doesn't seem to be any benefit either way. Never set a box out that bluebirds didn't use. Bluebirds can stand a lot of manipulation with their nest without abandoning. We can replace nests infected with blow fly larva and put in other material by hand and they continue to use the nest box. In the wild of nature old nests remain in cavities so its up to you. Joe Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 19:24:23 EDT g I've come to suspect that the only thing the same about each bluebird pair is that they are all different! Some stick with the same box whether cleaned or not. Some will get right started in a second, nearby, box (from what I've heard, sometimes even before the last clutch fledges) which could be a good reason to put up a second box once you havea confirmed nest. Others yet will move right off to a completely different box. I have NO idea why... As the King of Siam said, "Is a puzzlement!" Rhonda Watts -------------------------------------------------------------- Greetings..Here is something that's puzzled me since last spring 2000. Last May, right after I ... Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 23:42:51 EST Horace and Others, I believe data is being collected this year on this matter by Hatch Graham, for one. I seem to recall as I type that Hatch cleaned out only half the nests on his trail from last year. Whether he will be leaving first nests of this year and record data on build-overs, I don't know. I've wondered about something that may be related to whether or not a bluebird will build over a nest. This has to do with the predominant material a bird uses to build a nest. Let me explain. The first year I observed a bluebird build nests in my yard she used long-needle pine exclusively. She labored long and hard, particularly for the second and third nests when temperatures were very much hotter than in early Spring. These were beautiful nests and I took the opportunity to witness just about every needle that she picked up, flew to, then put in the nestbox for each of the nests. I sensed the great amount of energy she expended while working on the nests and, of course, I gained respect for the amount of the bird's life that is spent taking care of or preparing to take care of her young - looking for a nesting place, brooding eggs then hatchlings, flying the gauntlet to get then deliver food and on and on. Somewhere during this first bluebird experience I learned about the Peterson nestbox. Its inverted funnel-like design is supposed to require less material to build a nest than is required for building a nest in a rectangular type box. Additionally, so some write-ups go, because the top area of a nest gets larger as it is being built the female can stop nest building when the top surface is just right for her. Well, I jumped on that, built a pretty good looking Peterson to original specifications, and had that puppy ready for the bluebirds the following season - sure didn't want the next female to wear me out as I watched her build her nests :-) Now, to the point of this story as it relates to whether or not a bird will build a nest over a previous nest. In the Spring of my second bluebirding year the female built her nest in the Peterson box. She didn't use pine needles as the female had done the previous season, she used grasses. Rather than simply gather needles from the ground, the second year female tugged and pulled each piece of grass from the turf. She flew great distances in the neighborhood rounding up what she needed. She labored for slightly more than five days to build her nest of grass, whereas the one that used needles to build her nest in a rectangular box completed her work in less than two days and never flew out of the yard for building material. I removed the Peterson and made the previous year's box available for the second nest. The female built the nest for it by again using grasses. It took her nearly a week. It may be that a female builds nests with material that most closely matches material used by its mother. The material used may be imprinted some other way. Choice of material sure doesn't seem to be determined by efficiency. I wonder if a female would be able to select significantly different nest building material from one year to the next. In the case of building a nest over a previously completed nest, maybe it is something that was very much imprinted at one time, but as more birds are exposed to nestboxes maintained by humans maybe there will be fewer and fewer birds that will build a nest over another. Gathering scientific data about this may lead to new thoughts about our stewardship. Tom in NW Florida Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 01:08:25 EST Hi Folks, Here's a correction to my 01-03-16 23:45:03 EST post on this subject. At a little over half way down in the third paragraph while describing the Peterson nestbox I wrote, in part, ". . . Peterson nestbox. Its inverted funnel-like design is supposed to require less material to build . . . " Remove "inverted" because if the funnel-like design gets inverted we are going to loose everything. Sorry for any confusion I may have caused. Tom in NW Florida Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 20:53:15 EST Hey Horace and all, Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 20:12:48 -0800 Maybe Tina or someone else from Cornell can tell us if they ever got enough data on "who does and who doesn't" remove old nests and how this might affect nesting attempts. Those of us who did the Cornell Nestbox Network provided this info for at least a couple of years but I don't remember ever seeing any published conclusions. Judy Mellin ... Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:00:07 -0500 (EST) On Fri, 16 Mar 2001, Horace Sher hjsher1"at"yahoo.com wrote: over the 1st nest. I threw the 1st nest away, of Everybody, I hope this year you will send all your old nests to Terry Whitworth for his
study on Bird Blowflies (Protocalliphora). You can get more information at Yours, Barry http://www.crosswinds.net/~barryw/bluebird/mybb.htm Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:15:34 -0800 Gosh, I think we had an e-mail from Terry through Cornell that said he had enough bluebird nests and needed only some of the more unusual ones. As I remember, Mike Powers (?) forwarded a letter that Terry had sent. Maybe Mike can resend it so we have the details. Judy Mellin ... Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 22:26:41 EST In a Message dated 01-03-19 21:16:47 EST, Judy Mellin writes: Gosh, I think we had an e-mail from Terry through Cornell that said he had enough bluebird nests and needed only some of the more unusual ones. As I remember, Mike Powers (?) forwarded a letter that Terry had sent. Maybe Mike can resend it so we have the details. Here's Mike's Message on this subject which includes Terry's email Subj: Nest Study Report Hi Bluebirders, For some unknown reason the following letter wound up in a wrong folder rather than on the list, so I'm simply forwarding it for Dr. Whitworth. Regards, January 3, 2001 Michael Powers Cornell Lab of Ornithology mep42"at"cornell.edu Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:25:18 +0000 Hi all, Regarding the subject of removing the old bluebird nests once the nestlings have fledged. I do remove the nests (if the female gives me the chance before starting another brood) only because I personally feel better about providing a clean, parasite free box for the next brood, but in support of those who choose to leave the old nests, we must consider this question..who removes the used nest in the natural cavities that the bluebirds have chosen as a nest site? Just a thought! Sheri-OHIO Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:40:27 -0500 To: Dinlows, et al, For what it may be worth, I ALWAYS remove the old nest and clean the house as soon as every clutch of chicks leaves. For some reason, the old nests are always so flat, filthy and infested with this-or-that that no self-respecting bird would wish to build on top of them, or so it seems to me. (I'll admit that I'm anthro............ a little here, [Sorry, Wendell] but if I were a Bluebird, that's how I would feel.) It also seems that they welcome the clean box for their 2nd nestings. (I rarely get a 3rd, and 3rds are always too late in the season to make it.) This is NH, after all, and we're pretty close to the North Pole.) I've never had a new nest started on top of an old one, but that's because they never get the opportunity. Why do I do this? Because 3 of my 5 Bluebird books recommend it, and the other 2 don't mention the subject. The 3 authors who recommend it all know more about Bluebirds than I'll ever know. One of them is Dorene Scriven, and she's my Authority of Last Resort. Whatever she recommends, I do. ... Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:54:49 -0600 One potential problem with not removing bluebird nests is the height of the new nest if built on top of an old one. This places the new nest much closer to the entrance hole and may make the nest more vulnerable to predation by predators that tend to reach in and steal eggs or babies (raccoons, ie). Last season I discovered a bluebird nest built on top of an old one bacause I did not get there in time to clean out the old one. I did not remove the entire bottom nest but I did remove the bottom couple of inches to lower the height of the new nest so that it was not so close to the entrance hole. Jay Gilliam Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:48:14 -0500 There has been some discussion that some of the *things* that live in the old nest may be beneficial. That's why the cleaning out/not cleaning out debate continues! :-) Only thing I know for sure is that they will re-use their old nests. One could argue that leaving the old nest saves the female a LOT of work! Brenda The Nature Club of Central New York Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:09:08 -0500 Hi Brenda! Keep in mind what Jay said, if they build a new nest over the old one, they become too close to the hole which could put the whole family in danger. If you decide to leave an old nest in place, that is OK if you also make sure to remove some of the older nest to lower the whole new nest back down to a safe distance below the entrance hole... My experience is that the old nest is very flat by the time babies fledge, so the mom has to build a cup over the old flat nest... Fawzi from MD ... Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 08:42:05 -0400 Sharon J., et al, When to clean out old nests is another of our controversial subjects, you will find. I always clean out the old nests immediately after each completed fledging. Usually these old nests are filthy, squashed flat, and infested with something or other, like blowflies. If I were a Bluebird, I wouldn't be inclined to start another nest on top of such a mess. All I can say is that it has always worked well for me, here in NH, to clean out after the last chick has left. The building of the second (or third) nest often starts a day or two after I clean the box. Some folks go a step farther and wash the interior with bleach, but I've never done that. The bleach thing strikes me as just a mite too invasive. You'll get other opinions, I'm sure. There's the Parasitic Wasp Theory, for example. Bruce Burdett, NH Bluebird Conspiracy, Sunapee NH Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 11:15:01 -0400 Hello all, Guess what? Last night I "shook the rice"* to see if my BB pair would come. They did, ate a few mealies and went away. I was so glad they were okay. This morning I put up a much more BB-friendly house (thanks John for house plans). I turned around to get the final screw and -not 5 feet away- both Abby and Christopher were checking out their new home. I may have scared them off because I wasn't done yet. We have to move out of this duplex soon and the next tenants will not necessarily care about these birds. So, should I put their old, but dry, nest back in to "save them some time" (everything outside is wet right now) or, are there too many bad memories associated with their old nest with the possum attack? Also, how does it work?... Do they find a box, go away and mate, and then come back and build a nest? When will I see them again? Thanks very much! -Laura Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 18:57:20 -0500 Hello all, I checked my bb box today & the babies are gone! =( I miss them very much. I put up another nestbox about 5 to 8 ft. away from the original box on Wednesday to see if they would us that or not. Anyway, my question is how long after the babies fledge do the parents start on the next nest/brood? Should I go ahead n clean the nestbox out? They are still around, but I want them to have their second brood in my yard. =) Any advice to give to up my chances? I also put up another bb box where the one I put next to the one they used use to be. See the one I placed near them they didn't like at first for some reason I don't know, so I thought I would put it near the box they used n see if they will take to it. I am just wanting/trying to get them to nest in my yard again for the rest of their nesting season. Joleen in East NorthCentral Indiana Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 07:49:38 -0400 (EDT) Hi Joleen, Bluebirds may take up to two weeks before starting a second net. Then some will start right away. Believe it depends on ho many young have survived that they must tend to. Young can pretty much feed themselves before a new nest is started. Who knows,a new pair may move in and start building while you can't tell the difference. Joe Huber Venice, Fl. Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 11:40:13 -0400 I just joined the list about a week ago and have been checking out some old responses to questions to avoid repitition (although I haven't been able to check ALL of the Messages). One question I've had to which I might have gotten the answer this morning is - Is it necessary to remove the old nest once the young have hatched and fledged. I assumed that it was, so I removed the old nest. When I checked the house just a few minutes ago, I saw that another nest had been built and there were already 3 eggs in it!!! I hadn't been able to check the birdhouse for a few days so I don't know when the chicks left. How soon after I notice that the chicks have fledged is it safe to remove the nest? Do they ever come back to the nest after they have left it? Oh, I'll have a lot more questions I'm sure, but the answers to these should keep me busy for a while. Thanks in advance. Mark A. Benell Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 08:04:05 -0400 Randy Jones ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark A.Benell I just joined the list about a week ago and have been checking out some old responses to questions to avoid repitition (although I haven't been able to check ALL of the Messages). One question I've had to which I might have gotten the answer this morning is - Is it necessary to remove the old nest once the young have hatched and fledged. I assumed that it was, so I removed the old nest. When I checked the house just a few minutes ago, I saw that another nest had been built and there were already 3 eggs in it!!! I hadn't been able to check the birdhouse for a few days so I don't know when the chicks left. How soon after I notice that the chicks have fledged is it safe to remove the nest? DO IT RIGHT AWAY, AND CLEAN THE NESTBOX WELL. Do they ever come back to the nest after they have left it? NO. Oh, I'll have a lot more questions I'm sure, but the answers to these should keep me busy for a while. Thanks in advance. Mark A. Benell Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 07:29:33 -0500 Welcome to the list, Mark. It is always nice to have new people and I will indeed try to help. I'm one of the older Bluebirders, both in age and experience. To answer your questions; It isn't necessary but the Blues prefer that they build a new nest each nesting cycle, that is not to say they will not build a nest-on-a-nest but the nest material gets too high in the box otherwise. No, the Blues young never return to the nest once they leave. There I go again, saying NEVER, they will many times make a liar out of you when you use that word. At least I have never seen them return. You can clean it out once all of the fledglings have gone. Sometimes Mom & Dad will start working on another family right away. Hope that helps you, but don't ever hold back asking questions, some of us will answer you with generally reliable information, Again I say, WELCOME to the list. Dan McCue in Camden, TN. 75 miles due west of Nashville on the Tennessee
River in West TN. ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark A.Benell ... Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 08:43:37 -0400 Mark, et al, Randy's right, in my opinion, at least he's right based on my experience here in SW NH. I always clean out my houses immediately after the last fledgling (sp?) has left. Very often the next nest is started on the following day, - even on the same day. No, the young birds do not return to the nest once they have left it. For one thing, the adults usually stop feeding them at the nest, so there's no motive for them to stay there. By that time, the nest has definitely out-lived its usefulness, and it's probably very filthy. I think I'm right in saying that NO young birds return to their nest once they have flown. (Does anyone know of exceptions?) Their next priority in life is to learn to fly and to feed themselves. I've found it very common for the adults to start a new nest immediately after the previous clutch has left, especially if the house has been cleaned out. Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 09:15:41 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA I've seen baby bluebirds PERCH on the old nestbox, but never go INSIDE the old nestbox- I believe that is what is refered to as the "babies never go back to the nestbox". Once out of the nest, there ain't no goin' back....... . :-) Ah.... if the answer to this question was all we ever had to worry about!!! :-) H snip: NO young birds return to their nest once they have flown. (Does anyone know ... Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 09:12:24 EDT Hi... Is there anything (besides removing the old nest) that needs to be done to the birdhouse to get a new nesting started after the first batch of NABL fledge?? Please respond to me directly and the list. Thanks. Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 09:19:17 -0400 Take out the old nest and they will rebuild. If they don't the tree swallows or wrens will. When I first started with BB houses I didn't know you had to tear out the old nest and in a one house they built right on top of the old nest. Trouble was, it was too high and the eggs would roll out of the box! Tim Towanda, Pa -----Original Message----- ... Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 09:31:31 -0400 Dale, I usually only remove the nest and wipe out the box with a dry paper towel just to get the loose debris out. Other than that, I do nothing else to my 20 boxes and I have had no problems with fledging. I would say that if you notice a heavy infestation of blowflies, ants or something else, then take a damp sponge and wipe it out. It may or may not help, but that is what I would do. Larry Zapotocky ----- Original Message ----- From: DStoutj"at"aol.com ... Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 06:59:25 -0700 Hello Dale; .. Is there anything (besides removing the old nest) that needs to be done to Well, that depends a little on what you find. Usually I use a scraper to loosen the encrusted fecal material that coats the inside of a newly fledged box. Then I simply scrape out that and the nest material. I usually carry the old nest at least 30-40 meters from the box. I break it up as I scatter it. The only harsh extra steps I take are if the box is infested with mites or ants. I use a commercially available (pet store) mite spray for birds and douse it. Then leave it open for a few days to air out. If I find ants, I get Ant&Roach spray and spray the area around the box in such a way as to deny access to the box across any untreated area. Again, I let the surface dry and air out, and then reassemble or reinstall or remount the box--depends a little on the physical aspects of the box in question. Have fun! Dusty Bleher Please respond to me directly and the list. Thanks. Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 09:23:17 -0700 For a couple of years, part of the Cornell Nestbox Network protocol was the Nest Selection Study. This study asked the question, "Is an Empty Box Preferred?" It asked participants to set up pairs of boxes, one with an old nest and one without to try to see if there was a preference. As I remember, there were not enough data submitted to continue with the study (someone from Cornell, please chime in if this is incorrect!) but the manual cited some research that had been done by others. One that seemed quite amazing was this: in Kentucky, when bluebirds were given the choice of a nest box containing an old bluebird nest from a previous year or an empty box, 93% of the nesting pairs chose boxes containing old nests. This certainly is food for thought but remember- it is not my research! Judy Mellin Hi... Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 17:29:21 -0500 I have left abandoned nests in nestboxes for WEEKS, and had no bluebirds use them, but when I finally decide remove the old nest, in every case the nestbox was used by a bluebird pair within a few days. While we think nestboxes are alike, there are more variables than just whether there is old nest material inside--distance from cover, distance from water or a food source and other selection criteria we don't understand. Factors such as nestbox availability might force a bird to start a nest in a "used" box, when it wouldn't if more choices were available. It would take a lot more study, perhaps with paired boxes, and there are factors that make removing old nests preferable--presence of blowfly larvae or mites, height of new nest too close to entrance hole, for instance, that make me inclined to clean out the old nests. Kate Oschwald Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 12:11:59 -0400 Since all (?) or most birds are plagued by lice, mites, ants, fleas, blowflies, etc. wouldn't it be more beneficial to remove old nests after they have been used once and the boxes swept out? If not, why not? Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 09:53:13 -0700 Dear Susan, Always remove the old nest once the baby BBs have fledge. Yes, this will remove infestations, but more important simulates the adult BBs to nest again for a second brood. Note: Never ever take a nest out and throw it to the ground at the base of the nesting box. I either throw my nests in the trash can or will break it into little piece throwing it into our vineyards some distance away. Tossing it to the base in time will attract predators. There are other measures that can be employed (after the fact) to further reduce infestations, but the above is the rule in my opinion and I believe I can safely say, this holds true for most if not all of the other NABS members. Regards, "susan"at"changeswithin.com" wrote: Since all (?) or most birds are plagued by lice, mites, ants, fleas, ... Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 14:17:20 -0400 Susan, I believe it is good to remove the old nests. On my 20 box trail, I get rid of the old nests once the birds fledged and in no time the birds are building new ones. To me it seems to be common sense. Although I am not a bird and I am really pushing my human feelings into this, if I was going to build a nest somewhere, I sure would want it to be cleaned out. Aside from the cleaning thing, it keeps the next set of nestlings safer because they are not as close to the entrance hole. Just my two cents. Larry Zapotocky ----- Original Message ----- ... Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 10:22:46 -0400 Hi, You may remember that I queried the Bluebird-L group about renesting back in June after a black snake had eaten the first clutch. I'm happy to say that we are expecting four new hatchlings sometime in the next week or so and that we have a snake baffle on the pole. However, I am a bit concerned, because the BBs built their second nest atop the first. Ms. B likes this situation because she can look out over the yard from the nestbox entry, but I'm afraid that as the chicks mature, they'll have too easy access to the hole. I haven't removed the old, first story nest yet, because I was afraid it would disturb Ms. B to the point of abandoning the eggs; however, I'm thinking that just after hatching might be an opportune time to do it. Any comments or advice? Thanks. Jim H. Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 10:11:00 -0400 Greetings All, I was very pleased to see some BB activity at one of my boxes in my backyard trail on 7/3. After no apparent activity by Bluebirds this entire season a pair was at my box on Tuesday. They are building a nest on top of a Wren nest that was made about a month ago but never used. I did not clean out the box because I was unsure of whether the Wrens would return and use it and they are a native bird. I have a modified Peterson box. Because of the Wren nest the top of the Bluebird nest will be right at the level of the entrance hole. My first instinct was to remove the bottom portion of the Wren nest to give them more room. When I went to the box for the 2nd time to do just that I tapped slightly on the box to make sure no bird was inside. When no bird flew out I opened the box. To my great surprise the female Bluebird was inside flattened up agonist the rear of the box. She was not coming out!. I closed it right up and left it alone. Assuming that they indeed lay eggs and they hatch, do any of you feel that the elevated level of the nest will create a problem for the nestlings? I am concerned that they may fledge too early or even fall out long before they are ready. Any thoughts? Ward Kirkwood wk Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 07:22:34 -0700 (PDT) Hi Ward..Every time I hear this question on the list, the answer is almost always.. wait until a EABL egg(s) is laid & then remove material from bottom of the nest to lower it a few inches below the hole. Otherwise, either a predator bird such as a Jay, Grackle, Starling, etc. might be able to grab the nestlings when they stand up inside thinking that their parents are there to give them food...Horace in NC. ************************************************ --- "Kirkwood, Ward (Boston)" KirkwoodW"at"BOSTON.usfood.com wrote: ... Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 10:30:28 -0400 (EDT) Hi Ward and all, The double thick nest will make the nest cup for the BLuebirds very close to the entrance on your Peterson box. It may be best to remove the lower section or wren part of the nest. Seems like the Bluebird is ready to lay eggs so be very careful when doing this as its easy to dump out the nest with this type of box. This should not have any effect on the bluebird nesting taking place right now. Many tall nests do turn out ok just like they are so this is a matter of choice on your part. To error on the side of safety removing the excessive nest is best. With the oval entrance there is a better chance of a predator bird removing eggs or young especially with the extra tall nest. Joe Huber Venice Fl - in Ohio for 2 months now. Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 07:53:37 -0700 (PDT) Hello...Here's a question about leaving an unused & clean nest intake in a box over fall/winter until next season...One of my boxes has a 90-95% completed & clean EABL nest in it made out of pine needles. What happened was that the EABL pair built the nest in this box in 1 day about in June when I blocked my neighbor's nestbox hole for 1 day to try to prevent a HOWR from entering his box. His nest had 1 EABL egg laid when I blocked it. The next day after I unblocked neighbor's box, the EABL pair abandoned my box (containing the almost completed nest) & went back to neighbor's box to complete their 2nd nesting in June. That female laid the rest of her clutch in neighbor's box. I left my box & nest alone. The nest hasn't been used by any bird. So I was wondering if you would take out this clean nest( and store it) or leave it intact in the box for next year. What do you think? Anyone with this experience or a similar one? Do you think next year when the EABL come around checking the boxes ... that a female might refuse or be attracted to this box containing the unused nest. Any thoughts? Thanks....Horace in NC. ===== Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 17:35:59 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Horace, used/soiled nests on my suburban western bluebird trail are routinely discarded to keep mites/ants under control. But I see no reason to remove unused (clean) nests. Side Note: Horace Sher wrote: ... Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 08:54:51 -0500 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas Much needed rain still falling in northeast Texas! If a nest is clean and unused it could be left in the nestbox over winter for if the box is used as a roost box the nest will make cleaning the box out in the spring far easier. Droppings from a group of bluebirds using a nestbox over winter will accumulate and cover the entire bottom of the box. Bluebirds tend to build another nest and the odds of the same pair returning the following year and using this nest "as is" is very remote. There is ongoing research that is testing whether bluebirds "prefer" to use a box with an old nest or a clean box. Results will probably depend on what part of the country you are in. MY thoughts, my opinions on leaving an old nest in a box: Bluebirds nest in Texas from FebSept. and often a box is used 4 times. IF we tell people that bluebirds "Prefer" a nestbox with an old nest then MANY will tend to never bother to clean out the nestbox. A nestbox with a tall nest is putting the female and nest contents in danger of predators being able to easier reach into the nest cup. If people don't need to clean out a nestbox then many will not even bother checking the box. IF they don't check the box then more birds will be lost. I was taught bluebirding by the "Old School" experts and they said to clean out a nestbox after every nesting. I don't always do this of course but I truly believe we should offer a relatively clean and empty nestbox for each new nesting attempt. Few nestboxes can protect the inside of the box from all moisture during fall/winter rain/snow storms so even a clean and dry nest now may become a soggy mass by spring. Many insects will try to overwinter in the old nests that are left in a nestbox. There are species of ants that will NOT use a nestbox if there is not any old nesting material already in the box. There are species of carpenter ants that don't care if there is nesting material or not. All across the southern states during heavy rains the imported red fire ants will abandon their colony in the ground and move their eggs, pupa and food stores up trunks of trees, posts or even up the walls of houses to escape rising water. They will invade hollow trees, woodpecker cavities, attics, bluebird or even wood duck boxes and will live in this temporary housing until ground water recedes. If no tall object with a suitable cavity is available they "swarm" out of the ground like honey bees and create a floating football sized mass of nearly a million ants and will float on the water until they reach land. They will use a nestbox whether there is nesting material or not. Bumble bees are seldom a problem but they only use nestboxes that already contain a nest. The "carpenter" bumble bees bore into the wood of the nestbox and don't care if there is a nest or not. They make their own cavity or tunnel in the wood so that they can create a "nest". Wasps don't seem to care if there is an old nest or not in the box. Spiders: Depends on the species. Some like the black widow and funnel web spiders seem to like an old nest to be able to come up and out of to attack prey. Most common spiders found in nestboxes don't seem to care if there is a nest or not. Mites are probably safer overwintering in a box with a nest than a clean nestbox. Most probably need to live on a bird during the winter or survive in the egg stage. IF your box gets wet overwinter and IF you leave an old nest and IF there are bird droppings in the box THEN you set the wood box up for attack by wood rotting bacteria. Remember this equation: moisture + carbon + nitrogen + warmth = compost! Lumber in the southwest ghost towns will survive in the open unpainted for hundreds of years because it seldom gets wet and there is little bacteria that can thrive in these dry conditions. This bacteria needs water soluble nitrogen as a basic cell building block and this is available in fertilizers like ammonia nitrate or sulfate or urea or bird droppings. Create a moist environment and add temperatures between 50*F140*F add a steady source of liquid nitrogen and these living creatures will turn your nestbox into compost! This is why different species of wood used for nestboxes will hold up in one area of the country and not other areas! Part of the equation is missing or out of balance just a little. In some areas paint or sealers will extend the life of the box and in other areas it will speed the rotting process. In the south to dissolve a hardwood stump in a single year mix one cup of ammonia nitrate, sulfate or urea in a gallon of water and pour over the stump once a month. Water the stump and surrounding area once a week to keep it moist. KK Cleaning out old nests (Part 3) |
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