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Bluebirds & Claim Straws? (Part 1)Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 22:28:10 -0800 Linda should explain that she's in an urban environment so her birds have access to all that junk. In my rural trail in the Sierra foothills, the only unusual material is the blue plastic strips from deteriorated blue plastic tarps the ranchers use to cover their equipment or woodpiles. We once had cassette tape picked up from the highway, but our claim straws are usually just a single piece of grass that is hardly noticeable unless you've just cleaned your box and see something in it. Since I've been participating in Cornell's paired box study half of my boxes have old nests, so I never see claim straws there if there are any. Hatch judymellin wrote: This is so interesting because I have never seen this in nine years of Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 08:45:58 -0500 To: The Constituency, During the 9 years that I've been putting out Bluebird boxes, I have never found any "thin, flat material" or any so-called "claim straws" when I open my boxes for the first time in the spring. They would be easy to spot, because I clean out all my houses (now 52) every fall. All I ever find is occasional chips where woodpeckers or rodents have enlarged the holes, now and then a mouse nest, and an acorn or two. Bruce Burdett, NH Bluebird Conspiracy, Sunapee NH Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 12:05:48 EST Hi folks, Linda Violett says, "Some (not all) nesting pairs on my trail will leave thin flat material in their boxes just prior to nest building." She then describes some examples of the types of "thin flat material" that she has learned to look for as signs of the impending nesting season. Judy Mellin then asks, "Are Eastern bluebirders seeing this, too, and I haven't been looking closely enough?" I haven't seen eastern bluebirds that nest in my yard use an easily recognizable "marker" such as Linda describes concerning her trail of California western bluebirds. The only time I've seen what may have been a "marker" or "claim straw" was when I observed the first pair of birds that came to live in our yard four years ago. At that time, after the male had shown the boxes to the female, it looked like she made her choice known to him when she soon deposited a single long-needle pine leaf in the box of her choice. The fellow went bonkers - hovered 6 foot above the box, then did a hovering circle around the box at box height and then hovered above it again while slowly revolving 360 degrees. They flew off together then came back the next day. She built. He watched - me too - and checked, etc. It was quite impressive. I have not seen that kind of a display performance since. Linda's observation prompts me to comment on the helpfulness that thorough and accurate record keeping and periodic review can offer a monitor of nestboxes - one box or many. In the case of a trail monitor the calendar time required to notice something like Linda sees is less than that for a yardbox custodian. Of course, this is because the number of chances or repititions for a particular sign or milestone is greater on the trail than that which is available to the custodian of one or a few yardboxes. It may take years, if ever, for a yardbox landlord to become aware of some things that happen. In either case, accurate and thorough recording of observations and periodic review may bring these interesting "happenings" to light. A large number of single nestbox monitors exchanging information may provide interesting and maybe even helpful tidbits. While various forms for recording observations are available, I recommend each monitor fiddle with, if necessary, the format for recording not only observations desired by the various birding groups with which one may participate, but include features to easily record other things personally observed. Also provide space to include one or more things that have been reported by others to see if these happen in your yard or trail. A form that requires mostly check marks or numbers or the recording of a few word phrase description works great for me. Hey Linda, your use of the knowledge of the "thin flat material" to predict when some of your westerns are going to build is pretty neat stuff. I probably would have pulled the darn stuff out of the box. Tom Heintzelman Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 11:34:19 -0800 (PST) I also find it very interesting. This is my third year so I am pretty new at this but last year on the last nesting (third) of the year my Eastern Bluebirds (EABL) did put a feather in their nest. I had read about it on the computer but this was a first for me. I was so excited!! I also read about the color of the eggs being light blue but my EABL eggs have always been white. Kerry in NE corner of Okla. --- judymellin judymellin"at"netzero.net wrote: ... Kerry in NE corner of Okla. Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 05:05:53 -0500 Hello from the Sandhills of Nebraska, My eastern bluebirds use claim straws. If I am out checking boxes in early to mid April, some boxes will contain a single "straw" or piece of grass. Carolyn Hall, The Sandhills Bluebird Lady, Bassett, NE 42 glorious degrees today. Melted off some of the ice on the streets and grass. Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:31:09 -0800 Well, this gets "curiouser and curiouser"! Our trail has nine boxes and I do try to monitor once a week. The birds on our site don't begin arriving until very late April or even early May and we have had only one winter sighting there in the years that I have been monitoring. I have seen blues fight- and win!- possession battles with tree swallows but never would have thought to look inside the box they fought over but I surely would if I ever saw this again. I too clean and scrub my boxes every year and leave them open all winter- as in, the front door is not closed. I've just closed the doors in the last couple of weeks so I will try to pay attention when the birds arrive to any "occupied" signs. From comments by others, though, this does seem to be a West Coast phenomenon- we all know about those West Coasters, running around in December in shorts and t shirts! But, hey, we get to do Christmas Bird Count on snowshoes or cross country skis- try to top that! Judy Mellin ----- Original Message ----- From: TomGaryH"at"aol.com ... Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:45:40 EST Last Fall my bluebirds left claim straws in both of my nestboxes. I took pictures of these claim straws too. Then a downy woodpecker began using my boxes as a roost and the claim straws would disappear. But they finally placed a claim straw in one of my boxes before they left last Fall and it is still there. So I am very anxiously awaiting the return of the bluebirds here to see what they do with this claim straw and if they put new ones in both boxes before they build a nest. Sherry Hunter Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:37:10 -0600 Carolyn Hall posts: My eastern bluebirds use claim straws. I bypassed this matter the last time it came up on the list, but this time I'll venture a question. Knowing the courtship rituals of bluebirds, isn't it possible that these "claim straws" are merely the residue of failed courtship? Jim Walters james-walters"at"uiowa.edu Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 22:34:00 -0800 When I see the kind of things Linda said was in her nest I know it is House Sparrows. The Bluebird nest I have do not have this kind of things in them. As soon as the snow and ice are gone I will check my nest boxes. Maynard R Sumner Flint, Michigan Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 06:59:17 -0500 I sometimes find a single piece of grass in a nestbox, but I have never interpreted it as a "claim straw." It doesn't happen at every box, and it isn't always a bluebird nesting there. As Jim says, I have seen a male bluebird carry a piece of grass to a nestbox while the female is watching. He will perch at the hole and look around. He goes in and out, all while holding this piece of grass. I believe he's enticing the female to build her nest in that particular nestbox, but ultimately it's up to her to decide. As for the piece of grass, wouldn't it be possible that he sometimes drops it inside the box and sometimes outside? Brenda ----- Original Message ----- From: "James P. Walters" james-walters"at"uiowa.edu ... Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 21:48:01 -0500 Hi all, I think Brenda and Jim are right on as to the so called "claim straws." The very name given to them is pure anthropomorphism. When a bird chooses a nesting site it lets other birds know by chasing them away and constantly defending the territory to claim it as theirs. A piece of straw/grass in the box means absolutely nothing to any other creature. Even after a full nest is built it can and does get taken over by chickadees, tree swallows, wrens, etc. Only constant defending secures it as theirs. There is no hidden Message in a piece of grass. They are not human nor think like humans. It doesn't work like when we leave a beach chair or tablecloth in a campsite. Just my humble opinion but I think it needs some thought. Ruth Edwards, Westport, MA Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 08:41:10 -0500 To the Constituency, I am of the same mind as Brenda, Jim, and Ruth in the matter of the so-called "claim straws." I refrained from using the longish word "anthropomorphism" on this list, because when I used it last year (in this same discussion, as I recall) I got pretty well ridiculed by the likes of Wendell Long, etc. But that's just what it is, in my opinion, flat-out anthropomorphism, pure and simple. I doubt very much that they are sending any kind of Message to any other bird. "The attributing of human .....characteristics to.....an animal" is how my Webster's defines the word. Of course, I can't prove that they're NOT sending a Message, but I think it would be difficult to prove that they ARE. Obviously the birds do leave stray pieces of nest material around sometimes, and sometimes their initial nest-building moves are a little sporadic (start-and-stop), but it seems a stretch to read any human-like motivation, or Message, or "claim" into this behavior. On the other hand, I certainly don't see any harm in believing in "claim straws" if it gives you pleasure, and I know that this opinion of mine may offend some of my most valued friends on this List. Bruce Burdett, SW NH NH Bluebird Conspiracy, blueburd"at"srnet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ruth Edwards" pinecrestfarm"at"earthlink.net ... Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 17:48:40 -0500 Re claim straws Bruce; any thoughts on the fact that house sparrows leave a longish signature grass-head over their freshly-killed nesting competitors ? I've seen this a couple of times and finally photographed a dead house wren with this feature laid over it; (house sparrow cheeping on box until I came too close.) HOSPs also leave single grass heads in boxes after having claimed them, at least locally. Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 18:30:38 -0500 No one ever gave a better reply to this outlandish concept which has no merit, whatsoever, in scientific fact. He is a gentleman. My response would be that this is not only a figment....but HORSEHOCKEY as well. Dean Sheldon, Huron County, OH From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com ... Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 19:26:05 -0600 Hello Gang: Seems like in high school many years ago I remember a phrase, "Much To Do About Nothing," or was it, "Me Thinks Thou Dost Protest Too Loudly." Maybe either is appropriate. What about giving the original lady that posted about the claim straws a break and move on to something else. I have a feeling that we are continuing to beat a subject to death on something we will never agree on and it is going to be a long year.... Best regards, Bruce Johnson ~ Life Mbr. NABS Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 18:55:04 -0800 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. This Listserve is for the mutual exchange of information. Any differing ideas are to be presented in a respectful manner. It is to be done without belittling anyone . . . or anyone's ideas. (There is one exception to that rule, and that delightful person already knows who he is.) We owe it to ourselves to do our own homework and below is a project will take very little effort and could prove interesting: 1) For this project, you must start with clean boxes. Collectively, we may be able to step beyond the groundwork laid by others. Linda Violett Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 20:19:02 -0800 Boy, I'm gonna love this--I love throwing gasoline on a fire! My boxes DO have "claim straws." How do I know? Cuz *I* put 'em there! In order to permit me to see if anybody is using the box (w/o having to go up and disassemble each box on every trip) *I* put a long straw into each hole so that it's roughly "kitty corner" in each box. I trim it so that I can see the straw in the hole when I go by. The theory is, if a bird goes in, he'll probably break/dislodge the straw, and I'll have a reason to take a closer look...(:-o)! L8r all, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ruth Edwards" pinecrestfarm"at"earthlink.net ... Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 07:17:36 -0600 Yes, I also have often seen claim straws left in nestboxes. They often are placed in the autumn as well as in the spring. Although my Nebraska friends and I do not claim to know that the birds are claiming the box, we do know the straws show activity at the box. If anyone knows a better term to give these items then please print your phrase. I wonder now if we were to look very carefully into this phenomenon perhaps we would learn that the straws are indeed a claim. Perhaps each bird has a pattern that it tries to make to show the other birds. I am surprised that birds lacking a sense of smell can recognize their mates. I am surprised that birds can recognize people. Knowing that, I would not be surprised if we learn that the claim straws are arranged in a precise pattern which would be different for each bird and thus appear to us to be a random arrangement. I suggest that we photograph the claim straws this year and see if next year the same box has the same pattern. This would only work if the same birds return to use 'their' box next year. Thanks for bringing up this topic for us to ponder and marvel at one more aspect of God's creation. Merlin in Brownville Nebraska Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 08:09:29 -0600 Merlin Wright posts: Yes, I also have often seen claim straws left in nestboxes. They often are ... Why not just call them what they are: "straws," "grass," "pine needles," or whatever they happen to be? Again, anyone familiar with bluebird courtship rituals has witnessed male seeking to lure female into nest box with a piece of nesting material. Is there anything wrong with supposing that a piece of straw, grass, pine needle, or whatever, found in a nesting box is only the result of a failed courtship attempt at that box? This seems entirely more likely to me than suggesting that a bluebird is attempting to communicate some Message to other birds through the placement (or even patterns?) of such materials in a nest box. Jim Walters james-walters"at"uiowa.edu Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 06:41:28 -0800 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Merlin, I have photos of some of my winter nestbox changes (including straws in some) at: http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett/winterroost.html The "Winter" web page was constructed because last spring some were hotly debating the existence of these straws and by the time I had a digital camera last spring, the claim straws were already buried under nests. When I referred to whether we notice any "patterns", I meant sequence of events and not the actual arrangement of the material. That winter's photo web page was announced to the List at the beginning of fall for all to view. As the fall/winter progressed, additional photos were added in a diary format. Take a look . . . and thanks for your open mind. Linda Violett "Wright, Merlin C." wrote: Yes, I also have often seen claim straws left in nestboxes. They often are ... Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 13:17:05 -0500 (EST) I have been just sitting back and watching the input concerning claim straws. I feel it’s time to throw another thought into the mix. In the past I have heard of dummy nests constructed by Bluebirds to keep others from using a neighboring box. To those who have been participating in the discussion, what is your uptake on this and how would you relate them to “claim straws”? Mike N W Oh Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 13:42:00 -0800 James Walters' post: Is there anything wrong with supposing that a piece of straw, grass, pine needle, or whatever, found ... I don't believe this activity is necessarily the result of a failed nesting attempt. For the past two years, I have observed the same (I think) male and female putting a small amount of straw in two of four nest boxes in a one-acre area. Although most of the straw was gathered by the female, both birds have participated. This was done over a period of time beginning last December. They occasionally check out the other two boxes, but rarely go inside them. I am sure that one of the two boxes with the straw will be the one chosen soon for actual nesting. I believe that the boxes containing straw are ones the birds like. Also, I don't see why it is such a "stretch" to conclude that this activity may likely be a "claiming" or "marking" behavior for bonding with a given box. Afterall, deer and other large animals mark their territories by scraping saplings, urinating etc. And lastly, to all of the people that are so sure that the "claiming" theory is unfounded, unscientific, etc......Why don't you guys give some reasonable alternative ideas????? Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 13:20:12 -0800 (PST) Hi all, If the claim straw is considered an anthropomorphism then would the snake skin so often found in the Great Crested Flycatchers nesting material be considered this also? Kerry in NE corner of Okla. ===== Kerry in NE corner of Okla. Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:34:30 -0500 Kerry Sweet wrote: Hi all, ... Tufted Titmice also use snakeskin in their nests, as I learned last year from this very list, after having gone to the trouble to remove a piece of cellophane, which I erroneously thought of as "junk". Such materials apparently serve as surrogate snakeskin where the real thing is unavailable. Kind of like fake leather upholstery. -- Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:41:45 -0500 At 01:20 PM 2/16/2001 -0800, Kerry Sweet wrote: Hi all, ... Kerry in NE corner of Okla....I enjoyed your just curious post. Is it okay to say that word in public? We have to be careful here in SW Ohio. Oooops I am sorry, I looked it up and I had the wrong word in mind--still thinking of Horace and the Acorn Woodpecker. You said anthropomorphism I think. Anyway your question seems to say that you find snake skin in flycatchers nest. Well, that is a new one on me, but that is the kind of discussion Fread was so helpful with and I cannot figure whatever happened to Fread. You are not Fread now are you? I don't think so. Did he survive, does anyone know his mystery disappearance? In the meantime until we hear from Jim Walters or someone who really knows the facts, I would think the answer to you skin question is Yes. If I understood the question. I base my answer on the assumption you are using the big long word in the human sense. If not, then I believe the answer to be No, based upon my anecdotal metamorphism and metabolism. Wendell Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:28:10 -0800 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. The western bluebirds on my trail do not build dummy nests. Even though this phenomenon does not occur on my trail, I will trust that dummy nests are, in fact, built elsewhere. Perhaps dummy nests aren't built on my trail because the vast majority of my sites have only one box per and most boxes are snapped up early by year-around bluebirds. Last year I added boxes with smaller entrances at some sites for diversification but Nuttalls pecked (enlarged) some of the entrance holes at these loosely paired sites during their winter roosting. At two such sites, bluebirds took one box, sparrows took the other. However, no dummy nests were built and I can't compare that unique phenomenon to the common claim straws. sialia"at"cyberdude.com wrote: In the past I have heard of dummy nests constructed by Bluebirds to keep others from using a ... Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 20:01:54 -0600 Kerry Sweet asks: If the claim straw is considered an anthropomorphism ... What is anthropormorphism is not what non-human animals (and remember, we are "animals" too) do, but rather the human context, meaning, or interpretation we ascribe to them or their actions. This "claim straw" business originates - and if I am mistaken, someone please correct me - from a post to this list last year suggesting bluebirds "claimed" nest boxes by the placement of "claim straws" as something roughly equivalent to the human behavoir of claiming chairs at a cocktail party by the placement of coats on chairs. That, quite clearly is, anthropormorphism. Why Great-crested flycatchers put snake skins in their nests - which is quite well-documented - is open to speculation and debate. But a methodology for getting into the "mind" of flycatchers (or bluebirds) is difficult conceptualize. But let's return to the matter of the so-called "claim straws." I asked if anyone had a problem with these being merely the evidence of failed courtship. In response to this, J. Graham posted: "I don't believe this activity is necessarily the result of a failed nesting attempt. For the past two years, I have observed the same (I think) male and female putting a small amount of straw in two of four nest boxes in a one-acre area. Although most of the straw was gathered by the female, both birds have participated. This was done over a period of time beginning last December. They occasionally check out the other two boxes, but rarely go inside them. I am sure that one of the two boxes with the straw will be the one chosen soon for actual nesting. I believe that the boxes containing straw are ones the birds like. Also, I don't see why it is such a "stretch" to conclude that this activity may likely be a "claiming" or "marking" behavior for bonding with a given box." snip I am not suggesting that a courting pair is not laying claim to a box - and the placement of nesting material by either male or femalebold in the courtship ritual/bold is clearly that. But that takes place boldwithin/bold the courtship ritual, not outside it - as would be the case with "claim straws" (i.e., being the indication to other birds that an active courtship - or an actual "planned" nesting - is taking place at the box in question). In the case Graham mentions, it seems likely that the courting pair is resolving which box to use, rather than simply laying claim to both of them. How Graham can ascertain that boxes containing the so-called claim straws are "ones the birds like" (as opposed to simply failed courtship efforts at any box - i.e., as in the male might have liked it) should be explained. Jim Walters james-walters"at"uiowa.edu Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 00:00:57 -0800 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Please everyone, hold your claimstraw questions for just a few months. During the next few weeks, I plan to add a Claimstraw web page. Based on straws seen in boxes today, I will venture to make some nesting predictions today in this post and the web page will track these sites as they progress from claimstraws/nests/eggs and the timing. Today, Jim Walters asks how we can ascertain that boxes containing the so-called claim straws are "ones the birds like" (as opposed to simply failed courtship efforts at any box . . . Not all of my boxes get straws, but if straws *do* appear in a box, that tells me the bluebirds like it, they have taken possession of it -- they have claimed it. Call it what you please, but I use that information to make adjustments to my trail and to ascertain whether recent changes are OK. This year, one half of my 40-box trail was changed to experimental skylight boxes. Long-time bluebirders advise that bluebirds won't use skylight boxes but I used a few skylight boxes last year as an anti-wren test (successful but preliminary). So claimstraw indicators are very important to me coming into this particular 2001 season. Most of the boxes on my trail are snapped up but a few remain unused or are used for later 2nd clutches. However, the risky conversion to skylights may throw everything off kilter this year. Today I visited about half my trail and only a minority of boxes have any claim straws. However, I am willing to offer my best guesses on bluebird nesting picks based on those early claimstraw boxes I saw today. Claimstraw-to-Egg Guess #1 Lupine site last year did not have any eggs laid. Claimstraw-to-Egg Guess #2 Eastlake wasn't used until late last year Claimstraw-to-Egg Guess #3 Fairmont Knolls has a nestbox at each end of the park. Claimstraw-to-Egg Guess#4 Shappell had a nest last year but had cobwebs all winter Claimstraw-to-Egg Guess#5 Brookmont east has claimstraws I'm basing these predictions on my past observations of straws in boxes. Linda Violett "James P. Walters" wrote: How Graham can ascertain that boxes containing the so-called claim straws are "ones the birds like" ... Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 17:34:27 -0800 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. The first photos of the "Claimstraw" sequence are ready for viewing at: http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett/claimstraws.html A 4-photo series of each "Prediction" box will (hopefully) show: 1) Claimstraws The next step is for everyone to carefully log their pre-nest observations . . . and we'll let Jim Walters handle the DNA/banding verifications. PS: The Brookmont East photo didn't come out so I'll have to go back and retake it after work in the next few days. "Stan Merrill, St. Paul, MN" wrote: Hi Linda: ... Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 09:19:21 -0600 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. ... This listserv is hosted by the Cornell Lab of Ornithology; a group that does on-going scientific research in a number of areas. I'm sure that someone at the lab could come up with some research protocols that would assist Linda in setting up a scientifically acceptable test of her hypothesis. I've suggested some of the difficulties I see with the research Linda describes - these come from almost forty years of (admittedly) non-scientific observation of nesting bluebirds. Others, with similar experience, have also expressed their skepticisim around the "claim straw" issue. The surest way to measure the validity of any hypothesis is by scientific research. Linda can most quickly move her theory from being merely speculative to validated by doing scientific research under an accepted format. The hosts of this listserv have a well-deserved reputation for this type of work. Jim Walters james-walters"at"uiowa.edu Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:23:40 -0800 Well then, explain the House Wren's sticks.... Hatch Graham Bruce Burdett wrote: To the Constituency, ... Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:25:05 -0800 Hi Dean: Then YOU explain the House Wren's sticks. He does it just for fun? Hatch Graham dean sheldon wrote: No one ever gave a better reply to this outlandish concept which has no ... Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 09:44:09 EST I just have a small question concerning these *claim straws*. I also took a photo of pieces of *claim straws* found in my nestbox this last October when my bluebirds were still around. This would not be nesting season so they would not have been putting materials in the box for that purpose. I had completely cleaned out my boxes of any bluebird nests after their last brood had fledged. Any ideas why they would put this material in the boxes in October? Sherry Hunter, Byron Center, MI Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 08:39:16 -0600 Hi Hatch--- Could you please elaborate further on what point you are trying to make concerning House Wren sticks and claim straws?? I don't quite understand what you mean. Do you mean the male House Wren goes around filling all of our nestboxes full of sticks because it is laying down a kind of "claim straw" to keep others away?? My understanding of House Wrens is that the female is the one that finally chooses a site to build her nest, which is chosen from one of the many sites the male has found and readied (with sticks) for her. The male, in order to insure he attracts a female to produce offspring, has a better chance of getting the female to accept a site if he has many sites ready for her to choose from. In my opinion, this is part of their courtship behavior and not them trying to keep other House Wrens away. If House Wrens stayed away from boxes that had nesting material as "claim straws" then I wouldn't have a problem with them taking over nestboxes that already have nests in them. Unfortuntely, this is not the case on my trail!! I've had House Wrens completely empty boxes that already had nests in them (even another House Wrens's nest) so they could build their own nest. I've had House Wrens build nests on top of other nests. The presence of nesting material did not deter the House Wrens from taking over the boxes. Maybe I'm completely missing the point you are making and misinterpreting it?? Could you please clarify what your disagreement is and give us your opinion on House Wrens/claim straws. Thanks--- -------------------------------------------------------------Original Message----- From: Hatch Graham [mailto:birdsfly"at"innercite.com] ... Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:52:00 -0500 [SEE COMMENTS BELOW] From: SHbirder"at"aol.com I just have a small question concerning these *claim straws*. I also took a photo of pieces of *claim straws* found in my nestbox this last October when my bluebirds were still around. This would not be nesting season so they would not have been putting materials in the box for that purpose. I had completely cleaned out my boxes of any bluebird nests after their last brood had fledged. Any ideas why they would put this material in the boxes in October? Sherry Hunter, Byron Center, MI [Hi: I do the same thing and clean out all of the boxes after the last fledging takes place....and for 20 years I have observed that there is something in almost every one of the boxes when I inspect them in mid-March as I get the boxes prepared for the upcoming season. That something could include everything from dried bird droppings (usually HOSP)...to fruit pits/seeds....to full-blown mouse nests which are fully occupied by the builders. There may be wisps of grass, feathers, fur, fruits, seeds or other detritus in other boxes, but, in no case has it ever been clear to me that any of this has been placed as a way of laying claim to a box for any purpose related to future occupancy of the box. I just do not believe that the concept of "claim straws" has any scientific validity whatsoever. I think that the testing of that concept would be a terrific research project and I wish that someone would undertake it. But until they do and until science-based research confirms the concept, I think that it should not be used. I think that this "observation" and "pronouncement" is not helpful to the cause of bluebirding. Dean Sheldon, Huron County, OH]] Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:06:50 EST Dean.... Thank you for your reply and comments on the term*claim straws* and materials found in nestboxes. As I am very new to bluebirding, this being my second year (if my bluebirds decide to return this year, haven't seen any yet) I am very interested in learning as much as I can about the blues. Sherry Hunter, Byron Center, MI(where it is snowing and 20*) [Hi: I do the same thing and clean ... Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:23:09 -0500 Hi all, My understanding is that one species can only breed with members of its own species. I have read in several places that the three varieties of bluebirds in North America, the Eastern, Western, and Mountain, are the same species. If this is the case, it seems it would be more accurate to describe these different classes of bluebirds as different races, not different species. And, if they are different races, not different species, then it seems that there would be reports each year of breeding between each of the three varieties. Is this happening? Classifying the Black Capped Chickadee and Carolina Chickadee as separate species brings up a similar question. Most sources indicate they are separate species, yet, there are reports that these two "species" do interbreed where their ranges overlap. If these observations are correct, then it seems the Black Capped Chickadee and Carolina Chickadee are also different races within the same species. Having been an avid birder in both Pennsylvania and Georgia, I am also aware that the songs of some birds of the same species are vastly different from region to region. Some writers have referred to these differences as separate "languages" within the same species. Someone familiar with the song of a Northern Cardinal that breeds in Georgia would never be able to identify the song of a Northern Cardinal in Pennsylvania. And, as for the Rufus Sided Towhee, I can't even imagine those in the north have the same vocal apparatus as the Rufus Sided Towhee that make the wonderful high pitched trills in the south. The Whitetail deer is also a single species. But, those in Georgia average about 20 percent lighter and shorter than those in Pennsylvania, and, those in Maine are another 10 to 15 percent heavier and taller than those in Pennsylvania. Is it possible the black Capped Chickadee, like the Whitetail deer, is larger in the northern parts of the country, and, that the smaller Carolina Chickadee is actually the same species with a different regional "language", much as the Cardinal and Towhee in the north and south have different languages? I hope someone can give me the most recent generally accepted terminology to describe the relationships between these different groups of blues and chickadees. I began to ponder this after reading about Linda Violet's observations of bluebirds leaving small amounts of nesting material in nest boxes, which, she refers to as "claim straws". Linda is very diligent and observant, has studied bluebirds year round in her home state of California, has worked with Hatch Graham, one of the country's most knowledgeable bluebirders, has described the claim straws on this list in much detail, photographed them, and even posted them on her web site. I have never seen any material in the bottom of one of my nest boxes that looks anything like what Linda refers to as claim straws. But, I live in Georgia, about 3500 miles east of California, and the bluebirds on my bluebird trail are Eastern Bluebirds, not Western Bluebirds. Linda has also described her bluebirds as remaining in male and female breeding pairs throughout the winter. Hear in the east the bluebirds spend most of the winter in small flocks of between 4 and 14 birds, not male and female pairs. Because Linda's bluebirds are much different than mine and because I know how diligent she works her trail, I'm betting there is something to the "claim straws" she finds. They always do things different in California. Gary Springer Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 00:23:30 -0500 (EST) On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Gary Springer wrote: My understanding is that one species can only breed with members of its own The three types of bluebirds are regarded as distinct species by the Cornell Ornithology laboratory (references below). All are members of the genus Sialia. Are the "several places" sources you were reading as reliable as these? Eastern Bluebird (Sialia sialis) [Genus=Sialia; Species=sialis. When Genus-species names are given the Genus name is always in uppercase and the species name, in lowercase, with both italicized.] http://birds.cornell.edu/birdhouse/speciesaccounts/EABLBIRD.HTM Mountain Bluebird (Sialia currucoides) http://birds.cornell.edu/birdhouse/speciesaccounts/MTBLBIRD.HTM Western Bluebird (Sialia mexicana) http://birds.cornell.edu/birdhouse/speciesaccounts/WESTBLUE.HTM Animals of different species within a genus do sometimes interbreed (but "breeding" is not the species criterion). If the hybrids of the cross are not fully fertile, the two species should be considered genuinely distinct. Many people are familiar with the example of the hinny and the mule that result from interbreeding of animals of two distinct species. http://gjfocus.com/wphr/html/wphr-muleregist.html Yours, Barry Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 03:11:44 -0500 Dear Barry, Thank you for helping me with this. Since the bluebirds in California are of a different species than those in the Eastern United States I believe it a very risky business to draw conclusions about the Western Bluebird based on observations of the Eastern Bluebird. This seems especially apparent since there are regional differences between some birds of even the same species, such as my earlier comments on the differences in song between the Cardinals and Towhees in the south compared to those in the north. Do you consider the Black Capped Chickadee and the Carolina Chickadee separate species? Do you put any credence in claims that there has been breeding between these two types of chickadees? If you do think they inter-breed, would you know if the off-spring are fertile? Looking forward to your reply. Sincerely, Gary Springer Original Message ----- From: "Barry Whitney" barryw"at"pebbles.mcg.edu ... Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 07:37:03 -0500 (EST) List: Regarding "claim straws", as my conventional style boxes crumble, I have been replacing them with TBBH. Until now, the Bluebirds have not failed to use the prepared pocket in the back of the box. Also, they have not failed to "carpet" the remaining entrance way with a light layer of nesting material. Cool huh?! Mike NW OH Bluebirds & Claim Straws? (Part 2) |
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