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Problems and Solutions with Cats, Raccoons (& other four legged creatures) and Nestboxes (Part 4)In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website: Predators and Problems On The Bluebird Trail. Also see Raccoons. Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 14:33:28 -0700 Chipmunks have caused a lot trouble on my trail the last 3 years, most of the broken eggs and missing eggs that I originally believed was the work of HOWR's were actually caused by chipmunks. After I found dead TRES and VGS alludes in boxes with their heads gone I knew it couldn't be caused by HOWR. I believe the chipmunk would enter the box and start eating the eggs and get suprized by swallow ,kill and eat them also or they could have caught the bird on the nest.and. killed it , smashing all the eggs in the process. They would take over after I had cleaned out the original nest and stuff it full of moss and leaves and tunnel in just like a HOSP. They killed about five swallow's last year , but no bluebirds. I tried putting boxes on greased poles but they just ran right through the grease. All of my boxes were originally mounted on trees or old snags, putting them on metal poles with a guard seems to have solved the problem. I used plastic milk jugs cut in half, cut a hole in the bottom and hung it on the pole just below the box . It works real good, they don't even try to get around it , cottage cheese containers work just as well. A real low budget predator guard!! Tom Long Afinechef"at"aol.com wrote: from Donna in Marlborough, CT ...[Note from webmaster: the majority of this post was moved to House Sparrows, Part 3.] One other thing that the rehabber told me that I've never seen mentioned on this List (I joined about a year ago) is that one of the biggest predators of baby birds is CHIPMUNKS! I was floored when she told me this. She's seen this with her own eyes in nests she has in her yard. She also told me that a chipmunk tunneled its way into her flight cage and was able to kill a grown male cardinal (the chipmunk ate only its head). The cardinal was able to fly by that point; apparently the chipmunk wore it out and then caught it. (This became Lesson eight for me). ... Donna in Marlborough, CT Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 04:33:31 -0400 on 5/22/02 9:43 PM, paul kilduff at plkldf"at"hotmail.com wrote: That pellet gun I jokingly promised Mary for mother’s day? ... Paul, Sorry to hear about your loss. It makes me want to run right out to make sure mine are OK. You're absolutely right about the cats. We have two of them so I'm not a cat hater but they have no business being outside. Keith K. posted something awhile back about giving stray cats a rubdown with a smelly concoction before sending it back to its owners. It's fun to imagine the smelly thing running straight home and into its neglectful owner's squeaky clean house! But the pellet gun is much easier, quicker, safer (for you) and, IMHO, a whole lot more effective. When I was a kid, my grandpa kept a BB gun next to the door and shot every stray dog or cat that dared set foot on his yard. His philosophy was that his yard was for his dog and not the the neighbor's. He never went out flapping his arms or yelling like a maniac when a stray came around. His method was much more subtle. He waited patiently until the stray was close enough to offer a fail-safe shot, cracked open the door just enough to poke the muzzle of his Daisy through, and then he squeezed the trigger. Phtt! YELP! and it was all over. The stray never came to associate that painful sting with a human. All he knew was that he got hurt every time he came into this particular yard. It didn't take but two of Grandpa's welcomes to teach even the dumbest critter in the neighborhood to stay out of the old man's yard. I learned that lesson 40 years ago but have never employed it. Never minded until now. I haven't had a real problem yet with cats or (racoons) but the sobering thought is that the law of averages is working against me and grief is inevitable. Two weeks ago, a neighbor came by asking if we'd seen her kitty. (I wished I had). And just the other night I was driving out and treed a coon in my own driveway. I used to think the dog's scent throughout the yard was keeping him out but I was wrong. We ran out of mealies a few days ago and my wife put some peanutbutter suet in the mealy feeder. The birds finished it but it left enough of a scent to tempt the coon into the yard that night. The next morning we went out to find the feeder lying on the ground. It's a scary thing to find that your sense of security has been false all along! You aren't the only one looking for a pellet gun. And a letter to the editor RE: stray cats might be in order, also. I know it won't help, but it will make me feel better. ... Larry VanZalen From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com -to Larry van Zalen, and stray cats everywhere, Your attitude toward stray cats is so much like mine that I felt that I was the one writing your post. The way I look at it, these cats, like mosquitoes, rats, mice, black flies, moles, House Sparrows, Starlings, earwigs, hornets, wasps, etc., are part of the natural world and so am I. Sometimes we cross paths, and when we do, each of us does what comes naturally. Eventually MY turn will come, and the natural world will find a way to eliminate ME,...... unless there's a radical change in the Scheme of Things. I wonder if any of you saw the recorded interview with the late Stephen Jay Gould the other night. (Gould did all the talking.) One of his points was that the world is not run by man (or stray cats or mosquitoes for that matter) but ultimately by bacteria, and that bacteria have been around googols (sic) of years longer than we have, and will still be here long after our ephemeral species has vanished. Even a discussion of stray cats can end up having cosmic implications. I think I'll touch on this in our next Socrates Café meeting. Bruce Burdett, in SW NH, where I think I may have my 2nd verifiable Bluebird nest of 2002. (Note: That closing sentence about the EABL makes this a permissible on-topic post.) (Right?) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 16:41:18 -0400 Without killing, I have successfully controlled feral cats around my apartment in central New Jersey. When I first moved in 3 years ago, there were at least 2 dozen stray cats and kittens running around, jumping in and out of the dumpsters, and screaming fights every night. In the course of a year, I trapped 9 females and 3 males and had them spayed/neutered. I adopted 2 of them as inside cats (added to my existing 2), and I keep the others who have stuck around well fed outside. There has not been a new kitten in over 2 years. Spay your females and the males won't come around any more. It seems that if communities, not just individuals, implemented trap-neuter-return programs, the feral cat problem could be eliminated in just a couple generations. This is much more efficient AND humane than trying to destroy generation after generation of strays (a new generation happens every six months). Feral cats are almost exclusively a problem of urban/suburban areas around human populations - garbage dumpsters, warehouses, etc. So I see the problem as an extension of human density and development, the same forces that have imperiled so many bird habitats. Of course, developers are much more difficult to control than cats, so we must scapegoat the cats! At my place, the outside cats now seem more interested in lying about in the sun than hunting (and a neighbor attracts a larger variety of finches to his patio than I have ever seen!). Alas, I cannot tell you that my cats have never killed a bird. Although they have almost exclusively brought me mice and voles, there has also been the occasional HOUSE SPARROW. This used to cause me great distress until I started subscribing to this list! There are organizations that provide financial assistance for T-N-R. If you're interested, reply and I'll direct you. Respectfully, P.S. Just so you're not too horrified, my plan is to attract bluebirds to my community garden, not my apartment! From: Theresa"at"BowEcho.com I had a nest about a month ago with five BB eggs in it. I waited a week to check it after the fifth egg was laid, and when I checked, all the eggs were gone. I think there is a racoon around here. I built a baffle for the bottom of the nest-box, and also made some predator guards for the entrance. Now I have a new nest (different box) that has four-five eggs in it. I put a predator guard on it ASAP. I do hope that I get some baby BBs out of this one. This is the same house that a family of TRES fledged from a month or so ago, and it's in a pretty safe location. Wish me luck. ...Theresa"at"BowEcho.com Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 10:18:13 -0700 (PDT) Hello all, I just subscribed to the list, and I know I'm supposed to wait for a while to post, but I have a problem. A raccoon killed my female and nestlings. It was my error--I was given the boxes as a housewarming gift and was not instructed to put them up correctly. I am now remounting the boxes with poles, new predator guards, and baffles. Too late for the last brood, I'm afraid... I haven't seen the male or the fledglings from the first brood since. The box is clean and empty. Will he/they return? Also, I have a squirrel feeder located about 60 feet from the bluebird box. The Duncraft people said the distance was fine, but the female was not appreciative of the squirrel activity, though they never went near her box. How far apart should these be? Without their own feeder, the squirrels were doing a number on my birdfeeder, so I'd like to keep it, if possible. But not at the expense of scaring the blues away. Thanks very much for the help! From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas Like a cat he exploded up into the air about 3 feet and drove his head deep into the fresh dirt and entrance hole of the gopher. He came up empty spitting dirt out of his mouth and shaking the fresh dirt off of his head. When he looked towards our window his face was plastered with dirt from his nose to his ears with only the dark eyes breaking this cosmetic mask. He gave a few futile scratches at the hole, sat down, scratched at a flea, walked back about 25 feet back toward us and picked up a dead bird. He had evidently been carrying this when either the wind carried scent to him or he heard the gopher digging. I feel that the bird was a starling but could have been a robin or a blackbird without tail feathers. It looked stiff in his mouth but could have been recently killed. We watched him for almost 1/2 and hour meander across the yard to the driveway and then walk away across our street, crossed a vacant lot heading back to town. A deep gully behind this lot has not been mowed in years and is only 2 blocks away from 1 ST street and a 500 student elementary school. Normally the fox will cross the driveway heading down through our woods and thickets and off towards the main creek. We gave the fox a good head start and then checked our Beagle's nose by letting him out the front door. Within 5 seconds his head snapped up and at a near gallop he was coursing across the front yard, head held high, catching pieces of half hour old scent drifting in the air. His hackles were raised and with hair standing on end he would now be about 4 inches shorter than the fox.....Within about 15 seconds he hit the cold trail of the fox about 30 feet before the point where the fox discovered the gopher. On a flat run now he went off in the wrong direction....With an incredible nose he detected within less than 30 feet his mistake and skidded into a flying U turn, he found the gopher mound where the fox had spent so much time in mere seconds and now on a full run shot across the yard with his nose to the ground, crossed the driveway where he again overshot the trail and missed the abrupt 90 degree turn the fox made going up the paved driveway. Never slowing from the high speed search he looped around in a large circle and hit the driveway 100 feet further up picking up the scent immediately and was across the vacant lot and into the woods behind the fox in less than one minute from the time he exited our front door. Within two minutes he was laying quietly on the rug again at the back door completely satisfied that he had again saved our front yard. We often fail to understand that all the predators have evolved into finely tuned search engines over the last million years or so. The surviving predators got that way because they have developed better eyes, better hearing, better noses and a brain capable of exploiting their unique muscle strengths. This fox already had a mouthful of dead bird cloaking it's nasal and taste buds with overwhelming scent for us and could detect another species of food 25 feet away while going at a fast trot.....A half hour after the fox was gone from the yard our beagle could tell the difference in scent still hanging in the air from the two dogs and three cats of our next door neighbor directly to the north that were flooding the area with scent continuously.... This dogs brain and nose had to pick out this scent from all the hundreds of kids and their parents that were letting them out of cars only three blocks away. He probably could tell which kids were cooked a breakfast and which ones didn't get a bath, three blocks away..... Most of us don't think that predators can find a nestbox full of stinky birds......Most of us never use predator guards.....Most birds are VERY lucky to live to flying age...Enjoy every tiny amazing piece of the natural world.....We are part of it and the only ones capable of making it better. Do something good, anything really, today and tomorrow and tomorrow... KK Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 18:50:25 -0700 Hi Keith You and I know, and now perhaps our readers, that no predator needs to follow a human scent to find its prey. Why would they? They don't want to prey on us. They don't get fed by humans to train them to follow us for food. We don't feed them that many kitties or puppy dogs and even if they get our cat food and dog food, they don't need to follow our trail to nestboxes. Being a wildlife biologist, and for 25 years a handler of search dogs (Mexico City 1985; Loma Prieta (SF) earthquake, 1989; Oakland Fire 1991; 100s of lost people) I am convinced most predators have scenting ability that is at least as good as my dogs which is phenomenal-- as your story tells so well. We have to retest our dogs every year. Last February, I was testing my then-3-yr old trailing dog who accompanies me on most of my monitoring. The test was an overnight trail walked by the "victim" along an established equestrian trail in a recreation area. Part of the person's trail was on a path, part cross-country. Another bluebirder has 45 boxes in the general area but I had never been there before. As my dog was working the trail, on a least 5 occasions, her head went up and she looked to the right or the left and there, off the trail about 30 feet would be a nestbox on a tree. I informed my evaluators of the fact that my dog was alerting on the nestboxes which she knew I was interested in. I showed them her "finds" each time, thereafter. She didn't pull off her assigned trail; she was following this overnight track which had had as many as 10 or 15 others traverse it and never pulled off on the nestboxes but simply acknowledged them in passing. Remember, this was February. The scent of the combination of birds, nests, and box was still identifiable to my dog from the previous year. Of course, she found our subject after a mile and half. Let's end the myth that predators follow our trails to nestboxes. From: Afinechef"at"aol.com Donna in Marlborough, CT Hi All, Regarding raccoon predation in bluebird nestboxes: I pulled out my copy of The Bluebird Monitor's Guide in order to do some research. On page 118, the authors describe an experiment they performed in which they proved hungry raccoons can scrape the bottom of an 8 inch deep nest box. Please keep this in mind when choosing a hole guard for your nest boxes. The authors also state that the main reason the stovepipe (Kingston) baffle works well as a raccoon deterrent is because it wobbles; it is the motion that makes it impossible for a raccoon to hold a grip on the pipe (page 115). Conclusion: make sure to not make the mistake of bolting a stovepipe baffle tightly to its pole! The authors state that the Don Hutchings designed PVC hole guard and restrictor combination is their favorite deterrent, for it effectively deters against cats and raccoons, and is convenient to install for nestboxes hung on utility poles or tree trunks. To quote: (the PVC hole guard and restrictor combination) "is made with a flat-topped 4 inch PVC sewer and drainpipe cap and a 6-inch length of 4-inch-diameter PVC pipe. The cap is drilled with two holes, one for bluebirds and one for chickadees. Either hole can be placed over the nestbox entrance hole and the cap screwed to the front of the nestbox. The 6-inch length of pipe fits into the cap and is held by three short screws that fit through holes drilled into the collar of the cap. The cap and pipe could be glued together, but a screwdriver with an extension would then be needed to attach the device to the nestbox." Don Hutchings recommends that locations with severe raccoon predation problems use 9-inch-long pieces of pipe--he found that to be 100% effective. Let me take just a moment to highly recommend to all you newly subscribed Bluebird-L members this book. Again, it is called The Bluebird Monitor's Donna in Marlborough, CT Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 09:24:44 -0700 (PDT) Stovepipe guards have been 100% effective against raccoons thus far. The Indiana trail is about 70% woods and 30% farmland and open fields. On the Illinois trail however, 99% is cow pasture, lawn or farmland. About 6 trees in nearly a 1 mile radius around my rental house. Many birds find those 6 trees to be a refuge or an oasis to stop by as they move about during the day. Problem; birds that are and some that are not even cavity nesters are always hanging around the nestboxes. Crows, Starlings etc concern me that the nestlings could make for an easy meal. The adult EABL are very diligent in protecting the nestbox, sometimes just taking turns perched on the nestbox for 20 minutes at a time. The mornings are particularily bad as the birds seem to congregate enmass. I have now found 7 dead birds in my backyard in the past 5 days or so. Seems that a small % of this mass of birds are just dying. I wonder if what I am seeing is typical or just the fact that so many birds group up in my backyard. Eyes wide open; always hoping for the sun From: "Nancy C. Hebb" Fencroft"at"msn.com Has anyone tried any of the deterrents claiming to repel coons, etc. via odor (spray-ons, etc. available through garden places)? I just did checks and found coon prints on two boxes and the nests destroyed (wren and bluebird), and am increasing the depth of the predator guards on the active boxes now....But I wondered if there'd be any merit in any of the repellant products or whether they were safe around boxes? I've caught one coon and am setting the live trap again tonight, but figured all avenues should be explored? NH in Michigan From: "Julie Craves" jcraves"at"umd.umich.edu I know this is an inflammatory topic, but it's my job to not only conduct but also disseminate scientific research, so we can have some facts on hand to temper our emotions. This is the abstract from a paper, Landowners and cat predation across rural-to-urban landscapes, just published in the journal Biological Conservation, by three Michigan State researchers. Fluctuations of bird abundances have been attributed to such factors as supplemental feeding,landscape change, and habitat fragmentation. Notably absent from consideration, however, is the role of private landowners and their actions, such as owning free-ranging domestic cats (Felis catus; cats allowed free access to the outdoors). To understand the impacts of cat predation on birds, we surveyed all 1694 private landowners living on three breeding bird survey (BBS) routes (~120 km) that represent a continuum of rural-to-urban landscapes in Southeastern Michigan, where the majority (90%) of land is privately owned. Our data indicate that among the 58.5% of landowners that responded, one quarter of them owned outdoor cats. On average a cat depredated between 0.7 and 1.4 birds per week. A total of 23+ species (12.5% of breeding species) were on the list of being killed, including two species of conservation concern (Eastern Bluebirds and Ruby-throated Hummingbirds). Across the three landscapes there were ~800 to ~3100 cats, which kill between ~16,000 and ~47,000 birds during the breeding season, resulting in a minimum of ~1 bird killed/km/day. While the number and density (no./ha) of free-ranging cats per landowner differed across the rural to urban landscapes, depredation rates were similar. Landowner participation in bird feeding showed no relationship with the number of free-ranging cats owned. Similarly, selected demographic characteristics of landowners were not significantly related to the number of free-ranging cats owned. Our results, even taken conservatively, indicate that cat predation most likely plays an important role in fluctuations of bird populations and should receive more attention in wildlife conservation and landscape studies. Julie A. Craves, Rouge River Bird Observatory University of Michigan-Dearborn http://www.rrbo.org From: John Schuster ... below is a list of other garden recipes that some folks maybe in interested in ... provided by my friend Bob Tanem, a local gardener, nursery owner for over 35+ years and radio talk show host in San Francisco (where I've been a guest talking about cavity nesting birds.) You can check out Bob's web site at: http://www.bobtanem.com/ ... Raccoon Chaser Use this recipe to create an unpleasant experience for your local racoons. They often do not refrequent a place where they have had an unpleasant experience. Try not to have accessible water nearby.
John Schuster From: Nancy C. Hebb, Fencroft"at"msn.com I've never seen a native cavity nester near here put off by the presence of dogs. In fact, I had three bb pairs, a downy, and a titmouse pair in boxes around the area where 10 dogs are let out to exercise three times a day. The boxes in the pastures aren't "safe" from a livestock guardian dog who lives with the sheep. It was the first year for these boxes and the presence of the dog didn't put off nesting, apparently. I've watched black capped chickadees continue to hang on sunflower plants while the dogs run around within feet of them. The blues don't seem bothered by them at all. Now, cats are another thing. When the birds see a cat, they sound off and usually take off...there's one cat in particular I'd love to catch! However, my next door neighbor has four boxes up and each year has two bb pairs and tree swallows take up residence. Within feet of one of the bb boxes used yearly is a hanging wren box, also used regularly. This is all in a small area the equivalent of a city yard, although there's more area beyond where the boxes are. The odd thing about her yard is that it's also frequented by about 20 cats!!! They are remnants from the neighbor on the other side of her, and we're trying to trap and neuter all of them (9 down, 11 to go!). I did observe that the birds were more nervous around puppies that were the size of cats! But the big dogs don't seem to affect the bird behavior....except for quail and pheasants, who take off but come back. Nancy Hebb S. Michigan From: Anne-Marie Palermino, ampalermino"at"msn.com Nancy: I fully agree with you. I have a German Sheppard and I let her roam the backyard freely. She goes out even when the EABL's are nesting and she has never bother them. I have a good selection of native birds such as titmice, chickadees, red bellied woodpecker, downies, eabls....She is only interested in squirrels. I would even add that she might deter skunks, cats... Cats are a problem, they are cruel and love birds since it is the hardest prey to catch. My cat has been an indoor cat for the last 3 year and she does not seem to mind. Anne-Marie From: Bruce Burdett, blueburd"at"tds.net Anne-Marie, et al, In my experience, dogs have never threatened songbirds in any way. In the old market-hunting days, in fact, trained "tolling-dogs" were used to ATTRACT ducks and geese within shotgun range. The birds' natural curiosity about dogs did them in. Bruce Burdett, SW NH (Sunapee). From: Dottie, Hickory Hollow, Brown County, Indianam yumyumkatts"at"voyager.net I have six outside dogs (my security force) and they run around my property and BB boxes at will and they have never tried to bother the Bluebirds. The Bluebirds don't mind them either. Could it be that the BB's also think of them as their security force? As far as cats, I'm also a cat lover and realize that their nature is to hunt. That's the way God made them. My cats have always been indoor cats. If I let them out, it would only be when I'm outside to watch them. However, I only have one Siamese, Yum Yum (what else), currently as my other kitties passed away. They were all close to 20 years old and had wonderful lives. My solution, if I should get another kitty (of course, KoKo), would be a cat walk which is a chain link cage like affair (6'X6'X6') that the kitties could go in and out at will and would sit outside my screened porch. It would have a top and be covered with lattice work. Inside would be a stone floor with many cat play toys and part of a tree for them to climb on. This way they can enjoy the outside and do as much birding as they want without harming the birds and vice versa--Eagles and hawks. If you are creative enough and look for bargains, a cat walk would be fairly inexpensive to make. Dottie, Hickory Hollow Brown County, Indiana (50 miles south of Indianapolis) Lat: 39.371N Lon: 86.261W Zone 5 Elevation: 680 ft From: judymellin, judymellin"at"netzero.net While I will always support keeping cats indoors for their own health and safety, I do have an affinity for strays. Why? Because two stray cats got me started on my birding career! Many years ago, on the Saturday night before the Bears only Super Bowl appearance, we heard a cat outside our patio doors. I thought it belonged to a neighbor a couple of doors down but found out the next morning that it wasn't. Thus came cat #1. That spring, a stray decided he wanted to live with us and managed to enlarge a small hole in a patio door screen by pushing it with his head. I discovered him half in and half out of the kitchen. Cat #2. Both cats wanted to be outside so we reached a compromise: they could be out while we were out evenings and weekends as long as they were on harnesses and leashes. It took about a week to train them (yes, despite what many people think, cats are highly trainable!) but it was so worth the effort- especially as people would slam on their brakes and back up to see two huge black cats peacefully watching fireflies. However, as the weather began to turn, I wondered how we would keep them amused when I got the bright idea to buy them a bird feeder. That way, they could lay in the sun inside the patio doors and watch the birds. Well, of course you know who got hooked! The cats enjoyed it and the birds seemed to, also, as they would jump up onto the patio step and drive the cats crazy since the cats couldn't get out. We also had squirrels that would climb the screen to harass them further. I bought a field guide, started going on bird walks and the rest, as they say, is history! Judy Mellin NE IL. From: Bruce Burdett To: Fencroft"at"msn.com Nancy, et al, A live outdoor cat is still a killer, neutered or not. One of our responsibilities is to feed and water two indoor cats for our neighbors when they're away. Very elaborate precautions are taken to be certain that these two very lovable cats never, ever get outdoors, - both for the birds' sake, and for the cats own sake. (Cars, coyotes, log trucks, dogs, Fishers, poison, rifles, pistols and shotguns) Bruce Burdett, SW NH From: Nancy C. Hebb, Fencroft"at"msn.com We are simply trying to prevent MORE outdoor cats. These are feral cats, females producing three litters a year thanks to other irresponsible people who didn't spay/neuter. There's nothing else short of shooting and disposing of 20 felines that is an option: The animal control officer won't bother with them. My neighbor who's dealing with the problem is 80 and unable to drive, so I haul them back and forth to the vet's for her. Of all 20, I've only seen one bother birds, and we've agreed he needs to be "taken care of" in another way should he ever prove foolish enough to be caught....we've been trying to "get" him all year. We have lots of ground nesting birds around the farm, too, including some of the species mentioned on the list. The dogs haven't destroyed any habitat or bothered the young. Certainly they're a lot less of a threat than coyotes, fox, raccoons! And the presence of the livestock guardian dogs actually discourages those predators, and cats out around the fields, too. The cats hang around the barns, hunting mice if anything, and eating the food the neighbor provides on a limited basis. She's never had a cat get any of the wrens, swallows, or blues nesting in her yard. Chipmunks, yes. Maybe, like coyotes, cats develop specialties? I know if coyotes in your area don't have a habit of killing sheep, you should KEEP them there, as disposing of them will encourage new ones to enter the territory, and those MIGHT be sheep killers. Nancy From: Keith & Sandy Kridler, txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net Dogs: Our neighbors German Shepard routinely catches the Starlings that eat from it's food dish and bath in it's water dish. It also occasionally catches grackles and robins while bluebirds perch on the fence. At the high school the other day one of the students said that their Labrador retriever is often "playing" with a dead bird. Some friends who have four free roaming dogs often find dead chickens or ducks that were too slow. We have a few adult wild turkeys being re-introduced in this county and their dogs captured one of the half grown wild turkey's and brought it into their yard.... Dogs are opportunistic! I get calls every year from people who came home and found their dogs had killed an entire family of baby wood ducks. In urban or rural areas with large numbers of free roaming dogs stop and think how many of the ground nesting birds you see in your area! It has been years since I have seen quail or meadow larks nesting. Whip-poor-wills are rarely heard and killdeer are rare also. Road runners are seen a couple times a year near large ranches. I never really bothered to learn all of the "little brown birds" but I have not seen a Fox, Song or Harris sparrow in a couple of years. Of course the imported fire ants have become epidemic in the 90's in this area and wild hogs are now seen in herds of 30 or more and are being routinely trapped & shot well inside the city limits of Mt. Pleasant. It takes a LOT of eggs or dead chickens to keep 350 pound hogs fat! So meadow larks and quail would not even make a good snack. Cats: We all know they catch and kill if the opportunity arises. All of the students who had cats had seen them with dead birds, even the "house cats" left out for only a few minutes alone. Like Nancy I also believe the common cavity nesting birds have adapted better to living with our pets but this does not mean that many young cavity nesters that leave the nest early and cannot fly do not get eaten/killed by cats and dogs. I have several nestboxes on my street mounted on fences with dogs on one side and they raise native cavity nesters but I don't see any open nesting birds nesting low to the ground with dogs or free roaming cats. Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas From: Dottie, Hickory Hollow, Brown County, Indiana We had two dogs that live in our area to come over one day, before I had my dogs, and kill our chickens. We haven't had chickens since then but hope to have some next year. I don't know what my dogs will do but if they do want to chase them, then we will have to put up a pen or try to train them not to chase the chickens. We have wild turkeys and turkey vultures to come up as well as deer but my dogs don't try to bother them. I also have big crows that come up to eat the leftover dog food as well as other birds but my dogs don't try to chase them either. I did have two Canada geese that used to land on our lake and come up honking and honking right to the edge of the lake to tease my dogs. The geese had a lot of fun with that--for awhile--until my dogs learned that they couldn't get out to them. The geese gave up finally and haven't been back. Dottie, Hickory Hollow Brown County, Indiana (50 miles south of Indianapolis) Lat: 39.371N Lon: 86.261W Zone 5 Elevation: 680 ft From: Linda Violett, lviolett"at"earthlink.net Keith touched on some of the points of why some native birds do not fare well in dog-laden urban environments by pointing out the open nesters or slower birds. The reason I will not choose surrounding yards in my neighborhood for the Bewick's Wren box is because large dogs have trampled over and through any available shrubs and green space. When they poop near the bushes, the owners clean it up and there is no leaf litter left for wrens to forage. Now, with Bluebirds, dogs are no problem. In fact, I specifically look for dog yards which back up to parks with hopes they will alert the neighborhood to potential vandals. Plus, owners of dogs tend to get upset when kids are near their dog yard with BB-guns. Linda Violett - Yorba Linda & Big Bear, Calif. From: XXX, Rebecca This is off-topic, but I thought someone from Bluebird-L might know the answer or might be able to refer me to an authoritative source: We are going to need to trap a raccoon that is trying to make a hole in the side of our house. My question is: Once trapped, is it humane to take the raccoon to a nearby state park and release it? I know that with some wild animals, it's considered inhumane to release them in a habitat that is unfamiliar and may also already be another animal's territory. If we call our local animal control, they will come euthanize it. Which it the more humane approach? Thanks for your help, Rebecca J. Columbia, MD From: Fawzi P. Emad, femad"at"comcast.net Some time ago we had many ground hogs digging all around the house! They are cute, specially mothers with their babies. But it was not good for our basement sump pump when the rains came down. I got a "hav-a-hart" trap. I also applied for a MD trapping license. Yes, I became a licensed trapper in the state of Maryland! It cost me at that time $2. The best thing is they sent me information on how to trap, and where to dispose of the live trapped animals. I trapped about 10 "hogs" that year, all were driven most carefully to a special release point (about a 45 minute drive each way,) and let go! I felt very happy they are going to a nice park. I think this is the best approach if you have the time and inclination. Take care... Fawzi. Fawzi Emad in Laytonsville, Maryland femad"AT"comcast.net From: XXX, Rebecca Thanks, Fawzi. (Imagine, a licensed trapper!) Another writer inspired me to check on Maryland law, according to which it is apparently illegal to relocate raccoons because of the fear of rabies. I'm going to check on this tomorrow, then may consider trying to repel the raccoon with predator urine instead of trapping it. I'm glad you were able to find a happy solution for your groundhogs (and your sump pump!) Rebecca J. From: PaulaZ"at"columbus.rr.com Someone recently posted a question about relocating raccoons. I do not know what their survival rate is if relocated, but can relate a little experience for caution's sake. Many years ago, I was bound and determined to capture the wily raccoon that would climb a post every night and knock the heck out of my hummingbird feeder. All the sugar water would be gone the next morning. And as is my way, rather than make a $3 raccoon baffle, I opted for the $50 havahart trap. That summer, I trapped 12 raccoons and took them at least 5 miles away and released them in a park. During one release, I opened the trap and the raccoon ran about a foot or so and then turned on me and ran toward me hissing. Luckily, I was up against the back of my car so just fell backward into the open trunk to get away from him. Now you can all be the judge as to who laughed louder, those of you reading this or the raccoon. As with most of my little adventures, I did learn a valuable lesson. You would hope that the lesson would be to leave the raccoons alone, but I had not yet trapped the culprit and was getting tired of making sugar water every day. From then on, I released them at the top of a river bank and opened the downhill side of the trap so gravity and momentum took the animal far from me, and yes, I left the trunk open just in case.... After my Raccoon Summer, the neighbors on my street were pleased that their garbage cans were no longer being raided. I made 12 trips totalling approximately 120 miles. I was still replacing the sugar water every morning for the hummingbirds. AND I finally got that $3 raccoon baffle (which solved my problem). Paula Z Powell (Central) Ohio From: Evelyn Cooper, emcooper"at"bayou.com Speaking of relocating anything, on another listserve, there's been pretty stiff argument against it,even against rehabbers for releasing anything in a different place than it was raised. They talked about the chances of it being accepted in other territory than their own was low and the chances for it to survive was not good. Does anyone know what the law is on relocating raccoons? ... One point was made about releasing any wild creature in unfamiliar territory was that the other's would not accept it and probably kill it. This may not apply to racoons. Evelyn From: XXX, Rebecca From: Rebecaa J The predominant advice I've been given since my original raccoon post is that raccoons are adaptable and not especially territorial, so relocation is not terribly problematic from that point of view. Unfortunately, however, that's not the whole story. I have also found out that it's against the law in Maryland and many other states to relocate raccoons because of the fear of spreading rabies. By Maryland law, trapped raccoons must be euthanized. Also, a license is required in Maryland to legally trap raccoons. Finally, anyone trapping raccoons must beware of raccoon roundworm (baylisascaris), an parasitic infection for which there is no cure in dogs cats or humans if contaminated (see http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/parasites/baylisacaris/default.htm) Life is complicated. Rebecca J. From: Paula, PaulaZ"at"columbus.rr.com Evelyn, I did learn my lesson after Raccoon Summer and have not done this again. This was a long time ago. I have learned that the best way to control unwanted wildlife is to refuse them access to the place they are causing the problem. Several years ago, a family of raccoons discovered the dog food bin in the garage. This time I merely purchased a container with lid with handles that kept it tightly closed and no more problems. The only creature I trap now is the HOSP and that is only because I cannot stop his accessing the nestbox and because he is not a native animal. I have since heard the same thing you mention about territory and survival of relocated animal being in question. My sister is a vet tech and also told me that if the raccoon has rabies, it can be transmitted through the air if animal is hissing and spitting and you have an open cut. In any case, not a wise interaction. Paula From: JOHN & BARBARA SIBIO, jsibio"at"comcast.net My brother once had a problem with raccoons killing is bantam chicks. He consulted with the local SPCA, then trapped them and released them in another area. He soon discovered that there was always another raccoon to replace the one he relocated, and started keeping his chickens in the barn at night. Of course, he lived out in the woods, so he had a lot of "wild critter" problems. Lots of people have problems with the raccoons eating dog and cat food which is left outside -- the solution, of course, is not to provide them with easy access. I had problems with them eating from my platform feeders when I lived in Sonoma, and tried different ideas to foil them, but they won out in the end. They're smart, and adaptable. They are also dangerous, so it's best to have as little contact with them as possible. So far they haven't messed with the bluebird nestbox, and I haven't seen them in my garden here (yet). Barbara in Cloverdale CA From: John Schuster, wildwingco"at"earthlink.net Dear Friends, The topic of Raccoons and what to do with these clever little fellows is a challenge indeed. My very first experience with Raccoons happened when I was 5 years old at Big Sur State Park, CA. It was my birthday, an my mother (not knowing about Raccoons) placed my birthday cake (that was covered by a screwed down lid) on top of our picnic table and off the family went to enjoy a large camp fire provided by the park ranges. When we got back from the camp fire, 4 large Raccoons (everything seems large when your 5 years old) had unscrewed the lid to the container and had gorge themselves on my birthday cakes (I'll never forgive then for that.) My parents then placed all of us kids (4 in number) in the car while they chased off the Raccoons. The last thing I remember was looking out the open window of our car as a Raccoon looked up at me and gave me a memorable "HISS" as it walk passed. Besides up turned garbage cans, emptying hummingbird feeders, strangling chickens through the chicken wire of their chicken-coops and of course gorging on my birthday cake , Raccoons do their fair share of damage by eating the eggs of cavity nesters (tree cavity nesters and nesting boxes without guards) that allow them access to the eggs inside. Furthermore, many Wood Duck hens are killed each year by marauding Raccoons that reach inside to strangle the Wood Duck hen that ends up falls lifeless onto of her eggs at the bottom of her nest box. Under the deprecating laws of the Fish and Game Department of the state of California (and this appears to be true with the rest of the country too) you have a legal right to deal with Raccoons when they damage property and included lethal measures. ... In my opinion, the best way to deal with Raccoons is to first talk with your local Game Warden or local Fish and Game department, explain your Raccoon challenges, and get their take on the situation before you take any course of action. John Schuster ... From: Bet Zimmerman, ezdz"at"charter.net In CT at least, homeowners are prohibited from trapping or shooting wildlife unless the animal has been actively causing property damage or is an obvious threat to public safety. LIVE TRAPPING AND RELOCATION OF CERTAIN RABIES-PRONE SPECIES SUCH AS RACCOON, SKUNK AND FOX IS PROHIBITED IN CT. This restriction is necessary to reduce the spread of disease and to minimize the negative consequences associated with wildlife relocation. Relocation of wildlife may transfer the original problem to someone else, subject the relocated animal to increased stress and mortality, and disrupt wildlife populations native to the relocation area. Using more effective and permanent controls such as animal proofing methods and eliminating wild animals' access to food and shelter should be emphasized. Shooting must comply with any local firearms ordinances. If you want to hire someone to trap, relocate and release raccoons, go to your state natural resource/wildlife/environmental protection agency website, and look for licensed Nuisance Wildlife Control Cooperators (NWCOs). These people are not state employees, and do charge for their services, but are trained, and at least in CT, are required to pass an examination which assesses their knowledge of policies and procedures and animal identification, habits and life histories. Listings are usually by county and species. In some states you need to call the State wildlife agency to get a list of licensed NWCOs. The trapping or removal of rabies-prone species by NWCOs is encouraged only if the animal is causing property damage or if there is a high probability of contact with humans or domestic animals. I just read about a woman who had a raccoon invade her home through her dog door. It attacked her dog. She grabbed the raccoon by the tail and separated them. Not a good move in this case, as it turned out the raccoon was rabid (luckily she was not bitten.) *************** There is a lot of discussion on preventing raccoons and other four-legged creatures from raiding bluebird nestboxes on the archived Best of Bluebird_L threads at http://www.bestofbbml.audubon-omaha.org/cats.htm Here's some info from the State of CT DEP website on Management of Problem Raccoons: Because of their ability to coexist with humans, raccoons can become a nuisance when they damage gardens, raid garbage cans or inhabit human structures. They can be especially destructive on farms, where they feed heavily on crops. Because of their susceptibility to rabies, problem raccoons cannot be relocated and wildlife rehabilitators can only accept them for rehabilitation with certain restrictions. However, some raccoon problems can be controlled using preventive measures. To deter raccoons from raiding garbage cans, several modifications can be made. Snaps can be attached to the lid and the handle can be secured to a stake driven into the ground. Placing cans in wooden bins or in the garage may also eliminate raccoon raiding problems. Some people have had success with placing ammonia directly in the can to repel raccoons. Pet or livestock food should not be left outside where it is available to raccoons. Bird feeders should be placed away from trees or other structures that can be climbed by raccoons. Raccoons can easily access roofs by climbing trees, downspouts, vines, or a trellis located near the house. Therefore, to prevent raccoons from entering houses, roofs and chimneys should be well-maintained. Replace loose shingles, repair any holes near the eaves of the roof and securely place a chimney cap over the chimney. Limiting the access to the roof by trimming trees and shrubs may also be helpful. The simplest and most effective, permanent solution to the problem of raccoons living in a chimney is to cap it. However, there may be young present, depending on the time of year. If the young are old enough to climb out, cap the chimney after the raccoons have left for the night. Sometimes, a female raccoon can be encouraged to move her young to another location by the use of repellents, such as ammonia or moth balls, combined with a light and noise from a portable radio placed near the damper. Electric fences may help to keep raccoons out of gardens. The wires must be spaced close together and close to the ground in order to be effective. On farms, where more effective methods are needed to control a large number of animals, hunters and trappers can harvest problem animals on the property during the regulated hunting and trapping seasons or by special permit at other times of the year. From: charlene anchor [mailto:charleneanchor"at"msn.com] Would spraying PVC pipes or metal poles with pepper spray be helpful in deterring four-legged predators? I would tend to think not but I'm not sure. Wonder if it has been tried? Charlene Anchor, Illinois From: Kenny Kleinpeter [mailto:kpkmajk"at"cox.net] Hey, Charlene. I wouldn't use a substance that might blind, even temporarily any creature – even a snake. When dealing with predators, my first question is, “Will this action, barrier or substance cause any harm?” As much as I hate snakes, owls, sparrows and starlings, I respect and admire their cunning, persistence and abilities. I want to stop them from eating “my” birds and their eggs and young, but I don't want to hurt them. This includes sparrows and starlings. As strange as it may sound, I kill them, but I don't hurt them. My traps are deliberate and closely monitored. I dispatch them quickly and as painlessly as possible. I like to remember that it's not the predator's fault that it is attracted to “the table that I've set” in attracting birds to nestboxes, it is my fault. I need to be responsible enough to devise ways to protect those birds that I've taken upon myself to lure for my personal entertainment. But, I love nature , not just bluebirds. Those snakes and sparrows are part of that nature. While we humans have “done a number” on nature, upsetting a balance that bluebirds may have maintained for eons, today I want to do everything I can to keep bluebirds a viable part of the remaining nature. We can do it without harming protected species, I'm sure. Thanks for letting me get on my little soapbox. J Kenny Kleinpeter, Baton Rouge , LA From: Ernie Tucker [ mailto:ernie724"at"citlink.net ] I need to be whipped with a wet noodle or something - but someone last week sent me a link on stovepipe guards and I can't locate it anywhere. I now am really looking for some specific help on stopping raccoons. Something cleaned out a EABL nest with 6 egges and I now know it was a coon. We hadn't seen one around here in years. The nest box was - and still is - on a wooden 4x4 lamp post. Before I could take it down. I repaired an enlarged opening, cleaned it out - and another pair started their nest-building activities. I procrastinated - and the other evening while sitting in my recliner by the open deck door I heard a noise that sounded like it was coming from the metal tubular predator guard I have on a bird feeder on the rail of the deck. I got up, flipped the deck light on and see a raccoon staring back at me from the top of the feeder, I went roaring out onto the deck cursing the beast heartily and he leaped from the top of the feeder to the ground - more than 20 feet below. Unfortunately it survived the fall. It has now been visiting each evening - twice last night after I ran him off the first time. He or she (probably a female since it's so wily) is climbing up and over the commercial tube guard which is wonderful against squirrels. Now - what do I do to stop her - short of breaking out the shotgun? Are there plans for a coon=proof guard for a post? Is there a scent which might discourage them. Is there an electrical something which might discourage them with a mild shock. What can I do??? Ernie, On the Cumberland Plateau in TN From: PTom [ mailto:ptom"at"austin.rr.com ] There's a plan for the Kingston Stovepipe Predator Baffle on www.texasbluebirdsociety.org in the "Building Plans" section (there's a tab for "Predator Baffle"). Pauline Tom, Mountain City (no mountains) TX From: Larry A Broadbent [mailto:rockets"at"mnsi.net] Ernie, First opportunity you have, put up your nestbox(s) on round metal poles. Install a Kingston stovepipe predator guard and or grease ( axel grease or synthetic oil) the metal pole. This will keep raccoons, other critters, and snakes from climbing your pole and raiding you nestbox(s). A nestbox on a wood pole or attached to a tree is a sure invitation to any climbing predator. Yes, in the natural environment, birds nest in woodpecker holes and natural cavities in trees and fence posts, BUT, they have a lower percentage success rate than nestboxes mounted on metal poles and equipped with predator guards and or greased poles. You can purchase live Raccoon traps to trap your Raccoon, but you will have to check with your local State sources to see if you are allowed to relocate this Raccoon as far from your place as you can. Regards, Larry A Broadbent From: JOHN & BARBARA SIBIO [mailto:jsibio"at"comcast.net] I was in the office of the county animal shelter yesterday, adopting a kitten :-), when a man came in with a raccoon in a trap. He filled out the paperwork required, and the technicians took the raccoon away. I didn't realize that this was an option for residents here -- I thought you had to take care of raccoon problems yourself. I know people trap them and reloate them, but I don't know if it's legal or not; but if I ever have a raccoon problem I'll turn it in to the county shelter! You should check with your local animal control agency. Barbara in Cloverdale, CA From: Christine Brown_Richard Poole [mailto:Catbird"at"cfl.rr.com] Four nesting attempts; 3 bluebirds, 1 carolina wren. One successful; bluebird. Bear got the other three. Any suggestions???? Also. Do parents remove dead young from the nest box? Richard Poole Longwood, FL From: Joe Huber [mailto:hubertrap"at"webtv.net] Hi Richard, Sometimes Bluebirds will remove the dead if not too large. This is a good job for you since you know they are dead and need to be removed from the nest. It's not a pleasant task for either you or the bluebird, but should be done soon. Are any alive in this nest? If not it probably wouldn't hurt to remove the entire nest. Don't know any cure for the Bear problem tho. Best of luck. Joe Huber, Venice, Florida From: Bet Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net] That is a sad story, but thank you for sharing it! A rehabber told me that animals attacked by cats hardly ever survive. Apparently the cats have a lot of nasty bacteria in their mouths and the infections or internal injuries are too much. I tried to save a baby bunny (even got it to drink some milk from a bottle) and it died, heartbreaking.... Bet From: Leah [mailto:lsollida"at"bellsouth.net] Thanks for your note, Bet. Animals attacked by cats DO most certainly survive, if the appropriate measures are taken. It is vitally important that a course of antibiotics are begun ASAP because of the potential danger of pasturella bacteria. The statistics are something like 75% of cats have this deadly (to other animals) bacteria in their mouths. If antibiotics are begun as quickly as possible, the chances of survival are actually very good - unless, of course (as in the case of the female in my story), the injuries themselves are so bad that vital organs have been compromised. I just don't want anyone to come away with the impression that if an animal has been caught by a cat, there is no hope. There is always hope, and I have gone on to eventually release MANY, MANY victims of cat attacks - both birds and mammals. ...Leah Solliday NE Florida From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com] ...the farmers around here wouldn't put up with a cat like this! Reminds me of the story told by the crusty old guy that built our house - they lived in it for years before selling to someone else. When we moved here, I restored his nestboxes. One day, he was back in the area, and drove by the "old homestead" and saw his nestboxes with bluebirds. He stopped to introduce himself and of course, to see the blues. One story that he related, was about a big, black Tomcat that happened to belong to the one & only neighbor. Bill's position on cats was "1 strike & you're out!" Just so happened that Blackie got his one strike in (luckily the bird escaped) and Bill reached for his gun. Instead of dropping, Blackie ran for home. Of course, Bill was expecting an irate phone call. A few days later, Bill ran into Blackie's owner, who asked, "Did you hear about Blackie?" While Bill searched for the right words to explain about how the cat was chasing birds, she continued, "Yeah, we ran over him with the car." One moral of the story: outside cats are not safe. Disclaimer - I do not endorse this method of dealing with cats :-) Dottie Roseboom Peoria IL (central - zone 5) NABS member From: Bruce Burdett Phil, Snoopy, et al, I have found that cats are strongly influenced by BB guns, air rifles, pellet guns, CO2 guns, etc. They aren't really hurt, but they are STUNG meaningfully, and usually don't return to the place where they had this memorable experience. Sent: 06/14/2004 - From: lviolett"at"earthlink.net [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 2:36 AM Subject: Re: Leah's story Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. BB pellets do more than simply sting a cat. Years ago, a neighbor's outdoor cat adopted me. It became ill and I received permission to have it examined by a vet. X-rays revealed the cat had two BB pellets; only one of the pellets could be safely removed. From: Shane&Emily Marcotte [mailto:marco50"at"bellsouth.net] If you use a pellet rifle you can pump it up with a desired pressure.3 pumps would sting a cat......say 8 or 9 would penetrate the hair and skin.I use what are known as "Bird Bangers" and whistlers.They are designed to scare offending birds from crops and airports. (I never fire these at birds!!!!) but an offensive cat sure gets a heck of a scare and I've not seen one return to my area after a scare. It consist of a small .22 cal pistol that is not unlike a flare gun. The ammo is a fire cracker about the size of a tube of lipstick. You simply aim near the offending animal, fire and watch as it explodes 2 or 3 seconds later.Sounds like a shotgun blast or in the case of the whistler, well a 5 second whistle(I'm guessing about 180db).I consider them humane as nothing is hurt or killed, just effectivly startled.Ahhhh and the 4th of July around here goes down with a "BANG". Any one interested e-mail me offlist and I'll supply the source and cost ect. Shane Marcotte Watson Louisiana LBBS Member From: Shane&Emily Marcotte [mailto:marco50"at"bellsouth.net] Hello, There is an overwhelming response to my post concerning bangers.No, I dont personally sell them.Go to www.reedjoseph.com to see what they offer.The pistol for a single shot is about $30 and a box of bangers is about $42.Sorry I couldnt help all individually. Thanks! ... Shane Marcotte Watson Louisiana LBBS Member From: Blubabies"at"aol.com [mailto:Blubabies"at"aol.com] I do not have a problem with neighborhood cats. However, I have a birder friend who traps them with a raccoon trap and turns them in to the humane society. ( She also traps raccoons and relocates them to protect her birds.) If the cats are trapped a second time, they get their collar removed and then turned in. How can you love an animal and let it be exposed to the dangers of running the neighborhood? Perhaps it deserves a new home. From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com] Yep, Shane, aren't these the neatest things? My husband used them at work and then got one for me. One caution though - we live on 7+ acres and are surrounded by fields, woods, etc. so the cats learned to associate the whistler with our house and avoided it like the plague. However, I could still see them slinking through cover around our property lines, occasionally glancing over a shoulder toward our house. All I had to do was step in front of a window for them to be gone in a flash. Because I do have several nestboxes close to the property lines, I was still concerned about the cats. Now, whenever I spot a cat, I lie-in-wait for him OUTSIDE, so they associate the noise/smoke with the property, not only the house. Last summer, one wily old cat liked hunting on my property more than he was scared of the noise. I worried about him for several months, until I saw him dead on the highway. Bittersweet to know that the birds were safe because his owner had not protected him from cars. BTW, our instructions warned about wearing ear protection because of the noise. (and be sure to tell the spouse before shooting at a cat :-) Dottie Roseboom Peoria IL (central - zone 5) From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Does anyone know where a wooden face guard can be purchased? Evelyn Cooper Delhi, LA From: Kelley Family [mailto:herbsho"at"epcwc.com] A fellow trail monitor/neighbor reported that a box on his trail mounted on a metal pole and equipped with a wire mesh guard had the guard cruppled into a ball and the box robbed. We are certain that it was a racoon. Stovepipe baffles on a metal posts are the best defense for four legged creatures and dumb snakes. From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] I do have the Stovepipe baffles, but eggs were disappearing and I put the wooden block over the hole and it stopped. I just need to know if there is a site they can be purchased. It was put on to stop larger birds from getting the eggs. Evelyn From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com] Theresa, I have never heard that a wire-mesh guard would keep HOSP out of nestboxes. The wire-mesh guards supposedly prevent raccoons & cats from reaching into the nestbox & grabbing a baby.... From: Tyler Mann [mailto:t_mann05"at"hotmail.com] i just checked one of my gilbertson boxes to find 4 of the 5 EABL babies gone with most of the nesting material missing. i also have a EABL pair in the front yard of babies of the same age and placed the orphan with the others. there are 5 in there now. what is strange is there is also a dead baby under this other box also. but there was only 4 in the box before i added the orphan. i do believe those babies could have also been victims if it wasnt for my dog. before i had went to check my boxes she had killed a half-grown raccoon. is there anything else i should do to make sure this baby survives? i think i am going to move the predated box to a different location. also is there any predator guards for gilbertson boxes? any help is appreciated tyler in west central ohio From: Autumn L. Kruer [mailto:autumnk"at"iglou.com] [Note from webmaster: in response to a question about whether to use predator guards on metal conduit used to mount nestboxes] ...I'd use predator guards on the poles. I use metal poles and one has a stovepipe baffle with mesh, another has a domed piece of sheet metal. Keeps out coons, possums, snakes and other things that you wouldn't think could crawl that pole. I've had a mother and 3 baby coons fishing around my pond, just 50' from my bluebird boxes, and they haven't gotten to them. Autumn in Kentucky From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net] ...Predators: Most people install nestboxes and when they have losses they start to worry about predators. The Kingston stovepipe guard is the best all around guard. It needs to be mounted high enough to keep a predator from jumping to the top of the guard. Some of the southern parts of Tennessee already have fire ants and you need to grease the pole to stop them in addition to the stovepipe guard. Waxing the metal conduit poles normally do not stop a healthy raccoon. Steve Eno filmed a wild trapped raccoon practically running up a smooth waxed 1/2" diameter conduit pole in their raccoon tests. KK From: Burnham, Barbara [mailto:Barbara.Burnham"at"zzz.zzz] Shawn, Welcome to bluebirding! And congrats on having successful bluebirds! I wish you many more! I'm sure Keith will reply, but I would like to chime in about the raccoons. A proper raccoon baffle is CHEAP insurance, and worth the time and effort. Here is a link to an easy-to-make, inexpensive baffle for your metal poles: http://www.purplemartin.org/update/PredBaff.html. Since raccoons are mostly nocturnal, we humans often don't see them. But they live happily almost everywhere, city and country, and often near human habitations where they can raid trashcans, bird feeders, nestboxes, leftover pet food, thrown out human food, dumpsters, etc. Raccoons can leap from a fence, tree, or roof, they can climb or shimmy up almost anything, and can reach their paws waaaay inside a nestbox. (However, the roadkill raccoons are perfectly harmless, LOL.) There is nothing worse than finding soon-to-fledge little blue wings on the ground without the rest of the fledgling, knowing they were torn apart alive by a raccoon. Raccoons will take adult birds, eggs, or babies, and once they have learned where to find them, they will return again and again. Glad you asked the question so you can prevent disaster! ... Perhaps there is a way to prevent that. Barbara Burnham Ellicott City, MD From: EHDerry"at"aol.com [mailto:EHDerry"at"aol.com] Tonight we attended a presentation by an Audubon ornithologist. The subject was woodpeckers in New York State. The presenter (who birded years ago with Roger Tory Peterson), stated that the biggest predator of cavity nesting birds is the chipmunk. I had never heard this before, and wondered if List participants have had problems in the past with chipmunks. I see them as being much more difficult to deal with than raccoons (due to their size). I have never heard of them being a concern - at least for the bluebird. Judy Derry Lockport, NY From: KimMarie Markel [mailto:auroramn"at"verizon.net] Chipmunks??? Really??? Judy, I'm only, what, 30 -40 miles southeast of you and "our" Chipmunks prefer the ground tunnels and dens (in fact they are driving us crazy right now) My "furry mamal" problem with natural cavities and boxes near trees or shubbery this time of year are the Red and Flying Squirrels. Can anyone else comment on this, because like Judy, I've never heard of this being a concern (locally) and I haven't seen this here (but all my boxes are mounted with conduit). kimmarie :) Buffalo/Varysburg, Western NY From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com] Judy, Just a couple of weeks ago, I read an article about chipmunks being very effective at detecting eggs & nestlings, especially in ground nests. The article didn't happen to mention nestboxes, but I immediately was thankful for baffles. From personal experience I know that chipmunks are avid climbers & jumpers. The purpose of the article was to explain about a chipmunk population explosion that was occurring in subdivisions with large lots & woodland edges (ideal habitat). Of course, with so many people feeding birds, chipmunks thrive. Larger populations have the capability of causing more harm. I have noticed that we have a nice population in our front yard, but very few on the "back 40". Perhaps due to more predators? Did he offer any suggestions about baffles or population control? Dottie Roseboom From: Afinechef"at"aol.com [mailto:Afinechef"at"aol.com] Hello to the List, A couple of years ago I had a rogue male HOSP attack my nest of white-breasted nuthatches in one of my yard nestboxes. Three of the nestlings survived his attack and I took them to a local rehabber for care. (Some of you may remember my sad tale on this subject from before). This rehabber, who is also a long-time volunteer at our local Audubon society, told me that the number one predator of nestlings in our area (New England) is chipmunks. Like Judy and Kimmarie, I was floored! I'd never realized that chipmunks predate birds. When I told my husband, he made the now-famous statement, "But chipmunks can't climb trees!" Now that we've seen them zipping up and down the tree trunks with abandon, we understand that there is much that we don't know about chipmunks! The rehabber told me chipmunks eat the heads off the nestlings and I believe she said they usually leave the rest of the nestling. She also said chipmunks do not restrict themselves to just cavity nesters--they go after many different types of birds, including doves and robins. I've never looked at chipmunks the same way since! Donna in Marlborough, CT From: Haleya Priest [mailto:mablue"at"gis.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 10:30 PM Subject: Re: Chipmunks Haleya Priest, Amherst MA From: EHDerry"at"aol.com [mailto:EHDerry"at"aol.com] Thanks to all of you who have written about your experiences with chipmunks. I never realized that they are a problem, but I guess they are just another predator that we need to be aware of and concerned about. The gentleman who spoke last night about the woodpeckers and mentioned chipmunks never gave a solution to the problem. I was not about to ask - lots of young children in the audience. Sounds like the cottage cheese container baffles that Tom in Oregon mentioned are a solution - and keeping boxes away from trees where they could jump onto the boxes. Judy Derry Lockport, NY From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com] Joy, Nope, don't have to get rid of them - they are just part of nature. However, if you have a surplus and don't have any natural predators around, you might try limiting their access to bird seed. Dottie Roseboom Peoria IL (central - zone 5) From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"tds.net] To the Constituency, I have never had a any trouble with Chipmunks getting into bird boxes. Our Chipmunks don't usually like to get that far from the ground. As you may know, we have one Chipmunk who eats from our hands, from our pockets, and from the tops of our heads. he also enjoys being stroked by our warm hands, especially on these chilly mornings. Bruce Burdett. SW NH From: JoAnn Gossett [mailto:supertiger"at"bellsouth.net] I don't think we can control everything, just do what we can. All of God's creatures made it before without us and I think in many cases they can still do so. It does hurt that much of bluebird decline is due to human intervention, but we cannot go overboard in trying to control all of their natural enemies. (except for starlings and hosp.) JoAnn Gossett From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com] JoAnn, I completely agree with you: that it's fruitless to try to control everything. And bluebirds have been coping with chipmunks, hawks, cowbirds, snakes, etc. for hundreds of years. (HOSP and Starlings are NOT native) However, humans have recently added several hurdles for bluebirds: 1) habitat destruction 2) introduction of the European starling & English finch 3) Pesticide usage IMO, when monitors attempt to rectify these 3 problems that humans have created, we are not going overboard. (I think that's what I hear you saying too?) Dottie Roseboom Peoria IL (central - zone 5) From: Haleya Priest [mailto:mablue"at"gis.net] I agree... And another thing is not so much to worry about our bluebirds and chipmunks as all our other native cavity nesters that we DON'T have boxes up for. This could be inspiration for folks to put up boxes for those other cavity nesters that REALLY NEED OUR HELP also!!! :-) H From: Jeff Aufmann [mailto:jaufmann"at"ameritech.net] Be aware that the green post shown in your picture will not keep raccoons from reaching your house. There is nothing worse that coming out in the morning and finding egg yolk running down the front the door. I have also known of one that trapped and ate an adult while sitting on eggs at night. One more thing, the house looks a little too close to the thick cover behind it. It might be alright for the bb's, but they are more likely to compete with House Wrens. Birdbuildr From: Pamela Ford [mailto:jpford"at"comcast.net] I find it interesting that Maryland law is so protective of songbirds that it allows anyone to kill any cat in the act of stalking a bird (other than a HOSP or EUST), or lying in wait at a bird feeder! I was so incredulous that I called the DNR and my local sheriff’s department to verify the law and my interpretation of it, which they did. Now I am not advocating the killing of cats, but I know we have yearly discussions on this list about damage done by cats outdoors. I tried to research the history of this law, but was unsuccessful. Maryland Code : NATURAL RESOURCES : TITLE 10. WILDLIFE : SUBTITLE 4. HUNTING RESTRICTIONS - IN GENERAL : § 10-413. Restrictions pertaining to dogs and cats. (d) Killing cats hunting game birds and mammals and protected birds.- A Natural Resources police officer or any law enforcement officer shall and any other person may destroy any cat found hunting any game bird or mammal or protected bird or mammal. A cause of action for damages cannot be maintained for this act. Pam in Harford County, Maryland From: lemerich [mailto:lemerich"at"epix.net] There had been a study done some time ago about cats and birds. It was discussed on a local talk show, but as of now I cant find the exact info. This study showed that more birds are killed at the feeders by hawks than cats. Lynn From: eindians [mailto:eindians"at"zoominternet.net] If all states would adopt this law I am more than sure it would discourage most cat owners from letting their cats roam free. It has always puzzled me why cat owners think it is fine for tabby to run loose, but heaven forbid letting fido off his leash. Any time your pet leaves your property you are responsible for any damage that it may cause. From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com] I'm glad that you are wise enough to protect your birds. Many people that feed birds are not. Do you believe that it's permissible for cats to kill birds, just because hawks do? Dottie Roseboom From: Lawrence Herbert [mailto:lherbert"at"4state.com] Good birding, Larry H. Joplin MO From: charlene anchor [mailto:charleneanchor"at"msn.com] I presently have 3 cats and I've had up to 8. So I love cats - indoors that is. From what I've read, studies show that approximately 80-90% of raptors die of starvation before they become adults. I don't begrudge a hawk a meal in my backyard. It's the way it should be. But cats are another matter. The are predators whether they are hungry or not. (and the cats I see walking through my yard are definitely not starving!) They will kill birds, snakes, etc even by playing with them. Birds can have a puncture wound, fly away and die later. Not all birds are brought home to their owners by cats. So I'm not sure how accurate the statistics are about hawks killing more birds than cats. I've seen our neighborhood cats kill fledging Carolina Wrens. Our neighbor once brought over a Ruby-crowned Kinglet that her cat had caught. She thought maybe I could help the bird and said her cats are always catching birds. The bird died of course and I can't convince my neighbor or other neighbors, to keep their cats indoors. Cats can be happy indoors. Ours have always been and it gives me an excuse for some extra playtime that I wouldn't ordinarily have! Besides, it's much safer for the cats as well. Charlene Anchor, Central Illinois From: JOHN & BARBARA SIBIO [mailto:jsibio"at"comcast.net] I have long felt that cats should be licensed, the same as dogs. I think if people had to buy a license for a cat they would think twice about getting one, and would take better care of it. There is an ordinance in our county that any cat allowed to roam must be spayed or neutered, but no one enforces it, it seems, as we see lots of feral cats and kittens. Contrary to what some people believe, feral cats have a horrible existence. Cats are healthier and happier when kept indoors, and make much better pets when they are neutered. I chase the cats who come on my property, and put my feeders and nestboxes in safe areas, because I know what skilled hunters they are. Again, I believe the answer is education. Barbara in Cloverdale, CA From: Patricia Self [mailto:cself"at"elmore.rr.com] An excellent point, and I couldn't agree more. There are people in this world, however who want cats to have access to the outside world as they would if they were living in their "natural habitat." My sister was one until she and her husband moved to AZ and she discovered that coyotes regard cats as a buffet meal. Unfortunately, the cats who come and go at will, into and out of the house, deposit waste matter wherever they wish, dig in gardens, and (worst of all) love to chase and catch birds. We have three cats, all of which are inside-only. They are not declawed (and that's another issue with me), but they are p-e-t-s. We took responsibility for them when we bought them, and so they'll stay. That being said, there's nothing like a barnyard cat to keep mice and rodents at bay. And did you know that if the rodents are under control, snakes are less likely to be around? There's a feral cat-mother in the building where my husband has his wood workshop, and because of her he is free to go down there when he will, knowing there are no snakes around. Also, he tells me, cats do enjoy baby snakes for snacks. Patricia Self From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com] Charlene, excellent points. I would like to emphasize that many young raptors are inept hunters. For every mouse, rabbit, or snake that a cat kills, a young raptor may lose his next meal, perhaps one that prevents starvation. I'm sure that these bird deaths are never listed in someone's mortality count. Dottie Roseboom From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com] PLEASE tell your friends that the domestic housecat is NOT part of our outside world. Lewis & Clark never spotted a house cat in any of their expeditions :-) I'm certainly glad that you keep your pets SAFELY inside. However, I must disagree with your rodent control method. Sorry, but there are much better methods of controlling mice in an outbuilding than with cats. I'm hoping that the cat in the outbuilding is never permitted outside Dottie Roseboom From: lemerich [mailto:lemerich"at"epix.net] Would I permit my cat to kill birds – Not if I can help it. Cats are natural stalkers. In fact we encourage them. As soon as their eyes are open, we are playing with them with string and balls and anything that moves. I don’t live on a farm, but do live in farm country. I spent several years working on a farm while in high school. Every farm I have ever seen has cats. My own personal observation while working and living in and around farms, is that that cats will mostly hunt mice, voles, rabbits and other young mammals. Sometimes snakes. I (personally) have rarely seen a cat with a bird, dead or alive. My personal observations only. Lynn in Bernville PA From: Dottie Roseboom [mailto:rosedot"at"mtco.com] Lynn, Glad to hear that you're not going to worry about things that you can't help. No one should. However, I'm not sure why we can't do a BETTER job of controlling cats. Nationwide mandatory & enforced leash laws would be a great starting point. That way your natural stalker would be confined to killing inside his own property. Because so much of Illinois farm land is being bought up by conglomerates, the typical barn cat is dwindling. Most of the trouble in my rural area results from the new subdivision cat owners wanting their cats to experience "freedom". I have seen cats travel several miles from their house to hunt on my property. That is something that really shouldn't be allowed. Just because cats ONLY hunt mice, voles, snakes, etc, does not lessen the damage that they do to raptors. For every varmint that is removed from the food chain, a raptor may suffer. Just last fall, hubby & I enjoyed watching a young red-tailed hawk attempting to catch a rabbit. They are beautiful birds, native to North America. The top, natural predators deserve a hunting area free of cats. Yes, everyone always uses the example of raccoons, foxes, etc. I think that this is mixing oranges & apples. Native populations have been balancing each out for eons. Food chains work quite well: weed, bug, bigger bug, toad, snake, and then a raptor, raccoon, or maybe a bigger snake. Usually, the weeds & bugs reproduce enough to compensate for the predator's take, because many times the predator misses. However, with cats, just as you said, they are the ultimate stalker. They seldom miss. And I have observed more than 1 bird taken by a cat. And I'm sorry for your neighbor's lost. My grandmother raised chickens & I realize how heart-breaking it is to see a fox kill. However, once again, confined chickens are not part of the natural scheme of things. Yes, I realize that this is a discussion that could last until the a cat kills the last mouse.... For myself, I prefer to see Great Horned Owls & Red-tailed Hawks controlling the rodent population than a neighbor's cat. Thank you for your answer. Dottie Roseboom Subject: Cats, stovepipe baffles and box heights (oh my?) Hi Also, one box is relatively new, made of cedar about a week ago. I would like to keep it up and available for the arrival of the bluebirds. Will the new cedar be a concern for the birds. Last question. Do bluebirds stay year round in central Indiana? Thanks Bluebird L! Subject: Re: Cats, stovepipe baffles and box heights (oh my?) ...Congratulations on getting started off with metal poles & baffles to protect your future Bluebirds. Baffles will help to protect against snakes, mice, squirrels, and raccoons. Some people will tell you that Bluebirds don't like to nest so high. That's never been a problem in my area. And there's also a rumor that house sparrows will not nest in low spots. Believe me, sparrows WILL nest in lower cavities. The only question that I have is: Do you have a way to monitor a nestbox at that height? Some people use small stepladders to check their higher nestboxes. However, I prefer using a telescopic setup, bringing the nestbox down to my eyelevel. (I'm 6'1") My nestboxes are mounted on 4 ft poles, usually 3/4". Then that pole slides into a 1" pole that is approximately 5' tall that has a hole within a inch of the top. I position the nestbox at about 7', and mark where the hole hits the nestbox pipe. Drill a hole into the nestbox pipe. Then place the nestbox pole back into the standing 1" pole, line up the two holes, and insert a bolt (I use discarded crochet hooks), so that the nestbox is about 7' off the ground. When you need to check on a nestbox, pull the bolt, and allow the nestbox to slowly descend to eye height. When finished, just slide the nestbox back up, and insert the bolt into the hole. Very fast & simple. So far, I've never lost a bird to the numerous cats that insist on hunting on my property. Also for a very fast check of nestboxes while still at the 7' height, I just flip open the top, and use a mirror to reflect the contents. I live in central Illinois, and some Bluebirds will stay here year-round. Paula lives in Ohio, and has quite a few Bluebirds year-round. so you probably do too. Sometimes Bluebirds will shelter in a wooded area through winter. Open bird baths will help to attract them in the winter. Enjoy your Bluebirds. Dottie Roseboom From: bookfanaticef-bluebird"at"yahoo.com I agree and say that if you want to monitor the bluebird boxes, the only issue about the height is that it makes it more difficult for you to check. I frequently have EABLs nesting in my nest boxes designed for American Kestrels--and not only are those boxes much larger than a standard EABL box, with a much larger hole, but the box is mounted 12' in the air. In fact, I've had more EABL nests in AMKE boxes than anything else! (I actually wish they didn't like them so much, and would give the later-nesting kestrels a chance to claim the boxes themselves). I'm sure they'll nest even higher I use a 12-ft ladder to check my kestrel boxes, combined with a small telescoping mirror (like what denstists use). The mirror comes in handy for the standard 5' high EABL boxes too, since I'm too short to look into the nest-cup without a step-stool. The big ladder though, is a bear to deal with, and I need at least one other person with me to carry it, so I would defintiely *not* recommend mounting your boxes quite that high. Mine are only that high because our target species, the kestrels, prefer to nest that high. Too bad my group didn't have enough money to build boxes that we could slide down the poles to check! Ours are on 4x4 pieces of lumber for the kestrel boxes, and landscaping timbers/railroad ties for the short bluebird boxes. Subject: Cats, stovepipe baffles and box heights (oh my?) Elizabeth, Sounds like some of our smart BB-list people need to think of a way for you to CHEAPLY telescope those kestrel nestboxes :-) Sure wouldn't want to lose your input to a broken leg from a ladder fall. And aren't Bluebirds just like children? They NEVER do what we want them to! I'm afraid that my area has way too many cats to have nestboxes lower than 7 ft. Luckily, I'm tall enough to use a mirror, without a ladder, for "just checking". However, for placing inbox traps, removing sparrows & used nests, I have to lower the nestboxes. Spring is on its way north. Dottie Roseboom From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] I think most experts agree that we put the nestboxes at eye level for our convenience. The bluebirds don't really care. Yesterday at a presentation, I was asked about what to do about cats around nestboxes. I believe it has been stated on here that a cat can jump over six feet from the ground to the nestbox. So, even with a stovepipe guard which is usually lower than that on nestbox placed 5 ft. high, they could by-pass the guard easily. A nestbox placed 7 ft. high could solve that problem, but then you have to worry about the birds eating and being stalked on the ground. I told the lady to keep her cat in the house. She said it liked to go outside. I could imagine blue feathers everywhere. Evelyn Cooper From: SHERRY KANARAS [mailto:basketcasesherry "at"verizon.net] Hello everyone, If anyone has any suggestions as to something that I can attach to the houses to help keep cat paws and/or racoon paws away from my babies, I would appreciate it. I have one box with black capped chickadees and one with bluebirds building. Thank you, From: Shawn [mailto:shawnee4 "at"charter.net] I don't know a lot about your question, but I wanted to recommend (if you don't already have it) "The Bluebird Monitor's Guide". One of the main things it says about mounting is to use a smooth metal pole/post that can be greased to keep snakes and other climbing predators from getting anywhere near the box. You can order it from the NABS site, and it has taught me a lot! Some of the contributors to it are regular posters on this list, too! I always enjoy seeing things from the book's contributors here on this list. I suppose hole guards (I think you can also order them from NABS) would help (makes the entrance hole longer/deeper so kitty's (or racoon's) "arm" and then paw won't be able to reach the babies. I wish everyone would keep their cats indoors like us (I have 3)! They love to watch the birdies and the thieving squirrels (I wish I could trust them to only catch squirrels, I'd let them have a feast on those sunflower seed thieves)! Hope this helps! Shawn in Sevierville, TN From: Kenny Kleinpeter [mailto:kpkmajk "at"cox.net] Besides trapping the loose cats in my “hav-a-hart” trap (baited with an open can of tuna) and bringing them to the pound, a nestbox needs to be seven feet high to prevent a cat from leaping onto it. This can be accomplished with a telescoping pole – one that fits inside the other. The lower, bigger, base pole should still have a predator guard attached near the top of it. .... From: Bet Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz "at"charter.net] Kenny mentioned height. A box with a bigger overhang (e.g., 5") may help prevent cats from reaching inside. Hole guards (the wooden kind you nail on top of the entrance hole) have NOT proven effective in deterring raccoons from reaching inside a nestbox. Noel guards (a metal box cage looking thing) that fit over the hole work, but I think they are not supposed to be put up until after egg is laid to prevent bird from abandoning box. Some people sell "Bird Guardians" which are a plastic tube that fits over the entrance hole, but Dorene Scriven (a bluebirder and author) did not recommend them because of the extra effort required on the part of the parents to reach in and feed babies every 5-15 minutes. Bluebird Love makes a very expensive box that comes with two pegs that fit below the entrance hole, which I think were designed to deter a predator paw from reaching in and grabbing eggs/nestlings. From: Kathy Woods [mailto:phoenixcenter "at"comcast.net] Sherry: From: JOHN & BARBARA SIBIO [mailto:jsibio"at"comcast.net] Not everyone understands that doing the "best" thing sometimes requires difficult choices. I was criticized by a neighbor last week because I don't let my cats roam loose. I have a young one that I take outside on a harness and a leash, and a 15 year old that has always been an indoor animal. I was told it was the nature of cats to roam and kill birds. Hey, that's why mine stay inside; I want them to be healthy and safe. Same thing I want for the birds! Barbara, in Cloverdale, CA From: Linda I keep my cats inside also, but some people let them roam--and they find their way into our yard. I keep a slingshot handy to scare them off, but cats do not scare easily or they forget. I've even bought a cat trap, but caught a squirrel and later a possum. Oh well, cats are the leading decline of songbirds especially the ground nesters. There should be laws to keep cats put up and I've heard some states are trying to get one passed. Linda in NW GA From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net] Barbara, From: Sheila Rogers [mailto:sheilarogers"at"charter.net] I keep my " Super Soaker Water GUN"...cats hate water:) they haven't come Sheila From: Patricia Self [mailto:cself"at"elmore.rr.com] Speaking as one who has three (indoor only) cats and two dogs, I've been involved in the discussions regarding letting them roam free. My sister was a proponent of allowing her cat to roam. I think it was for her own convenience, but she said it was because it was the nature of cats to be predators. And that's true. However -- She and her husband retired to Tucson a couple of years ago. Their two cats went with them. The area where they are (adjacent to a golf course and in a newly-developed area of land) has ... coyotes. Talk about your natural predators! None of the cat owners in her retirement community allow cats to roam free. Patricia A. Self From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net] Up here in New Hampshire we have one especially potent From: Afinechef"at"aol.com [mailto:Afinechef"at"aol.com] Fishers have heavy, catlike bodies with long bushy tails. The largest of eight species of martens, they measure 70 to 107 cm (28 to 42 in), not including the tail, which measures about 46 cm (about 18 in). They can weigh up to 6 kg (13 lb), with males heavier than females. The dark brown fur is somewhat lighter over the head and shoulders and darkens to black on the legs and tail. Often a patch of white fur grows on the chest. The large, furry feet have claws that can partially retract, like those of a cat. This enables the fisher to climb trees, although it spends less time in trees than other martens do. Scientific classification: The fisher belongs to the weasel family, Mustelidae, in the order Carnivora. It is classified as Martes pennanti. From: Afinechef"at"aol.com [mailto:Afinechef"at"aol.com] Hi List Several people have asked about the fisher's range. Here's more info on this amazing animal (imagine being able to prey on porcupines!) Fisher, medium-sized carnivorous mammal in the weasel family, native to North America. Actually a type of marten, the fisher is a clever hunter and is one of the few animals capable of preying on porcupines. Fishers are found primarily in coniferous forests within Alaska, Canada, and the United States. In their eastern range, they extend as far south as New York State. In the western part of the continent, they range as far south as the mountainous portions of central California and Utah. Donna in Marlborough, CT (first bluebird egg laid today--latest ever!) From: Maynard Sumner [mailto:m-r-sumner"at"juno.com] My cat is five years old and I do the same as you do. The other night I did a health test on the computer to see what my cat's health age was. They say with cats it is 8 to 1. Maynard Sumner From: Torrey [mailto:torrey_canyon"at"yahoo.com] It's the nature of cats to kill birds & mice, even if they're not hungry. It's also in their nature to chew on house plants, even the poisonous ones. It's their nature to have as many litters of kittens as possible. (Wisconsin is currently debating a very controversial law that would allow people shoot feral It's the nature of dogs to chase things that run, like deer, but here in Michigan they can be legally shot for doing that. It's the nature of dogs to chase cats, it's the nature of coyotes to eat cats, & it's the nature of some humans to be very cruel to any animal they can catch. From: elizabeth.young"at"spotplus.com [mailto:elizabeth.young"at"spotplus.com] How high can a cat jump? Considering we are told to have boxes 5' for monitoring, I don't think this is tall enough to keep cats from jumping up to the birdhouse. Please give your input/experience on this. Neighbor lets his cats run around freely outside so I am concerned. From: mfpino"at"comcast.net [mailto:mfpino"at"comcast.net] -- I just read this email tonight. I have 3 cats and I never let them out. One of my neighbors lets her 3 cats roam outside. I got angry one summer Maria From: Carl Andrews [mailto:carl.blue"at"gmail.com] Fishers actually eat about any cat they can catch up to. As well as Pine Martens, etc. They also hunt as a family group as the young mature and can take young bobcats up to 18 pounds. A fullgrown bobcat is another story of course. Here in Maine Tom bobcats get over 40 pounds. Fishers also take many raptor eggs and young and many raptor nests have a fisher head pop over the side when you knock on the nest tree. They also regulary kill andeat porcupine by biting the porcupine in the face. And are very arboreal of course. Not like a badger at all realy except togh and aggressive and a weasel. More like a huge Pine marten. A weasel-like weasel...snakey gait etc From: Kenny Kleinpeter [mailto:kpkmajk"at"cox.net] Six feet, I have seen! I “cat-proof” box ideally uses a telescoping pole (the upper inside of the lower) so that the set height is 7 feet. The predator guard would be mounted at the top of the lower section. I live in a common subdivision and when I get up in the middle of the night (like now; don’t ask me why…) and sit quietly outside, I see several cats out stalking prey and each other. Amazingly common. Kenny Kleinpeter From: Paula [mailto:PaulaZ"at"columbus.rr.com] I don't remember the exact statistics, but our local wildlife rehab facility sends out an annual report every year and the #1 cause of injured wildlife in our area is domestic cat attacks. That says a lot. Keep the cats indoors please. We have a couple neighborhood cats that have shown great interest in my repeating sparrow trap. They don't take me seriously at all when I come out to shoo them away. That is when I send my dog out. They take him very seriously. Paula Z From: Snoopy [mailto:snoopy"at"wmis.net] >>>>>>>How high can a cat jump? I have 2 cats who jump (indoors only.... my cats don't go out EVER) at least 6 1/2 feet on a daily basis.My daughter has a high loft bed and they jump up there because they love high places. From: ZZZ [mailto:ZZZ] I have a stovepipe-type predator guard on my backyard BB box. I think the box is mounted at 5 feet or a little less. I monitor 10 boxes at a nearby park, all mounted relatively low and all with metal predator guards on the posts. There are cats running freely in the area and - even more dangerous IMHO - lots of raccoons. But I've had no cat or raccoon predation in the 5 or 6 years that these boxes have been active. (I have had one instance of what I think was snake predation.) While I suppose cats can theoretically jump that high, it would be difficult at best for them to get the baby birds inside the box. With a stovepipe-type predator guard, they can't cling to the pole and reach into the box. If they were to jump all the way to the top of the box, they'd still have to reach down and get their paw inside. If the nestbox is appropriately deep, this too would be a formidable task - at best. Boxes without predator guards are reliably preyed upon by raccoons. The predator guard makes the difference. Rebecca J. From: Cher [mailto:bluelist"at"localnet.com] Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 1:11 PM Subject: Wandering cats This subject has come up occasionally on the list, but I'd like some ideas on how you cope with wandering cats - especially those of you who live in the country and have NO idea who these cats belong to, and even if you did, it wouldn't matter because there are no laws against wandering housecats. I'm currently having a problem with a stray cat that keeps upsetting my repeating sparrow trap and letting the birds out. If I put the trap on a table where the cat can't overturn it, then he messes with the decoys through the mesh and I go out and find blood everywhere. Disposing of HOSPs is one thing, having them tortured by a cat is another. I can't bring the trap in at night - no place to put it. Has anyone ever tried the broken hazelnut shells as suggested in the "Cats Indoors!" flyer at http://www.abcbirds.org/cats/cats_in_yard.pdf ? From: Snoopy [mailto:snoopy"at"wmis.net] Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 6:18 PM Subject: Re: Wandering cats I'm not sure Cher, but if you get an answer to your private email please PLEASE PLEASE share with the list... I have a simaler problem here.... From: Mary Haik [mailto:m.haik"at"charter.net] Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 6:28 PM Subject: RE: Wandering cats Maybe you should get one of the humane traps, or have the local ASPCA or Mary Fro |