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Problems and Solutions with Cats, Raccoons (& other four legged creatures) and Nestboxes (Part 2)In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website: Predators and Problems On The Bluebird Trail Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 23:26:18 -0500 From BIRDER'S WORLD MAGAZINE - August 2000 issue: "Ten year old Holly Pop of Salem, Ohio has been selected as overall winner of a poster competition held in conjunction with National Keep Your Cat Indoors Day. Winning entries can be viewed by logging on to www.abcbirds.org/catsindoors.htm The poster competition, sponsored by the American Bird Conservancy (ABC) and Wild Bird Centers of America, was designed to educate pet owners that cats, birds, and other wildlife benefit when cats are kept indoors. Cats Indoors! The Campaign For Safer Birds and Cats was initiated by the nonprofit ABC, and is supported by the Humane Society of the United States, National Audubon Society, and other organizations. Campaign organizers estimate that hundreds of millions of birds are killed by free roaming domestic cats." I am also sending a copy of this to Doug LeVasseur, the new president of NABS. We should be on this bandwagon too. Bluebird Bob. Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 19:31:59 -0400 I put it back in the nest box, so the cat wouldn't get it. Please advise if I should do otherwise (like put it on top of the nest box). The remaining chicks have fledged. ---------------------- Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 20:13:03 -0400 Well, the chick is gone now..... there was a lot of commotion when I was checking the list, (time to build my own wireless nest cam!) and it seems that chick is safe, as the parents don't seem to be anywhere in sight... ... ---------------------- Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 22:11:12 -0400 Information from Donald and Lillians book : The Bluebird Book Protection From Predators Predation is part of nature, and we must learn to accept it. There are, however, many things you can do to lesson predation on your bluebird trail. House Sparrows: Cats: Cats can climb posts, reach into nest boxes, and harm the young,or they can sit on the top of the box and harass or kill the adults. They can also sit on the ground in front of the box and jump to catch the adults, but they can be deterred from this by your mounting the boxes 8 ft. high on poles. When possible, cats should be confined during nesting season and should be prevented from climbing nest box poles through the use of predator guards. Raccoons: Raccoons are major predators of bluebirds. They climb to boxes at night and kill any adults, young, or eggs that are in the box. A nest that has been disturbed by a raccoon will be missing birds and the nesting material will be pulled part way through the entrance hole. Frequently, claw marks are found on the box, and feathers and bits of eggs are scattered on the ground below. Occasionally,raccoons leave few signs of their predation. Deter raccoons with predator guards on the poles or entrance hole extensions. Boxes mounted on trees or fence posts are not easily protected from raccoons. Snakes: Snakes, especially those of Elaphe, such as rat snakes, and those of the genus Pituophis, such as bull snakes and pine-gopher snakes, are predators of bluebirds in many parts of the country. One study showed that snake predation occurred more within 300 feet of woods. Snakes climb up poles, even poles that are greased or spread with Tangle foot ( a sticky substance available at garden supply stores) , and eat young and eggs. There is often no sign of disturbance to the nest. Snakes can be deterred by 4" PVC pipe or specific snake traps. Wrens: Wrens, especially house wrens, can be prey on bluebirds by puncturing and / or removing eggs. The eggs may have tiny puncture holes and sometimes are thrown on the ground or taken elsewhere. In some cases wrens have killed adults or killed nestlings and thrown them on the ground. The best protection from wrens is to keep the bluebird trail away from wren habitat. House wrens prefer woody, brushy areas,so place bluebird nest boxes at least 100 feet from such habitats. Hawks: Hawks can kill adult and fledgling bluebirds as they fly about the nest box. Kestrals have been reported to cling to an entrance hole of 1 3/4" inches, reach in, and remove a 6 day old nestling. Sharp shinned hawks, Coopers hawks, and merlins eat mainly birds and can eat bluebirds. Sharp shinned hawks have been reported to catch adult bluebirds as they left the nest box. For protection from hawks, place boxes away from known nesting hawks and way from power lines and other perches above the box from which hawks can dive down and surprise the adults. White footed mice, deer mice,chipmunks, squirrels, are also capable of climbing to nests and eating eggs or young. The best way to stop all of these climbing predators is to use predator guards on the poles. You can reinforce entrance holes with a metal plate so squirrels cannot chew through. Other Birds: Crows, blue jays, and grackles prey on eggs and nestlings of birds that build one cup nests, but they rarely prey on birds in nest boxes with 1 1/2" inch entrance holes. However, magpies in certain area of the West, have become problems at bluebird boxes. Submitted by: Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 14:50:45 -0400 Jeff: - I'd like to say, tactfully I hope, that the cat should be kept indoors at all times. If it's your cat, that's easy. If it's your neighbor's cat, then you have a diplomatic problem. I'd at least use STRINGENT means, and great vigilance, to keep the cat out of my yard. I can think of many means, some more stringent than others. Bruce Burdett NH ... Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 20:39:48 -0400 Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 20:48:01 -0500 Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 20:54:03 -0500 Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 18:59:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: 14 Jul 2000 03:25:29 -0000
Here is a web site by non other than the Audubon Society which pretty well puts stray cats into perspective. http://www.audubon.org/bird/cat/ I am not trying to stir anyone's dander up, but a free roaming cat is a worse enemy than a House Sparrow! Bill ... Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 08:51:17 -0700 Bruce and All some of those folks who have never see a bluebird are also the same ones who don't really look. I can spot bluebirds when even good birders do not see them. I think that this is just training. We are having a problem with feral cats here and the city is going to pass a bill allowing misguided people to put up feeder stations for them. These are the same people who are picking up feral cats have them neutered and releasing them. (We can not kill any of Gods creatures).They feel that supplemental feeding will keep them killing song birds. Well it is my opinion that cats will kill just for the sake of killing. ONE FERAL CAT CAN KILL IN THREE MONTHS ALL THE BIRDS I HELPED FLEDGED THIS YEAR. It is estimated that one feral cat kills 1,000 songbirds in it short life span of 2 1/2 years. If they were all HOSP that would be fine but HOSP are too smart for cats. I am going to speak against this city ordinance and would like some facts and you opinion. I have the information from National Audubon Society and Keep Cats Indoors. Any other suggestions? Bob Wilson Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:29:22 -0500 (EST) Hi all, There was an earlier Message concerning feral cats, perhaps by Keith? which was accidently deleted by my grandson before I could reply. The original post expressed concern about setting up feeding stations for feral cats, and programs to trap, neuter, and release such animals back into their original environment, thus posing serious potential for the death of many birds. Years ago, in another state, I was part of an proposed effort by local birding groups to permanently remove feral cats. The backlash of anger by the general public spilled over to the bird groups, who were immediately perceived as cat-killers. I'm quite sure that we did more harm than good to the birds we were trying to protect by suggesting such a measure of control. I now live in a small city, but the surrounding area is quite rural. The feral cat problem is of great concern here. Animal welfare and rescue groups are stressed beyond endurance in their attempts to control the ever-rising population of feral, abandoned, and abused animals. The sad truth is that birders and animal welfare people are working on the same problem, which is the refusal of too many citizens to spay/neuter their animals and keep them inside property boundaries. The idea of neutering and returning feral cats is the only workable solution so far, and seems acceptable to the general public. Although these cats will still kill birds, at least they will not multiply - not a perfect solution by any means, but better than no controls at all. What is really needed is a way to help people pay for the cost of neutering (our last cat's spaying cost $45). The animal groups here try to raise funds to help citizens afford neutering, for they are aware that most people simply can't afford it. I think that all of us should consider helping local animal welfare groups in such efforts, as this might be the best way to protect our beloved bluebirds from feral cats. Cat and bird groups may sound like natural enemies, but they are not. Dot (upstate NY in the Lake Ontario snowbelt) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 06:37:51 -0600 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas still under a thick coat of ice in Northeast Texas and 25*F. I believe Bob Wilson posted about the feral cats. In our part of the state local regulations are in effect for cats and dogs and the leash law is enforced. Anyone can trap or capture loose pets and turn them over to the county "dog pound" where they are scanned for identification "chips" and owners notified. If it is obviously a good breed or well kept pet they are pretty well kept indefinitely until adopted out. If obviously wild or they have been "dumped" they are kept up to 2 weeks and then put to sleep. They fund this project with "fines" as they give them all shots unless you can furnish a vets records and with shots, worming, flea dip ETC. and fine you pay about $150.00 to reclaim your pet. If you just adopt one it runs around $50. Spaying or neutering is your option but can be arranged. You can challenge the fine if you suspect your neighbor is releasing your yapping dog to get even with you and then they may have to pay the fine for releasing your pet. They furnish live traps to anyone needing to remove a problem animal and this was started as a private effort by a single lady. She went before the county commissioners and they laid out the rules for picking up and holding animals. A group could do this same thing in other areas and not release the animals back to the wild. Our county actually has taken this over and is running it now as she was not allowed to "fine" anyone and she made no money (profit) on the operation when she ran it for about 6 years. This is a very controversial topic and must be dealt with very carefully. It helps to get local ordinances in place and do this over several years as the birds you save very well might be your own! KK Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 11:50:23 -0800 I may have posted this before, but it's worth repeating. The American Bird Conservancy in cooperation with the US Humane Society has a program called Cats Indoors. The have nice brochures and teaching kits and all sorts of promotional material, some of which can be downloaded from their website: http://www.abcbirds.org There is included some guidelines for developing a program in your community to get cats indoors. Some of the material explains in good terms why cat lovers are doing their pets a favor by teaching them to enjoy staying in. Hatch Keith & Sandy Kridler wrote: Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas still under a thick coat of ice in ... Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 13:01:27 -0800 (PST) Hi everyone. I agree with Dot that the idea of neutering and spaying feral cats and releasing them is currently the best option. I am a grad student at UC Berkeley and am studying conservation biology - so I understand the huge impact that feral cats have on bird populations. However, I also am very much aware of the need to consider the economic, political, and social fabric of communities when proposing conservation strategies (I study vineyard expansion in northern California as it relates to loss and fragmentation of oak woodland habitat. This is an incredibly controversial issue in n. CA right now). As Dot pointed out, conservation efforts can backfire if we do not take the time to understand the social atmosphere. Like it or not, many Americans still have no understanding of the importance of caring for the natural systems that we are so dependent on, nor do they have respect for non-human beings. At least animal rights activists have realized an inherent value and a right to existence for creatures other than humans. I believe our society would be much better off if more people shared their philosophy, as compared to the idea that humans have a right to use anything and everything to their own benefit. Having said the above, I will relate my own experience with feral cats. I moved into my house almost a year ago. I soon discovered that my neighborhood has a huge feral cat problem. So I have made it my mission to get the feral population under control. I have trapped and spayed/neutered 4 cats so far, but there are several more that need to be caught. I do not have a problem with individuals or groups that eliminate feral cats for the sake of bird conservation. However, I absoulutely cannot do the same personally. When a cat is caught in a trap, it is incredibly freaked out and is probably suffering one of the worst experiences of its life. After having looked into the eyes of these creatures and heard their soulful cries, I cannot in good conscience take them to be put down. What I am willing to do is to have them fixed and to take responsibility for those that still hang out in my yard. Perhaps my solution does not provide immediate relief to the local bird populations, but maybe 5 or 10 years from now, the ferals won't be such a problem in my neighborhood. If I wasn't doing what I am doing, the situation certainly wouldn't get better. so please don't criticize those of us who are doing all that we can. Like Dot said, the feral cat activists and the birders actually have common goals, they simply have solutions that play out over different time-frames. I can only hope that there is enough time to let the ferals finish out their lives naturally AND to keep native birds from disappearing locally. For those of you interested in altering ferals, California has a feral program sponsored by the state. I simply have to take my ferals in a live trap, and the local vet fixes the cats for free. The vet is then reimbursed by the state. Perhaps other states also have this program. For those of you worried about the birds in my yard that might get eaten, I wouldn't worry too much. I pretty much only have jays, ravens, and starlings. and we've got plenty of squirrels too. Not a very inviting place for most birds. And I decided from the beginning that it would be unwise to try to attract birds to the yard so i have no feeders and no nest boxes. Finally, here's a thought for everyone to mull over. As Dot said, the feral cat problem is really a problem created by refusal of many humans to take responsibility. I propose that we trap and kill these humans rather than the feral cats that had the bad luck to be born into this world. Just a thought. I'm not really serious. ...Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 14:29:57 -0800 (PST) I am at a loss to see how sterilizing and releasing feral cats solves any problem. A feral cat is in the front line of action in the wild. Any deseases in the chain will be introduced to these cats spread to household pets as well. These feral cats would be hosts to any epidemic in the wild. I think that this practice would be irresponsible and potentially dangerous. Tony Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:02:40 EST While I wholeheartedly agree with the statement below about animal rights activists I would like to point out that many of the MAJOR animal rights organizations - including HSUS, PETA and ASPCA - have grave concerns about TNR (Trap, Neuter, Release) programs for feral cats. Their concerns include the deadly affect on wildlife, risks to human health AND the continued suffering of the cats themselves. For anyone interested in finding out more I second Hatch's suggestion of a visit to the American Bird Conservancy site (www.abcbirds.org ) to look at their Cats Indoors Campaign information, especially the paper entitled "Managed Cat Colonies: the Wrong Solution to a Tragic Problem ". The American Bird Conservancy site is worth a visit anyway - it's a great organization acvtively promoting and campaigning for many aspects of bird conservation, including towerkill, pesticides etc. Jane Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:26:31 -0800 Dear Cats Indoors! Campaign Activist: We're finishing up the 4th year of the campaign stronger than ever, with over 2,800 activists involved. Please see below for a few recent highlights. 1. Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission's Cats Indoors! Campaign: Recognizing that impacts of free-roaming cats on native wildlife are a growing concern, the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission has embarked on a state-wide Cats Indoors! education campaign. Over 20,000 copies of "Keeping Cats Indoors Isn't Just For The Birds" brochures and 2,000 posters are being distributed to veterinary hospitals, county commissioners and animal control officers throughout the state. The Commission's Web site, http://wld.fwc.state.fl.us/critters/domestic_cat.htm features a page on domestic cats and a link to ABC's Cats Indoors! Web page. The Commission is also making it clear to counties that it is a violation of state law to release any species of the animal kingdom not native to Florida without a permit from the Commission. Rather than allowing trap/neuter/release of stray cats, as Brevard and West Palm Beach counties have done, the Commission is encouraging counties to find other solutions to free-roaming cat overpopulation problems, such as low cost or free spay/neuter clinics, or mandatory spay/neuter and cat leash laws. 2. Cape May Anti-Abandonment Campaign: As birders arrive in Cape May by way of the Cape May/Lewes Ferry, they are greeted by a "Welcome to New Jersey" sign at the Lower Township Rotary Club Park along the waters edge. Directly underneath the sign, on top of and under the picnic tables and cars, are stray cats--fed there every night by well-meaning people. Stray and feral domestic cats are a serious problem in the birding hotspot of the east coast, largely because of people who fail to get their cats spayed or neutered, who do not keep their cats indoors, and who abandon their unwanted cats and kittens at the area's local parks and restaurants. Residents, as well as tourists, are to blame. Cats also pose a serious threat to nesting Piping Plovers and Least Terns along the beach at the U.S. Coast Guard Training Center. ABC will be working with New Jersey Audubon, City of Cape May Animal Control, U.S. Coast Guard, and others in an anti-cat abandonment education campaign for the area. 3. Writer of Teacher's Guide Wins Award: Rhonda Lucas Donald, author of, "Cats Indoors! Educator's Guide for Grades K - 6," won the first place award for a brochure or pamphlet in the Cat Writer's Association annual contest. Ms. Donald received the award because the guide, "was informative, engaging, and well-illustrated," and because, "of its appeal to a very important age group of cat owners--children." Thanks to a generous grant from the Kenneth A. Scott Charitable Trust, the guide will be reprinted. If you need more copies, please let me know at lwinter"at"abcbirds.org. 4. What you are doing on the campaign? Please let me know if you are conducting an education campaign, getting a local cat ordinance passed, getting an existing law enforced, or if you are getting local media attention. I am especially interested in knowing if your efforts have been successful. 5. Please note our new phone and fax numbers. Also, if you do not want to receive future campaign updates, please let me know. Thanks for all your hard work on the campaign and have a happy holiday and a great new year! Linda Linda Winter, Director Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 18:48:48 -0800 On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Tony Tee wrote: I am at a loss to see how sterilizing and releasing feral cats solves any ... Hi all. Tony is correct that feral cats are possible hosts for disease. However, I fail to see how neutering and releasing feral cats will result in higher disease transmission. If anything, I would think this would result in lower incidence of disease. Epidemics generally occur when population densities are high, i.e. when infected individuals have a high probability of being in contact with uninfected individuals. The more cats there are, the more likely it is that disease will spread, and the more likely it is that the disease will spread to people's pets. As far as my experience is concerned, spaying and neutering ferals results in lower densities than if they are simply left alone. Ferals come from 2 sources - they are either individuals that were abandoned and left to their own devices, or they were born to a feral mother. In my experience, the second category is of greater concern. Abandoned cats, if caught soon enough, are usually somewhat tame, can be adopted and can then be vaccinated regularly. Cats that are born feral are very difficult to tame, which makes it difficult to vaccinate them regularly. As the American Bird Conservancy's ' "Managed" Cat Colonies: The Wrong Solution to a Tragic Problem' points out, cats that are trapped once are extremely hard to trap again for revaccination. I have had first hand experience with this. HOWEVER, cats that are not trapped and neutered are also potential disease reservoirs. The difference is that these cats will reproduce and then pass the diseases on to their offspring, and the problem doesn't go away. At least if they are fixed, the population should decline over time. I know for a fact that this is a possibility because my aunt spayed and neutered feral cats in her neighborhood over a 10 year period and has not had to deal with any more for several years. Furthermore, there is little, if any, scientific evidence to support the idea that yearly vaccinations for cats are necessary. It is entirely possible that fewer vaccinations would be just as effective, so it may not be necessary to retrap ferals every year if you're trying to control disease. As suggested by Jane, I checked out the 'Managed Cat Colonies: The Wrong Solution to a Tragic Problem' article. While it has lots of useful information, it offers only one solution - 'humanely remove' individuals. I translate this to mean: kill the cats. Managed cat colonies may have problems associated with them, but as Dot pointed out before, trapping and killing feral cats does not sit well with much of the general public. As we witnessed with the reintroduction of red wolves into the Southwest, ignoring the general sentiment of the local community can have terrible consequences for individual conservation programs and the critters that we so desperately want to save. Solving complex problems takes time, patience, compromise, and an understanding of ecosystems that we often do not have. We must remember this, especially those of us (myself included) who are so eager to fix the environmental problems caused by humans ASAP. I believe that we need to come up with alternatives to the trap and 'humanely remove' idea that the 'Managed Cat Colonies' article promotes. Relying on this option only is bound to move conservation efforts backwards in some situations, as Dot pointed out. What are other options for feral populations at colleges, city parks, etc (i.e. areas that are not critical habitat)? Do you think it is better to leave the ferals alone and to let disease, predation, and 'natural' food supply keep the population at a more or less stable level? Or is it better to trap, neuter, and release them? I wonder if the impact on birds would be any different over the long term. I suspect it would (in favor of trap, neuter, release), but I'm open to others' opinions. While feeding stations may produce high cat densities and high rates of disease, the trap, neuter, release idea does not require the use of feeding stations. I never fed 2 of the 4 feral cats that I have caught. Those 2 cats just hung out in my yard because I didn't chase them away. They now want nothing to do with me, and I feel no obligation to feed them because I never did. These cats live in the alley, just like they did before I moved in. Only now, I can be sure that they aren't reproducing. Is it possible to catch most of the ferals in parks without the use of feeding stations to lure them in? I don't know what the absolute best solution is. Actually, I am sure that there is no one best solution. It will depend on each situation. Probably where endangered species or important habitat are involved, the backlash associated with killing feral cats is worth risking. However, I think it would be wise for conservationists to think more about the positive and negative aspects of many different options (and perhaps support more research), so that we can make well-informed decisions that are ecologically and socially appropriate for individual situations. I do not think that simply pointing out the problems of trap, neuter, release programs, without offering more socially acceptable solutions, will do us, the birds, or the feral cats much good. Thanks for listening. Emily Heaton Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 08:47:32 -0500 Question: Is not a neutered feral cat just as lethal a predator in the wild as an un-neutered feral cat? In my book, the practice of capturing, neutering, and releasing feral cats makes no sense whatever. Feral cats should be eliminated by the quickest, the most humane, and the most merciful means possible - and the least expensive. Bruce Burdett, NH Bluebird Conspiracy, Sunapee NH Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 17:33:52 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA Hi Bluebird Bob, am mildly sick so can't dig out research about your topic - or be all that coherent, but the thing that convinced me was that 90% or so of all song birds attacked by a cat, whether any visible injuries are seen or not DIE within 24-48hrs due to terrible bacteria that cats carry on their claws and teeth. So, even if a bird gets away, it is more likely than NOT that they will have received the tiniest pin prick of a scratch from the cat and will die. If the bird is not treated immediately with antibiotics, it will die within 24-48 hours. If the bird manages to escape without a scratch, chances are a wing or internal injuries have occurred. In either of these events, the bird will only become prey to any other number of predators, including other cats. Also, I would cite the estimated number of song birds killed by cats each year. Someone must have the stats on both of these arguments. Good luck!! :-) H Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 22:43:33 -0800 Hi Bob: Not meaning to sound like a broken record but check the downloads on http://www.abcbirds.com then check Cats Indoors. I think the article they have on why the pet cat is safer indoors is quite compelling. By being positive about the 'kept' cats, it shows how injuries and diseases from the feral cats are a real threat to little pussy who is allowed outside. REAL cat lovers will have a hard time opposing you. Of course, the humaniacs are another problem. But the truly humane thing for pet cats and birds is to eliminate feral cats. Another thing you have going for you with this material is that it's sponsored by the US Humane Society which should carry weight with the 'opposition.' Hatch Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 13:13:02 -0500 -- "Fausto J. Beretta" faustcatfish"at"earthlink.net From: webmaster"at"thecitizen.southam.ca Subject: "Ottawa Citizen Headlines" FLUFFY THE SONGBIRD SLAYER: HOUSE CATS WILDLIFE ENEMY NO. 1 The carnage caused by pussycats is getting out of hand, and Shirley Anne McCormick is spitting mad that people are doing so little about it. http://www.ottawacitizen.com/national/010206/5125950.html Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 08:19:05 EST while on the subject of predator guards, does anyone know how athletic a
'coon is? i had three instances of predation last year, all the same 'coon (i
think). this year my boxes are all 5' from the ground, mounted on 1 5/8"
aluminum fence posts. can this critter climb this pole? i have a dozen new Phil Berry Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 23:16:08 -0800 (PST) --- Phl806"at"cs.com wrote: ... Phil, ===== Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 07:48:23 -0500 Daniel Sparks wrote: --- Phl806"at"cs.com wrote: ... In my experience, raccoons are extremely athletic and very clever and, yes, they can climb narrow poles. If the pole is greased, that makes it harder, but a couple of rainstorms will wash away the grease. The only way I have found to keep raccoons off feeders and boxes is to use stovepipe guards. -- Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 11:29:19 -0500 Beatrice in Bethel CT Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 12:27:45 -0800 Can someone refresh my memory about how to mount boxes high enough to be out of cat's reach, but that can be lowered for monitoring? This was discussed at end of last season, and it seems to me it involved using rebar, with conduit over it which could be adjusted up or down. One of my boxes sits at about 3 1/2 feet. I lowered it after sparrow problems upon reading somewhere that sparrows don't like boxes that low. I never did have problems with sparrows in that box again, but it is easy prey for cats. We all must find the right solution to predator problems, which really seem to vary regionally. Thanks for your advice! Molly Powers Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 18:58:13 -0800 Molly, Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 05:50:33 -0500 Hi All... I heard somewhere that placing a mostly flat but slightly crumpled piece of "chicken wire" on the ground is an effective cat deterrent. Seems they can't walk too well on it - sorta makes sense. Bests, Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 08:58:20 -0600 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas rain for 13 out of the last 14 days is going to make for very wet nesting material! Re: natural cavities in wood: I visited with Jack Finch from Bailey North Carolina for and hour last night on the phone and he thinks flying squirrels are a greatly under rated night predator of cavity nesting birds! Jack has done EXTENSIVE research on what black rat snakes can and cannot climb to get to a bluebird nestbox. http://www.danfinch.com/birds.htm is the web site for Jack. Jack has the worlds only cultivated and irrigated dogwood tree orchard grown exclusively for production of berries to feed bluebirds! He had to get off the phone at 9:30 PM last night because he still had a couple hours worth of nestboxes to cut out, Jack is in his 80's. He also likes to get up an hour before daylight because the bluebirds begin singing their hearts out 30 minutes before true light! Dang I want to be like Jack when I'm 80!!! In deep woods across the south with mature trees there is going to be a huge number of flying squirrels. I have seen two sections of my bluebird trail go from 90% Eastern bluebirds to 90% flying squirrels and NO other cavity nesters successful at raising young. I have actually opened a box and caught a flying squirrel with a bluebird egg in it's mouth with yolk running out of the now broken egg! Over half of the people attending my bluebird programs this year have seen a flying squirrel. (I had boxes for ten years before EVER seeing one!) Over half of the people already have bluebird nestboxes. Those with flying squirrels often cannot raise bluebirds. They didn't know that with flying squirrels the boxes need to be well away (twice the distance away from the height of the tallest launch site of a flying squirrel EG a power pole 60 feet tall will need the nestbox 120 feet away) from any trees or power poles where the squirrels can "fly/glide" to the nestbox. Flying squirrel populations have EXPLODED in this entire region over the last 20 years along with the number of bluebird nestboxes installed! A flying squirrel will lay on it's back with legs outstretched and clamp down on your hand just like an arm from a Venus flytrap plant if you try to pick them up. They are very strong, have sharp claws and very sharp teeth! A bluebird hopping down into a dark nestbox and landing on the soft belly of a flying squirrel would be doomed! I very often find where a bluebird nest is taken by flying squirrels and the bluebirds feathers are used in the flying squirrel nest. If you are having nests built in nestboxes and then the birds disappear then a predator is taking your birds or harassing the nest site. Either a four legged climbing creature, a snake or if all guards are used then a flying predator either in the form of a flying squirrel or possibly one of the smaller owls or hawks. What about members of the jay family or magpies in the western areas? Cats: Simply place the nestbox at least 7 feet off the ground on a smooth metal pipe and at least 7 feet from the nearest high object they can jump from and then to the nestbox. For those with neighbors with cats you might want to run a "hot wire" from an electric fence charger about 12" off the ground around your property. It can be turned on at night to protect against raccoons, cats etc. or when you see cats in your yard to teach them to avoid your property. KK Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:16:50 EST I love cats. I can't imagine my life without one. My cats stay indoors where they belong, where they are safe. Cats are not native to this country and are destroying our wildlife. If you have a cat prowling your BB bouses, or anywhere for that matter, get a live trap and trap it. Take it to the humane society and pray if finds an owner that is more responsible. I personally am sick of picking up bird body parts for people. Does this sound terrible? It is! This is the time to start trapping. They are out looking for mates and you can stop them from populating. Jon & Sean Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 12:20:42 -0500 Molly & Leah; We have seven (7) new introduced cats at a stable where eastern blubirds have raised 4 successful broods in the last 2 years. This is a spot with many breeding house sparrows, AND we have a cemetery abutting the property with good bluebird production. We cannot pull our stable HOSP decoy/EABL boxes because the HOSPs will simply move next door (which they do in a limited way) and cause havoc. We're installing a test box that has a dowell-fence around the roof (cat thus can't jump onto roof) with two enticing roof perches; one 8" high, 2nd one sticking out of pole 4 feet high. Box is coated with formica (cat can't claw its way up box). Box goes onto standard 1" conduit pole mounted over 1/2" conduit so we can incrementally raise, plus lower box for monitoring. We'll also spritz coyote urine around site. (Coyotes eat cats locally.) We have absolutely no idea if any of this will work, but it beats doing nothing and having the cemetery site wiped out. We can't do anything with the cat's owner unfortunately. We'll keep records of results. Dot, eastern Mass. Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 22:36:19 EST Here's another idea that worked for me. I occasionally saw a cat (the same one) around my house at night. The birds (except starlings) had stopped coming to my feeders, and even though I had only seen the cat at night, I suspected that this was the reason. I heard that mothballs would deter cats (and possibly other predators also), so I bought 4 boxes and put them all around my yard. Within a few days, the birds reappeared at my feeders, and all seems well. I haven't seen the cat in weeks. Maybe its owner just got smart, but I think at least part of it had to do with the mothballs. They say if the animals eat these, it will at the very least make them sick and most likely kill them. But, most I asked said that only a very stupid cat would eat a mothball. Anyway, just another suggestion. Lisa Miller Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 06:26:43 -0600 Do cats kill rattlesnakes? I live in a little city out in the country that backs up to ranchland. Frequently residents tell me that they have cats that are left outside to ward off rattlesnakes. "Better a cat than a child" is a comment I've heard when I wonder about a pet coming up against a 5-foot rattlesnake. What about scorpions? Do cats keep a scorpion population down? Thanks! Pauline Tom Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 07:35:09 -0600 A cat might kill a small rattlesnake... and a scropion....... I wouldn't bet on the cat surviving either.. My outside cats concentrate on smaller critters that those... mice mostly, and big bugs. With a fair amount of human and animal traffic on our place, we see few rattlesnakes; maybe that's the theory they are working on; with cats traveling the place at all hours, there aren't a lot of good hiding places for a snake. There are no scropions in my part of the country. My cats did bring a small (14") bull snake into the living room one day last summer. It was virtually unharmed, and I took it away from them. I'm not sure they could have killed it. -Theresa"at"BowEcho.com Do cats kill rattlesnakes? ... Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 20:03:59 -0700 hey all I don t speak up much but ill try a little somethin today! I think cats may keep rattlesnake populations away from their turf by removing their main food source--meeces-- my little epiphany, Andy Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 18:45:46 -0600 Andy and All, Perhaps cats do keep rattlesnake populations down in my area where rattlesnakes are occasionally seen - by removing vermin. Bluebirds and other native songbirds are killed by these cats. Bird-friendly programs promote keeping pet cats inside. I've encouraged neighbors to keep their cats inside. What's the bird-friendly answer when neighbors keep cats in order to lessen the chance of a small child encountering a rattlesnake? Pauline Tom Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 11:55:43 -0700 (PDT) It's been my experience that rattlesnakes are present around homes and barns because there is usually abundant prey (rodents). Cats probably kill the little rattlers, and smaller bullsnakes, garters, coachwhips, etc, not to mention tons of birds and little furry things. If these little furry things are reduced by a barnyard full of cats, the snakes really have no reason to be around. As for taking on an adult rattler, give that gato a Darwin Award! I would think that cats do a good job at knocking off scorpions too. My resident nemesis feline kills just about anything in my yard, particularly what's left of the fragmented population of New Mexico Whiptail lizards in my area. If my sister's cat- exterminating moose of dog (Bubba) wasn't also such a good lizard and bird hunter, I'd let him roam my yard for a few weeks and do some "cleansing." Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 18:54:00 -0600 Hello from the clay hills of Keya Paha county in northern Nebraska, When I
was a kid (back in the '40's) we had a calico mother cat who routinely brought
rattlesnakes in to feed her kittens. Finally we got to see her in action. She
would get the snake to coil and tease it until it struck at her stretching the
snake out at which moment she would spring into the air and alight astraddle the
snake and sieze it right behind the head. Then she would drag the dead snake
back to the kittens straddling it as she walked. It was quite a sight to see her
drag in a 4' snake. So, yes, a really hungry mama cat CAN kill a full grown
rattler. Date: 5 Apr 2001 02:12:43 -0000 Hello EveryBIRDie! You'll be interested in "Keep Kitty Indoors" in the recent Oriole Report of
the Journey North website: From earlier discussion, thought you'd be interested in this, for your neighbors and their ferral cats. Happy birding! Stan Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:24:00 -0700 From Gay Nell, in SE Wyoming Dear Bruce and all, Thank you for your generous response to my questions. The PVC type nestbox does call for 1/8 inch, parallel cuts in the pipe, underneath the exit hole, to provide footing for the fledglings, and my husband did do this. Has anyone else used this, and has it proved to be good enough to allow the fledglings to climb out of the nest? Supposedly the slick surface of the PVC pipe is unattractive to house sparrows, as they like to build their nest up onto the wall surface, and that is why we wanted to do the PVC nestbox. We also plan to use monofilament line to discourage house sparrows. As for the cats, we are putting a 7" diam. stovepipe baffle on the metal pipe - as in the plans shown on the NABS Factsheet, under Predator control. This baffle is supposed to deter cats, snakes, and raccoons. I know cats can do amazing feats when they have even a vertical wall to "walk" up on, but perhaps the combination of the slick metal pole and the baffle will stop them. Would appreciate more input on the matter of the cats - if anyone knows whether the metal pole and the baffle stop them, and if anyone knows how high they can jump in the situation of a nestbox on a metal pole with a baffle, installed well away from any other structures that would aid the cats in jumping. On the above-mentioned NABS site, I just found that it is said that a cat can jump 6 feet - but does it mean 6 feet as in a flat-footed jump without any help along the way? And can the cat can get past the baffle or not? I rather think they might be able to hang on to the edge of the baffle, even though it does wobble, and then get their hind legs on the top of it, and climb on up to the nestbox - unless the edge of the baffle is too sharp. I can put the cats indoors during the fledging period. But I assume that's not the only time the cats would pose a danger. We do feed our cats every day - it's not as if they're hungry - but I suppose a bird, or bird eggs, would still be a delicacy to them. Thanks again for all your help. Gay Nell in SE Wyoming Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 20:55:10 -0400 Gay Nell, et al, Bruce Burdett SW NH Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 19:58:23 -0700 (PDT) Hi Gay..This is my experience. Last year I put my EABL nestbox on my backyard power pole (which is 1 ft. diam.) up about 6 ft. so I could reach it to open it. Since I'm 5-7, I have to stand on a chair, etc. to look into the nest. Anyway, to make a long story short, there were & are countless cats roaming around the yard & neighborhood last year. I sat on my deck chuckling & watching several last year just sitting around or standing around trying to figure out how to jump up to the box during the EABL nesting. Not a single cat ever was able to jump that high & the birds many times just sat on the box roof & also looked through the hole at the cat down on the ground. So for my experience 6 ft. up from the ground is plenty & about right for monitoring for me..Hope this helps...Horace in NC. Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 08:43:24 -0700 Barry and all - Thanks much for replying. I appreciate your help and information. The cuts for footing for the fledglings do go all the way through the PVC pipe. Do you think they can get their little feet caught? I probably had better fix that with caulking or Liquid Nails, etc. Drats - wish we'd known about the 8" stovepipe's being better. We're 60 miles from the store. As for the height of the nestbox - what heights are common? I thought the bluebirds prefer a lower height - around 5 to 5 1/2 feet. I want to provide all the temptations possible, given their scarcity around this area - but of course their safety is equally important. Unfortunately, keeping the cats indoors is not an option for us - allergies being one of the reasons. Besides, outdoor cats are a necessity on the farm. I realize natural instincts would cause the cats to kill at any rate, but hunger also would play a part, I believe, in the degree of determination and ferocity the cat would display. On one occasion, I saw and experienced hungry cats - they're demons. Come to think of it, there will be a possibility of wild cats around here - or anywhere else, for that matter. Gay Nell Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 13:21:13 -0400 I recently had bluebirds build a nest in one of our houses. On Friday there
were 3 eggs in the nest. Yesterday there were none. I have seen a raccoon in the
neighborhood and apparently that was the culprit. My question is: How likely
will bluebirds build in this particular house again since we had the raccoon
problem (which I am going to correct)? Shirley Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:31:25 -0700 (PDT) Hi all, I just this year put up new nest boxes and I used the electric pole in our pasture to mount one of my boxes on. My question is: When you use an electric pole do you just forgo any kind of guard?? or is there something I can do?? It is a perfect location wide open space, low grass, except nosy cows that will not allow my normal nest box on the 1" conduit pipe, they think it is a new scratching post I put up for them. So I used the electric pole. Any advise?? Kerry in NE Corner of Okla --- Joe Huber hubertrap"at"webtv.net wrote: Hello Shirley, Racoon raids on nest boxes almost Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:44:06 -0400 (EDT) Hi Kerry, To racoon proof a electric power pole use alumn flashing around the pole about 24" wide just below the nest box. Maybe the power Co. will not like this but it should keep them out of the box. Joe Huber Venice Fl. Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber Problems and Solutions with Cats, Raccoons (& other four legged creatures) and Nestboxes (Part 3) |
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