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Problems and Solutions with Cats, Raccoons (& other four legged creatures) and Nestboxes (Part 1)In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website: Predators and Problems On The Bluebird Trail Subj: Re: Seeing
snakes eat prey Pam, Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 23:10:32 EDT Our cat killed the bluebird parents that were nesting in one of our nest boxes. We looked inside and found 5 eggs. We put a small lamp on the nest last night to keep the eggs warm. Do you know where we can get info about incubating the eggs and raising the young until they can be released into the wild? Do you know where there is a wildlife rescue facility in my area of North East Texas? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you. Phil, I have cc'ed your email to the Bluebird-L mail list for comments from others (in particular for a comment about a wildlife rehabber in NE Texas). Your best bet for the eggs survival (saying nothing about your own sanity if you were to try and incubate, care, and fledge a brood of bluebirds). My hope is someone on the list can help you with your eggs. I feel compelled to comment on the cat issue of this, some which you might not like to hear: 1) Cats should be kept inside. Jim McLochlin Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 21:59:20 -0500 We have an Oklahoma Bluebird Society lady who catches free running cats in a boxtrap. She sends them back to their owners with a note tied around their neck that says "Your cat is being returned this time. Next time you will not be so lucky!". Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 07:12:17 -0500 Phil, It is a sad state to set nesting birds up for failure. Cats cause more problems than I care to go into. I am a bluebirder and a rehaber in the Columbus, Ohio area. You could contact an ornithology professor at a local university and they could give you the temperature to incubate the eggs. Then you have a new problem, who cares and feeds and teaches the young to fly and hunt. The young need to be with 'their own kind' to learn these things. I foster young into boxes so this can take place. Then their is the problem of permits. All native birds are protected under the Migratory Bird Act. One cannot possess a bird, nest, egg, feather without a permit. It is early in the season, consider a lesson learned here. Take the box down or eliminate the cat. Don't set the birds up for failure. Check out our website www.nabluebird.org for help or contact someone online or in your area. Bluebird conservation is a committment not taken lightly and can have fantastic results. When their is a fatal experience, one needs to take a step back and learn and decide if they are helping or hurting wildlife. You can learn lots from this list. Sit back and read for a few days then reevaluate your situation. In the meantime, turn the small lamp off and begin anew. Good luck.... Azure trails... Darlene Sillick Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:34:31 -0500 For cats, raccoons, and animals of this size the best trap to use is the Havahart double door 36" x 11"x 11" which will catch even the most wary animals as they can see all the way through it. (Forestry Suppliers 800-543-4203 item #35776). I add plywood on the sides as if you catch a skunk you can pick the trap up and move it to release, drown, or hypo the skunk. (they will not spray scent if they cannot see you). The first money I ever made as a kid was from catching skunks this way in wooden box traps. Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 20:51:48 -0500 Thanks. I love cats, and when I lost the one that has been reading the paper every day with me for years part of me died with him. However he was a house cat and did not roam and hunt. The cat situation is a very difficult one and both domestic and feral cats are a serious problem for birds and small mammals. A feral cat is usually easily identified as it will snarl and try to attack when it is in a live trap as will most wild animals. As you point out, judgement is called for. Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 20:52:28 -0500 Just speaking for the eastern Oklahoma area I have never had problems with cats with houses 5 feet high and higher. (except once when the post was close to a wooden fence rail). Also regarding kids and curious people (except for real vandalism) having your boxes close with a Phillips screw eliminates most problems. Few kids or others travel with a Phillips screwdriver in their pockets. Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 14:18:52 -0500 Greetings Bluebird Lovers, I wish my first post to this list were not a sad one, but I'm coming to you for information and advice ... Up until this morning there were two eastern bluebirds nesting in our suburban yard in Stillwater, Oklahoma. Being a relatively new homeowner I hadn't noticed many bluebirds around, but was delighted to have such interesting and attractive backyard guests for the past few weeks (especially since I didn't know what to expect when I put up the bluebird box). Sadly, the neighbor's cat also noticed the birds (despite my efforts to keep the cat away), and I was heartbroken this morning when my wife discovered blue feathers in the yard. Sure enough, there were signs of fur around the box, and we assumed the worst. As I left for work, I noticed the solitary male on the fence. I went back to check at lunch, hoping against hope that both birds were there. Tragically, I found four small blue eggs scattered in the yard, cracked, broken and bloody. I'll spare you all the gory details. I didn't see the male again, either, and I'm afraid he may be gone for good. My question: What do you think happened to the eggs since this morning? Did a sparrow come in and take over the nest on short notice without the mother there? I haven't seen many sparrows around lately (cardinals, bluejays, blackbirds, but only the occasional sparrow). Would the male do this? I've read where they sometimes take over the incubation role if the female is killed, so I doubt the protective male (who just last night was dive-bombing a bluejay who got too close to the box) would kick the eggs out of the nest. I'm fairly certain the there's no way the cat could've done it. I think he got the female by pouncing toward the hole, which is about 5-1/2 ft. off the ground.) I'd love to get bluebirds back in the future, but want to prevent anything like this from happening again. Losing the mother was bad enough, but to see her four eggs destroyed within a few hours was heartwrenching. Thanks for your advice! Clay P.S. What are my chances of getting new bluebirds to move back in this season? Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 19:15:24 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif.I In suburban areas, you have cats plus deadly house sparrows, so you might
want to consider using 2-holed hanging mansions (http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett/).
The hanging box will keep them higher than a cat can jump. The 2nd (escape) hole
and larger box seems to give adult bluebirds the advantage over sparrows. This
combination has been very effective on my 40-box trail here in suburban So.
Calif. Clay J Billman wrote: ... Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 09:09:48 -0500 There may be a silver lining in the cloud ... Yesterday when I arrived home from work, I talked to my neighbors about the "cat incident" and the resulting sparrow/wren of the eggs. They said they witnessed the cat attacking the female eastern bluebird and ran outside to intervene. Apparently, the bird was alive when they found it. (This cat has a habit of playing with field mice for about 10 minutes before killing them, which I get to witness on a regular basis, so I imagine he was going through his normal routine.) Not wanting to make me feel worse by allowing me to see the feathers and injured bird, my neighbors laid the bird on some bedding inside their garage. They didn't think it would live after the trauma, but amazingly the bird was flying around later (which they didn't tell me until last night), and when they let her out of the house, she flew to a big, familiar tree in an adjoining yard behind our house. I hope she made it. I haven't seen the male or female since, and I don't know if I should expect to, but at least I can feel better about the female still being alive. Also, thanks to everyone for the kind words and advice. I think I'll try several of your suggested measures with the next nest box, including a telescoping pole that's up about 8-9 feet (I think I can make something work with rebar and a wingnut -- I'll just go to the hardware store and invent something, unless some of you have specific plans) and more out in the open. For good measure, I think I'll get my neighbors a collar and bell for "Herbie" the cat. (Needless to say, they feel awful about the whole ordeal and since they're good friends of mine, they'd be willing to work with me on a solution, short of shipping the furball to Timbuktu. Clay Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 10:29:54 -0400 Clay, the collar and bell will not work. Cats are so slick at hunting that they can move without any sound from the bell. The ONLY solution is to keep the cat inside, and NEVER let it out. The last estimate I read on cats and birds was 13 million annually killed by cats. It's in their genes to hunt. We have four cats, but they never are allowed to go outside (well, they're not supposed to, though one, originally a street cat, is incorrigible, but we get her back in as soon as we can.) I'm glad your mother bluebird survived, and hope she will be able to resume her duties, but I'd be worried about her. Randy Jones ... Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 11:57:01 -0400 Hi everyone, Please, will all birders try to remember that a bird box should not be placed in an area frequented by these predators! It is immoral, in my opinion, to do so. I know some have reported bluebird losses due to native predators like raccoon and snake, which is part of the natural cycle. We can, however, avoid luring bluebirds to an almost certain death by never forgetting the importance of location. If cats and house sparrows are present, don't put up a box - that causes more harm than good to bluebirds! If you have a box that was subjected to attacks by cat or house sparrow, it is your moral duty to remove that box so that other birds are not unfairly tempted to nest in a dangerous situation. Let's please remember that we are supposed to be increasing bluebird numbers, not the other way around. Your yard is not always a safe place, even though you can more easily watch birds. Find someplace better! Forget about belling cats, as it doesn't work. Thanks for listening to my rant - I am tired of these preventable deaths! Dot (north of Syracuse, NY) Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 12:26:38 -0400 To: Dot Forrester, et al,
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 12:39:01 -0400 Hello Dot & All: In my public relations work and as a NABS speaker I am often approached by people desiring to install an Eastern Bluebird (EABL) box. Before I freely give my time to assist the individual they must pass the following test: 1. I visit proposed location and ask if cats are in area. If the owner answers negatively to either of the above criteria - I tactfully refuse to assist. The Bluebird box is there for the Bluebirds, not SOLELY for the pleasure of the property owner. Betty Nichols, Middletown, MD Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 14:48:19 -0500 On May 21, during primetime, National Geographic Explorer will be airing "The secret life of cats" or something like that. You won't be able to get the birds high enough so the cat can't get them. It will catch them feeding for insects on the ground. Bells won't help either, I believe. The only thing that can be done is for cat owners to show responsibility and keep their cats inside. Bill Darnell, Savannah, TN Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 10:41:16 -0400 I have been enjoying over the weekend 5 babies that have hatched in one of my
boxes. I have two. Much to my horror this morning, all of my babies feathers are
laying on the ground. I can only imagine that a raccoon has killed them. I am
sick with guilt that I could not have prevented this. Do you have any ideas? I
am greatful however that I did see the parents. Maybe we can start again. Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 09:52:54 -0400 I have a disturbing Bluebird crisis, right in my yard. Last night, at 8:00pm, I was taking my daily evening walk down the road to the marsh, and walked by the occupied nesting box nd bid Mr. Bluebird good night. I had a great walk, and identified a singing male CANADA WARBLER in the reeds on Pine Hill Rd. Upon arriving back at about 8:20pm, I saw Mr. Bluebird on the telephone wire chirping noisily and sounding agitated. I quickly scanned the area and was just in time to see my sister's cat jump on top of the house, and yank and pull at the box until it came out of the post. I quickly ran to the scene, slapped the cat hard (to all of you animal rights activists, sorry, but it had to be done...) and chased the cat away, with the aid of swooping Chipping Sparrows and valiant and brave Mr. Bluebird, ready to give his life for his wife. The 5 eggs were scattered around the field, the house, was on it's side, the back of it was still intact on the post, and Mrs. Bluebird was nowhere to be seen. The cat had eaten 1 of the eggs, 3 were cracked, and only 1 was left uncracked, so I placed it back in the box. It was dark, so I went inside, hoping and praying for the best. I woke up this morning, and found Mrs. and Mr. Bluebird doing well, and they went into the mini pear tree next to the house, but did not go inside. The house is STURDY AND WELL PLACED on the post, as it always has been, but the cat was heavy, and with a great deal of tugging, could get the house off easily. Is there a chance that they might move back in? Any information would be GREATLY APPRECIATED. Please, could anybody help me????? I am keeping the cat away from the box, so she won't casue any more mischief. Please, will they start over, maybe a possibility??? Thanks, This is a great
deal of help. Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 10:13:22 -0700 If you can't, do the kind thing and take down the box. Unless, of course, you are willing to part with the cat instead. Nicholas... Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 10:49:25 -0400 I'm very sorry to hear of this disaster. When cats do what is "natural" for them, it's truly devastating for all birds.... If put together with screws, I doubt it would have come apart like that, but I'd think twice about leaving it as the height it is now because cats can reach it too easily. Is there a chance that they might move back in? Unpredictable. Wait and see is all you can do, other than providing better protection from all predators. Any information would Please, will they start over, maybe a possibility??? They may not, but others probably will. And it might not be until next year. But if you attracted one pair, I expect you will attract another some time. Good luck. Don't give up, even if they leave. Just try to learn as much as you can from the disaster. The most important lessons are often costly. Randy Jones Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:25:42 -0400 I am sorry, also. I was so excited for them to nest, and their eggs were
scheduled to hatch in another week or so. This sure has ruined my spring, and
I've discussed it with my sister, but the cat HAS to go outdoors, because she's
an outdoor type. I am just hoping they will start over again. Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:30:04 -0400 Yes, but it's my sister's cat, and she makes the rules about her animals,
whether I like it or not. I just hope for the best, because if the cat kills ONE
MORE BIRD, she is a cat without a home. She ruined autumn by killing 6 Snow
Buntings, Winter by killing a flock of American-tree Sparrows, and spring by
mauling and killing the year's first White-throated Sparrow. And now this..... Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:39:38 -0400 I am sorry to. Thanks for your sympathy, I don't need it, but the bluebirds
do. They are sad, I can tell. They are still around, but won't go inside the
house, I don't blame them.... If that cat does any more damage to ANY birds,
whether it be a chickadee or kestrel, she is a cat without shelter. Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:42:11 -0400 Why wait for another killing? You have enough ammunition already to eliminate the cat. I have a trap set now to catch my neighbors cat which I have complained about for 2 years. I warned them if they didn't get the cat neutered so it would stay on their property, I was taking further action. I may lose a great friend and neighbor over it, but I shouldn't have to put up with my wildlife being killed. J. Denise Wilkinson Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 12:06:32 -0700 Do the Bluebirds a favour and TAKE THE BOX DOWN. Agian is the key word. The cat will kill again. Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 12:09:52 -0700 Amen to that. Live cages can be purchased for about $40. There is an animal control in every county. Once a neighbour has to go there to pick up their cat, the wildlife gets a little safer. Nicholas,.. Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 12:00:36 -0400 Hello everyone, Please PLEASE don't put your boxes where cats are known to patrol. It's not the cat's fault that he hunts, but we should be responsible enough to put such a box somewhere else. This cat scenario has been repeated too many times lately. I am not trying to be mean and nasty, but this type of location is really unfair to bluebirds and other cavity nesters. As always, location is all! Belling a cat does not work, and no one can possible watch a box to protect it from a cat for an entire nesting cycle. Why would we want to encourage these bluebirds to nest again under the exact same dangerous conditions??? Dot ... Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 12:20:48 EDT Derek, So sorry for your Blues, It is obvious that you care a great deal
about the birds, BUT your sister's cat has learned and LIKES to hunt, Some cats
never discover the joy of it and some do, your sisters cat has and will continue
to do so, and you will not be able to stop him/her. As much as you would like to
have the Bluebirds renest it may not be a good ideal, in a way you are setting
them up for disaster, Maybe the best bet here would be to take the nestbox down,
and let the Blues go nest somewhere safer. And at a point in time when you no
longer have cats roaming free you can then place a nestbox on your property. For
now maybe you can just enjoy the birds from afar. I would hate to hear that the
cat had done it again and that you had known it was possible he would. Much luck
to you and please do what is best for the birds. Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 12:30:01 -0400 To: Don Cragin, et al, I make no apologies to the cat-lovers out there. Any cat that's allowed to
roam free outdoors is fair game, in my book. A roaming cat is a killing machine,
pure and simple. Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 12:48:52 -0400 Bruce, This cat that I was talking about of my neighbors...I bought a BB gun just
for that purpose. He likes it! He just keeps coming back for more! I've tried
the hose, and threw a pot of hot coffee on him, and he likes that too! And don't
get me wrong...I am a cat lover. I have 4. Two are 15 yrs old and have never
hunted and don't know how. I have two younger ones that do, however they only go
outside when I do. They were once wild and don't care for the outside world. But
they are great on controlling mice and voles. And the occasional chipmunk that I
can typically get away from them unharmed. Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 10:59:30 PDT I tuned in on BLUEBIRD-L after coming in from monitoring one of our trails....and I was devastated...."BLUEBIRD CRISIS" the Inbox said five or six times. I thought that the world had caved in. Cats, HOWR, HOSP, snakes, bad weather, vandalism are all a part of the down side of what we do by way of helping to conserve/preserve these beautiful birds. But "CRISIS?" No, I don't think so. Please, and without being testy, may I suggest that "CRISIS" in the Subject Box ought to be just that and it ought to be reserved for one of those CODE BLUE OR CODE RED situations which we all hope will never come about...but with which we can all identify and for which we can all proffer solutions. Dean Sheldon, Huron County, OH/just south of Lake Erie Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 13:09:45 -0500 http://www.audubon.org/bird/cat/ Since cats are getting some discussion, as well they deserve, thought some
would be interested in this site. Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 14:53:58 -0500 Nestboxes can be made relatively safe from cats, by mounting them on metal poles away from any climbable fences, and placing them high enough that the cat cannot jump up there, or jump up at the birds as they enter/exit the nestbox. They can even be placed on telescoping poles so that they can be monitored at a comfortable height, then moved up well out of harm's way. My houses are all fastened with screws, which would also help prevent cats (or racoons) from pulling the nestbox apart. Kate Oschwald Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 16:17:13 -0400 I have been a lurker here at the bluebird list and have learned so much information from so many people. However, today, I know that I can no longer benefit from this list. Along with the wealth of knowledge on this list, also comes a wealth of how to destroy or harm other species. Stomping sparrows and clipping their wings so that they're easy prey.. The last straw today was the BBgun used to shoot the cat and the hot coffee to throw on it.. I realize that everyone has the right to make their choice on this matter. I also realize there are two sides to every story. I have had 9 Bluebird boxes on my property for several years and am proud to say that this year I have had two sets of EABL fledglings and currently have 3 TRES nests with eggs. I understand the frustration and sadness when an EABL or TRES dies for whatever reason. But I also understand that to help one species, one doesn't need to maim and torture another. If I have a problem, I modify rather than kill. SO far it has worked for me. . We spend so much time trying to preserve the bluebird, a beautiful part of nature, but I question whether we really know what Nature is. What are we teaching those that watch us especially the young eyes. I realize that some of you will not agree with me, but ask that you respectfully ponder the above thoughts. Again I thank you all for the wealth of knowledge. Happy Bluebirding. Kim
Harding Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 13:20:42 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Consider hanging boxes. See my web site below. ... Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 17:13:48 -0700 Sorry to lose you. I must comment though, aboutyour line: "...but I question whether we really know what Nature is...." Nature is NOT putting up boxes for the birds to nest in. Putting up a box is interfering with nature. With that intervention comes responsibility. I'll leave it at that. Nicholas... Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 20:40:12 -0400 Consider raising the height of the box. Monitoring the box will be a paint, but the box will be safe from the cat. Bluebirds will nest up to 20 feet off the ground. The 5 to 6 foot height recommendation is mostly for ease of monitoring. You can get a 10 foot section of sturdy conduit for $5 or less, strap it to your existing post, and put the box well out of harm's way. ..david Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:56:17 -0500 This is a difficult subject as we have a lot of both cat and bird lovers.
Also it is really impossible to put up nestboxes where there are no cats as a
mature tom will sometimes range over a mile or more. Put your boxes at least six
feet high (but so you can still see into a side or front opening box) on 3/4"
metal poles, or hang them as has been discussed previously. If you have feral
cats in your area (domestic cats that have gone wild, and this is very common in
the southern portions of the US) cage trap them and give them to your local
animal control officer). It is usually easy to recognize them as they will be
very wild when you see them outdoors, and they will snarl and act like a wild
animal when they are in a cage trap. They are deadly killers of ground nesting
songbirds, game birds, and small mammals and should be eliminated wherever
possible. Bluebird Bob, Northeast Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 07:36:56 EDT I agree with the person who suggested a hanging box, and shame on those of you who said to kill the cat. First of all, it is illegal and it can get you sued by the owner. Second of all, it is not the cat's fault. Also, I know at least here, there is something called a leash law that prohibits animals from roaming into other's yards. I once saw a very pretty little cat in my yard, with a collar and license on. I very carefully put a note on the collar that basically said, "If I see this cat in my yard again, it will have a nice home somewhere far away from my yard, and in the care of someone more responsible." I have never seen the cat again. I would not have hurt the cat, but I sure felt like hurting the owner. Please, folks, don't blame a cat whose nature is to hunt and kill. I would suggest strongly to your sister, that even though the cat likes the outdoors, to never let it out without constant supervision. This is possible, because I have a friend who does this. She lets her cat out every afternoon on a very long leash to roam around HER yard. Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 07:59:48 -0400 Actually, the female entered the box this morning and both mates have been near the box all morning. The cat has kept her distance. When she gets within 100' to the box, I throw rocks at her!!!! Nicholas A. Zbiciak wrote: ... Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 08:08:46 -0400 Yes, the subject says it all. The Bluebirds have gone back inside the box. Now everybody thinks I'm cruel for not taking the box down, but, I am also entitled to my own opinion, and am sticking to maybe purchasing a BB gun, throwing rocks at the cat, and putting a bell on the collar. I think I am just going to 'shut my mouth' for now, everything I seem to say strikes up some sort of turmoil, anger, or worse. Derek Cragin Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 08:03:11 -0400 Lisa, et al, I never recommended KILLING the d!"at"#$%! cat! Heaven forbid. I like cats, too, when they're indoors. I just recommended stinging him a little with a BB to get his attention. ( I still recommend it.) I've been hit by these things many times, and I'm none the worse off for it. When we were kids we used to shoot EACH OTHER with them routinely when we were playing 'Daniel Boone'. (Have I told you my story about Howard May?) Bruce Burdett, NH Bluebird Conspiracy, Sunapee NH blueburd"at"srnet.com... Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 08:05:14 -0700 So you are able to monitor the box/cat 24/7. This doesn't sound manageable. ... Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 08:27:50 -0400 Thank you! I needed that encouragement. Virtually everybody on the list tells me to shoot the cat, kill it.... I might take the box down, but the bluebirds are in it now! I can't just kick them out! Thanks, Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 08:19:33 -0700 Derek: You asked for help and people have offered it. The bottom line is this: If you take the time and energy to place a Box, you must take on the responsibilty that the box is safe. There have been some suggestions out here about making it safe from that cat--a telescopic pole was recommended by at least one person. If you leave the box in its present situation, it is nothing more than a death trap. That is why I say to take it down. Any bird lover would be upset to hear about creating a dangerous habitat. Derek, this was a tragedy. You need to learn from it. Nicholas... Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 08:22:06 -0400 Derek and all, Yes, you are entitled to your opinion. How nice that you are going to stand watch 24 hours a day for 5 or so weeks. How nice that you are deliberately setting up the same deadly scenario for your bluebirds as before. How sad for bluebird conservation! Did you really expect members of this list to react with delight at your horrifying post? Dot ... Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 09:11:40 -0400 Yes, but then my Humane society loving neighbors would sue me and have me thrown in jail for 4 consecutive life terms. I may be exagerrating, but not by much.... Derek... Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 10:07:32 -0400 Hey, don't get smart with me! I'm a bluebird AND cat lover! Nicholas A. Zbiciak wrote:... Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 10:16:11 -0400 Now you make me sound like a killer. I wasn't trying to do any harm, just let the poor birds nest. The cat hasn't done any more stuff, and she's been slapped enough and squirted with a bottle to know to stay away. Derek... Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 10:17:54 -0400 Actually, the female entered the box this morning and both mates have been
near the box all morning. The cat has kept her distance. When she gets within
100' to the box, I throw rocks at her!!!! -- Keep the cat IN the house. Throw the sister out. Dixie Dickinson Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 07:31:14 -0500 How high to be safe? I like the telescoping pole idea and have considered it myself. One reason that I did not pursue it is that I thought the boxes had to be at about 5' to attract the bluebirds. Have you used the idea? I would be interested in knowing how you did it. Thanks... Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 10:41:56 -0400 Hello all, I was very disturbed to see how many posts were sent in response to the raid of the bluebird nest by a cat before a couple folks finally posted that the reason the eggs were destroyed was that the nest box was not properly mounted. This is beginning bluebirding, Bluebirding 101. Cats are everywhere. I have wild Bobcats here that would make an easy meal out of the cat that tore the nest box off of what I presume is a wooden post or one that is easy to climb. If it hadn't been a cat, it would have been a raccoon, opossum or other hungry animal. The predator is not the blame for the loss of these bluebird eggs. Had the box been mounted properly, 6 feet up on a $3.75 greased metal pole the bluebird eggs that were destroyed would be hatching within a few days. Even in the unlikely event the cat was able to jump that high, how could it tear the box off the post if it was sitting on top of it? How many more times must we read about similar problems that are so easily prevented? We all need to occasionally spend some time reading and re-reading the Best of Bluebird-L that Jim McLochlin has spent so much time compiling. There is a tremendous wealth of information here. The most informed and experienced bluebirders and authors among us can learn much from periodically studying this tremendous source. One of the biggest problems we have today is that when something doesn't work the way we want it to, the overwhelming majority of people place the blame on other people, other creatures or other things. I suggest we begin to look inward, and, to first ask what I could have done differently to prevent any unwanted result. It is amazing how much easier life is when we take this approach. That is because it is so much easier to control our own actions than it is to control the actions of other people, other animals, or other forces. Gary Springer, Writing from the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains in Northeast Georgia,
further north than most of South Carolina and a bit of North Carolina Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 10:49:01 -0400 Hey now! That's going a little too far, throw the sister out??!! I can keep the cat in. ... Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 11:04:34 -0400 I REALLY wish everybody would understand that the cat didn't CLIMB UP THE POLE, but rather JUMPED UP AND POUNCED ON THE BOX. I am getting sick and tired of being blamed for not properly mounting the box right. I HAVE MOUNTED IT CORRECTLY. Here's how it's mounted: Mounted with four 5 inch long nails, on a 6 foot wooden pole which is set 1 foot in the ground, which makes it the desired height of 5 feet. So, what if I have mounted it correctly? Now, people make me feel stupid for saying that I 'have not mounted it right, because it could have been prevented easily.' The cat DID JUMP UP ON THE BOX AND RIP IT OFF. I can tell a cat from a raccoon anyday. Please don't think that I'm being mean in any way, I was just asking for help, not looking for attention or sympathy. Derek Cragin ... Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 11:26:01 -0400 I've earned some great hate from bluebirders on this list. But, anyway, the male and female Eastern Bluebirds have kicked out the Tree Swallows and have begun another nest in that box. The Tree Swallows are building another nest in the other box about 40' away from this one. Other birds building nests on the property: BALTIMORE ORIOLES Derek Cragin Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 11:53:52 -0400 Don and all, We are all so incredibly passionate about what we love and hate. And each of us have such different and varied views. When I first signed up on Monday I was desperate for help for I was devastated at the loss of my babies. But I felt I was viciously attacked by some and I didn't feel I deserved that. I think we all need to try to be compassionate and help one another instead of attack and pointing the finger of blame. I know what I am reading from everyone will help me so much in my quest for learning about bluebirds and nature. For I am amazed at the wealth of knowledge that is here. I wish now to explain further my cat problem. I actually got permission from my neighbor who owns the tom cat to throw water, rocks and yes use the bb gun. And I should have said that I threw the pot of coffee at him. He might have been splattered with a few drops for I'm not very successful at aiming at my target. How would everyone like to get up each morning and see a cat sitting underneath their bird feeder? This problem with the cat goes way beyond him killing my wildlife. He roams all day and all night, with night being a problem for me. Doesn't everyone enjoy and deserve a good nights sleep? This I have not had since the cat arrived! He moans and cries all night long, jumping into my window boxes. They are ruined. I feel like I could go mad at times for not being able to sleep. I believe I have been patient enough with my neighbor and have called him many times in tears and frustration. But as I said earlier, it was recommended that I press charges against him which I chose not to do. I said that I had set out a trap the first of the week and I have not caught anything. No cat, no raccoons. So I hope me giving my neighbors my plans for their cat has resulted in them either getting him fixed or given to someone else. A non-neutered cat brings up a whole other issue. This is obviously an irresponsible owner. One that lives on his house boat all summer and is not taking care of his animals. They are left to fend for themselves outside. And this is the second time he has adopted a tom. The lady yesterday that has now unsubscribe because of my response, I am sorry for that but trade places with me. After a few days, tell me she wouldn't be ready to kill the cat. J. Denise Wilkinson Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 11:05:15 -0500 Here's some thoughts about the telescoping pole idea ... If the box is mounted higher (7 feet or so), wouldn't that encourage sparrows? (I've read that they prefer to be higher off the ground than eastern bluebirds.) If the box is mounted low (while discouraging sparrows) it will make it easier for a cat to get the bluebirds. Which is the easier problem to solve? Cats or sparrows? I'm thinking that the cat isn't as big a problem as the sparrows, which will invade nests and kill the entire bluebird brood, mother and all. Cats can be kept indoors (or sent to the country to live with in-laws in my neighbor's case), but sparrows are quite common, and the plans for traps look complicated. I'll be moving the box away from any vegetation and fences, too, which would be less attractive to sparrows/wrens and cats could climb ... So what should I do? (Short of scrapping the nestbox altogether ...) Here's an idea -- has anyone thought of getting a dog that would scare the cats away? By the way, since last week's tragedy with the cat and (presumed) sparrow teaming up to disturb the nest (while the mother bird was recovering from the cat attack, something invaded the nest and kicked out/destroyed the eggs, for those of you just now hearing my tale), I haven't seen any bluebirds (though the female lived and flew away) or sparrows around for that matter. I haven't seen wrens in over a year there. There's also no indication that a sparrow or swallow has taken over the box, which I'm planning on taking down. The only bird around now is a bluejay, and I don't think he's to blame. In closing, I've noticed that several of us are getting beat up on the cat/sparrow issue. Please don't flame us for inviting bluebirds into a deathtrap -- we all have the same goals in mind -- trying to figure out the safest plan of action in order to PROTECT these beautiful birds and encourage them to PROSPER. For what it's worth ... Clay Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 12:15:14 -0400 Dear Don, First, my post was written in response to those with plenty of bluebirding experience that blamed the cat, and, to help prevent this common and easily prevented scenario from happening again. Second, the only reason I am now responding to your post directed to me is that backyard bluebirders just have to understand that: Mounting a nest box on a WOODEN post is probably the biggest and most common mistake in providing back yard nest boxes for bluebirds. As was written, had it not been for the cat, any number of other predators may well have eaten the chicks after the bluebirds had made an even larger investment in time and effort. And, the additional time lost may have reduced that bluebird pair's number of nest attempts for the season. And, in the past, many have written that a nest box mounted at 5 feet is simply not high enough because almost any cat or raccoon can jump that height. That is why I wrote 6 feet. Knowing you have a huge cat running around, why not use 6 and a half feet? Telescoping poles were suggested. Hanging boxes are also an option but in my experience, Eastern Bluebirds strongly prefer to nest away from trees, and, hanging boxes are still an invitation to other types of predation here in the east, including cats, squirrels and snakes. But, it is so simple to mount a nest box on a one inch metal EMT pole at a height that is higher than the distance a cat or raccoon can jump and to apply some grease to it, that it seems to me this is the best solution. Also, using bolts or other hardware to connect a nest box to metal poles will add enough strength to withstand the weight of any cat or 25 pound raccoon that might jump up to the box if you happen to have an exceptional animal that happens to be able to out jump most other animals of its species. You might also increase the thickness of the hole guard after incubation begins to prevent creatures from reaching in to rob the nest. It has been shown that wooden predator guards can be stacked to gradually increase the thickness of the front of the box to ten inches or more without causing abandonment. Even at 5 inches thick, eggs near the bottom of a 7 inch deep nest box are probably very safe in the unlikely event that the cat can jump 6 and a half feet up to the box. You wrote looking for help to solve your problem. You now know what can be done to prevent the cat, as well as many other similar predators, from being a critical factor with bluebird nest attempts in your yard. Gary Springer, Writing from the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains in Northeast Georgia,
further north than most of South Carolina and a bit of North Carolina ... Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 12:41:13 -0400 Hello all, I have been asked off list if an opossum will climb to raid a nest. I saw an opossum up 30 feet in a tree. The reason it was there was food, not for the view. It raided a squirrel nest. I'm sure bluebird eggs and chicks would satisfy this animals strong appetite for flesh as well. Gary Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 15:07:32 -0700 ... I use a 1/2 " pole and put a 3/4 " pole overtop of it. I put two pins in to hold the 3/4 " pole up. You can pull the two pins out and lower the box to check it. Maynard R Sumner Flint, Michigan Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Galatian 6:7 Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 16:37:24 EDT I think that if everyone tried a little harder to help people who had questions or problems, or were not as experienced as some, instead of trying to belittle them for their opinions, we'd all get along a little better. I think that if you send people email basically telling them that they are stupid for trying, even if you think they are, then you should expect some negative feedback. I don't know what was said or why, but I do know that if we all put up boxes where there are no predators, then there would be no boxes. I don't know, but I would assume that Mr. Cragin did not realize the cat came into his yard and could jump (since he did have the metal pole) onto his box and knock it down. I live next to a field where a hawk lives. He keeps most predators such as squirrels, etc away, but he also is a predator. The bluebirds who fledged from my box this spring would probably have nested much closer to the hawk and his territory if not for my box. There are a million ways to look at every story and problem, and I think we should all try to spread our knowledge (especially those more experienced) to those who are less experienced (like me). We are all just trying to do the best we can for the bluebirds, and I think we need to realize that. There are many more beneficial ways to teach someone a different way of doing things than by talking down to him. I think we should all just try to get along, because after all, we're all signed up for this list because we love those little bluebirds, isn't that correct? Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 18:10:08 EDT Below are quotations (with spelling errors left intact) one from each Message posted to Bluebird-L for Thursday 5/18/00 (I get Bluebird-L in digest format so I won't know what has transpired on the list until tomorrow morning) If I were to point out one quotation that signifies my feelings it would be the first one (which happens to be from Bluebird Bob). Cats are personal and whenever we strike out a personal object we can expect backlash. Many of the suggestions are very valid means for any trail that is subject to four legged predators (i.e., raising the height of the box, using a hanging box, getting the cats attention). When we do set out a nestbox it is our responsibility to select a habitat that is relatively safe from predators. Some of the quotes get at the root of bluebirding (i.e., the amount of time we spend trying to preserve nature) and whether we sometimes loose that focus. The somewhat opposite side is that we indeed are fooling with nature when we put up nest boxes. We are indeed are all responsible for the acts we commit in the name of conservation. I'm pretty sure we are not as responsible to each other as we are to God (but I won't go there). One thing is for sure the "crisis" we create are indeed our own creation. It can also be the excitement that keeps us motivated. Cat's are domesticated animals that can be loved, hated, and obviously unpredictable. Some of the problem is the cat is out of our control (my sisters, neighbors, etc.). They are doing what is natural for them in a non native habitat (sounds like house sparrows to me (but I won't go there either)). Probably the best solution for cats is indeed to live trap them and turn them into your animal control facility. A domestic cat will probably be returned to it's owner (after a fee of course) and they will have a chance to try and keep the cat from doing what it does so well again. Many cats are indeed friend to homeowners and farmers alike (eliminating mice and voles), my cats seem to love the house flies that get in our house. For your own cats I would recommend keeping them inside, they will lead longer healthier lives. "This is a difficult subject as we have a lot of both cat and bird lovers." "Consider raising the height of the box." "We spend so much time trying to preserve the bluebird, a beautiful part of nature, but I question whether we really know what Nature is. What are we teaching those that watch us especially the young eyes." "Nature is NOT putting up boxes for the birds to nest in. Putting up a box is interfering with nature. With that intervention comes responsibility." "Consider hanging boxes." "Nestboxes can be made relatively safe from cats, by mounting them on metal poles away from any climbable fences, and placing them high enough that the cat cannot jump up there, or jump up at the birds as they enter/exit the nestbox. " "Cats, HOWR, HOSP, snakes, bad weather, vandalism are all a part of the down side of what we do by way of helping to conserve/preserve these beautiful birds. But "CRISIS?" No, I don't think so. " "Somehow you need to get this cat's attention and convey a Message. " "But they are great on controlling mice and voles." "As much as you would like to have the Bluebirds renest it may not be a good ideal, in a way you are setting them up for disaster, " "Please PLEASE don't put your boxes where cats are known to patrol. It's not the cat's fault that he hunts, but we should be responsible enough to put such a box somewhere else." "Live cages can be purchased for about $40." "Agian is the key word. The cat will kill again." "Why wait for another killing?" "I am sorry to." "Yes, but it's my sister's cat, and she makes the rules about her animals, whether I like it or not. " "I was so excited for them to nest,..." "Unpredictable. Wait and see is all you can do, other than providing better protection from all predators." "When cats do what is "natural" for them, it's truly devastating for all birds." "I have a disturbing Bluebird crisis, right in my yard." Jim McLochlin Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 01:13:27 -0500 I'm running a day behind trying to catch up with my Bluebird Digest information, so bear with me on this topic. If you are sick of the cat/bird discussion, please delete this Message. Could someone please give me more information about the cat traps discussed on this list? Can you head me in the right direction for places they may be purchased? The discussions about not putting up nestboxes in hazardous areas got me thinking. Last year the chipmunks ate the E. Phoebe's eggs, the crows got the Blue Jay's eggs and I don't know what got the Robin's eggs. For the last two years, the N. Cardinals have raised a Brown Headed Cowbird chick who begged for food so much that they left their own juvenile to fend for himself. This year, the Blue Jays got the Robin's eggs and the crows were strafing the Red-tailed Hawk today. I'm assuming the hawk was cruising the crow's nesting territory. We have a feral cat in the neighborhood. With cats eating "hundreds of millions" of birds each year, I don't think I'm the only one. I grew up on a farm and we never "had a cat." However, there always were cats around to eat the rodents, apparently birds, etc. If anyone thinks cats don't exist on these bluebird trails people are putting out in only the "best" habitats, they are probably mistaken. Therefore, should they stop putting up the trails? I am not trying to minimize how tragic was this cat/bird incident, nor mitigate our responsibility for our actions. I think we do the best we can to help bluebirds succeed, and we will never be 100% effective. We have to accept that. Molly Miller PS I realize this discussion began because homeowners chose to let their pet cat loose outside without being in control of it. I am not defending their behavior. I have a neighbor who has a silent fence for their dog. They don't use it because it would hurt the dog! In the meantime another neighbor, who didn't want to bother their dog with voice control or leashes, had their dog smooshed by a truck on the road right in front of their young son. The mom whined about how traumatic the "accident" had been on her son. Sorry, I couldn't work up much sympathy for the family...for the dog, yes. Okay, got it off my chest. Thanks very much. Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 10:40:33 -0700 Molly: You wrote: Could someone please give me more information about the cat traps discussed
on this list? Can you head me in the right direction for places they may be
purchased? I purchase the trap that I use at a farming supply store. It is a heavy-gauged steel wire live trap. They come in several sizes, depending on the size critter you need to move away. The dimensions of this trap is approx. 3 feet by 1 foot by 1 foot. I paid $49 for it. The trap is set by putting food at the back of the box and opening the door. There is a platform near the rear that is stepped on by the critter going for the bait; this closes the door. This trap in causes no physical harm. Nicholas Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 08:43:22 -0700 Good morning, Gary: Really great response. Saying "that terrible cat!" when the cat is not terrible... just being itself, is a copout. Sometimes, if you do everything you possibly can and the eggs or fledgelings are still lost, you know you've done your darndest. But if you set up the nestboxes where predators can easily get a fast meal, and don't make it as difficult as possible to thwart them, there's no one to blame but yourself. Regards, Joanne ... Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 08:52:56 -0700 Hi, Denise: Wow! I think I'd be ready to try some drastic measures myself. I think many of us pictured a regular-type normal neighbor whose cat just wandered over into your yard on a regular basis; not the cat-from-hell! not to mention the neighbor-from-hell. Sorry for your predicament...I don't think so many people would have jumped so hard if they had known the circumstances. Hope you can get a greased metal pole mount soon. It won't help with the destruction of your sleep, flower boxes, etc. but at least he'll have a heck of a time getting to the birdhouse. Regards, Joanne Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 12:59:32 -0500 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas ...I thought the list had gone down for a few days and just got re-subscribed on yesterday in time for the "Cat Balloo". So sorry to see all the ruffled feathers! I want to thank all those who tried to calm the waters and there were lots of good ideas at predator control. We do have to remember that perfect predator guards and all the grease in the world will not stop a cat from reaching a box mounted under 72" from the ground to the bottom of the box. It needs to be even higher if there is a pipe guard or something that the cat can reach on a jump. I have heard of one cat that jumped 84" to a box. How many on this list have boxes mounted under 72" off the ground? I NEVER see a cat on my property but see tracks every morning in my muddy driveway! Our snows this year showed cats criss crossing my whole property at night. None of us have the perfect area where no predators might show up at a moments notice. Cats and House Sparrows are here to stay so we need to deal with them in a way acceptable to each of us when they show up! Someone was worried about the boxes being higher than 60" attracting house sparrows. Well millions of House Sparrows nest in boxes mounted at 48" and I had one pair of House Sparrows that nested in a box with the entrance hole 27" off the ground! Although I have vacant Purple Martin houses at 21' off the ground most sparrows in my yard prefer nestboxes mounted "at" about 60"! Use the 4" PVC nestboxes along with your regular wood boxes and this helps the bluebirds to have a nesting site in the PVC if the sparrows use the wooden ones. Remember that bluebirds have nested in woodpecker cavities for eons and woodpeckers seldom drill a hole lower than 12' off the ground. Most in my area are in the 3050' height. Depending on your property situation, electric fences can be built to keep raccoons, 'possums, cats and other predators from entering your domain. Most county extension offices or Master Gardeners can instruct you about these fences as they have been perfected to repel 'coons and deer from home gardens. We have over 300 people very dedicated to learning about bluebirds on this list alone so please let us all reach out a helping hand and truly HELP those on this list that fall into one of the many depressing "pitfalls" of bluebirding. Remember that we are all heading down the same road of conservation and few of us have Cadillac's for boxes! Most of mine are FORD models (Fix Or Repair Daily) Let us encourage others to upgrade their boxes and poles, add devices like predator guards ETC but try not to run over them with your HummVee's when they have a flat tire day in the middle of the road. KK Date: 20 May 2000 23:00:32 -0000 Hello Everybirdie! I'm not interested in "prolonging" our cat dilemma; except to comment that as a bird lover and a cat lover, I am NOT in favor of "BB'ing" anything! If there are circumstances warranting an "animal's being put out of its misery," there are humane procedures to doing so...not just "bb'ing" something to get its attention. It would not understand. Get a cat book on training a pet for how to discourage cats from doing what you dislike...though not an expert on this topic, I think "squirting it" with water (water pistol, hose, depending upon distance away) is one possibility. What if the cat were to look around, the "BB" hitting its eye and blinding it FOR LIFE??? Is that a "humane" thing to do? Thanks for letting me "air" this concern, that the cat should be treated humanely!!! Stan, St. Paul, MN Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 23:15:04 -0500 Wow! Things got a bit hot when I was away from the list for a day! However nature is such that there has to be room for cats and other predators too. The only real problems occur when man's activities upset the balance, and we have much of this across the world. I had mentioned the fairly new idea of hanging boxes to minimize cat and other predator problems. I am fortunate in having a number of situations where long oak limbs reach out into pastures and 15 out of my 80 boxes have been hung on these with good success this year. The only predator problems that I have had with these are the ever present house sparrows. However for those members who have a small number of boxes or just one or two in their yards the hanging pole/arm combinations that the bird magazines and bird stores advertise for feeders will work very well to minimize problems with cats and other predators. Bluebird Bob, Northeast Oklahoma. Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 08:57:43 -0700 (PDT) Rob Yaksich ABQ, NM nice Wow! It appears I've missed quite the row on felines and pajaros azul. My remedy for cats roaming into my yard is Bubba, a 150 lb. Akita, Malamute, Great Dane, Wolf mix who still thinks he should sit in your lap. When you're pinned against the wall by a dog almost as tall and nearly as heavy as you, and he's lovingly licking your face, it can be quite an experience.. Anyway, he is a yard dog who doesn't leave our premesis without being leashed, and he has killed 6 cats that have wandered into our yard. While I am not proud of this, it just goes to show the risks that outdoor cats are exposed to. Down where I work, coyotes take a huge number of cats, many of which are dumped off and go feral. But it almost never fails to go for a week without a call from a nearby neighbor who's wondering what happened to their cat. The Great-horned Owls are also pretty fierce cat hunters (ask my Aunt Pat - I can just hear the poor cats at her local animal shelter when they see her coming, repeatedly - "OH NO, it's Mrs. Walton - the lady who feeds the owls!). Sorry, that last sentence was pretty facetious. But my point is that if your cat goes outside to excercise it's role in the food chain, it can just has easily have the role of prey exercised upon it! Most NM forest fires are contained or nearly so. Lots of homes were lost in Los Alamos and the satellite communities of Ruidoso, and three fatalities have occured (none in Los Alamos, the largest and most severe of the fires). Now our politicians are posturing like mad, even calling for Bruce Babbit's resignation for his support of prescribed burning. But somebody mentioned the other day that Pete Domenici should also resign for his coziness to the livestock industry, who's overgrazing over much of the last century created the overgrown forests in the first place. Ahhhh, politics in an election year. Anyway, blame is flying around like mad and I don't know if any rationality will ever be applied. What am I thinking, of course it won't. Meanwhile, there are lots of standing snags ready to be occupied by all kinds of cavity nesters, so nature will start the healing process and let us catch up at some point. And at some point, perhaps all these politicians, ranchers, environmentalists, loggers, right-wingers, left-wingers, feathered-wingers, etc, etc, will come to realize that forests can't be managed like Iowa cornfields and that we might legislate no more prescribed burns, but Nature has always enjoyed making fools out of those types of policies. Good ol' hubris. PS, Bubba is also quite the bird killer. We uncovered a "mass grave" the other day of 17 little birds, which all look like HOSP, and 1 huge pigeon. He sticks his head in the pyracantha bush and waits, like a crocodile, until the HOSPS get too busy to notice this big, toothy face, and then POW! Again, I'm not proud of his predatory tendancies, so I deliberatly attract only hummingbirds to my yard, which, so far, are too alert and fast for him to nab, although he loves to chase them (this sounds weird, but they seem to enjoy the game too, especially those feisty little Rufous). The bird bath is in the front yard, so the Mourning and White-winged doves can drink in peace. Otherwise, it's just HOSP and Starlings, which I can honestly say I don't mind him killing. Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 13:14:36 -0400 To: Rob Yaksich, et al, Rob mentioned some forces that are at work to control our domestic/stray/feral cat population. One he did not mention is the Fisher, which is doing quite well up our way these days. It was trapped practically to extinction years ago for its valuable fur, but has since been re-introduced in several northeastern states, and once again it's legal to trap them. Fishers eat up many cats per annum, and since they're largely nocturnal, their activities are rarely seen by the likes of us. They were re-introduced primarily to control the ballooning porcupine population, and it has worked well. I haven't see a porcupine in years. But they'll eat just about anything they can catch, and they move like greased lightning. The fastest cat in America would be no match for a Fisher. (Their method of killing a porcupine would be difficult to describe without using language which some of our Listers might find intolerable.) The Fisher, by the way, almost never eats fish. Bruce Burdett, NH Bluebird Conspiracy, Sunapee NH Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 23:29:55 -0500 The comment about coyotes eating house cats is right on the money, and in spite of all of the trapping and poisoning of coyotes these past many years they have spread all across the US and into Canada. I grew up in New England (New Hampshire, Connecticut, and Mazzzchusetts, and also spent summers in Vermont) and the farmers often paid me to shoot groundhogs as their secret den entrances were a hazard to livestock, and their dirt mounds in hayfields would break the hay mowing arms on tractors. In several recent trips through New England I did not see one ground hog. They are out early in the AM and this is when the coyotes get them, and it also is when many people let their cats out. When I lived in the Los Angeles area some years ago people were losing cats to coyotes in the suburbs of many towns. Bluebird Bob, Northeast Oklahoma. Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 11:42:58 -0700 After five nights of trying, I finally captured the stray cat that has been lurking about here. It had destroyed a nest of House Finches in my nieghbour's yard and been roaming around here for about a week. Mama Blue's eggs haven't hatched yet, but should any time now. And now, they will be entering a safer world. Nicholas Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 21:09:14 -0500 I rather new to bluebirding but we immediately received a family, now with 4 babies. The trouble is we also have a cat who is extremely interested in the nest. Now, next year I'll know better and put my nest on a pole or something but until then has anyone heard of a device to help deter such predators? I constructed my own, crude as it is, which is working. Tom Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 10:55:22 -0400 ... Without a predator guard, that house is likely to be a coffin for any birds that use it. Both raccoons and cats can climb wooden poles without any problem, as can snakes. Also, raccoons like to walk along the top of a wooden fence. I've read of trails which were set up on fences, and became raccoon smorgasbord. A separate post would be much better away from the fence, and an iron pipe with predator guard best of all. Despite everything I have done here, I've lost one of each bluebird pair to predators, one last year and one this year. So you can't make it foolproof. But you can cut the odds. No take on that house just yet. I wanted to know if the bb prefer to have their nest box on an isolated pole or flat against Prevailing wind direction should not be directly into the box. Here that means that I face them S & SE or SW. In really hot country like Texas and California, they have to think shade, though the books say keep away from the trees. Is it too late for Mr. and Mrs. bluebirds to nest in my box this year? I think you still have a good chance. I have a lot of Carolina Wrens in my backyard. Are they harmful to bb I don't know from experience, but many posts have indicated that Carolina Wrens are different in behavior from house wrens. Randy Jones Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 20:44:30 -0500 Phil - are you sure that the predator is not a snake vs a raccoon? A raccoon will usually drag out part of the nest, and if one does catch a bird on the nest (which is unlikely as the female will usually fly out when the nest pole is shaken by a large climbing predator) it would also go back for eggs or young. Here when eggs or young are missing and the nest is undisturbed you can just about bet money that it is the work of a snake. Bluebird Bob, Northeast Oklahoma. PS - have you seen any hawks around? I lose an occasional parent to them, and with their ground feeding habits cats get them too. Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 09:01:04 -0400 Hello Haleya & All: Your report proves the effectiveness of close monitoring. One would have to be there to fully understand the necessity of quick, common sense decisions. I would have done exactly what you did and hope for the best as both parents were there on the job. I would guess that a cat or squirrel was the culprit. A raccoon would have
cleaned out the nest of babies. At 15 days, the nestlings softly "churr-churr"
to one another at nite and that alone attracts predators. Betty Nichols, Middletown, MD Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:52:52 -0400 To Stan and All: Like you (Stan) we didn't put up a predator guard before the bluebirds started nesting. Now we are scrambling to assemble one of the cone-type guards. We haven't seen any racoons in years, but I'm sure they are still out there. When we first put our strawberry patch in five years ago, the racoons ate our
whole first harvest. Then we got the bright idea to put PINWHEELS in the patch
and we've never had a racoon bother it again. We bought the heavy-duty garden
variety, not children's toys. We are now trying our pinwheel protection from
racoon theory out at the base of our bluebird box. It certainly can't hurt. Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 07:20:03 EDT well, in addition to a racoon killing two adult females, three fledglings, and leaving nine eggs motherless, "my" racoon has just eaten eight Mallard eggs. just reached under momma and pulled them out. there are holes in all of them, and they are empty. this poor mallard was on her second clutch of the year. the first clutch successfully hatched eight beautiful babies, which were eaten within days by turtles on our pond. Ain't life grand dealing with "Mother Nature?" Phil Berry Problems and Solutions with Cats, Raccoons (& other four legged creatures) and Nestboxes (Part 2) |
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