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Nestbox Mounting (Part 2)In addition to Messages that have appeared in the Bluebird Mailing Lists on this topic, the following are on the Audubon Society of Omaha website:
From: "Phil Kenny" PhilKenny"at"cox.rr.com What's the best way to put up the pole for my nest boxes? I'm planning on
using 1/2 inch emt. Can I easily pound that into the ground with a sledge hammer
and someone to help hold the pole? or should I use rebar and slide the emt over
the rebar? My first thought was to just hammer it into the ground, but now I'm
wondering if the emt is too light weight and would get too bent up or crumpled
over. Thanks in advance! Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 13:59:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Comments on setting poles From: Maynard R Sumner m-r-sumner"at"juno.com Phil, I use the 1/2 inch emt and put it on a rebar. This has work good me. I have a lot of deer around my boxes and the deer will push the pole over. So some time I use a bigger pole. So far it is only one box the deer go to all the time. Maynard Sumner From: BBBMV"at"aol.com Dear Phil, I don't know about the emt never having used it in any thickness. But when it comes to pounding a post into the ground nothing beats a "pole pounder". It is a heavy steel pipe closed at one end and has handles welded to the sides. It is about 30 inches long. The open end is slipped over the pole to be pounded and the whole thing is raised upright. Then by raising the pounder and bringing it down on the top of the pole the pole is pounded into the ground safely and quickly, and often the second person in not needed. These pounders are available at most farm implement and supply stores and
they save a lot of work. Price of the last one I bought is about $20.00. From: "Fawzi P. Emad femad <at> fpemad <dot> com A 1/2" EMT is rather weak for pounding unless the ground is soft, like in early spring and when it is still wet. Once it becomes dry, only the larger sizes can be pounded. I agree with Bill, nothing beats a pole driver for this purpose. If you are using rebar, it is OK to pound the rebar into the ground, then slip the EMT around it, pound it a bit further. But, if you want you can also hold it up on the rebar (thus the height becomes adjustable) if you use a 1/2" EMT coupling. You may have to change one of the two screws on the coupling (make it longer so it reaches the rebar.) This method of mounting nestboxes is OK for very light boxes and was developed by Steve Gilbertson for mounting his light PVC boxes and the Gilwood boxes. Please do not hesitate to ask me if what I said is not clear, many times I think it is clear, but it is not! Fawzi Fawzi Emad in Laytonsville, Maryland. From: "Jacque Turner" turner"at"texasisp.com The poles we ended up doing are made out of electrical conduit. The pole that goes into the ground is 3/4" conduit and 60" in length. He welded a flat rectangular piece (about 2"x5") 15-17" up the pole. This was to keep the pole from spinning once it was in the ground. The pole that has the birdhouse attached to it is done with 1" conduit. He put a conduit collar at the bottom - one part attaching to the top pole and the bottom hole of the collar is where we use a brass screw screwed in to keep the birdhouse at whatever height and direction I want. He put the brass screw in and bent it so I could turn it better. I've had a couple of brass screws break, and am still searching for a better alternative here, but for the most part works great. I carry pliers to get a tight secure hold. Of course you do not get 10 ft. from entrance hole to the ground, but you do get about 8', I'd say. My father-in-law was concerned about the stability the longer the pole got and whether I could handle the thing by myself. Besides the house, we went ahead and put PVC baffles on the top pole also, so weight was a definite consideration. Now this whole blue birding thing is all very new to me, and we might find flaws in this system, but so far I just love it. Here is why: 1. I can adjust the house to the level I want and when it is lowered down, it is just the right height for me to monitor. 2. I can easily adjust the direction the house is facing. 3. If I have to work on a house, I just take the top pole off the bottom one, and carry the house to the workshop. 4. I can handle it on my own, without help. And 5. is something I've considered but haven't put it past the experts. If a bird picks a particular house in the early spring, one with which has been placed close to shade trees, but still somewhat out in the open, (remember I have some serious heat in the summer here in Texas), do you think these same birds would abandon the box if I moved the whole house 6' or so back - even closer to and more under the shade - when the summer months were upon us? It would be very easy to place a second mount (bottom pole) for just this purpose. Getting the bottom pole into the ground was something I could not do by myself. Tried it one day with the big 'ole sledge hammer and some farm implement part piece which was just the right size and length with which we are using to make the hole, and felt like I knocked some of my brain loose!!!!! My husband has put up the rest of the bottom poles, thank goodness. As of today, I have 18 of 21 houses up and running. Late this afternoon I stopped the four wheeler right next to a house to work on it. I was sitting there looking at what a perfect place it was for a bluebird house. I heard an unfamiliar bird behind me, moved away from the house and there he was. Mr. Bluebird just singing his little heart out! I have never heard this beautiful warble before, but after that, bluebirds were at the next two houses I attended. Not on the house, but on an electrical line above or bare tree limb nearby, just singing away. It was a good day. Hope you can make sense of my description of the poles and hope it helps. Jacque Turner From: "paul kilduff" plkldf"at"hotmail.com Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 2:36 PM Subject: telescoping pole You wrote: From: "Karen Harder" karenh"at"praxisworks.org I was checking my nestboxes yesterday to make sure they're ready for the season and realized that the way things stand at this point the PVC pipe can rattle quite obnoxiously against the smaller conduit if the wind is strong enough. It's the top end of the PVC that hits the conduit, so it's just a fraction of an inch below the bottom of the boxes. Wouldn't this be annoying, at least, to the birds inside the box? I could, of course, just stuff something into the top of the pipe to keep it from being so loose, but on the other hand, the looseness is part of the predator deterent, isn't it? Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Thanks so much for your ideas. Karen -- Cape Porpoise, Maine From: "Dan McCue" dmccue"at"usit.net Karen, et al --- The PVC pipe just under the box will move about in the wind
but unless it is really blowing hard, it won't make much noise and my Blues
haven't abandon any nest on the pipes that I have them on. We get some pretty
stiff winds here in West Tennessee. Good luck & God bless, Dan McCue in Camden,
TN. 75 miles due west of Nashville on the Tennessee River in West TN. Member of
NABS, TN Audabon Society. President of Benton County Bluebird Society of TN,
Inc.,1st V.P Tennessee Bluebird Trails, Inc. From: "Mary Beth Roen" mbroen"at"hotmail.com Karen, Mary Roen, River Falls, WI
Karen: Yes, I think the noise and rattling could be a problem, and, NO I look after lots of nest boxes that use PVC pipe on the poles, that Bill Becraft, Manager of Audubon Society of Central MD Sanctuaries From: "Karen Harder" karenh"at"praxisworks.org Many thanks to all of you who responded to my question about PVC pipe rattling against conduit, bothering the nestbox inhabitants. William Becraft, you were the only one who agreed that this might be a problem. Perhaps we'll never really know for sure whether the birds are bothered or not, but to my thinking it's enough of a possibility that I plan to stuff the tops with stiff netting, as you suggested. We have the great good fortune here to not have snakes or raccoons, or any other predators from the ground, bothering nestboxes, so we added the PVC simply as insurance that it stay that way, rather than in reaction to any actual problems. And thanks, too, for the suggestion of lightly sanding the PVC. I never would have thought of the possibility of pitting or oxidizing. My Bluebirds still seem interested in the boxes only as hunting perches, not as homes yet, and I'm glad because we will undoubtedly still get some very cold and nasty weather. Karen -- Cape Porpoise, Maine From: "KimMarie Markel" auroramn"at"duranetweb.com Question for the experts on this list: After reading the Bluebird Monitors Guide twice, we've noticed that a lot of people are using electrical conduit for mounting poles. We are in an area that experiences a lot of electrical storms (with lightening damage to trees, property, etc.) in the spring and summer months. Has anyone experienced damage to nestboxes mounted to metal poles and if so what solutions and/or advice do you have to help minimize trauma to boxes? I confess that I don't know much about how lightening travels and finds a path to ground, but it is a concern of someone I know who has mounted boxes using conduit and has a background in electrical engineering. kimmarie :) *** please note new email address*** From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com KimMarie, et al, I have never had any lightning strikes, and I'd guess that my pipes are AT LEAST as attractive to lightning as any electrical conduit, most of which is made of an alloy. So....based on my own experience, I'd say that lightning need not be a concern. Bruce Burdett, SW NH From: "Michael Wheatley" sialia"at"cyberdude.com Bruce & Others: Lightening originates from the ground and strikes up. What we see and hear is the return strike. A steel cased well head sticking 12" out of the ground, is a many times over ,greater threat than a 50' TV tower. A steel post for the purpose of a nest box has about as much chance of a lightening strike as you or I. My larger concern over the steel posts is the heat sink properties. An exposed bolt inside the nest box can "suck" the heat out of the hatchlings very quickly during colder weather (hypothermia). Because of this, I attach a 1 x 4 or 2 x 4 length on the nest box and use that to attach to the pole, affixing it outside of the box. Just sumpin'. -- Mike in NW OH From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com Michael W., et al, Thanks for making the point about the 'heat sink' properties of interior bolts. I'd guess it is partly for this reason that the NABS-style plans I use have the back-board which extends 3" or so above and below the box, so that the pole-attachment bolts are always completely OUTSIDE the nesting enclosure. In addition, these long back-boards also make it easier to attach the box to the pole, since everything is out in the open and there's plenty of room to turn your wrench-handle. Thanks, too, for your reassuring words about the unlikelihood of lightning strikes on metal poles. In my years of bluebirding, I have never heard a single report of a lightning incident. Golfers, on the other hand, are often struck, including short golfers. Bruce Burdett, SW NH P.S. Also, my grandmother's warnings to the contrary, I have never heard of a bat's becoming entangled in anyone's hair, or of anyone's getting warts from handling toads. From: TomGaryH"at"aol.com I've been doing essentially the same thing and I refer to this extra piece of wood as an "isolator" or "insulator." In my case I was concerned about blistering heat being transfered into the box. I screw the insulator onto the back of the box and attach pipe hangers to the insulator. However, I would want a more economical way to mount a box if I had a large trail. Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:25:34 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA We are trying to mount some kestrel boxes and need help with telescoping poles. My husband can't figure out Bruce Johnson's telescoping poles (can't find his email address) so perhaps he can re-describe AND can others send info on how they make theirs? I've done my homework and can't find info on Jim's site, etc so I NEED HELP - thanks so much! :-) H Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:38:43 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA Thanks for bearing with me here. I am in new turf with kestrels! Questions: 1) Since I'll have to use a thicker pole because of a weightier box, would it
be best to skip the telescoping pole and just haul a step ladder around to
monitor. THANKS in advance, H :-) From: "Pat" lphunter"at"skyenet.net Haleya, I know nothing about the weight of a Kestrel box... but will relay to you and others what we are going to do reference telescoping poles for our bluebird box. We are using a piece of conduit with a coupler on the bottom of the conduit which we slip over rebar. The conduit is then raise and the screws in the coupler are tightened on to the rebar. Hope this makes sense. If you need heavier pipe would there be a way of using the top rail of chain length fencing and getting screws into it that would bite into a piece of lead or black pipe? Just a thought!!! Pat from San Pierre, IN NW corner ,.. From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas If you want a lighter pole the 3/4" normally slips inside the 1". By packing rocks around the pipe set in the ground and also by setting this pipe on TOP of a rock or brick it will keep them from sinking with a heavy box. You can set the bottom pole in a gallon milk jug or can filled with fresh cement then carry the pipe, and cement block to the site AFTER the cement hardens. Brace the pole plumb while the cement is setting. By planting this block of cement in the ground it is nearly impossible for the average person to "steal" this set up! We placed kestrel boxes in the city limits, mounted to telephone poles with some success. By choosing poles where you can back up your truck you can check off of the tailgate (about 8 feet high) or side wall of the truck (about 10 feet high) or if you have a headache rack then building a walk board on top you can check boxes mounted quite high without a ladder. We have a front bucket mounted to our tractor and I can check boxes mounted 15 feet off of the ground with it. Conduit pipe starts to get a little light for mounting heavy nestboxes. For these larger boxes the rebar maybe a little too light and the boxes will sway too much. Some of the states have allowed the kestrel boxes to be mounted behind road signs as these are about 10 feet off of the ground. KK Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 19:58:06 -0700 (PDT) Snip Hello all - I use 3/4" EMT conduit pipe for the bottom section. The top section is 1/2" EMT and telescopes nicely into the bottom section. There are several methods of using fittings to accomplish the telescoping. The one I prefer is labeled "Combination Coupling." EMT/Flex. 1/2" 1/2" The part # on my couplings is EFC-75 49280 This coupling is designed to convert 1/2" steel conduit to 1/2" flexible metal conduit. It just so happens that the couple accomodates the 1/2" and 3/4" beautifully for the telescoping feature. There is only one thing that needs to be done to make this feature work. There is a shoulder in the coupling that needs to be drilled or filed out so the 1/2" section can telescope down through the coupling. If there are still questions concerning this coupling, let me know and I can upload a photo or drawing to my website. Bruce J From: "College Town" collegetown"at"I-55.com I am going to Lowes after work and I am going to purchase a board to mount an additional house. Would a 2 x 4 x 8 be a good size? I was estimating 2 -3 feet would need to go into the ground to make the board secure. I was going to get a piece of pine treated board and stain it. Does this sound okay? Kim From: "Mary Beth Roen" mbroen"at"hotmail.com Kim, I would recommend a pole to mount the nest box on, instead of a wooden post. Predators find it quite easy to climb wooden posts. I have mine mounted on 1/2 inch rebar pounded into the ground about 2 feet, with electrical conduit over the rebar held on by a connector screwed to the rebar. I also have stovepipe or pvc pipe baffles on all of my poles. Mary Roen, River Falls, WI From: "BONNIE A. YEAGER" dement"at"frognet.net Kim, Alternatively, you could buy a metal 6 and 1/2 foot "T" post (~cost $3.00) and drive it into the ground with a sledge hammer or post driver. I use eight foot ground rods to mount my nest boxes and drive them about 2-3 ft. into the ground using a post driver or sledge hammer. The ground rod is more expensive, ~ cost $8.00, but they are, I think, a lot easier to drive into the ground than "T" posts, and "T" posts are a lot less work than sinking a wooden post. The salt treated, "T" posts, and ground rods should last you a long, long time; however, wood will eventually rot away in the ground (about 20 years) whereas the metal posts should last you a life time. I hope my post isn't too confusing. I don't know how you plan to mount your nest box. The metal posts will present unique mounting problems as compared to a wood mounting post. Fred Yeager, From: "Fawzi P. Emad femad <at> fpemad <dot> com If you go to Lowes, I suggest 3/4" EMT conduit (in the electrical department.) They come in 10 ft sections. Have them cut off 2' leaving an 8' for the post. Cost is about $2. This can be sunk into the ground using a post driver (a 16 pound steel tube with handles to drive posts into the ground quickly.) You'll need to drill one hole on top to take the nestbox. At the bottom of the nestbox tie it to the post using a twisted wire. If you need more details (including pictures to make it very clear) please let me know. I would not recommend wood, even the pressure treated due to susceptibility to predators from the ground and difficulty in sinking into the ground. Even using the EMT, I recommend using a stove pipe predator guard. Fawzi Fawzi Emad in Laytonsville, Maryland From: "Doug Rohde" d.rohde"at"attbi.com Kim, I use 3/4" electrical conduit and use conduit clamps and wood screws to attach the nestbox. The slick counduit makes it harder on predators. It comes in 10' sections, which I cut down to 8'. The whole assembly costs about $2.25 and it's easy to add a predator guard if needed. Doug From: "Stan, Apple Valley/St. Paul, MN [44.44N, -93.10W]"
stan1bb"at"frontiernet.net Hi: There are numerous methods of mounting nestboxes, and I will NOT deny the advantages of any arrangement that suits your situation. For the metal posts, there's nothing that beats the good ole "post driver." Slip the post driver over the top of the post, mark the bottom of post how far you want to "sink" it; stand the post up, raise post driver and drop it--pulling down some to give it that extra "nudge" into the ground. For mounting your nestbox, drill two holes in back of box through which you may fasten box to the post with a bolt, washer, and nut (or two nuts, for "extra" holding power). A "stove pipe" baffle (though not as aesthetic as others) seems to work, depending upon your predators. For details of affixing a stove pipe baffle, check the BLUEBIRD REFERENCE GUIDE, for Ron Kingston's plan: http://audubon-omaha.org/bbbox/nabs/rk1.htm Happy birding! Stan From: "paul kilduff" plkldf"at"hotmail.com Paul Kilduff, Baltimore MD I have been using a mounting method based loosely on Gary Springer's mounting method for his Chalets: in my case, I use 3/4" EMT (conduit) telescoping into 1" EMT base (thanks to Fawzi for the telescoping pole design, I don't have the URL handy right now). I screw a setscrew connector (I find it easier to use than the compression fitting) into a hole in 5/4" thick wood (the 3/4" fitting screws really firmly into a Forstner-bit-drilled 1" hole; 1" fitting goes into 1-1/4" hole). It's then easy to attach the setscrew connector to the top of the EMT. It's a quick and easy way to mount the box on the pole. However, the drawback is that the connector wants to make its way out of the wood after a while. I've gotten a drill press to replace my Black and Decker Drill Guide (!) and now feel that I can make very precise holes. I've tried different adhesives to solidify the fitting into the wood, but now I want to do a strength test using different adhesives. I've got waterproof wood glue, a couple of plumber's expoxies, Seal All, ALex, etc. Any recommendations for an adhesive that I haven't mentioned which might firmly hold the fitting in the wood indefinitely, so I can include *that* in my test as well? OR-- does anyone know of another way to attach EMT to the bottom of a box, such as a plumbing fitting that I haven't seen yet, etc.? Thanks in advance for any ideas, I'll advise results.... best, Paul in Baltimore From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net Hi Paul, I don't know what you're trying to gain by not using the emt compression fitting set into the bottom of the box. This method works equally well for one inch emt fittings(inch and a quarter hole in bottom of box) and three quarter inch fittings(one inch hole bottom of box). The strength of the connection of the pole to the nest box will be stronger if you stay with the one inch emt pole. The smaller the fitting, the weaker the mount. Not only will the box be more secure on the pole but a one inch emt pole is more than twice as strong as three quarter inch emt. There's no comparison. In my opinion, three quarter inch emt is too flimsy for nest box mounting. I've used both three quarter inch and one inch emt poles as described above but I believe the one inch emt telescoped over half inch galvanized steel pipe and resting on top of a hose clamp is as simple and as durable as it gets. It's always best to telescope the larger diameter pole over the smaller to keep water out of the inside of the bottom pole. Even during months of draught the bottom pole of larger diameter will be full of water. This will take a toll on life of the bottom pole, especially if you're using emt instead of galvanized iron or steel pipe. As for glues, I use "Liquid Nails for Heavy Duty Construction Projects" to glue the compression connector into the bottom of the box. There are lots of varieties of Liquid Nails, many which won't hold up. So make sure to use the one noted. And, position the connector under the center of gravity, not the center of the bottom of the box. And, I also work the glue into the wood and the threads of the fitting with a stick before inserting the fitting. This works! If you decide to use an epoxy, make sure to use one that has a binder in it. Epoxy resin gets extremely hard but it is not all that strong if there is no strong fibrous, crystalline or other similar material mixed into it. If I went the epoxy rout, I'd use PC-7 an epoxy with the binder. With PC-7 you will find that you can glue metal to glass and never break them apart without destroying either the metal or glass. Even though PC-7 is an amazing glue everyone should have around to permanently fix things, I believe "Liquid Nails for Heavy Duty Construction Purposes" is superior for this job because it is somewhat flexible, a characteristic that is important when bonding with wood that will be subject to changes in weather. One final thing. If the nest box is properly constructed the bottom of the box will NEVER become wet. This guarantees the connection with the emt fitting on the bottom of the box will remain strong. If your nest box bottom is getting wet, use a better box design before relying on this mounting system. Make sure the sides of the box go down past the bottom of the box. In other words, recess the bottom of the box. This will prevent rain from being blown onto the bottom of the box and cause water that runs down the side of the box to run past the bottom and drip onto the ground. Hope this helps. Gary Springer From: "Gary Springer" springer"at"alltel.net If you've had a little difficulty understanding the nest box mounting method described in my last post and want to see a picture, go to the following web page and scroll to the bottom. http://www.realbirdhomes.com/Springer%20Chalet%20Plans.htm Gary Springer From: "Fawzi P. Emad femad <at> fpemad <dot> com Hello Paul, Gary and all. I think Gary's idea of reversing the telescoping poles (larger one going up) is OK as long as you use galvanized 1/2" pipe (very expensive) for the bottom pole. As to the 3/4" EMT conduit, it is quite adequate for normal NABS style boxes, not as flimsy as Gary thinks. Here in Montgomery County it is the standard mount, thousands have been put up, and they stood well for years. At home I use T-fence posts with the stove pipe guard. In the park I use the 3/4" EMT posts, like the rest of the parks in Montgomery County. Rather than mounting the box at the bottom using glue, it is common and practical to mount it at its back. I'll be sending a picture to Paul showing how I normally do this. There is no argument that a 1" EMT is stronger than a 3/4" EMT, but evidence shows the extra strength is not needed for small light boxes, let alone the extra cost for a long trail. If you must glue metal to wood, there is a new glue I have been using. It is Elmer's Probond, a polyurethane glue "Waterproof, bonds virtually everything, super strong" as the label says. I use it to glue my boxes together. It is really excellent, waterproof and very strong, but I use it for "wood on wood." Sometimes the glue goes into screw holes, and it becomes really difficult to unscrew the screws, so I know it bonds metal to wood as well. Fawzi Fawzi Emad in Laytonsville, Maryland From: Bluburder"at"aol.com If anyone sees faults in my method of mounting boxes let me know I use 2" diameter PVC heavy pipe. 10 foot length less than $4. I mount the box near the end of half a length of pipe. Split a 3 or 4 foot length of pressure treated 2 by 4, cut off the corners of the 2 by 2 so it fits into the 2 inch PVC, point one end so that it drives into the ground easily and round off the other end so that it doesn't split when I drive it. I can install a bluebird house in minutes only needing to carry the house on the PVC pipe, the stake which can be slid into the pipe, and a sledge hammer to drive the stake. If you want the house higher just put a nail or screw in the stake so the PVC doesn't slide down to the ground. I have had no problem with predators except HOSP and wrens. At the present time I have 3 boxes with Bluebird eggs and one with 4 youngsters 13 days old. Bill; Central PA Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 16:12:51 -0500 (Central Daylight Time) Gary wrote: From: "paul kilduff" plkldf"at"hotmail.comt Reply to Gary AND Fawzi --- Gary Springer WROTE: Hi Paul, Just to clarify, the set screw connector has the same male end as the compression fitting. I just think tightening a set screw is a lot easier than trying to tighten that bloody collar and nut -- it slides to the bottom of the pole, it's hard to get the thread started... -- also, in case any of our monitors have to remove the box, they definitely have a phillips screwdriver, but may not have a large pliers.
I believe this -- Also, your arguments about putting larger pole on top seem to hold water (eh hem!) - thanks :o) As for glues, I use "Liquid Nails for Heavy Duty Construction Projects" That must include the L N that I used, 'cause it didn't hold up worth a darn! Also it turned solid a couple days after I used it. Shall look for LNHDC, and include in my experiment. ...position the connector under the center of gravity, not Absolutely! This is one of the reasons I like this mount: others: it gives me extra height for a given length of EMT, and it's easy to install without draining battery of my cordless drill -- and it's quick. I think I really became sold on the bottom mount when I had numerous boxes to mount and it was right before opening day and it was getting dark -- man! it was like, what just happened? The thing went up instantly! Instead of drilling through two sides of EMT plus the back of the box, *twice*, I just stuck it on there and tightened it up!! Also appreciate advice about working in with stick and different kinds of epoxy. I've tried PC7, but it's never worked for me, and I always end up with a *tiny* bit of mixed adhesive which sticks to everything except the project! Must be the user! That's why I thought I'd try this plumbers' stuff, because you twist it off and knead it to mix. sigh I don't think I'm up to PC7 again! One final thing. If the nest box is properly constructed the bottom of Wetness hasn't been a problem, but still the fitting becomes loose and precarious. Now that I have a drill press my results may be better. Thank you, Gary. Fawzi Emad WROTE: Rather than mounting the box at the bottom using glue, it is common and Thanks for the pic! I definitely use this method, which I got from your
telescoping pole URL. As above, I get a bit more height out of the bottom mount,
which is also good for my out-of-scrap mealworm feeders, which I don't know how
I'd mount from the side. If you must glue metal to wood, there is a new glue I have been using. Sounds good, I'll try it in my test. thank you Fawzi, Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 01:06:02 -0700 (PDT) Bill, How do you attach the PVC to the nestbox? How do you keep the PVC/nestbox
from rotating? Dan From: beabud"at"comcast.net Is there a rule of thumb for mounting bluebird houses ?? I live here in the
east and have left the houses up for roosting. What i decided to do was take two
Metal "Corner braces" and mount the box so its slightly away from the wooden
pole its on , 1/2 inch or so. I can rotate the direction of the box and it will
get air all the way around with no snow piling up behind it. Question being i
guess, do the EABL prefer boxes screwed up close on pole or doesn't it make a
difference??? This way i can rotate it towards the sun more in winter and move
it around for less sun in the summer rather than remove whole system. From: "david calhoun" dlcdmd"at"bellsouth.net I got my boxes off of fence posts , for safety from predators, and put them on 2" pvc posts(used pvc because is cheaper than iron.) question- the pvc posts sway a tiny bit more than my irom posts-is this bad ? Is pvc bad and should I switch to iron? Thanks,David Calhoun,Louisville,Ky. Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 14:11:48 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA MORE RAIN AND COLD :-( From: PTom, ptom"at"austin.rr.com Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 10:22 AM Subject: 10 foot stick of EMT conduit; any reason to trim down? Are there any reasons to cut a 10-foot stick of EMT conduit for a nestbox mounted (with EMT brackets) at 6-foot (eye level) ... other than "it looks weird with the pole sticking up" and "it's easier to transport 6-foot piece than to transport a 10-foot stick of EMT conduit"? When I've used a 10-foot stick of EMT conduit and mounted a nestbox on it at 6 foot, the birds use the tip of the conduit as a perch. Thanks! From: Larry A Broadbent, rockets"at"mnsi.net Pauline, I don't see a problem with using the hole 10-foot piece of EMT conduit,
provided your nestbox roof is flush with the back, allowing the EMT pole to
extent above the roof line. Yes, the bluebirds will use the top of a tall pole
like this as a hunting / perching spot. Most of my Bluebird nestboxes have the roof extending beyond the back of the box. Thus, I can not have my pole extend past the top of the roofs. I use mostly 1 1/4" galvanized fence posts ( come in 10' lengths, which
I usually cut to 7 1/2 to 8' lengths. I use axel grease on my poles to keep
predators away. Gary Springer from GA has had terrific success with higher mounted nestboxes both for Bluebirds and other cavity nesting birds, including Red Headed Woodpeckers. Regards, From: Haleya Priest, mablue"at"gis.net From: Maynard R Sumner, m-r-sumner"at"juno.com Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 2:15 PM Subject: Re: 10 foot stick of EMT conduit; any reason to trim down? Pauline, Put some thing on the end so the bird will not cut its feet. Maynard Sumner From: Bruce Burdett, blueburd"at"tds.net From: Don Skinner, deskinner"at"kc.rr.com I've read in some posts and other literature that bluebirds ought to have a post near their house on which to perch to scan for insects. There are no posts near my three houses. How close should such a post be? Will not they simply sit on top of the house? And do they also scan from small trees? .... Don Skinner, Leawood, KS From: Haleya Priest, mablue"at"gis.net To answer your perch question. It isn't absolutely necessary to put up a perch post because you've got one already - it is called the bluebird box! If you want to add additional posts (and I do in my yard) I just plant tomato stakes every 20-30 ft or so. Telephone wires are my BBs favorite perches. I have a friend who mounts his boxes 6 ft (he is at least 6') up on 10' electric conduits - that way the EABLs have an even higher perch than the house. :-) H From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 7:30 AM Subject: RE: Building as fast as we can We have been using the metal "t" posts for the nestboxes. My husband has a grinder and he zaps the little knobs off to make it smooth where the nestbox can fit flat to it. However, some are not done that way and they have no problem staying secure. We use clamps to secure the nestbox to the post. The "t" posts cost $2.25 where I am and when you are doing a lot of them, it can be a nice little savings. I think they look good too because they are dark green. Also, my husband makes a cross or "t" slit in the center of the
hardware cloth and I think it fits easier and more snug than fitting the round
pole. We recently took 12 complete units to the Jimmie Davis State Park in Jonesboro, LA and they were made with the "t" post poles. LBBS added to their existing 6 nestboxes. Good job, Yvonne!! I hope to get to visit your place and maybe see some P/W's along with other cavity nesters! I have never seen a Prothonotary Warbler for real. Evelyn Cooper From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net] Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 8:56 AM Subject: Steel for nestbox poles Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas OK 1/2" inside diameter galvanized water pipe is almost as strong as thin wall 1" diameter electrical conduit. Electrical conduit is seldom re-used on a job and office demolition normally has the contractors hauling this off to the dumpsters or selling large amounts to your local scrap iron dealers. Once again if you make nestboxes take some nice looking nestboxes with you when you go to scrap yards and very often you can trade a nestbox for used pipe and conduit. Top rails for chain link fences are 1&3/8" diameter and 21 feet long. Trees, kids and cars are always bending this type fence pipe and once again fence contractors end up with a lot of this slightly bent pipe they cut to 10 foot lengths to haul off from the job site. Fence contractors often have short pieces of cedar boards that is scrap to them. They also often have the 5"X5" white PVC square fencing material that is easily converted into great looking nestboxes or bird feeders. Electrical supply, plumbing supply, and lumber supply wholesalers often have blemished or slightly bent pipe and conduit that they will sell steeply discounted if you ask. Don't be afraid to mention you are working to increase the population of the bluebirds in your/their area. The funny thing about this "bluebird hobby" is how many people get excited when they hear what you are doing. What I like to hear is the large number of people that call telling what all they find using their "bluebird" or "owl" nestboxes. We end up helping the birds, bats, tree frogs and very often different species of bees, wasps and even ear wigs:-)) I am often finding nestboxes right now with hundreds of the Asian ladybugs massed in old bluebirds nests. These beneficial ladybugs will eat 10 times their weight in aphids, and spider mites come April. They are great little bugs from Feb till early fall when they decide to come indoors....Kind of like black birds are great eating bugs all summer and then swarm your feeders during the cold winter months. Can you imagine a flock of 500 bluebirds swarming around your mealworm feeder every morning? What would the spouse say when you sold their car to pay for another shipment of mealworms for another month?? Steel Prices: Every month in the USA our people population is growing at almost 300,000. We all need steel for homes businesses and roads and bridges. In 2004 we averaged almost 1 million new homes constructed every month not counting steel buildings. Earth is averaging growing at 177,000 more people everyday and all of them want their own house and some building to work in when they grow up. KK From: John Schuster [mailto:wildwingco"at"earthlink.net] Dear Friends, We've been using 3/4" O.D. (Outside Diameter) EMT for years and we prefer it over 1" O.D. EMT. In our opinion, the 1" O.D. EMT is just to expensive and over kill for Bluebirds. I mean how much do you think a nest box full of baby Bluebirds weighs in at anyway? I can assure you, not enough to justify the added costs of using 1" O.D. EMT. We purchase 10 foot sticks of 3/4" O.D. EMT, then cut them in half (with a pipe cutter) to be mounted to our freestanding Meadowood Bluebird nesting boxes with Speed Mount System. We then sledgehammer the uncut end of the EMT flat to help ancore the pipe when driven 1 foot into the ground and so no dirt gets inside the pipe when driven home. We also drive these 5 foot 3/4" O.D. EMT pipes into the ground with a rubber lead filled impact hammer. Using a rubber impact hammer (you can also use a sledgehammer and a block of wood placed over the EMT instead of a expensive rubber impact hammer) eliminates burring to the EMT, so our Speed Mount System slips over the 3/4" O.D. EMT pipe effortlessly. Freestanding Meadowood Bluebird nest box hight (from the base of the entry hole to the ground) is 4.5 feet. This is high enough to keep mammals out (provided that you mount your nest boxes away from fences and trees where mammals can jump from) and low enough to initiate passive House Sparrow (aka HOSP, or Winged Killer) measures (if properly positioned away from buildings and bushes.) If a HOSP challenge does occur, we simple loosen up the Speed Mount System to remove the Meadowood Bluebird nest box in seconds, replace the nest box with one of our Gable Traps (a nice looking box trap based on the Huber Trap with a Speed Mount System), retighten down the Speed Mount System on the Gable Trap, trap the HOSP, dispose of the HOSP accordingly, and reinstall the Meadowood Bluebird nest box back on the EMT to start anew. We also cut 3/4" O.D. EMT pipes into 1 foot lengths, drill a 5/16" hole 6" down from the clean cut end of the pipe, to be bolted onto Highway Stakes or U-BARS with 1.5 inch Carriage Bolts in vineyards operations. Hight from the base of the entry hole to the ground is between 5 to 6 feet high. The best part about our Speed Mount System and the Gary Springer Quick Mount System on his Chalet nest boxes, is that you have a full 360 degrees to face your nest box in any desired direction. Years ago we faced our nest boxes South-East, until my pal Steven Simmons convinced me to face all nest boxes East. The reason Steven Simmons pointed out was, "the jet stream rarely blows directly East to West, plus the morning sun and evening full moon both rise in that general direction. By facing your nest boxes East you protect the front of the nest box from both wind and rain, plus the front of the nest box is illuminated be either the morning sun and evening full moon assisting cavity nesters to find the entrance to the nest box faster." All our nest boxes face East, and last year we broke our record for Barn Owls occupancy by getting Barn Owls into newly installed nesting boxes in less than 48 hours!!! To do this properly we recommend using a compass as we give every nest box
being installed a compass bearing before we secure it. Know your local declination
setting by logging onto The Compass Store at: http://www.thecompassstore.com/ From: Haleya Priest [ mailto:mablue"at"gis.net ] Why have conduit poles gone up in price so much? Have I missed something? :-) H ...I use 1/2" EMT poles. I say what John says - - why do we need bigger poles
for BB boxes? They hold my boxes up with no problem. If I use heavier boxes
than the normal 3/4" pine boxes then I do need a thicker pole. From: Haleya Priest [mailto:mablue"at"gis.net] Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 1:02 PM Subject: Re: Building as fast as we can I always found the problem with the T poles are that predators can climb up them so easily! Also, with the EMT poles, I buy EMT clamps and then I just slip those over the poles and screw them into the boxes. No wires, etc. :-) H From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 1:04 PM Subject: RE: Building as fast as we can Haleya, the predators can climb ANY poles down here. We have to put guards on ALL of them. You probably don't have snakes like we do and they can climb ANYTHING! :<( Evelyn From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 1:08 PM Subject: RE: Steel pipes for nestbox poles, nest box facing and compass bearing I face my nestboxes anywhere from northeast, east, southeast and south. It is according to the location of a tree or something that the birds can fly to and to be able to utilize the location. I have seen no difference in the fledging rate of any of these. I think many people forget the birds need something to fledge to. Now, where would they go if there is NOTHING they can fly too? Which brings a question to my mind. On page 49 of "The Bluebird Monitor's Guide", it shows rows of nestboxes on fences, but there are no trees in sight as it shows a distance across from the nestboxes. I am wondering if the fledglings can fly out of the nestbox onto the wire fence their nestbox is located on. Can they make a turn and land on the wire? We are thinking of turning some of the nestboxes toward the fence wire. Another question. If a Bluebird flies his strength of a little past 100 ft. Evelyn Cooper From: Haleya Priest [ mailto:mablue"at"gis.net ] You are right! So maybe it is up here the EMT poles are the way to go - no snakes really - but they keep other critters off. Here again, geographical differences make all the difference in the world! :-) H From: Bruce Burdett [ mailto:blueburd"at"tds.net ] BB-L, Is EMT made of plastic or some kind of metal? Is it like electrical conduit? Bruce Burdett
...I have never "pounded the poles into the ground." I can't even picture doing it. I just ream a deep hole in the ground with a crowbar and drop the pipe in. Then I tamp firmly around the pipe. All my houses are of 7/8" stock, not ¾" I don't believe that the direction they face is important, except, as Evelyn says, they should face a tree of some sort for their first flights. My lengths of galvanized steel plumbing pipe are 21' long, so I saw them up into three 7' lengths. I do the sawing with a "Sawzall" reciprocating electric saw. It makes short work of the pipes. The bolts I use are ¼" in diameter. For drilling the pipes, I use a titanium steel ¼" diameter bit. ( - the gold-color one) It goes through like butter. I put no houses on fence-posts, trees, buildings, so I have no knowledge of how that works. Bruce Burdett ... From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 2:06 PM Subject: RE: Building as fast as we can Yep. The t post has a little marker about 1 ft or so to show you how far to drive
it and that means you have the balance of the footage left above ground. From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 2:36 PM Subject: RE: Rising steel prices (was RE: Building as fast as we can Jim, since Haleya was the one that asked the question, I am replying to the whole List on your answer. Thanks, Evelyn From: Jim Greenway [mailto:mtnpathfinder"at"msn.com] Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 1:30 PM Subject: Rising steel prices (was RE: Building as fast as we can Specifically what has pushed up the steel prices is the explosive growth in
China's steel consumption. China recently became (last time I heard) the #2
world consumer of steel, concrete and petroleum. This was something of an "out
of nowhere development" and suppliers of steel haven't yet caught up. Jim Greenway From: Elizabeth Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net] A friend who lives in a very windy area is concerned about how much her nestboxes shake. She is visualizing eggs crashing into each other/getting addled, or birds avoiding the boxes. The baffles clang noisily against the pole. The boxes are on 3/4" pipe poles, 8' long stuck 2 feet in the ground. The boxes are 5' off the ground with the baffle about 2" under the boxes. The entrances holes all face east. I suggested braces that I saw at John Dickerson's nestcam webpage below: However she is concerned about the braces enabling predators to get to the
box. From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 9:04 AM Subject: RE: Boxes shaking in the wind Bet, I have 2 nestboxes on 2" PVC pipes and they sway and one of them moved around a little last year. It did not deter the birds nor did any eggs break. The baffles need to move and all of mine do. That does not deter the birds. If the baffle is resting on the pole on one side and not swinging, it is not doing its job. I would not put any braces. Evelyn Cooper From: Chris&Crystal Hill [mailto:crystaljhill"at"msn.com] Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 9:20 AM Subject: Re: Boxes shaking in the wind Same here mine move a little and the baffles do clang against the poles, if the wind picks up....But had successful nestings last year.......... We have a brace that goes in the ground at the bottom of the pole to give extra support....... http://www.birdtracks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=2517&Category_Code=16 note brace at bottom of pole (4 legs) Crystal Hill From: Cher [mailto:BluebirdNut"at"a-znet.com] The braces would seem to defeat the purpose of the baffle. I'd be afraid to use them. I had a swaying problem with one of my nestboxes one year, before I replaced its pvc mounting post with heavy metal pipe. The swaying bugged me, but the birds seemed unfazed by it. After replacing the post with a metal one, the swaying was better, but the baffle clangs more noisily against the metal pipe than it did against the pvc one. In any case, neither problem seemed to bother the birds at all. I was the one being fussy. However, if your friend's nestboxes are shaking so violently that she's afraid of egg breakage, is there any chance she could move them somewhere on her property where there's a natural windbreak? On the leeward side of a building or tree line or something? Not too close, of course, but just close enough to protect them from the wind somewhat? Cher From: Larry A Broadbent [mailto:rockets"at"mnsi.net] Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 2:39 PM Subject: Re: Boxes shaking in the wind I agree with Evelyn, that the baffles need to move / swing / tilt easily in any direction. If the baffle is resting on the pole on one side and not swinging, it is not doing its job. Excellent advice Evelyn! You really know your stuff. I designed my PVC Baffles to do precisely this. Shalom, From: Torrey [mailto:torrey_canyon"at"yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 1:39 PM Subject: Re: Boxes shaking in the wind Hi Bet! Are her boxes connected to the pole at one point or two? Is the connection
tight or is there some looseness? I use heavy guage electric fence wire at
2 points on my boxes & i try to wire them very tightly. yours, Torrey From: Nature1951"at"aol.com [mailto:Nature1951"at"aol.com] Bet, In nature, cavities in holes in extended tree limbs etc., often shake in the wind, and evolution has enabled cavity nesters to adapt quite well to that "shaking effect", I believe. In reference to the "noise factor" due to the baffles.......For years one of my most productive sites for bluebirds was (is) less than 250 feet from a very active trap shooting range. (The habitat there is ideal.) I have always been amazed to find that bluebirds successfully nest there year after year, despite the near deafening noise. The birds seem to tolerate the noise better than I do for sure. Cordially, From: Lawrence Herbert [mailto:lherbert"at"4state.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 6:09 PM Subject: shaking in the wind Another thought about bluebird sites shaking from the wind is that a domed shaped cup for a nest must certainly deter wind and shaking disturbance. Good birding, Larry H. Joplin MO. From: Lana Hunt [mailto:lanahunt"at"kcp.uky.edu] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 3:30 PM Subject: Re: Just plain gone. Bruce. I just received 50 silky dogwood shrubs to plant for the wild life (and I remember as a child my Dad had a thing I believe called an auger ... Lana From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 4:18 PM Subject: Re: Just plain gone. Lana, Bruce Burdett, SW NH From: PTom [mailto:ptom"at"austin.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 10:58 PM Subject: Re: Crow-bar / Spud Bar / Breaker Bar In the corner of the world where I live (the Edwards Plateau in Texas), we call the heavy steel bar with a point a "breaker bar". A breaker bar breaks through the limestone that lies above, at, just under, or not far under the surface. ... Almost-solid limestone presents a bluebird nestbox installation challenge! Pauline Tom, Mountain City (no mountains) TX Subject: Re: Various kinds of bars Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:25:27 -0400 From: Bruce Burdett <blueburd"at"verizon.net> PTom, Chuck, et al, Bruce Burdett, SW NH ... Subject: Re: Various kinds of bars They do make bars for planting seedlings. The general terms used are You can find these dibbles or dibble bars "at" most arborist supply stores, or Hope this helps out some. At least it adds to the list of "bars"... --J Jimmy Dodson Subject: Re: Various kinds of bars You would think someone would make a contraption for planting I can't believe our weather forecast for the coming weekend has a chance of By the way, it says right on the box, nest box and/or feeder extension pole PS. Another bar, the current popular phrase at work now days is "Raise the Thanks, Subject: Re: Crow-bars Here is a link to a Spud Bar. I am 43 years old, and have always heard my father and grandfather refer to this tool as a Spud Bar. I guess you could call it a Crow Bar if you wanted to...I always thought a Crow Bar was a tool that was about 24-36 inches, and used for prying things like boards that were nailed. Anyway, here is the link to the Spud Bar. http://www.hooverfence.com/tools/digger-tamper.htm Regards, Mark, Hillsborough, NJ From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net] Chuck, Lana, Mark, et al, I think that this bar was designed originally for prying up and moving boulders and blocks of stone which were too heavy to carry. For the stone-wall builder it was (is) indispensable (sp?) From: Lana Hunt [mailto:lanahunt"at"kcp.uky.edu] Good morning. Bruce, I found the type of bar you described at our Lowe’s Home and Garden store. However, it was much larger in diameter, one and one inches (very heavy!). There were several empty "bins" beside it, so perhaps they were out of the 3/4" size. As of to date I have accumulated: a 1' 6" auger tool that fits into a cordless drill, 1" diameter drill thing that fits into a cordless drill, a long handled bulb planter and a pair of knee pads. This morning it is pouring the rain, 38 degrees and we have a severe wind advisory. If it were not for this, I think I could take the 1' 6" round green metal birdhouse mounting post and just push it into the ground with my bare hands! The tool I described that my Dad had, the sales representative in the tool section said it was antique and no longer available. Some of us have been concerned about the temperature change and our nest boxes that have eggs or nestlings. Some members feel that providing them with additional food sources would help them maintain their warmth. I provide mealworms in a make shift feeder with a roof, the worms are always gone, but I have never seen a blue bird in the feeder (or any other bird for that matter). They are in a 2" tall ceramic dish so I do not think they are crawling out on their own. I am asking one of those silly questions, has anyone ever just put a few mealworms directly into the next box? These are less than a week old nestlings. With the rain, cold and wind, Mom and Dad could use all the help they can get. PS. I really wish I had one of those *Lana bars*, someday I will find one! Lana Hunt From: Tree Greenwood [mailto:doctree"at"crosslink.net] Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 4:03 AM Subject: Re: Thanks, and...! Hi Dave & Trish, I don't recommend PVC. It's not UV resistant and will become brittle and break after a few months unless you take the time to sand it, prime it and then coat it with several coats of paint, preferably something like Elastomeric that's designed to protect against the sun's rays. If you have more than a couple of boxes, standardization helps with management. Only tools needed are a hacksaw and electric drill plus a sledge hammer and rasp. Get it all from a home improvement store like Lowes: - 5' lengths of 1/2" ID thinwall EMT conduit Using a hack saw, make a diagonal cut in the middle of the reinforcing bar leaving you with 4' lengths with a point on one end and flat on the other. Drill 3/32" holes in the EMT to match holes in the lower part of the back of the nestbox(s). Deck screws will self-thread into the 3/32" holes and hold the nestbox tightly against the EMT. To place a box, drive the rebar into the ground about I mount gourds the same way except that I only drill one hole and use 8 gauge steel fence wire to make a shepard's hook that sticks out the top of the EMT. A sharp bend in the bottom of the wire is stuck through the hole and bent down to keep it in place and prevent windmilling. The gourds swing and bounce a lot. HOSP generally don't like gourds but will sometimes enter them; BB don't use them very often, either. TRES, CACH and wrens love them. Add a predator guard of your choice and you're done. Take care, R J 'Tree' Greenwood From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 7:19 AM Subject: RE: Thanks, and...! Three of my nestboxes are on 2" PVC pipe. We installed the stovepipe Evelyn Cooper From: Bill Stump [mailto:bstump"at"bright.net] Evelyn, From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 8:36 AM Subject: RE: Thanks, and...! It is a metal post that is used for fencing. My husband uses it to put a hot wire on around the fields that he is grazing cattle on. You see these posts used on Wildlife Refuge areas for nestboxes too. Everything pertaining to putting a unit together has gone up in price, even the "c" clamps we use to attach the nestbox on the poles with. Evelyn Cooper, Delhi, LA From: Trish Culpepper [mailto:trishkcully"at"earthlink.net] Trish - Frankston, TX From: Mary Haik [mailto:m.haik"at"charter.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 1:55 AM Subject: RE: He finally did it I would really prefer not to have my box on a tree, but don’t have a metal pole at present, so I still have it on a tree. I am not sure about the last group of chicks, they may have been eaten by some form of predator. They were pretty large and just about ready to fledge, and I went out one morning and didn’t notice any activity around the box, so I peeked in and there was one dead chick left in the box. I don’t know if they fledged, and there was one dead one left after fledging, or if a predator got all but one chick. Guess I will never know for sure, but it seemed strange that a predator would take all but one, and I didn’t see any blood or lots of feathers, etc. to indicate any kind of a struggle for the other chicks, just the one dead chick in the bottom of the nest. Isn’t there something that you can put around the hole that discourages predators? I think I remember seeing that somewhere. I am fairly new at this, this is our second year to have boxes up. We live on a small suburban lot, about 1/3 acre, so I put up 2 boxes, but always only one is used for BB. I have been following some other threads about problems with HOSP, but have never noticed that here. Maybe they don’t have them in the deep south like they do in some areas? Mary From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 6:11 AM Subject: RE: He finally did it Hi Mary: I had a similar incident in my early years of bluebirding. I did not have a proper guard on my pole and I went out one morning to check the nestbox, and four of five babies were gone. One was left lying on the side of the nest. Then, a few days later, I did find a snake in a nestbox, full with 4 ready to fledge babies in his belly. We got busy and put up the Ron Kingston stovepipe guards and it solved my problem. I encourage you to move your box to a pole (you can use "T" post, it is cheaper) and install a proper guard. You can make the stovepipe guard, or you can buy a plastic or metal cone shaped one to use. Kenny Kleinpeter has them on some at our Highland Road Park Trail in Baton Rouge. He devised a way to plug the space between the "t" post and the cone to stop smaller snakes. I think he pushes some foam rubber in the space. I could find out what he uses. If you need instructions for the stovepipe guard, let me know. Once snakes find an easy meal, they will be back and are hard to contend with unless you find a way to stop them. One of our LBBS members that has 1,110 nestboxes, had less than 50% fledging rate in the 2004 nesting season because of snakes. He installed many guards and snake traps this season and I am anxious to read his reports this year. I am glad to hear you have bluebirds in Mandeville near New Orleans. I sent an e-mail to the LABIRD List out of Baton Rouge asking for reports south of I-10 of bluebirds nesting and was surprised the good results I received. We do have a member in the city of New Orleans, but she says she has no Bluebirds. She sponsors a member in Metairie. Keep up the good work!! Evelyn Cooper, President From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net] Mary, From: Jean Carter Wilson [mailto:peanut123"at"comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 3:25 PM Subject: Re: Houses on trees? Yep. I didn't know any better at one point and lost three of my five babies to a cat. Please don't do this to your little birds. You can get a raccoon baffle and a pole for about $30 online. http://www.bluebirdsforever.com/baffles.html From: Autumn L. Kruer [mailto:autumnk"at"iglou.com] Mary, I started out with a little wren box someone gave me, believe it or not. About four years ago, I hung it on a branch in the maple tree right in front of my house and waited for birds. I had no clue what birds it would attract. I got bluebirds, two clutches of them. After the first, I bought Julie Zicafoose’s bluebird landlord book at Lowes. And realized they were in danger in that tree. But they’d already started a second nesting. I was lucky. And I had my first experience then with a HOSP, too, which I ran off. My husband’s field & stream club builds bluebird boxes every February, and we then put them up properly with predator guards by the next season. It’s not strange to see no blood or feathers. Plenty of predators will just pull them out and take them with them, or eat them until they’re full or something scares them away at the moment. Snakes will swallow them whole. The one dead one could have simply starved to death after being orphaned. A metal hole guard will keep squirrels or other predators from chewing the hole bigger and an extended hole guard will make it more difficult for jays, crows or other birds of prey to reach their heads in and pull bluebirds out. A guard on the hole won’t stop climbing predators such as snakes or crafty little coon paws – that requires something to keep them from climbing. Autumn in Kentucky From: Kenny Kleinpeter [mailto:kpkmajk"at"cox.net] Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 6:34 AM Subject: RE: He finally did it I manage a six-box trail in a public park with very good success. I use six foot T-posts with the Stokes squirrel baffle (purchased online through PetSmart for about $15). It's an expensive route but I consider it important to have an attractive, functional and safe solution in an area where the public frequents. The mount that is supplied with the guard still leaves a 1/4" gap in two sides of the post where a small snake can squeeze through (it's amazing how small a space a snake can get through!) so, I use a hack saw (and gloves) to cut tennis balls in half and then, score a "T" in the halves so that I can slip the half-sphere down the pole shaft so that it rests on top of the mount. The cone then seats on top of the tennis ball for a very good seal. No snake would be strong enough to "nose" the cone up and be small enough to get through the 1/4" gap. Kenny Kleinpeter From: Paul Kilduff [mailto:pkilduff"at"usconnex.net] Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 8:56 AM Subject: RE: (He finally did it) - mounting boxes on poles The pole can be conduit -- more expensive than it used to be since price of steel went up but still pretty reasonable -- a 10' length of 3/4" conduit (EMT) is at Lowe's/Home Depot for about $6 last time I checked. You can cut it with a hacksaw or metal cutting blade to 6'-6.5' long, then sink it into the ground. To do that you need a pole pounder -- I got mine at Southern States but they've all closed up around here now. It's a cylinder of iron with handles on the sides, open at one end and closed at the other. It's worth its weight in gold! A simple tool that makes an impossible job easy (except the exertion). You put it over the pole and keep pounding till the pole is at the proper height. We use all top-opening boxes and I put the boxes at a height where our shortest monitor can see in over the top. With Kingston guards it works. There's a pic of a pole pounder here http://www.connectadock.com/dock/1000Series/1000SeriesPoleAnchoring.asp Paul Kilduff From: RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com [mailto:RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com] In a Message dated 6/30/05 6:04:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time, pkilduff"at"usconnex.net writes: you need a pole pounder There are also post hole diggers and they even make a drill bit about 3 feet long that can be used with an A/c drill, dc drill or even manually. Everyone should make sure where the powerlines are and telephone and cable tv as well as water lines (house and sprinkler systems). Hitting one of these could ruin your day. In Florida you would be legally liable. Ron From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 9:51 AM Subject: RE: (He finally did it) - mounting boxes on poles How about $11.00 per conduit pole last time I checked at my hardware? The "T" post had gone up to $4.00 from $2.25. Even lumber is going up too. My husband built a pounder and it is really worth its weight in gold. We made several units for an LBBS member and his family (he gave them as Christmas presents last year) and my husband built a pounder for him to take home with him. Evelyn Cooper, Delhi , LA From: Paul Kilduff [mailto:pkilduff"at"usconnex.net] Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 10:02 AM Subject: RE: (He finally did it) - mounting boxes on poles http://www.grainger.com/industrial-supplies/ConduitandWireways6XC31.html From: George Smith [mailto:glsnj"at"yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 10:46 AM Subject: Re: (He finally did it) - mounting boxes on poles Hi, Couldn't find 3/4 inch emt conduit at home depot.. http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=72713-000001792-72713&lpage=none I made my own post pounder by purchasing a piece of iron "gas" pipe which is threaded and its associated end cap.... became very handy when I was installing a fence.... George From: elizabeth.young"at"spotplus.com [mailto:elizabeth.young"at"spotplus.com] Yes, I get my 3/4" at Home Depot here in Dallas TX and it is around $5 something. I wet the ground real good, pound in a piece of rebar and then the pipe over it. I just keep pulling on the pipe (wearing gloves) and it eventually sinks. Then when this thick black goo called dirt dries it is like cement. From: Amy Louise Marr [mailto:MARR_AMY_LOUISE"at"Lilly.com] Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 11:08 AM Subject: mounting boxes on poles I've noticed that EMT (conduit ?) pipe can buckle and split along a 'seam' when under the load of a heavier wooden (Peterson box) mounted moderately high (6'), even with 2-3' of the pipe in the ground. Ag supply stores sell post pounders for about $20. Works great for T posts and pipe. Amy Louise Marr From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 11:38 AM Subject: RE: mounting boxes on poles My favorite is still the "T" post. We have some heavy 1" (true) and 3/4ths" I also like the way the hardware cloth fits on the stovepipe guard fits so close on the "T" post. He just makes a slit in it and it slips right over. Evelyn [subsequent posts:] I meant 7/8ths" lumber instead of 3/4ths. We get it cut at a sawmill and it is the true measurements. So very nice! I also meant to include Cypress in the lumber we buy at the sawmill. In fact, more of the boxes were Cypress and they are beauties. They are heavy to be Cypress. The wood is not green. I am painting bluebirds on one this morning for my son's front yard in Delhi. It is worth driving several miles if you can find one of these little saw mills. Evelyn From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net] Amy Louise, et al, From: sharonpj"at"swbell.net [mailto:sharonpj"at"swbell.net] Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 3:28 PMu Subject: RE: mounting boxes on poles Wildbirds Unlimited sells poles that screw into the ground. They are Sharon From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net] Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 2:24 PM Subject: Re: mounting boxes on poles Evelyn, et al, From: Tree Greenwood [mailto:doctree"at"crosslink.net] Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 3:33 PM Subject: Nestboxes in Trees (was "RE: He finally did it") I agree that nestboxes for Bluebirds and Tree Swallows should be on poles in open areas to defend against predators and compeditors. More EABB fledge from these boxes than from boxes that I used to put on wooden posts in less suitable areas. But I also put nestboxes in trees and I won't disparage anyone who chooses to do so. With a shortage of natural cavities, it doesn't hurt to provide more man-made cavities. In my experience, Wrens and Nuthatches prefer boxes in trees. I modified a nestbox design, like http://www.50birds.com/MPSideMount.htm Those boxes are attached against the trunks of mature maple, willow and walnut trees. I use an extension ladder to get to them. My owl and kestrel boxes are also mounted high in trees. Do I lose birds to predators? Surprisingly few since the trees are single specimens or clumps in the middle of lawns, mowed fields or have tended garden patches underneath. Raccoons, snakes and other predators need to eat, too. I prefer that they eat rodents and discourage them from eating birds with guards. A wrap of wide aluminum flashing deters squirrels and raccoons from climbing to the nestboxes in the trees but isn't always effective. So provide ideal nestboxes on poles with stove pipe baffle predator guards out in the open at the edge of your lawn or field. My EABB & TRES prefer them. But I like to provide even more cavities up in the trees for birds that prefer that habitat. I also hang boxes and gourds under the eaves of my home. I have a roughened I enjoy all birds, even the ones that don't follow the rules and choose to nest where they are vulnerable to predators. Quite a few are successful and provide as much entertainment as the EABB and TRES that choose more protected boxes. Take care, R J 'Tree' Greenwood From: Autumn L. Kruer [mailto:autumnk"at"iglou.com] Sent: Friday, July 01, 2005 8:30 AM Subject: RE: Nestboxes in Trees (was "RE: He finally did it") Without trying to be disrespectful, I have to ask, um, what part of man-made Autumn in Kentucky From: Bet Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net] I’ve had the conduit splitting happen too, but my husband said it’s from rain getting in there and freezing. I’ve started putting a wine cork in the top – most fit perfectly. This was also my solution when I put boxes up at a landfill (didn’t want to create a conduit for any rainwater infiltration to seep through garbage and move contaminants into groundwater.) Bet from CT From: melissa fox [mailto:meberle2"at"hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 11:00 PM Subject: Mount failure I got the book "The Bluebird Monitor's Guide" from the library and decided the best mount for my box location would be a telescoping mount. I just don't want to take any chances with the abudance of raccoons and farm cats, esp since I'm not there everyday. I did what the book said.........got the equipment it called for today (1/2" I originally wanted to mount it to a metal fence post.....but if I did that it would only be about 5' or 6' high, within striking distance of a leaping cat. What other options are there? (I also planned on putting a stovepipe baffle on my mount as well, for added security) -Melissa...still without a birdhouse up.....in Columbus From: lviolett [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net] Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 11:59 PM Subject: Re: Mount failure Did you consider hanging boxes? Linda Violett From: Evelyn Cooper I would like to point out that to state for the whole nation that a "hanging box trail" should not be a recommendation overall to every part of our nation. From: lviolett [mailto:lviolett"at"earthlink.net] As Evelyn states, each monitor must assess their own particular trail/backyard conditions for nestbox setups. For congested urban trails in my area, hanging boxes have been the only viable option. And hanging boxes are working beautifully on the mountain forest trail, as well. From: Bruce Burdett [mailto:blueburd"at"verizon.net] Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 8:55 AM Subject: Re: Mount failure Melissa, Bruce Burdett SW NH From: Keith & Sandy Kridler [mailto:txbluebirder"at"sbcglobal.net] Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 9:05 AM Subject: Using the Harry Krueger snake trap on trees Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas I was using a snake trap made from Ross's Garden Netting that was 24" wide by 72" long to go around 8"> 12" diameter wood power poles. You fold over the netting and sew the open edge together with light gauge wire to make a trap that is 12" wide doubled and 72" long bunched up somewhat on about 48" Anyway the Arkansas boys used this method and made snake traps for all of the active nests they could find and they caught 12 snakes at the 18 locations climbing up the pine trees that had nests above them! They were amazed at the number of potential nest saves this trap produced the first summer. The larger the tree you use to hang nestboxes and the more limbs there are and the further away from the trunk you hang the nestbox the less likely you are to have predators find the nestbox. In my area using large solitary trees in open livestock pastures removes many if not most of ground based predators. Most predators work the edges of forest woodlands and fence rows. Linda is not saying to convert ALL of your nestboxes to hanging boxes but look in your area and select a tree in ideal habitat and then look to see if it has good limb structure to support a nestbox. Gourds and PVC nestboxes are lighter in weight and make Ideal hanging boxes. Jack Finch is making nestboxes out of Paulownia wood that are 1/2 the weight of his yellow pine nestboxes and these Paulownia are made from lumber he cuts from the trees he planted when he turned 79 years old! You can install the Krueger snake trap so that it will catch ONLY the snakes that crawl down the limb the box is hanging from IF the limb structure keeps snakes from reaching the box from above or below. Bob Walshaw in Oklahoma hangs his nestboxes below the tree limbs and leaves about 24" or so between the limb and the box with heavy wire attached to the middle of the box roof. Instead of using the box lifter like Linda, he carries a pole with a hook and pulls the limb down to where he can unhook the box from the limb by hand. You can apply ant repellant to the wire holding up the nestbox. Some people dip a pipe cleaner in insecticide or insect repellent and wrap the pipe cleaner around the hanging wire to repel ants. We had 11 horses on 42 acres and they would knock down ANY type pole I could afford. To check the nestboxes on our farm, I fired up the tractor and bush hogged a strip around the farm. By standing on the fender of our tractor I could look into nestboxes mounted 9 feet off the ground. I could reach limbs You can use metal hole guards to protect the nestbox from chewing rodents. From: melissa fox [mailto:meberle2"at"hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 10:27 AM Subject: Re: Mount failure Hi Dan, et all, I used the smallest size EMT conduit that Home Depot has........Eric told me the rebar was still too small for it.......the connector he bought was supposed to tighten around it, but even after he tightened it with the screws.......the conduit still slipped down to the ground. The rebar stuck up about 2 foot high, with 2 foot of it in the ground.....and he put the conduit over that and placed the connector towards the top of the rebar to make the pole higher. Also, the box was too heavy for it and it was leaning slightly to the side, but would be able to blow around in the wind if a big storm came. It just wasn't as sturdy as I hoped for. We usually go to my father-in-law's twice a week and there are a lot of raccoons and farm cats running around........so I wanted to use the telescoping method to keep it out of reach of jumping cats...... (I'm going to go back through my e-mails and look into everyone's suggestions more.....so if I don't respond right away that's why.) Oh, forgot to mention........my in-law's are trying to give me a hard time about it too. Griping that it's "another thing to mow around". I told them to leave that part and I'd mow it then! Sheesh..... -Melissa from Columbus From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com] Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 11:31 AM Subject: Re: Mount failure I put vinegar around my poles and no "weed eating" or mowing. It kills the weeds and grass. Helps have peaceful relationships. From: David Gwin [mailto:David.Gwin"at"cityofcarrollton.com] Morning, Evelyn: From: John Schuster [mailto:wildwingco"at"earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 10:56 AM Subject: Re: Mount failure, plus how to build your own Speed Mount System and more Dear Melissa, We use nothing but 3/4" EMT pipe, cut to 5 foot lengths (one end hammered closed to keep dirt out and help anchor the pole) or a 1 foot section of same for mounting to the top of Highway stakes (in vineyards.) Both are coupled to our Speed Mount System secured under our Meadowood Bluebird nest boxes and here is how you can fabricate your own. The Speed Mount System uses a square EMT floor plate which either comes with or without a 1/2" punch out in the middle of the plate. We punch out the middle and drill out the EMT plate to 1 1/16 inches to accommodate a 3/4" EMT duel coupler that is cold welded to the plate with J & B Weld (in my opinion, the toughest 2 stage glue there is.) Then the bottom outside of the 5" x 5" floor on our Meadowood Bluebird nest boxes is counter sunk in the middle with a 1 1/2 inch Forstner bit (do not drill all the way though the floor) and the Speed Mount System is secured with four 3/4" #10 Phillips screws (always drill pilot holes before screwing into wood to eliminate splitting.) Once installed, the hight from the base of the entrance hole to our Meadowood Bluebird nest boxes to the ground is 4.5 feet (passive House Sparrow control.) The Speed Mount System is a tough as nails system. I've seen accidental tractor hits to Speed Mount System secured nest boxes where the 3/4" EMT pipe bends, but the nest box will still be secured to the Speed Mount System. The Speed Mount System can tightened down without tools and gives you a full 360 degree turning radius to point your nest boxes in any desired direction (more on this below.) However, with all that said, and if you are using a NABS or Peterson nest boxes, you can cut your 3/4 inch pipes to the desired length, hammer closed one end of the pipe and mount the nest box using U-Bolts or EMT U-Straps that you can get at any hardware store. The other benefit to using U-Bolts, EMT U-Straps or the Speed Mount System, is that you have a full 360 degrees of turning radius to point your nest boxes in any desired direction. When practical, we always point our nest boxes East because the moon (for nocturnal cavity nesters) and sun (in the morning when birds are most active) illuminates the front of the nest box to help cavity nesting birds find the nest boxes faster. Furthermore, the jet stream rarely blows from East to West so the front of the nest box is protected for the elements. An alternate would be to face your nest boxes South East, but facing your nest boxes East is best in my opinion. As for PVC plastic? In my opinion it's to flimsy, but might work OK if you go up to 2" or better in schedule 80, but personally, I like 3/4 inch EMT steel better (cheaper than 1 inch or larger EMT steel poles.) In closing and I ask you, how much do you really think a nest box weighs with cavity nesting birds inside away??? Not much I can assure you so use 3/4 inch EMT. Cheers and as always... Happy Bluebird Trails To You, John Schuster, Owner / Operator From: David Gwin [mailto:David.Gwin"at"cityofcarrollton.com] ... From: Maynard Sumner [mailto:m-r-sumner"at"juno.com] Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 4:07 PM Subject: Re: Mount failure Malissa, You need to take the screw out that came with it and put a longer screw in. Some times you need to go to 3/4 EMT conduit when you are putting a Peterson up. Maynard Sumner From: KCBSP"at"aol.com [mailto:KCBSP"at"aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 11:57 PM Subject: Hanging boxes Linda's hanging boxes work fine for me. They have been very successful and I've never had a snake in any of them. I have snakes take eggs, once or twice young in standard boxes off and on even with snake guards. I have used hanging mansions like Linda's with two holes for about 7 years. Just one is a one holer. Other species like them as well same as on my standard trail. If I have trouble at times with a house sparrow I just move the box a few times. Often enough that seems to be enough. They definitely are cooler. I would notice the chicks are not panting in the hot sun. I wouldn't rule out a trial of these boxes especially in parks. Surprisingly one might think wrens would be abundant in them, but that's not really so either. All activity seems equal across the board. |