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Nestbox (Made of Cardboard)
From: Jack Olmstead [mailto:jack"at"birdinabox.com] Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 1:50 PM Subject: bluebirds Would you consider linking our site www.birdinabox.com with your site. A great many people are finding our inexpensive bird boxes suit their needs. If we may be of any other help please contact us. Jack Olmstead Bird In A Box Inc. From: "Jim McLochlin" bluebirdbox"at"cox.net Jack, Prior to giving you an answer I thought I would forward your email to other bluebirders on the mailing lists bluebird-l and bluebirdtrails on the yahoo groups. I know what my reaction is I just want to see what others have to say about your box design. It should be particularly interesting in that recent discussions on the bluebird-l list have included PVC vs. wood box designs. I would encourage those on the lists to let both Jack and the lists know how you feel about his design. Jim McLochlin From: "Jim McLochlin" bluebirdbox"at"cox.net I am trying to make a point with my forward of the Message I received from the owner of the web site www.birdinabox.com I won't give my feelings away until some others have had a chance to voice themselves. I would like to point out that this site is listed quite a bit higher in the search engines than more traditional nest box designer products i.e. www.realbirdhomes.com and http://www.vanerttraps.com/ see google.com (under Shopping Home and Garden Garden Accessories Birdhouses, Feeders, and Baths) for more information. It is real hard for me not to make a comment at this time, but I will with hold comment. Jim McLochlin Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 04:19:51 -0000 A resounding thumbs down! In an ideal world with ideal weather and absolutely no predators I still wouldn't be interested. A giant step backward. john From: "Keith & Sandy Kridler" kridler"at"1starnet.com Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas The bad news was that in the south the boxes actually got so hot the wax Just like political signs they were designed for a single use or nesting but NO ONE would remove the boxes once they were installed and the old cardboard box designs had a nasty habit of the bottom releasing and dropping all of the nestlings out of the box. The ONLY good point of these boxes was that paper wasps found it impossible to attach a nest to the waxed cardboard. The good news is that most of these boxes were put together as school projects in the past and probably most of these boxes were placed for House Sparrows. Bluebird species survived the last onslaught of waxed cardboard boxes and probably will out live this website. I think I mentioned these waxed cardboard boxes (coffins) in the Bluebird Monitor's Guide as one of the box styles NOT to use. I would think that forwarding all of the comments made on this type of nestbox to their website MIGHT make a difference! It they are busy reading negative e-mails they will not have time to fill orders! KK From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com Keith beat me to it and pretty much said it all on the subject of the
BIRDINABOX product. He even included some negatives that I hadn't thought of, or
didn't know. This looks like a very unsatisfactory product, and a very misleading advertising Website. I don't think that these people are part of an "evil axis," but they appear to be either ill-informed or uninformed, or both. Bruce Burdett, in SW NH From: bluebirdbox"at"cox.net Let me clear one point that I didn't make clear. www.birdinabox.com is asking me for a link from my web site "The Bluebird Box". They are not asking for a link to or from bluebird-l which I have no control over.
I vote no on this one. Maynard Sumner Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:17:22 -0800 (PST) I would not have a link for a nest box that clearly shows how it could do more harm than good to the cavity nesters that occupy them on my web site UNLESS it is something to educate the public on the hazards of this product... Kerry in NE corner of Okla. From: "Fawzi P. Emad femad <at> fpemad <dot> com I think in view of what KK said, if I were you, I would not put their link up to them from your web site. I might even put a *warning* to others to avoid such a cardboard nestbox due to the reasons stated earlier by Keith. Fawzi Fawzi Emad in Laytonsville, Maryland From: "Bruce Burdett" blueburd"at"srnet.com Anyone who would like to see the waxed-cardboard box I commented on may see their Website at www.birdinabox.com Sorry if I confused anyone. I hope you all write to the company and share your opinions with the manufacturer/marketer. Bruce Burdett From: "Bill & Dot Forrester" forreste"at"ptdprolog.net Please, all of you who cherish bluebirds, take time to write to the owner of this website (given below). I have already done so, explaining briefly and politely why his box design is not safe, and asking that he remove it from the attention of any unsuspecting bluebirders out there who may buy it in good faith. Our world has not been kind to wildlife. Individuals like us may not be able to change everything, but we certainly can attempt to stop one misguided person from increasing the carnage. Dot From: Rxbarry2"at"cs.com RX Barry, Peoria, AZ I agree whole-heartedly with KK and others on the de-merits of these cardboard death traps. While in Grad school in Louisiana in the early 90's, one of the big paper companies gave us some of their boxes to test. I put up about a dozen and, unfortunately, provided a "boxed lunch" for raccoons. Nearly every one had the top ripped open and the contents removed. In addition, ones placed in the open lost their wax coating and the bottoms fell out. Maybe this company should promote their use for HOSP, it might solve other people's problems... From: "emcooper" emcooper"at"bayou.com I sent an e-mail expressing my vote as "No" for the cardboard nestbox. Hopefully, others will too. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, Louisiana From: "Bill Darnell" bdarnel3"at"bellsouth.net Having retired from working in a Kraft Linerboard mill for over 38 years, I can understand easily how a coon could gain access to the normal paper grades. We made a very heavy grade sometimes which was called "wet strength" because it took forever to dissolve in water, but it eventually would. 20 No, paper is not for birdhouses! Bill From: "Jim McLochlin" bluebirdbox"at"cox.net Jack, I won't be adding a link to your site from The Bluebird Box nor can I recommend your cardboard nestboxes to anyone that I am aware of at the current time. I can think of only one instance where a cardboard box such as you sell would be appropriate. That would be in research. That research could have to do with hole size, orientation, or the feasibility of cardboard boxes to be used as nest boxes, etc. I do recall one research that was done in the past with cardboard boxes and pronthonatary warblers. It was a one year study, that when completed the boxes were removed and more permanent boxes were set in place. I don't recall all the details of the study so I won't elaborate at this time. I am certain that your link request did not meet the desired results you had
hoped for, and for that I do apologize. I think you need to understand that the
bluebirding community take a lot of pride and concern in what is acceptable
material, configuration, and mounting for nest boxes. Most experienced
bluebirders will go to great expense and trouble to try an insure a successful
nesting for any native cavity nesting bird. I feel cardboard boxes provide
little insurance in that regard. In my mind this is one of the reasons that the
North American Bluebird Society (NABS) set up the nestbox approval process ( see
- http://www.nabluebirdsociety.org/approval.htm for more information). If you
really feel that your box is worthy for use for native cavity nesters I suggest
you submit your box for approval by NABS. Jim McLochlin Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 00:32:21 -0000 Horrible nestbox for any cavity nesters. I could go on with my complaints but most have already been stated. May as well include coffee cans and milk containers with these death traps. Freeze in the winter and fry in the summer. BOOOOOOoooooo! Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:12:43 -0600 Jim, what a well-written, courteous reply, while still saying what needs to be said! I wrote them as well, trying to politely steer them toward some other options. Kate Oschwald From: Karen Louise Lippy [brdbrain"at"superpa.net] Jim, We have had some problems with our raccoons here in the state in the past few years. Rabies and distemper took a heavy toll of these mammals and the population dropped dramatically. Trappers said it was hardly worth setting traps since they were catching so few. There was also a disease that caused paralysis and blindness in raccoons which was transferable to people, I believe. I think I read something about this in the PA Game Commission's magazine. They have recovered somewhat in the past few years, but rabies is still a recurirng problem in the area. We have a trail with about 170 boxes at a state park. Before this past year, only 3-4 boxes had been raided by raccoons. This year a raccoon checked boxes on posts on a regular basis in one area. Boxes hanging in trees were ignored. The raccoon even climbed up to check out a bat box which was newly erected. Muddy paw prints went up the post. I don't feel coons are too bad a problem in our area, but I realize they
could be. I did put one of these cardboard boxes on the fence in my yard this
past summer. No birds used it, but it is still in pretty decent shape. I live in
town, so I thought I'd try it here. (Note this Message was sent to me privately, but as a result of the Messages on the lists and therefore belongs here) From: "Stan, Apple Valley/St. Paul, MN [44.44N, -93.10W]"
stan1bb"at"frontiernet.net Hello Jack! I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. I'm sure that your new "death contraption" means well; however, may I urge you to check the Bluebird Reference Guide http://bluebird.htmlplanet.com/ for information about Bluebirds, recommended nestboxes, etc. There is the old adage, "You get what you pay for!" And, how true this would be! Such a box as you promote would serve only as a "death sentence" for bluebirds and/or any others succumbing to utilizing such. Though I do not profess to having all the answers, if you have any questions, you may e-mail me; and I'll be happy to consult our bluebird experts. Happy birding! Thanks for listening! Stan From: Karen Louise Lippy [brdbrain"at"superpa.net] Jack, Stan, I have one of these "cardboard death traps" on my fence in my back yard. I live in a suburban area. I have had house wrens use it and survive. The box has been up for 2 years, and while it is deteriorating, it has housed several families of house wrens. I have friends who are single moms. They lack the skills to build boxes, and the money is not always there for them to buy a wooden box. These boxes are quick and easy to put together. Why should someone with little money and few carpentry skills be denied the opportunity of sharing a look into the life of birds with their children? If the box lasts 2 years and hosts 2-4 clutches of eggs and chicks, it has served a purpose and filled a need that would not have been met without them. While bluebird monitors assume every box will be raided by a predator, that
is not always the case. I will concede that a wooden nestbox is far superior to a waxed carton, if you will concede that the carton is not 'always' a guarenteed death trap. Karen (Note this Message was sent to me privately, but as a result of the Messages on the lists and therefore belongs here) From: Sara Ann [mailto:sawright"at"direcway.com] My BIL lives alone in (a very small) town. He saw a bluebird in his yard last year and quickly put up a nest box. The BB and his mate immediately began building in their new home and raised their babies successfully. The box? Made by Quaker Oats. But we're hillbillies in the Ozarks. Maybe our bluebirds are too. They don't seem to be nearly as picky about their homes. And did I mention that a cat lived there also? But the 'box' hung up under the roof. The cat could only stare and dream. (Do ya think this qualifies for Ripley's Believe It Or Not?) Sara Ann From: Sara Ann [mailto:sawright"at"direcway.com] ... My MIL, at 86, still puts a clean Quaker Oats box on her porch every spring, along with an occasional soup can for wrens. MIL is housebound, so she has to have things close at hand. I'm convinced that confidence adds to her success at having a variety of birds nesting in her 'houses'. She had to 'make do' all her life, and she knows that most living things will use whatever is convenient. Sara Ann |
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