Avian (Bird) Flu

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
Right now in the news all they talk about is how the H5N1 type A flu virus will affect humans. Lets look at it quickly from the wild birds view.

MOST wild bird species have a very wide gene pool and like most of us they have survived MANY different strains of "bird flu" in their lives. While many individuals of species that are "flocking" type birds or that congregate in a small area will die of the complications from this virus.
MANY will become immune and survive but still be carriers and spread the virus where ever they travel. This is exactly what happened in the country of Turkey this week where migrating wild birds infected domestic turkey farms.

Birds at risk of being wiped out completely would be species that are very rare with a small or narrow gene pool like Whooping Cranes and California Condors whose gene pool is from less than 20 birds.

Domestic Turkeys and Chickens have been line bred for more than 60 of their generations to only produce juicy tender meat and to convert grain to meat at the most efficient speed or with the least amount of grain and not to breed a chicken resistant to harmful pathogens as they are kept in a controlled heated and cooled building from the time they are born until they are sent to slaughter.

If you read what Europeans are doing they are beginning to BAN feeding of wild birds. Romania and Turkey are killing stray dogs and cats and pigeons in the areas where they suspect the virus to be. Predators can pick up the virus from eating infected birds and spread it outside the area. Romania is talking about eliminating the wild birds who are migrating into their country. They are one of the major flyways for birds traveling from Russia to Africa.

Europe is about to ban the practice of "free range" chickens and all domestic flocks will have to be kept indoors and in buildings that are bird proof or tight enough to keep out all House Sparrows and Starlings who normally enter buildings to feed and get water with domestic birds. They just forced all commercial operations to keep their birds in small wired opening pens now this will change again.

This virus is spread by bird to bird contact with feces or by mouth or by breathing or by preening an infected bird. People can carry the disease from bird droppings in their yard and contaminate their shoes and then carry this into a commercial bird building and have this spread throughout the building in a matter of days if not hours.

They are talking of banning bird hunting for food in countries infected with the virus. You can shoot birds but you should pick them up with rubber gloves and bury or better yet burn them.

I don't fear the virus so much as the knee jerk governmental reactions we are about to see inflicted on the environment! When the average person believes that it would be good to kill every wild bird they see then this could take generations to undo the fear killing that will occur. KK

Keith,

Reading the actions being taken to staunch the spread of the virus reminds me of a few other similar activities, to wit:

Spitting in the ocean.
Bailing water with a tea strainer.
Pushing on a rope.
Swimming upstream.

That is not to belittle the impact of H5N1 on fowl and friend alike, just that the massively destructive efforts underway are totally futile, though it makes governments feel good that they are doing something, irrespective of whether it's productive or fruitful.

Given the contagion vectors for the virus, it will be spread world wide in a few weeks, months at the most...coming to an avian population near you. I suspect the best we can do is slow/stall the virus somewhat, which may buy time to better develop and produce vaccines and hope it mutates to a less virile form in the mean time.

Nature is not always nice.

Chuck

Since keith brought it up, and it does affect birds, just what is "bird flu?"
ALL flu is "bird" flu !!!! Flu is caused by the closeness of birds to pigs, as in SE Asia, where the two species interrelate in back yards. A goose or chicken scratches around for food in the yard, and guess where the pigs defecate? Wow. Voila. Birds then eat something they should not have. They then get eaten by the owners. The owners may or may not get sick. Some of them will even pass the bug on to other people. So far this strain of flu has not made the last stage, passable by human to human.
This is how All flu is passed. Is the current strain any worse than any others? Depends on who/what you read. I personally believe government is doing what it does best: Scare the heck out of you and then say "well, it could have been worse" when nothing happens. Think about it, no flu vaccine is being produced by our government to ward off this flu, only the common type has a vaccine.
Will our wild birds (including our bluebirds) die from it?
Most birds that do get it are geese, chickens, or ducks. If they migrate they CAN spread it, as apparently just happened in Europe. Can it spread to us? Maybe, but then if you remember that ALL flu comes through birds, this is just another flu scare. IN my humble opinion, any way. Enjoy your birdwatching.
Phil Berry

Hey Keith, you just hit one of my pet peeves. The "public" is always clamouring for the government to control disease by whatever means.

Many of these same people desiring to exterminate birds have a much greater chance of dying from heart disease than the flu. Yet, they refuse to take responsibility by losing weight, exercising, stop smoking, and changing their hectic lifestyles.

And here in the Midwest, some people are suggesting slaughtering birds because of the West Nile virus. Our media always announces any hospitalizations due to the disease. Hmmm, if it were as common as heart attacks, I doubt that the media would have the time to broadcast it.

Many species have done well in the last 50 years, thanks in part to various laws. I hope that the next 50 years don't see a decline. Just yesterday, hubby heard that the Endangered Species Act will probably be weakened. And as the energy glut continues, I'm afraid that the public will demand drillng everywhere.

Oops, this is getting too depressing - I'm going out to look at my beautiful, happy Bluebirds.

I hope that everyone has a beautiful, fall weekend.

Dottie Roseboom
Peoria IL

An alarming thing is happening right now in Europe. Entire populations of birds are being destroyed to avert flu. Panic is apparent in every news report. Migrating birds are going to be the death of all of us.

the best report I have come across was written nearly two years ago and is available at:
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/avian_influenza/en/

If interested, it is sensible and well written. While danger does exist, the media is in full panic mode.

Phil Berry

From: RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com [mailto:RBALTRUNAS"at"cs.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 9:02 AM
Subject: Spread of Avian Flu

Hi Everyone,

I haven't read everything on the Bludbird-L lately so please forgive me for any repetition. The spread of Avian Flu even if it doesn't mutate to human to human is still horrible and depressing.

First, it means anyone working with birds can come into contact with infected birds and become infected as well. Avian flu has a very high mortality rate. It also might mean contaminated equipment can spread the flu to other birds.

Second, as with any contagius disease, areas of congregation will spread the disease. This would make bird feeders and even bird baths strong sources of bird flu transmission.

Does anyone have anything positive to say about this horrible problem?

Ron
Brooksville, FL

From: mrtony8 [mailto:philip.berry"at"mchsi.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: Spread of Avian Flu

I will say it again. The media and government have done a wonderful job in scaring people to death over this supposed problem. Unless you raise chickens or ducks you have no worries. And I will throw in the fact that you need a few pigs aound your home to actually start the "bird flu" going. And as I have also stated previously, ALL flu is bird flu. It comes from ducks/geese/chickens mucking around in the pig sty. ALL of the infected people is SE Asia were pig/bird farmers.
This is an example of what beauracracy does besst: Scare the heck out of the population and whennopthing happens it is not their fault. They were prepared. Ha Ha.

Enjoy your birdwatching and bird feeding. this is ridiculous.

Phil Berry
Gulf Breeze, Florida

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
The reason experts are worried about this strain of avian flu is because it is lethal to MANY different species other than all bird species. Thailand or Laos feed the Endangered Asian Tigers raw chicken that are in their breeding program. They had 400 or more in the program and somehow fed them raw chicken infected with the bird flu and they lost more than 100 of these rare tigers in less than a week last year. This strain can kill some predators that will eat the dead and dying birds. Zoo predator animals in all of Asia are now only fed cooked chicken.

Most of the humans contracting this Avian flu are involved with killing and cleaning infected birds or handling raw meat or blood or eating or drinking raw or under cooked meat or blood infected with the virus.

Pilgrim Pride Poultry employs over 27,000 workers in the chicken and turkey industry in the USA. Tyson foods is bigger with over 130,000 workers in the meat industry. Brazil produces and exports to Europe and the rest of the world more chicken than the USA produces.

Twelve rare wild swans died on two different lakes in a single day in a EU country that normally only has 1,500 pass through a year.

They estimate that from Siberia to Turkey that already this year 10% of the bar headed geese that migrate on to Africa have died because of bird flu.
Again what scares the experts is that ducks and geese are normally immune to all of the bird flu strains. Nobody is looking for little brown birds dead in the woods.

South Africa killed 14,000 ostriches recently that tested positive for a different less lethal strain of bird flu. Sweden again killed thousands of chickens this month with the less deadly form of Bird Flu. Yes bird flu is common and always will be.

Newcastle Disease is an old avian flu that is still deadly to domestic fowl but is carried by ducks and geese and has been around the world many times so the H5N1 virus will live on 30 years from now. There are empty chicken farms still contaminated with Newcastle Disease in California from 15 years ago.

The EU bird experts listed 16 different species of endangered birds that they expect to disappear from Europe and Asia simply because losing 10% of a small number of birds devastates the wild population making it harder for mates to find each other. Example in the USA only two wild condor chicks hatched this year and one died of West Nile Virus. This bird died of a virus that just made it to California this year. It should have lived, bred and raised young for 40 years.

The Parrot in England came from Suriname South America. There is a HUGE trade in birds around the world and many of these are wild caught and smuggled into various countries. There were 130 birds or so in the South American group with this Parrot, of many different species. This group was placed in Quarantine with another group of 260 birds from Taiwan of different cage bird species. The strain of H5N1 that killed the parrot was from a two year old strain of H5N1 Avian Flu from Mainland China. The British killed all of the more than 450 birds in that quarantine shelter.
Rare, common or endangered alike. This old strain is similar but different from all the strains now showing up in Europe. The old and new variations are just as deadly as the original. The Parrot died while the Chinese birds appeared to be healthy.

The United Arab Emirates is a very small oil rich Arab country. Royalty in these Arab countries hunt with raptors and it is a status symbol to have rare raptors gathered from all over the world in your hawk stable. In just the last month they have quarantined for a couple of weeks more than 100 hawks and falcons being brought in legally to this one tiny country.

Some joke about the House Sparrow and Starling carrying this disease but these ARE the most common species other than pigeons that carry disease between animal farms. These three species eat and drink right along side chickens and are some of the few birds who will enter buildings and then fly more than 5 miles to other farms. When you stop and feed pigeons in towns or cities, starlings and sparrows show up and eat and share any disease with the rest of the flock. When you feed ducks or geese at a city park again sparrows and starlings fight for the food. House Sparrows and Starlings eat and drink with your dog or horses or cows or even your mink. House Sparrows and Tree Swallows use feathers in their nests that usually come from farm animals.

Europe is the only other continent that feed wild birds on the same scale as we do here in North America. As this spreads through the poultry industry in Europe the disease control and the bans on hunting and feeding of wild birds will probably be what we will adopt in this country to stop or limit a disease that cannot be controlled in the wild bird population. KK

From: Linda
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: Spread of Avian Flu

Today, on the news, the ticker at the bottom stated that a "parrot" has died of the bird flu. That's a scary thought, too. There are a lot of parrot pets in the United States. This must be a problem as Europe is destroying birds by the dozens. Linda in NW GA

From: mrtony8 [mailto:philip.berry"at"mchsi.com]
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: Spread of Avian Flu

this particular parrot was being held in quarantine in the UK along with 216 "soft bills" from taiwan. one of the taiwanese birds infected the parrot. hardly what i would call a problem. these unusual circumstances wont likely be duplicated.
Phil Berry

From: Tina Phillips [mailto:cbp6"at"cornell.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: Avian Flu in wild birds this month

For those looking for answers regarding avian flu and bird feeding, please visit the following Cornell Lab web sites:

http://www.birds.cornell.edu//avian_flu_link.html

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/pfw/News/avian_flu.htm

Tina Phillips
The Birdhouse Network
Cornell Lab of Ornithology

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
Reporting sick or dying birds: Wild songbirds with END (Exotic Newcastle
Disease) and any of the Avian Flu virus strains that they contract that become lethal will prevent the birds from flying in a normal manner. Both of these affect the lungs of the birds and as their lungs fill up with fluids they cannot get enough oxygen to sustain flight. Chickens and Turkeys will sit more than they walk and will fluff up their feathers and shake as if they are cold. They can have nasal or throat discharges and cough and sneeze. Remember this is the same basic flu virus and the same basic symptoms that people get in a less lethal form each year.

Salmonella and Botulism are infections in the birds digestive system and these can have similar symptoms and are also contagious.

There are parasites (intestinal worms) that the birds get that make them weak and sick.

The best bet is to monitor the news in nearby states on the web for these diseases. There is so much commercial poultry in the USA that it will normally crop up in a farmers flock and make the news. Poultry farmers lose some birds in each "house" EVERYDAY. IF they start losing them in higher numbers than normal they get some of them tested. For example it is common to lose 5% of young broiler chickens before they go to slaughter at 6 weeks.
15% to 25% of egg laying hens can die before they reach their 16th month when they are replaced with younger hens. Did you know that Connecticut has more chickens (4 million) in the state than people?

IF you find different species of birds sick or dying then you can report them to your county health inspector. It would be a good idea simply to call around and see how your inspector wants to handle something like this and how they need their samples of the dead birds preserved.

For example I found two dead White Throated Sparrows yesterday within about 50 feet from where we normally feed in winter. I had seen one this past week that would allow me to walk almost up to it before it would fly off but only go about 30 feet at a time. We have not even started feeding grain yet!

Now if we start finding other species dead or dying in our yard then it would not hurt to take one in for testing. The problem with backyard small species of birds is that a sick or slow bird often is just food for a feral cat. Very often birds that die overnight are picked up by nocturnal predators and eaten feathers and all.

Sharp Shinned Hawks love to eat House Finches with the eye disease because they cannot see the hawk coming until it is too late. Same goes for other sick birds. Anyway spend a little more time observing the birds at your feeders and bird baths this year and keep them cleaner than you normally would. KK

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
This past week Avian Flu was dropping into Israel, Cameroon, Congo, Denmark, India, Afghanistan and is constantly showing up in many of the original countries.

There are now two distinct strains showing up in people and there are now four different strains of this H5N1 that have mutated and are showing up in birds.

Normally they are finding this in large water fowl as these dead birds are seen more easily by people as they float in water or lie on open beaches for a long time but small warblers and sparrows often are eaten by predators before anyone finds them in weeds or forests. In Denmark this week the dead bird found with this flu strain was a Turkey Vulture. A couple of house cats have died from eating sick pigeons and one dog. Feral hogs just love to eat dead birds and they have an incredible nose for finding food.

They expect this flu to come into Alaska in the next few months. They will try to test 26 different species of birds coming into Alaska that are known to winter across Asia. They will be testing warblers to water fowl and expect to test some 100,000 different birds. Mountain bluebirds and Tree Swallows that nest in Alaska this summer will winter all the way into Central America. Myrna Pearman in Alberta, Canada saw FLOCKS of Mountain Bluebirds this week even though they have 8" of snow still.

Extreme panic is taking over the mind set of people in many of these countries. The drop in sales of poultry in Europe has had them cut off all contracts of USA imported poultry products which has devastated the perceived value of the large publicly traded poultry producers in the US.
The top two US producers have seen their stock value drop by 50% since November. Brazil exports more tons of chicken to Europe and Asia than does the USA.

Europe is trying to get their producers to cut production of eggs and chicks by 25%>35%. We raise 9 billion chickens and turkey a year in the USA. You simply cannot cut off 25% of the small farmers who grow these chickens for a few years and then go back into business. Can you imagine trying to produce enough vaccine and trying to hire and train enough people to give each one of these birds a shot:-)) Drug suppliers also need to gear up to produce vaccine for each of the 4 strains.

This drop in poultry production is affecting the sales of grain and or types of grain sold. Countries and entire farming communities are shifting production of meat to hogs and cattle and increased sales of fish are shifting these industries almost over night! It takes more grain and farm land to produce a pound of beef or pork than it does chicken. A HUGE percentage of the world's population will not eat Pork or Beef for religious reasons.

Precautions in the poultry industry. Pilgrim's Pride Industries the #2 producer behind Tyson's will not allow their employee's that work with live chickens to own pet birds or have backyard poultry at their house. You can carry a virus from a pet bird into a poultry house on your clothing or shoes or on your body and infect the entire flock. They have set up sanitation stations at each farm where they can disinfect delivery trucks coming and going between farms.

When this virus arrives in the USA and if it involves species that nest in boxes or come to bird feeders then we will need to practice better hygiene especially if you own pet birds or own flocks of poultry or pigeons. Birds that flock together in roosts or feed or drink together like House Sparrows, Starlings and even Purple Martins will have the disease show up more readily in your area than those that nest and live a solitary life in remote areas.

I would like to know how this disease is affecting the sales of nestboxes, bird feeders and wild bird seed in Europe!!!! The rest of the world does not really feed wild birds as they cannot waste grain on them or they don't have the money to buy grain for wild birds.

The USA is so worried about every lawsuit it makes me wonder how city, state and county government will react to the bird flu and if this will affect nestbox trails on public lands. We were forced to remove bee hives due to fear of distant neighbors on our street. How will neighbors react to large Purple Martin colonies? People freaked out in my area every time a dead bird was found when West Nile Virus made the news daily and moved through East Texas.

The Hanta Virus was a big deal in the news for a while and is something that nestbox monitors need to know about if Deer Mice and White Footed Mice use your nestboxes in the Southwest and a few other spots. The Fear of Avian Flu is going to be hard to overcome in our society. KK

Indiana is having a Summit on the bird flu and making plans as to what our
government will do in a worst case scenario. One of the Items for
discussion is feeding birds.

I decided that if the bird flu gets to the U.S. I won't feed the birds
anymore or check my nest boxes. However, I normally wear a mask and gloves
now when refilling feeders or checking boxes.

I'm not particularly concerned about the regular bird flu as they do have the Tamiflu vaccine now.

But President Bush said to start stocking up and being prepared.

My husband and I decided to start stocking up on food and I started last night by buying bags of brown rice, coffee, tea and extra virgin olive oil.
We made a list of how much we would need for at least six months.

Six months was the estimate by the CDC for a vaccine to be developed if the bird flu went human to human.

We live in the sticks and have our own lake and a pond also. So I could
take water out of the lake and boil it to use. My guys are hunters so I
have a freezer full of venison and lots of deer in the woods and wild turkeys.

We have power outages here in Brown County frequently as it's heavily
wooded and trees fall on the lines. We have a generator that will run our
whole house but haven't had to use it - yet. That's the only thing I can't
figure out is how to store up gas.

Let's pray that the human to human bird flu doesn't happen.

....

Dottie, Hickory Hollow
Brown County, Indiana

This is an anti-biotic that shows some promise when used right when a person gets infected with any flu virus or other types of infections. It is not an anti virus vaccine that will prevent you from getting infected with the virus it only helps your body to fight the infections that go along with the flu.

This is interesting because many countries are vilifying the company that produces this drug for not producing more of it....This is made from the blooms or seed pods actually of a tree/bush called the Star Anise it is a very similar species to the shrub/tree that produces the spice Anise only it is a different species of plant.

They are only so many acres of this planted in the world today as until now it had a limited value and it takes nines years to go from a cutting to a blooming thus drug producing mature plant. I believe it only grows in the tropics and must be hand harvested at the right time. The entire crop of seeds this year was bought up in a matter of weeks. Keith Kridler

Hi friends,

The spread of Avian flu and what it may come to is a direct result of human activity.

Down here in Florida we have it at its worst extremes, but it is worldwide. Humans multiply, and multiply and multiply. They develop, develop and develop. The overriding values are making money and creating economic assets.

Where there were once thousands of lakes across the lands, there are only hundreds as farms, shopping malls, houses, airports and highways now cover them.

The poor birds must concentrate into the remaining lakes and of course this makes the transmission of disease easier and certain. I'm sorry to say that even bird feeders and baths can do the same thing.

Mass production of birds as food is another abuse. In the US, we have now gotten to factory farms where it is routine to raise birds in a hell of suffering. Worst yet for heartless humans, these farms routinely abuse anitibiotics, administering them to birds to prevent disease in the filthy farm buildings. This will eventually breed antibiotic resistant or immune bacteria to be added to Avian flu!

A new way of looking at life on Earth is needed. One vital step would be for people to overcome cultural momentum and realize that animal protein is not essential for survival. Eating no meat or a small amount is something that the healthiest people on Earth do. Americans eat on the average 3-5+ times the meat of average humans. Cutting down or eliminating meat is healthy, humane and a way to reduce future microbial attacks.

Ron
Brooksville, FL

Here also where every inch of ground is being developed. In years past, I could go down the road to a farmer's field and pick all the veggies I needed to can or freeze. Now there are housing and business developements on those farms.

However, Indiana has lots of lakes and ponds due to each housing or business development has to have a pond or ponds depending on the size of the development. Of course, I wonder what is draining off into those ponds as it is all landscapped to the max.

My BB's are looking for more Gourmet Bird Delight so I must get to making a batch. One of our local stores sells mealworms so, if my husband drives out to get the paper--I'm going to have him pick up a box. (We can't get the daily paper delivered here in the sticks where we live.)

Hopefully, we can get out with all the snow we have and still coming done. He may not want to get the tractor out as it's supposed to go up to the 40's tomorrow. Strange weather.

Dottie, Hickory Hollow
Brown County, Indiana

We're already seeing indications of fear in our neighborhood. The houses on my side of the street back up to a public walking trail, which runs along a small area designated as a marshland preserve. It consists of a creek lined with trees and some open, grassy areas. Lots of birds hang out there.

Several of the homes along this preserve have seed feeders and hummingbirds feeders to attract the birds to our gardens. Someone left a xeroxed message at our doors, describing the precautions necessary to prevent spreading the Avian flu. It consisted of instructions like "set up a liqud disinfecting area to walk through with your work boots", so I assume it was meant for poultry farmers.

I had already decided to take down my feeders and bird bath when the flu arrives. I did the same last spring with the West Nile Virus after a couple of infected birds were found in the county. With the creek and preserve here, the birds don't really need extra feed in the summer and they did well last year with out my help. The winter is the time when they seem to need help the most, especially the hummingbirds.

Sure hope it doesn't happen, although it seems inevitable now. I have a couple of cases of bottled water stored, and I'm stocking up on pasta (since I'm married to an Italian). I don't know if we could survive for six months, but maybe a couple of weeks!

Barbara in Cloverdale, CA

In a message dated 3/21/2006 8:03:39 AM Pacific Standard Time, yumyumkatts"at"voyager.net writes:

Indiana has lots of lakes and ponds due to each housing or business development has to have a pond or ponds depending on the size of the development. Of course, I wonder what is draining off into those ponds as it is all landscapped to the max.

These are drainage ponds. All kinds of road filth, pesiticides, fertilizers etc go into them. We have thousands of these in Florida and few birds use them as the vegetation like Cattails is for water cleaning. Moorehens and Red Winged blackbirds are about all I see in these.

Hi all,

I think we're getting too paranoid too early. From what I've read, every single person who has contracted Avian flu, everywhere in the world has had domestic poultry, ducks, or geese that were exposed to wild birds. Anyone correct me if I'm wrong. This could be another Y2K scare. If I remember correctly, and as I think Phil Barry has mentioned, since pigs share a lot of DNA with humans, there is some concern that if a pig contracts Avian flu and the virus mutates in the pig it might be a form more transmissible to and between humans. Also, if a human with a different strain off flu is exposed to avian flu, the two different strains could share genetic material and mutate into a form transmissible between humans.

It's just my opinion, and I'm not recommending that people don't be sensible and cautious. The worst thing in the world would be for people to start killing or neglecting songbirds out of panic over avian flu.

Tamiflu (oseltamivir) is a neuraminidase inhibitor; it blocks the action of viral enzymes. The WHO says it is effective against the strain that is now hitting Vietnam and Thailand and has been used has been used effectively in other strains of bird flu. In the Netherlands, in 2003, when 1,000 people were infected with the H7N7 strain, the drug proved to be very effective.

But, as KK mentioned, if a pandemic did occur, we'd be six months behind in gearing up production and by then it would have probably run its course.
There are already thousands of on-line pharmacies "claiming" to have Tamiflu and herbal avian flu cures. Buyers beware! What a complicated world. There is also an equal chance that the virus could mutate at any time into a less virulent strain, or a strain Tamiflu has no effect on.

Rob Barron

As hordes of folks write and talk about their fear of avian flu, millions of others are writing and talking about animal rights. They choose to buy only 'free range' chickens, exactly the birds most likely to become infected.

Can't win for losin' ...

Take care,

R J 'Tree' Greenwood
Catlett VA

have ponds and streams, too, and that concerns me. Because I have 3 geese and a duck and wild geese and ducks land here - they tend to be carriers in infected populations. Not to mention the herons, killdeer, snipes and other water-loving birds. They're known to infect the water itself. People in rural areas are actually at the highest risk for bird flu exposures. My dog isn't allowed out without us, but he's prone to eating duck poop he finds in
the yard. I'm just sick over this. All the wild turkeys in my woods . . .
so much conservation gone to hades. The bluebirds, the wood ducks, the
flocks of Canada geese . . .

I've seriously looked into the possibility of immunizing my geese and duck, as there seems to be an immunization that is looking promising for poultry.

I've read where a bird flu must be contained within 3 years to effectively stop it and China, as usual, didn't contain squat and let this brew for 10.
The whole world appears to be paying for it now.

Whether it will mutate into a pandemic is still unknown. Tamiflu isn't
seeming to put much of a dent in this strain, and it has to be taken within
48 hours of symptoms to minimize symptoms of any flu anyway. Even if it doesn't mutate to pandemic proportions, we still have a mess that will kill off wildlife, livestock, pets and some people.

Pretty horrifying.

Paul Kilduff
Baltimore MD

I am making sure to have a supply of Zicam. It reduces symptoms of the viruses of the common cold (when used as directed) and I think it's worth at least trying against some of these more exotic influenza virus strains. In case bird flu does recombine in such a way that a deadly pandemic or epidemic occurs, I'm planning on using Zicam to, I hope, ameliorate the symptoms and save lives of me and those close to me.... Balloon-bursting welcomed.

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
This is a very serious subject not so much right now from a Human Health stand point but how this Flu Scare will affect how we as nestbox monitors should conduct nestbox checks for our own health and then the more important aspect as to how we will deal with the scared people where we have placed nestboxes on their land! Also in public parks or boxes on large company land where someone else would be at a perceived risk from our trails or our birds.

Will we be allowed to have nestboxes at elementary schools and take a class of children to look in the boxes and hold old nests? Petting Zoos are sometimes outlawed at county fairs due to the risk of spreading disease from farm animals to humans. How does Cornell plan on educating all of their school room bird feeding stations they have set up at schools across the country?

We had two brave folks on the list yesterday reply that they will quit feeding birds/and or may quit checking nestboxes when it appeared in their area. It would help to take a poll of this list to see if the most dedicated bluebirders will continue to encourage birds into close contact with us!
Will you allow your young children or grand children to open nestboxes if the flu virus is confirmed in your area?

Yesterday 5 young women, girls actually in Azerbazan (SP) died who worked pulling feathers off of dead swans for pillows. Seven of the eleven girls who worked in the same room got sick last week and five of them died of H5N1 flu contracted from close contact with these birds who preen their feathers and spread the virus on their feathers. H5N1 was confirmed in Pakistan in two different areas yesterday. Most people who die in many of these countries NEVER see a doctor. There are probably MANY people and birds out there that were exposed to this and NEVER had any reaction so were never tested.

In America a LOT of disease testing is done through blood donation centers and they tracked the spread of West Nile Virus in the human population and still do everytime you donate a pint of blood.

This Avian Flu virus can survive a couple of weeks, possibly a month in feces that are kept moist. Example: Droppings in the old nest from a nestbox. It can possibly survive a couple of weeks under ideal conditions on a feather if say a Tree Swallow or House Sparrow picks up a feather coated with the virus that blows out of a manure spreader or one that comes off of a sick bird just as they often carry mites from this feather into their nests. They or their young may or may not get infected from diseased feathers. If infected they may or may not have a fatal reaction. They may or may not become a carrier and infect other birds with their feces or by preening. Example: The way the Finch Eye disease spreads in a population of birds who use the same bird feeder. Some get infected and some don't.

All I know is that it is common for entire broods of bluebirds and Tree Swallows to die in the nest but nestbox landlords will panic if Avian Flu is known to be in their region and will jump to conclusions if their birds die of hypothermia!!!!

There was never any way that any country could contain or stop the spread of any flu strain. Doctors treat the symptoms and vaccines help but you still become a carrier of the virus and multiple flu strains travel around the world continuously until they infect everyone who is susceptible to that particular strain.

It would be nice if Cher would set up a questionnaire on this topic that a majority of us could respond to so that we could show Cornell how most of us will react. They probably already have a media plan to combat the panic that will follow the flood of negative news that will come when the first infected birds show up in the USA or Canada. Maybe another questionnaire for the birdhouse network to canvas those of us who are more aware of this issue so that we can gauge how the public will react.

For those who require volunteers at banding stations and handle many species of wild birds will volunteers fail to show up to help? Will gloves be required to work with wild birds in the future? KK

OOOOOOOOh!
You make a good point. I have several small flocks of Canada Geese here in my back yard (golf course). We come close to contact nearly every day. They are kind of independent in that they won't bother anyone if they are not bothered, but I would hate to see any of them killed because someone got jittery about the slight possibility (but real, nonetheless) of cross-infection of flu --- and let me remind us that ALL flu is BIRD FLU.
Phil Berry
Gulf Breeze, Florida

Hi All,

We had a small discussion a while ago about how an ingredient added to Grapefruit Seed Extract kills a high percentage of viruses. This was mentioned in a bird care book. The discussion led to a chemical additive and not the GSE itself. It then led to that this chemical is in Handiwipes made by Clorox and Lysol. These might help in cleaning and killing Avian flu.

I might add that Prevention magazine mentioned a small study in which Flu sufferers were divided into 2 groups. One was given Elderberry Extract and the other placebo. The Elderberry extract group got over the flu in half the time. This was a small study, but its something to take that might not just help with any flu. It could save a life. Maybe.

Ron
Brooksville, FL

How many other species of birds do you see following you around like that? These birds move to other places during the migration parts of the year and are exposed to humans. I would think a big majority of them have seen a human, even though some don't migrate.

Whatever their reason, they display traits that most species do not. So, whatever their reason is, it is adorable.

I know it did not take mine very long to learn to sit in the tree in the backyard and wait for me to bring raisins to the feeder!

Evelyn, Dehli, LA

From: Bet Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 1:24 PM
Subject: avian flu

Maybe there is something wrong with me, but I am not even slightly concerned about bird flu at this point. I also didn’t get concerned about SARS. I wasn’t expecting a terrorist attack in rural New England even though I was driving through NY on 9/11. I never worried about West Nile either. Maybe because I felt these things are not under my control and currently do not pose an imminent, serious threat. Of course the responsible agencies need to do everything they can to PREVENT them from becoming real and present dangers.

I do worry about getting Lyme disease again.

Bet from CT

From: David Gwin [mailto:David.Gwin"at"cityofcarrollton.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 1:55 PM
Subject: RE: avian flu

Hi, Bet:

Amen! ... I couldn't have said it better myself! FYI ... here in my neck of the woods, I am more worried about what will become of the Golden-Cheeked Warbler and the Black-Capped Vireo if we don't stop developing/destroying their habitat!

I for one have absolutely no intention of letting all the hard work and resources I have put into my Trails fall apart over a flu scare ... real or otherwise! Further, 100% of my Trails are located in or very near major urban areas and without my help all of the native cavity-nesting species that I have worked for many years to re-establish and help would be inundated and run off by millions of HOSPs and EUSTs. The cut and hide option is just not one I am willing to consider!

I come from a long line of very stubborn and hard-headed Okies and the thought of not getting up every day and facing life full-on ... is not a life I am willing to live! Ever since Y2K and 9/11, I have noticed that Americans have become very fearful and alarmist ... what ever happened to the American backbone and spirit that sent the British back to Europe, vaccinated the world against polio, conquered Hitler's tyranny, sent a man to the moon, etc.?

Sorry ... I think I am starting to hear a hundreds of flags waving in the wind and fireworks bursting overhead ...

Have a great day,
David

From: mrtony8 [mailto:philip.berry"at"mchsi.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: avian flu

"Bird Flu" and all the gov't warnings should be heeded but not to the point of panic. They have to overplay it and frighten us because of incidents like Katrina. they were portrayed as weak and helpless in it's aftermath, and they can not afford to be caught asleep here. After all, they have this need to be re-elected. So they cry wolf, and when the wolf goes elsewhere, or dies, they are off the hook, and can collectively sigh a sigh of relief.
Phil Berry

I agree the American media in particular seems to be enjoying creating scenarios of sensationalizing panic (the British and other media seem to be taking it more logically, example http://www.inform.kz/showarticle.php?lang=eng&id=140505). However, on the
other hand this is a real danger.

I fear, myself, because I'm at the top of the list of at-risk with the way
my land is set up and the birds it attracts, both domestic and wild. I
literally have geese and ducks waddling all over my yard (again, both domestic and wild), and my house is between two farm ponds, about 100' away, both front and back. Of course, when summer comes they'll take further out to the fields. I've written the USDA for recommendations how to best safeguard my property, animals and family and plan to talk to the local extension office.

For now my bluebird boxes stay open and observed. I have a pair nest-building right now. If they go from beloved nature to biological hazard with no safe way of monitoring them (according to science, not media), then my family's safety comes first, period.

Autumn

I only have nestboxes in my back yard, so I don't have to be concerned about a trail on public land causing panic. Although, as I said in a former post, I've already had an "anonymous" neighbor leave literature at my door concerning bird flu!

I'm more concerned about the health of the birds, where we know the Avian Flu is easily spread. So far, it only spreads to humans through direct contact with infected birds, so it shouldn't be a big concern unless it mutates to human-human. If that happens, I'll stay away from people.

I stopped feeding birds in my yard a couple of times because I didn't want to contribute to bird disease through my feeders; once was a year when I saw the House Finch Eye Disease and last year we had a spell of West Nile Virus in our area. My neighbor found three dead Pine Siskins, and we all took our feeders down for a while. The Pine Siskins just migrate through here and once they were gone, we saw no more sick or dead birds. Feeding the birds in the summer is mostly for my enjoyment; in the winter it's more to help the birds.

I'll keep up my nestboxes as long as I'm able to monitor them. The WEBL need all the help they can get, and I believe normal sanitation habits should be sufficient protection, at least for the time being.

Still no nesting activity in my yard, so either the birds are really late getting started, or they decided to nest elsewhere this year.

Barbara in Cloverdale, CA

Nothing is ever accomplished by panicking. As others have said, staying informed and educated is the best precaution we can take right now.

I apologize in advance if any of the following is repetitious. I haven't had the time to read each and every post made on this subject.

The fact that medical science has made great strides in disease control should not lull us into a sense of complacency. At the beginning of World War I, medical science was thought to have made great strides in conquering disease. People in general were so confident that one popular Ladies magazine suggested that American homes no longer needed a "parlor" for laying out the dead, and suggested that the "parlor" should now be called the "living room".

Then came the Spanish Flu.

The Spanish Flu was highly virulent, easily spread from person to person. It struck its victims with amazing speed, many of them dying within hours. Although, thanks to the finding of a Spanish Flu victim frozen in perma-frost in Alaska in 1997, scientists have been able to identify and sequence most of the genes of that virus, they still do not understand what made it such a killer. Apparently, however, it was related to a flu virus that affects both pigs and birds.

The pig is believed to be able to host viruses that affect ducks and chickens, as well as those that affect humans. The concern is, if a pig becomes infected with both types of viruses, that the genes of the two strains can become mixed together - mutate, if you will - into a new strain, to which humans have no immunity.

According to "Science and Nature" journal, the current bird virus primarily infects cells deep in the human lung, which may account for the fact that it is not easily spread from person to person. But what if this virus should mutate, and become more virulent? The good news is that antibiotics can reduce the death rate from secondary bacterial pneumonias; there are medications effective against some strains of flu; immunizations can be helpful if the correct strains are identified and the immunizations can be produced in time.

The bad news?

The Spanish Flu had an estimated mortality rate of anywhere from 1.1% to 5%. The Avian Flu has been estimated to have a mortality rate of anywhere from 50% to 80%. Doctors still do not know of any "cure" for a powerful virus, and immunization programs are not always successful, or cannot always be produced in time.

Autumn makes a good point about not expecting governments to be able to protect us. Author John Barry says in his book "The Great Influenza", "Back then scientists fully comprehended the threat’s magnitude, knew how to cure many secondary bacterial pneumonias, and gave public-health advice that would have saved tens of thousands of American lives.
Politicians ignored that advice."

So, does this mean we should all stop monitoring nestboxes and bring in our bird feeders out of fear? I don't think anyone here believes that.
Will there come a time when we might have to take extra precautions, or alter our behavior in some way? Maybe. When that time comes, hopefully we'll know it.

Cher - (who is not a scientist)

http://www.bto.org/ringing/diseases-from-birds.doc

Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant Texas
The above link gives advice to people who band birds in the UK. This was
released before they found the swan with H5N1 in Scotland last week. The BTO
also has released information sheets for those who feed birds or provide
nestboxes.

KKeith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas
This information is provided worldwide on the BTO's WebPages. It is mostly common sense stuff but being reminded that washing hands is helpful but few soaps or "wet wipes" actually kill viruses and protecting cuts on hands is important when handling birds that might be infected. Count how many times you touch your face/rub your eyes with your hands during the next few
hours:-))

NOTICE in the document that the virus is going to be in the feces of infected birds. Nestbox monitors might/will need to be more cautious cleaning out old bird nests when the H5N1 is in your area. We might want to spray down old nests before removing them to stop dust and feces from going airborne as we pull out the nests. For the areas in the USA with the Hanta Virus in old deer mice nests they recommended using a water/soap/weak bleach solution and you were supposed to wet the nest down wait X number of minutes and then carefully remove the now soaked mouse nest and dispose of it in a plastic bag.

Effective immediately the BTO has stopped all bird banding operations in a wide area of Scotland out from the area where the dead swan was found.
Remember it took about 10 days from the time this swan was found to get it picked up and tested. (How far do Purple Martins and Hummingbirds migrate in 10 days?)

I guess what worries me the most about this hitting in the USA is what I perceive to be a total lack of real information coming out of the USDA and or universities. The UK has had leaflets printed and ready now for almost two years. Their WebPages are updated daily.

Kentucky Fried Chicken and other chicken restaurants in the USA have filmed add campaigns two years ago and are ready to release them when H5N1 is confirmed in North America to protect their industry from a huge monetary hit if people quit eating poultry.

Water fowl are more likely it seems to be infected and travel to North America first. The Swan in Scotland was partially eaten by a predator before it was picked up. The virus is transmitted to a bird's feathers when they preen or rub their eyes or nasal discharges on their feathers. In North America, Tree Swallows and House Sparrows often pick up all feathers that they find blowing around near their nestboxes and add them to their nests.

If you do a search of House Sparrows on the BTO web site you will see that they have in place a huge monitoring program for these birds that track egg clutch sizes, losses of eggs, losses of nestlings and successful fledge rates for these birds dating back to 1975. IF Avian Flu shows up in House Sparrow nests they will be able to track any increase in losses to these sparrows.

The current danger right now with bird banders and nestbox monitors in Europe and where ever the virus is present in wild birds would be picking up the virus in your nestboxes and bringing it home and infecting your cage birds or bringing the virus into a poultry farm from infected clothes or tools.

The major out break in poultry in France a couple of months back was traced back to newspaper photographers who swarmed the swamp/marsh where dead ducks tested positive for the H5N1 virus and then went and entered nearby poultry farms to interview local farmers and take pictures of their birds. The virus was tracked in on the rubber boots the camera men wore they believe but even car tires and camera equipment can carry the virus.

I believe there will be nothing to fear in the USA because we have the most experienced lawyers in the world when it comes to class action suits and elected officials have lots of experience creating investigative enquiries into why we are not better informed or prepared and who we should blame for different issues that will be related to H5N1 when it arrives. KK

From: RCRCD [mailto:rcrcd"at"earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 2:18 PM
Subject: Avian Flu question

Hi All,
I'm a new list member, My name is Erin Snyder I work for the Riverside-Corona Resource Conservation District, among other duties I coordinate our volunteer bluebird nestbox monitoring program. We are in our 6th year and have between 50-100 bluebird boxes in the Santa Ana River valley in southern California.
My question is; our risk management/insurance company has expressed real concern over the possibility of volunteers being exposed to avian flu in the course of nestbox monitoring. We have starting providing gloves and masks for volunteers that will be handling nests and/or dead birds. We also bag any dead birds (often they are then handed over for west Nile virus testing). Does anyone out there have any other safety protocols to be used in situations like this?
Thanks so much,
Erin Snyder
952-683-7691 ext. 207

From: Evelyn Cooper [mailto:emcooper"at"bayou.com]
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: Avian Flu question

It was suggested that we spray the old nests down with water before removing. That keeps down dry feces flying around. I think the dry feces is what they are most worried about . I plan to stand on a stool so I will be above the nestbox and to the side when I drag it out.

I always were plastic disposable gloves and a mask.

Evelyn, LA

From: Tina Phillips [mailto:cbp6"at"cornell.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: Avian Flu question

Greetings,

Here is the official statement right now from the Cornell Lab of Ornithology. Please keep in mind that information can change in response to new information. Despite some recent media coverage, the situation has not changed regarding the highly pathogenic avian influenza (HPAI H5N1). The virus has not been found in North America, nor have there been any well-documented cased of transmission between wild birds and humans.

Is it dangerous to watch birds or feed birds?

No, it is not dangerous. It is safe to keep birding, to attract and feed birds in your yard, and to monitor nest boxes. In general, waterfowl and shorebirds seem to be most affected by outbreaks, rather than feeder birds such as songbirds, probably because the virus spreads from one bird to another most easily through water.

As always, to avoid contracting any illness from wild birds, we recommend that you wash your hands thoroughly after handling bird feeders, bird nests, birdbaths, or water contaminated by bird feces. Using disposable gloves or double plastic bags to move a dead bird is a good idea. These precautions will help keep you safe against harmful germs including HPAI H5N1, should it arrive among our nesting birds.

If HPAI H5N1 does make it to North America, we are concerned about the impact the virus will have on bird populations. To date, it has been a pandemic for birds, not people. Monitoring programs, such as The Birdhouse Network, will become even more important as they will allow us to assess the impact of H5N1 on bird populations.

If you'd like to read the interim guidelines from the USGS as to potential precautions for those who handle birds, please visit this web page:
http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/publications/wildlife_health_bulletins/WHB_05_03.jsp

The Birdhouse Network Staff
Cornell Lab of Ornithology

Hello EveryBIRDie!

Our ABC-affiliate TV Station has a promo
announcement of "Fatal Contact: Bird Flu
in America" for Tuesday, May 9, at 8/7c.

Checking the TV Guide on the Internet, I
find that there's also another program,
"Bird Flu: Fact or Fiction," appearing on
FNC [Fox News Channel] at a different time.

Check your local TV Guide - hard copy or
Internet - for stations/times in your area.

Have a good day!
_
( '<
/ ) )
/ / "

Stan

The CDC said it would take an estimated six months to develop a vaccine
for the bird to human flu if it happens. Until the vaccine is
developed,
we would be on our own to fend for ourselves--remember New Orleans?

Also, this past week, the news said the government has come up with a
worse case scenario in the event of the bird to human flu and that is
they
estimate up to two million people would die from the flu and 40% of the
workforce would be home sick. All flights, etc., would be cancelled and
barred from the U.S. Bush has already said he would call out the troops
if
needed.

I also read an article this week by an expert in this matter that said we
most likely will not received the bird flu in 2006 in the U.S. from
migrating birds but not to let down our guard as it will happen.

Let's all pray that it will not happen as I can only imagine what will
happen to our birds if the bird flu does get to the U.S.

Dottie, Hickory Hollow
Brown County, Indiana

From: SCooke [mailto:ncw001"at"nc.rr.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 7:18 AM
Subject: Avian flu website-Oops, forgot to include the link the first time

Here's a website that might be of interest to anyone keeping up with the threat of Avian flu.
http://www.pandemicflu.gov/

Sharon

From: Robert Barron [mailto:rebarron"at"gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 10:46 PM
Subject: Avian flu

I didn't get to watch the avian flu shows on TV last night but there was some encouraging news in the scientific publications today. The fear that Eurasian migratory birds that overwinter in Africa would return to Europe carrying the virus with a vengeance didn't materialize. Not one case of the A(HN51) virus was found in thousands (7,500) of bird blood samples conducted in Africa by Wetlands International this (our) winter, and the last one of a few cases detected in Europe was in a Grebe in Denmark on April 28. Scientists are equating it to the Y2K scare and saying that so far migration has played no role in the spread of the virus. Last week the Netherlands and Switzerland rescinded orders that poultry be kept indoors and France is considering it.Lets keep our fingers crossed.
Rob Barron

From: Bet Zimmerman [mailto:ezdz"at"charter.net]
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 2:26 PM
Subject: OT: Moldy grain believed linked to duck deaths

Probably some people were freaking out, thinking it was avian flu

Bet from CT

*** from http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/12/14/ducks.reut/index.html

SALMON, Idaho (Reuters) -- Two thousand mallard ducks in Idaho likely died after they ate moldy grain and contracted a fatal infection, scientists said Thursday. Paul Slota, a wildlife expert with the U.S. Geological Survey's National Wildlife Health Center, said a fungal infection known as aspergillosis was the likely killer. "The results are certainly consistent with that diagnosis," Slota said.

Dave Parrish, regional supervisor for the Idaho Department of Fish and Game, said further tests would be conducted.
The preliminary finding eased fears that the massive mallard die-off, which experts say is unprecedented in Idaho, was linked to bird flu.
Birds can contract aspergillosis after feeding on waste grain and silage pits during bad weather, according to the National Wildlife Health Center.
Large-scale, rapid die-offs among waterfowl have chiefly affected mallards, it said.

An estimated 2,000 mallards died between Friday and Wednesday near the agricultural community of Burley, about 150 miles southeast of Boise.
State fish and game officers Wednesday retrieved carcasses from a stream clogged with dead and dying mallards.

The stream is surrounded by farmland and a cattle feedlot, potential sources of the moldy grain, officials said.
Concerns over the deadly H5N1 strain of bird flu and an extensive national monitoring network prompted officials to submit samples from Idaho to labs specializing in detecting avian influenza and drew the U.S. Department of Homeland Security into the investigation.

A similar aspergillosis outbreak killed 500 mallards in Iowa in 2005, the wildlife health center said. Moldy grain was the culprit in that case. The disease is not contagious.

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