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Nest abandonment (Part 2)Also see Clean Nest or Abandoned? Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 07:35:04 -0700 (PDT) I posted a Message probably 3 weeks ago now about bluebirds who had begun
building a nest in the nest box I put (for the first time this year). There has Kathy Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 18:04:55 EDT I posted a Message probably 3 weeks ago now about bluebirds who had begun
building a nest in the nest box I put (for the first time this year). There has
been no activity since that date (as far as completing the nest). I don't think
it's complete based on pictures I've seen of other complete nests -- Not sure what your relative "time of year" is (there isn't any grass or pine straw available for our EABLs yet!!) but the blues do seem to make up about 1/2-3/4 of a nest, leave it alone for a while, then finish and start laying when they're good and ready. Last week chickadees were interested in the box, but they did not go in the
house, and there has been no activity since. What should I do if the g Do nothing! the chickadees are a native species, so it really is illegal to mess with their nest if they *do* take over that box. If the blues are still interested, they'll deal with it. If not, the 'dees are great fun to watch too! Rhonda Watts Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 17:06:20 EDT Hi Cyndi and All, Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 07:41:03 -0400 Hi All, My lone pair of bluebirds finally made a nest and it looked completed. I watched eagerly all weekend to see an egg, but instead noticed both the male and female bluebird peeking into the nestbox but not going in. I investigated and found moss and some small feathers in the nest. In my short 5 years of experience I have never seen anything in the bluebird nesting materials except pine needles. But I had also read on here that some of you have seen bluebirds taking feathers in the nest boxes. I usually see moss in Chickadee nest so thought maybe a chickadee was trying to take over the nestbox. Now it seems the Chickadee's have chosen another nestbox deep in the wooded area of my lot - along with a house wren in another box with 1 egg so far. I removed the moss and the EABL's still won't enter the box. I don't know if they will abandon the nest or not. Meanwhile, this weekend a second pair of EABL's has tried to inspect the 3 nestboxes. The fighting between the two males was ferocious, but with no apparent injuries to either. I don't know the outcome yet, but it would be nice if they both would nest in my yard. That would be a first! My question, should I remove any moss or feathers from the bluebird nestbox or the whole nest or wait and see? Any suggestions? Joyce, central Virginia Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 08:47:18 -0400 (EDT) Hi Joyce, Most of my Bluebirding was in Ohio and there sometimes Bluebirds spent several days after nest completion before laying the first egg. In your case the bluebirds are still defending the area so they will likely lay eggs soon. don't be too concerned about the fights between bluebirds since there is seldom any injury to them. they mostly grab each other with their legs and feet and just tumble around. they don't go after each other by pecking each other like sparrows do. Your removing the green moss from the bluebird nest should have little effect on weather or not the Bluebirds continue to use this box. I would suggest adding another box but you seem to have that covered already. Give it a few more warm days and perhaps the Bluebirds will finish nesting by laying eggs. Joe Huber Venice Fl. Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber hubertrap"at"webtv.net http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 06:07:40 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. Joyce, patience. As most of you know, I've been taking a photo series of five nestboxes which had claimstraws in the boxes. One of those boxes (Eastlake) had the nestcup just about finished on 3/28 but no eggs have been laid, yet. Another (Shappel) had the nestcup almost finished 4/5 but no eggs laid, yet. http://home.earthlink.net/~lviolett/claimstraws.html Several other nests on my trail seemed to be in a "hold" pattern. I'm confident the pairs will lay in those completed nests; perhaps they're waiting for slightly warmer weather. Joyce, why did you remove the moss? If the bluebirds put in the moss, why remove it? If the bluebirds abandoned the nest, and chickadees put in the moss, why remove it? The only objects I remove from the nest are things that could tangle nestlings. All those ribbons you see in the Shappel nestcup photo will be removed after the nestlings are about a week old. Joyce Sobey wrote: Hi All, My lone pair of bluebirds finally made a nest and it looked completed. I watched eagerly all weekend to see an egg, but instead noticed both the male and female bluebird peeking into the nestbox but not going in. I investigated and found moss and some small feathers in the nest. In my short 5 years of experience I have never seen anything in the bluebird nesting materials except pine needles. But I had also read on here that some of you have seen bluebirds taking feathers in the nest boxes. I usually see moss in Chickadee nest so thought maybe a chickadee was trying to take over the nestbox. I removed the moss and the EABL's still won't enter the box. I don't know if they will abandon the nest or not. My question, should I remove any moss or feathers from the bluebird nestbox or the whole nest or wait and see? Any suggestions? Joyce, central Virginia Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 09:12:33 -0700 There is no "usually" with these critters- each does its own thing, depending on weather, food supply, age of the nesting pair or, possibly, just whim! Leave the nests until the birds make up their minds. Even the presence of apparently abandoned eggs is not a sign to do anything. If you have plenty of boxes, leave everything as the birds have left it for at least a couple of weeks, if not longer. The birds that started the nest may come back or others may take the nest. It is early in the season, except for the deep south, and birds may have been interrupted for any number of reasons. So give them time to do their thing, then sit back and enjoy! Judy Mellin ----- Original Message ----- ... Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 07:17:09 -0500 Well, what started off to be my most promising EABB experience has turned out to be the most bewildering, disappointing, and puzzling experiences! I had previously posted that a pair had attempted building a nest in a wren house on our back deck. They stayed in our backyard (actually sitting on our railing of our deck alot of the time) for about a week. We could actually go to the window and watch them; as well as the male would fly up to the window and cling to a small ledge between the window panes of the top portion of the door. We had a terrible storm about 2 wks. ago, which after, the bluebirds chose a similar Petersen nestbox about 20 ft. from the deck. They both kept checking the house out. My husband watched a few mornings later, as the female with her mouth full of grass, continued to fly back and forth into the house. We didn't see her around for a day or so and assumed she was in the house laying the eggs. Mr. still stayed in the yard and came to feed on mealworms for a few days. I finally checked the nestbox last Sunday; the perfectly shaped cupped nest empty with no further sign of Mr. or Mrs. I have been advised they will return. Early this morning before it got light, I know I heard an EABB call; but so far no bb. How long should I wait to remove the nest; or should I remove it? I know it is just the beginning of the nesting season and hopefully feel they, or some other pair, will return before the end of the season. Still, it is disappointing to not see them out my back door. Disappointed Lee in Missouri
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 08:39:30 -0400 Give them a week or two. The pair (now incubating) in my yard waited a week after the nest was completed, another four or five days after all the eggs were laid (5) before beginning incubation. Weather being cool had something to do with it, I imagine. How's yours been? Randy Jones ----- Original Message ----- Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 12:35:07 -0400 ... Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 12:14:02 -0500 Hi, Just wondering if you might know why a mom and pop bluebird would stop feeding and abandon their young that are about to fly. They are not young bluebirds as they had 16 babies last year in 4 sets, whew, mealworms get expensive feeding that many :-). One baby is crippled in both legs but is regaining use of them now. I think maybe the crushed eggshells, etc. may be helping. The other 3 seem to be very healthy and growing strong in the past week. Would sincerely appreciate your advice. Jo Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 16:29:32 -0700 Once again, if we knew where you were located, we could probably give better information but birds abandon nests for many reasons, the main one being a drastic change in the weather- usually huge dips in temperature where that adults have to choose between keeping themselves or the young alive. Usually they choose to take care of themselves since they can renest and raise more young. Judy Mellin Hi, Just wondering if you might know why a mom and pop bluebird would stop
feeding and abandon their young that are about to fly. They are not young
bluebirds as they had 16 babies last year in 4 sets, whew, mealworms get
expensive feeding that many :-). One baby is crippled in both legs but is
regaining use of them now. I think maybe the crushed eggshells, etc. may be
helping. The other 3 seem to be very healthy and growing strong in the past
week. Would sincerely appreciate your Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 15:35:48 -0400 Hello Fellow Bluebird Lovers, I have two questions and would like to know if anyone has any guidance. I live in Maryland in a suburban neighborhood and my neighbor put up a blue bird box on the end of a fence that seperates our two yards. Unfortunately our yards are not that big so putting up the box in a big field was not an option. In addition, our driveways both run along the fence and right next to the box. Less than ideal, I know. But nonetheless, back in March a pair of blue birds started inspecting the box and then built a nest in the box, although they did not lay any eggs in the nest. That continued until just about a week ago now. Then the female disappeared. For a week the male would return to our neighborhood to feed on mealworms she put out for him on the driveway but now a week later he has disappeared too. I'm wondering if anyone has any idea what may have happened to them? I know
our suburban yards are less than ideal territory but they did go as far to And secondly, they left a completely built nest in the box; I'm wondering, should I advise her to remove the nest to encourage other BB's to hopefully return? Both of us enjoyed seeing them and are hoping for their return. Sincerely, John Castle Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 16:22:04 -0400 (EDT) Hello John and all, This sounds like a case of the Bluebirds moving to another nest location. Who knows why they choose one spot over another. They don't always choose the safest spot to nest but once they decide they are determined. I don't believe its necessary to touch the nest material in the abandoned box for of they need to suddenly return they will accept it like it is. Be sure another species hasn't moved into the box. Chances are the place these BLuebirds have moved to isn't as safe as the box by the drive and when something goes wrong they will return to continue nesting. There is always the second nest comming up for them and they often change to a new box. In the mean time see if you can work out something to make that box more predator proof in case they do return. Hope you have a good neighbor. Joe Huber Venice, Fl. Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 09:35:07 EDT For the past few weeks, I have been enjoying a pair of chickadees nesting in a chickadee/wren house with a 1 1/8" opening designed to keep out sparrows. On Saturday a pair of sparrows started to harrass them, trying to prevent them from entering the nest. They chased each other back and forth all day, and I figured the chickadees were feisty and protective enough to handle this. I was confident the sparrows could not enter the nest. On Sunday the sparrows were nowhere to be seen. Unfortunately there was no sign of the adult chickadees either. I saw no chickadees at the nest on Sunday or Monday. Absolutely no sign of them. I looked inside the nest and there a somewhere between 4 and 6 eggs I would say, well protected under a layer of moss. A lovely nest. Today is Wednesday and there is still NO sign of the parents. Have they abandoned their nest? Could aggressive behaviour by the sparrows really chase them away and cause them to give up on the nest? I am really puzzled ( and disheartened!). Megan in Kentucky
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 08:26:28 -0700 (PDT) Hello all, I have been lurking on the list for about 3 months. We have 5 bluebird boxes on 40 acres in Mt Hermon, LA ( n3058 w9018 ). One has 5 Carolina black-capped Chickadee nestlings about 12 days old. Three boxes have bluebird nests and 5 bluebird eggs a piece. One box is in a woody area with no activity yet. My problem is - one box (the first to have 5 eggs) has had eggs for over a month. This is a weekend camp and we are able to monitor the boxes every weekend. Anyway it got unseasonably cold about three weeks ago. Upon the next weekend when we checked all the boxes a box that had been empty now had 5 bluebird eggs. Would it be possible that the first next has been abandoned and they went to another box? Should I clean the box out? How long should I wait? Thanks, Rob Moorhead Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 10:57:01 -0500 Morning All, I am a new bluebirder. My first full nest this year and five lovely eggs. Unfortunately, the last egg was laid on 4/14, and they have not hatched. In fact I have not seen a bluebird around since 4/15. Has the nest been abandoned? There are no other birds hanging around it. What should I do? Thanks, Kyra Huddleston Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 19:09:45 -0400 Dear Fellow bluebirders: I have several questions and concerns. First of all, last Tuesday I looked in our box and found our bluebird couple to have one beautiful egg; I checked again on Thursday and found two. On Sunday morning I noticed 2 tree swallows sitting on the box - unheard of when the female is sitting!!! Finally the male came to chase them away, but they overwhelmed him and he flew away. No female around. I was so upset. I checked out the box (with the swallows sweeping down at me) and found the nest undisturbed but only one egg. I'm thinking a hawk may have gotten the female since we've put the box on an 8 foot galvanized pipe that my husband has waxed. But what would have taken just one egg and left the other (and the nest) alone? Secondly, the swallows were around for about 5 days, but have shown no
interest in nesting. Also, I will tell you that I did not clean out the box - I
thought that if the swallows were sitting in there, the accomodations must be
okay. But since they've left, another bluebird pair have found the box. He goes
in and out frequently. My second question is this - if there is a bluebird nest
in there already, will another pair nest in it, or should I clean the box out
and allow the thanks for your help! Kelley Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 19:25:06 -0400 We were so excited this spring when we had blue birds make a nest in our blue bird house. Then the eggs were laid. Next they hatched and for almost 3 weeks we enjoyed hearing the babies chirp and watch the parents fly back and forth feeding. We even could see the beaks of the babies as they waited for their parents. We couldn't wait for the flying lessons. Well, Tuesday afternoon we noticed there were no birds chirping and no parents flying back and forth. Checked closely outside and found a clump of feathers. We can only surmise that a stray cat got the mom....however there is no sign of the father bird OR the babies. When we finally checked the box it was empty (except the nest). Any ideas on what might ahve happened? Could the father have moved the babies away....or can we assume the worse? This loss was so devestating as it was to be our first blue bird family. Last year we had blue bird and their babies visit our bird bath, but these were to be the ones raised in our bird house, in our yard. Any ideas/suggestions are certainly appreciated. Marcia Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 20:01:43 -0400 ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- Dear Marcia: I am sorry you feel your nestlings may have been harmed; however, you did not tell us the age of the nestlings - if you could see their beaks when feeding, they were obviously standing & ready to fledge. What was their age the last time you checked inside the box? Could you tell from the feathers on the ground if they were adult or fledgling feathers? It is possible they had all fledged except the last one may have been caught by a predator. I would not presume you have lost your nestlings as the nest appeared undisturbed - a snake would not have left feathers and raccoon would have ruined nest. Rest easy, the majority of your little Bluebird family is probably safe in the woods or nearby trees under the protection of one or both parents. Please let us know if and when you see them. Betty Nichols, Middletown, MD We were so excited this spring when we had blue birds make a nest in our Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 20:34:14 -0400 Elizabeth- thanks for the speedy response.......the feathers on the ground were definitely adult-probably female. I checked the woods around my house as well asthe yard and no sign of babies-dead or alive. The nest is still in one piece. The babies hatched about 2 1/2 weeks ago (I THINK-my work schedule has been demanding and I am relying on memory for this. But the babies were standing and their eyes wide open Sunday when they were peering out of the box.) You have at least given me hope that they are alive somewhere. I will keep my eyes open for them. Last summer we had two families of blue birds who enjoyed "swimming" in the bird bath and I looked forward to another summer of the same. I will keep ypu posted as to sightings is/when they occur. Again thanks for the response and the raising of my hopes. Marcia Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 20:57:15 -0500 Hi - There is a wildlife rehab not far from here, who said they will take the baby on Tuesday and gave me instructions on what to do until then. Do I remove the baby? Is there any chance the parents will still come back? If only I could let them know they have a baby! Nancy Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 21:35:22 -0500 If this baby bird was found in the nest then there should be two half shells of an egg still in there with it if the baby is abandoned. If the shells are gone then the adult, probably the female will have removed them. Check this out before doing anything and get back to the list. Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 21:55:39 -0500 I found one of four eggs hatched this afternoon. The mom has been gone since Wednesday and dad since Friday ( today is Sunday). I removed the two halves of shell this evening, after monitoring the house all day. I knew the parents usually do that so the baby won't get hurt. Nancy Keith & Sandy Kridler wrote: If this baby bird was found in the nest then there should be two half shells Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 10:28:15 EDT I have a nest of 5 bluebird babies who were suppose to fledge within the last 2 days, but I presume because weather is cold and damp, they did not leave at the typical time. I had been supplimenting the parents with mealworms for the last 3 weeks. When I went to feed them last night, they were no where in sight. This morning, I saw the meal worms still in the pan outside, and placed some fresh ones in it. Typically, the parents would be in sight within minutes. But they were not there. I peeked around the nest box but could not see in (I have a gilbertson box). I watched to see if parents were coming to eat worms, watched for an hour, no parents. I then checked the nest for babies and found 3. I took the nestbox and placed it in an old bird cage and brought the birds in for some warmth. One seems quite healthy, but I haven't seen the other 2 well because they are still in the nest. I tried to feed the one baby with a tweezers with mealworm, but he was too frightened to eat. Is there any method or other food that I can offer? Now, does anyone have any instruction on what to do next? They appear to be fully feathered, but with no parents to train them and weather so bad, I do not want to leave them outside. I live in Wisconsin and it is only 47 degrees right now. I am willing to feed them and do whatever they need until they are ready to leave. Please send answers to my private address: Samboy4340"at"aol.com, as I get the digest list, and would have to wait too long to get that mail. Thanks in advance, P.S. I cannot imagine what happened to the parents and other 2 babies. Has anyone had problems with "bad" mealworms?? There were a few live worms in the nestbox with the babies.
Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 09:54:29 -0500 Keith Kridler Mt. Pleasant, Texas I would return the young back to the box and partially block the entrance hole to prevent them to fledge until you can determine if the young are abandoned! Just because they are not feeding mealworms does not mean they have not found another easy source of food. After the young are back in the box then wait an hour or so and watch closely. Did you get up at dawn to watch the nest! Adults will often stuff the young early and not feed until mid morning or even till noon. They maybe busy with the two that might have fledged. After an hour or so you should be able to feed the young through the entrance hole as they will come to the hole at a sharp whistle or squeak. By only letting them see your fingers and a meal worm they should be able to be fed without them being afraid of you and recognizing you as "different." If you keep them you are in for at LEAST a month of teaching them how to feed and take care of themselves as probably at least two months would be required to train them AFTER they learn how to fly. Baby birds cannot just be turned loose after they learn how to fly. At this age they can keep themselves warm in weather in the 40 degree range. They should be warm by now and returned to the nest ASAP. They will not starve today and if no parents arrive line up a rehabilitator and we will deal with force feeding if this becomes necessary. KK
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 08:02:49 -0700 Linda Violett - Yorba Linda, Calif. This is being sent quickly (forgive any typos). I'd put the nestbox (and babies) back where they were in case the parents have taken the two fledged babies to hiding nearby and are coming back for the other two. Keep a close watch. I find that almost-fledged birds will give out a "broken-record" cheeping. Strong the first 1/2 day of constant cheeping (leave alone) to a weaker version of constant cheeping (rescue needed). Please put back the box/babies, watch, listen. SAMBOY4340"at"aol.com wrote: I have a nest of 5 bluebird babies who were suppose to fledge within ... Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 11:34:58 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA Dear Samboy, I agree with Violett and KK, take the babies back outside to nest...... The birds are less predictable to what WE imagine when they are fledging. They have their own rhythms and rhymes and while they may have abandoned, I think it is way too early to tell. I don't believe there is such a thing as bad mealworms. They turn dark brown when they are dead/dying. Since the 3 babies look ok I believe you have all of today at least before you'd have to take action. And PS, once you put them back in the nest they might try to premature-fledge, so stuff the hole with a cloth for a while or put up a block as KK suggests. Often times the babies don't fledge all at once, and so this could be the case! Keep us posted!!! They'll be lots of folks on line to day to help with your questions. :-) H
Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 11:45:50 EDT Thank you so much for your prompt responses. I watched outside and finally noticed the mother eating some mealworms. I promptly returned the nest box with the 3 babies, and watched, and sure enough, daddy returned and they both fed the babies. So, all is well, thanks for your help. Next time i will watch longer before I interveine. Thanks, Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 10:26:21 -0700 (PDT) Hello...Here is a question I'm wondering about & would appreciate some credible feedback. Suppose a EABL nest in a box has all of its eggs pricked (final egg in clutch included) say by a HOWR (not a House Sparrow) & removed by the HOWR to the ground ... or in another situation..let's say entire clutch of eggs was taken by a snake, but parents are ok. Let's say Mother was lucky enough not to be in the box at the time. So now we have an empty pretty well an unused nest. Also, let's say there are other Bluebirds around. What I'm wondering about..should one remove this almost perfectly new & intact nest or will other Bluebirds in the vicinity maybe try to use this nest for their clutch of eggs? Or will they probably try to build a little over the previous almost new EABL nest? Any thoughts? .....Horace in NC. =====
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 14:02:51 -0400 (EDT) HI Horace, I think its best to remove the nest. Any new Bluebird will probably add more nesting material ant way. These kind tend to end up much to high near the entrance hole. During these same circumstances the same pair may make another attempt in this same box even after a disaster. In the mean time you have time to figure out a method of prevention for what happened to begin with. Joe Huber venice, Fl. Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 12:17:33 -0700 (PDT) Horace, Last year I had a pair of Eastern Bluebirds (EABL) build a nest and started laying their eggs, after the second egg a ?predator? came in and started to remove the eggs. I found the first two eggs on the ground broken and for the following two days I would find a broken egg on the ground below the nest. Day five the EABL went to another nest box on the other side of the yard and started another nest. Finally the pair had 4 babies fledge successfully. The first nest was virtually perfect, clean, intact and unused. I removed the nest because if another EABL pair wanted to use the nest box I didn't think they would take a box that looked like it already had an active nest in it. I figured they would look in the box see the nest and move on...??? Isn't this what they would do??? Kerry in NE Corner of Okla. --- Horace Sher hjsher1"at"yahoo.com wrote: Hello...Here is a question I'm wondering about & ...
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 21:56:54 -0700 (PDT) Hi Kerry..Thank you for your reply which is interesting, but I'm thinking
about something you said. That EABL laid 4 eggs which were destroyed. Then you
said she went to the 2nd box on other side of your yard & laid 4 more eggs which
subsequently became the 4 successful fledglings..right? So you would be saying
she laid a total of 8 eggs..or did she lay those 2nd clutch of 4 eggs much later
in the season, maybe during the 3rd clutch time frame(mid to late ************************************************** --- Kerry Sweet ksweet3450"at"yahoo.com wrote: ... ===== Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 14:39:46 -0500 I have watched a lovely pair of Eastern Bluebirds raise 5 beautiful babies. I feel so much a part of it because this is the first time I have monitored the process and have helped with providing mealworms. The weather has been extremely cold and rainy for the past 2 weeks & I was extremely worried about how the weather & the low numbers of insects would affect the babies. I had been feeding mealworms since before the eggs were laid with the adults eventually becoming regulars at the feeder in the yard. The young fledged approx. 4 days ago. The parents brought them up to the trees near the house and have been diligently feeding them the mealworms. Today the weather has cleared some & it's reached 60. There has been absolutely no sign of either parent today AT ALL! I have seen 4 of the babies flying around the trees near the house. I set out the mealworms first thing this morning - but no activity. I can't believe that even though the weather is better & more insects are active the BB would ignore the mealworms that they have craved for the past several weeks. I checked their nestbox to see if they were concentrating on their second nesting, but there is no sign of activity there either. I am afraid that they are gone - we do have Coopers hawks in our woods. What are the chances that they are still around? They wouldn't just desert the babies, would they? I am worried about the babies. Can they survive on their own at this young age, 3-4days? Is there anything I can do to help their odds? I've taken the roof and glass sides off the mealworm feeder, but more rain is predicted. I need help. Sally Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 20:55:09 EDT Hi Sally, Don't panic yet. I think it is unlikely that something could have happened to BOTH parents so quickly. If something did happen to one of the parents the other is perfectly capable of looking after the fledglings on its own. They almost certainly wouldn't desert the babies at such a young age. It is possible that if the weather is warmer they have been feeding insects instead of mealworms and you just haven't seen them because they are so busy - also they could be starting another nest in a box somewhere else. Were the babies calling a lot? I would think if they were hungry they would be calling. Watch and see what happens tomorrow. In any case apart from what you are doing by providing mealworms and making them more accessible I don't see what else you can do. I don't know if such young fledglings can be encouraged to come down for the mealworms themselves. They are probably not old enough to survive on their own. If you still think there is no parent around tomorrow write again and maybe someone will have a suggestion. BUT I think it is most likely there is a parent around somewhere. Keep us posted In a Message dated 6/6/01 3:50:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, The young fledged approx. 4 days ago. ... I need help. Sally Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 21:39:34 -0400 (EDT) Hi Sally and all, It is normal for the Bluebirds to be away from their nesting place with the young. I never fed Bluebirds during nesting time and they turned out fine. They don't need the meal worms right now or else they would be after them. I don't think a hawk got your Bluebirds since you see the young ones flying in trees. If a hawk got any it is most likely it would be a young one that is easier to catch. I'll bet they show up in a few more days at a nest box. There isn't anything we can do for them after they leave the nest. Let nature take its course at this time. Joe Huber Venice, Fl. Charter member NABS, Charter member OBS, Life member OBS Joe Huber http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/HOUSESPARROWCONTROL http://community.webtv.net/hubertrap/RoostingBluebirds Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 09:21:26 -0700 Hi Horace: Just wanted to let you know my experience. This year I had a clutch of 3 eggs destroyed. Had same question as you, to leave nest or remove. I put up another box so I decided to leave the nest and see what happened. After 2 weeks the same EABL pair laid another clutch of eggs in the same nest. So far all is going well. I almost gave up and removed the nest, but I am glad I didn't. Hope this input helps. Pam in Md Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 15:06:19 -0400 Bluebirds abandoned their babies after one day old. We had bad storms and it got very cold one night (Bethel Connecticut). I looked in the nest the next day to see and there were five "very Cold Babies". There was no action at the box for 24 hours. I took the birds and the nest out after the cold night and thought they were dead, no movement at all until i set the nest and birds down in the sun and they started to move, put the nest and birds back in their house and saw no activity. Called a rehabber and fortunately a couple have survived. Why would they desert it. It seems they are in the back field having more kids???What's going on??? Could the cold weather have thrown them off or the smell in the box????
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 17:04:45 -0500 Hi, I have lost two broods the day after bad storms here in Ontario this year, The first lot had started to grow their final feathers, the other brood were just a few days old.. I've never had problems with this before. Parents are now on attempt #3 and sitting on 5 eggs. Hope your pair will keep trying too. Norrie ON
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 14:13:16 EDT Hi Everyone, We need your advice. Our Eastern bluebird pair, after successfully fledging four on July 12th, waited ten or so days but decided to nest again around the 23rd of July. She laid four eggs and started brooding on July 31st. All was well with the box and nest, and she had a peaceful brood. The nestbox they are using has shade for most of the day. We only saw the male bluebird once after the brooding started, which worried us, but our neighbor, LauraS, of the Bluebird-L, reassured us that he was probably busy with the fledglings. After two weeks, we checked the box daily for hatchlings, but none of the eggs has ever hatched. Up until today, the eggs were always warm when we opened the box, and they look fine (no cracks or problems). Mrs. Bluebird was around some of the time, but there was very little guarding of the nestbox, by either bluebird, at any time during this nesting. She continued to brood until today. We just checked the box and the eggs are cool to the touch. Still beautiful, healthy looking eggs, but no hatchlings. Do any of you have any theories as to what could have happened? Is it unprecedented to have four "dud" eggs? Could the male not have fertilized the eggs? We don't think there are any poisons in the area, such as Chemlawn use or agricultural insecticides. We live near abundant insect sources. The birds would not take mealworm supplemental offerings. Any advice or comfort you could give us will be appreciated! Also, what should we do with the eggs? Is it possible to keep them somehow? Thank you, Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 15:26:07 -0400 Hi Donna/Alex D. H. Snook/Sondra R. Snook ----- Original Message ----- ... Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 17:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Donna and Alex, We also had several clutches that were not incubated. There are several explainations---but to my thinking the best would be that one or both bluebirds recognized the shortening daylight hours and felt the time pressure to raise a brood and decided against it---what do others think? --- Afinechef"at"aol.com wrote: ... ===== Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 21:12:12 -0700 Donna, Alex, all I can sympathize with your situation. It is very frustrating. This year we have had a pair nest in a box 20ft from our house and lay 2 clutches of 6 eggs each, none of which hatched (2nd nest built drectly on top of first set of eggs). Both sets of eggs were incubated for almost 4 weeks before they were finally abandoned, reluctantly by the female (the male seemed to know after about 2 weeks that something was wrong as he started trying to encourage her to build another nest elsewhere at this time). You can imagine our disappointment, and assumption that one of the pair was infertile. Finally the pair moved to another box in our yard and laid 5 more eggs. Much to our surprise all 5 of these eggs did hatch on 8/5! The young seem to be doing well now (day 16), though we have not checked in since day 12. The male seems to be enticing them to fledge by flying to the entrance with food and then immediately returning to a nearby tree and singing with the food still in his mouth! Seems very late in the season to me, but it goes to shows their persistence and devotion to the cause. But still can't explain why 2 earlier clutches didn't hatch. Not much you can do I suppose except feel lucky to have had one successful brood. Best wishes, ----- Original Message ----- ... Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 21:24:20 -0400 I have four Bluebird eggs I do not think are going hatch. Some times do will happen at the end of the year. Maynard Sumner Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. ----- Original Message ----- ... Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:48:34 -0400 Live in Connecticut Bluebirds had babies early in July and after they were hatched they were abandoned. I noticed no feeding nor anyone around. Looked in the box they were so cold and thought they were gone then one started moving with the warmth of my hand ,i put them back in box for a couple of hours to make sure no one came by. They did not, so brought them to a rehabber. 2 survived and are doing well, 3 died. Why would they abandon them??? There was a bad storm and a cold front kicked in?? Seems strange to me and have found no good answers... Very upsetting but at least 2 made it!!! Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:03:26 -0500 Hello all, I hesitate to give advise as I am so new to the list, but I will at least comment. I had 4 (5????) baby EABL's hatch on July 29, (I am near Green Bay, WI Zone 5) but they were laid in mid July. They were doing beautifully and I watched closely as the list has recommended! I peeked on Day 12 and though there were 5 eggs, I could never count more than 4 babies. The adults were till flying in and out of the nest on day 19 when I left for the weekend. We returned day 21 and of course all was quiet. I finally peeked the next day, and the nest was totally empty and flattened. I saw both parents getting insects, fly to the top of nestboxes, appear to pound the insect, worm, whatever, on top of the box, and then fly to the edge of the field into the tree line. This is the second nest I am observing close at hand in my yard. I remember seeing the other pair with fledglings all over, seemingly very brave, and not afraid to be seen. I can't remember if they had disappeared for a while before I had seen them. (Yes, I am now keeping records faithfully for next year). Will I see this second group return from the trees? Do different pairs have different personalities (i.e. secretive and shy, brave and outgoing?. It has been great fun, and I look forward to next year. Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:27:10 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA Dear Melinda - you did the absolute right thing by getting them to a rehhaber when you did. We should always make absolute sure no parents are around. In your case, Melinda, we'll never know what happened to the parents, but here are some ideas: 1) You don't mention how old the babies were when abandoned. If they were
under say 6 days old, and the mother was killed, they wouldn't have been able to
have been brooded at night and so you would find them cold and half dead in the
morning -especially depending on weather conditions. In this case, the father
might have then abandoned. It takes an AWFUL lot for parents to actually abandon a nest especially with babies - even when one parent dies the other will often stick on - but again, if the mom was brooding and died, that is most often an insurmountable problem for the male -he might have thought they were dead and then eventually took off. Did you see him later in the day??? Others will have more ideas. Keep the faith and next year you'll have a happier ending! And know that with your wise thinking you saved two of the babies! :-) H MJ wrote: Live in Connecticut ... Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:40:41 -0400 Haleya Priest Amherst MA Jeanne Mease wrote: Hello all, ... Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:46:27 -0700 Dear Melinda and friends, From time to time Bluebirding does pull on our heart strings, and your post is touching. Most of us on Bluebird L have had losses of some sort or another and I wish to express my understanding of the situation that you went through. Remember natures golden rule is survival of the fittest so the specie will survive. With "a bad storm and a cold front" kicking in and the lateness of the season, this could have been the deciding factor for your BBs to vacate thus leaving the baby BBs to their fate. Napoleon once said, "The only enemy I fear is nature." Lets just say that your BBs have more sense than Napoleon did by beating a hasty retreat form old man winter, rather than sticking around (like Napoleon's terrible 1812 winter retreat from Russia) to risk their lives over their baby BBs that they could replace in the 2002 nesting season. If you think of it in those terms I'd say that your BBs are pretty good tacticians wouldn't you agree? Though we provide a safe nesting box and a occasional helping hand, nature still rules the roost with a cold iron fist. Wishing you all the best and as always... Happy Bluebird Trails To You, MJ wrote: Live in Connecticut ... Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 23:48:09 +0000 We have all three bluebirds species almost all winter. Some time the Western's leave for a few week but the Eastern and Mountain are seen every week of the year in just a small area. The Mountains on the trail 15 miles south West of this site leave after the first frost in October. I think that we some times think we know what the bluebirds should do not what they KNOW that they should by nature. If I have (in my experience) a fault with the list it would be that many people try to micro-manage THEIR bluebirds. You all know that we are just stewards of them not there parents. I feel that it is just best to let nature take it course. I would never remove young from the nest to raise if I thought their parents left. If they fledge too early I would put the back once then it is up to them to survive. There are just my thoughts if other differ that is ok with me. I have almost 200 box now and that may affect my thinking. Bob Wilson Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 16:52:34 EDT In Ohio, one very dry hot summer (I think it was '88) in a box located where hot air from a black top road blew on it, one female laid 16 eggs before she got one to hatch. That baby was so pampered and well fed and got so big I doubted he would ever get out the hole to fledge. But he did. I took dehydration of the eggs due to drought and heat to be the reason for the infertility. Bill Davis From: "College Town" collegetown"at"I-55.com Hi. The end of last week there were 2 blue birds in my yard. They began making a nest inside a birdhouse I have. I watched them for several days bringing in materials to make the nest. Sunday evening they were gone and I have not seem them since. I think I had read somewhere that bluebirds will some times leave for several days during the nest making time. Is this true? Are should I empty the bird house since it will be a week Sunday since I have seen them? Thanks for any help you can give. Kim Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:09:04 -0400 Dear Kim, College Town wrote: Hi. The end of last week there were 2 blue birds in my yard. They ... Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:54:05 -0500 At 11:46 AM 4/9/02 -0500, you wrote: There are six active nests on my trail and two others that started I remove the unused nest if there is still no change after 2-3 weeks. I often find that a new nest is started within a day or two after I clean out the old unused nest--my birds are waiting for a clean nestbox, or perhaps it looks unclaimed to them. Kate Oschwald From: Greg Jenkins GJenkins"at"NASHOLD.COM Hello, I have 5 abandoned bluebird eggs in my box. Either they got tired of the problem cat, or me putting that stupid hole extender over the box(which I took down after an hour and never put it back up) or the combination of it all. Or, God forbid, the problem cat got them. I have shot at him two mornings in a row now with a bb gun, and he always comes creeping around 6-6:30 a.m. I have not seen either blue bird since Monday night, and the tell tell sign is the worms are not being eaten. Is there anything I can do? Greg Jenkins From: "Fawzi P. Emad femad <at> fpemad <dot> com Greg, in my yard, the Bluebirds are not eating mealworms at this time, and there are eggs in several boxes. This is normal and very good: it means the birds are finding plenty to eat on their own. Also, they may still come back to care for the eggs. Check to make sure the box is free from wasps and hives (look everywhere inside the box, especially under the roof.) The best way to prevent cats from reaching the box is the Ron Kingston
predator guard. This is made from 8" stovepipe. Plans are found on: http://audubon-omaha.org/bbbox/nabs/rk1.htm Fawzi Fawzi Emad in Laytonsville, Maryland ----- Original Message ----- ... Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 12:06:02 -0400 Hello Everyone, I recently joined this list and thought it might be a good time to introduce myself.I live in SW Michigan and managed somehow to attract a pair of Blues for the first time just three years ago. I really didn't believe I could attract or keep bluebirds here because of all the trees. I have very little open space and although I had a couple of nest boxes out, my main interest was in attracting and keeping a colony of bats. One spring day three years ago, I noticed a pair of bluebirds checking out an old house mounted on a tall pole that supports a pair of bat houses. It was a rickety old bird house, and wanting to maximize my chances of attrracting the birds to the neighborhood, I immediately mounted a better box on a 6 foot post and placed it about 20 feet farther down the lakeshore, next to a fence line. I barely had my shovel put away before the couple was excitedly (Ilike to think) checking out this new opportunity. It met their approval, they moved in, and we had our first Bluebird experience. Of course, we were hooked. Last year, our second, everything started out normally with seven eggs. We soon noticed that although we saw both parents on a regular basis, it seemed that the female was spending very little, if any, time incubating the eggs. Time went by, the eggs didn't hatch, and they began building a new nest over the old. Seven eggs later, we again eagerly anticipated a new family. The same thing happened as before. The eggs didn't hatch, and they rebuilt. The third nest also failed, again with seven eggs. We are at a loss to explain what happened. We never saw any predators that would keep mom off the nest. There are lots of sqirrels in the area but they seem oblivious to the comings and goings of the birds. We're on the edge of a woods and I know there are racoons, possums, etc. around, but again, with careful and regular observation, we never saw any predator activity near the nest and there was never a sign of disturbance to the nest or any of the eggs. The only thing we can think of that might be out of the norm would be the lack of incubation. There are so far three eggs in the nest this spring. I go out every other day
to open the box for a peek. My two-minute checks every other day are they only
disturbance to the nest and I have yet to see the female exit on my approach.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Great list, BTW. I'm glad I found you! Regards to all, -- From: "Mary Beth Roen" mbroen"at"hotmail.com Larry, It is possible that your Bluebird pair is producing infertile eggs. There have been other listers that have had some problems of this kind. This would explain why several nests of eggs failed to hatch. After a certain length of time incubating, the female must have realized that they weren't going to hatch and started over. I suppose another possibility is that you actually had two pairs of Bluebirds competing for the same nest box and intimidated each other into abandoning the nest, and then the new pair built over the top of the old nest. Mary Roen, River Falls, WI From: "Larry J. VanZalen" lvanzalen"at"mei.net ... Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:09:33 -0500 At 12:06 PM 4/21/02 -0400, Larry J. VanZalen wrote: ... One possibility is that one of the pair is infertile. The female may eventually realize that something is wrong, and starts the egg-laying process again. Unless the eggs got extremely chilled, the female being of the nest sometimes shouldn't have caused this--she leaves for food after all. If she is off the nest a little too much, it has been known to delay hatching by a day or two, but ordinarily shouldn't cause a problem with an entire clutch. At our Texas Bluebird Society Spring Event this last weekend, one of the questions involved unhatched eggs, and in one case the removal of them by the female. She had laid two eggs before some really cold weather, waited a few days when the weather returned to normal and laid two more eggs. The monitor noticed one day that the female had shoved two eggs up out of the nest cup. He marked them and placed them back in the nest, but she eventually removed them entirely. We decided she "knows" somehow that the egg is not developing. There may be some kind of "movement" that she senses, or perhaps all that cellular activity going on inside gives off energy or warmth that she senses. In your case, the lack of this activity may be sensed by the female. The time spent on the nest varies. I have a nestbox near my barn that is occupied every year. When I monitored during incubation or brooding in previous years, the female was always on the nest and left as I approached. (I talk to them to warn them I'm coming and tap on the box before opening, to give them a chance to leave without being startled.) This year it must be a different female who leaves well before I approach, since I have never caught her on the nest or exiting the box. Her five eggs hatched, but hatching was a few days later than I expected, so she either didn't start incubating right away or stays off the nest more than I'm used to. If these eggs are infertile, once you are absolutely sure they are abandoned (a nest on top of them would count as "abandoned" in my opinion) you could open one of them. An infertile egg would not have any kind of developing chick inside, but look like the eggs we eat--a lot smaller, obviously! Kate Oschwald From: SuzyFrames"at"aol.com We have had blue bird boxes up for several years. They would come by briefly
to look but move elsewhere. :( We have had many titmouse families, though. This
year, to our delight, a pair of bluebirds came by built a very nice nest and had
5 eggs inside. However, it's been a week and I haven't seen either bird around.
While one was in the nest, the other would be on the privacy fence or up in a
nearby tree. I wonder what could have happened to them and how long I should
leave the nest there or should I take it out. It makes me so sad because I was
really excited about having them in our yard. Today, I noticed (and heard) a
woodpecker pecking on the outside of the box. From: "Patsy" pastysharp"at"ev1.net The bb babies are gone. I didn't see them leave. The nest seems to be undisturbed. No sign of eggshells. Will the bbs raise another family, or will they leave? Need to know whether to put their house away now or wait until later. Should I remove the nest? To: bluebird-l"at"cornell.edu (BLUEBIRD-L) On Fri, 3 May 2002 20:34:50 -0700 "Patsy" pastysharp"at"ev1.net writes: ... Yes, the Bluebird will raise another family. Yes, remove the nest. The bluebird will make a new nest. Maynard Sumner From: "emcooper" emcooper"at"bayou.com Were the babies old enough to fledge or do you think a predator got them? Leave the nestbox in place and take the nest out. I like to clean the inside of the box with a mild Clorox solution. You did not say where you are from, but most all of us have at least two nesting cycles. I always have three. I am in Louisiana. You said no sign of egg shells, I am wondering what you meant by this. This can be very upsetting if you are not sure they fledged, but I think your bluebirds will come back and build again. Evelyn Cooper Delhi, La. From: hubertrap"at"webtv.net (Joe Huber) Hi Patsy and all; How long ago did eggs hatch? When did you last look in box?
It's not unusual for birds to leave nest and not be seen. The nest should
be flattened out from babies using it for 14 days. If not flattened out something
may have gotten them. In either case you can clean out the old Nest abandonment (Part 3) |
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